Public will have an opportunity to listen to our conversation. A lot of important work over the last few weeks responding to the covid19 crisis. This follows in the virtual roundtable held last week, ices response at the detention facility. Taking time to participate in this roundtable, i think everyone in advance for what we have. I will turn it over to the subcommittee chair. Thank you. At the outset i want to provide a few guidelines that will help this roundtable goes smoothly. I ask that everyone use their microphones unless it is your turn to talk. This will minimize any interruptions or stray noise. I will have my video feed on the entire roundtable. If you prefer to participate in this roundtable or just audio or if you would like to be visible only when it is your time to speak you are welcome to turn off your camera at any time. I want to explain how the roundtable will work and make a few opening comments and chairman nadler will make the opening comments. We follow brief opening remarks and members will have an opportunity to ask questions. This will allow to an informal give and take between members and guests in contrast with more rigid rules that apply during a formal hearing. I appreciate the value of everyones time and i hope we can manage our time efficiently. I limit this to a couple questions and hope other members will too. I hope we can have a good conversation and wrap up by 5 30 eastern time. I thank everyone for your patience and look forward to a good discussion. We have called this roundtable to bring light to the dangerous situation being experienced by prisoners and detainees in the bureau of prisons and in prisons and jails across the country as a result of the covid19 pandemic. Our task is urgent. There are tens of thousands of people in custody who are potentially in harms way because of the department of justices unwillingness to asked to save lives. The death toll in our prisons is at least 57 lives lost and i think that is an undercount. The rate of infection within our federal correction facilities is 6. 4 times greater than that of the us population. When asked about the care packet march, we give them opportunity and ample discretion to do the right thing, place on home confinement those most vulnerable to covid19. Chairman nadler and i and many members of congress have written many letters urging aggressive action to ensure people our place out of harms way. Unfortunately, what we hear, and business as usual. Rather than opening the door to more releases, there are barriers in the way of taking appropriate steps to protect the health of individuals under their care and great inconsistency between federal prisons. Since late last march, we released 3000 prisoners into home confinement in this is a minuscule amount, 150 prisoners in their custody. It likely includes many in the pipeline to be released to home confinement or would have been released anyway. The fact of the matter is the doj significant the underutilize the Authority Congress granted to them under the cares act. It slow walked its response to covid19. At worst they have been derelict in their duty to prevent death and the facilities they operate. Also concerned about the staff and workers who must enter and work at facilities where covid19 is raging. And they are bearing the brunt of this disease. And the disproportionate death rate now. The action plan in place, they are by a well considered plan earlier this month, the prison in los angeles in the federal prison here, what is in Southern California the percentage of infected prisoners was 70 . And protect the workers. The roundtable is an effort to call attention to this and other issues. I want to thank our guests who are on the front lines of the struggle to achieve justice for those who are in prison. I look forward to hearing what they have to say. I will now introduce todays guest. David patton has been executive director and attorney in chief of the federal defenders of new york since july of 2011. The federal defenders as well as the public defenders practicing all levels in court across the country have been on the front line of protecting the rights of individuals incarcerated during this crisis. Andrea james is the founder and executive director of the National Council on incarcerated women and works directly with persons impacted by the outbreak of covid19 in our jails and prisons. The daughter of thomas paul finger was a prisoner at low tuna camping anthony, texas, she is a psychologist currently living in los angeles but grew up in el paso and will share what her father has experienced and what she is experiencing during this crisis. We welcome our guests and thank them for participating in todays roundtable. I will ask our guests to share her perspective with us. Mister patton, you may begin. Hope you will summarize your comments in five minutes so we will have time for questions. Mister patton. Thank you so much for convening todays roundtable. As you are aware, Public Health experts sounding the alarm about the humanitarian disaster. Incarcerated people live, eat and breathe together by the dozens in unsanitary spaces. It is the opposite of social distancing. The rate of infection in the bureau of prisons facility, 59 people have now died, federal prison names have become shorthand for tragedy. In ohio, 9 people have died and in North Carolina eight people have died. Terminal island in california eight have died and there are many others, those numbers dont include the many who sit here today who are hospitalized and on ventilators. The only responsible way to deal with this crisis is to identify people who pose an extremely low risk of any danger to the community and get them out. It can be done responsibly, consistent with Public Health but despite the extraordinary rates of infection and mounting death toll the department of justice and bureau of prisons are putting up roadblocks at every turn. They would like the public to think they are doing something. They issue memos and press releases when people like Paul Manafort or Michael Cohen are released but out of the public spotlight where the vast majority of people are doing nothing, they are actively opposing review on Vulnerable People on compassionate release. Going around the country explaining things are under control. They never mention it is testing a tiny fraction of the people incarcerated. Federal prosecutors have policies and procedures. And the court order medical inspection found jails and prisons engaged in, quote, systemic failure. My federal defender colleagues and i attempt to get people out, see the intransigence and cruelty and we are not the only ones. Federal judges have referred to doj and these policies as an outrage, illogical, unfathomable, shocking. There using those descriptors because two month into the crisis they do not have any sense of urgency or releasing Vulnerable People. They have moved less than 2 of the prison population into homes, its website, 111 increase in home confinement. That really shows how paltry they used home confinement. They are taking the battle to resist released to the appeals court. They are appealing judges improved condition. Members of the committee, i thank you for your effort passing the euros act, you feel the same way we in the trenches feel. That the crisis has become more than dry concepts, it is about basic human decency. They have taken action long before march 2, 08, and his death, eight month president pregnant when she gave birth to her child on a ventilator before she died on april 20 eighth. It would be an immediate call to action and for doj and dop it wasnt and they were unwilling to do the right thing it is essential Congress Give judges broader tools to release Vulnerable People. Their recognizing the need to act. We recognize you following suit. Miss james . You are right ahead. Yes . Yes. We can hear you. Thank you very much for inviting us again to participate, we are the National Council membership organization, who are formally incarcerated and i state that again, we are on the front line and directly in contact still. And we are juggling calls a day, they do not understand why they dont let their elderly or ill Family Members come home. We have been inundated with countless stories that their pattern scores have gone from low to high for no reason making them in eligible for release under attorney general directives, received countless emails saying women are being quarantined in spaces that are not designed for visiting rooms and even in a kitchen. Im tired of reading statistics like danbury prison of 159 reviewed for home confinement. Only 21 have been given permission to go home. I am tired of the work we have to do to determine whether they have been released. Regardless what congress has legislated and the attorney general has directed, they decided to make it nearly impossible for elderly and desperately ill people to get compassionate release and go home. At danbury, staff started out by refusing to consider people for release, if their pattern score is low rather than minimal when ag William Barrs table directive clarified people who were ranked low were intelligible, staff unilaterally increased without notice, to prevent people qualifying. Staff at fmc told a group of women they would be released to home confinement but they needed to leave the Drug Recovery program to enter quarantined before release. Successful completion subtract a full year off of that. The causal selfreported change in doj policy, completed 50 a sentence could be released to home confinement. They need to reapply, and they receive daily reports of the women of confusion and changing policy, and the criteria changes hourly. I have a printout of requirements, that was posted at 8 am and they change by 11 am. 50 of time must be done. One of our the members of the National Council was navan it it is a grave concern, they are participating in our depth. One of the most important programs. They start out free from drug use. They updated us today. It was parsed into covid19. They serve more time than they otherwise would have if the program continued in some form. They were extended by the number of months the program was caused. In addition to this, the staff, fci violated the cares act, by not allowing incarcerated women to make free video falls, they couldnt figure out how to make these calls free and were not going to comply by william barr making the policy by lockdowns necessitated by the coronavirus. The release request from those at high risk of serious covid19 complications who meet the attorney generals criterion and another case manager would only make one copy of the lease request. The human toll of these cavalier policies is enormous. Lisa crowe who is only 43 years old has stage iv Breast Cancer and been given 12 months to live. She cannot dress or wash herself, and it is confined to a wheelchair when she has enough energy to get up at all. After much advocacy the warden agreed to home confinement but the Regional Office would not approve release so she could go home to die with her family. The reason given to a woman who is bedridden who can barely speak because of a metastasized lump in her throat as she might start trafficking oxycontin during her last months on this earth. This is not an over soto question of release request falling through the cracks. Miss crowe has many advocates including danny davis who made inquiries into her case. They are actively refusing to release a diet one. We received an update today that she is struggling not to strangle in her saliva. There are three ways enclosing a person could get barely released. One is a transfer to home confinement under the elderly Prisoner Program for those who meet the criteria. Another is release under the attorney generals march 20 sixth and april 3rd directive and compassionate release by court order. Under the first step back the person may have release based on extraordinary and compelling circumstances after exhausting his or her administrative remedies. The statute is awkwardly written but appears to mandate a person petitioned the warden and if no answer is received after 30 days the person can file a motion for release. Of the warden denies the request within 30 days the person has to go through the administrative appeals process which could take months. People who are vulnerable to covid19 cannot wait 30 days especially if the answer yes or no means no more waiting, means more waiting. Of the warden agrees, the release still has to be approved by advocates of the bop. If the warden says no, and administrative appeal is required. Between 2014 and 2018, 81 people died. That is before covid19 struck. One crucial step in saving incarcerated people who are vulnerable to covid19 would be to remove the exhaustion requirement for the first step back to. Senator schatz and durbin introduced a rate to streamline the compassionate release process, granting compassionate release, extraordinary and compelling. Well continue to be phone call from the families from the women themselves and will continue to do all we can to provide them with the support they need, notwithstanding our overstretched staffing capacity and budget but we need help. Congress can help to fix this and we believe congress has a moral responsibility to do so. Thank you again for this opportunity. Thank you very much. Angela caldwell. Thank you. This start hitting the united states, people started asking with them go to school, whether the offices would be shut down, whether they would lose their jobs. My chemistry asking whether we believe our father. My dads name is thomas and hes incarcerated at the latino prison camp just outside of my home town of el paso, texas. Its a minimal security facility with mostly elderly nonviolent firsttime offenders. There isnt even a fence around the campus. The inmates are low risk for recidivism otherwise there would not qualify for this care. These men are not hardened criminals. They pose no danger to public. Theyve made mistakes and are trying to pay the debt to society quietly and honorably. My dad is 67 and has been diagnosed with advanced coronary artery disease. He suffers from high Blood Pressure and hypertension. According to the cdc, this places him in the highest risk group for dying from covid. In late march he suffered his fourth heart attack and was denied appropriate medical care. When he asked the medical staff to protect him them from covidy on, they laughed at him and sent him back to his cell. My father was identified almost two months ago as high risk for contracting the virus. Two months ago this government acknowledged that my father has a target on his back. It was greeted at the attorney generals directive, the warden told his men that none of them would be getting out of his prison, and if they died it would be their own fault for committing a crime in the first place. My father applied for a transfer to home confinement immediately after the attorney generals directive on march 29. Two weeks later he signed his transfer papers. My mother was contacted by Prison Administration and her home was determined suitable for home confinement. We started to breathe. A week later on april 20 my fathers transfer was denied. Apparently there was a new requirement that he had to have served 50 of the sentence. And because of that arbitrary threshold that is nothing to do with covid19, because of this betrayal, my fathers hopes for protection from his government were shattered. My family was devastated. My mother stopped sleeping. On april 29 we requested a compassionate release, and on april 30 we restarted the request for home confinement. This time our efforts initially appeared to be successful. Two days later my father signed his transfer papers again. A few days after that my mother passed another home inspection, and we could breathe again. My father was coming home. Where we could protect them from the virus that is in the vop. But this past monday, four days ago, my father received notice that his compassion relief was denied because the prison was using other means to protect his safety. But the next day, tuesday, we got word his transfer transfere confinement had been denied again. Thats three denials. As of this would not admit my father was a perfect conduct record and is a model prisoner has been placed in solitary confinement twice in the last two months. However, both times he was not charged with a violation. His record remains spotless. But both times happen to be on the same day that i arranged interviews between him and the washington post. Both times the warden placed a 67yearold man with a with a serious heart condition and a roach infested cell to block him from speaking to the press. And my family got to go to bed that night with visions of my father lying on a prison floor clutching at his chest. My father has been begging the bop for safety for two months, and we have been denied three times. But others have been released. So what are the rules . If you are famous you get released. If youre from a prison thats already killed many of its inmates because of the outbreak you get released. At if this discussion results in my fathers release, then what does that mean . That your daughter has to appear in front of congress for you to be treated like a human being . What does any for the other inmates who are victims of unconscionable abuses whose families cannot week for them . Im here because of my privilege. Im here because im white, educated. But most important, in the case of love tuna because i speak english. You see, ill pass is a border town. Most of inmates at la tuna fire from American Families who dont look like families in the rest of the country. In el paso many American Families only speak spanish. Where i grew up you better be valid or you may not be able to order dinner. What do these families do . How do they protect their fathers from a a covid outbrean prison if they cant even read the website . The answer is its not their jobs. I shouldnt be here. It is not the job of the families to protect the incarcerated. That is job of the bop. These men and women were given prison sentences. Thats the deal. The bop is not entitled to subject them to for the punishment and there certainly not entitled to subject them. Either to expose the cruelty and defeat of the bop. Be of the claims are following the guidance of the cdc and acting especially to protect incarcerated from the virus. It hasnt helped my dad in two months. Ten guards at his prison are telling inmates that they tested positive for the virus at a nearby hospital. 20 inmates with covid symptoms have been hidden away in solitary confinement and la tuna continues to refuse testing. The bop is lying to the public and they are lying to you. They have no interest in saving lives. They are killing our Family Members and emotionally torturing us. Please hold them accountable. Thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing your story and other guests that is spoken at this roundtable, thank you. Thank you much for your time. Were not going to open the floor for questions. As i mentioned in the beginning in the interest of i ask that all members to limit themselves to one or two questions. I do have a little bell that i would bring it to go beyond five minutes, but with respect to everyone, we went every member to have a chance to ask questions. We are going to start with the chairman who i know is a statement as well as his time for questions. Thank you very much. I do have a statement before the questions. It is critical that members of this committee gathered today to meet virtually instead of in person to discuss urgent matter of covid19 in our country prisons and jails. Many members have worked diligently to bring attention to this issue, to engage in oversight of the administrations terrible response and action. The response of the administration has been an adequate, not releasing as you heard, not releasing nonviolent prisoners congress is given the authority to release. Persons his life in danger could not have proper social distancing in prison. Not providing personal protective equipment to staff. All of this threatens the lives of the precious, the lives of the staff, threatens people in the kennedy because the prisons become the result is high rate of death and infection in and around the prison. This will only get worse if the bureau of prisons and Department Justice continues on this terrible course. The committee has engaged in oversight concerning this issue of the federal, state and local level. Folks in my district am i taken a interest in a disturbing situation at metropolitan texas center in brooklyn and Metropolitan Correctional Center in manhattan, both federal prisons. The outbreak on inmates and staff at rikers island. I especially to recognize the efforts of the Congressional Black Caucus and his leadership of karen bass in focusing on this issue and Holding Virtual town halls to discuss it, what of which included the participation of our speaker nancy pelosi. Ive also work with breakfast in the vascular capacity of the subcommittee to write repeatedly to the Justice Department on several occasions urging aggressive action with respect to prisoners held in the bureau of prisons and detainees held by the marshal service. Attorney general and for julie has been slow to act. We have heard some of our witnesses, the been quite perverse. Not taking necessary action to an appropriate degree granted to the dj under the care act which was enacted in march. The fact staring into this authority has been and physical changes resulting heartache to families of prisoners who are vulnerable to covid19. Thats why include Additional Authority in the heroes act to address the situation of federal prisons include Emergency Community supervision act to direct the release of vulnerable prisoners who do not pose a risk of harming others to community supervision. This and other changes in federal law such as expansion of elderly during this emergency treatment. The heroes act includes the correctional facility Emergency Response act to help address this crisis in state and local prisons and jails. This bill would utilize grant funding, incentivize the recent particularly bumble prisoners without risk of harming others. We have acted lets continue to be vigilant and conduct oversight of what is going on in our prisons and jails across the united states. As weve heard from our guests today, the course of action by the bureau of prisons, by various people working there, the wardens, the attorney general has not only been an adequate, it is been contrary to the will of congress, congress to the intent of the loss we passed and apparently very deliberately endangering the lives of inmates, of prisoners. I would add staff, people live in the vicinity of the prison. Im glad we heard from our guests. I had a couple of questions. Mr. Patton, and october last you testified before the crimes subcommittee and detailed the conditions of prisoners endured at the Detention Center in brooklyn in early 2019 because of the lack of heating during the coldest part of that year. During the hearing that bop director at the time assured us that the bop had implemented systems to ensure there were better prepared to handle emergencies. A lot has happened since that testimony and were now in the middle of a pandemic. Has anything changed since the time you testified before last october . Have made improvements in how the been handling the current emergency . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Unfortunately, the condition at those facilities from your go make those conditions look like child state of, the Living Conditions right now for our clients are awful. They are locked down for enormous periods of time. The conditions are completely unsanitary. They live in constant fear that theyre going to contract a deadly disease and they have gotten, we heard such compelling testimony from ms. Caldwell about her father. I wish that was the exception, but its really the rule. People are told one thing. They get their hopes up. They hear public pronouncements from the bop ntj, they take well, surely help is on the way, people are going to do the right thing. And then there told that they qualify for some sort of relief and the families get their hopes up, only the next day to have bop change its mind and john locke back down in yourself and sometimes for days at a time. The conditions at the facilities are terrible. They are vermin infested. People are crowded by the dozens in the housing units. They sleep in bunks that are just a few feet apart, and you could have 50, 70 people and housing unit sharing maybe one or two working toilets, or sinks or showers. Its just built for contagion. People live in constant fear, not to mention dean shot off from the rest of the world. There is no social or legal visitation. They are very limited means to commit it with the outside world, whether its by phone or email. Its extremely limited right now. Now. So its just an awful, awful place to be. Thank you. I had one question for ms. Caldwell, lme express my concern and sympathy to the situation of your father. As you know, bop, your appraiser reports the number of prisoners infected with covid19 on its website. Has your father shared with you any of the views of those insight as to whether those numbers are accurate . Was at the wood bop is publicly depicted the situation as i could . In other words, did the report reflect what your father knows is going on over there . Weekly reports for my father can you make . Yes. Sorry. We heard reports for my father that ten of the Correctional Officers have tested positively for covid, but not at the prison to get tested at a nearby hospital. As for the prisoners there is no information to none of those pressures have been tested by the reporting high numbers of covid symptoms. Thank you. I yield back, madam chair. Thank you, mr. Nadler. Out of deference to my colleagues i will hold my questions until the end. Ms. Jackson lee. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you to our chair for this committee and the subcommittee for this roundtable, which i believe is extremely important. Let me very briefly put some numbers in the record that obviously need updating but it shows in comparison of the devastation that are inmates are facing. In april, late april, 620 federal inmates and 357 bop staff confirmed positive result of covid19 nationwide. And as indicated, over about 50 plus have died. As a comparison in the state of texas, 44,000 approximate were tested, and 2455 were found to be positive of covid19. And in our juvenile facilities which have found theres been very limited testing, 70 of incarcerated youth are nonviolent but a number of them have found to be covid19 positive. So i want to raise the question of how these facilities are really petri dishes and really are devastating for individuals who are, in fact, human beings. That is the real question is why i was motivated to push for the testing of the Harris County jail where about 770 were tested and 300 were positive. I want to raise the question, and first of all safety ms. Caldwell how heinous and action that has occurred to both your family and your father. Very quickly, i want to try to understand the regional construct which means it inmates cannot depend upon decisions being made by the warden when it another oversight intervenes and denies a human being under also evidence but cures act or would you comment on that . Then i would appreciate my second question is for ms. James and mr. Patton, to talk about the undermining of the patent score which seems to change over and over again, the pattern score which are my perspectives to be addressed legislatively along with the issue of exhaustion of remedy. Ms. Caldwell, i would appreciate, thank you very much. I apologize. Can you please repeat the question for me . The question was, i understand that your father was approved by the warden and im sorry for these terrible conditions that youre living in, or he was living in. And then was ultimately overruled by the Regional Office. Can you explain what that does the families when you cannot rely upon a consistent decisionmaking that impacts families so devastatingly . The impact that it has on us, i wish there was a stronger word then devastating. We cant sleep. We are in a constant state of vigilance. We hear, i think mr. Patton with describing we hear good news from the warden and we get are hopes up and then we get a denial and didnt hear good news from the warden and to make it a denial. Its crushing us. Im sure its crossing and become a member that goes through that. We thought he was coming home so that we could protect him, and then the third denial came and we are completely at im sorry. We are at a loss. We dont know who to trust if we dont know if they can trust our own government we dont know if we can trust the warden. We dont trust anyone. Thank you, thank you. Ms. James or mr. Patton, on the issue of the pattern changing continuously and the negative impact . Im happy to address that. I know ms. James knows it well also. Frank, i know chair bass and chairman nadler know this issue they will because they have written to the director about it, for those who dont know, pattern is a Risk Assessment scoring system that his brain and, frankly, seems like its still in some sort of evolving department, although theres not very much transparency behind it. So theres a lot we dont know. But what we do know, consistent with our fears when it was developed, is that it has incredibly racially disparate impact. The scoring system purports to place people in various risk categories, and they are now using that as part of their home confinement transferring criteria. Its not what the tool was meant or designed to do. Its not even clear that pattern is useful or effective for the purpose for which it was actually designed. But now they are using it for this entirely different purpose. Saying that only people who score at a minimum level will be considered a priority for home detention. I mean, we know that similarly situated black males will only fall into the that category, of the time as compared to 30 of white men. So its problematic in many ways. We could hold an entire hearing just on the use of pattern for any number of reasons, much less using it during a crisis like this, just entirely inappropriate. Thank you. Yes, good afternoon. I want to again join my colleagues in thinking our guests. The information that were hearing today is simply devastating. We have been working on this issue for obama and believe well continue to do so. Ms. Caldwell, every story that ive heard has just been unbelievable, but you said the warden had approved your fathers release being assigned at home, but yet a Regional Group disapprove. What did the Regional Office see that the warden who is there every day did not see or failed to see . Its my understanding that actually was not the Regional Office that denied his transfer. It was the central office, the d. C. Office that denied him transfer. We actually just learn the reason this morning, and the reason was he had not served 50 of the sins. Okay. What did they say that about the extenuating circumstances of your fathers health . We understand that. There was no mention of that, okay, all right. Thank you so very much. Ms. James and mr. Patton, you both just kind of talked about the reapplying the confusing inconsistent changing policies, which is quite very disturbing and understand theres a scoring system, but ms. James, if the criteria changes, it seems like every other day or every week, is there a new scoring system, or are they just making the rules of dependent on who is at work that day . It would appear, congresswoman that is exactly what is happening. The criteria is changing based on the reports were receiving directly from the women inside on a consistent, regular and consistent basis, and sometimes two times in the same day. So they are confused in terms of what the criteria is. There are confused in terms of how to win they can apply for release, and its just completely arbitrary, based on what we are hearing from women who are reporting out. Okay. Thank you so much. The sake of my colleagues i would yield back, madam chair, thank you. Absolute, thank you. Ms. Mcbath. I didnt want to get such a heartfelt thanks to each of the panelists that here he with use red table and special to you, his coworker my heart goes out to you and it just really sickened by what we hearing today. On may 1 attorney general barr purchase made in a q a on twitter. And in response to questions from our colleagues, congressman bobby rush come attorney general barr said the department of justice make sure releases to home confinement would be using, there would be using authority under the first step act. An additional releases to home confinement after Congress Tools in the care sector attorney general barr said, quote, we have been using that discretion aggressively it right now we have just short of 5000 in home confinement and we have another 1000 in the pipeline, and we are processing them very quickly. And we do not put out people who are violent offenders or sexual offenders, in court. I know ag barr has authorized some home confinement, but there are many more individuals including those in covid19 high risk groups that are still not, that are still in our federal prisons. That includes not only incarcerated individuals but also those are working in the prisons and then they go home to the families, out into the committee. 196 federal prison staff have tested positive with the covid19 so far, and as stay home orders are relaxed, or lifted, though Staff Members are likely to be out in their communities more and more, sometimes possibly without even knowing that they are infected. In the cares act has just passed with bipartisan support, in the house and the city, and we actually authorized 100 million to address the health care concern for our prison population. Ms. James, from your conversations with incarcerated people, which you talked about today, what have you learned about how that money is being spent for the protection of both the inmates and the staff . I can speak to the concerns that we have about the consistency, particularly of people who are terminally ill and very ill and have clearly compromised immune systems, particularly at the medical prison were consistently women are not now since covid19 receiving medication, lifesaving medication such as chemotherapy treatment, dialysis, things that are literally necessary on a daily basis for the health and wellbeing of these women. And report after report daily we are receiving a thing saying these women are not getting the same level of medical attention or their chemotherapy or other treatments consistently on the schedules that they were accustomed to and were necessary. In addition to that, congresswoman, in an effort to create some spacing that is literally impossible, federal prisons have taken women who are in lower custody such as federal prison camps and they have moved them into higher secure prisons such as fbi. As a result of that if women had medications that were allowed in the prison camps that are no longer allowed behind the more secure walls, the fci, and things that are necessary to facilitate breathing and so forth. So these Health Conditions of being exacerbated by the poor handling that the gop is doing to try and handle covid19, when we could be creating a social distancing that is necessary by moving through these other three phases that weve outlined that could be happening right now by the bureau of prisons to free up space in the federal bureau of prisons. Thank you very much. Madam chair, just another moment . Go ahead. Thank you so much. Ms. Caldwell, what ppe for cleaning supply seven given to your father and the staff that he and ask with, including staff and Corrections Officers . Im not sure i have all the information for you. I can tell you what my dad has told us. The two things that ive been told that they are wearing masks, that they get distributed masks once a week. The other thing is they have painted a red line on their beds to notate weatherhead should go. Thank you very much. I really appreciated and i yield back the balance of item. Hopefully youll have a chance to play that a little later. Chairman jeffries. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you, madam chair, for convening as, and also chairman nadler, for your leadership. Want to thank all of the guests who are participating in this form as well for the information that you provided in such a coverage of an compelling fashion. The conditions that have been described at this forum are unacceptable, unconscionable and unamerican. The constitution prohibits any american from being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. No prison sentence should be a death sentence. But for far too many incarcerated individuals who have died as result of being infected by covid19, that is already the case. That is shameful. So i thank you, madam chair, the honorable karen bass, for convening as and for your steadfast advocacy. Mr. Patton, the attorney general indicated that he is going to encourage the bureau of prisons to release medically Vulnerable People, and get the bop has placed as far as the numbers i can tell less than 3000 people on home confinement since late march, despite congress and the cares act giving them ample authority to do. Can you explain why the numbers have been so acceptably low. Thank you, mr. Jeffries. I wish i could explain it. I have been really quite honestly ive been shocked by how callous the response has been, and the lack of urgency. I just want to note that the numbers you just put out, less than 3000, is, in fact, the more accurate number. Ms. Mcbath mentioned attorney general barr tweet about 5000 people being in home confinement. Thats the total number of people in home confinement, thats not the number of people they have moved into home confinement because of covid19. So that was a very misleading tweet on his part. I wish i could explain it. Here in brooklyn, we had an instance of a vietnam veteran with all sorts of medical issues who was in on a very lowlevel drug offense, and we had to pound the table for weeks and weeks and weeks to try to get them to do something. They continually denied. Eventually we prevailed, so thats one of these less than 3000 people. Its not as though doj is simply come those 3000 people are people that they willingly identified and cut out. It was after weeks and weeks of advocacy. And then when it finally did come a dump to out of the building. Yet a place to stay in philadelphia. They dumped out of the building nearly admit that even though we asked them please tell us when youre going to release him so we can get this guy home and do it safely. Theres just a level, im how else to state, of callousness and cruelty behind his policies and practices that truly quite shocking. The inhumanity that seems to be on display by some folks within the bureau of prisons should shock the conscience of every single american. Just to place the numbers briefly into context, there are about 175,000 or so people currently incarcerated within the federal system, is that right . Thats correct. The vast majority of those individuals are nonviolent drug offenders or nonviolent offenders, is that correct . Thats correct. Clearly over 100,000 individuals fall into the category of being nonviolent and perhaps not presenting our risk to society, where they released. Then you have thousands of other individuals who are elderly and not a danger to society, and then you also thousands of individuals presumably suffering from preexisting conditions that present a higher degree of risk factor, should they be afflicted with covid19. The bureau of prisons needs to do a better job, because what youve done so far is shameful and im also thankful for the leadership of ted lieu in calling for Inspector Generals investigation into what appears to be a disparate policy of treating trends of the Administration One way, and Everyday Americans a different way. So thank you, david, for leadership. I also want to thank andrea james in Andrea Koppel for your advocacy and for your compelling presentations today. Madam chair, i yield back. Thank you very much, mr. Chai rman. Mr. Cecily. Thank you, madam chair. Id like to begin by thanking you and chairman nadler and are calling chairman jeffries for your heroic leadership on this really critical issue. Thank you to is james for your extraordinary work. Thank you ms. Caldwell for your courage and will institution are very painful story but what youve experienced as a family, and, of course, thank you mr. Patton for being a defender of liberty and for being with us today. I think like my colleague, hearing the stories about the condition conditions in which inmates are finding themselves is appalling, and the notion that has, as chairman shall the second individuals who are in custody are facing the very real prospect of contracting a deadly virus is something that no one on this committee, no one in the country should find acceptable. I have a mother who is copd and she lives with my dad. She is add. Im terrified that she would get this virus. I cant imagine what families like, what this is something we have responsible to shine a light on and thats what the purpose of this roundtable this. My question is, mr. Patton, i received a very disturbing email from a Family Member of someone in otis bell about just a horrible experience in which just like ms. Caldwell, they were told a bunch of Different Things can people were put into some sort of confinement where they were told there to stay for number of days, almost 14 witn the prison facility before the release at that release was changed and the return back to the facility. The family having no information about what was happening, whos making the decision, was ten is applying out and they would count all about prisons. Is not enough so, virtually no hand sanitizer. Theres no program to what can telephoned or computers. Im just wondering, do you have any sense, mr. Patton, about whether or not there is any compliant in a meaningful way for basic cdc guidance . No, there is not. And i know that because there are numerous lawsuits around the country, including here in new york city, in which judges having Court Ordered medical inspection. Here in new york city, the former chief medical officer of new york citys Correctional Health system inspected those facilities, and he used words like alarm and systemic failure. And he ticked off, i believe it was more than 20 basic failings of the sort that youre describing, and others. So whats not, you dont have to take my word for it. Real medical experts who have been on the inside and reviewed these places are shocked. In fact, some of that litigation they describe the bureau of prisons exhibiting deliberate indifference which is as you will know some of our question is, what more can congress do in addition to oversight . Should we contemplate trying to develop a standard that says that takes away discretion isis if you have less than x about a time it understands, if it is this you must be released . If you are determined to have preexisting condition. Is it to give the courts more discretion . Because relying on the bureau of prisons to be the moving part seems to be absurd. What can we do to protect the lives of individuals who are in custody or under sentence and to bring some peace of mind for the Family Members and loved ones that we as the government will take our responsibility to keep them safe seriously . I think the provision in the heroes act strike exactly the balance that youre talking about, that do, in fact, recognize the doj and pupae are not doing other own accord and doesnt require the release of certain gullible people, acknowledging that there are going to be some people where theyre going to be Public Safety consideration and maybe they wont be released. Were realistic about this, but i think the provisions in the heroes act are a terrific first step. Into so much. With that, madam chair, i yield back. Thank you. Mr. Lieu. Thank you chairwoman bass for leadership on this issue. I want to thank chairman nadler for his leadership on the full committee and thank you to the witnesses for a powerful testimony today. Mr. Patton can you mention in your opening remarks Terminal Island prison. As you know thats a facility in Southern California that has approximately a 70 infection rate of covid19, and at least eight inmates have died. There are numerous other persons as you noted that have similar High Pressure rates with inmates die. Thats one reason that we wrote a letter to the bureau of prisons asking to release all inmates in home confinement and to come up with a plan for the of the facilities and his wife congressman jeffries and i wrote a letter to Inspector General asking to investigate the bureau of prisons and department of justice is an adequate response to the covid19 outbreaks. My question still you have to do with the Legal Standard for cruel and unusual punishment. As you know the first prong to that, its objective standards where there was a substantial risk of serious harm to inmates. So let me ask you, if the prison has approximately 70 of inmates having been affected with a lifethreatening virus, and eight inmates already having died, would you say that the process substantial risk of serious harm to the inmates . Well, given the environments that were talking about, it certainly does. I dont think theres any question. When you combine that level of infection with the living arrangement in the facilities, the constant close social contact and the lack of appropriate sanitation, that standard is clearly met. And if its not its hard to imagine. Thank you. In your earlier testimony he used the word calais to describe the actions and views of the department of justice and federal bureau of prisons. When you got Terminal Island facility with 70 of inmates being infected, and begin eight having already died, would you say the actions of the department of justice or the federal bureau of prisons could be the liberally indifference to the risk posed to present . Unfortunately yes. I think we would all like to believe that responsible officials at a place like the department of Justice Justice in the name of it would act anymore responsible way. But the fact is they just are not. Thank you for your answers, because they established cruel and unusual punishment. I think its one reason why a federal judge in ohio recently found that prisoners are made a cruel and unusual punishment claim had a high likelihood of succeeding on the merits and he ordered the prison officials essentially to release inmates to home confinement. So thank you for your work and for advocacy. I believe the department of justice everyday now is engaged in cruel and unusual punishment, violated the constitution and it is completely unacceptable. My last question is to ms. Caldwell. Thank you for your powerful testimony. I just want to confirm that you stated the federal bureau of prisons denied home confinement because they said your father had not served more than 50 5f his sentence, is that correct . That is my understanding, yes. I simply know that Paul Manafort did not serve more than 50 of the sentence, yet he was released by attorney general bill barr. Paul manafort happens to be a former Campaign Manager of donald trump and as a print of the president. That is disparate treatment and is my hope the attorney general not only looks at it this case but also investigate your fathers case. With that i will yield back. Thank you, mr. Lieu. Ms. Dean. Thank you chairwoman bass. Thank you, chairman nadler, for convening this very important and extraordinary troubling roundtable. I thank you to the experts and advocates, and ms. Caldwell also very, very much for your extraordinary strength of stories and your champion nature for your father. I believe you will be successful and it should not take coming i pray you be successful and showed that they coming to us to just reveal the extraordinary inhumanity within the system that seems baked in and covered over. It seems unbreakable, but it is breakable. I introduced and so i would like some reflection on whether you think this is a good idea. I introduced a campaign piece of legislation to the cares act, emergency excuse me, the grace act that was introduced in the senate. I have introduced a companion in the house that would allow the breaking through of the system and would allow for the inmates to petition directly to federal courts, and workplace requirements on the bureau of prisons. Would you, in your anecdotal very sad story, ms. Caldwell, leave the fact and of relief would be helpful to you and your family . 100 , absolutely, that woud be helpful to my family. Weve been spending the past two months trying to figure out a route to the sentencing judge. I cant say that would be helpful for every family. Some of the sentencing judges are not as kind. Ms. James, would you have a comment on the grace act . Yes, congresswoman, absolutely. The streamlining of compassionate release process would be incredibly helpful. We know that, again, the standard for granting compassion relief is very high. Its an extraordinary and compelling, the exhaustion requirement makes compassionate relief essentially unobtainable, and so we need the grace act to streamline the process. And i think it is aptly named, because sometimes you just have to apply grace. You have to rise above the inhumanity and the socalled justice, and as shakespeare said, offer grace. I hope we will be successful in getting that pastor mr. Patton, david, do you have an opinion on that . Im well aware of the grace i can you work and were grateful to you for it. It would be huge step forward if we could get it back. Im worried, mr. Patton, about folks in the Justice System or coming into the Justice System, and access to public defenders. Are we finding that folks are struggling to have representation as a result of this pandemic . Its an enormous challenge. You have 170,000 plus people incarcerated. Any of them, their cases of long been over. They dont have an active return on their case. Their attorney may be long gone, may be retired, may be no longer practice. So i know that my colleagues and myself around the country are making enormous efforts to identify people who need assistance, but its a huge undertaking. Groups like families against mandatory minimums and the National Association of criminal defense lawyers and others are really pitching in with take pro bono efforts to try to identify them, but its a big challeng. And i hear my time has expired. Ms. James, some point i would love to connect with you regarding pennsylvania prison for women. We are actively engaged in i it. Ms. Mucarselpowell. Thank you so much, chairwoman bass, chairman nadler, for having this conversation. We had been now for weeks on our calls from the Democratic Caucus talking about how covid19 has really shown the inequity in our communities, and where we seem huge rise in cases has been in prisons, in Nursing Homes and immunities of color. We need to first of all, i agree wholeheartedly with what my colleague, mr. Jeffries, said earlier. Every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, and we have the right and responsibility to do that. I want to commend angela, your story really struck a a chord,d im so grateful that youre here with us today because people need to hear from Family Members. Your father is in a low security prison, first offender, 65 years old. He should be at home, home confinement. Thats not only the moral thing to do but its the right thing to do for the safety of our community. We have a serious pandemic right now in the united states, and having state safe policies is e right thing to do for the safety of our community. I want to bring attention to a state correctional system, here in my district. Its a state run womens prison but theyve really felt the severe impact of covid19. There are now 231 inmates, 35 of the facility population has tested positive. Over 300 are in clunking and actually over 20 Staff Members have tested positive. And even knowing that culminating was a threat they did not start in permitting any measures and tell they had 73 inmates who it already tested positive. I want to start with my first question with andrea, if you can send you imagine the womens prison. What do you think, reducing, what of unique challenges that the womens correctional institutions face during the covid19 pandemic, and what do you recommend that we need to do to protect these women at these facilities . Certainly we are very concerned about there being no special attention provided her elderly women with coverlets ce and insistence, and pregnant women. Weve already seen and weve been morning still the unnecessary death of andrea and there are countless women, lisa crowe right now who were fighting to get out of cause well, she is dying, literally dying of stage four cancer. She has metastasize. She has a lump in her throat. She is choking on her own saliva as we speak, and we still cannot get her out. And there are many reasons that we dont Pay Attention that land women in general. Most of it is a tribute to sexual violence, untreated, the illness of addiction, and these are things that will never ever because of the culture of incarceration be effectively addressed by prison environment. Particularly women who are struggling from sexual trauma. We need to change some of the things were doing in terms of who we are using incarceration for, and particularly pay special attention to the reasons why the studies that weve done at the National Council to demonstrate why women land on a prison bunk and all the work would integrate alternatives to that, they keep women in their commutes. I will and i sang 85 of the constant women are mothers. Their mothers of children under the age of 18. Their separation from their children has caused further harm. We have to do a better job in this country and figure out ways to really begin to stop incarcerating people for things that people [inaudible] should not be imprisoned for. My colleagues and and i reay been pushing the Top Administration to protect the people that have been incarcerated in federal prisons and actually val demings and myself, we signed and sent a letter directly to attorney general william barr demanding answers about the particles in place and the resources that are been given to the federal facilities in florida. But, of course, we have not received any response. You can imagine, andrea, as youre mentioning her necking and responses. They are even blocking responses to us, embers of congress. In my district we also have a federal correctional facility that houses over 1000 inmates. Ive been receiving calls that inmates and Staff Members still do not have the proper ppe, even when theyre transferring some of these incarcerated individuals to a hospital, when they need care, theyre not given the proper ppe. I know that is putting the safety of our commuters at stake. I give this question to david, andrea, angela, whoever wants to answer it. How do you think this is affecting the health and safety of our communities when we are not protecting those people that are in our federal prisons by providing that equipment, everybody necessary sanitation measures . I would ask that if you guys would respond, you respond quickly were out of time. I will just say very quickly when you have a hotbed of infection, there are not walled off from society. You have dozens and hundreds of step in and out of those facilities every single day. Whats going on in those facilities in fact, the community at large. They do so much. Thank you very much. Mr. Cohen. And my muted . And my video and. Yes. We can see you and hear your. Thank you, chairwoman bass, for holding this shooting. Its all important. I have a letter from a lady who study might disagree she some lenore cid sid and it was abour husband a long way from me. Hes 73 and had a heart transplant due to cardiomyopathy, and he was 69 at the time. Hes now 73. He said some serious medical conditions and vulnerable, and use of over half his time and get he hasnt been released. Hes up in lexington, kentucky, i believe. It just seems like this is so depend on whether youre a friend of the president trumps or not. I guess mr. Pratt might be the right person to ask. How many people at Michael Cohens prison and manaforts prison have been diagnosed with covid19 . I dont have those numbers in front of me. Im afraid i can pull them up and probably have been to you before we finish this hearing. I have read thoroughly about this, that they were nobody, no covid19 at Paul Manaforts and i do think cowans was in in a different and they cut out. Manafort was unfit to proceed. In the of the percentage of people got out when that that met the criteria of the 2 more time served . I dont, but is not a large number for sure. I think its a very small number. One thing i want us to be careful about, when we say there are no i understand the point youre making which is a very good one, that there seems to be disparate treatment going on here, and i think that is surely the case, but i but i would bey hesitant to say theres insistently without covid19. They are intentionally not testing. Testing numbers are miniscule, and so even at facilities with our no positive tests, its very likely it is rampant. There was a case i read about also i think in california, and is a man who i think died in prison from getting covid19, and he was there for a dui, maybe a multiple, and he didnt have a drivers license. But nevertheless, he was in prison and article i read on the said everybody basically in a cellblock had tested positive. So the tested enough there to know the most of the people and the facility in california had covid, he was there for dui, multiple, i dont know, i just saw dui, and not having thats no reason to send someone to death. Thats what the debugging people in their in cruel and inhuman as congressman jeffries made clear. It is is also the name of due process. Thats the kind of negligence that damages should be you cant do anything [inaudible] this is the same bureau of prisons that couldnt guard Jeffrey Epstein got the most vulnerable suspect, inmate in the country, and they let two new guys go to sleep, have would follow up on it and let him commit suicide, allegedly. They havent found out who helped him commit suicide inside the bureau of prisons. With that i thank you for testament. So sorry about your situation, is caldwell. This administration is heartless, and they dont care about justice, fairness or equity. People going there with a certain age and service time should be released. Compassionate release should get them all out, people over certain age or with certain medical conditions. With that i yield back the balance of my time. Thank you very much, mr. Cohen, and want to thank our guests today for participating in the roundtable. When we had the discussion about testing whether there is testing or not as david was describing, its consistent with the administrations policies and magical thinking in the sense you wont find covid if you dont test your. Like what angela described and each of you described examples of that and basically they just described their being misunderstanding. I havent heard of any of the facilities that actually are performing okay and i wondered if you had any examples of where the prisons and individual facility was actually performing in a good way, either testing, early release, et cetera, if you could give any examples, and then andrea, youve mentioned several times the woman who has metastatic cancer and its almost as if you didnt describe any treatment or health care she had at all, that they just decided shes on hospice and theyre letting her die. I was wondering if youd respond to that and ask you if each of you would respond and well use those as closing comments. Want to start with miss james. Certainly, congresswoman. Thank you. Lisa is dying and lots of advocacy from lots of groups shes received. Were just getting regular updates. She was we anticipated that she would be released and she has been receiving chemotherapy. Shes also one of the people that we have heard that the level of receiving chemotherapy and the timing of that has been altered since covid19 like many, many reports coming out of the medical prison at koswell, and so, were concerned. Were just holding on. Holding our breath, hoping for the best for her, that she will be allowed to be with her family during her last days. It is that critical. And so, i also just wanted to point out in terms of your other part of your question quickly, we havent heard of actual entire prisons that are doing a better job, but we do every now and then get letters like this one here that came in today from the women in dublin who are talking about individual case managers, who are being compassionate. Most of the reports, too many reports are coming in that case managers are being dismissive and that are ignoring them and not going out to provide them with care, but we do, congresswoman, hear every now and then that there are case managers, individuals who are working very hard to do everything that they can to at least assist the women in filing their paper work and hearing and learning about whatever they can to get released. Thank you very much. Angela. I didnt prepare closing comments. Oh, your thoughts . I have some. As im listening and im heartened to hear about some of the efforts that many of you have put forward and i know that theres a larger discussion about how we need to do more. I dont like that. I think do more is vague. I think there should be specific action. I think i want, as a citizen, as a normal regular Family Member, i want you to open a massive investigation. I want you to press criminal charges against the official of the bop, this is not this is intentional cruelty. I want specific actions to hold them accountable. Thank you very much. David patton before you answer, i also wanted to know if you have any history of working with the staff or the guards . Because this problem is impacting them, obviously. So i wanted to know what the relationship was there. It is impacting them, youre exactly right. And they themselves have been quite vocal and active. There have been osha complaints and we hear directly from Corrections Officers who have many of the same concerns that we do. This is impacting everybody in the system. Ill close by saying this, the covid19 issues are going to be with us for quite some time. This isnt just disappearing as we move toward reopening society, whatever steps we go through. And also, that the response has been off. It is not too late to save an awful lot of lives. An awful lot of lives because there are somewhere between 50 and 60,000 people. Were going to leave this recorded program. Reminder quickly, you can see this and other problems anytime on cspan2. Org. Were going to congressman james clyburn, expected to talk about the protests across the nation and the death of george floyd. Its a shame that t
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