Before, some far worse than we are living today, with the hindsight of history we can see them as Inflection Point in the transitional period between an old system that is broken down in a new one so largely information. Are we added Inflection Point. Absolutely right in the middle. I think to the best example of it in 2016 the republican primary, there was a real civil war and the republican primary that the establishments republicans and john bush and others did not get the nomination, did not get the support of the American People, who got it the revolutionary donald trump, the democrats are doing the same thing right now theyre having a civil war in their party and is it going to be the traditional democrat, is it going to be some outsider, is it going to be a socialist, i think that is indicative of the fact that socialism does not work, to govern the people, it really has not kept up with the country, i guess at the end of this book that i realize after a long period of thoughtfulness and into the wilderness and trying to figure it out is that america goes through the divisive. Roughly over 40 years, why, its because we are very dynamic, demographically, geographically, socially, economically, we are constantly reinventing ourselves, not just as individuals but as a nation and government by his very nature is the status quo institution. This is how we boys done things and this is how we will do things is same way again. Its people who get stuck in the status quo. Get some cave watching going on. [laughter] and based on Common Ground and civility. Explained to me what you mean and what you mean by populism. They are forced to define nationalism and populism and globalism. I believe for decades i was part of the republican policy establishment. I had job and those administrations and i came to reject a lot of the thinking that i had before. Globalism in my mind is the idea because it is a sophisticated economy and the world is flat, flat, National Boundaries are not as an point important and finance and the boundaries are less important with free flow of ideas finance and business and that is the globalist. So we really dont need to think so much about the National Rules and regulations to have global institutions and regulations. The second part is the elitism and a complicated society and to those that have graduate degrees and they all should have any kind of opinion on National Security. So those two together that experts matter but a lot of those think with this group of enlightened people that we would be a safer and happy place. Thats where i was ten or 15 years ago i am not there anymore. For one the elitist are not taking care of all the people and especially i as a patriotic redblooded american they believe the American People are not a self selected group of experts or bureaucrat or aristocrats, the American People who have a right to choose their leaders and also the American People and we could change their mind. So i think we have spent far too long and dealing with the world in the way that it should be the United States is the end of world war ii this is a dominant country and militarily and what they did we were very generous to our former allies and even former adversaries so we entered into security agreements bilateral security agreements to our disadvantage four of those resources of nato. We are very lopsided. That was at the expense of the American Embassy to have Economic Development and those nations. So that is how things were for 70 years. But that did not make sense anymore because the world had changed they had not only recovered economically but were surpassing them. We did the same thing with china around 2000 murray said to ourselves we will give china a helping hand like japan or korea to be our trading partners it didnt work out the same way so thats why i broke with nationalism and broke with globalism and went to elitism well before donald trump came along. I went around the country and did public speaking. I am the elitist. But as it went around the country i knew something was happening. I couldnt figure out what it was so i did my own in formal polling and i would say how many of you think the economy is not where it was you dont have the opportunity for your childrens generation . And then i said is america losing its place in the world that we are being kicked around by pipsqueak countries . That i would ask how many of you think the values of america that we think of selfreliance, independence and ingenuity how many of you think. And then how many of you think it is washingtons fault . Everybodys hand including the sound equipment. [laughter] so the people i was talking to womens groups, College Student students, form policy experts, business groups, they were not suffering but yet they knew something was very wrong. So that was an awakening and a convergence so the way the country had kept the peace and had governed itself for decades. And just with a committed populist, my version. But i would say and i want to point out nationalism is not that xenophobic and populism is that we dont have to do anything. Give everybody everything. Thats for somebody else to talk about but for me it is getting back to americas roots. But you are selfaware with that educational experience. So talk about your time in the white house and with the National Security advisor. And those like fiona hill. And the wall street journal. And the places like the white house dealing with a complex problem and those who are educated. And had written extensively what about the peoples government. You get the best of i. C. E. You can get i was responsible for hiring fiona hill with russia and europe at the Brookings Institution i have read her books and known her for years. I thought she would be an important addition. I knew she wouldnt agree with me but i thought before Trump Took Office that what he said on the campaign trail to improve relations with russia. Not a least bit naive they have been doing bad stuff for a long time to the United States to monkey around in our elections. And as a very good advisor to trump i hoped that fiona hill could get in to with trump to do negotiations lets have a back story. Lets drive a harder deal. Sadly thats not how it worked out because of the Russian Investigation but i thought she would be a very good and then respect her views. And thats not the way it worked out. And also what i thought about him with realworld experience in the Business World as well as a journalist world and he wanted to take a much tougher stand on china thats what trump wanted to do. Cspan lets talk about china even very clear in your book administrations have not recognized it is the challenge. I am interested in your thoughts of complete meeting with the economy that is state run and your thoughts how the president has to be tough with china in the way another president may not have been tough enough. Where do i start . [laughter] talk with the imbalance a capitalist country like america and a state run economy. And also tread on footing. So lets start where is china and where are they . So president xi points out he has essentially that give us all the power. You dont have any individual rights we promise you will have prosperity and peace. That would be the glue that held the country together. And that faded away. There is no real ideology. And then maybe ethnic pride and historical pride. So that is the deal of the chinese leadership. And prosperity has increased but when chinas leader advanced it wasnt like america or in the west with the young person at an old person on old candidate and a young candidate and medium. In china you advance with your generation. So you start out probably identified at ten years old as a smart person to be nurtured so the chinese advance with their age group. By the time they are president they have seen all the leaders they are now dealing with and their government bureaucracy and form policy and they have been working together for decades. You dont move your class or age group at your age cohort so what about today . Where were they in the formative years of their lives . They were in the middle of a cultural revolution. So that in china was in the sixties thats when they were in their late teens and a lot of the leadership now where the sons of the leaders of china when the cultural revolution happened which was chaotic and disruptive and storming universities and tearing down leaders and it was the wrong kind of populist revolution but they took those Senior Leaders and put them in jail. So president xis father was one of those people so as all the colleagues, a lot of them are in the top position and then had a good life now all of a sudden sent to the countryside along with their family to be punished and beaten so president xi and his group to them thats the worst thing that could happen is disruptive Society People going crazy, order breaking down, so what they want to do it all cost is to make sure china doesnt go there again. That drives the whole authoritarian system. That drives their position in the world with order at all cost. They dont believe like we do it is a good thing and individual freedom because you will not have that you will be as the government tells you. Thats what they say so everything goes along quite nicely United States tried to help china to modernize. Just laid korea and all the other countries. But it didnt happen because the chinese were coming from so far behind with probably 20 and 30 years. And they are very conscious of that. People were in starvation situations 20 years ago and now building cities. So the United States, a lot of the manufacturing jobs that they went to china and america we have unemployment or underemployment for the large section of the population. So we enabled their success. We dont resent it. I dont. We enabled it. But now times have changed. It is time to recalibrate that relationship. We dont need to treat china like a third world country to give them the advantages of trade and finance and market economies they have enjoyed as a third world developing country. Im not saying we should have an adversarial relationship or keep them down but just play fair. So with that historic achievement but its time to refigure that relationship. So what about yahweh one dash huawai and do you have concerns about chinas rise as the dominant power. We know you are in charge. We want a piece. But i think their rhetoric and their ambitions have changed. So what i would point to is the refusal to renegotiate a lot of these. They beg borrow steel anyway that you can for western technology. But three things geographically and militarily that im nervous about is the South China Sea. The waterway through which all world trade flows europe to africa to the middle east through the South China Sea honestly and korea and they very aggressively moved to say that internal they said we have some islands and build them out for of the fishing fleet. No. They militarize them and now moving toward claiming that is the worlds greatest see lane of commerce they can say who does what and when. So the silk road is the chinese attempt to take the countries in the 15th and 16th century when the trade came from the middle east the chinese have attempted to recreate the silk road with china in charge is called one belt one road so they will bill the physical highway but also the virtual highway by going through all these countries and building things to Chinese Standards and they will be in charge. Not unlike the roman empire and the final thing is the maritime ambitions looking at pakistan and they said we will build ports and just like the South China Sea they said we want to trade these chinese goods but in fact some of those are now militarized so they are building maritime routes and a land route and trying to solve the worlds Global Commerce so now in addition to that the chinese leaders have said they want to dominate the technology of the future. Making low value tennis shoes to go up through technology. And so artificial intelligenc intelligence, bioengineering and say we want to be leaders and do it however we have to. We will steal and with the intellectual property. And a much more aggressive attitude. And then said we will dominate the world and dominate technology of the world and the commerce of the world. And then to rewrite the rules. And with the rest of the world not to say that this would be overly aggressive start. And the states around the pacific rim with the trade agreements on the lower tariffs to constrain chinas ability and certainly the United States. Youre also talking about the tpp. That would be a great thing to revisit second term. But trump understood if you rebuild the American Economy you have a lot of leverage. As you get over middle east oil and to become Energy Independent you have a lot of leverage. Also and they need to sell it to us. And to fix the American Economy and to use trade wars and the one with britain soon and then to have much more leverage and that my advice to him with the phase i agreement. And japan and south korea and now we have a consortium to go to china and then have the same complaints with the block led by the United States we dont want to keep you down but saw that experiment the economy with the economy that think was visited when you speak about china. But with iraq and afghanistan so how do we extricate ourselves and that there would be a vacuum with isis and al qaeda. And focus energy and resources. I think Foreign Affairs is like childrearing. And to me the big priority now is china. And then to lose track of the real problem. And he was really great at understanding it is the soviet union and the United States is the endgame and Nuclear Weapons. So lets not get sidetracked with the other issue that prevents you from dealing with the major issues. What trump has allowed the Energy Industry in the United States weve had Energy Importers to exporters within a short period of time as a major source of energy so once we got off of their energy with the psychodrama they have been fighting each other with tribal warfare we dont need their oil in fact we could replace their oil so to me is one of the important things all the other stuff you have mentioned that is important and if it distracts you from doing the important thing dealing with asia and china and the five g Global Technologies then you should have a very different approach. Yes like going into afghanistan but we did that after three months we should not have stayed around to rebuild afghanistan and surely not. That you talk in the book the idea trying to nation build what that looks like in 20 years and what is missing is Civil Society you cant just make a democracy you have to be a democracy with those educational institutions and talk about invasions and im interested in your views so i have appreciated your candor from the president s tweeting for example and your thoughts on the Political Institutions as the backbone of democracy. But then on the other hand the judiciary for example we saw a president who passed judges some way or another thinking about the judges that are in the trials and those that are associated with him. Talk to me about the importance. What part of the First Amendment is freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Trump understands like reagan that they will be against him. [laughter] i would absolutely argue that. Some president s do get that treatment. But then says he cannot be involved with the newspaperman. [laughter] so the same way reagan did i think all great revolutionary president s did you have to find a way to get directly to the American People and with that press establishment reagan did it by going around the country speaking to cities and towns all over the country and fdr had fireside chats talking on the radio directly so how does trump do it . He understands the Washington Press corps doesnt like him he understands they hate him and will lie. But he found a way to reach directly to the American People by tweeting. I dont like his tweets but on the other hand it has been very effective to get directly to the American People so for that that is an institution that he and reagan and fdr and lincoln going all the way back has observe the free speech of the american leaders to talk directly to the people. So how is that balanced . For example we wouldnt have more to gain with the wall street journal and Washington Post reported so where is the balance getting in the way of a president and actually asking the question for the American People . So what will happen im trying to figure out, we talked about this at the beginning i dont know its like its just hard. Youll never have a great experience with it. [laughter] so what happens . You have to realize eventually they become irrelevant so to have a little believer and those voices that are trying to strangle or refuse to listen because nobody will listen to them anymore sorry worried about the balance . Yes itll get a little out of whack but at the end of the day that will suit them. You cite Nuclear Proliferation and those nuclear issues. [laughter] here are professional women in midtown manhattan anyone to talk about Nuclear Weapons. How cool is that quick. What struck me about your idea of policy the average american doesnt get access to there is the crisis of the Nuclear Strategy they dont feel they have agency over that issue doesnt come up in politics so setting that aside straight out of the gate should the president start one sign the new start treaty . The bilateral treaty with russia that is basically nonproliferation agreement putin has said he will with military conditions why . Go from the beginning i worked in the Nixon Administration going up against the soviet union and it worked for reagan with those start talks with a whole class of Nuclear Weapons. Where are we now at the beginning of the administration as deputy National Security advisor was to take a review of American Foreign policy advisory so where are we now . So one of the things that was pretty clear that the russians had been cheating for years. With the intermediate weapons is also clear the chinese were developing them in part of the deal so my advice was is do it we need to get to. But the russians cheat but they were never called on it but what i did learn with reagan is you have to have chips to play in the game and you have got to have leverage. Where is the leverage if you dont have that . So reagan to go to the soviet union and say lets cancel this. And we had a lot of leverage economic and technology and a Defense Missile system they do they couldnt build and thought we might be able to. It doesnt mean you dont never have these but you have them and negotiate them from a position of strength. Moving on in the nuclear sphere, you explain this beautifully with the committal and promises from 1990. What are your views . Do we just have to live with the idea that north korea will have Nuclear Weapons . So what do you do differently . And then and then sanctions of economic problems. [laughter] so that trump has done the right thing and again to have a review of American Foreign policy and the Trump Administration in the situation room to call the deputies of all agencies of treasury and state, military. So what do we do . And then to have the same old policy. And so come back in a week and i want to hear all of your ideas. Think way outside the box. So i said on this hand think about accepting the north koreans as the state. And also think about regime change of what we might do militarily. And the covert things that we could do. So we probably havent done the reassessment in the last couple of years. So we spent the time in between re learning about korea with north and south korea its a decade before you were born. So that was a little bit of economic stuff and if you put them together to have that switch on or off and then you have a dial you turn up the dialogue pressure so you could affect. The other part is understanding north korea 75 percent comes as a gift from china. We have other things going on with china but they said had nice stuff and trump said they tried maybe they couldnt do it so all those experts he was getting advice from because with trump and kim jungun it was personal. He doesnt care he cares only about him and hes one his ego or maybe being a greater leader than his father or grandfather but i think trump found out carrot sticks and he plays to kims ego. And very carefully chosen i was gone from the administration by then singapore did in about three years time so the next meeting they had was in hanoi so we were mortal enemies to say we were at war with each other and had good relations with you. So those are carefully calibrated to show kim these are the possibilities. The other thing trump did most people thought it was corny but he did the trailer like a movie trailer. With a great leader. And the modern economy and for pyongyang to be a world leader. Anyway thats the right thing to do. With a different relationship with china going forward. To that broader point you have politics, you have trad trade, you have sovereignty and internationally. If you watch of the president does not what he says so how is that borne out for the country . And also around the border wall. What he does not what he says. So im trying to figure out that most president s have a lot of analysis. But some more than others. About what may jfk. But he will have his own library so to work closely with him it is all about winning. Hes from the real estate world and also on the tv world and creates a whole genre of reality television. So i think for him its all about winning and how you get there how you get the ratings are make the money when you sell the building but is just getting to where you can win. Trump is in negotiating positions. The things that you have to do to get to the point where you win. It is a tactic. So every time he proposes a negotiation with somebody like tariffs with the chinese, the media goes nuts the whole establishment goes nuts. That is absurd. But thats not where he expects to settle. So to a certain extent, he said a lot of strange things like kim jungun. And then he trash talk sam like my missile is better than your missile. But to trump that doesnt matter he doesnt care who he humiliates he doesnt worry. He doesnt worry about overruling himself he wants to win. So one example of interested in your thoughts was the southern border wall with the george w. Bush and with bipartisan support so now we are in a crazy place with the Trump Supporters fighting over almost the same thing and the way to talk about more security to talk about immigrants and immigration sometimes the rhetoric gets in the way of our policy and i will give you a quote when bush talks about the future he said in the announcement is still requires the tradition of the melting pot. Sometimes whether it gets in the way of the policy. You could start the immigration problem but nobody wants to give the other guy. They have a legitimate but they dont want to give him a win. But nancy pelosi doesnt want to give donald trump a win right now. And there is a little bit of pettiness on both sides. But the difference now is that we really are in a period its way more about trump and he wants you to think its about him and so did the democrats but its really not it is the establishment status quo to get the job done. And the American People for Bernie Sanders supporters said will go a different direction. But there is no middle ground. That they will fritter away into the background. Despite the ball itself, its a symbol is just get control of your borders. Pipe down thats the Biggest Issue on the planet right now that people care about is coronavirus. Countries are stealing the border with china. Airlines are refusing to fly flights into china. If we didnt have a border that would be a hard thing to do so borders are important. So i would like to talk about russia and as you see with 2016 and it is a nuclear state. And the economy not only because of the independence of energy but the approach with putin to make sure we have predominance and dont allow russia to get into debates with china. Thats of one of the great disappointments could we have found a way to work with russia and i prefer we have an agreement. But politically that will not happen. But i do think it will be donald trump that any kind of our relationship with russia is possible. So we are in a good position, a strong position to do with russia. So in the 1970s oil is going up and rush is a big supporter of oil and then with all those windfall profits. But definitely with a big military and that reagan came in and was able because of the price of oil going down with a demand economy they could drive them into bankruptcy and collapse. And this is also somebody that putin in his middle sixties coming onto the world stage as a kgb agent, russia and the soviet union was a great nation and a superpower and he to look forward to a great future. But then everything collapse by the late eighties and early nineties. And putins career along with it. And he wrote a dissertation and russian how to make America Great again to use Natural Resources and consolidate them under the state and then the price of oil would go up and they would be rich again thats exactly the plan he has followed and russia did become rich again when oil prices started to go up at 200 a barrel and it collapsed after that but instead of taking the windfall profit they would have had and reinvesting them into the economy he social services, the military and now the price of oil is down, i dont think it ever goes up then he broke and said this will be a very good time to force a deal with the russians. Let them have their dignity with the collapse of the soviet union but we are in a strong position now because of domestic politics and i put a lot of that right into the lap of the Obama Administration and the Intelligence Community which to me is one of the greatest geopolitical and to get it in again like in the fifties and the sixties with the military technology and then to hold the allies close with that value Space Alliance is add another case that the alliances are strong and they are maintained . But everybody do your fair share. So they are doing that at our expense or for their own economy i think that is a Fair Alliance at all. I dont thank you just do away with them. I would like to talk about you. [laughter] that has been so interesting to talk about these ideas. That you thought with a parttime job with kissinger during the Nixon Administration. The last job you had at the white house with the National Security advisor so tell me about the arc of your life and what you learn along the way because you start with a white house and end with the white house. But i am interested how did you end up back there . I am in my middle sixties and it was the first opportunity for women to have equal access to education and eventually equal access professionally i am from a working for class family and went to college on scholarships i was 18 years old i was a taxi driver on dash i got a job under kissinger so the most you could aspire to in the white house is to be the aid or the assistant or maybe the Administrative Assistant to a man. It was just the way. So for me i did not have a grand plan of a Glass Ceiling breaker or a pioneer but it turned out that way. I it was able to take advantage of those opportunities when they came along but to end my career so my first job as a secretary to end it is probably one of the most senior people in america government and a job of what they would never even aspire to but to the point my daughters think it is routine and it is expected. Its a different country it is open for women so now my older daughter is getting ready to have her first child about the time this heirs. [laughter] but the fact there are so many opportunities and to a certain extent i love working with women of all ages but the big problem now to have it all with an education and the marriage and kids. So i live my life in chapter chapters. Great education, then a career and then i retired. We won the cold war. So i retired to being a housewife and mother and did that well over a decade and some of the most rewarding times of my life. But then i got back into the swing of things after septembe september 11th and had a pretty good background actually my older daughter said i think the country is under attack need to stop having lunch with your girlfriends and go do what you are good at. So five children and grandchildren and also had a great career. So what you write about is how do we get back to that place there is opportunity for all and to say this is our working parent and then miraculously to do that and then to talk about that we are so worried about losing ground that it has shown with a very interesting nonlinear past. But for anybody man or woman to have a lot of opportunities but for those to get in the way and to have that professional success i have five terrific kids they are married and i have grandchildren every single one of them is different. I havent had an opportunity so thats important. I have a quotation from you. The future is in all of our hands not to legislate a more permanent government class or power or the ideologue or a self appointed for the 20th century the average common regular citizens we the people to bring about the resolution what can we the people do that we can live life fulfillment . How do we make a difference . And that ten years ago 40 percent of the American People but what trump has done at these rallies is he has taken a group of people who felt disenfranchised who were not rich or powerful or politically active or influential so i think whatever you say about the politics and the fact that more americans now are in that political process. As long as we are all in their to gather. So the single most important thing anyone can do is to show up at the rallies and shop at the polls. You govern for yourself. And your point is well taken. But that is right it is a responsibility. And then say you bet it is. To choose leaders did to sacrifice that right and have that responsibility. I will end with another question. And with that statement of the themes those are a fictional nation because it makes the personal possible. They you have it reinvented yourself many times over and serve your country. Is somebody who and many ways as opposed to i found you engaging and also the Common Ground. Revolution. It has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. We are not really talking here about a stimulus package and the fiscal packages to they can survive this. On very low income and businesses losing revenue can pay their bills or the rent and utilities. It turns out there is a thing that happens the process where you start to solve a perfect problem that has not been solved before because most of what we do that the tools and training and comfort are solutions that exist. We have never been able to develop a diagnostic test and that kind of sequencing to watch this viral genome you take as it spreads around the world
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