Independent and asking a lot ofd republicans. Welcome to Washington Post live. Im bob, nationalst political reporter at the post. This morning i am joined by senator bernie sanders, independent of vermont, former democratic president ial candidate. He joins us from burlington, vermont but good morning, senator. Thank you for being here. Good to be with you. Lets cover a lot of ground. We have 30 minutes here and getting two issues. First up, the pandemic. The death toll continues to rise and millions of americans are out of work and as a u. S. Senator what do you want to see as a priority in the next round of legislation . The first thing we have to appreciate is how unbelievably rare the current moment is. I thank you can argue we are experiencing something that is unprecedented in thern history f this country. Europe has 80000 people that have died from the virus and 30 Million People have left their jobs in the last couple of months. The first thing we have got to do, as a nation and as a congress, is say that in the midst of this terrible crisis nobody in america is going to go hungry and everybody in america will have healthcare that they needhe and we are going to do wt many of the European Countries are doing and that is guaranteeing every American Worker continues to receive his or her paycheck and we will make sure we get many into the pockets of the American People at this time when people are hurting but thats number one. Then i would hope we would use this moment to take a hard look at how we got to where we are today. How did this happen . In the wealthiest country in the history of the world are we having a Healthcare System in which your healthcare is tied to your employment and when 30 Million People lose their jobs manye millions of those people are also losing [inaudible] and does that make sense to anybody . Whether you are working or not working or young or old, rich or poor, healthcare is a human right, not an Employee Benefit and when we talk about how we got to where we are and the desperation that so many evil are seen in this country then we have to ask ourselves what kind of economy do we have when even in good times, a couple of months ago, an appointment at three, 4 half the people lived paycheck to paycheck and once those paychecks stopped they suddenly find themselves in desperation and actual hunger. What economy is that . For now, senator sanders, you have a republican president in the white house so what is your assessment of his response . I think its an atrocious and will cost us thousands and thousands of lives. Compared to what how australia and new zealand have responded, trump on day one underplayed the dangers that the coronavirus put us in and he did not use the defense production act to make sure our doctors and nurses had personal protective equipment and needed andve he is coming up with one class theory after another rather than relying on science. What weve got to be doing now is making sure that we have a massive amount of testing to determine what people have the virus and who does not and who is immune perhaps having had the virus and have to figure out how we protect one third of americans and those that have preexisting conditions and are very vulnerable to either dying and becoming seriously ill because of the pandemic. We have to say we not only will open up the economy and it doesnt matter whether the waitress or the waiter may have the virus and we dont have to worry about that but we have to figure out how in a very sensible and scientific way we make sure that workplaces all over thisnt country are safe and there is an enormous amount of work to be done and partly we have a president who lies all the time and a president who does not believe in science and the congress will have to pick up the slack in the responsibility of this president. To that point, senator sanders would you advise the democrats against cutting a deal on liability with leader mcconnell . The issue right now is not on employment reliability. The issue right now is to make sure thatto people in america do not go hungry and the issue right now is to make sure that people are not evicted from their apartments and whether they lose their homes or whether they Credit Scores but we are in a moment and the worst economic moment right now and i dont think anyone so congress has got to say is how do we move immediately tomorrow to make sure that every person in this country has the Financial Resources they need in order to survive this pandemic and that is huge and, by the way, at a time when we had massive income and wealth inequality within workingclass people are forced to put their lives on their line in order to get a paycheck to feed their families i found that woefully immoral. For members of the senate and my republican colleagues, president s for them to state what wewh got to do is we dont have to worry about those people but yeah, we do. Ou if we have any sense of morality as a nation we have got to worry about the 20 of the children in this country that face hunger and those who are isolated to getting the food they need. That has got to be our set of priorities. Senator sanders, used the phrase cracked theories, are you frustrated at all with the members on the Coronavirus Task force and the nations Top Health Officials and are they doing enough to provide a full scope of this pandemic and also perhaps challenging President Trump . People like Anthony Fauci are doing a great job i think of other people who are intimidated by a president and based on some recent remarks i dont know that he understands what the testing of the function is about so i would hope that all of those around the president who understand science have the courage to speak up and do the right thing. But clearly he has an intimidating and in fact not only on his butt on the entire United States senate and the Republican Leadership there what we need now is a call for morality and a call for science and how do you open up the economy in a way that is safe that is the question that we have to be debating. What should the role of billionaires be in this crisis . I think as a nation we have got to ask ourselves whether we are satisfied with an economy in which we have seen in recent years the billionaire class become much, much richer while we have a half a Million People today, robert, who are homeless who are sleeping in shelters. When we have a dysfunctional child care system that we have in many parts of the country Public Education that is failing the children so the issue is not just the billionaires but the issue is the nature of the economy in which three people own wealth than the bottom half of society and it goes to the top 1 so i would hope that in the midst of this unprecedented crisis of whether we are havingable with so few so much and so many having so little that whether we are comfortable being the only major country that has healthcare for all people is a human rights and that we are comfortable with our educational system which fails children in the child care programs but also causes massive debt to people who do not want nothing more than to go to college and graduate school to get a decent education paid now is the time i think in the midst of this and in any Silver Lining in the midst of all of this terrible pain out there is to be thinking about what america we want in the future and moral values are what society we want to live in. Senator, youre talking about a rethinking and a big way on the domestic front but what about foreign policy, should this pandemic have the u. S. Rethink its policy toward china in any way and i think we should be rethinking our relationship in the entire world. Mpdonald trump blamed everybody for every problem other thanha himself and has been a very divisive force in america and blames the undocumented anden African Americans and blamed the muslim, you name it, he would blame someone and now hes blaming china. Chinas record for the coronavirus by denying the reality of what was happening in china withni very, very problematic, to say the least, very wrong. But right now what we have got to do as a world is understand that is if this pandemic and this virus has taught us anything, we are one world and i think we got to end the blame game and figure out how we work with countries all over the world, not only in coming up with a vaccine and treatment for this pandemic and that is what the world should be cooperating about and its unbelievable to me that we have a president who has cut funding for the World Health Organization and cut funding for as part of an effort to create an International Program to develop a vaccine and unbelievable he would do that but it goes beyond that. It goes to the fact that as a world right now we are spending trillions of dollars on weapons ofap destruction and a president who prides himself, were selling dont want to saudi arabia and all of the world and well, maybe when so many people are suffering maybe we might want to think that its more important for people all over the world for healthcare and education and decent housing rather than more weapons of destruction but thats the lesson i would learn from this moment. Im struck by your framing of the future. You want to see societal change, fundamental change so think ahead to january 2021 and Vice President biden is in the oval office and if you are seeking that kind of change will you pressure him and if he is president on healthcare to pursue more than a public option . Absolutely. Look, theres no question im supporting joe biden but joe and i have very serious disagreements on policies. I think on joes worst day he will be a thousand times better than trump on his best day so im strongly supporting joe but i think that it is hard for me to imagine how anybody can defend the current structure of our Healthcare System. Before the pandemic and before the pandemic he had 87 Million People uninsured or underinsured. We paid by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs and we have a primary Health Care System which is way behind other countries and clearly we had an Inadequate Public Health system in which our doctors and nurses do not even have the masks, the gloves and the gowns they needed to do their jobs and to protect themselves. So for all of that we have the pilferage of spending twice as much a person on healthcare as any other country. And now when millions of people are losing their healthcare because it is attached to their jobs is hard for me to imagine anybody defending this Current System except the Healthcare Industry which made 100 billion in profits last year. E i got that but anyone else could cite the system is so dysfunctional and so wasteful and we need to move in a new direction. So, i believe that medicare for all is the direction weve got to go and healthcare is a human right, not an Employee Benefit and i will do my best to move joe in that direction and i think one way we can move in that direction is. [audio difficulties] make sure that every kid inn america under 18 has healthcare in a simple, costeffective program. I think thats a popular idea and i hope joe will move in that direction. The cabinet will matter if he is elected and if you want to see him move in that direction, who he picks matters so who would you like to see at hhs or state or treasury but really at hhs and treasury, these positions matter when it comes to policymaking. They sure do matter but you are absolutely right. Its one thing and we are working right now and i talked to joe on a couple of occasions trying to move in a more progressive direction and we will see that process continuing. I think he does that and its not like hes coming up with some radical idea. [inaudible] the majority of o American People believe that we have got to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and make it easier for workers to join unions. But these are not radical ideas but these are ideas that are popular and good public policy. All i would say is that i hope very much that joe will take a hard look at some of the leading andressives in this country i think we all know their names and. Senator, im not familiar as who you see as those names. Well, i thank you do. Then i will get an email saying why did you not mention me, bernie but. [inaudible conversations] a little preview. Go to the congressional progressive caucus and you will find [inaudible] is one of the cochairs and under them you got a whole lot of progressives and progressives in the United States senate. Progressives are not in congress are now so i think what you need to bring into the capital is not only people that have progressive ideology but people who hadha the experience of interacting with workingclass people who understand that now is the time to tell the billionaire class and to tell the 1 but that this economy will change and that it cannot be based on greed and selflessness and that we need to create a cooperative pipeline economy for all people to do well, not just the people on t top. Have you given him the same advice that a running mate. Might really have not, thats an issue i try to stay away from. Why . Thats an issue he has to make and someone he trusts and icwhen youre picking eight running mates thats a personal decision and its not just an ideological decision but a personal decision and he is who he is and he will have to make the decision picking somebody who he is comfortable with, but i have been talking to him about very strongly is the need to respond vigorously, not to the moment that we are in but the American People understand [inaudible] that we are hearing the pain that is out there and that we are prepared to take the bold actions that are necessary right now. We need unprecedented action because we are living in an unprecedented moment and that is what i think joe has to do and as we look to the future i think we have to challenge many of the fundamental tenants which have guided us over the years but the basic worldview of a donald trump is lit, the function of human life is for you to become a billionaire and if you have too raw lie, cheat or steal thats what life is about and maybe you will be one of the few and you can make it and have 50 billion but lucky you, and maybe thats one way to look at the world for the other way to look at the world is to look more like what scandinavia looks like and how to be guarantee healthcare for all and how do we make sure that every worker in america has a paid family and medical leave and f how do we le our children and give them the best childcare that we know that we can give them in the best education we can give them and how do we lead the world in combating Climate Change and making sure senator, i didnt mean to interrupt but i said senator, this just indulge me for a moment and i will not get into a name game on bp but weve gotten emails from readers about bide and warren and how would you see that connect liberals and progressives have written about that specific question. Ld i think shes an outstanding United States on her and would do a great job if that is someone biden feels comes with. Again, as i said, i think when you its a very personal decision. Its not quite liket getting married but it is somebody youwi will have to feel very comfortable with and a lot of that is personal chemistry. Couple other things on the Campaign Paid Vice President biden is worried that the president will try to delay the election, do you share that concern . Speed check when it comes to trump it is impossible to predict anything. I do not believe donald trump is a very strong believer in democracy and i think he has guided by his own personal [inaudible] and that is, in this case, to get reelected or to win riches for his own family and i think what we want to do is to remember that whether it was a month or so ago we had an election in wisconsin and some of us said this is not a good idea and others said other states postpone their elections but republicans in wisconsin wanted to hold it and last thing i heard was dozens and dozens of people came out and voted were made ill. What we are trying to do right now in the congress is allocate the necessary amounts of money that are needed to help states survive the paper ballots that would be needed for november. Nobody knows what the country will look like with the Health Crisis in november but it could at the very least everyone in this country should have the right to vote by paper ballot and that p is what we have to do moving forward. Senator sanders, former senate staffer, tara reade, has accused Vice President biden of sexual assault. What is your view of the Vice President s response . Look, we have fought for many, many years to create a climate in which every woman in this country who believes she was harassed or worse, salted should speak up with impunity and tara reade has the absolute right. But you will note joe biden has vigorously nine that charge and we need to listen to his statements as well and dissect that statement as well. I think it makes common sense is the media has got to do its job as an independent way of investigating her claims and thats all about i can say. Should the Vice President to provide full access to his papers at the university of delaware and elsewhere . I will let joe answer that himself but i think we need the media has got to do its job. Washington post will look into it and they New York Post is looking to it and they reckon icpeople will have to make their decision. The media is always looking for more information and thats why i asked the papers question. I just dont know enough about that about the pluses and minuses are. What were you saying . We are on skype and doing our best, one. Senator, usually im in frona of you in the hallways and youre running to the train but in the final few minutes here lets talk about your movement in your campaign. Many supporters of yours still feel demoralized by your defeat in the primary and skeptical of Vice President biden but you say it you are in a strong support nyof him but many remain skeptil so what is your message to them . Let me say this. I will do every thing i can to defeat donald trump. Hes the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country. Joe biden and i have strong, strong disagreements. Everyone knowsom that. We competed against each other for the primary and he got the votes for a variety of reasons and i did not and he has the delegates and he will, in all likelihood up the nominee. I want to say to progressives and workingclass people all over this country to understand that we have come a very long way in recent years and ideas that are now called mainstream ideas whether it is healthcare as a human right, whether guaranteeing every american a job and a decent wage and raising that minimum wage to 15 an hour or public universities giving student debts whether understanding what a major ex potential threat Climate Change is to our planet, we will help advance that agenda at the end of the day were most important is changing political consciousness because when the American People at the Grassroots Level want something politicians will followup it if got someone like joe biden right nowbi [inaudible] joe believes n a 15dollar hour minimum wage and joe believes in creating millions of jobs and rebuilding the infrastructure and joe believes in making it much easier for workers to join unions andin i thank you will se him coming out strongly with progressive ideas on Climate Change et cetera et cetera. We have come a long way and we should be proud is that the young people in this country and by that im not just talking 20 euros old but about people 45, 50 or under and by and large their views are consistent with what we have been fighting for. T during the campaign for whatever reason and i did not do well with older people and thats just a fact but even in those states where we lost we did really well with young people. I think the future is with our ideas about a more just society and about not having the income and wealth inequality we have and that healthcare and education and housing and Retirement Security are human rights and we need a more vibrant democracy but we have to stand up for the undocumented and minorities. Robert, i lost and im amdisappointed and millions of people are disappointed but i want people to know that because of that grassroots activism, knocking on millions of doors and god knows how many phone calls people made we are changing america in a very fundamental way and we have got to continue going. What i said when i suspended my campaign and we suspended the campaign but we do not suspend the limits. That Grassroots Movement must continue and it will continue and we will transform this country. Senator, you said youve come ava long way and i covered thatn 16 and you have and you say you struggled with holdovers and struggled with African American voters so heres a question ive always wanted to ask you. Do you believe older voters and African American voters in particular were rejecting your ideas or where they rejecting, and your view, your argument about your own electability. I dont have the answer to that. One thing that our deponents and as you know, robert, millions of super packed money was spent against us and one argument is onthat bernie cant defeat trump which is a foolish argument, to be honest with you but democratic socialism words make some people nervous andnd in the amongn American Community younger africanamericans we did you well and among latinos we did very, very well. I think we can all argue about why and what is the left in this nation need to do to build a Better Coalition with older africanamerican voters . I dont know the answer to that. On theg issues, i found somethg interesting, my memory there was an exit poll in mississippi that i did badly in mississippi. The polls showed the majority of the people in the very conservative state ofsi mississippi support medicare for all. What we have got to do is connect candidates not just candidates running for president. Actively supporting a number of candidates running for state congress and state legislator. What we have to do is connect aviews, our ideology about government that works for all with good articulate candidates. Want to thing, do you run for president again . Sen. Sanders i think the likelihood is very slim. I think next time around, you are going to see another candidate carrying the progressive banner. So there is a chance you could run . You did not fully close the door. Sen. Sanders lets not stop lets not be worrying about what is going to happen. Its going to be very unlikely that i will be running for president ever again and i think right now the focus i would say not only progressives are democrats but independents, republicans have got to be how they come together to defeat this very dangerous office right now. Host thank you very much for joining us. Next, the Supreme Court hears oral arguments on criminal jurisdiction over indian territory in oklahoma. At the center of the case is a native american man convicted of sex crimes who claims state courts had no right to triumph a crime committed on indian land that remains under dispute. The justices must decide if the scene of the crime is to be considered indian territory and whether it was appropriate for the state to pursue criminal charges into the federal prosecutors. The honorable, the chief justice and the associate justices of the Supreme Court of the United States. All persons having business before the honorable, the Supreme Court for the United States are admonished to give their attention for the court is now sitting
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