So kevin merida, why is espn putting down a book called the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world. Guest our platform that focuses on race, sports and culture, weve done a digital project in 2017, to the first africanamerican president , hence the title the fee is 44. We had this idea, lets do in homage to i think the greatest achievement for africanamericans, to become president. Host who should be on the list . It was an Interactive Digital project and it was well received, highly debated and Houghton Mifflin harcourt publisher said could you turn this into a Childrens Book and because there are not a lot of africanamerican biographies of a genre that is popular, childrens biography collections so they robert ball had these beautiful illustrations so we edited our digital project and turned it into a book. What the format of this book . Short bio sketches coupled with illustrations and it just gives you the best give kids enough that they can learn about these tremendous africanamerican achievers and absorb some of the inspiration and greatness black americans have contributed to this country. Host you mentioned your editor in chief of the undefeated, that is part of espn. When they come about and why . We launched it in may of 2016. It was the idea of a reformer president , john skipper and the idea that here we have a Digital Process that conserve a really loyal overindexing audience from digital and help espn to bring our own aesthetic and sensibility to espn where race, sports and culture intersect. Sports is much about culture too and so that came about. I was at the Washington Post when you and i knew each other and after a lost of debate i was presented with this opportunity and decided to go ahead and give a shot especially as a startup with espn. Host you were managing editor of the Washington Post and how much debate happened in your family . Guest a lot of debate, particularly my wife but sometimes you disrupt your own career and wants to do Something Different, take a little bit of a leap off of that cliff and try Something Different so i decided to do that and it was fantastic. Why 44 biographical sketches . It was a play off of the 40 fourth president and so he was exiting the white house and we said we will do 44. It was originally called the undefeated 44. These were our selection, there was a lot of fierce debate. You can imagine because there are many many more than 44 great africanamericans. We dont say this is the greatest black achievers ever, we dont try to put that, these are just 44 that we looked at that fit the sensibility of the first African American president in the sense that here is something that they did something pioneering, something disrupting, in some cases noisy geniuses or quiet innovators but they did something extraordinary in their own space. Believe me it was knock down drag out debate among our staff and we kind of did it democratically where if to get on the list you had to convince the group this person should be on the list and if you were going to add someone you had to say who are we going to take off and it was a lot of back and forth and a lot of people were left off but a lot of great people are on this list. Host what do you want Young Readers to know about barack obama despite besides being the first black president . Guest the nba allstar weekend in chicago happened to have an event the my colleague at espn was hosting and it had barack obama was there with chris paul and kevin love and it was discussion about what athletes do and how they use their influence on issues and it was a reminder of what someone like obama does to elevate a discussion and he was interacting with the athletes and you could watch the athletes in the sense of thinking more deeply about how they could influence and use their own power for good on social issues, fascinating discussion. I think it is hard to become president. I dont care who you are. We are watching that now. It is really difficult, a long journey so to be the first africanamerican to do that is a signature achievement many people thought they would never see in their lifetimes so that always stands at the top of the mountain. The majority of the profiles are not athletes. We have 6 athletes and so even those, the people who were left out, the athletes that we do have on the list, serena williams, simone bios, arguably the greatest a missed ever. I think shes the greatest gymnast ever, Michael Jordan who kind of not only was he the first black athlete outside of oj who really kind of set a model for how athletes could do in business and represent big corporate brands and he had a style and the kind of swagger in addition to his highflying ability so there are a lot of reasons why various people got picked and we could say there are a lot of great athletes, hank aaron is not on the list and he could have easily been on the list but i think that the athletes we do have our amazing. Who is not in the book that you personally wanted in the book . I dont know. Your choices get picked . Know. They didnt. Some people i argued for there was not much argument. Ali was an obvious one. Thurgood marshall was one of my favorite because Thurgood Marshalls contribution to breaking the back of jim crow through the legal system and traveling dark roads and really going into allwhite court rooms and doing it under Death Threats was really important to have the legal dimension, protesting and doing sit ins, he was one of my favorites to be on the list. I argued for Jesse Jackson as a forerunner to barack obama and he first set the idea that it was possible. A lot of people didnt want to run for president and also is a great or greater and someone who inspired many generations to have hope and faith so there was a lot of debate, people getting knocked down and added on and it was very spirited. Host the coauthor of a book on Justice Clarence thomas. Was he considered for this the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world . Guest he was raised as a Supreme Court justice, he was someone who was raised. A lot of people were raised. We were mindful also of not trying to make these choices based on ideology or factors that this person was isolated, we look at achievement and what was done and with 44, you mention a lot of people. Tiger woods is not on here. Louis armstrong is another that was debated. Host Duke Ellington . Guest he isnt in there. The process we thought about, we dont want to have an overly weighted with civil rights or activist figures because you could have filled the entire book there. We were sensitive to what is missing. We added people, richard allenson in part because certainly religion is such host founder of the ame. Religion is important to black communities, churches are played such a role, we could have had more religious figures which at some point i think i may have raised it, we dont have enough religious figures. Military, a decorated general is in their. Host first African American general. Guest that is right. So that was a nod to the fact of our contributions to the military and fighting in defense of this country. Guest theres a connection between jesse owens and Benjamin O Davis who served or operated during the same time. Go became back to the us to a different the same old world. Guest the same old world and jesse owens and many of those other olympians from the 1936 olympics came back and were not treated or welcomed the way we are accustomed to olympic champions being welcomed. Guest jesse owens returned home to the oppression of jim crow, working basically meaningful jobs menial jobs like racing horses and pumping gas. Guest it comes as a sideshow. It was a tragic outcome for somebody who had been regarded as defeating hitler and really embarrassing hitler in germany. Guest who was Robert Abbott . A great newspaper editor, chicago defender was one of the most important publications in america for black americans and it really, during a period when chicago, there was migration, chicago, nationally being kind of a beacon for truth and leading the way so Robert Abbott deserved and of course the journalists. We will have some journalism representation. What was the importance of the defendant . What is the importance of the defendant . Black newspapers at the time were really africanamericans werent working at the white papers. This is where we got our news and like the amsterdam news and of course the afroamerican and other papers around the country were black papers, they were covering the civil rights movement, covering injustice, many of those reporters that were going into the deep south just like thurgood marshall, they had to figure out how to stay in places and file their stories and dangerous places and they were also had to do their work under threat. They were really important for black newspapers, as leaders in the civil rights movement. Host what was the toughest part about transitioning from the Washington Post and politics into sports and politics for you . Guest i was a sports fan. I followed sports closely as managing editor. I oversaw the news including the sports department. I have written a lot about sports, as a feature writer. I felt comfortable in the sports world, not too out of place. The biggest difficulty, transition, youre out of place like the Washington Post that is so news centered and going to a startup that was did not have a culture, we had to build everything from the ground floor. When you are starting something new, you are encountering all kinds of challenges that go along with it. And so it was a great transition. Host why is it called the undefeated . Guest based off of my angela quote that we may encounter many defeats but we will not be defeated. Sometimes you need to suffer defeat to know what you could become. From a sports standpoint at a race standpoint kind of came together as an ideal. Sports, our kids lose, we hug them and we let them know this is not the end of the world, there is another opportunity, the resilience of what black americans have done in this country, they are resilient and triumph over obstacles, reflected in that quote so the undefeated felt good. Host there are 6 athletes featured in the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world. Our athletes inherently role models . Guest whether they want to be or not they are for many people because they play in public, they are outdoing their work in public and they interact with fans and fans watch them and people pay money to see the game, kids look up to them because many kids grew up playing sports and wish they could become serena williams, look at golf lighting up tennis and she was inspired by serena williams. Naomi osaka was inspired by serena williams. You see that kind of pipeline. From out via gibson to serena williams. Athletes, you look up to them and want to become them and they are a role model. Host what about Colin Kaepernick . Was he considered for this book . Guest i think yes, there was discussion about kaepernick and certainly at a point in time he has become a symbol for activism for back black athletes now and sacrificed his career in order to make a point about Police Brutality and oppression and Racial Injustice so i think somebody who is kind of the modern day ali, the sacrifice at least it seems that way to many people he was definitely considered. Host there were two people in this book i had never heard of i am ashamed to say, one was John Michelle basket. Guest he was a kind of have onguard painter. And right now some of his paintings are, i think his paintings are up there at the highest resale value, he died young and he was somebody like some young geniuses, they die too young and you never know what they could become but even him, we put him in as a disruptor because there are a lot of other artists. I know of a couple people on our staff, i will call Jesse Washington out, he felt there should have been other notable painters who were more deserving. I think in every genre you have success, so much success that you are making choices for lots of different reasons. People would not expect a person to be on the list. Host so disruptors was important to be included . Guest disruption is good, courage, bravery where you are taking the chance, go into places where others feel others havent gone. All of those should be considered, certainly achievement and success was important. There were a lot of factors. We didnt have a scoresheet. It was a field and a debate and we made some selections. Host you when i had not heard of, doctor charles drew. Guest he was a pioneer in medicine. In nashville, he represents the importance of medical discovery, the sciences and our constitution and the way we thought about that was charles drew is somebody we could have had. A lot of other people, George Washington carver, many people that were in the realm of kind of scientific invention and discovery but he was a representation. Host who do you reads this . Guest i hope kids, parents read with their children and everybody, kids of all races and ethnicities, these are black americans but it is our history, American History and i hope the kids everywhere can learn something. Host beautiful illustrations. Guest robert john. He is an artist we contracted with. It was fantastic, so good. Host kevin merida is editor in chief of the undefeated and one of the authors on this book the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world. Guest thanks for having me. You are watching a special edition of booktv now airing during the week while members of congress are in the districts due to the coronavirus pandemic. Tonight the Supreme Court, first up in Court Associate Justice neil gorsuch reflect on his 30 year career and offers his thoughts on the judiciary and the United States constitution and Ruth Bader Ginsburg recounts her life and time on the high court. She spoke at the nineteenth annual National Book festival in washington dc and later legal analyst and Supreme Court biographer profiles john roberts. Enjoy booktv now and over the weekend on cspan2. The president s from Public Affairs available in paperback and ebook presents biographies of every president organized by their ranking, by noted historians from best to worst and features perspectives on the lives a nations chief executive leadership styles, visit our website, cspan. Org thepresident s for each president and historian featured and order your copy today wherever books and ebooks are sold. Sunday night on q and a house our sudanese videogame developer is bringing peace and conflict resolution through the refugee experience to a wider audience. My country is a country where 73 of the population, these are young people the mindset to think about war. So it was like how about if this is done. The same thing happening in the country and feel like how things are done with conflict resolution. [applause] [applause] so good evening, everyone and welcome to the New York Historical society