Vendors to compete who can advise the best programs for citizens of newms york and tech media andct communications and spent a couple of decades studying these issues and as the un mission and the state department but also which is so clear from this book. [applause] and this book to start by taking a minute and why we needed a new category. And then to talk about how we came upon the idea. And there were a number of terrorist attacks and then the largest terrorist attack which killed over 130 people. And a lot of these were to organize on social media. They got involved and to try to figure out if thats on the platform how we keep them from organizing it was a rough start in the beginning and those that were captured six months later diff despite the fact actively focus on posting on facebook the entire time there was not a lot google and youtube and amazon came together for a Global Internet forum of how to fight terrorism exclusively. This is something so not a lot of cooperation with government. And then to hit puerto rico and then those that did not show up and then to rebuild the electric grid with internet and telecommunications coverage and at this time i thought what is going on with the Tech Industry . They are not just making spreadsheets or calendars they are involved in areas that used to be the full responsibility of government with the promisee and counterterrorism and i thought there has to be a better way to talk about them than justtto tech they have a role to play in geopolitics. The problem is had already evolved from being just a bad guy. And then i just did some research. And then to define the nonstate actors as un and nato so then not consider terrorist so sometime around 2012 or 2013 to see al qaeda and then i say so the nonstate actor was taken but clearly the Tech Companies are not nationstates either but thats another way to talk about them so Internet Companies who were working outside like defense diplomacy i wrote the article in 2015 people who read it that this is a little bit of a stretch and i put on the shelf for two years. After Hurricane Maria i said i think theres something to this and then it turned into this book. Whats the difference for those who have philanthropic concerns or volunteer aid or any of those . Its a really good question i dont put twitter in this category that may be surprising in some ways but the reason is i look at how it expands outside those surfaces into the domains. We dont see huber getting involved in counterterrorism at the moment. Microsoft is deeply involved in diplomacy you dont think a cisco is having a stake. This is the differentiation so what about other Big International companies you have cocacola and mcdonalds but none of them opened the Counterterrorism Department facebook has a larger counterterrorism than the state department and it doesnt seem all that strange that they would so this is one of the reasons i thought it was worth paying attention to. So google amazon facebook and microsoft. And not just how expanding into governmental domain and real life and this is something and the Sister Companies to look at those operations at those partnerships of government there is a lot of endeavors with the products and services and to change the way to think about Public Infrastructure. And then to do highspeed rail in chicago. So now if we have private Sector Companies and with that Public Infrastructure to make it available for all this is one of the reasons why i talk in the book about teslas work in puerto rico this is when they needed them to step in when the federal government did not they are not under any obligation to stay to provide equally and fairly access. So one of the things and then a large enough contingents and then to be driven in some ways that technology should be used for good. And with project maven to apply ai to Recognition Technology if they found out inside google this was happening then a number of people resigned in protest a companywide letter circulated that said we do not believe google should be in the defense business and they backed out and let it expire. With these two build things that is one of the interesting features and to be in the bottom line with those successful businesses but you do hear about those employee protest and if it does align with the core belief beliefs. It is one of the challenges that we may hear them from the sidelines and just go protest but we dont have a role to directly influence that process that makes it a unique phenomenon. Host so i want to ask you about the governments relationship to netscape. So can you recount this episode in the book by the social Media Companies and how that went . So with the Tech Industry through 2018 to reach out to Law Enforcement and federal agencies and try to partner with them to figure out how to we meet the challenges we all face together and they have been a little slow to respond where the key player and others incited members from department of Homeland Security and offered information of their own strategies with the emerging Misinformation Campaign and in response they were met with violence so the next time they did not invite anyone from government at the table now in 2020 we see the shift a little bit to reach out to Tech Companies aggressively to work with them but the chief Security Officer at facebook did really well they may be hardworking but they wouldnt ask a local Police Department to defend in the army but that is what is happening in the data tech sector to have them with their own counterterrorism units and not finding the support that they need. After that episode with this cycle is an interesting parable about the risks of government to be stand off if they cant get its act together to participate then they will just do whatever they want to do. But at the same time we know dc and congress and the executive branch does not and cannot keep up with tach and we have lawmakers who make their careers in medicine and law but zero Grassroots Technology and during the hearings last year Lindsey Graham asked if facebook was the same as twitter or how facebook made money its clear he had not been on the platform at all. They either need better staffers but if you have thoughts how the government will be smarter about the government to oversee the agents. Thats a very good question. There are different ways to think about it. For those who do understand that technology. Not just an ancillary locale the power player domestically and geopolitically. And we are starting to see an influx of more Diverse People running for office so within a few years to see the nature of people to interest more globally. But the people who are currently in office it isnt a sign that they are impacting our daily lives. Is not news we have a 2014 election and we have foreign actors that was a few years ago weve not seen any congressional action. There is no real excuse other than a lack of appetite and a lack of understanding. Even if they dont grasp all the details of technology they certainly have access to resources they could learn or inform themselves better. Its hard to be passionate if you cannot grasp it. But yes. [laughter] so talk about the work those who are gassing up with counterterrorism with bigotry and prejudice groups. What do you think about the balance that exist from here and abroad that there is a certain imbalance with the First Amendment . And then compared to the eu with regulations. Its interesting so with those hate speech laws in france and to say we dont have anything like the First Amendment i was looking at him in a way. Wouldnt it be great if we are able to find a middle ground . And some sort of movement for those are at the extreme end of this. There is no mistaking hate speech for anything other than what it is its like yelling fire in a crowded theater. Is extremely egregious with that content if we cannot regulate them in some way at least have them be more aggressive in this as we have seen a little bit with facebook and google to label the content that is problematic and facebook has been doing this with information about the coronavirus to label it as being potentially suspect. Thats one way to get more can informed without stripping it away from the internet completely. So what is working or can work . It is still early days we need to study the impact. It is a start. It is better than nothing. A few years ago the ceo of google at the time eric schmidt talked about search that that should be something it took a heavier hand to identify problematic content. He said we dont censor anything but we can moderate that content. So putting their hands on the scales a little bit behind the scenes but it brings up the discussion we dont necessarily have visibility into these actions. So one of the thing that makes the companies interesting from a citizens perspective is transparency. We are not in a position to say these algorithms and we hope that they are doing a good job. I wonder the idea of Law Enforcement needs a way around those features during the investigation or the terrorist event. It is a difficult question in addition to my job with the city i recently had people talk about this exact issue because i thought lets see what the experts are up against in the sense of frustration with Law Enforcement they dont have the tools that they need and those activities. On the other hand a company from apples perspective one of the bestselling features is that it is secure in your information stays on the phone. So i can understand the Tech Companies perspective but it seems there has to be some sort of agreement with Law Enforcement to have the proper approvals in place to find some sort of solution to access content. Im thinking of San Bernardino in california where there is no question of those who have committed a terrorist act. There is nothing that Law Enforcement could do. There are enough smart people working on these issues that we have not yet identified. Or a new piece of legislation. What it suggest is that every turn over the last several years the Tech Companies did not see those legislators take up new regulation or any meaningful regulation so i feel more confident stepping forward. What i like about the book with pessimism and the role of tech i feel i am steeped in and then force us to confront alongside i want to read a quick section here how it so good and then in 2018 with the institute of the project with the facial Recognition Software thats where the intruders were located but then 2500 feet offshore were rescued and then within 70 seconds from a swimmer. The heart rate was elevated she went to kidney failure and when she got to the hospital excuse me for just a second while i reach the rest of my notes. [laughter] but at the same time you dont flinch from the bad stuff. So what is your disposition for they say they are fundamentally untrustworthy and irrevocably taken our power . First of all i would ask not to use a smart phone or google or publish their ideas on their platform. And fascist the reality you have to confront. There is a lot of problems with Tech Companies we are engaged with on a daily basis because they give us something and they have all become accustomed to to connect to social media and how many articles online and there is a lot that it does do for us for people with control over data they are still using these tools. To have a more productive conversation if we are frank with ourselves. Lets not throw all of that under control. And all the things the services do give us and why we were making that trade it was so great that there is a lot of complacency. Even i who work on a place have not spent any time adjusting the privacy dials. And its possible to fight back with those conveniences so what is lifelike if we stay away . You have all these offbrand services and phones look at the Washington Post you are already on microsoft outlook. Is a possible to opt out will being a member of society . I dont think so. I really dont and talk about the six Major Companies like apple and google and all of those, they own hundreds and hundreds and we know for instance that microsoft or no kia. So in modern society would be very difficult with a big Tech Companies. And not to be aware of that what we can do and to establish and to comply with the gdpr with europe and that Data Protection to make them for microsoft users. And to create that option and this is something with the microsoft president that there is an appetite to do something there is a lot of pessimism and to see Companies Like microsoft we should celebrate that. And you want to assess which of Tech Companies that large are doing the right thing and you conclude the book and that you have the systems in the us and the checks and balances. How did we advocate for ourselves and with the shareholders and there is not an organized movement right now that we can sign on to to use the collective well and actions to move away from one platform to another. But to be outraged on line to be mobilized . It is possible to hold people to account but with the country or larger and then to guarantee if they would notice that so without that these platforms are ghost towns they cant collect that data that is a part of lack of organizing principle if they are going to be the organizer. And looking at those movements online to grow organically and to occur naturally and then to get behind that framework with this i will share this story at enough people did that and it translated that people were taken out of positions of power and held to account with people in the workplace. And then to see Online Movement movements. You write the complete resignation that a lot of us do feel. So personally that you changed on your tech habits . There was definitely a time i should not use that social media site