Transcripts For CSPAN2 Mark Kenyon That Wild Country 20240713

My wyoming, utah and nevada north dakota arizona and elsewhere. And with no further ado, mark kenyon. [applause]. Mark acute samantha. Thank you all for being here. It is terrific. I am thrilled to be with yall about my first book i thought to myself it would be appropriate to chat here with or tell you about a funny story. I thought it was funny. This was my book first tour and i got to thinking about my first public trip. My first public land adventure. In the story quickly came to mind. With this myself, this is perfect because it is funny and is subject textual, its a winner. So before getting here i decided maybe i should passes through my common sense filter. I think it was a decent wage is described that. That would be my wife. So last night i sit down bed and i say thankfully, they want to start with the story and very funny one what you think. So i walked her through it. So the further and further get to the story, the experience i had out in wyoming a number of years ago, you could see her face start to contort, more and more into this, i dont know if its concern are discussed. But eventually a good time with the story and you can tell street of that she was appalled and could not believe i was going to open tonights gathering with the story. It was something about the combination of grizzly bears in human urine that to her ability did not seem appropriate. So i will say that story for after hours. [laughter]. But i do appreciate and i do, will its great to see this many people come out to talk about public land. In wild places. Wild things. So what i wanted to do this kind of open things with a little bit of a background as to who i am, my story, and how i got to this point and house looking to be. And then want to read a short passage from the book and finally what i would like for the most time to be spent on this just an open dialogue, a q a about public lands and about the book worried about anything that really would gather interest in talking about it. I spent a lot of time sitting in an office by myself and talking to a microphone. And very rarely to get people right in front of me to talk back. So selfishly, i want to take advantage of that pretty soul that said, this is where i am from. So thank you all, my hometown crowd for being here. I was raised in an outdoor family, the family. We did a lot of the same things that probably some he did. We fished and hunted and hiked and kept. We did not ever do anything particularly fancy. You are not the type of you on vacation, we were not going to disneyland. Ive never been there. We never went to mexico or florida and we did not do those types of vacations. We took a vacation, its going to be camping or saying family or more likely camping with family. Something along those lines those kind of the way i looked at. I did not take any fancy trip. I think the Fanciest Hotel waivers data does i was about eight years old and only remember fragments of this trip but we were in washington state. Camping alongside the shore, somewhere around the National Park. Cannot remember if we were in the park just outside of it. But we are in that general room is a beautiful campground right on the edge of the ocean or bay. And remember there was dolphins and porpoises just off of the shore. Absolutely beautiful place. But storm came through. A vicious storm came going through so much that my dad my uncle trend of enough attention, this big world canvas tent. The walls were getting knocked over by the wind in the polls were collapsing and the tent was completely filled with water and eventually reluctantly, they decided realized we were not going to be able to camp on this one. So we packed up all of our stuff and everyone got into the man and we drove off to the nearest town, and the only hotel with any vacancies and proceeded to back my dad, my mom, myself, my sister, my aunt and uncle and various cousins into one, really admittedly very fancy hotel room. But what that was the high point of her luxury vacation. But thats the way we liked it. We like to be outside reading in a cabin up north we frequently travel to great and is much insight enjoyed the things we did outside, i think they were relatively nestorian. We did a lot of local things which but i had these aspirations, these dreams of getting out there and doing something a little bit more. A Group Reading books about people exploring across the western states of america are traveling through alaska climbing to Mount Everest and i harbored hopes that someday doing Something Like that. But growing up, Junior High High School mostly those types of places and experiences that lived in case of somebody elses book. That was on the screen. They just dont feel like i had the skill set for the training to god and do Something Like that. So college, i took the class my senior year in college called wilderness preparedness onetoone and it was just as cool that sounds negative and and is terrific and a great professor and he was like a bear but in real life, was a better beard and less annoying. He was a field biologist who had traveled all across the world stunning big animals and wild places and answer. Cut to the amazon and studied wolves and grizzlies and alaska and montana as of this was the first time i was face to face with somebody would been to these places and than these things. So i was inspired by the time we get done with the class, i filled armed with the tools that i needed to do these things. I can read a topographic map. He taught us out to back seven days with the gear for a sevenday adventure. It had high can grizzly bear country. Simple things with things i was not learning anywhere else. I graduated and i had that information in my back pocket and i thought it was time to go use it. So in 21 years old or so, i finally got the courage and commencement girlfriend should head west. I had a career as mentioned, starting out in california and so we took three weeks include trip to crosscountry womens Rocky Mountain National Park in colorado, yellowstone in National Parks in wyoming. If any of you have been to these places, you know what im talking about special in that first time see Something Like that. It is life changing and paradigm shifting and you see what is available out there to you. For anybody who appreciate the outdoors, open space, client encounters with animals. The appreciate any of those things, when to start heading out into these bigger wilder places, you see that scale in the depths of that pretty and hits you right in the field. In the happened to me. We backpacked over 12000foot path, we biked in the oaks at all of those things that until a point, had just been pictures in my head. Another were there. I knew right there in the in there, now my wife, she probably just thought or saw it in my eyes as well, we were not going to be the same after this. This will be something that would have to be a part of our lives on their own out. I started to try to do that so we return and continue to work in california but from that point forward, every vacation, a trip that we took was going to be, im following in the footsteps of my family, we didnt go to mexico or disneyland or any fancy resource pretty we were in the back of my pickup truck and camping intense and montana or idaho remaining tennessee, trying to see as many big wild places with the. Im humbly proportionate that i was able to swindle some kind of deal in which i was able to make a fulltime living in the outdoors eventually as noted label to start writing about the outdoors making about the outdoors not allow this to continue to spend more time outside. And eventually with this spinning sometimes weeks and weeks and weeks, and if youre buying an old camera and renovating that, sometimes months and months into the public land in utah or Idaho Commission do and through those experiences, doing all of the mentioned things of the duper to hunt and fish and camp and hike and backpack, i realized two things. I realized one, what an unbelievable inheritance we have. 640 million acres of land spread across the United States that are open to each and every one of us. And we can do any one of those things the mentioned plus dozens of others and wildlife watching, diving, kayaking, whatever your flavor is. Is there for us. That is not the common thing across the globe. It is very easy to take for granted and i take a preventive most of my life. When a cabin up north right next to a large lot of public land. Never once wondered how to get better what he meant. It was just like well that is the public. It is yours. Do not realize that was not there by default direction, did not fall from the sky. People had to fight for those places. They still have to fight those places. So this was something that im slowly forming more more about. And at the same time, i was also coming to find that these things were not guaranteed. For many pressures on these places outside forces. The Legal Business or whatever. Wanting to take advantage of the land for Different Reasons. One of note they can david, 2015, after community, this idea of the Land Transfer movement. Some of you probably heard about it if you follow what i do. This basic idea was relative or sing to me that it should been pretty french, business idea that government should not have land. Should instead, sailed off to the highest bidder or let them do with it as they will the state. And this seems Pretty Simple like not a very good here or not a very good idea to do this. Places that drive very an important economy around the recreation and places that harbor huge wildlife populations. Make sure that we have clean air, clean water, renewable resources. This is important stuff going to come to find is obviously people have different ideas about different goals and priorities. This all happening, im spending more time out here learning more about this idea the Land Movement is this thing that could possibly influence the future of these places. And then we get to 2016. In early in the month of january, a group of pretty radical ranchers storm into a National Wildlife refuge in oregon and taken over at gunpoint. You mightve seen this in the news. It became a thing for days and days and days and weeks and weeks. This group occupied the National Wildlife refuge used it on the stand a bully pulpit to spread their rhetoric which was government should i have this land we can sell them off and give them back to different people. The big thing here, a lot of concerning elements around here but the biggest thing is concerning to me is the fact that it was in a way normalizing the idea because one for me the topic discussed just in the backyard gatherings in certain parts of the country to nasa being discussed on cnn and fox news and all points in between because of the mainstream nature of the conversation now. Made a much more plausible this could be a real thing. It was so far as the president ial candidates were talking about this idea. Things are looking dicey. Things all of a sudden seem to be in a position well the seemingly impossible idea of losing this public land is all of a sudden not impossible. My wife and i at this point turned to which we often times do, had to smile land. So we packed up the truck and drove across the country to utah and arizona about ten days of sightseeing and camping and that kind of stuff. Which brings us to the passage of the book i would like to read to you. Several days into the trip, and a standoff, i should mention take over of the National Wildlife refuge. In appendix standoff. Ill probably read to you, hundreds of miles away from what we were buried all that is going on, where outside trying to see these places and i find myself increasingly contemplating what could happen if they are not around. After spending a few more days in candyland National Park, we moved our camp and driving down to arizona in the glen canyon recreational area. We were at the meth mouth of the grand canyon about 300 miles south of her first upgrade i remember in the early 19 hundreds, the cat grand canyon, eager line and source people parceled out to private landowners and businesses. But soon after president theodore resume its fellow hunter and conservationist, sets up to the plate to ensure that did not happen. See the giant chasm in 19 oh three, he said leave it as an is you cannot improve upon it. Man can only for it. But you can do is keep it for your children and your childrens children and for all who come after you, one of great sites which every american with a gun, see and refund past this stage when we lit would be pardoned for the use of the present generation. Whether it is the fourth, the water for the scenery. Wherever it is, handle it so that your childrens children will get the benefit of it. Five years later, with authority, resident permanently protected the grand canyon for future generations. Standing there before that seemingly impossible chasm, watch the shimmering animal rolled waters of the colorado go by. Imperceptibly carving the canyon deeper and deeper still. Ahead of me and behind me rose the near vertical walls of sandstone. Eleven oh was a domed ceiling of the most vivid infinite loop. And my wife by my side come i cannot help but wonder how different the canyon might be alert for roosevelt and his contemporaries in a different our own lives lived might be to predict how many parking lots, ice cream stands for smokestacks and no trespassing signs mightve been within review. A few days later we were home in michigan when the male standoff came to dramatic close. In january 26, 2016 on her way to a meeting outside of the refuge, mr. Buddy and several other leaders were pulled over and arrested by the Oregon State Police and fbi. If one member of the group fled. Leading police on a highspeed chase and eventually putting his car into a snowbank. When he disagreed place orders appeared to refer 11, he was shot and killed. Soon after, the occupiers ray lynch waged relinquish in a standoff came to an end. The monies into public land message had been broadcast loud and clear. And didnt take long for the mainstream of initiative pickup and continue to push the Land Transfer agenda forward. And of the rev 2016, and a Republicancontrolled Congress was elected in many complex and varied agenda many in the party singlemindedly intent ministering the public lands as we knew it. In the following month, a number of bills or proposed that would remove the roadblocks standing in the way of this land. Others were to eliminate public Law Enforcement when even came right out and call for the sale of threepoint 3m acres of land owned by the market people. As i watch these much quieter headlines, it seems everclear, this movement if it stopped, our greatest National Treasures would be stolen right out from under us. I decided i needed to do something. It cannot singlehandedly stop a politician from running a bill or convince the president to stand up. But i can at least try to test how we got here. Share what ive learned. Up to the point and been speaking to the hunting and fishing communities there might cast websites and social media. I knew there was room to do more. I had reservations. Was it shows the most, i didnt live fulltime among the western land that was highly do dependent. I was under 30 at the time. This was my first public land controversy i had actually lived through as an adult. What do i know. Whispering doubts swirled but i also wondered if these limitations is that is appeared. As a midwesterner, was aware firsthand how these issues and places sometimes play under the radar. And americans who do not live close to the west land. I have fresh eyes and an outside perspective might help bring the issue to a larger world relatable way. It is a young person, was awake bill of millennials the night of the baby boomers, who would be living longest with the ramifications of this decision currently being made. My outsider status apply to more than just by location. My critique of the public land of republicans platform prepare me for some strange things. Stage democrats were more than happy to attack the republican land agenda but on the other end of the spectrum, many felt like red americans were reluctant to criticize the administration and devoted into office over any agenda. I found myself squarely in the middle. As an independent, gun owning, pro hunting, nature loving, conservationist. Neither Political Party meet would fully represent me. And in the climate of increasing politics, felt unique stance but also light slightly disoriented. This is a public land is clear. I would was happy to stand sidebyside with anyone fighting on behalf of our public land. No matter what other differences might have. I note that i was not alone. I continued my research, residentially good about how our current land system and come to be and convinced that some unifying true truth might be found in the past. Mark twain supposedly once said, history does not repeat itself but it often rhymes they want to win the battles over public land, to better understand the ones that had become before us. The same went for this latest to deal with monday. It wouldnt be the last of its kind pretty them attentive. There would be new lessons to learn from the present struggle as well. I wanted to understand it all. When i am part of my studies, i decided to literally ground myself in the mission. Medics for the national forest, monuments, wildlife refuges and wilderness areas across the country. That hung in the balance. In ogden utah and huntington alaska. On fish and wyoming and backpacked in michigan. Id stick my feet into the dirt of the very places up for grabs. Nine would confront the reality of what the future might look like without them. Amanda scheduled tufted nice destinations for next year and a half and sign up unsuspecting travel companions about new gear, given to my wife to join me on some of these trips. In a plan to report back to my followers and headed out to the great big wide open. Over the next 18 months, i would come to discover greater detail, the way previous generations of hunters, hikers, campers and countless others stood up to protect these places. By the end of it all, when defining truth blazes and me, if they could do it then, we sure as can do it again. So this book, was a product of that journey that i embarked upon. And throughout all the time, in the months of traveling across the country through the days and days and weeks and months of sitting in my office and beating my head against the wall waiting for something to emerge on the commute computer screen, two things really kept me focused on pushing forward. Simply the reason, why had to do this. I think number one was the fact that a recognized huge knowledge gap. If i did not know about these things, if i did not realize that we have these were so much available to us as americans, if i do not understand the history of the public lands across the country, and i worked in the world, if i do not know it, and what about everybody else somebody lived in new york city or la. Chatting with friends and family in michigan and elsewhere. I saw that many of those same gaps as well. The problem was there are resources out there that speaks to the very important issue but almost two almost every single one, there are historical poems that your average person will probably never pick up and give a try. There had to be something that was acceptable in engaging and available to the average person. To the average person, was actually point to go to these places is actually going to stand up for these places. I wanted to bridge that gap. Also between people because one of the really neat things also frustrating things about public lands across the country is that without exception, they are multiply used. Used by all sorts of different people, for all sorts of Different Reasons and that is part of what makes it so great but also why there are so pretentious of all of these different stakeholders. A lot of different ideas of how they should be used and managed. That results in a lot of conflicts. I want to keep these places around, we cannot allow those conflicts within families the people that care about these places to get in the way of the larger issue. I recently read somewhere around 2 million acres of open space, disappeared across country every year. Think about the about the woodlot behind her house without all the swamp behind walmart weve got turtles and snakes and frogs. Those are places are despairing denied date by date. In our own example is like, all of us can think of that. The countrys growing, the population is willing we have seen it. Public land is one of the last vestige of hope and wilderness of wild open space. Places for wild life. Ten 20 30 40 50 years from now, we dont have this places, will we have. So i felt so strongly that if we are going to be able to keep our National Parks and forests and wilderness areas around, we have to do it as a collective group of republicans and democrats. The hunters and begins, urban dwellers and rural dwellers. Re Mike Sheppard and cabela shoppers. That is i think a simple truth. As far as i see it and i wanted to tell a story and lead by example showing that you can do that cant reach her hand across the aisle, you can speak to people who may be leak look different than you and if you believe in the same things he do but if you will focus on shared commonalities, our shared passion, we can do big and an important things. For all of this, physical projects, for all these various trips i went on, to writing this book. I come back again and again to the words of Theodore Roosevelt rated i already quoted it within my reading but he said something on the lines of the fact that every decision we make when it comes to wildlife or wild places, public land, we have to pass it through this filter of what it means for the next generation was a mean for our children and childrens children i used to think i understood that i understood it from an intellectual level but not emotional. Now i am a father of two yearold son and a here and just a few weeks. I dont ever want to see future but they wont have the same opportunities that i did read can imagine what that would look like and i would never want to. That has why im here and thats why he wrote this book i think that there is this tendency, sometimes look at these historical figures, Theodore Roosevelt, john and while these people were special, but them on a pedestal and we think of them as other in different than us somehow because they are the folks in books today. While they did some very special things, they are just people. And theyre not here anymore. But we are. We have to be the next roosevelt. We have to be the next although leopold. We have to be these people of our generation. Thats why i wrote this book. And so i am really excited to be here talking to you and seeing so many people come out to deceive or to celebrate public land. And if so, with that i would love to answer any questions you might have or would love to chat about wild animals, wild places, public land, whatever it is, i would love to chat about it. I would really appreciate everyone being here. And if anyone wants to be creative or brain of brave enough to stand up and ask a question. I would encourage you to do so i would say, before you ask the question, waiting for the microphone. There is. This question is coming from a mentor of mine, and might be offtopic but how was the squirrel hunting about 40. How was the squirrel hunting on the back 40. So part of what i do is i host a show for Media Company and we gotta show right now about 40 which is actually exploring the flipside of this going. Mark this project that i spent the last three years on has been about public land conservation. And this new project im working on is about private land conservation. So we decided to dive into that world by purchasing a small property and documenting both what you can do on a property like that to improve it for wildlife of all sorts, while also trying to balance that with recreational uses like hunting. So one of the challenges of balancing that kind of thing and doing ulcers of different activities. So we talked and joked about trying to have a great deer hunting property and the people who want to walk all over it shooting squirrels. So we have an episode of the squirrel hunt. Not did not go very well. We ended up not saying a single gray or fox squirrel on the property. So i got an email from steve the other day saying hey mark, what you think about planting the corn field just for next year. Can we do that. So did not do very well the farm but we did go to a piece of public land and had success there. So keep it public. [laughter]. Guest what is your favorite public land you went to. What was your favorite experience. Mark i will point to two. What is simply from an aesthetic personal alaska. It is really hard to just say anything about alaska with not admitting on a different scale and level. Just about anything we have the United States. It is really fortunate to be able to share a trip with some folks open to the central part of the state. God airdropped, hundreds of miles from the nearest town and spend the week out there watching a migration of caribou. Thousands of animals as a vista that unending, not a single light in sight. Not another person. Looking up in the morning or would open up the tent door and asked about simon first saw is not mountains, it was the right beautiful reboot sky it was grizzly bears right there. As in my tent. It and experience hard to compare to. So alaska rated in particular, i mean, you cant national preserve. Secondly i will point towards surrounding areas of national forest. Experiences there has to specialist my heart rate is one of the first places my girlfriend my wife now, when saw a three week road trip. And i cant talk to you about how eyeopening it was. Specifically driving towards the yukons and the last light is the storm was rolling in and sing this unimaginable skyline. Im just thinking this is real. This is in america this is something that watching a documentary and i cannot believe that i could look at this unbelievable setting. So we return their year after year ever since printed we have stayed there. One location that we gone back to its better summers there and i propose to my wife on top of a mountain overlooking the yukon spring and we will continue to take her kids there. So there is a lot of emotional connection to that place. Guest what advice would you give to College Student who wants to make a difference to or regarding public land. Mark is a great question and it is an important one i think. I dont have all of the answers. I think it is two things. Simple, can give you a magic Silver Bullet but number one, get informed. Just happen to this whole river of information because there are so many things going on today. Its very hard to keep track of even if it someone someone who does this for a living. Their off tools and resources that will help you understand what is happening out there. Theres a lot happening that is impacting wildlife, impacting public land in theory seriously, that the general public almost never hears about. So all we can do is pick and try to capture those most important issues and jump on them when we can. Number one, try to find ways to stay informed writing probably best ways to just a couple of organizations conservation organizations do a good job of filtering everything and put into them. So when it comes to public lands, especially if you hunt or fish do that kind of thing, anglers, i strongly advocate for because they are and they are doing a great job of taking in everything that is going on, filtering it and then letting us know when there is something that we need to jump on. That is not your thing, the Wilderness Society what everything is for the sierra club. Whatever. Pick a couple of those and try to get involved. The second thing, when the opportunities arise, take some kind of action. It does not need to be her awake. You dont need to storm the capital, you dont need to write a book, if you show us the money at thanksgiving, tell them about why this thing matters. If you send an email, send a tweet, if you do show up at the capitol building, every single one of those little things, does make a difference. Every Theodore Roosevelt, we needed millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people to just evoke willing to write that letter. Just to those two simple things and keep doing it. It helps make a difference in this way week of these leases. I wish i had something special. I wish i could tell you to buy this book you have have it all figured out. [laughter]. Just care. And show people that. I think we all do it, that would change the world. How about we go this way. Guest to questions quick. Im a big fan of the podcast. Information in the special guest you have on there. I am very impressed with them pretty good work. I have always wondered, i love the pregame of dan johnson, any time our great pair. Always wondered how did you hook up with dan johnson and to his life this year. Mark yes around this podcast, the question was about my cohost and out of the episodes, dan johnson the character and knew i wanted to Start Podcast back in 2013 pretty i just quit my job to grab google is going to go fulltime and be an outdoor writer. So i realize now that i had all of his free time to do something with it and podcasting like you natural. I am like this straightlaced normal vocation kind of guy. It which is okay but said that funny. It said that entertaining. And i needed a young from a young and i needed whats his name and sullivan to Johnny Carson maybe. Not that old but 70 email that to me before. Thank you. [laughter]. I knew i needed somebody like that and i had met a guy like that a few years before the film school actually. Learning to film outdoor films and stuff like that in hunting and he was a guy in a huge personality, huge guy, he only had nine fingers which made him stand out. Soda started having this thought process of developing a broadcast legacy scene but the really good if its too how to balance out money sometimes over intellectual Nature Preserve human holidays and a man, we have you ever done a podcast i think it would be good at this date is with him about. He said yes. The rest is history. As far as that dear you mentioned, i named him that everybody of mine was here tonight, jason. [laughter]. I have a lot. And sometimes using senior over and over again. Just because a different career, talk about these dear lots. Make sense to give them a name of some kind Pretty Simple little weird. So lost in hunting season, saw him and i believe he still around so 2020 will be an interesting hunting season. Thank you for that. How about the young guy in the back. Guest why do you hunt. Mark wow. [laughter]. Is a big one. [laughter]. What is funny is i dont think i prepared myself for that one tonight. It is a great great question and one that is not easily answered. If you want, and is good to take time to answer that for yourself. I had for a lot of reasons. My answer is if you were to take all of these Different Things third and a pot inserted all up and cook it for eight ten hours. And then take one of that concoction is that is my answer but it would involve these things. My first and foremost hunt for food as a way to provide my family with protein and subsidence and i can do it in a way that very connected to. I entering stan exactly what we get a red meat. So we havent had to buy it for years and years and years and years. I think that is not for everyone and that is fine. But it is the right way for me to get my food. I secondly hunt because it allows me to engage in the Natural World in a different kind of way. So when i was writing this book, i am out there hikings replaceable essay the tetons, when youre out there hiking around, confessing to a location in the forrester us in the mountains. You are an observer. When you go out and hunt, even if its in the exact same place, its a completely different experience. You go from an observer to a participant. Everything thinking. Maybe for the circle of life. When youre a hunter and he got there, you become part of the circle of life. Kind of like simba that is a really special thing to do. Every sound matters more. Every smell matters more. Everything around you is now influenced by you and influences you and what you will do next. That is an experience that is very powerful and exciting, compelling and keeps me coming again and again and again. I had to get food and to get that experience in i hunt to connect with the very heart of who we are right. Humans have been hunting for tens of thousands of years. This is what we were built to do physically and i think when you hunt, you tap into that. A press a button does something in the back of your mind, that is feels very right. And again, not everyone is going to want to do it. Not Everyone Needs to do it. Some people not even approve of the fact that we do it. But i see value in its. I think it breathes advocates. Often times people who dont hunt have a hard time to understand that. And you get your food and that kind of way, is really hard not to care about the animals and the places where they live. And ultimately that was one of the major things to do the things im trying to do. There are a few more ingredients in the pot and im not thinking of right now. But thats a start. Thanks for the question how about right there. White tailed deer thing i spend the most time pursuing, most big u. S. Animal across north america, a pricey a lot in your backyards or rounds, my favorite while till run, i think i could point to some big deer i shot her some story that was great, but i really enjoyed and shared with my followers is great for my career Something Like that. Something like that makes for great hunts. But i think a couple probably stand out to me that would follow without. I think one experience which is not really a hunts but sort of was was the first time i can remember i didnt have a gun, it was not even hunting season. But is somewhere in july or august and i was of my grandfather up in our small family property in northern michigan. I was probably five or six, somewhere in that ballpark. I cant remember a whole lot. I remember these little flashes. Its the earliest flash i can remer for my entire life of having it up close experience of wild animals of any kind which happen to be deer which has consumed a lot of my life ever since. My grandpa and i were set in a blind, its basically little shack he built with outdoor carpeting, stapled to cedar posts and some mashed and camouflage fabric, we sat there and he had a little video camera with a beard i wish i could find the footage and maybe somebody has it somewhere. I remember him filming it and me being this little kid with a group of seven or eight do come walking across from you to me. I have never seen anything like that so close. I must have remembered or been told a lot about dear and animals. The things are realized was special i remember the deer walking across in front of me, summer so everything is green around me, but the deer are almost orange red, i can still see it in their walking across i was just erecting with excited unlike gp g pgp deer and heal the whole time psyched marc you quiet you gotta be quiet. She got quiet. And so i just remember the pure joy i wasnt hunting really i was just being there in the wild and that pure joy is kept me coming back again and again. Again it comes back to that engagement with him is something that is special. That one stands out. Ill stick with that one. How about when the far back black cat. [laughter] smack im so nervous out here in front of everybody. Just like that gentleman set im sure a lot of you guys have listened to podcast the myself i want to say thank you im sure everybody else was a thank you for that too. Change my life really i started hunting late in life it helped me out it was awesome. Ive listened to every episode. My question for you is someone who inspires to go out west, hunts somewhere, what was that like for you . What was your First Experience out there doing hunting not just camping or adventuring, what was that like for you, kind of tell us what that was. Guest another one of those paradigm shifters bar went to a life of this than like oh well life can be like that. I loved hunting deer in michigan i still love it, something really special about it. Again, i would always encourage people to go outside of their comfort zone to see new places do new things. My First Western hunt was an elk hunt in idaho and caribou national forest. Its one of those things that again, kind of as i mentioned earlier id always dreamed of doing that. I was that someday im going to do it, some damn good to do what i want to do but i didnt really feel confident like theres a lot to it theres a lot to figure out. Need new gear, you need to survive in these different places, its a lot different than walking behind the house and sitting in a tree. So its interesting, this guy has kind of helped me with a lot of these things. I was reading something from steve run nella. It finally gave me the push like dang it i just have to go do it. It was a passage of one of his books about and elkind he was on. He just flipped a switch and i said forget that i dont know about this i dont know about that, just going to figure it out. I found a friend who had been out there before was overdoing it this year, lets make it happen. Checked all the boxes, built the two lists, exercise, got ready, quit my job and headed out. You dont need to quit your job. [laughter] but i quit my job for multiple reasons. Headed out there and again, come back to some of the same waves of describing it wish i something new to say when you go from deer hunting or hunting in michigan is a pretty intimate experience. Its small places comes close encounters, and thats great. But then theres something really great about big places wide open vistas, intense experiences super you are literally chasing animals on foot or running a mountain to try to find them and standing on top of a mountain and seeing miles and miles within any distance. And again, laying a hunting component on top of that youre not hiking. You are fully tasked into everything going on around you. That is really cool. I sometimes compare this, i look at the difference between deer hunting and elk hunting, when you are deer hunting, you are giving these opportunities to step away from everything. You can completely turn your mind off because youre not doing anything, youre sitting and waiting. So i sit and wait you have this really rare thing in life where you dont have to go anywhere else your hud to do anything else. I dont about you guys, but all day every day im go go of got this ive got that ive got somewhere to be, stressed worried all the things going on million things going on. But when youre deer hunting and youre just sitting, waiting, watching, you can clear your mind and then decompress, think about things. When you are out west and elk hunting, its the exact opposite. You cant turn your brain off because it is an active pursuit. So instead, your brain is turned up to 15 because your hunt depends upon what you do next, what step you take, youre gonna run up there you get a climb down there you going to do that you are fully engaged thats a lot of fun too. So i would recommend you to both, i recommend you go for. There is a lot of public land out there to do it on. I think having proper expectations is important. Going out there and not feeling like you have to have success. If you go out there looking at success as enjoying the experience and learning something, you will have a blast it will be amazing. Do that dont go out there feeling you have to fill a tag. Eventually you might and its amazing when you do. All of that work, effort, sweat that goes into it makes for what i often referred to as type to fun. It can be painful in the moment but it will live long in your memories. That stuff is worth changing engine chasing. Go for it. Its much more achievable than you think it is, just do it. Obviously that we are talking about shooting for much broader audience than something tightly to hot hitting right left cabelas as you talk about it, when you think about your approach to this book then, what is the role of personal narrative, storytelling and breaking through the ideological barriers in finding a way in and related to that did you find yourself telling the hunting related stories differently for this book then you would have if you were writing for a purely hunting, hunter audience . Guest absolutely i have approached this of not writing a hunting book for hunting audience. Of course my core, the things ive built to this point has been hunting focused i knew that contingent of readers would be there. I knew that would be good even if i didnt get into details but i wrote it with a non hunting audience in mind. If you read the book it has some people for my core audience read the book says im surprised it had so little hunting in it. I did that on purpose because i talk about bridging that gap between republican and democrats, area at an. [inaudible] not only did i think we could bring together groups that are much more powerful force for public lands. Selfishly, where my own personal goals is to help present and represent hunting and away that will make sure we can hunt into the future. Making sure that is socially and politically palatable for the general public. Thats really important for anyone has a platform. Even if you dont have a platform its important for anybody who hunts as an ambassador for we do. So, through this book i saw an opportunity. If i could get non hunters to pick this book up because a whole lot of backpacking, kayaking, camping they would read this book and be willing to give me a chance, maybe someone could come off the other end thinking that he talked about it, the he thanks about these kind of things i could get by on that kind of hunting, maybe huntings not so bad. That was a really important Stealth Mission i had with this book. I hope it comes off that way that people would read it would come to con the understand a little bit more where we come from. Everything im saying and writing, is i think about that. His is a funded mental issue for anyone who hunts going into the future. As far as the storytelling and narrative, weatherby hunting anything else, again, this stuff can be heavy, can be boring it can be hard to slog through when it comes to the public land issues. Theres a whole lot of legislation, this weird subcommittees and bills and regulations and laws that are maybe not that much fun to think about or talk about. How do you get that across to someone and make it digestible in any kind of way . I was append this to the same i say steve told me this no one time i think he did told me this he said i never said that. So somebody once told me if you want somebody to eat their vegetables have to give them a lot of candy along the way. So i remind myself of that. For me at least, this book, and the book i enjoy the most is probably why work wrote this book anyway this is the book i want to read was a book full of fun stories, personal narratives someone that can draw you along the adventure and by the way author a bunch of vegetables they can be so full with that candy are not in mind the broccoli. Thats what i try to do. Its funny having written the book, i wish i couldve done a better job wish i could change this i wish i wouldve done that. Eventually you can only rewrite, right read and rewrite so many times. Eventually have to put out to the world and its the best i could do it this moment in my life and hope its good enough. I am hoping that i will get a chance to do another one and will see where it takes me. Its a lot of fun to try to fix up a meal like that. Im going to switch gears back to white tail. Think you alluded to those of us who hunts whitetail tend to care deeply about the animals and with a bring to our life. I think one of the biggest threats of this point in whitetails especially in the state of michigan is cwd. And so i know how devastating that disease is to the deer population. One of the things i run into is miscommunication i think between the Larger Population about cwd and how it is a problem. People are getting information from all of these different avenues, whether it be a rock star or a scientific article, right . You dont always get the information for the most reliable source. My question for you then is how do you cut through all of these barriers and how does the general population no what is good science and how to interpret that science into what it means for our enjoyment of the whitetails . Guest the question as regards to chronic wasting disease. Its a disease found in michigan a number of years ago and has been spreading and popping up in various places across the country that is a fatal disease to dear. There a lot of concerns around what that might mean for the future. Its a disease its universally fatal. It transferred by little strains of proteins that are left basically anywhere a deer travels. Its very easily passed. And so because of that, because of the possible ramifications of it there are extreme ways government and Wildlife Agencies try to manage it often times controversy will. For an interview that hunt probably not news to you. So far think the biggest thing going on there is a lot of confusion and misinformation. And just frustration from the hunting public two. Because when the regulation changes come to your neighborhood, its usually not great youre not going to be very happy about it did not terribly keen on it. The way i approach things like this, is to understand what i know and what i dont know. What my limitations are, and then looking to those who have the best possible chance of knowing what they are doing. So i am going to air on the side of science and scientific methods and the fact that you go with the best thing, the best knowledge you have theories, you test them and im going to trust that the folks working in this every day no more than i do. They know more than a rock star knows the no more than a guy on tv with gray hair. Im going to air on that side. If this is as serious as our biologists say, and i trust them, then we do need to take very seriously i will air on the side of caution because its an amazing resource we have. Whether its deer, elk, or moose, if this thing goes the wrong way if this disease becomes of vicki to us across the country then its for my children and all of our children is pretty grim for total different reason. I try to lead by example im not going to claim to know it all. Im just going to claim to try to stay up and err on the side of science and put my faith in those who spent their lives in this field of work. We have time for one more question. Guest who really, really once the question how about theres a vortex . Those two. Talk about public land, talk to us a little bit, if there are issues we should be concerned about here in michigan . Im a public land hunter i want to be informed because that is where i get into the wilds. So are there issues we need to be aware of here in michigan . And if so wheres the best place to get information and just more information . Guest great question there a lot of things were not here in michigan whats nice is we are different than some of the western states. The way the state land works in places like michigan is pretty good. We manage a lot of state lands, dealt have a horrible track of selling them theyve just recently some state land is put on the auction block. Also a couple of things, theres some local organizations dont mention backcountry we have michigan chapter they sit on the board getting people involved people across the straight entrance state to keep in touch muc c is another great local organization doing great things to again keep you abreast of whats happening here in the state. I will tell you also that this whole National Federal public land thing, that impacts us hereto. We have it pretty darn Great National forest here in the state. So tap into those local organizations, get involved, alan would be a great one to talk to if you want to do some things here in michigan. Guest alright, thank you, thank you, thank you,. [applause] weeknights this month we are featuring book tv programs, showcasing whats available every weekend here in cspan2. Tonight we have authors of history book starting with professor serena on the 1770 boston massacre. Then it is history fetzer benjamin park who wrote about the founding of navajo illinois. Thats followed by Gretchen Sorin on her book driving while black on how the automobile impacted the lives of africanamericans. Here every weekend on cspan2. Cspan has roundtheclock coverage of the federal response to the coronavirus pandemic, and it is all available on demand at cspan. Org coronavirus. Watch white house briefings, updates from governors and state officials. Track the spread of across the u. S. In the world with interactive maps. Watch on demand any time unfiltered at cspan. Org coronavirus. Smack welcome to the free library of philadelphia mathers andy and im the director i have one unfortunate update of our program rick burns will not participate our discussion this evening during engine doing to a work related issue. Good news is you will see a snake preview of his new documentary which will be aired on pbs later this year. It is based on ten years of research by. [inaudible] a cor