Transcripts For CSPAN2 Senate Roundtable On Remote Voting Coronavirus 20240713

To have change our way of life is anyways. Is this is our shuttered and millions of americans are teleworking for the first time. Churches and schools are closed. Healthcare workers are working around the clock and just in the last five weeks race on the numbers i sawks this might look like nearly 30 million americans filed for unemployment. Most believe were already approaching the highest percentage of unemployed since the greatye depression. Now more than ever americans need to know that their leaders are working for them, and that they have voices as work to navigate in this pandemic. In a world where its no longer safe to be within six feet of each other, congress has to learn to adapt. Now the first time weve need to ensure the continuity of congress. For example, with the Nuclear Threat during the cold war, u. S. Government constructed a large bunkerrn for congress so we woud be required to meet outside of washington. Area where there is not a physical meeting location at risk, but rather elected officials themselves and others we would be in contact with. We are a subcommittee of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committee, which has jurisdiction over congressional organizations. Its important we look at this issue on how to govern during these sorts of times. From that perspective, while we wait for guidance, on how to conduct more formal hearings remotely, todays discussion is an attempt to move Congress Forward in times of crisis when we cant meet in person. It is fitting our topic of the day should be remote proceedings in congress, including remote voting. Today, are gathering itself is really part of our case as i understand, it is the first time we have been able to do this in the u. S. Congress. Certainly in the senate. We want to show it was possible to have a hearing without physically being in a hearing room. We are told this is a first are the u. S. Senate. In my view, remote congressional proceedings should never be the norm. It should be limited to times of true and nationwide emergencies, and only when it is not feasible for senators to be in the same place. Any authorization to proceed remotely, whether it is Committee Meetings or the votes should be limited in duration. Any extension should require a vote by the entire senate. Our goal should be to bring both our country and congress back to work in person as soon as safely possible. There are times when that is not possible. These principles are outlined in the bipartisan remote voting resolution i introduced with senator dick durbin. It allows a majority and minority leaders to agree, put in place a temporary voting arrangement for remote voting in times of extraordinary crisis. After 30 days, senators would have to vote to allow that remote voting, otherwise the mandate would expire. Our subcommittee is releasing a report containing both illegal analysis and technical security recommendations for remote voting and remote governing. Illegally, the serene court made it clear the constitution allows the u. S. Senate to make its own rules. The court has a long history of giving difference to congress in determining its procedures when it comes to issues surrounding voting. Based on our legal analysis, we expect remote proceedings to have the same deference. I think the founders would be supportive of the legislative ranch being heard during emergencies. We also need to address the technical issues that surround remote proceedings. In my view, senators should be required to authenticate their identity and verify their vote through an encrypted platform for remote voting. There are several offtheshelf solutions for that that the senate can use to create a secure and reliable voting platform. We have worked with experts and we will hear some of that today. We dont have to reinvent the wheel. I urge people to review this report, which i believe puts to rest many concerns i have heard raised about temporarily authorizing the senate to proceed remotely in times of crisis. We very much look forward to hearing from our witnesses about these issues. The senate would not be the first legislative body to work remotely. Several states have continued legislative business in the past month, including allowing members to remote vote. Across the atlantic, the European Union and plummeted a remote voting for its legislative body. The parliament of the u. K. Is beginning to experiment with Holding Virtual proceedings. While a lot is uncertain about when life will return to normal, one thing should be clear, congress should be able to continue to represent the American People, do its job, even in times of crisis. I want to thank the senator for working with me on this event today, but also on this broader issue of remote governing. I appreciate him working so closely together in a bipartisan way to make sure congress can continue to operate and provide needed support for all americans. With that, i turned to senator carner to his opening remarks. Leadershipu for your on this issue. It is an extremely important topic. I am pleased we were able to have this discussion now, even as we continue to Work Together remotely. I wanted to say i am sitting here in my pajamas. In quitehe first time a while. Be with all of you. My service on this committee started less than a year before 11,attacks on september 2001. One of the planes hijacked that morning was likely headed to the u. S. Capitol. In the wake of that tragic day in our nations history, we start the conversation about issues like how to assemble congress in a secure, remote if they couldnt meet in washington, d. C. There is a special underground facility in West Virginia. We are also having conversations about having tests for congress. It is scary and challenging time. The new challenges we face today as a result of covid19 are no less scary and no less challenging. Covid19 deaths through our country continue to grow. It is essential those of us in Congress Respond quickly and effectively. Our top priority right now should be do all we can to tect the necessary support all you can to provide support to first responders, the health care professionals, businesses and state and local governments. They are at stress, almost to the breaking point. Thats the toll this disease have taken. I think this is a good time to restart instructions from almost 20 years ago and begin to figure out how we can make sure this congress and future congresses are able to function through major crisis that might make it difficult for us to assemble in washington, d. C. When confronted with a difficult policy decision like this, the first is this. If its not broken, dont fix it. Look at the rural Emergency Operations center. I asked nothing is broken. Somepose one can enable bipartisan support to enact killings of dollars to combat the problems in recent weeks. I argue those are working just fine. At the same time, much more needs to be done, and divisions are starting to show as we think about what to do next and when. It may be the in normas consent is no longer an option. Inaction is not an action. Allows us to move to the next stage in the response to covid19. We need to consider it. As we consider some of the changes that have been proposed recently, im reminded of a second adage, do no harm. We should not allow any remote Voting System established to deal with the impact of covid19 to be abused to further unrelated partisan goals. If the system allows us to deal with this disease, also used in the coming months to confirm controversial nominees. Even worse than that would be the future Senate Majority leaders using remote voting ever more frequently to conduct routine business so numbers can remain at home states turning to washington to do our nations business. Every single partisan success i have been a part of as a member of this body, and some of you, have come out of personal relationships with our colleagues during our time. Discussions and negotiations in the capitol. Losing those relationships and the ability to work closely with our colleagues, it would never get past. Likely exile away all negativity in a partisanship to make congress unpopular with voters in recent years. If i can acknowledge that there are more than a few questions we will need to confront as we decide what course to follow with respect to this issue. Find out what works and do more of that. Our country is not alone grappling with this global outbreak. We need to look closely at how other legislative bodies with the same issues and the number of states taking bold steps. See what lessons we can learn from their expenses. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank our staff. We welcome each of you. I think our witnesses are martin, joshua. Welcome all of you. We look forward to hearing from you. Productive and timely conversation that needs to be addressed in this critical time in our nations history. Mitt romney has joined us, and maybe some others. It is good to be with all of you. Look forward to meeting in person next week. Looking forward to being back with you, as well. Senator romney has joined us. Without giving you any notice, would you like to make any opening comments . We may have other colleagues who will join us. A few others are interested in joining later. Senator romney, anything before we get started . There we go. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Mr. Ranking member, good to see you. And to see marty gold, hearing from him and the other panelists. It is an important topic. Almost two months ago, i raised with leadership the possibility that we might need to vote remotely, and suggested it was an idea for another time. Im glad this is another time. I wish you the very best in the process. I think we have to have a provision of this nature in place. The biggest question for me is making sure of the Biggest Issue is making sure a true place, aswas in opposed to this becoming a Political Tool to be used by perhaps a majority or minority leader to accomplish something membership at large wasnt in favor of. We have seen the emergency designation used by the president in a way some of us thought was excessive. I think being able to define what is a true emergency and what would require remote voting would be something that we need to Pay Attention to. Thank you for convening this hearing, i look forward to hearing from the panelists. Senator hawley has also joined us. Are you able to join us, and can we hear your audio . How about this, can you hear me now . You sound great. Thank you. My video is not working, but im able to see you and hear the audio. I will second your remarks, mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding this timely hearing on this very timely subject. I think we have to consider responsible, reasonable options to make sure we can continue our work, no matter what the circumstances are. Thank you for pursuing this hearing so we can explore these possibilities. I look forward to hearing from the witnesses. I see that senator langford has joined us, as well. Do you have any opening comments . We are about to go to the witnesses. Im glad to join you. I look forward to the witness testimony. A chance to listen into that. Thank you. I dont know if any other senators are on. If you are, speak up now. We will turn to our witnesses. The first witness has been referenced. Martin gold is a partner at capital counter llc. He wrote the book that is considered the foremost authority on senate rules and procedures, its called Senate Practice and procedure. His expertise is renowned, in terms of how the senate should operate aced on his extensive background in the senate. We are pleased to have with us lower like kelly. She is a fellow at the center for social impact and innovation at georgetown university. She leads the resilient democracy coalition, which has been at the forefront of looking at ways data and technology can be used to modernize congress. We thank you very much for joining us. Isnow you are out west, this early for you. Thank you for finding a way to be with us. We have joshua with us. He is a senior fellow at the Government Affairs institute at georgetown university. He holds a phd in clinical science and focuses his research in teaching congressional procedure and politics. Having read his testimony, hes got a lot of interesting points to make dealing with some of the potential concerns senator carper raised. I would ask to keep your Opening Statements to five minutes. We will submit your full written testimony for the record. We will post it on the subcommittees website. Mr. Gold, we will start with you. Can you hear me . I can hear you well. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, good morning. Good morning senator carper and other members of the subcommittee. Thank you for your invitation. Senate leaders have worked thoughtfully to mitigate the impact of the coronavirus on the chamber. The question is, is there more that the senate can do to retain its deliverance and character while retaining membership and staff . Proposals like yours have made to use technology to augment or replace customary operations. Assuming those ideas are technologically feasible, are they constitutional . Thecore issue arises from mandate that a majority of each house constitutes according to business. Your remote voting resolution stipulates artistic patient by a majority of senators in a virtual vote satisfies this requirement. I believe that is correct. Power ofgress selfgovernance is not absolute, it is very ample. Supreme court addressed this point in the u. S. Versus alan, which was litigation involving in 1890 house rule that altered how they were determined. Later in 1890, Congress Passed legislation to increase tariffs on certain goods. Mr. Ballin was an importer. So he sued, intending the legislation was inferred because of not present as representatives. The case involved the juxtaposition of two constitutional provisions. The Court Ordered requirement and the rulemaking one. Justice david explained congress may not govern itself in a way, but violates constitutional restraints and fundamental rights, but otherwise the right rules to suit its needs. Its up to the house to decide andto ascertain a quorum, proclaim judicial deference to the rulemaking party saying that within the limitations subjected, it was beyond the challenge of any other body or tribunal. So the Supreme Court upheld the statute. In the 2014 case, the Supreme Court unanimously invalidated three recess appointments made between pro forma sessions. The issue was judicial deference. Justice Stephen Breyer wrote the standard we apply today is consistent with the constitutions broad delegation of authority to the senate to determine how and when to conduct its business. Please consider the purpose of the coram requirement itself. The framers looked at other options, but settled on a majority, believing it fostered broad representative anticipation in congress word. As george mason of virginia said, in this extended country, embracing so great a diversity of interest, it would be dangerous to distance parts to allow a small number of the members to make laws. Remote voting and virtual proceedings only serve a quorum objectively. With the courts invalidate legislating for a physical meeting if Congress Says it is unsafe to convene . Justice Robert Jackson once observed, it is useful to temper doctrine or logic with tactical wisdom. Failure to do so could convert the constitution into a suicide act. If the senate authorizes virtual proceedings, they must either amend or override some senate rules specifying such proceedings satisfy the rules, or the exception is made for them. The senate must also consider president ial orders that operate notwithstanding contradictory language in the rules so as you avoid an inadvertent impact on them. Mr. Chairman, the senate could adopt the Standing Order that would temporarily override the rules. Thats something you can do if you are worried about the implications of amending the text. Thats exactly what the senate did in 2013 with a Standing Order to reduce time on certain nominations. The Standing Order expired at the end of the congress. Virtual proceedings are not a subsequent norm for senate. The opportunity for senators to interact with each other, party leaders, staff, diminished committees, not function customarily. Over senators have the right to debate and the right to amend. Neither of those rights is duplicated by a process, but allows for remote voting without virtual proceedings. It may be necessary to implement things in phases, like the British Parliament. In this case, beginning with remote voting. As soon as possible proceedings should replicate senate floor. Virtual operations are similar. Even worse would be a senate that feeds unanimous consent to legislate while in pro forma sessions, or one that must convene and has in its conditions if there is an objection or forum call. Finally, some procedures explicitly referred to the needs to prevail with 60 votes. In person sessions with many will have the distorting making those thresholds. I appreciate the opportunity to share these perspectives. Really appreciate your insight. Ms. Kelly, we will now turn to you for your Opening Statement. Senators, thank you for the opportunity to testify. I work on congressional monetization at the center for social impact and innovation at your town. We are at a Pivotal Moment in our democracy. The urgency to restore a functional Legislature Increases with every moment. Will Congress Join the rest of society, not to mention several other legislatures in the u. S. And around the world, and let the technology enable us to carry on with the operations of the first branch . Where we maintain the promise set forth in article one of our let moreions, or we time slip away as unprecedented taxpayer dollars are spent . As checks and balances go awry . And as americans far and wide look to congressional leaders to inform us, to unify us, and to help push through this crisis . Let us choose the first option. And if you remember anything from this testimony about continuity of the senate and remote participation. Let it be that we can do this. Indeed, we are doing it right now here today. It is hard. We are watching it happen. The more apt question for you is how do you want to operate existing technology . Like this Video Conference roundtable today, millions of americans are moving their work and relationships to online video platforms. You can be sure that this workspace will be different than what you are used to in the senate chamber. You can still get a lot done, and we know some things already. For example, which is the inevitable, lagging will happen. We need to figure out how to multitask. How do you signal or raise your hand . How are you supposed to communicate in confidence with the staff . Figuring out how to answer these questions is now our challenge. Some of them, like Authentication Methods for remote voting and encryption, are already in practice in other countries. We can do this. Even while we are dispersed across the country. Im talking with you today from the cab of a pickup truck with a hotspot from a farm in san juan county, new mexico. Staff helped me make this work. They can help the entire senate. Its also important to remember that the senate has adapted in a crisis before. To be sure, todays challenge is not a technical one, it is an emotional and intellectual one. We require a change of heart. Change is hard. The good news is there is a lot of heart to share. So many people love and admire this institution. We all want it to be at or on the other side of this pandemic. We are ready to help. Most of us in this roundtable probably remember senate, life before blackberry, this is when a staffer could lose a senator on a site visit. That doesnt happen anymore, because mobile conductivity in most of the workflow is the norm. I was a congressional fellow in 2001. I was working on the hill through september 11 and the anthrax attacks. I will never forget the experience of my friends staff, her desk was sprayed with foam in an attempt to neutralize any possible contamination. Officers were evacuated in midoctober that had no access to Important Documents to each other and files to their workplace. Then they couldnt return until january until the next year. For months went by while they worked in makeshift spaces, Union Station and hideaways in the capital. Senate staffers everywhere. At that time, conductivity was maybe 10 of what it is today. This experience accelerated mobile adaptation. Im not refusing the lack of a continuity plan. We needed one then, and we need one now. With this turnaround, we are so much more capable. If i can flip a Senate Master switch, i am sure that this chamber would race up the learning curve. If you give them permission, your colleagues and staff will rise to this occasion. This chamber has nearly 4000 employees. Many of them young and accustomed to technology throughout their lives. Voting in an emergency is vital. Delivered a process. Let us use this time to reimagine how committees operate. Start with field hearings or rules not bound by geography and the first place. Before we catch our breath, we will have built the foundations of the 21st century institution. Think of how better informed we can be within the Technology Capacity in the senate. Imagine a realtime Situational Awareness we can have of first responders, medical professionals. Andthcare Workers Committee panels during this pandemic. This roundtable today, we are on the right track. Voting and remote online deliberations are comported, they will never take the place of in person convenience. All of our most important Life Experiences relationships leverage technology, not the other way around. More than anything else, the senate is about human relationships. They will remain top priority. They will remain paramount. I have confidence in this abiding truth and in your leadership. I stand ready to help. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Very well done. I like your studio. Members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. Atm a senior fellow georgetown university. Today in an unprecedented history. Now more than possibly any other time, the American People are relying on congress to guide us through the pandemic. Rising to that challenge needs processes to continue the operation. I want to make three points about remote voting as a possible alternative. First, it is imperative congress adopt methods for members to participate in drafting, debating, passing legislation to address the covid19 pandemic and process it formally and publicly oversee the execution. Second, remote voting may be necessary, but it poses serious institutional consequences. You should therefore remain strict the and nearly limited to emergency situations only and not adopted as part of the regular proceedings. Finally, i will highlight what i view as some of the best alternatives to address the current situation. The covid19 pandemic has erupted and will continue to disrupt normal congressional operations. It is Critical Congress create committee and floor processes to fulfill its constitutional role. If congress does not, abdicating that authority. It would delay congressional responses to the pandemic amid important sources of information from the policymaking process, and limit oversight. As trillion dollars are doled out in record pace, convening to debate and oversee these programs is critical to ensure they are executed as congress intends. Addressing this crisis will require the input of every representative and senator. Congress should also be wary of potential damage legislating could inflict. This roundtables primary focus is remote voting but it is also about legislating. It involves deliberating in committee rooms, offices, chamber doors. Congress is not merely a disconnectedf members. Distanced from this process. Remote legislating creates several problems. Less room represents senators and representatives. Remote legislating would only worsen this problem. Work worsenly polarization. Even in one of the most polarized periods of american politics. This highlights the importance and value of the capital some. Personal connections have influenced the entire chamber. Been shaped byo the interaction of its members. This increases the divide between the parties. This would protect members from individual influence. This lends itself to in person components. This offers two advantages. It is quick and can be implemented through chamber rules and simple changes to existing procedures. It can safeguard against permanent remote voting, which i see is a danger. Offers the best alternative to safeguard its use. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. Thank you very much. We will now go to members questions. A second round or third round if there is interest. I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony and expertise. He said it is not a good thing that congress cannot convene. But it is even worse if congress cannot work during emergencies. That is how i come at this. I have been promoting this for over 25 years. This is not about this pandemic. This is a broader question. This is also about the possibility of a terrorist attack or other Reasons Congress would not be able to meet. This is something that should be not looked at strictly in the terms of the pandemic but the general concerns about when congress cannot or should not be gathering. To the point about relationships and interactions, i dont disagree with that. Is interesting to hear some people say congress has always personal thetionships and that helps ability to get things done in a bipartisan way. We have lost a lot of that in congress. I can say that as someone who has been in the house 12 years and the senate for 10 years. Wheres a place bipartisanship is more difficult, not easier. Those relationships that are more difficult. It is possible that remote interaction on a more normal bases could help that. Typically off about one third of the year. Do you ever interact with your colleagues on your side of the aisle, much less on the other side during that. The answer is probably never or rarely. Are only an session usually monday afternoon to thursday afternoon. Of the week we have very little interaction with r. Kelly. Some of us take great pride in our ability to get things done and a bipartisan basis. That is the most important thing. I dont think that remote , whether it is the legislation or in remote roundtable such as this necessarily takes away from that fact. There is an opportunity to increase interaction with members. It is thedd it all up majority of the days of the year that we are not in session. A good job did talking about the constitutional issues. I appreciate that. When you did not mention extensively with how it would thethe Supreme Route Supreme Courts rules. Once it is enrolled, that becomes the legislative branches the thought. Can you speak to that for a moment . There are several documents that the Supreme Court has observed in one form or another. The enrolled bill doctrine that if yousipated that says have the leaders of the house and senate who are authorized to , the Supreme Court will not look behind that to determine what kind of procedure was used or if it was properly formatted. It is the same thing that is is the case in setting rules. The parliamentarian and the chair will not look behind that. There is a sense that you should defer to the final action of the committee. Without going behind it to try to pick apart what mightve been this isget to the end one of the reasons for deference. All of those doctrines would be sufficient to create the preference you want. Thank you very much. I want to turn to my colleagues in a secondtier. Econd here. We did not come up with a new system from scratch. This is technology that is available in the senate today. We are proceeding today with technology that is readily available. There are any number of platforms that are offtheshelf that could be configured or specifically for the procedures of the house and the senate. The Tech Industry would be glad to work with us on the legislative status to look at what is needed where andan how o do it, this is a really hard problem but its not an impossible one, i think it would be a great endeavor to Work Together with the Tech Industry and bring d. C. In california along together in a common goal. Yes, i agree with you. Thank you. Ill now turn to senator carper. Sorry i missed your question, the pickup truck that youre sitting in is that yourtt truck . This is a 1998 dodge truck that is used on the farm, its my sisters truck. Okay. Im from delaware and in the garage is a 2000 dodge chrysler. That is very cozy, and a hotspot, i have the broadband experience. [laughter] thats another conversation. Thank you for your question. When you gave your testimony, how are you doing that . This is something i will be happy to share, i found a teleprompter lesson an available online, its teleprompter. Com. I just entered and it turns it into a beautiful scroll and you can control the speed and you can start and stop it, im glad it looks like it knew what i was doing. [laughter] i tried a couple of times and i guess it worked. Thank you. I think we discussed that. Thank you. Im reminded of something, biden who was elected seven times of the u. S. Senate becoming the president , it reminded me of something that he used to say and still s says, politics is add to that the publishing is personal. And id be inclined to agree with this observation. Let me just ask if i could, to each of you do you think you agree with the other panels you want to go first . I think the most important, im not a constitutional lawyer, i did work on the hill but i think what i heard my fellow panelists say, the legacy of the path and the rolls in the courtroom in 200 someyearold traditions are not hard and fast obstacles in the place of moving forward and adapting and that we have been meaning to do this for some time and now we just into doing more urgently than ever before. But this has always been possible in all its mandated. What do you think . I think clearly that we all agree that some process needs to be done. We need some way for the senate to convene. This is a great example of the possibilities that are out there for congress to maintain the constitutional role and function within the legislative process but also in overseeing responses to this. Second, i think we all agree theres little substitute for the impersonator and the personal relationships that make the senate what the senate is. More than any other institution, legislative body in the world, the senate is very much driven by personal relationships and social interactions. I think removing that were severely limiting would be something that would be involv involved. Thank you. Thank you, senator. I absolutely agree with doctor statement about the importance of personal interaction in the senate. What he said in his oral statement but is written submission as well pretty made a very strong point about that, i is anybody whore really thinks that remote participation is a substitute for the Actual Senate and senator portman made a comment in his opening remarks that is really embraced in the resolution that he offered to senator about limiting circumstances so you dont resort to this on any emergency condition. So iff you begin, theres no substitute for the Actual Senate. The best thing you are doing is working in sub optimal circumstances to do the best you can in circumstances where it is physically dangerous to convene then you build guard rails around what to do so you dont use the sun to casual basis. The proposal that senator portman and senator durbin and also one that senator bought interpol introduced has that characteristics for those characteristics, they initiated or what basis to continue with. What basis do you sunset it, what basis do you renew it. So in other words, the point, if this were a substitute for the Actual Senate and they made it very clear point and i agree, you would not worry about those things so much. If its not a substitute foru e actual then you have to build in the protections of the guardrails which these revolutions that ive seen so far absolutely do. Let me turn back, you noted that remote participation could concentrate congressional leadership. You also argued that members want to hold leadership accountable and i think you said they need to write a minimum to questions, can you expand on the ways in which remote participation could be at the expense of other members. Yes, one of the rays that remote voting empowers leaders and they will be the one in the capital itself. Even with any remote process theres going to be people that have to be in the chambers to make the rules and motions that procedures will be necessary to pass law, if lawmakers areaw not there there significantly removed from the information process of lawmaking, that creates a situation where if theyre not there to lend information through first or second hand experience, then it will be much harder for them to be in in the process to know what policy provisions are in play. If theyre not there theres a simple transfer of power that leaders have more leeway to move. A related question if i could, your view with remote participation allow for regular members to make a contribution to the substance legislation or with a delimited on a practical level . They are absolutely limited, they would not be present, its unclear, maybe theres a process or technology that can make them a little more remotely enabled if you will to make a motion or point of order or offer an amendment or whatever it may be. It will be very difficult for them to participate if they were chamber. Legislative is a lot more in order to stop you have to prevent it to getting there in many cases pray that just one example of many where being in person is a substitute for going remotely. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you senator. I believe senator romney is up next are you on . Alright lets turn to senator langford, are you on i know you had another call . Senator hawley are you available. Sim mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. Thank you again for doing this and thank you to all the witnesses for being here. Can i just start with you and go back for a moment to the British Parliament. We know that the British Parliament is moving towards a Virtual Parliament and im wondering what are some lessons we think that the u. S. Congress can learn from the british experience as far. The british experience this far has involved the use of remote proceedings that something that was quite suited to the remote proceedings and that was Prime Minister questions, they did a hybrid proceeding and some members there although a significant majority were notth present. But nevertheless Prime Ministers question with the kind of thing that was not by remote proceeding mechanism. So thats it they did. And the idea was that they would begin with that in phase and other aspects of the legislator procedures of the house of commons as it became apparent that those things are technologically feasible and can be managed. That was actually the point i wanted to make in the statement that i made which is not necessarily necessary for congress to do everything ought to do all the same time. Because there may be proceedings that can be attained to a remote voting norm remote participation process more easily than other proceedings. The fact that you cant do everything at once does not mean that you should not start someplace and proceed on from there. Also the reason that i said that maybe we should take some care in terms of bending senate rules and having character and look for the possibility of perhaps a Standing Order that allows things to be done on a more experimental basis with the sunset clause so if things are not properly accomplished then the rules dont have to be amended again in order to take care ofve something. So this is obviously an experiment like the British Parliament, i would caution not to go deeply into the experiment all at once, do in the phases that can be managed with the problem has done and to consider doing it on a temporary basis to what ought to be done on a more permanent basis. Im intrigued that the British Parliament experience in the Prime Ministers questions and adopting the virtual proceeding for some of the work, not necessarily all the work, he raises the possibility which is why they q suggesting that one way for the United States congress to proceed is to staggerto our workload so we dot have to go first for everything, of course we dont have to do everything all at once, and wondering if we can say little bit more about the progression proceedings that you think are particular good places to start in terms off working virtually and implement the virtual technologies, for to stagger our workload with the extended emergency like this pandemic, what i thought look like, where would you counsel us to begin. The portman and durban resolution begins with voting. The premises members have been informed of the content of legislation but they want to have an ability to express themselves on the record as to their position on the legislation as opposed to saying something can only pass at a unanimous consent or voice vote were individual feelings are not expressed, it seems to me if you can findd the secure votes that senator was talking about in his Opening Statement that might be a place to begin, doctor has talked about the difficulty of the giveandtake on the floor, and someone must offer an amendment or making a point of order, somebody wants to do core and calling, although things were accustomed to that normal operations of the center. I made the mistake that ultimately i thought the senate should embrace as much of the as possible because the legislative voting. Is if you begin with remote voting and say at least in that sense, members will have the opportunity to express themselves in a meaningful way on the passage ore the proposal whether the final passage or legislation, whatever the boat may be, to begin there and thats a place to start and thats attuned to technology and if you can establish the technology is available, begin tole mimic as must as you can to the greater degree that you can expand this to look like the normal senator better, understanding probably unknown point will actually look like the normal senate. Doctor, let me turn to you if i could, could you on the point of voting, can you give us a word of any security concerns with the Voting System that youre aware of that you might have. Talk is throughout. Senator hawley, im not a Technology Expert and i also dont know the platforms that are out there. This is really not my forte to discuss the security issues. My understanding in many of the state legislators are doing this through other forms of technology either through facetoface communication with the proxy thats in the chamber or taking a picture of a boat or papered boat and sending intro proxy in the chamber. But voting through technology, kelly would probably have a better answer than that. Can i just asked you on the state legislator comedy of any assessment of the different approaches that the state legislatures who are experimenting with remote proceedings, how those are going or any assessment of their various approaches and what do you think are promising and what is not so promising. Theres several state legislators that everybody said this in the very beginning, were all experimenting withh it in places like pennsylvania and oklahoma where couple instances that i highlighted because i thought it was interesting and novel approach to a very difficult problem giving theth pandemic. And theyre doing proxy in remote participation component where members can participate or at least watch a live stream while loading with necessary. I think the concern comes when you bring in more controversial measures and theres disagreement among the votes in many state legislators were expressing some concerns that is a process becomes more controversy and they may become more difficult to enact or execute the process they had been using. Very good, think of her much prethank you, mr. Chairman. Senator lankford, when youre available, i know youre on another call, just time and wed love to hear from you again. If i could let me back up to the generall premise and we believe the legislative branch out to be able to express itself at all times including times of emergencies when we cannot gather or should not gather, again this does not relate just to the pandemic, i think about this in terms it was noted earlier with the bunker set up on a mountaintop in West Virginia somewhere for fear that we cannot gather certainly during 9 11 we saw this happen and it was unsafe to be on the capital and the attacks of 9 11. We had a concern in h our county for some time and bioterrorism is not a natural virus but have similar aspects in the inability for us to gather, this is about continuity, as i said earlier the fact in the constitution and among our founders where other peoples boys, were the ones representing our individual districts and states and we should be heard quickly during times of nationalst emergenciess is the case now a time when we are making huge decisions on behalf of our country in a time when our economy is in freefall and we have a Serious Health crisis, its affecting so Many Americans already resulting in some of the fatalities just in the last three months, this is the time we should be heard so my promise to this i do question for you, i agree when can meet we should meet and i think many of the observations are in theory more applicable in practice then how congress operates. I wish there was more personal interaction and i certainly try to practice on but that can be done remotely as well particular as it said earlier most days of the year were not in session. But to say there would be a concentration of power in leadership if there was no voting, the reality of what we just seen in the last couple weeks, Congress Passed, legislation last week that provided over a half trillion dollars of your tax dollars and oliver constituents tax dollars to address this pandemic. Over half a trillion dollars, this is something normally as you know we have a significant debate over hundred million here, hundred million there. Were talking about billions ofil dollars. And it begins over there and a trillion there, trillion here, because of the necessity for us y to act in the inability for us to gather, there was significant concentration of power and those who were working on this in washington in this Republican Leadership and democratic leadership, there was no debate, there were no amendments, there were no votes so i think the notion somehow remove voting leads to more concentration at least in the experience that i had in this particular pandemic and my sense as to how this could work in the future for bid there should be attack on our country, as there was 9 11 or some other way we were not able to gather, i could see where people would not have the heard. Ntatives being and whether its voting which is the ultimate sacred responsibility or whether all the processes that lead up to that including hearings like this one including opportunity to add debate, offer moments, be heard and itt seems to me that would ensure democracy is exercise. What am i missing, what are your thoughts on that . Mr. Chairman i think youre exactly right that Congress Needs to be voting at this moment and they need to be signing on the record or disagreeing on the record with the decisions that are being made in the types of policies that are being passed, i think thats a critical component. I think also highlights the importance and concerns with remote voting, when were discussing massive trillion dollarar response packages, the type of speed necessary to have these packages in a timely matter will not have normal legislative and you have the hearings in the policies and oversight hearings in the necessity of getting something out quickly means that youre going to have to obscure the deliberative process that are normal to the legislative process. The concern comes when you come to more routine legislation that congress will need to be adopted later on this year so for example the National Defense act will be something that congress may need to pass as the pandemic appropriation bill or continuing revolution of some sort made need to be addressed while the pandemic rages on and so my concern remote voting comes to limit the deliberation on the important matters that congress will o hae to adopt that are not Emergency Response packages. This is why i believe your resolution in the media will have remote participation in critical this moment and theres also longterm concerns that may limit the deliberation on very important legislation. In getting back to what he said early on its best if we can be together. But worse if we have a situation where we cannot gather in our voices are notot heard. As a o practical matter, as a professor who studies Political Science and the congress of process and procedure, a lot has to do the balance of power. So the constitution was set up to ensure that legislative branch, the judicial branch, the appropriate but not over reach, without the legislative branch being able to convene and speak, the powers speaks to the other branches. Counter to what the intention and going back to the notion to represent our states and districts, i thank you for that. My timeis is expired and will tn to senator, have some questions on the technical aspects and ill come back to ms. Kelly. Thank you mr. Chairman. One of the most valuable times of me and senate, not the times that weve spent being helpful, the most valuable time is building relationships on the congressional delegation. Im going to pick up permanent but find out what works and find a what doesnt and theres other countries in other states, the United States who been experimenting for a while and opening up, we will find out what the states are, how do we go about finding out the country around the world what works and what doesnt it would be interesting with the last few places and maybe we get from so many places or countries and we tryso this. And we see what we can learn from both of them. This may be a big stretch but the idea to take down an airplane maybe we do a couple countries together, they will learn something in those countries but also have a chance the bonds that are helpful to get things done. I want to lay that out there, on the top of my head in building relationships with people on the other side of the in building trust, interaction, one of those that are present on the call was a lot of examples with the republican from oklahoma suggest the doctor obstetrician, and in government i think a month or so ago that it was really the personal interaction that we had to develop the trust. He was like that more than now than ever. The question was you have any recommendation versus personal relationships between thehe legislators and in the senate. Yes, thank you for that question. Ive been involved with a couple of mock hearings which is what we use zoom to mimic the basic functions of a hearing in the second one had a member of the uk probably meant present, she was so generous and happy to help and so interested in what was going on in the United States as well. They good news, theres two websites that have continually updated scroll of whats going on in state legislators in the United States legislators has a pole banner in government is one of the boxes you can check, you can go in there and see continually what states are doing just from your membership on your committee, california, kentucky, oklahoma, utah, theyve all taken steps or all doing something and theyve done it differently, its really interesting to link it to the legislative language. In terms of international progress, the International Parliament union which has an entire section that looks the Information Technology and legislatures in the house for many years, thee legislative daa in the u. S. Capital every year the all the congress go to and people who keep things running behind the scenes and i think we can take reall confidence knowig the institution of congress has made Great Strides in the last ten years in congress is mostly machinereadable organization and theres treasure troves of data that are structured and made available online, a lot about what were talking about here has the foundation in place, just tos your point abot global parliamentarians and other legislatures, as you said that i thought of the Nato Parliamentary Assembly which is one of these groups that started during the cold war to bring legislators together, the u. S. Congress used to have a Robust Program that was run out of the library of congress that can be brought back, again the foundations are there, i was a National Security staff are on the hill and i worked on data and it seems for many reasons including information that the technological technical bodies should be Critical Infrastructure in looked at through Security Framework and certainly continuity of government brings into stark relief but for a lot of different reasonsns including security and continuity and access, these are issues that so many countries are facing and even though parliaments are very different than congress, there Still Congress cannot be part of a parliament and ill tell you why get stuck when you try to force it down. But a lot of these technologies were talking about have not only been metabolized into systems of governing and we can take a lot of confidence in the below share with us, for that question its important and i share those links with you how to getting daily on it. I have a related question but i would be happy to give it to one of her colleagues. Go ahead with your question. A similar question, to practice social aspect of the congressional work and opportunity of the coalition. I think one of the problems was remote participation, typically you only call or reach out in instances where you know somebody. I dont randomly call strangers, i meet them and we exchanged numbers and then build a relationship and phone calls and Text Messages can be done, i just see it as a difficult layer to socialization process, so much of congress is facetoface interaction, members bonding over the dogs or talking to one another in the hallway or down the elevator and i find that hard to replace in the remote voting setting. So i think thats one of the parts and makes i it difficult that you dont have the opportunity for space and members of different parties to coexist, you lose many of those informal touches so to speak theres been a lot of you total evidence for air travel in a congressional calendar to reshape the members of congress interacting and who they work with. So thats a broader political divide partly the case but also partly the case of members of congress dont socialize as much because they dont live in d. C. And they dont have Common Social circles with her kids dont go to the same school anymore. A lot of these informal social connections where many of the political connections bridge across the aisle and remote legislating as a permanent sense would damage and already damage situation and that particular circumstance. While its necessary, i dont think its a longterm. They told me the story early on in penicillin in the colleagues, thats a great story and you can share story but we wont go into it now with three other senators with republicans in just the ability to Work Together across the aisle is pretty extraordinary. Thank you. Thank you, senator carper, as some Technology Questions that im compelled to just comment, i Wish Congress operated more the way he explained, theres a virtually not as mucher interaction as when i first got elected back in the 90s and the house and certainly al all a myth that but i dont know remote voting is gonna be worse itll be opposite and gives us opportunity to come together which i think senator would agree, its been a month since we had bipartisannt interaction. Of any sort unless members have reachedem out as i have with senator carper and distant colleagues. But there has been no interaction, thats reality, it may not be the theory that thats a practical reality. Won this needs to be used for emergencies only, not to use as a regular procedure of course but to and has opportunities, remote interaction to enhance rather than limit the interactions we have with oure colleagues, its a matter of using technology as so many people are, half the people i represent in the state of ohio are working remotely or teleworking on Conference Calls with her colleagues and interacting with them so in a time like this when we cannot be together think its appropriate for congress not just about to havenk interaction remotely in technology is there and its very possible. I keep telling youre going to come to Young Technology and i will go into this issue and drive deeper, i see my colleague senator langford has joined us and i will give them an opportunity to answer questions. Thank you i appreciate that and i appreciate that we can be here in the backandforth time. It was exceptional helpful in how we maintain this its almost like a lightning into visit with the constituent literary during this time. I was stepping out of the hallway because there was also connecting with the panhandle my state and some questions that they had and then went back to the hearing. And those were multitasking away from the hill as being connected on it. I do want to ask some specific questions, there has been a longstanding requirement for wet signatures and processing things like that the required physical presence and your advice, how many things that have to be dealt with for dropping a bill, doing an amendment on a bill or engagement onoi any changes ande would have to have pretty dramatic changes in our back of house operation and implement bills and votee off. Senator thank you for that question. You are exactly correct, when we start to think about this for remote voting and extend that beyond the rest of the Center Operations thatse are connected and having a bill become a law, we find all manner and precedents and orders practices that are implicated in this in somebodys going to have to take a very good inventory of that and determine what has to be done and in each case to make sure you have the check the necessary box so you can get the final point of the enrollment of a bill until the courts they should be deferring to Congress Unless its properly enrolled in the necessary steps, this is exactly the reason why i dont think the senate should be going about mending his roles without having giving a lot of study to that question but for theto same reason i dont think the senate needs to paralyze itself understanding the all those things are out there. In other words you can figure out what you can do in the moment and figure out how to put a Standing Order and asked the parliamentary and the necessary boxes to check to make that work, see how it works, what is sunset, b renewed as the case may dictate. And then in the meantime determine what it is you need to do on a permanent basis proved nothing distorts the situation in congress being absent productive biggest thing. Doctor made the point about how the leadership when the individual member i agree with that, i also say the powers individual member against the leadership. If you have to get a unanimous consent to pass something in a pro forma session and somebody objects where are you or if you try to have a session and somebody puts a call in and you havent gotten members around, where are you, the point i was making my statement about the fact that many Senate Procedures require threshold from ge gettig you from point a to point b and many of them and many other things, if youre talking about 60 out of a hundred, thats one but if youre talking 60 out of 75 or 80 senators because you have a lot of people absent, thats another thing. Senator portman talked about the absence of congress and the distortion in the executive branch in its relationship. The one thing we know for sure, to think that we know for sure you have to see what boxes need to be checked in the right procedures that allow them to be checked, one thing you know for sure but the other thing you know for sure is that nothing distorts the situation more including all the personal relationships weve been talking about and for congress to be completely opposite. One of the challenges that we have, theres a perspective that the idea to make a big zoom call and they are to vote yes, sir no that will resolve the voting issue in one of the things that youin bring up that i want to bring up as well is the issue with a lot of back house that has to be done legally andf appropriately in a cant just be done by everybody just connecting online and say i know. That is something that were going off to work on. One other question ion want to k is the type of bullet should be engaged. I think well have an agreement that this should be extremely limited and extremely temporary, we would all say those moments like this that we should be able to be engaged more but we also know of and omit and move offsite for times like 9 11 and move away and wartime and we have limited access, this is not the first time nor will it be the last that weve had time that congress has not been able to meet or had to look other places or other methods to meet, part of the job so we would have is remote voting in particular and more so a Remote Committee meeting like were doing right now to roundtable, this is relatively simple to do but when you get into voting in such and try to find what bill should be appropriate to do, this is not uncommon to get into the middle debate and get a heated debate on the floor and suddenly there is a quorum call in to set i things aside so members can get a chance to talk and work out differences, you cannot do that in a remote setting the same wage other times, is there advice for anyone that you could say my perspective, and people will have a different one but you can say heres the type of vote or the type of building should be addressed in this type of moment in bills that should not be addressed in this type of moment. Thats a wonderful question. My own sense is determined because you dont understand the circumstances that will try the moment you exercise the power, for example, at the moment were not having to do a procreation, aten the moment were not havingo do without. Atwhat happens if dr. Fauci is correct . And the coronavirus comes back in the fall, particularly during the time of the session which always happens after the election in recent congress with a lot of legislation thats been left over now has to be addressed. And perhaps itas comes back in a burial informed fetishist obviously help housing for congress to convene. If you have restricted the legislation that can be addressed by this mechanism, you may defeat the purpose of the mechanism to allow for congress to participate, for members to express themselves, to represent constituents to not just have a funnel through the leadership and unanimous consent, some things cannot pass by unanimous consent. So we dont know the kind of circumstances the main necessity for this operate. It is set up now and in the summer months for whatever reason it is not necessary and then the coronavirus or some mutation of the coronavirus comes back in the fall and its very necessary but i would not advise hand streaming the kind of legislation ahead of time. One last question. Absolutely. Annoyed when over time and i appreciate that. A vote that could occur is any senate especially needing to do we have legislation and personnel where we have nominations thatle need to occu, were very behind on nominations because weve been out of session for month and displayed on the nomination process over the last several years. Shouldnt for instance be appropriate to say were going to come back in session and we will try to get through 20 different nominations in the course of the debate today in a two hour voting walk that will be available in move 24 hours a day moving through nominations even though were not physically going to be able to have a moment like that, would you consider that be appropriate inappropriate guidelines and boundaries that are set for that type of voting as well . There will not be a bipartisan agreement on this point, they know that. But my own sense is that as the constitutional responsibility of the senate, its a constitutional responsibility to deal with the vice entreaties and is a constitutional responsibility to do with legislation, i dont think that the constitutional responsibility of the senate can be off to onedi another to see these responsibilities can and cannot. I think that youre probably better off if you have some sort of agreement between b leadersh, how youre going to exercises responsibility, but just as i dont think theres a piece of legislation, i also dont think theres a six Senate Section that should be hyped off. Its probably better off to give an understanding between theet leadership of what senate will do while operating in the circumstances. Thank you. Chairman thank you. I appreciate that. Let me just say that the other challenge that we face right now where we have not been able to gather for month is that we have nominations as senator langford has talked about was specifically nominations related to covid19. So we have executive branch nominees that are needed for response to covid19 who are not controversial particularly weather would not be, i dont believe much partisanship around them and the other cant move on them because were not able to remote vote or discuss as i said earlier we have not had any such sessions, let me just ask you a couple of questions and then ill ask senator carper for his thoughts as we begin to wrap up and we said we would get you out of here before 11 00 oclock. With regard to security, what technical requirements would you think are necessary for platform that senators would used to vo vote. I am not a Computer Scientist or a technical expert, i know some of the can answer your question in great detail, i do know however, that are access to expertise is very significant in that a lot of the folks especially in d. C. Who work on this have set up whole systems for the executive branch including the defense department. Incorporation the other day on cia telecommuting where they had to create a home office. I think the interesting ideas coming out of the house i heard one that would make ci local offices or enter military and states and districts, i think those are good in the short term possibilities i do know real constitutional challenges in using things like a common cloud, securitycl for congress s to be at the spoke system, probably one of the reasons why we have not dealt built one yet is because you can only sell one, thats one of the challenges that does not excuse us of moving ahead on building modern Technology Systems for congress, one of the places i would also refer to as you p moe forward is the select committee on modernization in the house, that committee has 25 of its members from Washington State and theres something in the dna or the water and Washington State thatsh makes it such Literate Society and i think that would be a place to turn, i know sandra, derek, mr. Newhouse, continually brought up, i saw through all the hearings through the last year end half, 16 hearings, this is an issue that came up continually. So as for security and voting i would suggest looking at the written testimony to the parliament of brazil which actually four years has had a hacker lab inside the parliament and other circumstances when there is not a pandemic has experimented throughout the chambers with methods and really got a digital mimic a specific function and needs. That is the kind of thing that we can do now. Maybe we need Something Like a Chamber Challenge which challenges the typical and is a crowdsourcing ideas, i think you can crowd source ideas within the senate on the house then calls and share Lessons Learned in some kind of across chamber repositoryer getting through ino another point that you brought up, i think something that we dont know yet because its not visible, theres a large invisible constituency out there for explanation and collaboration and i call it a maker space of modern civics. I did all this District Research and states for 18 months and i was amazed at what citizens are coming up with an collaboration with their elected leaders in congress, Ohio State University is like the mothership of a lot of the innovation, i have partners at the Ohio State University and in dayton, amazing Infrastructure Ready to dig ourselves out of this memory hole that we have o been in andi also recommend this article the interested bystanders was a collaboration between google civics and im trying to remember an individual who is a civic researcher. Vic researcher, and it tald about the reorganization of mores and how much interpersonal and individualized people desire to interact with their governments. Its really a beautiful iteration of what we already i want you to be or have courage and know that there is a lot going on out there but we have not named it yet. It has everything to do with how we will organize ourselves goinf forward with those resources. They are they are. I would be happy to share the ones i know but i think if we make a place for them to show up so its not just about a vote but about a voice. That is why, i think, im interested in the deliberative process which is how do we reimagine committees during this time and maybe we can pull our new best practices out and continue forward with them when we can show up in person again. In any case, i can find you the people to answer the very specific technical questions but i hope you continue on with this concern for renewing a civics because it i think it is their. Thank you, ms. Kelly. I will say those people have found us and we have found them and some, as you know, i wrote an oped in the New York Times with one of those ethical experts a few days ago along with senator durbin and we are working with outside groups that had very strong views on this and different platforms and we are focusing on three things really authentication that it is the right person verifying dad in encryption to be sure that it cant be hacked and that it is safe and so we think as you said in your Opening Statement this is not a technical challenge but a an emotional and psychological challenge and i think that is the issue and is tradition and hard to leave tradition. Again, all of us want to eat together but the question is you cant be together how do you perform your necessary functions and i would say on top of that technology and remote interaction can improve how congress operates outside of a crisis but foreboding interaction that weve done today that has been positive so that i like to turn back to the senator for additional questions and for his closing comments and he and i appreciate his partnership in this venture as we did partner with so many other things and this is very useful exercise. Senator carper. Chairman, ms. Kelly mentioned Ohio State University and this is the chairman and [inaudible] i now have one more reason to go back and i think [inaudible] but thank you for that information. Ive beenfo jotting down and evy now and then when someone says something that i think is special and important i wanted to mention something as we wrap up here. One thing i jotted down was the technology and it should not be used routinely but particularly with voting and during emergencies and initially, with that in mind. I also wrote down its use to enhance personal relation not to diminish [inaudible] that is true so the idea as we embrace technologies we do so in a way that enhances relations and interaction. One other comment i wrote down was extremely limited [inaudible] [inaudible] another comment [inaudible] i want to ak you in closing in each of our witnesses to give one or two bullet points, admonitions, and may be what to do and not to do as we prepare but this has been fascinating and mr. Chairman, its been thoughtful and [inaudible] maybe i could wrap it up and ask with [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] if you dont remember anything else, remember this. Yes, im in a pickup. [laughter] are you in new mexico . Yes, the four corners of new mexico. I made it to dc. My thoughts as you were talking that this is a crisis but its a tremendous longterm opportuni opportunity. What i would suggest is lets ask the Tech Industry for help and lets ask them like we did in the 30s and 40s and put aside these immediate shortterm profits and go foreign eyes on the prize movement forward, a meta challenge for all of us essentially for thehe technology industry. I like to call this moment that we have with an article one at renaissance. We could come out of this with a renewed understanding of how importantt the first branch of government is for the first branch of government owns the real estate of democracy. It really does far more than the executive. We can do this. Ee have the bone structure. A lot of it is just rethinking it and bringing it into the modern era. This has been true for decades at this point and i dont want to lose that and i know in a crisis but we have already got a momentum and the fact that we have the continuity working group and it has this great group of people working here on this panel today and people who thought about these challenges already and bring their skills to bear right now but lets not eaforget that this is our moment to have this renaissance in article one and the move forward into the 21st century at long last as a much improved democratic system. You got to remind me that something Albert Einstein said that [inaudible] [inaudible] breeds opportunity. I think it was rahm emanuel who said [inaudible] correct that is true too. [inaudible] i just want to thank the chairman and Ranking Member for gathering us today in a very difficult moment right now as a country and this is a very, very important issue about how Congress Continues to function h when health risks emerge and holding this hearing is in many ways a validation that it could work and can continue to operate in these difficult moments and we want to draw attention to ways of the congress can continue to operate even in very difficult circumstances. [inaudible] thank you, senator. I would just emphasize the importance of being willing to experiment with new things. The senate is a venerable institution. It changes slowly, as you know. The body does not attend to adapt itself to new situations. Im reminded of the television and the controversy of the senate on television. It was originally proposed by senator mansfield for the use in the nixon impeachment trial that never happened. Itit was adapted for one momentn 1974 when the senate swore in Nelson Rockefeller and then the place was dark again for more than a decade. House of representatives in 1979, when my old boss, he proposed it in 1981 and it was resisted for five years pass the time he served in office until finally in 1986 senator dole put in the television in the Center Resolution and on an experimental basis it was only after he was in effect for several months that the Senate Finally decided to proceeded wih it. To tell you the truth that entire experience decades between mansfield proposal and the final implementation of television is emblematic of the senate. If the senate had not been willing to experiment with that who knows where we would be today where the public would regard the senate as an artifact of the constitutional level rather than a central part. Needs to experiment with this and i would very much encourage it along the lines thaten was made this morning. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if i could, we have legislative correspondent [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] thank you, senator carper. We appreciate it to the point of things are changing we just had anotherth Facebook Live at town hall and done one every week during this monthlong absence from washington and that is where people are. They are online in the interaction we are talking about with members of congress could be enhanced through technology, in my view, even outside a crisis. It relates to our constituents and our ability to communicate with them could be enhanced through not just remote voting or governance but remote participation as weve had today so first of all, i want to thank all our witnesses and this is been a tremendous opportunity to glean from your expertise and your knowledge and backgrounds so to marty gold, thank you, as usual. You got your foot firmly planted on the traditions of the senate but also how to move forward and make the senate more effective and as you said, we made changes and you were not around before the filibuster but what a big change that has resulted in and ms. Kelly, thank you very much for your focus on the technological opportunities here and doctor hooter, thank you for your willingness to share with us your concerns about the need for us to do this and await the results in not less interaction so congress will not be polarized. I think those are good points. I thought the Opening Statements were great but also you will have the opportunity to make a longer statement for the record which we will have online and by the way, to that point, i would urge everyone who is watching today or listening today, check out the report. Its a bipartisan report has senator carper will tell you we try to do things together and we have come up with a consensus document that i think is very helpful we think about this issue broadly. We will see issues we discussed today outlined in additional issues as well. You can find it on his [inaudible] its the name of the committee and that is hs da dac senate. Gov. Hs dac senate. Gov. Go to the tsi link, its permanent subcommittee on investigations, the subcommittee that we are in currently so hs dac senate. Gov and psi link. Senator carper, thank you again for being a great partner today and showing how we can function even during a National Crisis and i look forward to the time when both of us can be back together in the hearing room and working on our other psi projects as we have many in the works. Again, meanwhile, this was a very successful experiment and its an example of what can happen in again thats a senate first and i hope it will be one that other committees and subcommittees will look at as an example of what we can do, even at a time when we are not able together physically. I want to thank the senate staff who made this possible. Carl jackson in the senates Recording Studio team, thank you all very much. Thanks for doingep our challengs in the last couple of weeks thank you. This technology is offtheshelf and its available to others but it is one that we had to perfect and we thank you for your work on that. I also want to thank all the other staff that has been so helpful. Dan, we heard from dan earlier and has been terrific. He will not cut me off because i want to say nice things but kate has done a good job of monitoring this today. Also, of course, our team. Andy, and others we want to thank you, senator carper and i appreciate you helping this happen. Again, its an opportunity for us to show what can be done through technology and specifically today to get more information out about remote voting. Weve done some very good principles that ought to apply and again not just in the situation as mr. Gold said but may be replicated down the line sadly but in all situations to have that toolbox in case it is needed to make sure the legislative branch or the one branch as was said the first branch has the ability to continue to express itself. Thank you again, thank you, senator carper andes we look forward to seeing you all soon. This roundtable is adjourned. Following an extended recess to cover the pandemic u. S. Senate is back today at 3 00 p. M. Eastern for legislative work. Senators will debate the Nuclear Regulatory commission nominee for inspector general. A vote on the nominee set for 5 30 p. M. Eastern today. Later in the week we could see work on National Security related executive nominations and pfizer reauthorization. See the summits alive this afternoon at 3 00 p. M. Eastern here on cspan2. The president , from Public Affairs available now in paperback and an ebook. Presented biographies of every president organized by their ranking by noted historians from best to worst it features perspective of the lives of her nations chief executive and leadership style. Visit our website cspan. Org the president to learn more about these president in history and features. Order your copy today wherever books and ebooks are sold. Senator tim scott and u. S. Chbe