Assembly required decoding life. This event this event will conclude with time for questions. If you want to ask the speaker something, go to the ask a question button at the bottom of the screen where you can submit your questions. Well get through as many as time allows. Also at the bottom of the screen you can see a link to purchase your copy of dont want to die poor. The sales support Harvard Book Store are so a huge thanks forker generosity. Your purchases make this author series possible and ensures the future of a landmark independent book store. Thank you for showing up for authors, publishers, indy book selling here at Harvard Book Stores virtual space. We appreciate your support. Now, im so pleased to introduce the speaker. Michael arceneaux the author of the essay check, love, sex, family, race and other reason is but my faith in beyonce. Rembert brown is voice at twitter and previously writer at large for new York Magazine and a staff writer. Hit other writes published in New York Times, the ringer, Time Magazine and other publications. They will be discussing mookals newest book, i dont want to die poor,en essay collection that but the specific trauma of insecurity. Es said as relatable as prescient, pry as they are sincere, arceneaux acclaimed author praises the book, observing that arceneauxs brilliant how quietly he lead to us empathy, forcing us to examine what it means to exist in a world that makes it increasingly difficult. Were delighted to those this event. Ill temperature things over to michael and rembert. My first question is in this otechnical disinfectty world you wrote a book that people love and it was critically acclaimed, the New York Times best seller, all that stuff,. What was what went on in your head when you were like, lets try to do it again . Is that terrifying . Are you trying to meet expectations that are here were here originally or in your head were you already kind of like want to write books, plural. Not in my head if i were white i would have had my book deal sooner. I had a vision of my life and career for a really long time. Cant [inaudible] early 30s and this is the kind of story, but i talk about loan debt because i new how much that impacted my life, and i just you work and consume a lot of media and youre clear about the narrative and can always tell where something isnt going to change and you talk about the Student Loans and i [inaudible] the same boring trite representation of, like, gay black men. You have got better but i didnt know necessarily i would even the book deal was contingent on the first one, a certain thing, but i knew if i got to write the book i want to write and it would do well enough where i could sell this and then another idea, more like kind of a trilogy, and then probably quit books and write for a while. Well see. I cant say no to nothing in this economy so does writing but Something LikeStudent Loans, something that kind of like haunts you and has you cant if get too far away from . Is the process of writing about it, like, equal part triggering and therapeutic or does it for me, as someone that also has, like, a number, an amount of student loan that is so large, doesnt even kind of resigned im kind of accepted, like unless something crazy happen inside my life. This is a bill i pay until im like 80 or Something Like that. One of those things. For you, like, kind of dealing with it head on . Has that what was that process like, having to think you already thinking but Student Loans a lot because they dont disappear but then decides to write about it does that add to the stress and anxiety. The problem of paying them off. I dont think first, i would not content but i would if i could have paid until 80 but i just never really had the option. You have a 12, year plan and youre going to pay us. They removed the option. I had to choice but to face it. Dont dont like talk can but money or debt, didnt like any part of writing or admitting how much i wouldnt say i learned a lot but i knew everything that i needed to get i wouldnt have put it out there, but i knew it would be more revealing than anything and i cant i think talking about money is far more personal, particularly if you didnt grow up with it. Also to write because frankly, as i outlined to some extent in the book but i didnt say no other way, but a lot of things that were happened in the last year where i spent most time writing it was awful time. Struggled more than i thought i would so it was nightmare to write it and then live it while knowing that you can honestly right now, most of this right now is the fragility of the situation, how much of your fate is beyond your roll or no matter how much youve get a little bet ahead if you dont have a financial base, could be poor from just kind of humiliating writing the book. Cathartic, i guess, but mostly just was a pain. Needed to get it done because i got a better advance than the first book. I think something that was super interesting to read that i adopt know if id even fully unpacked myself is the kind of connection between, you know, the decision of your late teens, early 20s, and, like, lingering shame. It is kind of crazy i think a lot of people talk pout college and, like, they it being one of the Big Decisions of your life, its kind of the romanticize it version of it. Where you go, like, that campus, like, determines a lot, but theres also the other part which is, like can the financial thing you a lot of times youre an 18yearold is deciding. Not always unilaterally but, like, you just you dont really know what youre getting yourself into, especially if you come from a family where money is not a casual thing. Theres not a slush fund. What was just that idea of shame was so interesting to read and i think will relate to a lot of people who pick this up. Yeah. I think the thing i realize i didnt degree up with a lot of didnt grow up with a lot of money but i was the first person who moving forward and her folks about certain things that she like journalism, youre going to major in that . I didnt realize i was the only one going to college, the first to coop of good to college but wasnt even a choice. It was like youre going, always a presumption if didnt realize it was a big del. In term over the debt stuff i knew you dont make a lot of money at first. What no one could know is media as we traditionally understood it imploded and then i also graduated when that happened and the Great Recession happened so its like virtually no jobs. So some ways, yes, i didnt completely know. But even i was 17 and as soon as recruited me, thats enough to i did a lot. I didnt have blinders. I just didnt realize so much of what i thought existed just was not going to be there anymore and thats more so the fact i was born in 0 and started with reagan and carried through bush and then trump, all kind of tied together, theyve one screwing us people all under 40. Thats the stuff that nobody could have known the strangeness i felt like didnt want to be a black man letting me mom down and she does not think that but its my open guilt. Thats the fact that the the larger honest of the book, punish of uses for things that are not fair and youre kind of its you going against the system. Yeah. Going to take a quick pause. Dont want to die poor. If youre watching. Thats true friendship. Theres a button on the bottom to purchase if youd like. What what were talking about. Its very it is a good title, great whoever tidure book cover, fantastic. I love the cover. Fantastic. One thing i think the Second Chapter in the book, if you havent read, try not to spoil it bit want to talk about certain point in the become. Youre talking about reality tv, talking but a world which you almost became some oncamera talent. Which is funny because theres actually it wasnt reverence but there was a point where we were beth almost oncamera people for definitely were. Yeah. So, moving on. Right. That chapter did reminded me of something that i think so many folk have to deal with, which goes against everything you no which i idea of turning town the wrong money. If you dont come if you were in a position dont have a lot of money in your account, youll know about these loans that just kind of note over your head and float over your head and never disappears and then an opportunity shows up that even youre at a point where any money is lifechanging money, that idea of still saying no is like a particular type of lunacy, and delusion in your ohm long game that you have built in your own head with no idea if its going to actually pan out. I want to talk me through what the process is like, because its something i think but a lot and ive seen people take ive seen people take what was obviously the wrong money and but i was jealous of them and enough they had nine months to do the most with this money, and which is kind of what you were talking about when you talk sharee from real housewives of that important. Was trying to do a lot of Different Things in that chapter. I suspect everyone who has the book, people say, niche cultural references which is adorable. In any case, that year, i didnt add that partner become because that would have distracted and probably talk late are, but ill just say there was something that happened to me professional live that was beyond my control and was unfortunate, that kind of really altered the trajectory of my career and kind of kicked me off the path of what i wanted to do. One media outlet owed me a lot of money so i needed the money, but the thing was, i really truly believed that i dont know if i dont im the type of person who can old money and good money put i think its important i have a larger purpose and maybe i do [inaudible] i realize i had nothing against Reality Television and if i thought that maybe it would be a means to an end, i could grit through it so surety put ultimately reveal view that type of thing. As i write in the become im like, they are literally on the white board talking about me or somebody i dont even know. Its like black homophobia and dont know anybody but boyfriends which is cute and also as i mentioned in the chapter which applies to me because im a black gay man and i saw a show on youtube that should be on tv and people would be into it. So many people copy day white men, copy queer culture and other showed that are not really and what as much as i love real housewives i think its funny how they get money of of boom we all created and then you have the show with the people get to be themselves and then on youtube nothing wrong with being on youtube. Im complimented but the fact that day black men and so these values and that amies to me, too, not being poor but still resuspect my publisher but publishing dont value people [inaudible] so trying to speak to that and recognizing the fact i get why some people do this. I just personally think it wasnt worth it because as one person who i probably should say by name warned me [inaudible] it wasnt worth it. They would have paid me three dollars. Wouldnt have been worth it. I will say that being in the world of criticism and occasionally taking a healthy hater approach to things you get called out, it does provide a certain amount of checks and balances when your life chengs, when things pop up im like, wait, am i about to do the thing i called corny for five years . Like, if i feel like im about to do that, thats pretty much my indicator to say, no, because i feel like coming upespecially in the industry, its like you want to do it your way and then put youre watching people a little older than you, just like when youre just like a raw 20something, how could you do that, and then you become 33 but okayi get it but i still cant do it. You know it would have made me lack like a bitch. Would have been crazy and professional, but i know my heart put i know my mouth and the thing is that people that good into that thinking ill be different. You think youre special. Were all special but no one is special. No thank you. Yeah, yeah. One thing i thought as someone that knows you and someone who is also a black man from the south that shares lots of cultural references, when youre writing a book, something that you hope to be consumed widely, theres a world in which you tone down some of the, like you know, the elan harris references and then theres a world where youre like aisle knock goetz not going to handhold older white people who might not know the people i talk but every fifth or sixth hundred which kind of feels like when youre working with white editors and journalism who dont in the what youre talking about. When youre writing this, were there moments you were, like, should i, you know, lick am i getting to reverend shall or does reference shall or you want to double down. Im sorry. Keep going. I never think about that. I love it. Nothing wrong if you do think but it , i dent think right or ongoing. If you do, thats fine. Dont. My thought is i read a butch of stuff from people of all times. I it dont know what theyre talking but i google and figure out. Its not that hard. Im not going to, like i guess that comes with consequences, like the niche references i see in reviewed, reviews and im not going to bend to a lens that dont ever bend to me. I think ultimately i dont mean to be antagonistic but i trust the reader. Plenty of very nice older white people in their 70s email me, many would say i didnt quite completely understand everything but i really got the heart of your story, are so hey did what die, they looked it up and then they were like issue get it now. And might have introduced them to something they probably wouldnt have thought of the same way as me. So i dont no, i refuse to. I feel like [inaudible] its to say so often were always told to center whiteness and talk but [inaudible] er writing about being black in a white space and how white people react to you, and theyre not the same. If you like it, you like it. You dont, you dont. Were good. Were good. What would you say was going become, reading your own book, what would you say is the chapter or anecdote or the story that you enjoy rae reiding. Not necessarily writing the most because enjoying writing isnt real because writing often is hard and sucks, but dont do it. Sorry. Keep going. But what is the story there is a story in this book that you feel like really sums the whole thing is about who you are but one story where youre like, im going to open this book and show you one story in here that it think will get you into this book, what is that . Oh. Um, the become is actually i still think really funny but if i had to pick something for somebody to read, i guess maybe the best to know me it would be the chapter that i write to my mom. I was actually i cried writing that, in a coffee shop in harlem. Shout out to the owner. It was hard to get out. I cried reading it for their audio book. And i didnt hate writing it. It was painful no write and thats the most honest thing i have ever written and who i am. I like the anger that just really reveals what its like to come from this kind of chaos and really trying to at the same time have heart and being considerate and compassion newscast will peep. And maybe the rapper chapter. Finally. Ive been waiting for it. My passion. Theres michigan in reading, you write, it actually theres a lot of it that is kind of inspiring to me because i find myself when i think but books or essays or things i want to write that feel super personal i as an excuse to not do it i run straight to the, like well, like, how will someone still feel about this when it comes out . Im like, why did i just run to the end. As soon as an idea pops up that is tough, youre like i cant do that because so and so might be offended by it, and then i step away from it, and reading this its a reminder that just write it. Write it and then get it out first, and then make that decision. Like, writing but for you, how has the process been of writing i dont want to write all my permanent stuff but poking my life of everyone folk in my life after everybody is dead. I want to write stuff that people are alive and can see and thats difficult. Hough is that it process been for you . Youre like talking about people who will then read it. Um, yeah. Usually im always cognizant of the fact that you are when youre writing youre story your also including other people residents story so its very important to be considerate, and how not only how much of other peoples story includes whether or not youd in to include sometimes aspects like in the case of still trying to take on there was some things i just think out of because something really truly happened to somebody else, what if that [inaudible] would have been the right thing to do . No, so its not in. The probably that can be something different. But my main goal was i dont want to end up poor, if im talking about anybody like any family, its subtle and my parents dont read my books but i think i mentioned before my auntie said im respectful. Honest but respect. I try to be honest and respectful and also the fact that i might have story about me i might tell that speak to Different Things with other people, if an individual person doesnt if it doesnt feel right to include it for whatever reason i dont. I think there are other ways to tell the larger point. Yeah. Also, i think for someone that feels like writing will be a part of their life for a long time issue think its also, like you dont have to force everything right there. Holding on to some stuff, lick maybe figuring out the right time to tell that story. I feel like its also helpful. Theres something very, i think, awesome that you said at the end of the book, which i think really informs kind of why the book exists, outside of the financial things that come with writing a book and writing the book being your job, you did your job, like that. But this idea of learning to forgive yourself, which is michigan you say, i think, like ill milwaukee be on the last page of the become. But its very something because i think about my i feel like my 30s are just making up for the sense of my 20s, in terms of, like, financial irresponsibility and those moments where its a recession and youre like, do i go to this party or pay my phone bill . Those moments where youre confronted with, do i do the thing i need for my mental sanity or for my Financial Stability . And that not only being the most responsible. And then, like, you look in the future and youre like, wow, if i hadnt just done this or that or this or that, things would be different. But also just like learning to bev issue like, you know what . Thats what you needed to do in that moment. Dont just beat yourself down about that. Its a very i think its a really good amazing thing for someone to read because theres a good chance whoever is reading that has beat themselves down about that. How did you get to that even do you find you were practicing what you preached . Or is it still kind of hard to forgive yourself at time inside. Forgive yourself. Im honestly i when i played in the book i didnt really meant it, otherwise i think i yeah, i meant it because i needed to really believe, otherwise that type of thing will come back. One thing that i i cant hopefully like a lot of my work people pick up from that, its holding peep accountable and starts with self and being kinder to other people and also starts with self, and i im forgiving myself for things i didnt mean and dont need to the forgiven for and even mistakes made but were also hard on ourselves for some many things dont need to be and thats more so a lot of times like societal pressure we are bound to give into. I mean, im still getting emails from people who dont even just kind of like selfish, saying, its not your fault, blah blah, i grew up wanting to murder my father who was violent, alcoholic and wanted to kill my mother. I cant good to columbia, but Howard University which was not a compromise and became the best choice i could have made. That was to even have access to a life that black people i thought frankly only exited xied on tv because i wasnt only existed on tv bus i one around that. Do i wish i hadnt take our loans loans and took the government route . If a rue he cuter told me a year recruiter where is he. Probably in virginia being foreign. I felt safe to say even if you didnt have that darker past, thats so many people, ail i wanted to do was do better than my parent and dream like Everything Else so not just watch tv all the time and be encouraged you can do this or that like some white boys and then [inaudible] so i the bigger question is to me not if i would go back and thats what people keep asking because it speaks to what youre saying. Would i go back in time and change it . No. What i wish is i wouldnt have to i shouldnt have had to do that, and people, look my niece, shouldnt be going into debt to become a doctor. Thats the bigger point hopefully with this pandemic and[inaudible] people need to be less selfish and thats does speak to the book ifll stop now. Im about to go into a gospel track. I was about to play the organ. I wanted to read a quote that i really appreciated. I did my due diligence. I did underlining, i have a section in my home, very privileged, i have section in my home where its a bookshelf of people, my friends and their books. Its a beautiful thing. You and cheah and all of your backs, but i think theres this quote and its not related toking in but just like this very real kind of like truth to power moment that you can speak to. Its but perma land. Which i feel like it hit differently in this moment that were in right now. A lot of this hits very it hits heavier in a moment of, like, questioning what america is built off of which is just like its all smoke andmer roars. The quote is permanent na lean is a tomorrow pratt term that translates into were going to work you as if you were a fulltime are but dont would to pay you for your Health Insurance so if you get sick, try some robitussin or what its you poor people use to treat yourselves because its not on us. Thats basically a quote about america right now. And true to form to america, what is happening to me and people like me is a lot of black people is finally happening to everybody else and now maybe people will change their minds and get it. So interesting, i have actually i think people take into account, the Great Recession you cant control how you start. That impacts everything. But then when it was finally time for me to, like, get off erred a job, those fulltime positions, might have eventually yielded me more money, none of them paid me enough no pay for perspective private loans so i took a lot of fulltime contract work and sometimes they were dueling kind of fulltime work and then kind of like right now, dont have the budget anymore. Its like, click. And you i feel really bad for even folk is know now just today, one thing i also hope people take away from the book i i see it already on social media and makes me my head explode. More often than not no matter how much youre making, youre probably being underpaid unless youre the person who is taking advantage of you. So instead of you, like, looking town, because frankly people look town on being free lance and per perp erma lance and look at you now. You have to consider the fact were all fragile in this way based on the way the system is set up. Of before we go to questions, one thing want to say if youre listening to this, watching this, there are the two of out are two people that came up and entered adulthood and what we thought was going to be, like, the worst moment of our lifetimes, which that recession, we kind of wear it as a badge of honor, like, being a recession kid is like a generation to itself, and millenial, the millenial world. But what i will say is if you are watching this or youre and you know someone who is like a College Senior, give. The this book because a lot of this stuff that comes out of this book and a lot of the being forgiving to yourself and, like theres going to be a lot of 20, 21yearolds who speaker a very similar world that we enter, that you enter, that you talk about in the book and theres certain level of there is no script. There is no one that can prepare you for what is about to happen but just like be kind to yourself, as the process happens, and i feel like comes through in this book, and i think instead of just trying to give advice to that 19, 20, 21yearold in your life, just, like, tell them to pick this up. If theres something you could tell to someone who is currently, like, bummed out, not going to grad wait, not going to walk across the state, blah blah blah, trying to figure out the world, what would you tell them . My niece is a College Senior and i gave her the book when i was in new orleans visiting her in march. As far as missing graduation, i have no idea what that was look, i i graduated in chaos and nothing but supposed to have loans, i think potentially some of them. Mooing be african and forgiven if you have federal loops, black folks are going to be private lenders who are less forgiving. More often than not realiicly, actually what happened to me at the minimum i only got 0 year, six months deferment and that was it. I if you have that option you heave to do the best you and can hope use the six months to a year. And frankly its just more than anything i wish i had a magic wand but if you dont have it, you cant give it. Is it going hurt you . Yet, it is going to make you feel bad . Yes. I literally drove myself crazy, physically harmed myself the stress and working myself some the ground, trying to not be a black man with bad credit because this would kill in and i would say its not worth and its not comforting but it seems to be were in the midst of some really difficult time, and worrying but credit or worry about not perfects perfection and do the best you can could get through the days head and know that number of this is your fault. Theft key. Up in is your asphalt do the best you can. I think the one piece of advice i would give in terms of thinking about some of my mistakes, is i think its happeny to not pick up the phone all the time but dont never pick up the phone. Because every now and then, that person on the other line isnt a bad person. Theyre just doing their job and a spent of couple of years being like if i dont anxious the phone issue dont have to deal with it. And then when i finally answer the phone because they found where i lived, then they were, like now were at your house. Metaphorically. I think it is it was for a long time important for me, i was like if i even start thinking but this the rest of me life will unravel. Let me just push it off. I had to do that but at the same time at in point get to a place where you can have that conversation. Not going to be fun but its better than running forever. Before i were not done but i want to i thought we had couple of questions. Here i am. All right. And you both can hear me . Yes. Great. Okay. So looks like we have one question and then the first question, rick g is wondering, now that you have written butll, sexual justice music and death do you have any other themes in mind for the next book in and then as a followup wants to know if you have ever been tempted by fiction. Well, before this, unfortunately i lostmer people than i would have like last year so i wanted to write about death and getting older. That was the goal. I might well see how the pandemic goes. Im pausing right now. Fiction, yes, fiction i kind of Like Television but im open to fiction. Have the been thinking but some stuff and my other niece 11 and wants me to write something she can actually read so i should work on that. I i have time. Whats the other question. Thats it. For the second sort of i think great. Were of running short of team. One says amen which i a comment left from the middle of the presentation that sums up how were feeling after this. If thats the lost we have another question. And then elissa wants to say yes to ya thats where the money at. I thought about ya. Thats all the requests re have tomorrow for right now. There are any closing comments or discussion points from either of you. Just say thank you for making space and starting to go to boston with my first time, i was tracing bobby browns steps. Never been to boston. Never been to boston. Wow. And thank you rembert for doing this and thank you all for being patient and ask can questions. Buy the book. I appreciate it. Im done but good. I just want to say that i it is a beautiful world to see folks like michael go from blogging, with nothing twitter or anything to amplify themselves, to having a following, to free lansing, having columns to writing for places that didnt pay him, to now having multiple books in the world. I them it is an awesome thing and when i think aboutsel 15, 1617, 18yearold me, there seems to be space for one or two black folk to talk about the world i love the fact theres more space for a lot of People Like Us to tell stories. Im really happy and thrilled the book is out and im proud of my friend. That was so touching. Im going to send you a really nice text. Great. Well, just want to take this moment to thank our wonderful speakers and you for spending your evening with and you supporting authors and publishes and our incredible staff here at Harvard Book Store and thank you for your patience during our technical difficulties. We send searly appreciate do sincerely appreciate your court and please, please check out i dont want to die poor with the linking below. And its important we read the writing of this contemporary writer, and Rembert Browne as well. Thanks again for your time, your purchases and your patience. Have a gravity night, and everyone please try to do your best to stay well. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you, everyone. Good night, everyone. Steve inskeep discussing john and jessy fremont. John Charles Fremont was an explorer, a man who in the 1840s and 50s in a series offed and additions started in st. Louis, missouri, which was then the westernmost city of any consequence in the united states. And went out a u. S. Army officer, hired skilled civilians to go along with him, and mapped the oregon trail, mapped other routes, went out west again and again. Ultimately ended up by chance in california, was intrigued as people are when they come to california, and then returned a couple of years later, year later to this mexican controlled territory, with a party of 60 gunmen and began the process of taking over california from mexico and making it part of the united states. As an explorer he did not actually discover that much that was new. He was traveling across a lan that had been traversed by native nations for centuries, that had been explored by spanars, that had been exploredly fur trappers etch didnt find that much that was actually new but he codified it, made it accessible, making good maps and more important he was coming back east to washington where he was based, washington, dc, and writing accounts of his adventures. His job was not really to explore the west but to promote the west, to entice american settlers to move to the west because that was part of the process of taking over the territory and ensuring it would become part of the united states. In the process of promoting the American West and the 1840s and 50s he also promoted himself. He would write these conditions of his adventures that were just official u. S. Army reports but he would write them like a novel and he would describe the landscape of the robe mountains and the oregon trail and of the great basin which he name the vast area ringed in by mountains that encompasses most of nevada and utah and several other states. He would also screen california very beautifully, and very evocatively and he became such an extraordinarily famous and admire individual through his write examination apparent achievements, that in 1850 there was a magazine that named john c. Freeman as one of the three most important world historical figures since jesus christ. It was kind of an american centric list. The first of the three figures was christopher columbus, who discovered america as they would have said then, established european contacts with america would be a bet are way to phrase it. The second was george washington, the founder of the country, and then the third was john c. Fremont who greatest achievement who got him on the list, was his role, his reputation as the conqueror of california. Adding el dorado to the union, to the out. We had real talent, real courage, real fortitude, and real accomplishments. But as i write here the most important factor in fremonts fame may have been the person who made it possible for hum to take full advantage of both his talent and the times, jesse benton fremont, his wife. Born when women were allowed to make few chois for themselves jesse found a way to chart her own course the doctor of a senator who was deeply involved in the west she provide he her previously unknown husband with entree to theliest levels of the government and media. No coincidence this career began to soar after they ehelped when he was 28 and she was. I thought as many others did said a creditache that jessey benphone fremont was the better man of the two. She helped to write his famous report sinning a secretary, editor, writing partner and occasional ghost writer ship worked if news editors to publicize his downies. She became his politicals a veer. She attracted talented young men to his commercial. Promote he friends and lashed out another enemies. She carried on conversations with senators twice her age, off erred her opinions to president s even when they did not agree with and was gradually recognized as a Political Force in ore own right. Her timing was as perfect others her husbands. She was pushing the boundaries of womens assigned roles just as women were beginning to demand a larger place in national life. To learn more visit our website, booktv and serve Steve Inskeep and the title of his book imperfect opinion. Happy may day and thank you for join us. We have had over 350 people register for at the talk from all career this country and as far away as japan. Its about 4 00 in the morning in japan so not sureunder thatf that person made. Edirector of programs, exhibitions and community