Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jamie Metzl Hacking Darwin 20240713

Baldaci talks about his books on in depth. Watch this memorial day weekend on cspan2. It is my pleasure to invite you to this special event with an allstar cast of meetings and amazing brainpower. One of my favorite authors in the world, jamie metzl. On behalf of the university and our host at think spot, it is my honor and privilege to welcome you to this global event celebrating the release of the highly revised which means if you have gotten the hardback, by this one too because there are some changes. A highly acclaimed and bestselling book, hacking darwin genetic engineering and the future of humanity. Until recently a successful book launch involved 100 people, maybe a few more, some hors doeuvres, a little bit of bad wine but now you can your favorite food from your refrigerator, your beverage of choice and this is a lot better and this is also being carried by cspan, so welcome everybody from cspan as well. These are unprecedented times. There is also promise in these times. This is a time you can move things, a moment when things can be shaped for ill or for good. We are focused on the book. We found in four weeks of telework that it stopped being a social distance. We galvanize the Global Community and created more social interaction and closeness even at this geographic distance and we are galvanize to our times, a community of big thinkers and one of the biggest thinkers of the mall is the person we have come to celebrate tonight to join in the global conversation. We are concerned with covid19 but we are looking at it through the prism of our mission which is working with friends and allies to shape the future. Looking at the contest between democracy and hypocrisy, looking at the us role in the world, looking at the future of the global system, looking importantly at climate change, migration, resilience factors and how do we Harness Technology for good . That is important with our newly launched geotech center. In addition to being an Atlantic Council senior fellow and jamie metzl has a lot of titles but this is the most important. Atlantic Council Senior column has done a few other things as well. He is a leading technology and healthcare futurists, geopolitical expert, Science Fiction novelist, Founding Member of exponential medicine and a member of the human genome project. Last year he was appointed to the World Health Organization Advisory Committee on human genome that it. Jamie metzl served with the National Security council, state department and Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the United Nations in cambodia. Sometimes i think he has done so many things there must be 3 or 4. I tried to keep up with bicycle riding and some other things and it hasnt worked. He is also a regular commentator on cnn and other major media. Hacking darwin genetic engineering and the future of humanity is jamies fifth book and since it came back in hardback last year the reviews of been stellar. In pr says, quote, jamie metzl writes with great clarity and sense of urgency that we should all take to heart. Nature says jamie metzl has a knack for clarifying scientific and moral complexities, and seeing the big picture. Cnns send a group to send, quote, if you can only read one book on the future of our species, if you read five books read all of them. If you havent already read hacking darwin genetic engineering and the future of humanity, you should. If you dont want to read it at least buy it. This is my tip for you. You have a deal right now that you are not going to get another time. Here you go. I dont get a cut of this. Sourcebooks is making jamie metzl ebook available today, only for 4. 95, a third of the regular price, 4. 95. Before asking jamie metzl to speak i want to tell you about this and introduce the other special guests. After jamie metzl speaks for 10 minutes he will invite George Church to do the same. George is one of the worlds greatest scientists. His backdrop is not live. It is a safe backdrop. George is professor of genetics at Harvard Medical School and professor of Health Science and technology at harvard and Massachusetts Institute of technology, director of the department of Energy Technology center and director of the National Institutes of health center, leads the Synthetic Biology license where he oversees the directed evolution of molecules, polymers and whole genomes to create new tools with applications and Regenerative Medicine and bio production chemicals. In 1984 he developed the first direct genome sequencing method which resulted in the first genome sequence which he helped initiate the human genome project in 1984 and the personal genome project in 2005. It is a delight to have you with us. After george speaks, debora spar will talk about what she has heard and ask the first question for jamie metzl and george to answer. Deborah is another superstar, the former president of barnyard university, shes now professor at Harvard Business school and senior associate dean of Harvard Business school online. Her new book, work made mary love, how change shapes our human destiny, will be released in august. After that, daniel kraft will moderate questions and answers based on questions raised by you. Anyone can pose a question and the ones that are uploaded the most will rise to the top. We encourage you to post questions throughout the session. The stanford and harvard physician scientist, inventor, entrepreneur and innovator, chair of medicine for Singularity University and the founder and chair of exponential medicine, a program that explores rapidly developing technology and the potential for biomedicine and healthcare. With that, what an incredible lineup. Start thinking about your questions. Passing to jamie metzl to kick this off. Thank you so much. It is an incredible honor for you to be here. This is my dream team. I dont know whether it is lebron or whoever but if you imagine a team from everyone on earth i would like to have joining me in any event like this. Thank you, thank you also to a great cohost, at Singularity University, and i happen to be one. And a crazy moment and we are all dealing with this sense of sadness and morning, because there are very real and meaningful people and things being lost. Im in new york city at the center of it but theres a lot of pain but we are also feeling there is a new world on so many levels being created. Trends that were already happening are accelerating in profound and incredible ways and new communities are forming and these days for everybody it is hard differentiate days because so many things are happening, new types of collaborations are happening. This is an like a snow day or big storm where we just wait it out in the snow gets plowed in the sun comes out and we go back, this is really a fundamental change in my view in how we live and in our history and the history of everything, not just our science but our community and societies and worlds. I have one leg in the world of National Security and geopolitics and a lot of people reference 2001, the year of the 9 11 attacks but to me it feels more like a 1941 the year where there was a huge battle ahead and it wasnt clear whether the battle is going to be won but even in those early dark days of the war there were people, leaders like fdr and churchill who came together and said we need to know what we are fighting for and then we can organize around building that world. We may not have an fdr or churchill right now in our political world. Something really exciting about this moment is it feels like we are dividing up the task, we are all coming together and everybody has a little piece of fdr and we are doing things our governments in other times might have done like provide support, provide hope, provide encouragement, that is really incredible because yes, we have a virus that is supercharged, so many humans and we are so mobile but the networks we are using to address this crisis, the speed of globalization, and many others, daniel has a hub for the whole medical community. Everyone is forming and reforming communities looking at new ways to solve these problems in the Scientific Community george is a central hub so the genome assistant others who are coming together and say how do we Work Together to solve this problem . We are seeing an intersection, the genetics revolution among the billions of species that live and have ever lived are one species has this ability to read, write and hack code of life. Than one species, almost a godlike power, imagine our gods having, we are starting to have those powers but to quote spiderman, with that power comes great responsibility, to make sure that our most cherished ethics guiding application of our most powerful technologies. The genetics raising forward on 3 primary areas, predictive healthcare, humans where a massive mega data set. It came a time the sophistication of tools, and developing incredible technologies, not treated individually but their own biology and after birth, or even before birth, thats going to change the way we think about healthcare but not just healthcare. We think about genetics, we think about in the context, that is our primary interaction. We dont have a disease genome, we have human genomes, the potential to be the range of possibilities so we are figuring genetics, with consumer genetics, it gets much bigger and is going to touch tougher, more challenging issues like identity, like parenting and the most profound application will be how these technologies change not just the way we do this and shift toward embryo screening, another book coming out in august but also it will change and over time the nature of what we make. A very profound conversation and feel like a conversation about science and we dont need to be having the conversation but ultimately the conversation about ethics because all technology, it has a built in value system. Its up to us to infuse our values, the most significant application of those technologies. Since the newest version of hacking darwin genetic engineering and the future of humanity came out last april, i had limited experience with crisper babies who were born but we know there are three of these genome edited babies, there might be more, we dont know. After that experience the World Health Organization created an International Advisory community on human genome editing. I was honored to be chosen as one of the 18 members of that commission. We are working extremely hard on what might be framework or how to think about how we can apply these technologies in ways that maximize benefit and minimize harm. Other members of the commission are here in this meeting. I was honored to speak at the vatican about these issues and people from the vatican are participating. My view is this is about the future of our species and we need a table that is big enough for everybody from religious conservatives in various backgrounds, trans humanists, we are all human and all in this together. This trend of the genetics revolution is intersecting with the coronavirus crisis. We have these pandemics in the past, we were never able to sequence viral genomes within two weeks, we have never been able to have a digital readout of the code and understand the virus we were facing, we never had computer models that allow us to test the response. Weve never been able to develop testing despite the monumental screwup in this country, weve never been able to develop a diagnostic test this quickly. And viral genome intake as it spreads around the world critically important. And at Harvard Business school,. And to carry out the genetic patterns, and increased resistance. A smart decision, developing vaccines, maybe we can do it in a year, i was talking to very senior, smart scientists in los angeles, he didnt know if we could ever achieve george is on this call, george the scientist, developing Surveillance Systems in them last passage. The incredible science that we have the science comes with very significant ethical challenge, every technology could be abused. The onus is on us to figure out how to optimize the benefit before the harm. That will be hard enough. We live in an abstract world where we could make the smartest decisions possible. We live in a world, i write about this in the book, defined by the political context in which we live. We see that in the political failures, the first 3 weeks of this outbreak to get on top of this crisis, the failure in the United States, tests to have adequate information that could be provided to the american people. There is a failure over decades to build a World Health Organization that would resource and empower the mandate to do the job every human on earth would want to do. And then the science exists in the context of global power structure, and everybody, everybody around the world, the way we havent done since but. Enters understanding science is not just something for professors. Everybody needs to understand the science, not just so we can understand the world around us, but so that we can make smart decisions to protect the people who we love. That is the origin of hacking darwin genetic engineering and the future of humanity. 23 years ago i was working on the National Security council, my than by the now good friend on the call, richard clark, he was telling everyone who would listen, fighting all kinds of internal bias saying we have to focus on terrorism. That is one little thing. The memo was on george w. Bush always used to say to be effective you have to look around the corner. You have to see what is coming and that means this conversation. It is not just this virus, not just coronavirus, not just deadly pathogens. It is a whole suite of things and we arent organized to address them around states and the International Organizations that are controlled, the power to do what needs to be done. What the book is trying to do is put all those pieces together in a package for everybody. I am a Science Fiction writer. This is the greatest story of all time. It is the story of the past, present and future of our species. In this revised paperback, the full story of how john kwai, more and deadly pathogens, before the coronavirus happened but to understand there is a package of things people need to understand, we have a lot of good books in each of these categories. I hope they read the book and talk about it over dinner. I spoke about it with senior scientists at the national lab and seventh and eighth greeters, everybody gets that these issues are human issues. There is a political guide. And government officials whether they do it. Has an author we write a book once you deliver it, everybody else, whatever the digital equipment is, ripping out pages, whatever it is, as fred said, practically giving it away, the official price is 4. 75, the amazon price until midnight today is Something Like 3. 57. As daniel will now, nobody in history other than john grisham and three other people, to share ideas. And to hunker down in moments like this and focus on things that are right in front of us but the world is changing in a fundamental way, and take a step back and see what is going to allow us to develop together our northstar, where we are heading and evaluate the little decisions we make along the way based on the goal of what we are hoping to do. If there is anybody who sees the big picture of science and what science has the potential to be and implications of that, such an honor for me to have all the people who are speakers but george is special lands most people believe he is among the greatest living scientists, he certainly is among the most creative and forward thinking scientist, not everybodys trying to resuscitate the woolly mammoth and people have said he is todays Charles Darwin and in case you had any doubts he grew a beard to look like it. It could be coincidence but you judge for yourself. So george, as we discussed, we would love you to share your thoughts on how these incredible tools of the genetics information in your view best be used to address the Current Crisis or beyond, over to you. Thanks. It is truly an amazing time. We need to embrace the threat and we have to think about the Silver Lining, remarkable things that are going out, we are seeing lower impact of any of to and all the things in addition to this horrifying one. The commitment to have preventive medicine, we are seeing more from sars and ebola but finally got it right and finally, elaborating. So we see that from being under fire and diagnostics of those diagnostics could have saved us 2 trillion, spending on the order of tens of millions of dollars per year, the boost we could get going forward. We do that proactively. On the topic of hacking darwin genetic engineering and the future of humanity and Synthetic Biology, we need to think of biology as a broad term, we are engineering life it is far from our ancestors. We are part of nature but innocent clues like insulin and vaccines, therapy and diagnosed 6 the we are on right now, in therapy. It doesnt mean they are bad. On the contrary, the help that we have the right now. It is about that. It would take six decades in the program but what we are seeing right now in covid19 is something that goes much faster. So what are we doing about Synthetic Biology described more broadly, and and on the order of eight things. And we start with therapies and vaccines, those may take 18 months to deliver, possibly more. That is very fast compared to most new drugs that take a decade but frustratingly slow for those who were locked down. In the therapy category are things like neutralizing antibodies. They are now being adapted. We know what receptors are being found. Small molecules, they are adapted and many are approved for Clinical Trials so the reuse is faster. Vaccines, one of the things you have already got, 40 different vaccines in the pipelines injected into volunteers, thanks to all medical volunteers, in the front line, injected through their patients. Take a moment to thank them. The vaccines arent tested even though they have been tested on related organisms or viruses, a phenomenon where the antibodies make it possible for the virus to infect cells, this allows them to go to the immune system. We need to be cognizant for vaccines thinking about what could happen next. This is one indication or one immune problem or the next coronavirus that came from nowhere. We are developing organ life systems for testing new therapies and may be better than doing it on humans. That the therapy of categories that may take months to deliver but something we do immediately and could illuminate the problem to flatten the curve rather than 18 months, the way we interact with ourselves in the environment. This included masks. Every time we see another person outside getting close to the 6foot limit they should have a mask on, whenever we go to a grocery store, how well we are queuing up for example. That is a talented document how well youre making progress on this. We are developing rapid home testing rapid centralized tests. They can happen. Some of them happen in five minutes and some can handle more samples and more accurately, variations. There are two things, viruses and serological reactions, to go back into the workplace, to be 0 positive and virus negative, virus negativity, detect small number of viruses and seropositive you want the false positive, you can look like you have antibodies, you want to specific tests and you start hearing more and more positive tests, keep that in mind. All of the vaccines and therapies and diagnostics have to be tested, one of these cohorts is the human genome project weve been working on since 2005 and this is like wikipedia. Anybody can participate in a data. It is not sideload and it is a moment for that kind of projects. We need to have diagnostics that are not just where we have to struggle, we lost a month in the United States shuffling around. It is not clear theres high enough activity. There needs to be something looking in advance of all the things, respiratory distress and the drug resistance. In addition to the custom aspects we need a more general one. That is my list of what we can do and what we are doing in projects all over the world. Wonderful to see it when being shared. One last thing is further off but getting some attention, a way to make resistant viruses, it is not going to solve our problem. The next couple weeks, a very interesting thing. I look forward to the conversation that is coming up soon. Thank you, you have given us a ton to think about. Let me get things going by trying to pull this together a little bit and asking one question and turn it over to daniel. I agree with what you say. Everyone in the world needs to understand the work people in georgia are doing is crucial, science matters and we need to do that the best we can. Reproductive technologies are driving this change. And fundamentally changing the nature of conception and life. I am less sanguine than you in general but particularly less sanguine about what is going to come out of this moment. People are taking over from government, lacking in fdr at the moment people are providing hope, support and the other thing governments provide Like Research funding and economic stability funds and infrastructure and concern for in equity and inequality and all of these technologies need some set of guidelines, some Financial Support and concern for who is getting access and who is not. Who is surviving the coronavirus and who is dying disproportionately. Where do the rules for this brave new world come from . Can we as people create them ourselves . That is not what happened in 1941. Or do we need to rely on our political system to create the rule that is about to be followed. A great great question. I 100 believe in government. We need a functioning government and we are suffering, because of the total systemic and systematic failure of our government and it is a tragedy that the country is doing really well, korea, taiwan in singapore, all their Top Public Health officials here because the autoimmune response inside our system starting when Ronald Reagan says government is in the solution, government is the problem. If there was ever a time we needed a functioning government in the United States it is now. I wasnt at all suggesting we dont need government. We are having a crisis of governance on multiple levels. If our government is failing, our failed federal government in many ways, some incredible people are Holding Things together at still great agencies like the cdc and fda. It would be better if we had in fdr but we dont. We all need to step up, to play a role most people go on with their lives. They dont think it is up to them to provide a hypothetical outbreak, that is why i pay taxes. What we are seeing is you dont adequately fund them and insult them and berate them, no big deal until there is a fire and then you have a big problem. We need governance. In the absence of the kind of government we need we need to come together to make that happen and the same is true at a global level, not coincidental theres a total mismatch between the Global Nature of the problem we face in the way we are organized to face them and that is how we solve issues, not just deadly pathogens which are the ultimate transnational agents but climate change, destruction a oceans, all kinds of things because we live in a world the last few hundred years, the balance of power state model was inherently unstable, brilliant people like teenagers and, John Maynard Keynes in a different kind of world where we pull the nationalism and sovereignty and identities but what we saw, the countries werent willing to give these organizations the ability that one needs to be done, with all kinds of shortcomings. What i am working on now, i drafted on and put out in the world, we have a Big Community working on this. We have seen this virus which is showing how connected we are and we are putting up walls, they are prevaricating each other. The virus that affects everybody, how can we Work Together to solve the problem . This is a transitional moment. If we dont come to this realization that governments matter, on every level, individuals alone cant do it. Having said that i am encouraged by what i have seen the last few weeks of new and incredible communities. Over to me. Thanks, everybody. We live in this exponential time. Never heard the word exponential used so many times. Your theme is hacking darwin genetic engineering and the future of humanity, you have been hacking biology. If hacking the future prevention, diagnostics and response to future pandemics and responding to those that might emerge. It is turned into a dna vaccine, what is possible through pandemic response. It is remarkable how fast we can reunite dna. The real bottleneck is no longer reading and writing, it is the testing to make sure we dont jump ahead of safety and efficacy. We have that lined up but we can now read and write on the order of a month. It is somewhere between 12 months. Going back to the government issue it is not just, i agree is not just government, the cost of come down largely due to innovation. And governmentfunded or not. A lot of it was funded by industry and i think that will happen again. We need Good Governance of our company and our nation and i think that is particularly clear. I would just add you are a great person to answer this question. You are so thoughtful about this. In addition to all the progress we are going to make, as exponential is anywhere. When you think about how long it took to go from the bronze age to the iron age and things that used to take thousands of years, the paper came out in 2012, we are in a world where science is moving at warp speed. I want to talk not just about the science but the superstructure around the science, global institutions and i put out a piece last week on this on my website. Why dont we have a super empowered agency, maybe part of the un index substantial threats where we get the smartest people in the world, the top six or twee 7 fundamental threats we are facing a deadly pathogens would be one of the men deadly pathogens, which almost certainly is, quote, naturally occurring but a few years ago in alberta, smallpox, cost 100, 000, so this science is democratizing, 99. 99 are the good guys like george, they have access to these technologies and if you want to be disruptive now is a good example where you can say this is a good strategy for doing it. Why dont we have a un agency that empowered a resource, it is your job to identify the six or twee 7 most x essential threats to the world and to humans and to develop a smart, thoughtful, dynamic action plan for what we need to do to bring the world together. We can imagine how we would have a responsive system the wind allow everything to break down as is happening now but imagine rather than this virus if there had been a Nuclear Detonation in two different cities we would be having the same call, new york and some other place, dont want to jinx anybody. We would have the same call. How can we live with Nuclear Weapons in the hands of bad guys. They could be wiped out, say theres an ocean collapse, the Great National geographic score on the call working to save our ocean. Imagine an ecosystem collapse. We have had the same call. How we think about the group of problems, theres a longterm approach. The top voted one this. The newest assertions made by what fundamentally changed, what are the human relationships the change in the aftermath of this pandemic. How do we collaborate and do science . It already changed. Confidence that keep things proprietary or listening, how they make competing products, whether it is academic or in some cases home and corporate. The internet is becoming a nicer place, less poorly make an ideological. It is still there but there is a lot of 1999 going on in the internet but in the science part we are going to have a real boost to the kind of surveillance. We dont need the multinational thing, we know what the biggest essential x essential threats are. What we need is creative Sustainable Business models where we get everybody excited about having something on their phone in addition to having six cameras on their phone having a few sequencers on their phone as well if that is affordable and i agree with debora spar about equity, we need equitable distribution of these technologies. I think that is going to wouldnt it be great to have a bio weather map, to see on national and International Scale when things move down, where things are moving, the drug resistances are, that is impacting our lives and is going to be hopefully better cooperative pipeline between science and citizens and Citizens Science like we are interested in the weather, and other immature sciences, things that affect our life, our environment. I make the analogy that data donors are providing data, where you get a flu or coronavirus or microphone on your smart phone, building up weather maps, and otherwise. Given the run from universities how this might shape academia. Everyone is forced to confront the future faster than we thought. It would move inevitably online but we were forced in one week, moved 1142 Classes Online in a week and we are learning what works and what doesnt work. We are learning there are many things you can do online that may be better than what you do in physical space and we are learning something needs a physical space. I love your point about being data donors. Everyone should be taking notes because this moment will pass in a blur but we need to document what works and what doesnt work and how we make it better and when we emerge from this how to take the best parts of online and get it out there. Online is the ability to get access. Overnight we have 50,000 registrants. That is extraordinary. The potential for education is back and we need to make it as good as possible. This question. Can i answer that quickly. I want to go big because you have a made up name futurist in your title, you have to prove it every day, and i agree with the point we are in cnn. Com. We need to recreate the essence of the village, we left this virtual, emotional, inactivity to compensate for physical social distancing and two days later someone i never met reached out, not only is it the wrong thing, we need to build a matching platform that connects retirees at home with skills, many socially isolated with kids sheltering at home, eight days later we had a prototype. It has gone live and going out in the world and people signing up and life is moving at warp speed but big picture this is a profound moment. I dont think our lives are just going to snap back. The way i see this it started out as if the chinese system worked as it should have it wouldnt be here. If the World Health Organization is empowered to do the job we set 401948 we wouldnt be here. The United States government and federal government, the trumpet ministration had done its job, wouldnt be here. The governance crisis came a health crisis, now it has become an economic crisis and i think this crisis is going to grow because life cant fully normalize until there is a vaccine. Its not like you want the United States to play this role in the world, this is the moment, u. S. Is really weekend. Then i think those government crises and covenants crises are going to morph into a potential geopolitical crisis and thats when i think we need to be really worried about. The United Kingdom has the same number of soldiers and ships and weapons at the end of 1956 as it did in the beginning but in the middle of that year was the suez crisis. I change that had been happening suddenly became clear, and so the game is open and the game of National Governance but even the whole global power structure. Its hard to make these kind of massive predictions but ill do it anyway. I think this year 2020 is really the end of the postwar world historians look back at about 100 or so now, so we had the post world war. 2020 something new hopefully started to be created. We dont know what that is and thats why coming together to try to imagine it and together building is so important. I think we will be a few minutes over but try to take a couple more questions. One from david. How do you see the future of telemedicine and how far he from personalized medicine based on large mimetic genetic makeup . George, since you play this role, could you imagine if the very near future we might even have her own digital twin stick and look at our genetic makeup and risk for nudges getting coronavirus but are immune response . Where might that go . Now, again i very much agree with debora about we dont want to great have and havenots, that requires i think innovation more than anything else. If were going to make digital versions of ourselves, we should do it we can do it in such a way that it is dirt cheap, in a certain sense. Everybody was any kind of access to smartphones, even if after bartlett from somebody next to them, can access the worlds information and it could include these personal components. Theres other technologists which are intrinsically you have to, for example, small blocks is something which is smallpox is something acquittal industry. Everyone on the earth has access to. Nobody has to pay even a penny to get a new smallpox drug or a new smallpox vaccine because its 16. We need to use that as a lesson to where we need to be going with technologists in general. Some will be easier than others. I hope thats where were going with equitable distribution. And also there will be some, even though i should be championing personalized medicine and gene therapies having played a role in both, i think theres a growing need for generics so there will be things that affect diseases that really impact huge number of people, and they will be less expensive because the denominator is so much larger. The fixed cost to Clinical Trials is spread out over billions of people and these things include vaccines, aging reversal, every way we die prematurely. If we can get some of those things that impact everybody and get down to the price of generic drugs are lower pretty quickly. I can imagine on the question of telemedicine, almost every even the bottom billion have sms phones, they can be the links f picking up disease how your moving, your vital signs and also democratize come to living Digital Information potentially there are a few tricks that you could reprogram your smartphone to your digital diagnostic that can screen for particular viruses and print out the vaccine locally and much more rapid manner and were seeing i think to this pandemic a bit of democratization of access information and you think it. Im hoping an app will be on billions of smartphones that would be of hit of a Global Center for both regular General Health but also responding early. Just look at overtime. Maybe go round robin. Debora, george, the jamie to take it home. I think the best we can do at this moment is not lose the advantage of a good crisis. We have a very good crisis here. Its truly global. I remain less optimistic than jamie perhaps the willing to be convinced anything if we can get headway on any of this collaborative techniques and technologies that georgia were john and daniel youre describing, find out how to use our personal information to advance the greater good than it will have been a crisis worth surviving. But we need a lot of folks getting on the bandwagon so that we make sure we get the good out of this crisis and not the very real evils that are working as well. George . I agree with that. This this is a onceinalifetie think we hope. But what if . It seems like the number pandemics is increasing. What if the next coronavirus comes i hope we dont forget i i hope our memory is so much better. This has finally gotten our attention. Its no longer about we can just make up facts. Lets just be entertained by facts. Lets dribble a couple of dollars. This is really a crisis not of tanks and chemical weapons and hydrogen bombs. This is a crisis of nature invading our space, and we are ill prepared for it. We could be for very inexpensive way, just more creativity, we could be prepared for the next one, which may not be a lifetime away. It may be two years away. It could be before we even done with this one the next one comes. That what thats a tap of the 1918 flu. The second wave was more serious than the first one because there was, the selection spread more quickly, because all the people in the military were only shipped back if they had a really serious disease. It started spreading. I hope were paying attention as was said earlier, taking notes. In this year now we have the ability, darwin back of a response and we can respond the Silver Lining is some of the new innovations, Public Health to have educate to even if many folks unfortunately have lot of mortality, morbidity, economic impact, i think we will emerge out of this may benefit us in better ways. I love the quote from, apollo 13 when folks thought it might be a disaster for nasa, and the head of Johnson Space center said this might be nasas finest hour, and it takes a new mindset and a click to do jamie, taken some as we move into this brave new world. I i want to end on it even me hope with love and respect to debora but first i just wanted to thank george and debora and daniel. Its such an honor for you guys to have you with me at this event, so thank you, thank you, thank you. And you are our cohost. Heres what i feel, i feel hope. When hundred years ago there were 2 billion humans on earth, and we had about a 20 literacy rate. That means any problem that we had, you had about 400 Million People who could contribute to solving it. Thats a lot of people. Now we have 7. 7 billion humans. We have an 85 literacy rate. Thats 6. 5 billion humans who are, have the potential and we are all networked to come together to solve these problems. So we are this horrible species and we certainly destroying our planet but were a magical species that can do great things that no other species perhaps can even imagine. So that gives me hope. And then just maybe a call to arms is probably the wrong word, but this is an all hands on deck moment for all of us, and this is touching everybody on earth. And everybody has a role to play from big to small, whether its george helping to find a vaccine, to find a cure. And daniel, you , you bring togr the greatest innovators, medical innovators and Health Innovators in the world to find new ways to innovate. Debora finding new ways for us to learn and build new communities. We are all going to be of you but has a role and we have to do this together, and everybody, even if anybody who sang a joke at a guess if youre watching this you not enjoy watching netflix, if you are Binge Watching netflix, you are not appreciating not just the magnitude of this moment, but whats required of each of us so that we can you mentioned finest hour, nasa, referencing churchill. This is a terrible time that we can together make it our finest hour. And thats why coming together in events like these and sharing ideas i think is so important. Thats why thank you and all the participants for being part of this. Thanks, jamie. Just a reminder. How do we get the new edition of your book . I thought youd never ask, daniel. So its available everywhere. Ebook until midnight tonight thanks to sourcebooks. Its like a third off but wherever books are. If you go to your local bookstore, please be careful, wear a mask, do all the things that george says. But i would just order it if i were you. Great. With that thanks to debora, george, jamie. Thanks to the organizers and sponsors, and we will see you into the future. Thanks so much, daniel. Goodbye. Tonight on booktv beginning at 8 p. M. Eastern highlights from our monthly indepth series. Thats followed by former Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director Richard Cordray who detailed secretion of the bureau. Then journalist Michelle Malkin offers her thoughts and use immigration policy. Watch booktv tonight and over the weekend on cspan2. This memorial day weekend on booktv, saturday at 3 25 p. M. Eastern. Watch booktv this memorial day weekend on cspan2. Hello, everybody. Thanks so much for joining us