Host Eugene Odonnell is a lecturer at the John Jay College of criminal justice. He is a former new York City Police officer, and instructor at the police academy. Eugene odonnell, welcome to washington journal. Guest good to be with you. Host let me ask you about how this all started. Int do you think went wrong the encounter between the four officers and george floyd on that memorial day arrest attempt . It is a would say complex conversation. It is going to consume a lot of time. It is a terrible outcome. My condolences to the family. Pointview, the starting is political breakdown at the top. I dont know why Police Officers in the middle of a pandemic are involved in a 20 counterfeit bill custodial arrest. The same thing happen in the eric garner case. The mayors have to give more clarity. Any Police Interaction can end badly. This is obviously a horrible one. Nobody can promise that you cant have some version of this going forward. You will have issues going forward. It is the nature of the work. We have people that are offering up the idea that you can train your way to a point where this wont ever happen. Get that out of your mind. There is no way to do that. The only way to do that is to completely curtail policing. In fact, we see in city after city, policing has been curtailed. In cities like philly and milwaukee, and baltimore famously. Doubtsody had any american policing is in its twilight, all they had to do is look at what happened this weekend. The headlines shouldve been that the collapse of policing. I hate campaign against the police that raged on against 45 years, no fact was too important to ignore. Misrepresentation, this ingenuity raged on. 5000 negative articles, on contextual articles. Not one single article that talked about policing from the urban perspective of a police person. The important conversation we have to have now, we should have had five years ago. Is how we are going to protect in country with the police smaller availability. One of the reasons for that has been, and no doubt will be exacerbated, a collapse in interest of young people to be policed. Want toheir right mind put on a Police Uniform in a big city . What rock would you have to climb out of . Host obviously, looting and writing, the most obvious is a sample of the he called a collapse of policing. Daytoday and cities like new york and chicago, how does that evidence itself . What does it look like . That drawback by Police Forces . Guest it looks like murder. With no consequences. It means police make it to your house. They dont have a whole lot of if youre going to construct a conversation about policing. 30 million calls to the new York City Police department. Amount of work people do there. Its good work they do. And dont recognize the caricature of the people thrown out there. 25 million to say calls, mostly without incident of any kind, not necessarily misconduct, that that is enough to stop the city in its tracks . Now these mayors have a lot to answer for. These mayors who drove the train and drove their cities over the cliff. Mayors like garcetti and frey, who were more extremist than the most extremist voices and agreed there is no institution in the and america worse than the police. The city could be sacked or looted. You could have 20,000 homicides in chicago. Nothing is worse than the American Police. That is where they took the conversation. They cant get out of that now. They grandstand against belize. They told the public that they were some sort of monster that had to be tamed. Youreality is, some, if people die when the police do their jobs. Now see cities like detroit where the police have not been. A Police Officer involved shootings have flatlined. Response time has flatlined. They have flatlined because there is no policing. Is twonversation, there groups of people that have been totally silenced. One would be Police Officers. What would they know . Ive never had a conversation with a cop that i didnt learn three or four things. Of course, the community on the ground that does not meet the police. Or is amenable to police reform. If you go out to a community meeting, it is a totally different conversation. They are going to pay the price. Hollywood hills who have their security guaranteed, taking pot shots and sneering at police. If we have learned anything in the last couple of weeks, institutions have to be defended. Nobody speaks for institutions. Whether it is the police or the fbi. Shamelessly, by both parties. There is no more Important Agency than the fbi in Racial Justice and in going after the terrorists that latched onto these protests. Policing the construct that policing canton badly is absurd. Of people would be in federal Law Enforcement that dont have opinions . They would look at candidates, for sure, and conclude they are unfit for office. And people can judge when the fbi thinks people are unfit for office. Host we will open up our phone lines for viewers and listeners to talk with jean odonnell. A lecturer at the John Jay College of criminal justice, former nypd officer. The line is 202 7488001 four republicans. 202 7488000 four democrats. For independents, that line 202 7488002. If you are a Law Enforcement official, that line is 202 7488003. We will get your calls and comments in just a moment. A question for you about new yorks police force. You are part of the Public SafetyTransition Team in 2013. The New York Times says, blah seo faces cheers as police crackdown. This is in the wake of looting in new york city. How do you think the nypd has fared . Guest i think the nypd has fared well. Records ofs had people trying to fights. Thousands of people have vilified and castigated and got into the faces of an provoked and attacked and used hate speech and have targeted africanamerican cops on the front line. They are looking, they still havent gotten it, they will eventually get it, they are looking for some video that will show the police as a 1930s group with batons raised over peoples heads so they can use it to distort the conversation. The mayor of the city has played a despicable role in this conversation, as have so many other, socalled progressive people who, senator sanders comes to mind. People have irresponsibly to make ground irresponsibly demagogue. Who is the villain in all of this . The villain is police. We are going to take this complicated issue of urban safety take senator sanders, with young people hanging on his every word, had no solutions to the problems of urban america. Talk about a cynical approach. He was a mayor. He ran burlington. All he had to say was, Public Safety is a complicated conversation. He knew the room empty out, so he engaged in this 1, 2, three Year Campaign suggesting that we should be hunting for enemies,. He wealthy, starbucks, target all of these entities that were targeted. Im not pinning all of the blame on senator sanders, i just hisced yesterday is twitter feed, he is confused about whether looting has a value. It is not too late for the people that did this to correct the record. Leasing will not be resuscitated. Bepolicing will not resuscitated, but the damage these folks have done will endure. Who will protect the police if it will not be the police . Will it be the army . People with ar15s . Will every man, woman, and child have a gun . Will he have a strongman government . We have Political Violence . From thecongressman Republican Party shot. A congressman shot in the head. Attempts to breach the white house. These are very serious conversations. Should have been done for five years. What is discouraging as, the conversation got narrower and narrower. And the larger conversation got totally polarized and hijacked. Cspan is the only place in the country for anybody to have conversation that is not insane at this point. You aboutnt to ask lawsuits regarding Excessive Force. Reporting from the Supreme Court reporter robert barnes. As protests continue over the death of george floyd, the Supreme Court is exploring a form of immunity that has shielded police from lawsuits about Excessive Force and alleges civil rights violations. The court could announce as soon as monday either it will except for argument challenges to a doctrine called qualified immunity. It protects officers from lawsuits unless plaintiffs can show that the accused violated clearly established laws or Constitutional Rights they should reasonably be aware of. It is your view on the qualified immunity argument . Guest this is being pushed out to the lunatic fringe that hijacked this conversation. The police and only the police have the idea of using force in society. Elected officials, they made that case. They made the case they could not understand why the police would ever use coercion or physical force. Im in a city that had 84 shootings last weekend. Had 24 fatalities. An enormous amount of violence. Now i have a situation where we are going to give a report card to cops, aerobically going into the situations and a lot of times no matter how much they are told not to, it cannot help but abide. The Chicago Police the other night, in a highspeed chase, after somebody committed a homicide which is basically decriminalized. This is where we are at. We are at a point where the use of forces brutality. The use of deadly force is murder. Policing cant be coercive, ever. Hearing things like, the officer had a prior history of using force. Mayors could have cleaned this up before it got radioactively hot. They could have been courageous, they could have used their political capital. We just saw as how unconnected the mayors of the cities are. They have no connection to their own communities. We talk about cameras . To haveutely need now cameras on politicians. I dont need mean that in a cynical way. 24 all of us like to know hours what leading up to the riots in the cities, where these mayors were, what were they doing . What relationships today have in the community . Most of these mayors, it is a vanity project. They know they cannot solve fundamental problems, so they are going to take the most cynical ploy, these very complicated problems they failed to solve. The mayors became a lightning rod. They said their constituents, the only problem in this country is the police. That is what they said. Now they have driven the train so far and they cant get ahead of a lunatic fringe that wants to put the police out of his this. That is where they are. The center of this conversation now is whether or not police should be put out of business and the mayors in these cities have a lot to answer for. They themselves driving the train. If the police are put out of business, and as i have said, they are going business out of business all over the place, people will not be able to get their own safety, they will pay the price. There are millions of americans contemplating whether they will stay in cities. Cities are going to be very forlorn places. Safe,yre not safe, not cities will clear out. To any inill go california. Democrats line. Good morning. Caller good morning. The evacuation of all police stations should be immediate. I talked to several people toely and they are hoping retrain, to maybe somehow get some transparency. An officer who is known to be rude to normal citizens, his name should be put on the latter in public where any of us can ask and see if this guy has a history. We should be able to say, this this on thisone date and should not be allowed to keep getting pats on the back. There originally goes up. One may be more susceptible than the other. Need to bee things transparent. If these people are going to police me and all of the future people out there, they want to know that they are going to be safe and fair. And that is all this is all about. This is what they are fighting for. Host jeannie in california. Eugene odonnell, your thoughts. Guest retrospect they are not going to police you. Last thing anybody should think its going to be helpful now as a lecture to police on human rights after their human rights were absolutely disparaged, kicked in many ways by mayors. Lightfoot and chicago, after the Chicago Police heroically defended the city in a right, ok . 12 hour tours, got three hours of sleep. The mayor failed and her mission to protect the city. And went on the air the next day. Imagine being a cop watching television and finding out the mayors listing complaints at that stage against the police . Look at the hate speech. I havent seen anything horrific written about mr. Floyds death. I have seen thousands of vile hate speech directed against the police. If anybody thinks the police are in a particular mood to get lectured to by people who would never do their job, never put themselves in harms way, i saw police in chicago, i saw them in philly, i saw officers, many of them white, but they were protecting black west philadelphians. If any neighborhood burns down, that neighborhood will never come back. Cops were discharging their duty in the most honorable way. The media was there. What was the media there to do . Find another story they could write negatively about police. The untold story of policing in is last few days for sure how a few, maybe thousands of cops literally saved some parts of cities. Of course, as everyone knows who was in philly and chicago, store owners, immigrants, vulnerable left to their own devices. Philadelphia was wide open. 911 was not answering. Police officers were told to allow people to loot, which might have been a good idea, but this is not a very good time for people to be wagging their fingers at Police Officers. Have been punching bags. And have been attacked. Progressive mayors have created an environment where they cannot defend themselves. Host want to let folks know we do have a line for Law Enforcement officers. That line 202 7488003. Like in maryland. Good morning. Caller i am a Law Enforcement officer now because the police cant do their jobs. I am a National Guardsmen and i have to get activated because of this pity party that eugene is having for himself about how hard it is for cops. It is so impossible for us to not put knees on the next of protesters. This is a direct correlation between those cities having rights and those that arent. It is directly inline to the Police Officers. Baltimore has been quiet. Because the cops havent been teargassing and knocking over all people, running over people with horses, driving cards into crowds. All of the outrageous, unbelievably violent, fascist nonsense that guys like eugene are responsible for. This guy is an absolute clown. This is the problem why police in policing in new york has been a problem. This guy goes directly from the Police Department to training cops at the cap academy. A. K. A. John jay. Host we will hear a response from Eugene Odonnell. Guest sounds like hate speech to me, but we will move on. Lets look at the data, but there is no interest in looking at the data. We are an environment where you could write a balanced piece looking at the abuses that have occurred, the complicated relationship to the Africanamerican Community. There is no place to publish that analysis. Theou compare the nypd to ku klux klan, 6 Million People read that. If you say the president should deploy the airborne deflector ,eenagers, and shoot them down 6 Million People will read that. We have an extremist conversation. Cspan may be the only place left for the center. As ive been saying to the media, i know these stories poke through when you wrote them. He knew a lot of the more true. You may not eventually know where youre going to take us, but how do we all feel now where we are . Do we feel better today in a country that is increasingly ungovernable . Where are we going to be in 10 years time westmark its going to be with policing having a much smaller footprint. Again, some of the cities that do not have disturbances, some of the cities that do not have disturbances have extraordinary levels of violent crime. Streets that are among the most dangerous on the world. It is a complicated conversation. To do it ethically is a hard thing to do. If police do their job, some people may lose their lives. If police dont do their child their job, people will lose their life. Please use to be willing to take risks. The kindle longer do that. Again they can no longer do that. Great victory for the extreme left. Collapse of policing. Chicago, 7, 8,n nine africanamerican kids will be alive and the next sunday they will not be alive. Host this is todd. Good morning. Caller i would like to know that everything thats going on, a big fix in minnesota wouldve been if there wasnt four white cops showing up at that scene and would have had an interracial set, i think there would have been a lot less trouble. With all of these Police Chiefs showing up on the tv saying, were not going to allow the cops to go out there and do their jobs, it is just tying all their hands up. The new mayors, then your Police Chiefs, and everybody else, they are tying everybodys hands up. They need to stop that stuff. Weve got enough of that in congress and we dont need it, for people to get her on the streets. Know from congress, the, when you make decisions you draw fire and heat. This is a complicated conversation, there is a huge amount of time to have it. I think most people are opening open to having a real conversation, not the insane circus we have. The shooting in minneapolis of an african shoter, an african officer a white, australian woman. You can have this conversation. It needs to be data driven. A city like new york, the Police Department is provably, every metric proves restraint and every possible way. Im not saying there is not abuses. Violent,they do is adversarial work. Ifof the protesters you want to do reform, we can stop making that happen. And tell them not to make those arrests and send the victims against batterers. That is a charged situation that, no matter what the police have to do that. Anyone of those arrests could end in a death. It is very easy for officers to get injured. There were many officers injured and routine arrest. Host this is a question from florida. Should officers live in the communities or neighborhoods in which they serve . Nowt unfortunately, right presence is not making the heart grow fonder. As this conversation goes, more are telling their children, dont even go near policing. They are telling people they cant wait to get out. When they leave, they dont just leave the city. They leave the state. In the whole region. They dont want to deal with this anymore. And you can see why. Take a look at just an hour of the extraordinary assault, the violence, the clear and present danger officers have faced in these protests. Unsupported, with a history of lunatics showing up, urged on by mayors. Mayors are urging a lunatic fringe into their cities. You had three Police Officers assassinated because of the suggestion by mayor de blasio that the police are marauding through neighborhoods and picking on people randomly. How disingenuous. Known, allr mustve you have to do to curb the police is to tell them not to do proactive policing. Just tell them not to do it. Then on the fact that if you dont take runs off the street, lives will be lost. If he said that to the people, and you contextualize the conversation. This is a strawman argument. The police on their own, why do the police on their own care if people dont care whether the city is attacked, people are shot . If the mayor is going on tv and besmirch them and attack them, this is an insane conversation. Weve been doing this for five years. Ive been warning that if we dont have a serious conversation about this topic, policing is going to collapse. Policing collapsed on monday. It has collapsed. Any department is at risk now. If the formulation is, one event, one visceral thing that is upsetting, that is a standard that cant be met. We should spend our money elsewhere if that is going to be the standard. There is too good reasons to spend our money elsewhere. And the fact we cant get anybody doing the job. If we find anybody that wants to be an urban cop, its probably somebody you dont want. Host john, do us a favor, mute. Caller i just did i would like to simply preface my remarks by saying, i am not in any way trying to excuse egregious police behavior. But there are two things that concern me that i would like your guests comments on. One, why has there been no meaningful discussion about the rate of crime in black communities . It seems to be totally toward. We hear totally ignored. We hear about the mass incarceration and that this scenario seems to be the police are indiscriminately aching up blackmails and putting them in prison. Why dont we discuss the high rate of homicide and other Violent Crimes committed within the black community . The second question, matter i would like you to comment on is, in the last 20 or 30 years, i seem to have seen an incredible increase in the amount of destructive weapons available to the general public. Then makeons themselves available to the criminal elements and police seem to be outgunned. I can understand why the police have adopted a more militarized approach. Because i think it is becoming increasingly more dangerous over the last 20 or 30 years for them to do their job. Host we will let you go. Eugene odonnell. Guest member, people of all persuasions took cheap shots at the police. You have seen the complexity of that conversation. Washe first question, which host the rate of crime. Aest mass incarceration was catastrophe. Arrests were made that were chris. Junk arrests. Again, minneapolis, the fact that that stuff is still being handled, we should hang ourselves and shame. Particularly those of us who are older and no better and saw this going, when policing was turned into this metricdriven insanity. And lead to people being arrested for things that are embarrassing. That people lost their liberty over. This whole conversation was people, many of them people like mayor giuliani who is appearing as a Police Expert but was one of the most reviled persons in the Africanamerican Community, wanted to run for senate. Had 1 of the black vote. No residents now in urban america has anything to say, and democrats too, and i got i cap myself and not for not seeing this slow burning catastrophe of overjailing. A country that has no Space Available in college and school, but always had a jail cell available. We need to do sensible justice reform. The Republican Party should unite the country on things like bail reform, which is mostly the right thing to do. There is some exceptions to that. The Republican Party should make that here, right now. The fact that militarization, again, the media that trumpeted this have some shame. School shootings. Terrorist attacks. The idea the police are going to come in plainclothes in sedans and minivans that are set on fire and molotov cocktails are thrown at them, and they are rolled over and nobody could figure out why the police would want to have more equipment. This is the most nuanced conversation. It takes years to have. Learned 25 things. There is so much to learn. Insanity ofss and an ideological conversation is so dispiriting at this point. And where are we going to be . Are we going to do this for the next five years . Host we will hear from regina next. Regina in apollo, pennsylvania. Caller this is regina. I appreciate your position on what you are saying about the farleft. I am appalled you are talking about trump in republicans being a problem. In pittsburgh, along with philadelphia, it is run by democrats. They are both sanctuary cities. People before the protests in east liberty and different places, the businesses, who police could not protect because all that you are saying here. The money actually went to funding parks in pittsburgh. Instead of, or may be more money into schools so we can have more emotionally disturbed children who, when i was a substitute teacher i knew one day that student would be before a policeman like you. The principal said, i dont need any help if they throw a chair at me, so what . You know what . I feel for you, but i think it is time to realize what you said. Police did stand down. What is the problem if mr. Trump is saying, i want to protect these peoples businesses. What them to protect their own property and not the like the police, being injured. Where is the fuss with these minorities about getting coronavirus and being high rate and they are standing together having a big protest and running around, throwing bottles, and some of the whites are doing that too. We had a white man picked up in pittsburgh, im not sure what the name is, he put out a gofundme account to try to get a stupid lawyer. Fortunately it got shut down because he torched and encouraged torching one of the police cars. Host that is regina in pennsylvania. Eugene odonnell, your comments. Guest the president is manifestly unfit to be in office. It is so obvious. Provoking this conversation. Does he think he is helping the police with the kind of rhetoric he has engaged in . The kind of inflammatory stuff while the heroic cops in the neighborhoods are trying to have relationships with people in the most difficult situations . He is provoking people, talking about sending in the army . The Africanamerican Community has a long history of serving this country from top to bottom. Anybody who wants to see it, look at the covid crisis. They have been a lifeline to the country in every role, big and small. Postal service, transit workers, Service Workers of every kind. Doctors, nurses, you name it. The Africanamerican Community has been in the middle of that and nobody can avoid noticing the tone of this president s comments. Either way, this president spoken one of the most insulting speeches imaginable to the police by minimizing and suggesting they should brutalize people. The American Police are proud. The people i know are proud that they are like preservers and they take great risks. Despite very difficult circumstances, they take every step they can. Felte way, that is deeply by new york city cops. It is not because there is a guideline. Cops are proud of the fact that they are able to nonviolently resolve some of the most forney situations. Situations. We will go to van nuys california in the san fernando valley. And here from everly. Caller good morning. Please dont cut me off. I hope i get much air like regina. This is a very touchy subject to me. Odonnell saysr. This should have been taking care of, something in that nature, five years ago. No. It should have been taking care of 40 years ago. My family and i are victims of Police Brutality. As pregnant with my sun son, two white officers beat me 32ndin front of 36 market in l. A. Years later, they did the chokehold on me. My point is, we need to get these corrupt chiefs and corrupt police off the street. They are covering up for each other. That is my problem. This should have been going on. Black, unarmeder man to bring out these protests. People are fed up. I am still traumatized. I went out and protest on mr. George floyd in honor of my brother, donald. 1982. Six officers took the unarmed man on a freeway and did the chokehold. One other, please. When we were going to trial for my brother, the judge sitting on that bench said, if you are under the influence of a substance, the police are not supposed to Police Brutality on you. Take you to the nearest hospital. If you did a criminal act, you are not supposed to be beat down. Police brutality and killed. That is in the constitution. It is under a code. I cant remember, because this is a 1982. A judge said that. You cant go above the law and just kill people. Host we appreciate you sharing your experience. Week i think just this how people poll of in the Africanamerican Community feel about police. When people were asked if they were unfairly treated these days, because policing is done last now, just a little bit over 40 of africanamerican said they were personally mistreated by the police. Almost 30 of white people said the same thing. I dont suggest that there is is, think of the Police Departments in the country. There is definitely people who are thugs and should not be in this business. That might be our only choice at the end. What other choice will you have if nobody wants the profession . From reading the media, that 90 of people in the Africanamerican Community had personally had initial. As policing has been in senti, fewer people have stories. Unfortunately, who plays the price when the police are not there . Again, 20,000 homicides in the city of chicago and other places. By the way, weve got this problem in big cities. You have much more festering issues now. We name, midsize cities. Many ways,cing, and is ancient history. I know people will say, point to minneapolis. But what makes minneapolis not only horrific but bizarre is by the police would be so actively engaged in an event that is, and most big cities, would draw no attention at all. Host a couple of questions on twitter. Says, pay cops substantially more money to incentivize the profession, while increasing the risk of firing from wrongdoing. Question from deb in missouri. Will there be a fair trial for the four officers . The last one. Discussed competence training for police . Any of those topics you would like to address . Guest i pass on that. Pass on those questions. I think time is limited. I would like to break some new ground. These things have been discussed endlessly. I would like to open up the. Iscussion in the last five years it is getting narrower and narrower. Host lets go back to calls. Independent line, rachel. Caller good morning. I am just a simple person, but i feel that accountability is the number one thing in this issue. Mr. Floyd is said to do a counterfeit thing, it is a federal crime. Then all of a sudden he does not know he is going to be possibly going into a police car and sitting in the backseat and going downtown with that. I dont know, even though it is poor people, i am not a rich person or anything like that either. Accountability is one issue that out in theway boonies. People are not taking responsibility for their actions. I actually wanted to circle back on the erica said he , because he has been a Police Abolitionist. Then i can answer that question. The mayor of the city of los angeles has put himself out as being an abolitionist of police. He should, this very day, lee says security detail. Lawld release the enforcement that guards him in his office and the mansion he lives in. He really should, if he has any ethics, the zip code that has the largest problem in crime and he should move there. Either way, he and some of the other people proposing Police Abolition should sign a pledge that they and their families will never call 911. I know there is some people trying to that idea. Member, the police are the rule of law. Without the police, the knowledge the police are available, just on the accountability issue the Police Culture has taken a leap. You cannot have accountability that will get you to the point where you are not going to have a video where there is graphic detail. You will see the mayor saying, the surefire way not to have an issue is not to have an engagement in the first place. That is the thing that is now center in the conversation. Mayor of washington dc requesting that federal Law Enforcement leave the city. , i request that President Trump withdraw all extraordinary federal Law Enforcement and military presence in our city. A reminder, the president will hold a News Conference and about 10 minutes. We will cover that live here on cspan and cspan radio. Go now to lynn. Republican line. Caller good morning. I am sitting here watching and it astounds me. We took a bad situation. Trump,ot people blaming blaming this, blaming that. Look. It is wrong for people to go out there and destroy businesses. Attack people. Attack the police. Could you imagine what this world would be if we didnt have police . I would just walk off the japanese cities that does not stand behind them. Yes, we have bad in everything. But the republicans and the democrats, no matter what trump is for, they are against, whether it is wrong, it is right. That is the problem. Then youve got the media that wants to only go with the democrats. And this world would be destroyed because of this. Even if trump does something good, it is just wrong. If he didnt send anybody in, they would be saying, trump is sitting in his ivory terror and he dont want to help nobody. Trump. N wants to blame what happened when obama was in there and they was down here in charlotte, burning trucks and jerking people out of their trucks . Was that all obamas fault . Host Eugene Odonnell, do you think there is any bipartisan agreement on assisting cities . You talked about the shrinking footprint of Police Across the country. Is there federal money that could be implemented to do that . Guest its not going to happen. Who would be a Police Officer in this country . One of the to notable things from the caller is, this conversation has gone off the rails. People do not have an understanding of the other side of the argument. Racism is a fundamental issue in this society that is a legally enshrined in this country. The police were put into positions, sometimes quite happily, of being the worst actors in connection with that enshrinement. We are trying to work our way out of that. One thing we have seen, in case anyone doubted, dividing people and making the country ungovernable is, it makes people feel good, but at the end of the is comeserm rush at a longterm cost. How do you unify the country . How do you have a serious conversation about these issues . When Law Enforcement does not act,. I heard people talking about victims in the last two years has just gone off the rails. That uld just hope there is so much to learn from so many peoples experiences. To just be talking to people that agree with you, that becomes derangement after a while. Derangement builds on derangement and you almost have a cultish mindset. At the very extremes of this conversation. There is no fact, there is no contrary information that will change anybodys mind. It will reinforce their already made up mind. Host our on the looting, headline from washington times, police say well coordinated leaves capitalize on protest chaos. In the nations capital, this is ken. Caller good morning. I appreciate your time. Im not quite sure where the information is, what i heard some sort of percentage that, could you remind me of what it is 40 of black people polled . If you dont have 100 of black adults hold, then it is an inaccurate assessment. Ause you have to go belong beyond policing. Ive been doing it since 1992. I am familiar. Problem inso a society, and that societys problems are going to affect how you police. Even with the loss when i was policing in the early 1990s. That is not a police issue. The law is created by people. Those lawmakers need to be held accountable. But there is a certain amount of frustration at not only people of caller, minorities including poor white people, that black Police Officers and minority Police Officers co. The same thing. There is a culture that exists that is not a healthy one. When we had mr. Aubry, who was gunned down, it is not effective who did it and the racial implications, is the fact that it took so long for police to do something about it. For the orders to be given because the policies and laws are not designed to protect people. Now, looters, they are criminals. But protesters are not. And i, as a black man, as a black Police Officer would hope that people use that right to vote and to protest as much as people push the narrative to use their Second Amendment rights. In closing, it is not that donald trump created racism, happens to be a soldier in white supremacy. Thank you. Host Eugene Odonnell. Guest just to clarify, these are polls sampling africanamericans. 40 said they were unfairly targeted. 60 did not say they were unfairly targeted. There was actually a more intriguing call that said at africanamericans in this climate, trust the police to be racially fair and in enforcing masks. There is a reservoir of trust. Police are, when all is said and done, doers and actors. And people who live a life of service. They understand that. The Police Continue to be one of the most asked respected institutions in the country. If you can have a conversation where you destroy the institution with no plan for what comes next, that is a very worrying thing. No institution could sustain the unrelenting attacks that we put on Police Officers. And millions of dollars and millions of hours of inflammatory incitement. Again, not that there are not legitimate issues, but a lot of this country now suggests it is more complicated than it appears and a lot of policing now is about service and not doing car stops, not during traffic stops, not doing things that will put the policing conflict. That is the surefire way. Host a question for you on twitter. We have a couple of minutes left here before the president s News Conference. Your thoughts on the current new york city push, an effort for a civilian review Board Campaign or where civilians sit in judgment for Police Misconduct . Guest again, that is so absurd at this point. Its just absurd. You have a profession in new york city that all of the data shows by the way, i also want to say, police have been on video now 24 7 for years. Obviously with some notable exceptions, in an 800,000 person agency, in a city callsew york, 25 million where are the videos of police abuse . Where are the videos of police abuse . And where are the complaints of police abuse . Come clean, open up your records and show the very worst cases you have seen in new york. I believe in something not that there cant be some of uses some abuses in this troubled, the most problematic situations, but i would respectfully suggest some total of all of the videos of alleged Police Abuses in new york city art in total when you step back and look at Public Safety generally, they are inconsequential. Will hear from marion host we will hear from marion in chattanooga. I a great with some of the things you are saying. My concern is with some people who call in. Whenever you talk about protests and the police they want to bring up chicago. Our tax dollars pay police. We have a right to protest the police. It would make sense that we went a chicago to try to get solution but not protest the killing chicago. You think more transparency should be part of the police. There are situations when there is abuse. All police are not bad, but there does need to be more transparency the Police Department. Thank you. Host what are your thoughts. Guest it will make policing better. It will not to be a fiasco and you will have hours of nothing notuse the here you are going to find abuse. We need to know where the grands elected officials slam and have no solutions. People insequential the highest Offices National police. We will go to chris. Caller the police have become militarized, what does the guest about crating a new , maybe afor Police Police code of conduct . That i will pass on question. We need to have a substantive conversation and we have had 78 million times and i will suspect we will have more. Wrap up. Are going to Eugene Odonnell joining us to talk about policing in the united states. Thank you for your time. This is abouttwo hours 45 minutes. This hearing will come to order. First i would like to welcome our