Transcripts For CSPAN2 Judith Heumann Being Heumann 20240713

Pamela edwardss, anchor of 6 abc action news morning edition. The screen is yours. Thats wonderful. Andy, in this new age of social distancing its great we can get it done and judy an honor to read your back. A running theme in the book how often people tell you, people who should know, say i had no idea. And im hopeful that people reading your book and joining in on the conversation tonight will be brought up to speed on what your fight has been about and all the changes you have made and in fact thats where i wanted to start to give people a little bit of a perspective. I wanted you to do a compare and contrast what it was like when you were a young person. You opened the back talk about your childhood in brooklyn. What isth it wag like to be a person come thing into world with a disability and what its like now, the differences you see. Guest well, on the one hadnt the differences are very, very significant because when i had polio in 1949 in brooklyn, there was just the beginning of television, and i think we really need to recognize the Important Role that television has made and we get into discussing that as we go forward. There will no laws that protected the rights of to disabled people. There way werent many rights respecting the lights of other minorities so disabled people not being producted wasnt unusual but people were very much looking at disability as a medical issue and looking at the issue of curing disability. So, they really wasnt a lot of activity going on to look at discrimination as a component of what was happening to disabled people, and so over the beginning of my life, my parents were beth German Jewish refugees, they came over in the 30s, met met in the 40s after my father left the marines at the end of the war, and they lost their parents, grandmother on either side and other relatives, so when they got married, it was they were looking to set up a family. And i was born, then my mother was pregnant with my brother, and when i had polio in 1949, she was eight months pregnant. My father just started opening up a busher store with his butcher store with his brother so everything was thrown up in the air and i think to my parents credit, while they didnt know any other families with disabled children they had no idea what was about to happen separate from my having had polio but they really decided they were going to have me live my life like they wanted me to prior to my birth. So my mother took me to school. Was denied the right to go to school because i couldnt walk and at the principal said i was a fire hazard. Didnt actually finally get to go to school until i was nine years old and then wait segregated classes in between the first anding for grade. Only had a teacher the times a week for a total of two and a half hours a week; so, today we have laws on the books that make what would happened to me then illegal. So in 1975 the was an important law that came out in the area of education, in 1973, there was something called section 504. I really encourage people to look at this film, crip camp, on netflix and gives you additional information. Like today, its different in many ways. I would say its specifically because of all the antidiscrimination laws and affirmative action laws, disabled people have more opportunities than they did for sure in the 40s 50,s and 60s, but when looking at discrimination against any group, when we lived in society that have discriminated against people based on their religion,en their race, on the disable, it doesnt change that rapidly. And so i think what has been happening is that the Disability Community has been organizing more, becoming empowered amongst ourselves, we have been reaching out into the general society, basically saying, we want to be able to be equal members in the community. There is a much a movement of disabled people which did not exist at that time, and the movement itself is moving away from the medical model and really looking at the social justice and rights based model. Host its something you say that. Read you book and watched crip camp on net nix and talk about a place you mentioned in the book, the first place where honestly you just got be a person, just got be a kitchened werent defined by ability or disability, and theres a moment when all of the kids are talking, and the things they say they want are just so basic, and normal for everyday teenagers and everyday humans, and really hit me when one person said i just would like my privacy. Everybody saw a teenager get of it new room i want my privacy. They want to ability to be bad, the ability to have the boyfriendgirlfriend to be seen sexually to exist in a world and made my think about how we look at people with disabilities whether theyre physical, mental, emotional, or otherwise, were very quick to almost try to turn them into children, to flatten them to make them simplistic in a way, and it sort of reminded me or taught me just like everybody else, there is a really rich interior life, theres person who wants to be heard, and deserves to be heard and i emergency thats at the heart of your argue; were no different than you are. Guest right. And i think you shaped it very well, and for me, some of the issues are that it is frequently difficult for disabled people to really talk about that part of themselves. We typically grow up in familied where were the only disabled person. As opposed to families of a particular race or gender. You have a mother, grandmother, aunt and uncle, friends. In the area of disable i didnt know any disabled people until i started going to segregated classes when i was nine years old. And then when i went to camp, those were types where both school and these other experiences where i could speak about the whole of myself. I could talk but what i was beginning to feel as i got older and articulate things in a way that children cant. Why couldnt i get on a bus . Why cooperate people have to the same expectations. Why did people stare at me, of what it might have been, and equally important, i didnt hear people talking to me or my friends about a future. So, as you were growing older, and certainfully todays society, people are talking about what do you want to be when you grow up . People didnt talk to me and my friends what did we want to be when we grow up but be did want to be something and those their discussions that we would have, and comment you made about treating disabled people as children, that i think is a very powerful statement because for me, even today, when we were able to good out it would not be uncommon i good to an airport, going to give a speech in another part of the country or world or whatever, and people dont talk to me. They talk with people im with. Who are there to assist me. Theyll say what does she want . That happens all the time. And i would say, in getting back to earlier question how it seems different, things are very different and theyre very the same. Because the absence of disability in television, in advertising, in journalism, in media broadly, continues to marginalize us and you also were referring to the breadth of who we are as disabled people and thats a very important issue, its not just those of us who are physical disabilities. Its those of us with depression or anxiety or bipolar or diabetes or cancer or epilepsy or any one of a number of hundreds of disabilities, and i think what we still find, although its improving, is that many disabled people do not want to identify. If they have a visible disability, because of the stigma, because of how theyre treated. They dont necessarily want to hang out with other disabled people. But as we are doing more together, were learning both about the commonality of experiences, and the differences of experiences. So, now you know its a pandemic. One of the big issues thats being discussed has to do with africanamericans and latinos who are dying at higher rates, and they talk about underlying conditions, which are diabetes, hypertension, obesity, all of these are disabilities and so people are in some cases at greater risk and many cases theyre not getting the services they need along the way because theyre poor or other reasons. But i do hope that one of the outcomes of this tragedy is we really are able to have more in depth discussions about why it is so important that our Disability Community, which according to the federal government in the u. S. , numbers 56 million people. Wow. Guest and according to the World Health Organization and the world bank, at least 15 of the population of the world, one billion people, have disabilities. So, my book is trying to do a combination of things. One is reflect me as i was growing up, and how i experienced life as things moved forward but also i hope, like riff crip camp, get poem to start thinking more about do they have a disability that maybe they know they have a disability but dent know how to discuss it . Do they have people in their family or friends and what kind of a dialogue do we really need to be having to ensure thattivable across our community is something that im learning more about and looking at what we can do to really help break down the barriers and look at what discrimination is, and what role were playing in fostering that. Host its interesting because part of what people know is what is in the culture, its what is talk about, what is taught, as an africanamerican, the Civil Rights Movement is clearly something i grew up learning about and not just free family but in popular cull noor school and you think but other moms the gay rights movement, the womens movement, story that even if youre not paying attention, dont care you know that the basic pin points of what happened and your point net book as crip camp came out other documentaries, people you thought would be in the no would say i have no idea and honestly i had no idea. Your fight was not a fight that leasts for weeks of months. You lay our fights that lasted for decades. That beg the case why are we not aware of the fight around disability rights and civil rights the same we are the other movements. Guest why do you think . Host i dont know. Theres this decision obviously not to teach it in schools. Theres the decision not to talk about it as much and feels as though for whatever reason, people do not put people in the Disability Group in that same protected class or concerned class. Hulu hays something on right mountain mrs. America, going back through Phyllis Schlafly and the fight over the era. I cant say the last time i have on Major Television the story but disabilities right and you say disabled are the villains or the tragic antihero and never the romantic lead, never the best person in the movie. Guest or if they are they dont have disability. Two years ago coming home with john voigt im dating myself service im 72. This in the seven inside he was a positive character, playing a paraplegic. However, he didnt he doesnt really have a disability. And my left foot, all these movies where there are positive messages, forrest gump, played by nondisabled people. A whole other issue. One of the basic issues around why are we not seeing more is a combination. One is i think people are afraid of acquiring a disable themselves. They look at people like myself or whomever, and they say, i dont know how hey do it. Couldnt do it. They dont really know what it is and they dont really know not only what it is that we are doing but they dont really also think about themselves and their future. And the reason i say that is a little bit of a discussion i had when i was doing the show, it when he used to write able bodied and i said no i dont use the order age bodied because i use the word nondisage nondisabled. Dont use the word able because it says im not abled and i dont want to say the word i have disability because it should should be something they injured. Withty terminology people using able or disabled. Maybe not intentional lawsuit i think its the tomorrow that we use, like racist, is ableist, so i think that is an issue. I also think as you were discussing, not seeing and learning about disablity and the way disabled people are characterized and infrequently even when we are characterized, i think that also leaves people who have questions afraid of asking them. So, things have gotten a little better in the following way. Going down he street, i use a motorizeed wheelchair people will be curious. They havent seen one and so in some cases, they want to ask a question. And we used to call it the potato chip issue. So, a child wants to ask you a question, the parents would pull the child away, distract them, so they didnt ask the question. For me, and this is not true of everybody, some people do not like to be asked what your disability. For me i really dont mind if somebody asks, and for children, i really want to engage them. First of all when im going down the street and their kids in a baby carriage were more on the same eye level. I am definitely drawn to them because i watch their eyes. And they look at my wheels and little boys lochte wheels all the time, little girls not so much. But talking to them and getting the parents engaged, some parents are totally there. Theyre kind of cool about it and theyll neil down and well excuse the wheelchair and point out where the batteries are and where the chair gets plugged in and all these others and others that just like please stop embarrassing me. Dont ask anymore questions. You can just see it. But i think that the absence means people have logical questions. Were not the majority of people in society. Whether were blind or deaf or hard of hearing, or have a physical disable or invisible disability, people need to understand. Children and adults need to understand, and i think really one of the biggest issues is, people dont see themselves acquiring a disable. And people break preliminaries all the time. And its a temporary disability. But as people get older, their sight, their hearing, their ability to communicate, their ability to ambulate as independently as before, they may have other kinds of memory issues, and we tend to look at marginalizing people. What do you need to be prepared for in the event that any of these events happened not in a negative way but in a positive way. What does one need to do in order to stay in their community. And really be willing to look at some of the more difficult questions so that you are in charge, i think thats really important. As long as you can be in charge or you have systems set up where other people you know and respect can be helping i think those are many of the issues but ultimately people that want, people are really afraid and another thing judy, that stood out to me i didnt learn until watching crib cam you talk a little bit about in the book your parents being told you should but her into an institution. They said absolutely not. Thats not what we are doing with our daughter but theres a moment where Geraldo Rivero goes to a place called willowbrook. I dont think ive seen anything more upsetting and dehumanizing barely any workers, disabled children, less naked covered in their own feces not being allowed to eat. No time to feed them just storehouse. It looked like something that Charles Dickens could not have imagined and the fact that this existed in the last century and was allowed was shocking to me. In pennsylvania there was an institution called pintos and i believe it was in the philadelphia area. It was very equivalent to willowbrook. Most of those big institutions are closed, one of the things that you can see happening now is People Living in the Nursing Homes and other congregate living programs, some are quite large. Not as large as willowbrook, not in the thousands but 20, 30, 40, 50 people. Not only are those programs bad for the individual person come but theyre bad for the community because they continue to perpetuate this image that disabled people need to be out of sight out of mind and then people are not treated as people as individuals. Now during the pandemic, as i said earlier, were looking at this issue of higher rates of death among the People Living in these facilities and among the workers. The workers are also not treated appropriately. The right model is people need to be able to live in their own home that they were in or they need to be able to live in apartments and other places with one or two people and it shouldnt be these larger congregate living programs which are really bad models. I visited willowbrook after Geraldo Rivera had been given the keys by two of the doctors at willowbrook and i went with a nun and a reporter. When we got there a friend of mine was one of the doctors who had broken open the story and when we got there to get a pass they were not can you let me in. They wanted me to sign a paper that if i got injured i would not sue them. Of course i would not sign any kind of paper like that. It was a horrifying experience. When i worked for the state department i was in mexico and i got some employees of the state department to come and visit and institution with me in mexico city. Because theres an Organization Called the facility Rights International and they do work around the world on issues affecting people with Mental Health and psychosocial and intellectual disability. They been doing reporting on conditions in mexico and many other countries. It was the first time that staff from the state department had ever gone and visited an institution like this. When we drove to the institution the smell of urine was so overpowering even before we got onto the ground and while people were laying around naked like an willowbrook, there were one or two people who were there was no activity going on and you had many many People Living there. These models still exist in other countries and people are afraid in this country that because whats going on right now instead of looking at moving people into the community more where expeditious reasons, they might be looking at putting people in more restrictive environment. Which the community would really fight against. In the book what i took away from it on so many levels so many stories you tell people should understand, being a good disabled is exhausting not because of a disability but because of other people the unnecessary hardships they bring to it you talk about going to a medical review with the doctor who was completely off point in trying to understand if you were a teacher or going to get on a plane they wont let you on the plane or a million times over you have the conversation as you try to advocate for other people or participate in programs, were afraid something will happen to them and you like arent you afraid something is gonna happen to everybody . They will be fine. You almost have to gird yourself a bottle every day. If you go back your self or listen to your family grandparent stories that this issue of guarding yourself might be different types of scenarios but really come as a woman, as a black woman, its something you really want to go away and i think your story like my story, things have gotten better but things will just pop up and hit you in the face and you didnt expect it and you dont how to answer it for me urine different situations. By that i mean sometimes its okay, im going to completely come back and tear you up but in other situations youre really needing to measure how you say what you say, who you say it to. I think what gets challenging and makes me angry and sad is how much it still happens. If you get to see the film crypt camp i kind of cried a lot and i think sometimes i cry when im angry. I heard a friend of mine the other day who also said the same thing and having nothing to do with disability but sometimes when she is really angry she goes to cry. Theres two places in the movie, a group of 150 people had taken over the Federal Building in San Francisco because a set of regulations on a law called section 504 cohabiting discrimination against disabled people in programs that got ab comparable to a portion of the Civil Rights Act of 1954 had been in the building, really exhausting people were really fighting hard to get these regulations signed to congress then king tim the building to hold hearings and they had a representative from the Health Education and Welfare Office come under the carter administration. The gentleman sat in the front and i was testifying and he kept shaking his head theres something about what happened while he was doing that where i completely lost it. I was giving my talk and then at the end i said, i wish he would stop shaking your head like you understand what im saying because you dont. Then i didnt cry but i was tearing and the audience applauded abwe showed this all over the world. That particular part people applaud all the time. The reason why think they applaud is not because of what i did but because what i did is what they want to do. The number of times when we confront where people are saying or doing something or we understand we dont mean it. Whatever it may be or we do understand it, get out of here, whatever it may be, your skin, your race, your orientation, whatever it is, thats what people need to really understand. Not just about disability but in my view about discrimination overall. Discrimination hurts. Discrimination can result in death. Discrimination can result in nonequal treatment, lack of education, lack of employment opportunities, income, on and on but we all need to have a better understanding of what as a society our vision is. For me one of the parts of the book that was important was trying to really remember how i felt in these different incidences. To try to make them as real as possible and one of the things i hear from disabled people around the world is how reading the book as their story and that is very powerful and like comments you are making about the book and many other people who dont have disability saying we didnt know the story. I think the question of why didnt we know this story i think its because people really havent wanted to. I think whats great about crypt camp and the book is that if you are willing to take the time to read the book if youre willing to take time to watch the movie, you get a better understanding but of course reading the book and watching the film is not going to change the world. Reading other peoples books the more people who grab this disability writing this books the great woman 20 years 28yearold black lesbian woman with Cerebral Palsy in upstate new york shes funny, shes smart, shes written a great book thats out. And other people like that. So reading and saying to our local television stations and producers of movies, why are we not seeing more . Why are we not seeing disability with people from all different backgrounds . Its an important question. At the end of the book you talk about where we are now because you go through so many administrations it takes three or four president s before 504 finally makes its way through. Then you talk about where we are today, do you find yourself after all these years of being in the fight, hopeful that the things you fought for will remain fearful that they will be stripped away . They often say that we exist on a pendulum things go back and forth, do you feel we will swing back toward protecting those rights are afraid we are swinging away from doing anything for them . I think the movement has gotten stronger. Obviously when the book was written and went to print, none of the situation we are living in had occurred yet. And very afraid about the Lasting Impact of the pandemic. Not just a narrative disability but across the board and what i know our community is going to be fighting for is making sure that laws which protect our rights which protect the rights of others i think thats one very important part of the changes that have occurred over the years that Leadership Conference of civil rights for example, which is a very Broad National Organization Includes disability and disabled organizations in their work its an Organization Called the International Disability alliance siding on an International International level in Important Convention that came out of the United States, the United Nations called the convention of the rights of persons with disabilities which was modeled after the americans with disabilities act has been ratified in 176, 177 countries. That particular treaty in the americans with disabilities act and other we must fight for like all other Civil Rights Act we must not allow i think our community is more at the table than it was in the past. So we are right now playing an Important Role saturday caseys office for example he is doing an amazing job and has been his entire term in office really fighting for the rights of disabled individuals including people with intellectual and developmental and Mental Health disabilities. He is from my perspective the champion that is making sure the voices of disabled people are engaged all the time. Adding weekly telephone calls to greet people to engage people. While i am concerned very much for the country and the world, i do believe we have a better ability to fight against the kinds of changes some people may want and im really hoping in the fall with the elections that we can make some changes so we have to be less fearful because were not represented by someone who has is very respectful to us. As i was watching crypt camp they show pictures of you being a teenage girl sitting there with your friends and now we can see the arc of what you want to do with eli. You always wonder what somebody steps into a moment whether rosa parks and Martin Luther king are Gloria Steinem or somebody out of all the people in the world she chose to step and then that moment and youve truly been that person when it comes to disability rights, would you pick it was about judy human that made you the person who was at the forefront of somebody in these fights . Im really thankful to my parents. In their own way, they didnt know what advocacy was but they learned about it my mother with the support of my father with stepbystep try to address what was happening. I think thats definitely part of it. Other friends of mine we would do the camp genetics experience talking about it but i think something within me i was born in philadelphia but grew up in brooklyn and i do actually talk about if i wasnt born in brooklyn i probably would be the person i am today. I really do believe you can make it in new york, you can make it anywhere and i think i learned really early on that i had to say something. When things were going on that i felt were wrong, i had to say something. I had to try to do something. Ive never been a person to want to do things by myself. Ive always wanted to work with other people. For me we each play a different role i think im a reasonably good stab at this i have a reasonably decent mouth to speak but i have other friends who were great writers and do all these things when we come together we make a great team and i think thats really why any movement moves slower because the people who are adversely affected by discrimination or whatever the issue may be, theres a bond between enough people to be able to not only complain about the problem but really look at solutions for me its recognizing solutions dont happen overnight even when you make big gains like with legislation, getting that legislation implemented and getting people to understand what is wrong with racism . What is wrong with antisemitism . What is wrong with table as him. Whats wrong with all these Different Things . I think that to me is a challenge and i love working with people to try to make change. Judy, we are all, all of us whatever categories we are in out of we are all the beneficiaries of the work that youve done and its been an honor to get to spend some time, socially distant as we have to be these days, to spend some time with you. I think andy is going to come back in and of the people part of the crowd cast will get to ask you questions but for my own behalf i just want to say, thank you for what youve done and im glad to be aware of it and ive learned so much hopefully will shake my behavior Going Forward. Hopefully i will get to see you in philadelphia someday. I will buy you a cheesesteak and a pretzel. Okay. I appreciate you doing this. We will see you soon in real life i hope. These days will and, as always, andy, its been a joy. I want to meet your children. You say that judy, be careful what you ask for. No, i do. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of the night guys. Hi judy. Hi. We have a ton of questions that have come in. Unfortunately we are only going to be able to get to a handful of them so im going to jump right in. The first question that people seem to want to ask is how do you wrestle with the urge to advocate, educate and change the world with just trying to live your life are there times you get exhausted by teachable moments . My husband says the same thing all the time he is always complaining i work too much but im kind of driven. Sometimes i get very frustrated by how long it takes to make change and how people in many cases still dont get it and therefore not fighting, theyre not even fighting but just dont understand why its important for disabled people to have jobs and looking at what needs to be done in a business to ensure someone able to do the job can get accommodations that they may need. Im jewish like upset a number of times and one thing the Jewish Community has over the last 20 years but really more in the last 10 years in part because of foundation in boston called the rhodamine foundation the rhodamine foundation has taken on a number of issues one of which has really been to look within the Jewish Community the orthodox, the conservative, on and on and how to develop discussions that allow us within our community to look at what we need to learn and what types of specific changes need to be going on within our institution. That to me has been hard and painful in many ways because of some of the things i said earlier, sometimes its difficult to tell someone that you sit next to when you go to services that youre really upset with some of their thinking and to be able to be strategic about how you talk with people to get some of these issues moved forward. I try to be a change agent. And sometimes i just check out after very long because im a complete abwhat do you do when you check out . What is checking out for Judith Heumann . I try to spend more time with my husband. I like to go to movie theaters, because im not good at just being idle or still when im here. Go to theater, ballet, whatever. Then you are there so you have to focus on it. Lets see, more questions, i found it very interesting that the black panthers helped you out during the crucial sit in coming to the relationship indoor afterward . It depends, in the organizing of the 504 demonstration was a member of the black panthers and his assistant also then brad lomax unfortunately passed away. But the relationship continued i would say they were supportive of the work that was going on within the Disability Unit community and that was really important. Thats one thing in the bay area San Francisco bay area that the center for independent living, which started in the early 70s, very much worked with all types of organizations addressing issues of discrimination and we got support from different groups when we needed them and they would come to us and we would take with them on different issues. I think it was at that time a really important period of learning and when we have the demonstrations in 1977, which lasted for about 20 days, there was daily support outside the building of people demonstrating it wasnt just the black panther that supported us but actually the gray panthers was one of the groups involved in them ab church their minister is a great activist and real social justice person. Cesar chavez and other supported our work, eleanor chenille, other laboring unions they were very supportive when we took a group of 20 people and went to washington. We could not have done that by ourselves. No movement in my view can get what they need unless they can eventually get more people supporting him of what needs to happen. So i think thats a principal weve always worked on and continue to work on. Heres another question, i understand the camp was disbanded due to financial constraints, were there no offers to buy the camp and keep its good work going end. I have no idea. The answer is no because otherwise it would have been sustained. I think its very interesting that the camps like many there were many different camps around the United States for disabled children. They were camps for disabled children because regular camps didnt abthats another interesting point. Today there are all kinds of camps that kids go to to study that technology or theater or the stock or the other, my brothers went to a jewish summer camp and they went there to have fun but also one of the things they were learning there was about culture and chavez and things around nature. When we went to the camp for disabled kids none of that was considered like a part of the camp. People were not thinking about this is a great opportunity for disabled kids to get together and Start Talking about how they feel as disabled people what are the problems were there solutions but thats what happened. Young people will say sometimes, what should we do . One thing i always tell people is dont wait to get permission from older people. What you want to do and yes lets try to Work Together but like the way he believed in and move forward with it. Thats exactly what we did and we didnt know a lot. We were looking at television and learning about the Civil Rights Movement we were learning about the marches we were learning about the boycotts. We were learning about rosa parks we were learning about Martin Luther king and so many other leaders and what we were learning was that people believed in what they were doing and they would fight as long as they had to in the path of this way and other ways to be able to make changes that could positively affect community and those are very important things they were learning and trying to emulate in their own way. So i feel like we are very thankful for lessons we learned over the years and working work collaboratively with other movements i think is really paying off for us over others. Throughout the course of the book the support of your family plays an essential role, what advice would you give to young advocates with disabilities that lack the support of their families . And how do you overcome the fear in order to advocate . I appreciate the fact that you acknowledge the issue of fear and i also think its a completely inappropriate word. I believe that i did discuss it in some way with pamela because one can be afraid legitimately depending on the situation youre in. I think its very important to try to speak with other disabled people to talk with them about situations or other people, doesnt necessarily have to be someone with disability but someone who has experienced discrimination to try to learn from them about what is it mean to be fearful . And what do you need to do to try to overcome it . I dont mean overcome their fear, i mean try to address the problem. So for me, an example, i was in new york i was going to the restaurant a Chinese Restaurant and had a couple of other friends who had disabilities we decided to go into this restaurant because it had enough space for more than one wheelchair. When we got in there we were told we couldnt stay. The manager owner, whatever said we had to leave. That was one of these moments where at first i was afraid like my god, this guy is saying that because we have this disabilities we cant be here and then it was, well, am i going to leave . No way. So what am i going to do . I said, call the police. He didnt call the police. So we stayed and we had dinner. One could argue we shall left and not give him money but on the other point we wanted to prove a point. Was i afraid . I definitely was. Was it because i was with other people i could talk about it and we could talk about it together . You absolutely. Continuing to talk about it today because incidents are still happening in spite of the fact that we have laws. The point that you made about having a family that supported one understanding why they are not but on the other hand you need to do whats right for you and maybe im sure you had some discussions with that but finding other people may be other adults who have childrens with disability where they are being more supportive of their children and learning from the other parent but i think at the end of the day its finding other people you can relate to and talk to you to grow up and keep fighting for what you believe in and get support for people who help you move along the way and grow up to be the person you want to be. Thank you. A number of people have written in to thank you and they say they were moved by the film and moved by the book so i want to acknowledge that there are a number of people with disabilities from various communities who are saying that and just thanking you from the bottom of their hearts. Let me move on to maybe one or two more questions. You sort of address to this already but i think this person is looking for a specific moment in some direction. This is from my son nonspeaking adult who uses spelling on or if alphabet were to communicate. Youre an inspiration to me. When did you start to realize that if change was going to happen, you would have to be reading it, you would have to be leading it . And never seen myself as a leader. I see myself as abmy mother was a leader one of the situations going on when i was growing up was i finally got to go to school as i said earlier, when i was nine years old but was only in segregated classes and a school for nondisabled kids we went to classes in the basement then my mother learned that because i was in a wheelchair all students who use wheelchairs and couldnt walk up and down steps going back onto home instruction for high school. So my mother organized with other mothers so im sure she was afraid, she didnt know really what she was doing except she began to realize that working together things could happen. For me by model as typically been even if i am doing something on the spot like an issue with the airplane when they arrested me on an airplane for flying without someone else, i was there by myself but i always would talk to people. I really appreciate the fact that people are resonating to my story but at the end of the day whats really important is that people recognize that it does take a village to make change that we all play a different role in that its really important for us to stay in touch with each other to be supportive of each other and to play the role that feels right for us at that moment. To move forward and take on more and more room responsibilities if they choose. Someone asks the sort of circles back to the beginning of the book in the beginning of your talk this evening, did you have any experiences with children your age before the age of nine . If not, how do you think that impacted you . I had polio when i was 18 months old. Obviously i dont really remember anything about that and then when i was about four years old and went to a rehab center in manhattan called risk institute. My father would bring me there on monday mornings and pick me up friday afternoons. These were some of the areas my parents became advocates. They wanted the kids to stay over the weekend and my parents said, no, i wasnt going to stay over the weekend because Nothing Happened over the weekend and they wanted me to be home with the family. My father would pick me up friday, i would get there early monday morning. I remember at that time meeting other disabled people particularly older people so that have a little bit of an impact on me because that was really the only time i was seeing other adults with disabilities who were productive. They were there for a reason. Some of the people at the hospital also worked there so that mightve been the first time i ever saw disabled people working. What was the question again . The last part, let me go back and see, it went right out of my head after i asked it. Sorry. Thats okay. How to influence people. That period of time from when i was five years old until i was nine years old was very with my brothers and my neighbors all of whom didnt have disabilities, i went to Hebrew School with my family because it was a small synagogue we went every sunday and then i started going to another Hebrew School and i was the only disabled kid. Theres an incident in the book where i talk about how when i was i was about eight years old, remember at that time there were no such thing as motorized wheelchairs. All of the houses in the neighborhood i lived in, except for hours with my parents had a ramp built in the back, none of them were accessible. I always had people pushing my wheelchair because i wasnt really Strong Enough to push my own and as i went into neighbors houses i always had to be carried in and out. The issue of independence was something that didnt really come into play later on because i was so dependent on other people. When i had polio my parents built a bedroom and bathroom on the back of the house but it was very big and i couldnt get the closet. My mother had to go to the closet it wasnt enough room. Even things like picking up my clothes, making choice, its difficult because she had two other kids. And she was my mother. She knew what i wanted she knew what she wanted me to wear. I didnt have the basic experiences go to the closet pick out what you want to wear, if your mother says no, take it off i dont like it, bring it back, i didnt have that ability. I think one of the issues around special classes camps in particular was it was a time we were able to make more decisions on our own. We would go get our own clothes out or counselors would ask what you are aware they would stick things out you. Little things like that every important because kids learning how to make choices and decisions even how to argue with an adult and tried to set forward those are all very important things. One of the points discussed earlier about when you watch it you will see theres this Group Discussion and part of the Group Discussion focuses on rosenblum in particular but others who dont have the level of independence and its not just the physical independence, its also, one of the reasons i think its important for parents with disabled children to know adults with disability is to be able to talk about some of these issues. To be able to talk about what can be done so that you are not allencompassing in your child lie. How do you help ensure your child is age appropriately being able to make decisions. Those are all very important things. Someone like myself and others there is a degree of dependence we have on other people but choosing who we want to help us when we want them to help us, how we want them to help us those are all things that we need to be able to learn in some way how to deal with. And people need, depending on the type of disability someone has, people need to be really conscious of how people may express satisfaction if they cant necessarily articulate it clearly we know for example that Sexual Violence other forms of violence are much higher in the Disability Community. For many many reasons. But its very important that we need to recognize is a problem, we need to look at whats being done to address it and one thing that frequently happens is were not looking at the data were not looking at the causes and institutions are another cause of violence against disabled individuals. We read about it in the paper when things are really bad the daily things that go on we dont even hear about. And i would assume in this smaller homes where people are living on their own its not as much of an issue where there are just one or two people. Especially if people are getting the support they need to make sure their issues they can discuss. There are so many questions and we just dont have time unfortunately. We will do it again. Okay, we will see you here tomorrow night 7 30 p. M. [laughter] one last question, somebody says, what would be different today of the history of disability rights were incorporated into the curriculum and how do you think it would affect disabled and nondisabled children in the years Going Forward and into adulthood . I would say that it would be positive, we would have more knowledge we would have a greater ability to have discussions and not be afraid of asking questions as much. People are afraid of asking questions. We would be able to look at problems and solutions and we would be able to learn from whats gone on in other movements what are some Common Solutions in different solutions. For example, lets talk about rosa parks, rosa parks was arrested because she refused to go to the back of the bus. It was a boycott and then the result of the boycott was people could sit any place in the bus they wanted. The equivalent in the area of disability really isnt there, wasnt there. Because i couldnt get on the bus and other people with physical disability couldnt get on the bus because they worked abpeople didnt want to make them acceptable. Where are we going to put ramps on the street people are going to use them . Why do we need accessible bathrooms, people are going to use it . Why do we need braille . Why do we need sign language . Why do we need captioning . Why do we need any of these things . Would people to understand the benefits to us as if they were people but also the universality i love to talk about it in washington dc we have a metro system which has trains and buses the way trains became acceptable in the 1970s when they were being constructed was a lawsuit against the city and the company that was contracted to make the train. If that had to happen we wouldnt have accessible traits. Fastforward into the 80s, 90s, 2000. When i go to an elevator for the metro its very common that there are 125 baby carriages signed up at the elevator because they cant use the escalator. People have no idea that the reason for the elevator is because disabled people fought for that. We didnt just fight for them for ourselves, we fought for them for ourselves and because we clearly understand the vast majority of things we need, benefit other people. If people were really learning from when they were younger, if disabled and nondisabled children were going together to schools, to camps, early childhood, the high school, if in gender studies in latino studies of disability was a part of the work that was going on then people learn about disability in the context of those other study areas i dont think things would be perfect but i think we would be much better ahead if people understood the link between disability and poverty because of a lack of education or because people poorer at higher rates of requiring various forms of diffuse aba robust intentional inclusion and really looking at where we are and what we need to do, i think would really have a profound impact on our country and the world. It sounds like you blessed us with a lot of work to do your quite the model for us to follow. Judy, thank you so much for all your time tonight and sharing your wisdom with us and thank you for making the world a better place for everyone. Thank you. Youre welcome. Be sure to follow us on comcast and visit us online to access our digital archive and updated schedule which seems to be changing every day. Judy, thanks again, folks, keep reading and have a good night take care, we will talk soon. On our Author Interview program afterwards, netflix director of inclusion Michelle King offered her thoughts on the barriers to succeeding that women face in the workplace. Here are some of the discussion. If are asking women to do something we are not asking men to, we need to really think about it. When it comes to lean in, i think that book was written in a time and place where people really wanted solutions. But like the idea that they alone can overcome an inequality that they have no hand in creating. Even though that logic is quite flawed. For me the problem is, how do you say to people, you can do everything just right you get the qualifications you can have the experience you can get performance ratings is still not succeed because it discriminates because it wasnt designed for difference to support the ideal to advance. People that were closely fit that ideal standard are more likely to advance in organizations so the more you differ from it more challenging you are going to face and thats not something we talk about that organizations are inherently set up the ideal prototype to succeed and that creates a lot of challenges for anybody who might different from the dawn very bad abdon berry ideal abis it something were asking men to do . Do any of these Solutions Work . Some of them dont. If you take for example women dont ask the abtheres a great hpr study that shows thats not the case that women ask for pay rises just as much as mended just 25 less likely to get them and part of the reason is pure discrimination but also women are penalized when they do ask for raises because theyre asserting themselves, they define Standard Society holds for what good looks like for women and almost thankful that you have a job. When women come in their knowing their value and asking for what they are worth they are penalized because they seem to be asserting themselves and what we inherently associate with more masculine attributes. For me the aim is to really try to look at if we have the solutions number one its unfair to ask a woman to do things to fit into a Work Environment that may be will never really value them and number two, to really look at the solutions and say do they work in most cases they dont because theyre not addressing the underlying system of inequality which is really the policies, the process is the practices in terms of daytoday behaviors and some professional belief that leaders and employees have they really value people differently and value men more than women and thats what creates inequality in workplaces. To watch the rest of Michelle Kings interview along with other episodes of afterwards visit our website booktv. Org, and click on the after words tab near the top of the page. Booktv in prime time starts now. Rana el kaliouby discusses using artificial edges of ab Artificial Intelligence to read cues. Their thoughts on how to bestselling author Tara Westover details her life growing up with survivalist parents in the idaho mountains and her introduction to formal education at age 17 and we highlight some programs from our archives on race in america featuring authors such as ebert gandy that all begins now with a discussion on Artificial Intelligence and emotion. Hello everybody, happy friday, im cofounder and its my pleasure to introduce you all to rana el kaliouby, rana, welcome to ivy, how are you . Whats good, how are you, happy friday everybody. Him very well, thank you so much. Really excited to have you here and to share with everybody the full context of what were going to be doing today. Rana is the cofounder and ceo of ashes a pioneer in emotional Artificial Intelligence. We are going to be having a fascinating conversation on how to reclaim our humanity by bringing emotional