Retired physician and essayist rated and this is a first book in fall of the nearly 30 year quest to from her lineage. They call it roots for a new generation rated thank you so much for being with us. Bettye i am very happy to be part of this program. Host most of us consider an bill of rights, what did you think of what were you told about him going up. Bettye like everybody else was, as you said, is an important figure. In American History. But i was also told that he was my great great great grandfather. Through his relationship with one of his slave cooks. Her name was karine. So i thought he was my ancestor. Host soybeans remember you come from african slaves and a president. What is coming to you as a child. Bettye to me it sets clear expectations. It was intended to be a form of inspiration. I was reminded in my Family History and that also i have slaves in my Family History who worked as well. So there was a lot to live up to. What was expected of me. Host so you had stories from your families. Both had been slated for each generation going back to the african woman who was kidnapped from her home country and brought to the united states. But this tradition of the graz and the feminine pretty tell us a little bit about that tradition in your family. Bettye southern tradition goes back thousands of years. Probably before the birth of christ. And they were women who maintained entire cultures in the history of those cultures. That was its value. Im sure is still going on today. Primarily, the tradition of oral history. Host so this oral cultural history throughout your family and your mother, she told the story to some others. There was a slide presentation that she gave two organizations in the 1980s. Union rather, your black medicines lecture circuit. And in effect, she added this role to you. When she gave you the box as you call it in the book. It was in the box. Bettye in the box was all kinds of things. Death certificates, birth certificates, marriage licenses, lots of photographs. They were made of amazing and stitching, its a very fancy sort of way of embellishing. There were slaves sentence. Newspaper articles right anything that could be gathered up and put together. Between families. Host so what does it mean to you to receive this box. Bettye basic responsibility rated my mother had warned me, but this was someday going to be my responsibility to take care of this box. And its contents to be responsible for making sure the stories can indict. I will pass on through generations. Citizens, i was sort of orderable overwhelmed and not sure really how i should handle it. The story contributes to my concern and that is that my mother whoops the one who actually created the box. Before the time, my grandfather, greatgrandfather and those documents and had the family bible. But my grandmother posted. And he was absolutely devastated. So i didnt know if i can try to make sure that that didnt happen again. The husband way or should i tell these stories to as many people who are interested. So i decided on the letter. Because there were so many important things in their brain and stories around those things. Theres so important. They werent just my family stories. There were stories of slave people in these people rep. Other africanamericans. They had a message of persistence and love and i thought it was important to share. Host i want to hear a little bit more. This set you on this path of discovery. Many miles covered pretty many obstacles and a lot of emotional traits lets say. Your mother, she has had a reference for medicine family. Gave her pride and meaning a strength. For what been a really hard life. I would love love to hear some of your feelings of what it meant to give. You had more ambivalence to this interconnectedness to the family. Bettye i did. Im stuck in the 60s. So, during that civil war the black movement and reportedly, the movements. So i felt my sense was to sort of take on more uncomfortable size not try to hide them. Try to talk about them in on. Which was very different from the way my mother looked at it. She was very proud of being a descendent of present medicine. And i think in some ways, reassured. Some ways by having Something Special in her familys background. This is part from those who were experiencing the really difficult parts of being black in america. Host she grew up during jim crow. Very strict. And just to reiterate people if they have questions, for doctor Bettye Kearse pretty you can type them into the q a section at the bottom of the screen and we will try to get to them. You relating to hitting these things head on. This begins with this woman got kidnapped a teenager and purchased by James Madison senior. He assaulted her she bore his child karine. And james junior who became president. So this is not only raped but theres incest in the attempt. This was so courageous of you to have this conversation with your mother. Can you talk a little bit about that conversation a little bit. Speech out pretty wild. I was sitting on the floor with a bunch of papers around me. I was thinking did she really recognize what this was. So i called her up and he said, you know the princeton madison was a rapist. And she said really. And i said yes. So she was quite uncomfortable with that term. And her term, she burned was visiting. Host 20 think about for her temperament like that. Speedo liberty or to listen to me. Host im interested in the dynamic. It was just not being able to define Historical Records by your own family, the history they carried with them. In a way you work batting at a sacred cow. Bettye and i was a first take of the bat. Not my mother, my grandfather actually passed down the stories. My mother explained to her what it meant and when my mother go to someone else, they were very uncomfortable and her term, she burned was visiting. Host 20 think about for her to talk about what actually happened. And she refused to talk about it and they were angry. To be approached with those kind of questions. Host so you however were going to get at the unvarnished truth. And then gone unchallenged it. James madison officially did not have any children with his wife. The famous dog medicine. She was a widow and had a son when they married. The story your family tells a generation and details parts of their lives and the lives of james and karine son jim it was sold off as a teenager and la searching. Can you give us a little we know its complicated and its like were talking about. But a sense of what you heard about his life. Bettye about him. Host his life i am interested in. Bettye jim was madison and karine son. At about the time he was born, another person came to live with them. And dolly assigned to be his wetnurse. So the story goes that she put jim on one breast and the babys name is victoria and put her on the other breast and they were together. So over the years, they became very good friends. And when they were in their teens, they fell in love with each other. And dolly promptly sold jim. Any never saw his mother or father for victoria again. Host that is a heartbreaking story. One of many. So when you decided you were going to try to find these unvaccinated an unreported would happen to jump into 1992. He made your first of many many trips there. Madisons family on tatian. Our historic site. To portugal and africa. And like so many people who are dependent from celebs, whose lives were considered not important enough a lot of trails quit cold. But there were some real breakthrough moment for you. Would you care to share any of those. Bettye in terms of finding jim. Host in terms of what you discovered along the way. Theres so many mazes that you had to go through to find out more about your family. Bettye was certainly difficult. Often families who are separat separated. Which is what happened to jim. Its kind tried very difficult to find out who to jim. Where exactly he had gone. The trope sort of picks up with the sun, emmanuel. So there is documentation of him. Does out of his name but we know we was because who owned him. So he was owned by jeff, was famous in tennessee and famous later in texas when they moved there. So we hope to trace back from emmanuel to jim. But we didnt quite do it. When my cousins when is a week. There are three of us who are actually doing Research Together but one unfortunately past. My cousin shaun, 1830 sleep 183s another man who named shadrach medicine. So for a number of reasons we believe that shadrach, actually could have been jim. So not that is what i am trying to do is to verify that shadrach was jim. He was born in virginia about the same time, they lived in the same place, originally owned by the same family, and his unusual name, this unusual first name and then when they were freed, the chosen in madison. Host which speaks to, always remember you are a madison. Thank you for writing this important book. What are your thoughts regarding those who are trying to rewrite the narrative around slavery. And taken from the school is rebooked entirely. Bettye they are deniers. I guess in some ways, not unlike my my laura did not want to talk about the things like that. This is part of American History. It happened. Its a very important part. This country would not have been but it is without millions of slaves who did the work to make it here. Host that comes across so clearly in this book, the role of dependency on slavery. Not just institutions but an emotional support. You went to portugal, you research the origin of the slave trade. In a twisted moral curve that was adopted to rationalize business which was very profitable. And then to ghana and nigeria. Why take on these physical and emotional expenses. What did they add to your sense of the family story. Bettye for me, he helped me to understand william. I grew up in the very solid middleclass, very protected environment. So we didnt have any idea of what my ancestors had gone through. I just felt like i was losing part of myself so i went looking for them. I look for mandy and all of the places the named. A look for karine. And it literally walked in her footsteps. Just a profound experience. And in so doing, i got an inkling, just an inkling, of what my ancestors had gone through and how they helped their grandsons how they helped shaped. I learned a lot about their incredible enter strength. Their sense of balance. Their sense of hope. And values. Those values that the passed down to all of the descendents. His true for every slight family not just mine. Host if you have questions for doctor Bettye Kearse. Down the bottom of your screen ill be happy to get as many of them as possible. So you just threw yourself and all of the way to be the family person try to understand that the inhumanity that landed mandy into the u. S. The interest due and owing. But also to confirm the family and the stories that you had heard. Nudges through historically records but also dna and enlisted the help of doctor bruce jackson. Bettye yes. Host you approach the national descendents about authenticating or authenticating their families dna. When did that they do. Bettye doctor jackson emphasized again and again, be careful with the genealogy. Because if you compare your dna to the real person, they can say, see i told you. Youre not related. So the national, they identified one man who had the appropriate genealogy and who initially was willing to participate and compare the standing. And what happened was that shortly after that, it was a big article about that research and Washington Post. And he didnt want to get involved in the will cause. So back off. So i have been interested and i feel more and more ethnicity in a and the truth that other africanamericans have. Thats not really what is important. Host i found that fascinating. Would it matter to you if you did get proof that you were descended from James Madison. Or that you were not. You came to a really interesting place with that. I would love to hear a little bit more about that. Bettye if i didnt get proof, it would be great for my book. But it is about much more than marketing. As i was saying, it is really about understanding who you are. And what your values are. Honoring and respecting and knowing that you inherited a lot of the strength that you have an opportunity to contribute just as much as they did. To this country. So in his about knowing who you are. Host another question. Doctor Bettye Kearse, do you have any role, or what faith or religion played in the life of your ancestors. How is it all is the faith formed your own view of life. Bettye my enslaved ancestors and strong visions. As most of slaves did. It helped form sensitive community. An important component to our values. In those beliefs were passed down to all of us. Including myself. Its an important part of might delete life and since knowing him. Host another question. Have you been and touch with other families. And amy asleep the sally henry family. Tell me more about that pretty. Bettye on two occasions actually, one was at the university of virginia. I cant remember exactly many years ago but there was some and posey him on slavery in the university. I was on a Panel Discussion with descendents of james monroe. And thomas jefferson. In descendents of others. And then later, last year, i was on another panel. And that one, was the descendents of monroe, jefferson, and washington. Cs i have met them. They stayed in contact. Host you have built so many relationships in this journey. The road with people who work in many others. This is the most elite of elite americans. Student of the enlightenment and preserving the sacred fire of liberty. So at the very foundation of americans. And it is also the men came up with a political compromise to count enslaved africans as racist humans. So much to flush out the people that are in your enslaved descendent line. Honey make sense of these contradictions in James Madison or does it even matter who he was. Bettye it doesnt matter who he was rain thats really a good question. As a tough on. I think it does matter. It is hard to balance out his thoughts and actions. It would be great if he had freed slaves. And lived up to his ideals. But he did not read he did not cite a single slave. Sorry cut you off. Bettye George Washington freed the slaves. His own. He did not free largely but he did free some slaves. And thomas jefferson, freed slaves who are probably more direct descendents. James madison, did not free single slave. His slave billy, he went with him to philadelphia. Any contract medicine sold to a northerner. Knowing that eventually are presuming anyway eventually he would be worried. A mustread. But medicine himself not. So he like epperson all them, they live this strange dichotomy of having all of the ideals lofty ordeals. But not truly being able to live up to them. I think it probably said well, that is the way we do things here. And didnt really want to flush out the wrong senate. They knew it was wrong but as far as acting on it, they didnt. Host what positive or negative reactions have you received from your post. Bettye so far,. [laughter]. Only had positive reactions re read. Host im guessing there will be some controversy. Some people are still refusing the accounts for sally henry family. I was mentioning building relationships and you mentioned speaking out workshops there. Reexamining historical narratives and how they are formed and who is included. There is a real history in those events wants to contextualize how you remember. Whether it is the story. I arrived at thirst time, i will able to see it excavation site in the south kitchen. They were looking for the truth. They were trying to learn who they were, what they did how they played a role in James Madisons life. What their contributions or to the country they were already doing that for. They are my friends they have always been really interested in mysore because they they want the whole story where other slaves are listed as included in exhibits which is all from james mattis. Adding to it is something i feel all americans should be, because it puts the role of slaves in perspective. It talks about their role, how it was in the constitution, the fact that they were people and not just commodities, i would like to say there are just a few slaves but there are millions of individuals. Mount pelee or encourages you to see that. Reporter theres what includes in the picture of American History . Reporter the whole story. [laughter] the mark of the slaves there. Host question from jenns amazing i love the book. Your message what its like to be black in america what would you like people and women in particular to take with him or story . Speech it women in particular . What would you like people and women in particular to take away from her story . Guest as i was writing this book i could not have imagined a black woman reading this book and seeing slaves and would hope they would pass down those same qualities, they would tell their own children of the qualities. There is a chapter in the book, that is the chapter that is about rape. One specific message i wanted to convey with this, it could happen in any setting. One setting was within marriage. I did want to portray that to all women, marriage is not necessarily, theres always the possibility of being abused. Host theres a lot of readers to dig into about the sexualization of africanamerican women. Guest thats its own chapter. Because little girls growing up, there is a likelihood that they could be raped and there is nothing that their mothers could do about it. Host is a question from charlotte, when i think of the racial lives within the system i what if the enter within the families could be part of healing i dont think having a partner should be celebrated but having the common denial of humanity that is even shockingly present among us could be subverted by descendents coming together as a family . Your thoughts . Guest that was a long question. Host yes a long question but a really good question. That it disappeared so i cannot. Reporter it. The interconnectedness is part of the healing instead of the dividing of the way we think of history. The binary way i hope im not putting in words in someones mouth. Guest within families . Host it came by fast the miracle the moderator came back up. I think of the divide that sometimes wonder if the interconnectedness of families can be part of the healing. I dont of course suggests the abuse and taking vulnerability women and partner should be celebrated but wonder if the denial of common humanity that is even now shockingly present among us, can be subverted by descendents coming together as a family. Terrific question. Guest its okay to work in outreach besides ive had the pleasure she is a descendent of madison. Shes a great person. She has shared with me that shes glad she is my cousin. She views the history the same way, she believes we should all come together and look at the whole truth of our family background. And, recognize the healing of coming together this could bring. How do you feel about president madison now . Is it any different than before your research . Guest i am allowing myself to be angry with him. Yes. Its only different and when i have clarity on that. Because he knew it was wrong, yet he used one of his slave women. The other thing that he didnt do, he did not prevent dolly from selling a gym. So i lost that connection to an ancestor that i want to know. So i am allowing myself to be disappointed in him as well. See when theres so many stories people can look forward to one of the slice poisoning his master, the grit and fortitude for newly emancipated slaves to establish themselves, your great grandfather max rowland and armed riots in cedar creek in 1889 over the right to vote. And of course so much more about the journey that you go on to find all of those things out. Im wondering, before we close, there are so many nays left out of the official record of your family, are there any nays you want to put out there and share with us tonight all the people listening . Guest the first they may want to put out his mandate. She was the first, and my First Americans african ancestor in america. We talked about jim, mentioned immanuel one of jims sons. And they had a ton of children. They were fortunate most of them were able to stay together. There were some who were died or were sold off. But in that family, that generation, my greatgrandfather mack and his brother shelby and childs and young and james and john and i can go on and name all eight of them. My beloved grandfather and the rest of the family. It was a wonderful family. Host thank you so much we appreciate you sharing part of that story with us tonight. We just got a lovely note from connie graff to you just mentioned. She says this is a real story im proud to be bettye cousin i would love to see her and her other madison descendents and i to come together at montpelier and talk about our history. I will never be mad at you. So all is resolved in that part of the world anyway. I want to thank you so much bettye for joining us tonight, its a real pleasure. Guest thank you for having me. Host thank you so much for tuning in tonight we will be airing an edited version with this talk on Second Thought on may 15 in the virtual authors talk series about her new novel asked again, yes. That is on tuesday may the 12th and Stephanie Vander on may try first to talk about her new memoir called striper you can see a full video and watch video of our other virtual author events at atlanta history center. Com. Thank you again bettye a real pleasure. Here are some of the current nonfiction books according to the washington first glennon doors memoir untamed after that is the splendid and the buyer turned violent eric larson study of Winston Churchills leadership to the london blitz and then David Allen Sibley has the life of birds followed by charlie illustrated fight bulls. And repping up the look at some of the bestselling nonfiction books according to the Washington Post is Hidden Valley road. A profile of the Galvin Family which consisted of 12 children half of whom were diagnosed with schizophrenia. Some of these authors have a paradigm book tv and you can watch them online booktv. Org. The president from Public Affairs available now in paperback and ebook. Presents biographies of every president , organized by the ranking by noted historians from best to worst. And features perspectives into the lives of our nations chief executives and leadership styles. Visit our website, cspan. Org the president to learn more about each president and historian feature. In order your copy today wherever books and ebooks are sold. Tonight at 8 30 p. M. Eastern bestselling thriller writer david talks about his writing career and books on indepth. Watch book tv on cspan2. My name is kain late march am a hit historian at the museum i am interviewing doctor Kate Landdeck about her book the women with silver wings. Guest thank you for having me