Transcripts For CSPAN2 Lew Paper In The Cauldron 20240713

If there are any veterans or activeduty service men please rise so we can acknowledge your service, thank you. [applause] today is a day that marked the transition of america from an isolationist nation to a global superpower. There are few days like september 7th because of what it meant for the world we live in today. We are fortunate to be able to honor a wonderful program, a new book that has just come out. How many, if you remember, look at that, that is great, thank you, your support makes these programs possible. Because members and trustees like you that we can do these programs. Last year clint lobby was our program manager, we put on 58 programs at the library which is very impressive. [applause] because of your support we can have these programs for free, it is a way to give back to the community because we feel so strongly, fdr loved this area and wanted it used in is a and we are honoring citizen so our speaker today, lew paper, is a journalist, he taught at harvard and was involved in georgetown but he also written a number of very interesting books. He is the author of perfect about the don larson world series, remember that . Perfect pitch world series, he wrote a book called promise and performance about john f. Kennedy and i want to hear about this, he wrote a novel about john f. Kennedy, right . Deadly risk, about his assassination. He wrote both nonfiction and fiction book, i bet they are a good combination. A book called empire and william haley. William haley was the man who built cbs and his rise to power parallels fdrs period of radio into television and probably one of the most fascinating and powerful media moguls in america. Another book on the we brandeis, Supreme Court justice. He has deep grounding in Twentieth Century American History which allows him to bring a really fresh perspective to the book he is talking about today which is called in the cauldron terror, tension, and the american ambassadors struggle to avoid pearl harbor. This is a complicated period and a complicated story about how president roosevelt was trying to navigate this transition from america being on a socialist neutral country and wanted to get into this war but didnt want to get into the war with japan, but germany and of course american policy was forcing a decision one way or another. The book is called in the cauldron terror, tension, and the american ambassadors struggle to avoid pearl harbor. There will be a book signing after words, please welcome lew paper. Thank you for coming. When paul said he was going to introducing i had one request, i dont care if it is true or not, just make me look good. I think he did a great job. I want to thank paul and cliff for the invitation to be here. A great honor, very privileged and very flattered to have received the invitation. Being here has a special meaning for me. When i was a little boy my father talked to me all the time about president roosevelt. The reason my father talked to me about president roosevelt was because i had been stricken with polio as a little boy. My father wanted me to know that polio would not prevent me from being a success in life and he had no better example than president roosevelt. I was very fortunate. My polio is not as severe as president roosevelts. Later when i got a little older my father brought me here to the library and the museum. It was a special trip. I was awestruck by the place. I can only say i wish my father could be with me today. I think he would really enjoy it but enough about these personal matters. Pearl harbor. We have all seen that film of president roosevelt standing in the wells of the United States on december 8th, 1941, saying saying that december 7th, 1941, is a date that would live in infamy because of japans surprise attack on the Us Naval Base at pearl harbor. There is no evidence that president roosevelt or his cabinet knew in advance specifically that japan would attack pearl harbor but they should not have been surprised that japan would attack the United States. In november of 1941 only a few weeks before pearl harbor, joseph grew spent two telegrams, secretary of state, warning him that japan was prepared to launch a suicidal war against the United States and that Armed Conflict would come with dangerous and dramatic suddenness. Who was joseph grew and how did he know that . In november of 1941 joseph grew was 61 years old, tall, lean, bushy eyebrows, full mustache, he had been an american diplomat for almost 40 years and he had been americas ambassador to japan can you hear me better now . Okay. I was using the wrong microphone. In any event joseph grew had been an american diplomat for almost 40 years. He had been americas ambassador to japan for almost 10 years. There were four factors that led grew to send those two telegrams to secretary of state cordell hall in november of 1941. The first factor was the japanese economy. The United States had imposed economic sanctions on japan in an effort to curb japans military aggression in china and Southeast Asia. Those economic sanctions had crippled the japanese economy. Rice was being rationed. There was no gasoline for cars. The few cars that traverse tokyo streets had to be fitted with charcoal engines. Imported coffee was also unavailable. It had been replaced by another brew about which the New York Times correspondent said it was better not to ask too many questions. There was a second factor that led grew to send those telegrams to secretary of state cordell hall in november of 1941 and that was the japanese mindset. Grew new the crippled economy would lead to a sense of desperation among the japanese and a sense of desperation would lead to war. It was part of that samurai do or die spirit that still prevailed in japan. Bloom knew that for japanese leaders annihilation through a suicidal war with the United States was better than the humiliation of succumbing to american pressure. There is a story which illustrates that japanese mindset. In the fall of 1941 he received word from the American Embassy in china about a japanese soldier who had been captured by chinese troops in the fighting there. The japanese soldier came from a welltodo family and wanted his family back in japan to know that he was alive and well. Grew past the word on to the japanese government and soon received a reply. The japanese government said that neither it nor this mans family were interested. As far as they were concerned, that japanese soldier was dead because said the government any japanese soldier who had allowed himself to be captured had dishonored his family and dishonored his government. There was a third factor that led grew to send those telegrams to cordell hall in november of 1941. And that concerned the japanese leaders ability to control the japanese population. If i was writing a book about nazi germany, i would not have to tell you about the brutality of the government. Japan was also a very repressive society. Secret police were everywhere, surveillance was pervasive. No dissent was allowed. And indiscreet word uttered to a friend, a neighbor, a Family Member and a person can find themselves arrested, thrown in jail and subjected to horrific torture. Crew understood the upshot of all this. If japanese leaders issued a command to launch a suicidal war against the United States, the japanese people would obey that command and they would fight to the death. There is a fourth factor that led grew to send those telegrams to call in november of 1941 and that revolved around discussions with japanese representatives were having in washington dc, to secretary of state cordell hall about a possible agreement between japan and the United States to resolve the differences between the two countries. Notwithstanding that samurai do or die spirit japanese leaders recognized the risk of war with the United States and so they supported an initiative in the spring of 1941 to hand discussions with hall in washington to see if the two countries could reach an agreement. For his part, secretary of state cordell hall knew there was virtually no chance of japan and the United States reaching an agreement. Hall regarded japan as one of the Worst International desperados in the history of mankind. He subscribe to the view that no promises of the jet as he called them on paper would be worth anything but he could not tell that directly to the japanese representatives who came to washington dc because in the spring of 1941 americas military capabilities were woefully inadequate and so president roosevelt and the military chiefs urged hall to drag those conversations out with the japanese as long as possible to give the United States time to bolster its military capability and to defer or delay any conflict in the pacific for which the United States was not prepared and so that is what hall did. From the spring through the summer into the fall of 1941 he spent untold hours talking with japanese representatives about an agreement he probably knew would never come to fruition. By the fall of 1941 grew reported to hall from tokyo that japanese leaders were very frustrated about the lack of progress in the discussions and that the japanese leaders were beginning to sense that the United States was not really interested in an agreement and the United States was merely playing for time but for japan, time was running out. In the month before pearl harbor grew made many recommendations to president roosevelt and secretary of state cordell hall about things they could do that makes avoid the war that grew sign coming. Very few of grews recommendations were acknowledged, none was accepted. Why . Because back in the United States and especially in Washington People could not believe that japan would directly attack the United States. The United States was so much larger in terms of population and resources, people in washington and elsewhere thought it would be utterly stupid for japan to directly attack the United States. And so grew would later write that american policy in the months before pearl harbor was completely inflexible and that his reporting to the government from tokyo was like throwing pebbles into a lake at night. When pearl harbor occurred, as you might imagine joseph grew was very frustrated and very bitter because he felt the Roosevelt Administration had squandered a chance to possibly avoid war. When pearl harbor did occur grew and other members of the American Embassy in tokyo were immediately arrested and taken as prisoners of war. They were all placed in the American Embassy in tokyo for about 6 months while japan and the United States worked out a Diplomatic Exchange agreement so that american diplomats in japan could return to the United States and japanese diplomats in the United States could return to japan. During the six months he was held as a prisoner of war joseph grew wrote a 60 page report the detailed his criticism of american policy in the month before pearl harbor. Group plans to give that report to president roosevelt and secretary of state cordell hall when he returned to the United States but it never happened. When grew returned to the United States in august of 1942 he showed the report to secretary of state cordell hall. Hall glanced at the report, hall immediately saw that the report criticized decisions which hall had made in the months before pearl harbor. Hall immediately demanded that grew destroy that report. Grew felt he had no choice but to agree to halls demand and so he destroyed that report. I should add there is no evidence that president roosevelt knew about the report or its destruction. For his part, grew never publicly acknowledged the destruction of the report even when he was asked in a postwar congressional hearing whether he had prepared any report to give to hall upon his return to the United States. Thank you for that indulgence. How did i come to write this book . About joseph grew and pearl harbor . About 6 years ago i was going to write a book about america in 1941. It was a pivotal year for the country. Franklin roosevelt had been inaugurated for an unprecedented third term as president. The uaw had signed its first contract with a car manufacturer. The new york yankeess joe dimaggio had a record which still stands and japan attacked pearl harbor. In the course of my research i came across the name of joseph grew, and his effort to orchestrate an agreement between japan and the United States to avoid the war he saw coming. I was intrigued and the more i researched, the more i realized grews story had never been told and so i switched gears to tell that story. Writing this book, i wanted to bring the characters alive for the reader. Take president roosevelt, he is a central figure in this drama. When you see roosevelt standing in the well of the United States house of representatives on december 8th, 1941, saying that december 7th, 1941, was a date that would live in infamy, he looked so strong, he sounds so vibrant and yet as we discussed, here is a man who had been stricken by polio and could not walk. I was thinking about it when i was writing the book. You and i get up in the morning, go to the bathroom, do our business, come back, get dressed, go about our day. Roosevelt could not do all of that without assistance and that assistance was not going to be provided by his wife eleanor, she had her own bedroom down the hall in the white house, more than that, she was almost always traveling. Instead, roosevelt relied on a valet. Roosevelt had two valets during his 12 years in the white house and i thought wouldnt it be great if i could find some commentary from those valets about what roosevelt was like in those private moments with his valet and i was able to find that commentary. I learned that those private moments with his valet roosevelt almost always displayed the sweet, amiable disposition. Roosevelts valet in december of 1941 was arthur prettyman, a big black man who was chief petty officer in the United States navy, was also a very goodlooking guy and although prettyman was married, roosevelt liked to tease prettyman about being a ladies man. And every time roosevelt would tease prettyman about being a ladies man, he would respond, one does not refute the chief executive, mister president. I wanted to provide that same intimacy in talking about joseph grew. To do that i talked to many members of his family. His grandchildren, his cousins, greatgrandchildren, they told me many stories that were very useful. One story stood out because it displayed the diplomatic skills and his stature. It was january of 1949, grew was asked to provide some remarks at the dinner in honor of general George C Marshall who was retiring as secretary of state. General marshall had been chief of the army during world war ii. After the war truman appointed him secretary of state. Now, in january of 1949 general marshall was going to retire to his farm in virginia with his wife. In the audience was general Dwight D Eisenhower and his wife may me. Im sure you all know the general eisenhower is the one who led the allied invasion of normandy. In his Closing Remarks in honor of general marshall grew said all he wanted to do was retire to his farm in virginia with mrs. Eisenhower. As soon as he said that people began to laugh. Grew immediately recognized his mistake and quickly and clearly said, my apologies to the general. At that point general eisenhower blurted out, which general . I did not rely solely on discussions with members of grews family. I also had access to a lot of documents. No documents was more important than grews diary. This guy was incredibly disciplined, through his long diplomatic career, almost every evening during the weekend on weekends he would sit at his desk, his pipe clinched between his teeth, his smith corona typewriter in front of him and he would write out what had happened, what had been said and what he had thought the previous day. I had access to thousands of pages of grews diary. I knew almost everything he did, everything he said everything he thought in those months before pearl harbor. I knew what time he got up in the morning. I knew that his favorite scotch whiskey was Johnny Walker red and i knew too about his very deep feelings for his wife alice. In fact in many respects, this book is a love story. When joseph grew married alice perry in 1904 she was a tall vivacious, beautiful woman with long, dark hair. Alice came from a prominent family in boston but she had little formal education because the family was always traveling but alice was very smart and she had a lot of opinions. Alice wanted to share those opinions with her husband and he was willing to listen. Grew told his daughters that he rarely sent out an Important Message or communication are really did anything of any consequence without consulting alice but alice was a Formidable Force in her own right. That was illustrated by story told by grews private secretary. It concerned a social evening at the American Embassy in tokyo shortly before pearl harbor. The groups invited over for dinner so robert craigy, British Ambassador to japan and his wife lady craigy. The groups liked the robert craigy but they did not like lady craigy, they thought she was a nasty woman. In any event, at these social occasions at the American Embassy in tokyo they would often show a movie after dinner. The problem was the predictive they used to show the movie was often breaking down. On this particular occasion as they were watching a movie the projector again broke down. When it did, lady craigy turns to alice and said isnt it unfortunate, my dear that that machine of yours is always breaking down. Without skipping a beat alice turned to lady craigy and said yes, but isnt it great that we have no important guests tonight . I tried to provide that same intimacy in describing the other characters in this drama, both american and japanese and if you read the book you will see that the attack at pearl harbor was not merely a clash of governments. It was the product of the personalities, the perspectives and the prejudices of people like you and me and if you read this book it will change the way you look at pearl harbor. So i want to thank you for coming and if people have questions, if anybody has any questions i will be happy to answer any questions anyone might have. Just keep it clean. I think there is a microphone. [applause] i have a couple of questions. One of the things the japanese are fairly well known for his their resourcefulness. If me but we all i think pretty much drove here today and we are aware of the price of gas. Back in those days the japanese, one of the primary sources of fuel for not only their navy but their army and their domestic use pretty much came from the United States. It seems like the british, the germans with their raters steaming around the Southeast Asia coast, they didnt have any problem getting fuel for their ships, the british didnt have any problem getting fuel for their ships. In 1937 the japanese attempted to get an Oil Consortium agreement with southeast taymor and nothing seemed ever to happen. Why couldnt the japanese by fuel from the netherlands, east indies and their series of islands which were so flush with oil, why do they have to come 5000 miles across the pacific and 5000 miles back . That is a good question. I know that doesnt pertain exactly to what you were talking about but he had been there for 10 years and i cant help but think somewhere along the lines, maybe think about another fuel source other than the us. Grew wasnt going to help the japanese in that regard. Notwithstanding anything i said, grew was a patriot and he saw his role as an ambassador as a representative of the United States, he saw it as his mission to promote peace because he had been in the Berlin Embassy in germany during world war i. He only stood the consequence of war, he knew what war brought so he was desperate to try to avoid war not to advance the cause of the japanese but to protect america. Grew would not have given the japanese any advice about that but the japanese, youre correct, are very resourceful and they did pursue other alternatives to get oil. They were stymied everywhere they went, in part, not entirely but in part because the United States also recognized what you just said and worked with other countries to prevent japan from running around the embargoes and sanctions which the United States imposed because japan could be resourceful and get around it, the sanctions would not be effective in the United States government was very much aware of that. I have one other question since you were able to see all these diaries mister grew. Is there any mention of a person, did he keep a diary like that only in japan but the whole time . Yes. Was there any mention of the person by the name of tyler kent . Really testing me now. I cant remember the name quite frankly. You can go i should say for those who are interested in the book, you can go to my website lew paper. Com, there is a description of the book and you can see some reviews and a video about the book. I know it doesnt sound like a blockbuster but there is a video and the reason i bring it up for this gentleman and for any of you, if you have questions after you leave here today and wish you had asked this or that you can go to my website and you can reach me through my website and if you send me a question i will do my best to answer it promptly. You are welcome, thank you. Japanese desperados, they were more than that, cordell holland other countries are aware of what is happening in china, this wasnt just a mere battle or fight going on, this was distraction of her renders proportions. You have said cordell hall made certain mistakes as repeated in his paper. Anything and i respect show what these mistakes . The Japanese Military engaged, they were brutal, they engaged in a number of atrocities, thousands of chinese civilians were raped, murdered, beaten, it was unspeakable. That was the army and they did do very bad things but i will say this, the United States, grew understood and accepted that but grew was looking out for the United States and he did not want the United States to be involved in a war if they could avoided with maintaining their integrity. In terms of what hall did, hall to give you my perspective this was grews perspective, grew felt certainly in retrospect that secretary of state paul was not receptive to suggestions which grew had made that grew thought would avoid the war and in terms of the mistakes, one of the mistakes he made from grews perspective concerned a meeting that grew, the japanese Prime Minister had requested a meeting with president roosevelt. This was in the summer and fall of 1941 and this Prime Minister had a unique stature and commanded respect from all the competing factions in japan and he told grew that he was prepared to go to the United States and meet with roosevelt on american soil anywhere roosevelt wanted and that he would give the president concessions to reach an agreement to avoid war because this Prime Minister desperately wanted to avoid war and in his camp with the emperor. Japan had an emperor who was revealed throughout japan and in those days i think the emperor truly wanted a diplomatic resolution. The Prime Minister told grew that if he could meet with roosevelt he had the support of the emperor to stop the fighting, japanese troops in china. Hall did not want roosevelt to meet with the Prime Minister and he convinced roosevelt not to meet with the Prime Minister. Roosevelt wanted to meet with the Prime Minister because president roosevelt had great confidence in his ability to deal with other people. He met with a lot of foreign leaders during world war ii. In terms, what hall did wrong, grew felt hall was very inflexible and not receptive to suggestions that grew thought might lead to avoidance of war. Did groove feel the japanese would ever withdraw from china . And if not, what would be the basis of a peace treaty . Did he think japan would withdraw from china . He thought interesting you bring that up, that is good point. Grew was sailing back from japan in august of 1942 and he had this report that i described a moment ago that he wanted to give to president roosevelt and cordell hall, while he was on the ship coming back to america, grew wrote a very long letter to president roosevelt, this was a dear frank letter, they went to School Together so grew and roosevelt knew each other very well. Grew drafted a dear frank letter on the ship to explain that he was attaching a copy of this report and in that letter grew explained to the japanese Prime Minister had said that the chinese troops would be withdrawn except for a small contingent in manchuria and so that is what grew was told and the Prime Minister had told grew, had the support of the emperor in doing that. In an interview 30 years ago when asked if he had bucked the army, hirohito i believe said he would have been assassinated by the army if he had bucked the army. I cant respond that because i havent seen that comment. I can tell you that the emperor was revered but the emperor was somebody, he wasnt a passive receptacle. Throughout this time. Go he was engaged with the civilian and military and what they should do and i will tell you that in the final months in the fall of 1941 when a lot of people in the military were pushing for a war with the United States that here of ito, the emperor, did not want it. So when this Prime Minister that i mentioned a moment ago, he resigned in october of 1941 because he cannot get the meeting with roosevelt, the new Prime Minister was tojo point. He was trimester when japan attacked pearl harbor. Tojo was a general in the Japanese Army and there was a lot of pressure from the army from which he came to go to war with the United States and hirohito and his advisers told tojo when he became Prime Minister in october of 1941 that he should every policy statement japan had adopted previously and wipe the slate clean message and tojo was to do everything he could within reason to reach a diplomatic resolution with the United States and tojo from his perspective felt he had to abide by that, it didnt work out in part because as i say i think the japanese, rightly or wrongly felt they were never going to get anywhere with the United States to reaching an agreement. The bottom line is i cant speak to the comment you made because i never saw that interview but i can tell you the generals were willing to stay their hand and response to a request from the emperor that they find of diplomatic resolution. Good afternoon. Thank you for coming. Question for you, during the period of time you are speaking about, did joseph grew have any communication or a good repertoire if any with william dodd, fdrs ambassador to germany at that time . Interesting comment because i do discuss that. Is a reason you should go by the book. I do talk about that. Dodd died in 1940 at the age of 70 but in 1941. Apps diary was published in the United States and it was later used as a basis for book by erik larson called in the garden of beasts. When dodds book came out grew was very much aware who he was because joseph grew was a dean of the United States diplomatic corps so he was very interested in seeing what god had to say about germany in part because grew had served in the embassy in germany and because like dodd he was wrestling with a country bent on war and so i cant remember, i would say a good 1015 pages of grews diary devoted to his analysis of dodds tenure as ambassador to germany from 19331937. I dont want to spend a lot of time detailing that but the bottom line of it was that grew had a very low opinion of dodd as an ambassador and so he did not serve the country well because he did not, grew felt that god had not adequately advanced american interests in dealing with hitler. I wanted to go back to grews suggestions to roosevelt and cordell hall. Besides the meeting with the Prime Minister were there other suggestions . There were a number of other suggestions. One suggestion that grew made was he felt that roosevelt should issue a statement that would be wellpublicized in the United States that grew would have publicized in japan, that roosevelt would explain the benefits that would accrue to japan if they abandoned their military policies and adopted more peaceful courses. Grew was concerned because the Japanese Press was controlled by the government and the japanese leaders, the Japanese Press and japanese leaders, grew felt, had a mistaken view about sentiment in the United States. There were a lot of isolationist movements led by lindbergh and others in the United States, and whenever isolationists in the United States made statements they were given great publicity in japan, grew was concerned the japanese had a mistaken view of what the United States was willing to do and whether the United States would stand up for itself so he wanted to counter that and he told roosevelt that if you can make a statement to explain the benefits that would accrue to japan i will make sure through my contacts that this gets a lot of publicity so everybody, japanese leaders and the japanese people understand the benefits they would have if they changed their policies. That was one suggestion that roosevelt never accepted. I was wondering, what was japans overall Strategic Plan for the empire and their place in the world . Had there been a peace treaty that would have been signed, would they have kept expanding throughout Southeast Asia . Would war have been eventual . Nobody can answer that question. I would say this. Grew thought there is no guarantee in this business. There are so many factors in the situation is so fluid. To your last point first he couldnt guarantee what the future would hold but he did think that if the United States could reach an agreement that japan might get the benefits it was seeking without war. You have to remember that japan is an island a nation of islands. They have very few resources, they have a big population but few resources. China and Southeast Asia, indochina were very important to the japanese because they were rich in the resources japan did not have. Japan had a legitimate right to be in china. They had a railroad and other rights that enabled them to stay there and they could have stayed there. Japan had interest in china long before there was a war. I guess the response to your question is grew certainly believed there was a chance, a reasonable chance that there could be a benefit to japan but to your other point as i mentioned, japanese leaders understood the risk of war with the United States. They understood they could not survive a long war with the United States. Admiral yamamoto is the one who devised the strategy to attack pearl harbor and he did it because he said japan cant last in a long war with the United States and the only way we can survive in a war is to deal the United States a crippling blow at the outset and he thought an attack at the naval base at pearl harbor would do that but even yamamoto in september of 1941 said the war had so little chance of success should not be far. There is a possibility certain elements in japan would have responded to an agreement that promised the benefits japan needed. One short question. Why, as mister grew would say, good friend of franklin roosevelt, did he not send a letter not just to mister hall, his boss, but pay, frank, you are to understand what i know. Why today people would do that. What was the attitude in 1942 . That is a good question in the short answer is grew did write several dear frank letters. He knew the president was busy with many things but periodically he did write letters to president roosevelt, dear frank letters, the problem was that roosevelt was primarily concerned with hitler and roosevelt deferred most of the decisions and japanese policy to salt because he was so focused on that. To give an example of what happens, grew wrote a letter to president roosevelt, one of these dear frank letters september 20 ninth 1941. To tell him about the things he thought roosevelt should do including meeting with the japanese Prime Minister to see if they could reach an agreement. What happens . The letter comes to roosevelt, roosevelt gives the letter to the state department to draft a reply and grew finally gets a reply from roosevelt drafted by the state department on october 30th, 1941. By then the horse had left the barn and the Prime Minister had been forced to resign because he could not arrange this meeting but grew recognized that, felt there were only so many letters he could write. I guess the question is should he have come back room japan . Travel wasnt easy in those days but that is a good question. One more question . Dont sell yourself short. Depends on your answer. You mentioned ambassador grew was the dean of the diplomatic corps. Yes. But by that i mean he was a senior diplomat. There was the existence at that time of something called in a abd license in the southwest pacific, australia, america, britain and the east indies and this was signed off by fdr, the secretary of war, stimson and knox. Was not a treaty per se because it had never been approved by the senate. My question, heres my question, based on the knowledge and existence of this treaty, as early as february 20 eighth 1941 there was a combined Communications Alliance held by these four countries and they exchanged all the code information that all those countries new collectively, everybody had some skin in the game. The us is short on intelligence but yet we had ships. My question, was senator grew aware of this alliance . Did the state department, the embassy in japan have any crossover or exchange of information with either the navy or the Naval Intelligence if you know . That is a good question. The short answer is grew was a civilian employee so grew had very little contact with the military and the United States but that said, grew was friends with and collaborated with the diplomats in all those countries you mentioned in tokyo. I mentioned the 1story, sir robert craig, the British Ambassador, grew answer robert craigy were very close. Grew was on close terms with all the ambassadors from the United States allies and they exchanged information regularly. They met regularly. Anything they felt they could share they did. They were pretty much in the same boat. After grew return from japan did he have a role in us policy toward japan . What was he doing at that point . That is a good question. Because he was a loyal subordinate he destroyed that report. Grew continued in the state department. He started off as an assistant to secretary of state cordell hall and became chief of the far eastern division. In november of 1944 cordell hall resign as secretary of state and was replaced by jimmy burns. In november of 1944 grew was appointed under secretary of state which is the number 2 position in the state department. During 1945 grew spent a lot of time as acting secretary of state, the acting secretary of state was traveling around so much they were forming the United Nations in dealing with a lot of things. The secretary of state was outside washington, grew became acting secretary of state. And when the bombs were dropped in hiroshima and nagasaki. Then he retired on august 15th, 1945, after the bomb was dropped. At that point grew was 65 years old. It is middle age. He was 65 years old. He commanded the respective a lot of people which goes back to the Retirement Party for general George C Marshall, with the stature. Grew was a pow. Did a change after the doolittle raiders on tokyo they were held, they were not out and about and the embassy had. After a lot of people who worked in the embassy lived outside the embassy before pearl harbor. When pearl harbor occurred the Embassy Staff was relocated, there was not enough room for everybody in the embassy so offices were turned into bedroom so people can stay but grew, i dont think he had contact with other prisoners of war. He really didnt. They were pretty much confined to the embassy. They didnt have Radio Communications and were rarely let out of the embassy. It changed when the bombing hit . They were traded treated better than most prisoners of war. They were living in the American Embassy which was crowded but was a very nice embassy but relatively good compared to the treatment of other prisoners of war. On that score by way of comparison, american journalists in tokyo reporting for the newspaper, almost all the newspaper journalists were arrested as prisoners of war, they were tortured, just one little story about that, on the ship that is supposed to take a group act, all the embassy and other americans and journalists, released the journalists and were on that ship as well and there was a delay because the United States insisted on getting some people in northern japan on a ship. There was a delay on the ship leaving yokohama harbor. The passengers were not told why there was a delay in passengers became concerned the ship is not going to leave and they were going to be taken off the ship and taken back to the land in japan and one of the journalists there said i will jump in the water and drown myself before i will go back on land in japan. That should give you some picture how japan treated other prisoners of war. [applause] i want to thank you for coming. I just hope if you do read the book i hope you enjoyed and learned something from it, thank you. There will be a book signing in the lobby. [applause] you are watching a special edition of booktv airing during the week while members of congress are in their districts. Enjoy booktv now and over the weekend on cspan2. This weekend on booktv, saturday at 6 p. M. Eastern richard cordray. Its about consumers and the problems they face. Its about Consumer Finance and how its changed and its about the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the role and importance of the work that it engages in to protect people across america. Sunday at 12 30 p. M. Eastern h. R. Mcmaster, former Trump Administration National Security adviser. The United States and other free and open societies will do everything we can to protect ourselves against the efforts of the Chinese Communist party that subverts our free economic market systems and our democratic form of governance. And at 6 20 p. M. Ruth gilmore. The fact that most people leave prison do a a little bitf analysis to see that we could be closing prisons already and jails already if we just cut by two weeks and three weeks and four weeks much less years the kinds