I want you to kow were still here oppose holocaust memoir. Shes the former executive director of historic in washington dc. In a debate, remarkable journey to find family that her father during the war, learn about siblings she never met. That heal the wounds of her past river joint tonight by esther and her son. Award winning novelist for an author of everything is extremely loud in here a. M. As well as the claimed nonfiction work and we are here. Everything is illuminated was inspired by attorney in ukraine to find a family that was hesters father. Her success in novel awakened. Armed with a tattered akamai photo and handdrawn map, after finally made the trip to you by herself. And found more than she ever hope she would. Were honored to have both esther and jonathan with us tonight. This will be the first public dialogue about the book. Very exciting indeed. A few quick things to note, todays conversation will follow with an audience q a. You can cement your questions into the chat box it will do our best to very best to get to as many questions as we can. The bear with us because we have hundreds of euros tonight and very many questions to get through. This program is being recorded life will be available for viewing on youtube. The video link will go on to all of tonights renters stents in the coming states to make sure to look out for it. And finally you enjoyed todays program, please consider making a donation to museum of jewish heritage or joining us as a member. Where institution dedicated to preserving the stories like those of this one friend and your support is crucial for us to continue our programs like this one. So thank you so much. And now without further ado, please joining me and giving a virtual welcome to esther and jonathan pretty. Thank you. The First Reading i ever did as a writer was museum of jewish heritage. This was in the very beginning of 2002. As before my first book. Jonathan everything was eliminated had come out. Anyway it was a low point for me as a public speaker because at the most embarrassing moment i ever had as a public speaker which is and tended to use the word repertoire. I get very nervous and is coming out of my mouth, i started to doubt myself. Death pronunciation. A simple repertoire, like that. It continues to haunt me every time im about to do a public event. I have to admit im a little bit nervous to do this. Me to print. Pete. Jonathan unite have had wo knows how many conversations and in the four decades that we have known each other yet ive been sort of stressing about this for the last couple of days. I know that in part its because i care a lot about it and want to show everybody how great your book kids. When think there is probably Something Else going on as well which is the subjects are very hard to talk about. The very hard to talk about directly. Jewish people, are known for talking a lot. But in my experience, both in terms of how i grew up in terms of what you told me, but how you grew up in the Jewish Community that i know. My experience is that people often have a very hard time talking about difficult things about said things. To find that to be the case as well. Esther oh my gosh, it is always been the case. I spent most of the early part of my life not being able to talk about any of this. I dont know, clean known me really well at least the last four decades. Upbeat happy person to handle these ghosts that are with me all of the time. Even at my happiest moments. And of course going akamai could not talk about this. And this amazing mother but gone through this worst thing that anybody can imagine. Losing her entire family. And i dont understand, i thought i was supposed to give her joy. On as most of us to bring it was supposed to answer those hard questions that would make her sad. And she wouldnt tell me the stories. I was child labor to get to the stories within project into high school, encouraged him to interview her. Did the things that i cannot do. I get from her the stories that i think she wouldnt give me. And he did a pretty great job of putting the framework of our history together. And then of course, when we wanted to spend a summer having fun, and senior project to do, i suggested we go to ukraine to find these people. My father, your grandfather. In many ways, and both you and frank doing what i cannot do that point. Somehow i didnt have, couldnt asked those questions. I can talk about these things to you guys. Do you father. He was all in their. I did not have the emotional wherewithal to undertake the journey you guys took for me first. Jonathan should be noted that you encourage me to go seek this family history. You also told me not to tell grandma that i was doing it. Who will get to that in a little bit. Ms. Like larry communication and whats okay to say to this person or not that person. In all of the problems that can entail. But just to take a step back because we never really introduced you. Were here to talk about your book. I want you to know werestill. I was thinking about a way to summarize it. Not as a literary critic which im not anyway. That is myself and what i thought was our family tree like sheet music. And play them. So the central story the book tells simultaneously in the past. In the present and also in the future. You tell the journey that youre going to look, to learn about your parents. And particularly your father who committed suicide when you were seven. Speech of seven rate deepening on which birthday you count. Jonathan i think its distinguished from a memoir, or from a work of history which is that it transcends the story that it is telling. And it becomes about the telling itself. In engaging in questions of how we talk about where we come from. How we talk about painful things. And how we talk about who we are. And how about talking will determined who we become. Its a really wonderful book. Its not uncomplicated for me to say that because a child is always a child. No matter how old you get. Ive always been used to thinking of that i was a story that you were telling with your life. And then confronting all of your other stories. If your parents story, your struggles, your hopes, is something that is frankly a little bit scary that i was really grateful to have. Cannot hundreds in this book, i dont know that i ever would have seen you in quite that way as an individual in the world. Lets start at the beginning of your process. Theres no joke, that once upon a time there is persons life they were so good to come theres no story to tell about it. So there is some really profound problems. And they are heart of your book. The holocaust, is most obvious one. The murder of your halfsister. Suicide of your father. The recent death of her mother. Secrecy the tone and those losses in the holes in your life story. To feel there was something in particular that you wanted to solve or to resolve by telling your story. Esther i think when we talked about the holes. That is really an accurate way to describe it. After you wrote everything that illuminated the thought well, you helped me fill the hole in my life. Even though as a work of fiction. Somehow, it seemed to fill the holes for a while. Then i realized that wasnt enough. What was, i dont know. Number 70 holes. In summary holes that i could not tell people about. The writing of the book became really profound experience not just for the journeys. The journey was amazing. He found things that i never expected that would fine. The process of sitting down and writing. In the art of the story never changed. I had written and outlined in the arch was there. The getting into the emotion of the story, and im getting into it now. That took time. One thing really interesting for me is your grandmother, my mother died december 18th, 2018. I know my book was due in february. So i really make sure that i had it done. Because i didnt know how long she would live. And when the situation would be. But after she died, i went back to look at it and i found that i was able to, i did not change the story but i was able to put details and emotions into it. And it couldnt while she was alive. It may sound strange. Shes almost 99 years old. Shes not even getting up out of her bed. Some writing this book and shes upstairs. And mine was good until the end. So we really didnt talk about the book. She knew i was writing. She and asked me a lot of questions but i think she knew what i was writing about. It wasnt until she died somehow was able to let go of things. And that i was able to put words to feelings. But i wasnt able to do while she was still alive. Maybe because i feel like she was on always hear me these were the story she didnt want to talk about. Jonathan to return to what we were talking about in the beginning that when i went to the ukraine, and it was really entirely your idea that i do that. It was a great idea. Its not one that wouldve had at the time. But i do remember. Esther look what came out of it. It. Jonathan what came out of it was a response to what was not there rather than what was there. And i think that is the real difference between my book and yours. I do not know how to look. I maybe was too young to look. And there was so much secrecy about this journey from grandma that my Research Expedition was really like a two day jaunt around the crane. Theres no hope that is going to find anything so i can imagine where you maybe you can tell a little bit about what youre researching is like. Esther it was because, well whats really unusual about the story about jonathan and me, is this work pretty when she didnt know much. I didnt know much. I couldnt give him a lot of guidance. We couldnt tell a primitive that he was going. There are precious grandson is going to ukraine. One of the worst things in the world happened to her and the family. So i didnt know what to tell you. But it was when you wrote that book and i guess thats when i thought that you were hoping for me fill my holes. That people started to call me. The first people with you. And you would say soandso called me around estimate corner notes. They have information. But i am moving on. And at first, i wasnt ready to pursue that. Slowly i would pick up some of these pieces of paper and make a call to when we travel. I would meet people. Marshall due to your book. Went to the israeli literary festival. If you looking there. And they started to tell me stories. For salt people work outraged about your book. I want to tell you thats right now. People thought how could he have done that and how could he told the these crazy stories. Everything else about a beautiful shuttle. So theres the first things are is getting. I didnt want to return those calls include then people started to say, but i do know the real story. These trips, it wasnt like it was a systematic thing that i went on a trip and a people i was going to see. Mckenna seized every opportunity while i was there. For example in brazil, my mother suggested i meet this, who owned one of the big jewelry chains in brazil. I thought and want to bother with this. I went into one of the stores i said, allegedly monotony but immediately nascent and of who you are. Im to send a card to pick you up. It turns out, have begun on his brother, both have photographic memories and they also love the same town as my father. The cousin married my mothers sister. No partners with his after the war. And they were able to give me more information. Again we had an address of the store they had. Supposedly leica bar what is really money changing. These refugees were quickly changing currencies from one country to another. Making the exchange that was a real business. And when i went to israel limit these brothers i said, joined meet other people who made her come home the village, have known your family. I said sure. I was babysitting and he was maybe a yearold and was the night before was going to leave and i said and i get off of the babysitting pretty and symbiotic course. Ninetyfive yearold man, theres no point in waiting for the next trip. Jonathan but i never brought on another trip again. [laughter]. Esther selected mall over israel. And we would meet with one person after another. It was like an onion. Every layer had something new. A new piece of information. I met with a 95 yearold man. Trophy guy. He insisted, before we left the both of us kiss them goodbye. And he said up wanted to know if you knew my father. I was using his name. Lewis, saccharin. That was not the way the people referred to them. And nicknames. Crazy nicknames. Descriptive and nicknames pretty in the book, some of them down. Not even all of them. But it turned out my fathers nickname, event level my father was actually living another little village. That became a breakthrough he told me thats rated lofgren he and i definitely sent you to the wrong place hundred journey. Then we started making phone calls in sick do you know a thing end of that day, i met a woman in my father before the war. Is grateful to tell me stories about him. They were so precious to me i never heard that before. Then she asked me to go back and stay with her for a week and i never did it. Jimmy more information. She told me my father had another child. There are so many babies that were killed. Nessa story. There are so many People Killed is names we dont know. I scoured all of the databases try to find my halfsister and i could not find anything. I went back to dc and was armed with all of this new information and i started going through those phone calls and i hired simeon ukraine would work with some friends of mine who knew the sky. And asked her to do that event in advance trip. I sent the picture of my father your grandpa and his family that supposedly hit him. And she went to the villages name and now have because of that wonderful five yearold man. By the way side story, with this many looks many says, you know i was married to your fathers cousin but nobody knows. So heres a guy 95 years old, telling a total stranger the story that he has not told his children. And there so many holocaust stories like that. And they just somehow buried past if they could. Anyway so i harden this young woman. She went to the village almost immediately, she said oh thats label and thats, and he was hiding in this house. And she said one of his grandchildren still lives in the village. In this young woman, her name was anna. When you read the poughkeepsie and most of the women met a new friend, its anna. Most of the men brightened and really got confusing. This anna, anna quest my translator and the old woman was trenton translator was in the parade so young anna to the house and she met the grandson of who we are told in a minute later. A lovely guy. But unfortunately when 90 is totally stone drunk. She went in, she asked him questions. And he handle anything but she took pictures of the wall. She was convinced that she had made a batch. And i looked at the pictures. I thought maybe i wasnt prepared to build event. I actually this whole journey did not expect to come on anything. So the advice of a friend of ours whose lawyer and investigator. He knows a guy whos then frantic photographer. So i called this guy who was by the way involved in the sovereigns of the land. Investigations, a top expert. Jonathan good enough for us. Esther only to see him. He said you going to waste your money. Two and 50 an hour. You waste your money. Going to ukraine. I went and met with him and we looked at the pictures. The young anna had sent me. Measured distances between teachers. He said you know, i cant tell you its them. Then at one point i was just sick. He said, but i cant you that it is not them. And he started to give me clues when i could look for when i went to ukraine. To look at pictures, theyre taking of the exact same angle, to measure all of these features. Look at the close the polish people were. If the being photographed, they might fbn the same outfits. That became a critical thing to look for. Jonathan in addition to the content of what youre saying, in earlier but your book is that this story is so fascinating storytelling is also so fascinating. Youre talking about hiring a forensic investigator when were also not talking about it with our parents. Right. Your parents. It took about this guy who sends us for a car coming want you to come over is desperately to tell you a story gives you a piece of information that is absolutely fundamental to is on right that he didnt tell his own children. Its as if like all of these people have two shuttles and with one, theyre trying to uncover and with the other one theyre trying to bury it. Those two shovels. Why are we like that. Esther do think were all like that. Typical Holocaust Survivors and their families. In the stories, that i know your my mother your grandmother, the at the end of her days, still was upset that she did not say goodbye. So these stories with them. You want to put that behind you. You want to take the shovel and just shovel those stories in the ground. And try to let them go. And sometimes we just cant let them go. I tried. And then i took this journey and was able to find my own peace with the story. Jonathan what do you think grandmas reaction wouldve been if i had said, im going on this trip and i want to learn everything i can. Not to worry. Help me be a part of this. I want to hear what you have to say. There you wouldve gone to her. You expected this if it were kind of casual like youre in a basic writing the book and shes upstairs. But information travels quickly and house. When youre stuck with just couple of other people so spot is just that it did not come up, is in secrecy going on. So what is the alternative to that kind of secrecy believe that there is not an alternative. When you look back, do you feel any regret. And dont use that word lightly. I dont mean to imply the really people have a choice. The psychology mightve been so traumatic that that really wasnt a choice be so so severe. But when look back, do you look back with anymore regret the things works more open. Esther well of course. And having written the book, i come out of it is a different person. The person does more open. And for the rest of my life. I guess i was able to pull plug out. I didnt even know how to describe it. If like you wonder which grandma wouldve said if we had told her you were going. I can tell you what she said when i told her i was going. I made all of the arrangements, is meeting these brothers and everything was planned. I had to find an Airline Flight in. The only airline i can find by the way his family and no, news kind of ironic, assigned to my ancestral homeland on a germany carrier. But lisa knew it was safe. As hardest part of this, was calling her up to tell her that it was going. Because i knew what her reaction would be. It will actually didnt know it would be profound as it was pretty hundred up and said mom and done all of this work. Theyre going to ukraine and im going to go with them. And she screamed into the phone. Can you do this to me. I was leaving her. Every minute who had been this blessed letter. Now i was leaving her. As it is okay, frank our older son is coming with me. And she said you are taking your child. How can you do this. And in the next day, she understood that her response wasnt totally rational and she called me and she said, try to understand where all my fears coming from. Then i called her, then the final call was ready to boarded the plane. And i called to say goodbye. Its interesting because on the things that has haunted her most of her life is that she never said goodbye to her mother. When she escaped. And here her one and only precious first daughter, was going to go and say goodbye to her. Shes very rational. She knew she could not talk me out of it. It turns out we are both to stop women. When we were pitted up against each other produce quite a scene. And she said well, take a good look. Bring some granola bars. Dont eat anything they give you. Whatever you do, dont do anything stupid it. Thats when she knew really knew me well. [laughter]. And she told me this after you would come back. And she knew you made it safely. Jonathan that response of hers, try to understand where all of my fears coming from. It all must have been the title of your book as well. And maybe it gets at what we are talking about the kind of ease of a certain kind of communication and difficulty of another. The desire to uncover one kind of thing and bury another kind of thing. Behind it is a really deep fear. It is inherited in adult taken as a fear, physical safety. I think it is a fear of emotional safety. But dont think this is particular to us. It is no so many jewish friends but very similar situations. If they dont do a whole lot of hissing. When a whole lot of say i love you. Esther is interesting. If i havent discussed it with anybody but i thought about that i have been thinking about that. C5 and what did you think about it. Esther i thought about my mother. I dont remember how many times she told me she loved me. And as she did. But that was not something she was able to say. Jonathan [laughter]. Clearly the inability to say has nothing in the world to do with the feelings. If anything, and is an overwhelming desire to say it. In mixing it very difficult because it does expose you while it exposes you. And people who have been hurt, dont like to be exposed. Was there anything that you didnt include include in the book. We have talked about the needed to bury certain things. The need to keep certain things distant and having different audiences for different ideas of different emotions or conversations. When grandma passed away, you said it preview up and started to include things that you would not have included otherwise. During have to get into what the actual material i beat for there anything that you actually thought you cannot put into this book. Esther everything that was already in the book, before she died, that was able to dig deeper emotionally, is able to talk about different things. To talk about how i felt has an eight yearold. Had i feel. His Digging Deeper into myself. And something you didnt include why would he tell everybody know. C5 little time is past. Things get strange and zoom. He often said when youre working on the book when youre conceiving of it. And when you were working on it when news of 2. 1 is going to be published. Im doing it for my family. To be honest, i never quite fully believed that. Because maybe that is just a way to create less exposure. To make yourself less available to the kind of hurt. Only to your family not to a large reading world. But then funny happened which was coronavirus. And your book tour which was going to take you all over the states of the world was canceled. And the sad reality is that book stores are closed. Military marketplaces decimated. Is been a very tough thing for your book. What surprised me is your reaction. As far as i can tell, you really dont seem to care very much. Love talking to people. Esther lab seminar, i talked to my agent this morning. I was telling him a much im these zoom talks. It surprised me, i thought i would love the reactions and seeing people. It would have. But the intimacy of these conversations like women were having, he said to me, is said about enjoying the talks. Spent selling the book. Seek to help me to urge everyone to buy the book. Anyway. Jonathan is like why agents dont invite people over for breakfast by the way. [laughter]. Esther had and i feel. I think since my mothers death. I think i have a lot of horse drinks. There are things that you can change they just go with it and you make the best of it. What do i love these zoom talks. But my brother been at the book festival i was invited to be. But theres nothing i can do about this and what it can do is make the best of this time. It is what she did. And i think its the stories. What a family is been through. Life left lessons. And theres nothing i can do. The book itself, has humor in it. Its about the past. I can not bring my family back account and do what was done. But i can build the future and i can look ahead. I can look at the amazing family that we have. The grandchildren that we were blessed with. Look ahead. Try to preserve those stories so they will always know where they came from. Does into question. Jonathan its beautiful. So my last question then we will open it up to everyone is here as do the future. Youre just alluding to. Sort of mantra like Jewish Education many my jewish identity. Esther or inadequacy of it. Jonathan no no no no the mantra. Never forget. I commanded violent anti phrase, that was a phrase i heard most often. In the phrase that was sort of presided over my experience as a young jewish person. Dont forget because is where you come from. Never forget because it can happen again if you do forget. My sense is that you never holy despite somebody being so invested in memory, you never holy approved of that slogan. Not as an identity. The beacon in in this part of the conversation about talking about that idea and never forgetting as opposed to perhaps remembering or what it will look like for people for like my kids who i can tell you right now are not going to have the same instincts to go way back into the family. Not going to have the same instinct to find out the nittygritty of their cultural jewish heritage. Some just not going to be there connection. So we make it. Esther they would have to because ive done that for them. And it will be on long after buddy or nobody is buying book. It will be a help, and the libraries in my grandchildrens grandchildren. But in writing the book, i dont want my children or grandchildren, because of the holocaust was a terrible thing that happened. I want them to know what happened but i want them to find the joy in judaism. Theres so much of. In writing the book and about memory and jewish memory and one of the things that i came across that lots of scholars have talked about is the choose people of history. We dont look at the broad we do but theres no word in hebrew of history. Howard told over and over in the bible, the holidays, remember, remember. Its all about remembering. We just pass over it not too long ago. Presume close to see ourselves as we came out of egypt. If were not talking about when this happened and how many people. We are talking about visualizing ourselves on this journey. Its remembering the jury. From a very personal point of view. And i write in the book when you think about the history and the end of something. Its also think that happened in somebody story that happened that way back when. But memory is our story. And its the beginning of something. It is not the reason to celebrate judaism but it is our story. We have to remember that story. As i said, the boo certainly tea very sad story. The stories being told they can be remembered so that we can look at it and towards the end of the book i come back to memory that i come back to the fact that the memories live on in your children and then our grandchildren. In the Holocaust Survivors children. Have the people who perished. Im sorry, new we remember the people who perished. But this the memory of when them to carry forward. But i wanted to be a joyful jewish experience. And i spent most of my professional life as a Public Relations and in politics but in helping to build an institution to build jewish future. We have close memories. Jonathan consumer. So think we we are opening it up now right. Host exactly right thank you arthur and jonathan. After, i just want to echo what you said. Definitely, times that we are experiencing and coping with but the Silver Lining is that we were able to sit together now have hundreds of people access this incredible talk. And were just so honored to have you here read all start off with this question that ellen sinton. What was your first reaction to finding out about your fathers former family. It does you share this knowledge with your other relatives and if so, what was their response. Esther i was dazed it what to say. So for them more my 40s and the mother of three, and ive been living with all of these other ghosts. My grandmothers and grandfathe grandfathers. My answer my cousins and suddenly there is the southern coast. This was a person who wouldve been biologically closest to me. I would had to absorb it i scoured databases and try to find something i couldnt. And ultimately on the search, i found a lot. I was really lucky for jonathan to have opened the doors. Its really interesting. In dallas, in the book i talk about myself as being the hinge. Thus the way i always tell myself as the hinge between my mother who lived in this heroic life. A little tiny women bigger than life to everybody and some of her grandchildren caller superhero. And through the storytellers. I wasnt sure my place was that story. And this guy interviewing me said bueno doors dont open without hinges. So is able to put my appropriate place into the story. And you mentioned about your Research Online and information and can you expand on that. Tell us a little bit about your research message. We have questions your son asked, was basically wiped off the map and forgotten. How were you able to go back and find the residence interview when he found them, how were you able to communicate with them. Esther does not exist. I remember was i thinking back in the book, the rebels and places. I told me there was nothing there. Does not exist. Why did was i met with survivors in other parts of the world. I was totally except for the postmaster. Is wiped off of the face of the earth. He came in get there on the road now. When took this trip in 2009, there are survivors who went on the trip. Right about then turning the book. It was hysterical. There are survivors or walking down the place where nothing existed were there was nowhere. And they said, you lived here and i lived there. Soandso lived there. Then another survivor would say northern tier. You can visualize what that channel mustve been like. These powerful funny people and arguing with each other. The people i met were in other places. I did meet people in my mothers family and her village. This young woman versus the young anna, the old anna and the middleaged data. The translator anna, she felt lucky she done all of this research. So thats how i communicated with people was through her. An interesting part is family my father, they write to me. They claim his family. I directed them, this is my american family. We would not have existed if it wasnt for our grandfather. Host there are so many stories. Some holocaust testimonies. One persons risk. You are able to discover that. So we have a section here from rebecca. She asked when one party memoir you talk about how you use jonathans novel about finding true through his fiction. So how do you see those intersections between fiction and nonfiction in your memoir. Esther i should probably ask jonathan that question two. The me say he didnt find anything. He did not go to these places. He found a guess, we feel this whole. I was looking ultimately for something different. But i think what is so important about this is that stories he told through fiction, through the real stories jonathan was able to speak to a different generation and a different audience that work of fiction. I think in inspired people. To think about where they came from. Unfortunately because of his work, because the things i found, i was able to write the true story. I dont know another situation for fiction becomes the impetus to find reality. Its kind of interesting. Host is very unique. Question from scott. To think it is harder for children of survivors to feel deal with holocaust, because they dont have the ghost stories and theyre based off of secondhand information as opposed to their own memories and experiences. Positive front. Esther theres been a lot of work done about transmission of trauma to gma. Dont really, i have not read into that. Its not much i know about it. So much depends on personality. Look at my father who clearly could not survive. My mother who is the ultimate survivor. Get going and kept moving forward. I am a natural optimist. I think the traumas, the stories that i know my mother survived. This gives me strength. Host and your optimism definitely shines through pretty can you tell us a little bit about the story behind the title. I want yo i want you to know we still here, which is coming pretty. Jonathan i was really struggling with the title. And henny and i talked to elisabeth about this but ultimately, when i went to ukraine, i had prepared myself to find nothing in the people are taking these journeys tried to make sure manage my expectations that it would be enough to walk these dirt roads and breathe the air my ancestors had. Unfortunately i found it so much more than i had ever hoped. They also decided in the same way that it took the sword took that back in said lock bags. A music block queen. It took george back into blocks. And it now looks like an art installation in my living room. I thought i also wanted to leave something of myself in his place. Okay leave in on my living afford. Living in mass graves. We took a picture and its very important to me were altogether. And the year my mother died, there were 14 of us in the picture. Im just so proud of the survivals that came out of this terrible piece of history. So i decided to take five of those pictures. I buried them. At the same time i was speaking of dirt from these mass graves. I buried the picture. Actually, we just dug in. Whos leaving this picture corbin in my mind i was saying, to my grandmothers into my hands to my cousins, you know that we are still here read that was my ultimate message. I cant change what happened to them. But i can talk about the future in the future us, we are still here. Host and shealy in the comet section said she references the title of i want you to know were still here. Esther i learned something from each of these talks. And now we have a question for jonathan. Host jonathan how does reading your mothers book we consider nonfiction read your journey back to ukraine. Jonathan the book that i wrote about it you mean. Not at all. I rented 20 years ago. I have changed so much of my life and have not read read the book sense i published it. On halftime our time to even remember what senate. There are a lot of ways i was changed by my mothers book. Im sure it will influence how i write in the future but for me but is in the passes in the past and am glad that life brought me to rem. Im embarrassed about things and im proud about them as well. And i dont any desire to revisit them. Esther it could not have done it without you. Host i am so glad that you did it. We are running out of time. In time for just one more question. I am sorry that we wont get to so many Great Questions and comments in the section. We have so many hundreds of people watching is impossible. But i will close with this one question that comes from andrea. Do you think theres any larger lessons to be learned from reading this story over and above the importance of preserving the stories, for the future. But you want your readers to take away from it overall. Esther i think the message i want you to know were still here. I want them to know what happened. I was able to put those memories down from her grandchildren in a finance who will read the book and i am delighted about that. Among the things that i found what, i mean, ukraine, is that there was life there. There were divorces and abortions and all sorts of things. I didnt expect to learn about that. And to look to the future. Jonathan i took something a little different away from your book. As it should be. The nice thing about setting look into the world is that everybody takes, with the take from it. For me, the moral the macadam world. Which was is better to talk. Spinner to talk about things we dont have an impediment to of time with people. And our ability to know them and at the help in knowing ourselves. Is limited. So we need to make most of it even when it is very scary. Our family has a lot of things that are scary just like every other family. But i think that with you and grandma, with me in burma, manuel. With all of us, sometimes the fear expresses itself in silence. Into me, your book is an argument against that kind of silence. Esther anybody is thinking about this, not even just going on these journeys in the research. But to write some of their stories. Its so important. Noahs grandmother, im a different person from having gone through the process of the writing. If theres one lesson in particular right now is that we are still here. We are resilient. Its an important lesson right now they were going through. This crazy situation in the country in the world. But you can make it. Host absolutely nothing to do something that resonates with everyone watching tonight. Thank you once again esther and jonathan rated this was an incredible program. Thank you to all of our viewers who tendon tonight. Please god invite esthers book. I want you to know where still here. I want you to know were still here. It is out now on amazon and also politics and prose. At the bookstore. Politics and prose. Com. So definitely glad to buy the book. If you want to learn more about where they are from, you can visit our partners, she was jen. Com. Ancestral and location finer than esther definitely encountered. I am sure that it will reveal a lot of fascinating information about your own family history. As i mentioned it, this program was recorded it and it will be up on youtube most likely tomorrow. And will be sending out that link. Look out for it. And finally, if you enjoyed what you saw here, please donate to the museum