Among the characteristics that contributed to those declines were Massive National debt. The United States is a 23 trillion, and growing, just the interest on it alone is greater than the Gross Domestic Product of some nations. I like President Trump state of union speech the other night except for one thing. He didnt talk about cutting a single Government Program or even the rate of increase in spending. This is the only nonpartisan thing that happens in this town is spending. You can always get agreement on more. The second contribution to the decline of great nations and superpowers and empires is uncontrolled immigration without assimilation. We want people to come to america but we want them to come legally and in an orderly fashion, and then to be assimilated like the immigrants of the past and become fully american, not hyphenated americans as we have too often today. Then theres the loss of a moral sense also contributing to the decline of great nations. In America Today as cole porter wrote in the song in 1930s, anything goes. If you say stop or this is too far, you are immediately denounced as a bigot or one of many folks. All of this is not a prophetic book. Im not wearing a sandwich board this is the end is near and parading around but i am saying that while america is a great nation, are certain seeds being sown for our distraction and we have to renew the values that the greatest generation that weve been living off of by inertia for about the last 60 or 70 years fought and died for. Host to that, december again is in peril because of right and wrong and no longer submit to a Higher Authority than own experiences. When i look around the country i see most people mostly trying to do the right thing. Somewhere specifically d. C. Society going wrong . Guest i can i think were tolerating virtually everything now. You take a look at the value of human life. Not just abortion, though we have had 60 million of them since roe v. Wade that there are other challenges now. In chicago, baltimore, in major cities are ten, 15, 20 a more shootings of you weekend, so many now that hardly even makes the news. This is how cheap life has become in america. People getting shot and killed because driveby shootings. Somebody this to me. I wanted a Leather Jacket or the expensive shoes. Now were seeing in the debate over health care and we saw during the Clinton Administration when president clinton put hillary in charge of reporting health care in america called hillary care. The pressure to save money is going to be so great that what you devalue human life at one end, the pressure to devalue it at the other end and a weekly if youre too old according to the government, if you are not contributing enough, if youre taking wasnt getting it will start at the extremes. Things always give a once the precedent is set back by doctor assisted suicide in some states, particularly on the west coast, and its a very slow step to the next step. One of things i mentioned the book also is a whole to millennials, the loss of god oscar trips to the decline of nations and superpowers. You have to resort living on this earth besides getting up, going to work on making money and buying stuff. Theres got to be more to life than that but 20 of millennials according to the polls have no religious affiliation at all. They answered none when asked by the pollsters and i think thats a disturbing trend. Whether you happen to be religious or not. Host a lot of conservatives and your family with this say they believe in american exceptionalism. Is that a little foolish . Guest america is unique among nations but there is no lifetime guarantee on it. As i argue in the book, a lot of these other places, the roman empire, the eternal city, go to the circle i can eternal city, now its ruins. They followed the same pattern as his other nations, overextension, military expedition to one of the other things that contribute to a nations declined his military overreach. George mcgovern in 1972 democratic president ial candidate, senator from south dakota, a friend of mine, said during the vietnam war we cannot be the policeman of the world. Its true. To his great credit President Trump has been jawboning not only our nato allies but others have benefited for decades from the American Nuclear umbrella especially in europe to pony up and pay more and to provide more troops in on defense and i think thats a very good thing. He is certainly on the right path on that issue. Host in your book you go through eight different empires, i think some people may find it tough to draw the parallels between safety Ottoman Empire and what americans are doing. What do you see that is similar . Guest human nature never changes. You can put people in in a tog, address, the suit but you cant change the human nature. Greed, envy, entitlement, sexual pleasure, military overreach, what some people called the seven deadly sins. You cant change human nature and so the point of the book in looking at the history of these various empires and superpowers is to say okay, you had sultans, emperors, all these other titles a people dressing differently and the rest, but they all suffered from the same internal dysfunction. If we dont learn from that, by the way this is why a sense of the transcendent and being accountable to god is important for the extension and life of any nation. Host you also go through its fascinating. You say there are cycles that these empires go through and you compare shop america similar. The thesis is right now with a cycle of decadence. What does that mean exactly . Guest the book is based on an esa by the late british different as you mentioned. The final stage of collapse, and lincoln talked about this. Inc. And said if america is to fail it will fail from within before it is ever conquered from without. Sultanates and who i reprinted his harvard and templeton prize speech in the book, he was asked repeatedly , can you refresh the list as if it is . Guest the great russian writer. Was a patient in the soviet union and he was finally released and came to america to warn america sometime do in this book that there is no lifetime guarantee of any nation. To get back to the decadence thing, as sir john mentioned, theres a common denominator. Theres a loss of essential god, again military overreach, uncontrolled immigration without assimilation. And a focus on self, a loss of the sense of right and wrong as you mentioned earlier. Now today if you say anything is wrong, behavior or whatever your immediately denounced as being one of many kind of phobes. They dont want to be denounced and criticized by the national debt, nobodys talking the last time there was any series addressing host why do you think that is a moral issue . Guest their talked about more government and more programs to dig more people to government. Such member when paul ryan was speaker of the house. He came up with a proposal which everybody knew needed to be done but was afraid to talk about, to reform salsas could and medicare, the two major drivers of the entitlement programs and the debt which continues to grow. He was denounced by the left. The commercial was created, a political ad that showed actor, a paul ryan lookalike pushing grain in a wheelchair over a cliff. It was funny but was not assist respond to Everybody Knows must be done. The politicians both parties continue to kick the can down the road. We need to reform social security. Not Everybody Needs it. It should be jack kemp filets august and from woelfel argued you to go, that anybody who touches the president in a state union speech and were quite a guarantee you can keep a substituted. That sounds great but Everybody Knows that you cannot continue to spend and spend with more and more people retiring and fewer people working for the programs are going to be bankrupt. The politicians dont want to do anything about it. Kick the can down the road. They are afraid they will be denounced by paul ryan. Host to talk about the loss of a sense of duty and it seems to me like his politicians to refuse to take on these issues dont have a sense of duty. How do you think we could restore that . Guest gender people dont serve in the military and dont know anybody who did. When i was growing up, not only my dad that many relatives serve in the the military. Host my generation, ive a lot of friends who voluntarily joined the military after 9 11 and theres millions of people that are in active duty right now without a traffic i do feel like when we talk about millennials, the younger generation, they get swept under the rug because in your generation people were drafted and he did have a choice but my brother is part of the marine corps, joined voluntarily. Saw a lot of loss and they get swept under the rug as if young kids dont care. I think a lot of people do. Guest they do but i love my critique of what ought to do some kind of Public Service to serve the country, could be the military, might be in private, could be in addition to the job. We get a lot of benefits to the freedoms we enjoy are not the natural state of humanity. If you look around the world, despotism, religious, religious fundamentalism, denial of womens right, lack of the free press, all these things seem to be the norm. We have to renew like a library book. They have to be renewed in order for you legitimately to continue evolving experience. Its the same with the values that build and sustain america. We have been through the revolutionary war against the supreme power, the civil war, a great depression, recessions, the vietnam war. Now were facing perhaps the greatest challenge of all, terrorism and the growth of china, and its aggressiveness around the world under the radar for a lot of people. They are Building Bases in the south china sea, holding bases in south america in our back door and nobody is addressing these things. These values, we cant live of the inertia of the previous generations who shared thin. And yes, god bless those people volunteered for military not only after 9 11 but since then. For whatever reason, some just volunteer to get their tuition paid for, and thats fine. We are grateful for the. Host they dont get it for the benefit i can tell you. The v. A. Has not been run that well lately. The difference between the greatest generation, there is something may be different and i think you are right, he it goeo a loss of sense of duty, maybe patriotism, shared values. What do you see . Maybe gets back to faith . Guest thats part of it but the whole idea of obligatio obligation, we have an obligation to transfer to our children and grandchildren the virtues and values that we inherited from our grandparents and parents if we are of a certain age. Most of the world war ii generation is gone now. We still honor them in various ways that only with her own memorial in washington but remember the super bowl where several veterans of world war ii were 100 years old, 100 being the birthday of the nfl, nice little connection there. But they are fading and you will remember i think maybe you didnt live through it, youre such a a young person but certainly you study the history, those who came back from vietnam were spat upon, or demonstrate against, were treated as murderers and the rest. We havent really seen an appreciation of those have served their country and served with honor and distinction. Duty, honor, country. Those are the three things. We dont teach patriotism anymore. They have done away with the pledge of allegiance and a lot of schools because my defense of the people come from other countries. Excuse me, if you want to pledge allegiance to your country, then why did you come here . If you dont teach these values, if you dont yes, indoctrinate those virtues which has a negative connotation but in the area of freedom, duty and honr have to be taught, you have to have them inculcated in you. Judo catch them naturally like to catch a virus. Host im curious about your thoughts on the current Political Department because of your history with faith and politics. You were a Founding Member or pattern of the moral majority but you didnt did break with n she saw her perceived the leadership is been seduced by power. It seems like there are a lot of parallels today. Guest there are and i learned that virtue and morals do not come from the top down. They come from the bottom up and thats been true battle in this country but in virtually every other nation that has been sustained beyond its birthday. I think that faith is something that can be transferred to others, but it cant be done by the government. You cant expect especially people who do not believe as i do to accept what i believe based on legislation or president or an election. I think you can argue in the Public Square with that saying youre trying to impose biblical values on people, certain things that are common to all humanity, treating others with respect, equality for women, golden rule, love of the people as you love yourself. We could use more of that in washington which asked about politics. Ive been doing my call now for almost 36 years. Host congratulations. Twice a week. Guest do the math. Things have changed a lot. Part of this is the 24 7 new cycle the part is a polarization that ive not seen since really the vietnam war and i would argue its even worse. People dont know each other anymore except by labels. People dont talk to each other. People tune into radios and tv programs what ill rethink and they dont listen. Host you have made the point trying to reach people to try to find Common Ground. You wrote a book called the Common Ground and you think thats harder to do no treachery its hard to do now. After that call, what works and what argument was look, i dont care if its a liberal or conservative, democrat or republican program. Lets have an unbiased look at it. It is producing the results as advertised by its charter legislation at the response cost and it cant be done better by the private sector, we keep it. If not we get rid of it. We do that in business if you go to sales plan in your business and its working, great. But if your competition is selling more items than you are, and the plan is sailing, and you get rid of it or equal out of business. Why cant we do that with governor Ronald Reagan had one of the greatest lines of all time. He said the only proof of eternal life in washington is a Government Program. Its easier to kill a vampire then i covet program. We can even reduce the rate of spending much less had it. You dont do that in business. There was a federal tea tasting commission for years before that went out of business. There was a National Helium reserve when people thought that dirigibles might be useful in warfare and after the hindenburg explosion in the 1930s, thats probably pardon the expression, shot that down. This is a problem. Once a program gets past they forget about it. The bureaucracy grows. I did a recent interview with sect of education betsy devos. Shes trying to cut and cut and cut the federal presence in public education. Bill bennett our predecessor in the Reagan Administration try to get rid of the department of education. Couldnt do it. Congress wouldnt let him do it. I think we need a top to bottom look at our government, its purpose and the increasing loss of individual freedom as government grows. Host i was struck on the topic of christians in government, any media. You wrote in a recent column that to date evangelicals are perceived by many as one more Interest Group attached to the Republican Party and a special present for. If members need to make a choice as to which one is the true master, they cant serve both. What made you want to write that . Guest a lot of evangelical brethren, i think, i love President Trumps policies. I think that working better than any president , republican or democrat weve had in recent years, whether its unemployment or employment across all demographics, whether its stock market which continues to set records. Host you think that is him for the fact there was unified republican government and business that some of the pressure was relieved . Guest it has been unified since he was elected. The first year or so people are still come democrats were still crediting president obama. President power is limited in certain ways but a lot of it has to do with Consumer Confidence which is also. You asked the question about the evangelicals and the feelings towards President Trump. In terms of issues whether its prolife, religious freedom, second amendment, he has been better than any republican or democrat present including the sainted Ronald Reagan in my memory. You are a lot of them like his personality quirks to a lot of them like his Language Arts no. But if given the choice in 2016 between Hillary Clinton who was far less liberal in their minds and trump who may have been imperfect morally, and arent we all . But who appealed to the on the basis of the policies of which they believe. We will have the same choice this year, and jesus said my kingdom is not of this world, so thats the higher kingdom, and the eternal kingdom, and all the rest is just the rest. Host i am sympathetic to voters who make the choice, a binary choice. Between one and the other. But in washington is a lot of christian republicans who have to make a choice about how they can serve a president who forces people to defend really tough things. Things that unchristian like behavior. What advice do you have towards a faithful in person who is asked to serve the president but might be uncomfortable with some of those things . Guest in terms of christian like behavior, im not 100 in that area either. We are all sand and fallen short of the glory of god. We are all present on the upward way. Look, nobody is perfect. There congress that are in perfect people. Bill clinton certainly had his problems. Lyndon johnson, jack kennedy was covered up for all of the affairs he was having. If this is the king of this world and this is how it operates and get to look beyond that in some areas and decide on the policy matters. Its too easy to say we are not electing a deacon or held in her church, we are electing a president of the treaty. It would be great to have somebody who combine all these things, like mike pence. Ive known mike pence for 30 years. Hes a serious christian. He was made fun of when he said he wouldnt be with a woman unless his wife was present. A lot of people mocked him but then came the Harvey Weinstein scandal and all of a sudden, nobody ever got in trouble for what they didnt do. Host if we impeach trump mike pence is right there. Directed its funny because, well, i dont know if i should tell the story. Host you definitely should try to the pornographer larry flint who i knew a little bit because of the profession, not because i was engaged in any of his activities. Host meaning you just knew of him traded well know, i met in a couple of times. At fox come he was on fox once. He comes in his wheelchair and he says i thought you be interested something. What . This was when is doing akron investigations on conservatives and christians who are hypocritical about having fairs and other things, this is during the clinton impeachment, right . Guest yes. Host this is one, Bob Livingston . Guest right. Offered a Million Dollars to anybody who could expose. He submitted a back investigation on you. I said right . He said we did find a a thing. I said my goodness. Personally approved by larry flint, i guess thats a relief. Guest you are looking in the wrong place for my sins. Host good for you. On the concept of impeachment, mitt romney was the lone republican vote and i did one ask you because you often reference roman 131, theres no glory except god. If you believe in the scripture as written, does that mean any elected president can do whatever they like . Guest we have a constitution and people swear to uphold the constitution, not the bible. I think there are several areas where they intersect, otherwise jefferson who was a deist with not say that all men meeting the human race, not just males, are created equal. They didnt they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights and among these are the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The next clause in the declaration of independence jefferson outline the purpose of government succinct as it always did. He said that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men. The rights got heading debt. Why is that necessary . Because as James Madison said, if men were angels we would need all these laws. The people arguing we need more gun control laws, tell me a law that lawbreakers will obey and i will consider it. But by the very nature they are lawbreakers they will not obey the law. This is an interval thing. What does the Authority Come from course all Authority Comes from god, even bad leaders. I dont know why. Im not god. I can explain hitler. I cant explain stalin. I cant explain now. But when jesus stood before pilot and sit in the greatest churchstate moment ever, dont you realize i have the power of life and death of you . He responded you wouldnt have that power if my father had that given to you. In the debate. Host continue. If President Trump this is gods will can you teach us a lesson . Guest on the data can sugar very prominent evangelical leader set in 2016, god showed up. I wrote in response, welcome who showed up when obama was elected or clinton or bush . You cant say that. God isnt a republican. Host dont tell some evangelicals that tragic he puts Office Fashion he puts people in obstacle purpose. There were a lot of lousy lousy leaders in scripture in the old and new testament. You cant argue only somebody you voted for this gods will katie sepich in place of him which is the first sin. Host but there are a lot of faith abiding republicans that feel they have to go along with anything trump does right now. To that point Jerry Falwell junior was asked by the Washington Post is anything President Trump to do that would endanger support from you or other evangelical leaders . He said no. He said thats the source as ive ever received on that question. Host . Guest the presence of said yes such strong even joke support he could walk and fifth avenue in europe and shoot somebody instilled support trauma is that because of trump are people are so afraid to trust the democrats try to its combination. King david when he was king over israel at the best line ever on this pick you said put not your trust in kings or mortal flesh that we cannot save and he was king. Basically dont trust him. We have leaders. I have my preferences. You have your preferences. Everybody has their preferences. The thing that bothers me now among other things is at, somebody made this point the other night on television, a member of congress, it used to be when you have an election the losing side we collect its wounds, have meeting, how do we retool our message . Now its how we do we bring ths guy down . This person down. They were arguing about impeachment, the democrats were, even before the election and certainly a day or two after some of the more radical members occultist. Thats not the way to do it and is poisonous atmosphere and this people said during this recent impeachment fiasco, impeachment was supposed to be rare. Now i fear that when republicans get back in control of both houses of congress and theres a democrat president , they are going to go the same route and that the polarized and poison the political atmosphere even more than it is now which is bad enough. Host it seems to me it gets to the concept of forgiveness, starting over with a blank slate, and that the National Prayer breakfast, Arthur Brooks, who everyone knows former skull at aei i believe, very smart guy, one of the nicest guys, he stood up at the podium and said raise your hand if you love someone that you disagree with lyrically. Most of the audience raised their hands what President Trump didnt. Guest i know. I am writing a column about it called missed opportunity. The thing about reconciliation is that the real power comes from the person who feels that he or she has been offended, to extend forgiveness to the person who is guilty of the offense. If as jesus said, heaping coals of fire upon their heads. Now, if the president really wanted was a perfect opportunity. The speech was brilliant, wonderful. The president didnt even go down, nancy pelosi, speaker was sitting at the other end of the table. If you have gone debt and just shook her hand, there wouldve in, there wouldve been, that wouldve been one of the greatest symbols of reconciliation and forgiveness, and Arthur Brooks also said during his talk before the president got up, he said look, if you can really do it out of your heart, take it. Now, who is better at taking it . The reality tv star than donald trump, right . Jesus set the example when used on the cross. He was unfairly tried, unfairly arrested, unfairly convicted and its is unfairly crucified. And yet he said father, forgive them for they know not what they do. That is the ultimate reconciling statement, and i think its not about the president agreement with nancy pelosi. Its not about it. I think rightly feeling that he was wronged by these articles of impeachment, it was the last step after the mueller report, charges of racism to all of these other things have been to add in that didnt stick. So they tried the impeachment route. I think he could perform a Great Healing act had he gone down what but with a costume . Nothing. Host what keeps people from pulling back on both sides . Guest its all about the quest for power. But its not real power. God offers power come his power. He has the only power to change a life and to change direction of nations. The fundraisers, ive seen some of these from the inside. Host you tell a great story when you are at the moral majority and you asked why is everything always so apocalyptic . Like every over say were doing a good job . Can you tell us what you learn from it . Guest i i asked a prominent pastor not associate with moral majority, i said why dont you ever send out a positive letter on what you doing with peoples contributions . He said you cant raise money on apposite. How cynical is that . If you say things are going great, thanks very contributions, you remain a difference, they will they wern any more money. But if you say the world is going to pot, the president is terrible, whatever, send me 20 bucks. Youre more likely but that is cynical manipulation. The left does the same thing. Some of them use the same fundraisers. They worked both sides of the strait like a cheap poker. As long as the check clears, who cares . It contributes to the cynicism, the polarization in the anchor. We are not each other as enemies, as lincoln said. If we dont make this great experiment called democracy or a constitutional republic, work for succeeding generations as a argument will, we are going to expire. Things are looking great but when things are looking great, its tied to shore up the foundations, the psalmist wrote to the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do . I think our foundations are being destroyed at several levels as i argued. Host who are the right people to lead the country the way back . Guest again, its not the person. Its bubble up, not trickle down. I think there has to be host why should this have for the past . The parallels are so strong today. Guest you can change a heart through legislation. Somebody will argue what about civil rights . What about civil rights . There was huge resistance the brown v. The board of education. Immigration schools. There was opposition to interracial marriage and not just from the south of the parts of the country. Slowly, slowly slowly over the years when that generation that was so racist and bigoted finally died out and was replaced by another more broadminded, more biblical oriented i would argue generation, those things begin to change. So long can be good and they can shape, but law cannot force me to love my wife or to be a good father to my children or an example or a role model to my peers. Thats my responsibility and i have the ultimate responsibility to god before whom i shall stand and give an account of my life. No legislation can force me to be righteous, to be good, to e good husband and father, to be committed, not to commit adultery and duties other things. That come from the heart and only god can reach that. No legislation and no president can. Host there seems like theres not a lot of legislation moving these days but President Trump is trying to reach out to evangelicals and promote those values, looks to people are really controversial like paula white who view of written about who preaches the prosperity gospel. It would be easy for you to point out your thoughts on that. Guest this is something new. During the next Administration Charles colson was one of the top aides to president nixon, he did some time from watergate but wrote this wonderful book called or again, even bob woodward who was pretty cynical about all of this acknowledge that colson was a changed man. But he said in his preconversion days that evangelicals with the easiest to manipulate. Have a picture president nixon come all of a sudden nixon could do no wrong. Thats the seduction. I would suggest that power or the sense of power in washington, d. C. Is a greater seduction than sex. Its more powerful, more subtle, its unseen. If you had an affair with somebody you can see them, but the whole power thing im not asking for an answer. Rhetorical, thank you. But it will is seductive. Kissinger talked about this a musical, henry kissinger, the former secretary of state. The powers are very, very subtle and seductive thing. Its not really power at all. If it were with think that a change by now . All of the things that the president ial candidates especially the democrats talk about education and employment, which is great. Wouldnt all of that has changed by now . We spent all this money, i had all the time to fix it. If a democrat president with democratic congresses and i can things are not better . How come they dont ever improve . Because thats that with the real answer is that its in the heart where only god can reach. Host it seems like we republicans have evangelicals risk of backlash for not doing the most good when they can when they have the power and the results what happened to the church. Because Catholic Church corruption, people seeking to make money for the Church Rather than providing for the poor, and also young people look at republicans in power right now who are not moving the ball on entitlements, growth of government, military expansion, what have you. When were told when everything is so nationalized in a system and anybody everybody looks to washington for answers, how do we get them to look inward . Guest my standard opening line in election circuit is, im happy to be a tonight washington, d. C. , where the only politicians with convictions are in prison. Always gets a lot, bipartisan, hopefully not too many more. Guest cal thomas, friend of mine says, at the time is always say. Thats what works in this town. I think once again you go back to the seduction of power and conservatives are as guilty as this as liberals but in another area. They want Smaller Government and get their constantly looking to government to change things. You cant have it both ways. Government was designed to be limited by the founders so that the people with the unlimited in their pursuit of happiness, however they defined. Now it is referred to many republicans seem to be just as happy to manage the growth of government. You look at the and means committee, look at the appropriations committee, the only bipartisan thing that happens in this tent anymore is spending. Thats how you get republicans and democrats together is to spend money. Sent it back to a base or for an airplane so the military doesnt want. One of the great inventions was the base realignment and Closing Commission which drove politicians crazy because theyre closing down bases that were world war ii vintage and had not been used in years but that brought money into the district, but it worked. But who do you think is doing it right . And from the bottom up, young people need to look for it . Who has done it right . In all your time serving politics, there are rays of hope. I dont know anybody, and my neighborhood. In northern virginia, graduated from American University but then things started to change in the 60s, hugh hefner said they dont need to wait until they are in a committed relationship or the wife has 6 and the rebellion against that attitude by helen brown of cosmo magazine, nice girl go to heaven, bad guys go everywhere, that kind of philosophy and men cant make commitments, you cant trust them and men dont feel an obligation to stick in a marriage and this is the crumbling of society. You think marriage is a key building block. Family is the foundation of any culture or society. If you dont have Strong Families or reason to come home from work at night, slaughter dinner so you can cook it over the open fire. Host im glad we dont have to do that. Guest or the frozen dinner. Those things change but the foundation of any society is a strong family. No one can force me to be faithful to my wife but if i dont commit adultery and if im honest host a couple problems. Guest you influence others. People say why are you the way you are . Im not a great example but if you see any good in me it is god reproducing himself. Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world and you see all the prophecies in revelation especially and the gospels, everything is winding down to the final act and depending whose side you are determines whether you will spend eternal he and who you will spend it with but history is so important that the closest we get to history these days is the instant replay in sports, people dont know what happened a generation ago. I started in the News Business and i want to know, mostly young men, the women came later who were correspondents, this was instant history and i wanted them to pour their lives into me. I was a young kid, 18, 19, 20 years old and this these were my heroes, wouldnt be known to todays generation probably but who do we have like that, not sports figures certainly, certainly not politicians but who is out there, clergy . May be some but as you suggest a lot of them are compromised by unbroken fealty to this president or another we public and president and the left is there thing. They excused bill clinton. 6 is between him and his wife. Look at Jane Carville and others who poohpoohed the whole thing. Host the rise and fall, which declined scares you the most . Guest i would have to say rome. The romans have that is a version of las vegas, theres a whole bunch of sex with whomever in that have. They were so full of themselves, the military overreach and the decadence that characterized, the classic rise and fall of the roman empire. I add a few things. A society that turns in on itself and begins to undercut the basic values that built it and sustained it through wars, depressions, recessions, committing suicide, these have to be renewed by every generation and sometimes within generations or they evaporate and we are in danger of that and that is why i wrote the book. You get one executive order, illegal immigration, which one thing could we change to get the fastest results. We have a lot of these guest the founders knew what they were doing when they had this diffusion of power. And shifting funds to build a wall host will beget the wall . Guest some of it is being built but the wind came along and blue over a section of it, doesnt fill me with confidence. Illegal immigration is down substantially. He has done through executive order and job owning to mexico and honduras and el salvador and guatemala he has gotten those governments to stand up and stem the flow and this goes great credit for that through executive order, things like abortion, value of human life and guest i think about the abortion question a lot. Host could we actually change peoples mind through the government and that question . We had the morningafter pill and all that. Is a woman i have to think this is a personal problem. You have to talk with people directly. Guest thousands of Pregnancy Health centers cropped up since roe versus wade. Heard the stories of women who had abortions, if i had only known, so there is not a generation this is showing progress. The abortion rate is down substantially, Legislature Passed full disclosure. We take host hadnt heard of that. Guest before abortion occurs. Including adoption. The polls have shown 90 of abortion minded women who see a picture of their own baby, choose life, that is a great tool. Im for empowering women, to give them more information. Host in terms of strategy, we have moral problems and did make me wonder if evangelicals are wrong to put so much emphasis in overturning roe v wade when those efforts are more effective. Host i dont think it is either or, some others have already, cuomo of new york signed legislation, after the moment of live birth. A woman and her child born 21 weeks and a few days, the earliest premature baby that survived and if her mother wanted to abort her in 20 weeks or 22 weeks or the moment of delivery under current law she would be perfectly free to do so. Is that the power we should give individuals . What about the man . What about the husband . He has no say, 0. Even though he may be willing to do anything including put the child host a friend of mine said we wanted to stick it to the men, pay child support. Guest the doctor and the ice cream at pickles of your night. Host all these problems existed for some line in the thing that will save us is revival of american spirit. What would that look like. There is the spiritual one that comes only from god and the revival of 1857 with a religious historian j edward or called a concert of prayer, two men got together, began to pray once a week for revival. The problems of america as we were being torn apart in 1857 with the civil war to follow a few years later but they needed to meet every day for prayer and the group got so big they couldnt fit them all into the Lower Manhattan and moved to churches at night. At the height of the revival which exploded, 10,000 week in new york city, they cant they despicable denies to baptize people in the middle of winter. Prompting one commentator, blue the punch line. So that is where change comes from, on the political and economic level, people decide to live, a lot of schools no longer allowing or outlawing the pledge of allegiance to the flag. We did that every day in school. This is america. I mentioned earlier, mexico is better to let them go back to mexico and pledge allegiance, previous immigrants have been assimilated, not hyphenated. Host i wouldnt say it is all immigrants. And the pledge of allegiance, widespread problem. Guest inclusive means everything except what i believe. We have to tolerate everything except what im intolerant of. We have to believe in anything except what i believe. Some of my liberal secular progressive friends talk a great game about diversity, not ideological diversity. Male or female, africanamerican, hispanic, latino. It is not what you look like on the outside, real diverse city will mean people of different political points, we dont see that in our universities, tolerated all kinds of speech, wanted to hear opinions, now conservative speakers shouted down, shouted down universities. Host why the conservatives are being discriminated against because you look at the success of fox news, mostwatched cable station ever. Some of the most influential voices are conservative. Guest depends on what you mean by influential. Host like rush limbaugh. Guest rush, god bless him i hope you survived this physical challenge. Host you wrote a forward to one of your books diagnosed with advanced lung cancer. Guest a wonderful man. People who dont know him dont understand him. You are going to laugh but he is a humble man. If you listen to him at christmas or host the golden microphone. Guest it is part showbiz. I use humor, he uses humor. He uses humor to make a larger point. Here is the thing. This is what i argue in the book. People tune in mostly only to those programs that reinforce what they already think. I would much rather win an argument by discussing the virtues and fallacies of a particular program or proposal than just to tune into programs. I listen to rush, i listen to hannity and others, that doesnt change any minds. That is what we are not focusing on. Much better to win the issue than to win the election because you dont persuade the other side. Host throughout your career, you always thought to have your view included in the mainstream pages, the Mainstream Media not being regulated as a Christian Conservative on the back page, the crazy aisle of the bookstore. Guest that helps a lot. Host why is it important for conservatives to do . It is easy to get put in the box and you resisted it. Guest the editors have been very good. I join their organization, got more speaking engagements and deliberately cut back. I would meet with the editor. You are the first columnist ever to meet with me, speak to a group and how many subscribe, fewer than half. Why i never see my views represented, you stereotype what i believe, how many would subscribe to your paper. The newspaper had some trouble. I want you to call the publisher because the publisher controls the purse strings, and on the basis of diversity it was on the basis of money. You want subscriptions, take me, the demographic you ignored are stereotyped, youre going together subscriptions. Host the temptation to do the hot case, you have a really interesting point, you have some scripture in their. How do you always stay so consistent week after week . You can go through the archive, it is very timely but people want to have the hottest take and it is hard to be reliable. The bible of political washington, they are so predictable now. I grew up on the Washington Post, the washington daily news they had more newspapers, every article, every editorial, every columnist, they are all thinking of new ways to denounce trump. It is about all politicians. Host when do people fall over the edge. Guest they have blanket faith and it is almost cultlike. My guy can do no wrong. Thats not good for the person. They need to be held accountable. If they do wrong somebody needs to say it, not that youre being judgmental but you are not living up to the standard that you professed or the standard we expect of you. You can still vote for them, improve their policies but not have blanket absolution. You take gods name invade which is one of your commandments not to do, he makes all kinds of references that would be anathema to evangelicals, especially for the pulpit but there is always a danger in this, the great seduction of politics. Dont care if youre republican or democrat, both sides have done it, i talked to a guy who was one of bill clintons spiritual advisers. I hate that phrase. And i said remember when you said some of us were getting too close to reagan . This is different. How is that . We need to keep our eyes and nose on the prize, on the person and not put our trust in princes and kings asking david warned against. The ultimate price is eternal life, the shortterm prize is to have an influence on other people. As Arthur Brooks said at the National Prayer breakfast, loving your enemies is one of the most powerful things anyone can do. When an average nonbeliever looks at the Christian Community as if there was such a thing, the first thing they recognize, loving their enemies, praying for those who persecute them, caring for what is and orphans . Those are instructions and jesus himself and people who claim to be followers of him and believe the bibles narrative is infallible, act not exactly following the precepts and commands of the one they are following. To really want influence, where is the power of god come from . Political leadership . Mustard seed, last place of the table, week but strong, humble yourself under the mighty hand of god and those who wait for the lord shall we knew their strength, not because we are stupid and dont listen, he repeats himself, if you want my power you got to do it my way, jesus said he would be the leader among you must be your servant first, washing feet, all these things, humility gets gods attention. Where do you see humility in washington . Only in the dictionary and i havent checked that out recently. Host humble yourself, love your enemies, cant imagine a better way to end so we will end there. The book is americas expiration date. Sunday night on booktv on afterwords author Tara Westover talk about growing up with survivalists parents in her book educated, a memoir. I think my mother did a decent job of homeschooling. By the time i came along, she had 7 kids, was a midwife, there wasnt a lot of homeschooling going on. I never took an exam, never anything like a lecture. Host Surgeon General with his book together. I had many experiences, growing through my email or repressing on social media feed. Or you just fall into it. We are switching between one thing and another. And perhaps even more importantly the quality of time. Watch booktv onpa