Kevin kevin merida why is there a book called the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world . For the undefeated, our platform which focuses on race, sports and culture we have done a digital project in 2017 that was kind of in code to the first africanamerican president , and the title the fierce 44 so we had this idea lets do kind of an homage to in arguably the greatest achievement and who else should be on that list . We did a list, it was Interactive Digital projects and it was well received, highly debated and then Houghton Mifflin harcourt publishers said could you turn this into a childrens book. Because there are not a lot of africanamerican biographies in a genre that was popular, children biography collections and they loved, robert ball have these beautiful illustrations so we edited additional project and turned it into a book. What is the format of this book . It is basically a short biography coupled with illustrations and it gives you enough the kids can learn about these tremendous africanamerican achievers and just absorb some of the inspiration and greatness black americans have contributed. You are editor in chief of the undefeated, thats part of espn. When did it come about and why . We launched in may of 2016. It was the idea of a former president , john skipper, and the idea that here we have a digital project that conserve a really loyal over indexing black audience on digital and meanwhile help espn with bringing our own aesthetic and sensibility to espn where race, sports, and culture intersect. It is very much about culture and that came about, i was at the Washington Post where you and i know each other and after a lot of dbi was presented with this opportunity and i decided to go ahead and give a shot. You were managing editor of the Washington Post, how much debate happened in your family . A lot of debate particularly my wife and sometimes you disrupt your own career and wants to do Something Different, take a little bit of a leap off a cliff and try Something Different so i decided to do that and it has been fantastic. To be clear, why 44 biographical sketches . It was a play off of the 40 fourth president. He was exiting the white house and we said we will do 44. It was originally called the undefeated 44. These were our selections, staff selections and there was a lot of fierce debate, you can imagine because there are many more than 44 great africanamericans. We dont say this is the greatest black achievers ever, we dont try to put that, this is the 44 we looked at that fit the sensibility of the first africanamerican president. They did something pioneering, something disrupting, in some cases noisy geniuses, quiet innovators but they did something extraordinary in their own space and it was not down drag out debate among our staff and we kind of did it kind of democratically. To get on the list you had to convince the group and if you were going to add someone, where do we take off and it was a lot of back and forth and a lot of people were left off but a lot of great people are on this. Daymac what do you want Young Readers to know about barack obama besides being the first black president . I was at the nba allstar weekend in chicago and happen to be at an event that michael will bomb, my colleague at espn was hosting and had barack obama was there with chris paul and kevin love. It was a discussion about what athletes do and how they use their influence on issues and it was a reminder of how what someone like obama does to elevate the discussion and he was interacting with the athletes and you could just watch the athletes in the sense of thinking more deeply about how they could influence and use their own power, it was a fascinating discussion. It is hard to become president , we are watching that now. It is really difficult and long journey, to be the first africanamerican to do that is the signature achievement many people thought they would never see in their lifetimes and so that always stands at the top of the mountain. The majority of the profiles are not athletes. We have 6 athletes and so even those, they are people who were left out, the athletes we do have in the list, Serena Williams, simone byers, the greatest interest ever, i think she is the greatest gymnast ever just record wise. Michael jordan who not only was the first, the first black athlete outside oj who really kind of set a model for how athletes could do in business and represent big corporate brands and he had a style and a kind of swagger in addition to his highflying ability. There are a lot of reasons various people got picked and we could say there are a lot of great athletes, hank aaron is not on the list and could have easily been on that list. The athletes we do have our amazing. Who is not in the book that you personally wanted in the book . I dont know. Are you choices get picked. No. They didnt. Some people i argued for, i dont think there was much argument but some people were obvious. Ali was an obvious one. Thurgood marshall was one of my favorites because i think sometimes theyre good marshalls contribution to breaking the back of jim crow as a legal system, traveling dark roads and really going into always court rooms and really doing it under death threats, it was really important to have the legal dimension, while everybody else was in the streets protesting and doing sit ins, he was one of my favorites to be on that list. I argued for Jesse Jackson as a forerunner to barack obama and he first set the idea that it was possible. A lot of people didnt want to run for president and also as a great or raider who has inspired many generations to have hope and faith. There was a lot of debate, people getting knocked down and added on and it was very spirited. You are the coauthor of the book and Justice Clarence thomas. Was he considered for this . He was someone who was raised, a lot of people were raised, we were mindful of not trying to make these choices based on ideology, based on factors that this person was isolated, we try to look at achievement and what was done and you are missing a lot of people, tiger woods is not on here. Louis armstrong was another that was debated. But Duke Ellington is in there. Part of it, the process was we thought about we dont want to have it overly weighted with civil rights or activists. You could have filled the entire book there. We were sensitive to what is missing. We added Richard Allen in their, in part because certainly religion is such an important thing. Founder of the ame church and religion is so important to black communities and still is, churches have played such a role. We could have had more religious figures. I may have raised it, we dont have enough religious figures. Military, Benjamin Davis, decorated general is in their. First africanamerican general. That was a nod to the fact a contributions to the military and fighting and defending this country. There is a connection between jesse owens and Benjamin Davis who both served or operated during the same time but then came back to the us to the same old world. And many of those other olympians from the 1930s and were not welcomed in the way that we are accustomed to olympic champions being welcomed. Jesse owens you write returned home to the oppression of jim crow, working at menial jobs like racing horses and pumping gas. It is a sideshow and that was a tragic outcome for somebody who had essentially was regarded as defeating hitler and really embarrassing hitler in germany. I wanted to ask who was Robert Abbott . He was a great newspaper editor, the chicago defender was one of the most important publications in america for black america at the time and during a period when chicago, there was a migration, chicago and nationally being a beacon for truth and leading the way so Robert Abbott definitely deserved we have some journalism representation. What was the importance of the what is the importance . I think black newspapers at the time they werent working this is where we got our news and there was like the answer to that news and other papers around the country were black papers, they were out covering the civil rights movement, many covering in justice and many of those reporters that were going and down in the deep south, just like a good marshall, they had to figure out how to stay in places and file their stories, dangerous places so they were also under threat so they were really important defenders standing above all as leaders in the civil rights movement. What was the toughest part about transitioning from the Washington Post and politics into sports and politics for you . Guest i was a sports fan, i follow sports closely as managing editor. I oversaw the news, it included the sports department. Ive written a lot about sports, as a feature writer so i felt comfortable in the sports world, didnt feel too out of place there. The biggest difficulty, transition, is you are at a place like the Washington Post that is so news centered and going to a startup essentially that did not have a culture, did not have, we had to build everything from the ground floor so when you are starting something new your encountering all kinds of challenges that go along with it. But it was a great transition. Host why is it called the undefeated . Guest based on a meyer angelo quote, we encounter many defeats but we will not be defeated. You need to suffer defeat to know what you can become. For a sports standpoint in a race standpoint, really kind of coming together as an ideal, sports, our kids lose, we hug them, they will lose games, its not the end of the world, there will be another opportunity. The resilience of what black americans have done in this country, they are resilient, their triumph over obstacles was request elected in that quote. Host there are 6 athletes featured in the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world. Our athletes inherently role models . Guest whether they want to be or not they are for many people because they play in public, they are doing their work in public and they interact with fans, fans watch them, people pay money to see the game so kids look up to them. Many kids grow up playing sports and wish they could become Serena Williams, look at coco golf . She is lighting up tennis and she was inspired by Serena Williams. Naomi osaka was inspired by Serena Williams. You see that kind of pipeline from Althea Gibson to Serena Williams so athletes, you look to them and want to become them and so they are role models. What about Colin Kaepernick . Was he considered for this book . Yes, there was discussion about that. Certainly at a point in time he has become a symbol for activism, for black athletes, sacrificed his career in order to make a point about Police Brutality and oppression and Racial Injustice so i think somebody who is kind of a modern day ali, to sacrifice something, at least it seems that way to many people. He was definitely considered. Host there were two people in this book i had never heard of im ashamed to say. One was John Michelle basket. And icing his last name correctly . Yes. He was a really kind of like an effort guard painter. He really was, and right now some of his paintings are, i think his paintings are up there at the highest resale value. He died young and he was somebody that like some young geniuses they die too young and never know what they could have become but even him he was we put him in as a disruptor because there are other artists. I know a couple people on our staff, i will call Jesse Washington out, he thought there should have been other notable painters that were more deserving of being the artist. Elizabeth kaplan. In every genre you have success, so much success that you are making choices for a lot of different reasons. I like the fact that we have some zags that people did not expect a person to be on the list. Disruptors was important to be included . I think disruption is good, courage, bravery where you are taking the chance, going places where others feel others havent gone. All of those should be considered. Certainly achievement and success was important. There were a lot of factors. We didnt have a scoresheet. It was really just a feel and the debate and we made some selections. The other one i had not heard of, doctor charles drew. A pioneer in medicine. In nashville he represents the importance of medical discovery and the sciences and our contribution there and the way we thought about that was charles drew is somebody we could have had, a lot of other people, George Washington carver, many people in the realm of scientific invention and discovery but he was a representation. Who do you hope reads this . Kids, i hope parents rita with their children and everybody, kids of all races and ethnicities, these are black americans who shaped the world but it is our history, American History and i hope kids everywhere can learn something. Host beautiful illustrations, who did them . Robert ball, an artist we contracted with, his illustrations are fantastic, real good. The editorinchief of the undefeated, also one of the authors on this book, the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world. Heres some programs to watch out for today and tomorrow. On after words, netflix director of inclusion Michelle King examines what she calls the invisible barriers that prevent women from succeeding in the workplace. Booktv looks into our archives to bring you author interviews about pandemics. Theres an interview with kayleigh mcenany, and the library of congress hosts a virtual author talk with Professor John berry about his book on the 1918 influenza outbreak. This is the first of many virtual author programs that youll see on booktv. Check your Program Guide or visit booktv. Org for more information of. We kick off the weekend with David Michaels on the use of what he calls science for hire in the creation of public policy. [applause] so good evening, everyone. Good evening. Hi. And on behalf of the union of concerned scientists, i want to welcome you all here tonight. We are totally thrilled to cosponsor this event and this book, and the conversation because the conversation youre about to hear touches on the very essence of the work that we do at ucs, the union of concerned scientists. Basically, the role of science in our democracy