Cspans book tv. So kevin, why is espn putting out young redders book called the fierce 44 . Look, it for the undefeated, our platform, which focuses on race, sports and culture, we have done a digital project in 2017 that was kind of an ode to the first africanamerican president , hence the title the fierce 44 so we had this idea that lets do kind of an homage to inarguably, i think the greatest achievement for africanamericans to become president and who else should be on that list . And so we did a list. It was an Interactive Digital project and it was, you know, well received, highly debated, and then the publishers said that, could you turn this into a Childrens Book . And because there are not a lot of africanamerican biography, thats a genre thats popular, a childrens biography collection. And robert ball had the illustrations so we edited our digital project and turned it into a book. Whats the format of this book . Well, its basically a short file sketches coupled with illustrations and it just gives you enough, gives kids enough that they can learn about these tremendous africanamerican achievers and just absorb some of the inspiration and greatness that black americans have contributed to this country. And you mentioned you are editor in chief of the undefeated. Thats part of espn. Part of espn. When did it come about and why . We launched it in may, 2016. It was the idea of a former president at espn, john skipper, and it was the idea that here we have a digital project that really could serve a really loyal, overindexing black audience on digital, and meanwhile, help espn with, you know, bring our own aesthetic and stability to espn, where race, sports and culture intersect. I think that sports now is very much about culture, too. And so that came about and i was at the Washington Post, as you and i knew each other, and after a lot of debate, i was presented with this opportunity and i decided to go ahead and give it a shot, that essentially we have a startup within espn. You were managing editor of the Washington Post and how much debate happened in your family before you indicated. A lot, a lot of debate, particularly with my wife. But it was you know, sometimes you just, you disrupt your own career, i mean, and want to do Something Different and take a little bit of a leap, you know, off of that cliff and try Something Different. So, i decided to do that and its been fantastic. Just to be clear, why 44 biographical sketches . Well, it was a playoff of the 44th president. And so, you know, he was exiting the white house and we said, well do 44. It was originally called the undefeated 44, these were our selections, the staff selection. There was a lot of fierce debate. We who you can imagine because there are many, many more than 44 great africanamericans. We dont say that this is the greatest black achievers ever. We dont try to put that on. These are just 44 that we looked at that fit the sensibility of the first africanamerican president in the sense that here is something that they did something pioneering, something disrupting, they were, you know, some cases, i say noisy geniuses or quiet innovators, but they did something extraordinary in their own space and you know, it was, believe me, peter, it was knock down, dragout debate among our staff. And we kind of did it democratically where to get on the list, you had to convince the group that this person should be on the list and if you were going to add someone, you had to say, well, then who are we going to take off . And it was a lot of back and forth and a lot of people were left off, but i think a lot of great people are on this list. And what do you want Young Leaders to know about barack obama besides being the first black president . Well, its interesting. I was at the nba allstar weekend in chicago and happened to have an event that michael willbon, my colleague at espn was hosting and it had barack obama was there with yanis ant yanis giannis ant giannisan tch giannisantkumpo, and what obama does to elevate a discussion and he was interacting with the athletes and you could watch the athletes in the sense of thinking more deeply about how they could influence and use their own power for good on social issues, a fascinating discussion. I think that, look, its hard to become president. I dont care who you are. We know, were watching that n now. Its a difficult long journey. And its a secretary achievement many people didnt think theyd see if their lifetimes and that stands at the top of the mountain achievements. The majority are not athletes. We have six athletes, people we have on the list, Serena Williams, and simone biles, i think could be the greatest gymnast ever, i think she is. And Michael Jordan not only the first black athlete outside of o jchoj who set a model in business and represented wig corporate brands and had a style and swagger in addition to high flying ability. So there are a lot of reason, various people got picked and there were a lot of great athletes. Hank aaron was not on the list and he could have easily been on that list, but i think that the athletes we do have are amazing. Who is not in the book that you personally wanted in the book . Well, i i dont know, i think or did all of your choices get picked . No, they didnt. Some people that i argued for, i dont think there was much argument, but i think, look, some people were obvious, ali, i think, was an obvious one. Thurgood marshall was one of my favorite because sometimes i think that Thurgood Marshalls contribution to really breaking the back of jim crow through the legal system and travelling dark roads and going into allwhite courtrooms and doesnt it under death threats, it was important to have the legaldy mention. While everybody else was out on the streets protesting and doing sitins. He was one of my favorites to be on that list. I think i argued for Jesse Jackson as a forerunner to barack obama and he kind of first set the idea that it was possible. A lot of people didnt want to run for president and also a great orator, and there was a lot of debate. People getting knocked down and added on and it was very spirited. Youre the coauthor of a book on Justice Clarence thomas. Was he considered for this fierce 44 . He was raised, too, and as a Supreme Court justice he was someone who was raised. There were a lot of people who were raised, i think, that we were mindful, also, of not trying to make these choices based on ideology or based on factors that, hey, this person was isolated from the race. We tried to look at achievement and what was done and obviously, with 44, youre missing a lot of people, you know . Tiger woods is not on here. You know, i think louis armstrong, you know, was another that was, you know, debated and yet, Duke Ellington is in here. Yes, Duke Ellington is. Part of the process, we dont want to have it overly weighted with civil rights or activist figures, you could have filled the entire book there. We were sensitive to whats missing, like i probably think we added people, Richard Allen is in there in part because certainly religion is such an important part. Founder of the ame. Founder of the ame church. And churches have played such a role and we probably could have had more religious figures. At some point, i think i may have raised it we dont have enough religious figures, you know, military. Benjam Benjamin O Davis, a decorated general is in there. The first africanamerican general. Thats right. And so that was a nod to the fact of our contributions to the military and fighting and defending this country. Theres a connection between jessie owens and Benjamin O Davis who both served or operated during that same time period, but then came back to the u. S. To a different to the same old world. Yes, to the same old world and jessie owens and many of the other olympians from the 1936 olympics came back and were not treated and welcome in the way that were accustomed to olympic champions being welcomed. And in fact, jessie owens, right returned home to the oppression of jim crow working at basically menial jobs like racing horses and pumping gas. Yeah, and so kind of a side show. And that was, you know, a really tragic outcome for somebody who had essentially was regarded as defeating hitler and really embarrassing hitler in the games in germanyments i wanted to ask who was Robert Abbott. A great newspaper editor. The chicago defender was one of the most important publications in america for black americans at time and during a period when chicago, where theres a migration, you know, the chicagoan and really nationally, really, being kind of pa beacon for truth and leading the way. So Robert Abbott definitely deserved, you know, and of course, were journalists so weve got to have some journalism representation there. What was the importance of the defender . What is the importance . I think that black newspapers at the time. Africanamericans werent working at the white house papers. This is where we got our news, and there was like, you know, the amsterdam news and of course, the afro american and they were out covering the Civil Rights Movement and covering injustice and many of those reporters that were going down into the deep south were just like thurgood marshall. They had to figure out how to stay in places and file their stories, you know, in dangerous places and so they were also under threat, had to do their work under threats. So, i think they were really important. The black newspaper of chicago, defender standing above all as leaders in the Civil Rights Movement. What was the most difficult of transitioning from washington and politics to sports and politics. I was a sports fan, i followed sports closely, managing editor, i oversaw the news and features coverage, that includes the sports department. Ive written a lot about sports, kind of, you know, as a feature writer. So, i felt comfortable in the sports world. I didnt feel too, too out of place there. I think, you know, the biggest difficulty, i i mean, transition, youre at a place like the Washington Post thats so news centered and going to a startup essentially that did not have a culture, did not have we had to build everything from the ground floor, so you know, when youre starting something new, youre encountering all kinds of challenges that go along with that, and so but it was a great transition. Why is it called the undefeated . Well, it was based off of a maya angelo quote that we may encounter many defeats, but we will not be defeated. That sometimes you need to suffer defeat to know what you can become and it was really, i think, both from a sports standpoint and from a race standpoint, really kind of came together as an ideal. I mean, sports, you know, our kids lose. You know, we hug them, theyre going to lose the game and we let them know, hey, this is not the end of the world. There will be an another opportunity and i think just the resilience of what black americans have, you know, done in this country, theyre their resilience and their obstacles, the undefeated felt good. As you mentioned there are six athletes featured in the fierce 44. Are athletes inherently role models . You know, i think whether they want to be or not, they are for many people because they play in public, theyre out doing their work in public and they interact with fans and fans like them as people come pay money to see the games. So kids look up to them. Because many kids grow up playing sports and they wish that they could become, you know, Serena Williams and look at koco gauff now, shes lighting up tennis and inspired by Serena Williams. And naomi osaka was inspired by Serena Williams. You see that pipeline from Althea Gibson to Serena Williams. I think that athletes, you look up to them and you want to become them and so, they are role models. What about colin kaepernick, was he considered for this book . Yeah, there was discussion about kaepernick and i think that certainly at a point in ti time, you know, he has become, you know, a symbol for activism for black athletes now. You know, and certainly, you know, sacrificed his career in order to make a point about Police Brutality and oppression and racial injustice, so, i think that somebody who is kind of the modern day, you know, ali to sacrifice something, at least is seen that way by many people. He was definitely considered. And there were two people in this book, kevin merida, two people id never heard of. Jean Michelle Bass quiat some of his paintings are at the highest resale value right now. He died young. Like some young geniuses, they die too young and you never know what they could have become, and even him, he was we kind of put him in as a disrupter because there were a lot of other artists and i know a couple of people on our staff, im going to call jessie washington out, he thought there should have been other notable painters, roman bearden or others more deserving of being in there as artists, elizabeth katlan. I think this every genre, you have success. You have so much success that youre making choices for lots of Different Reasons and i like the fact that we have, you know, some zags where people would not expect a person to be in the list. So disrupters was important to be included . I think, yeah, i think disruption is good. I think courage, bravery. Where youre or taking a chance, going into places where others, you know, fields that others havent gone. I think all of those should be considered. Certainly achievement is and success was important. So there were just a lot of factors, there was no we didnt have any score sheet. It was just really a field and a debate and we just made some selections. The other one i had not heard of, dr. Charles drew. Yeah, hes a you know, a pioneer in medicine. I know that, you know, in nashville and he, you know, he represents the importance of medical discovery and the sciences and our contributions there and i think the way we thought about that was charles drew is somebody that, you know, we could have had, you know, could have had a lot of other people, George Washington carver, many people in the realm of scientific invention and discovery, but we he was a representation. Who do you hope reads this . I think i hope kids, you know, parents read it with their children and i think everybody, kids of all races and ethnicities, you know, that thats, you know, these are black americans who shook up the world, but its our history. Its American History and i hope that kids everywhere can learn something. Beautiful illustrations in here. Who did them . Robert ball. And hes an artist that we contracted with, illustrators, that was fantastic. So good. Host kevin merida is the editor in chief of the undefeated and one of the authors of the fierce 44, black americans who shook up the world. Thanks peter for having me. Week nights this week, we feature book tv programs showcasing whats available every weekend on cspan2. Tonight books and reading. First, pamela paul, editor of the New York Times book review offers her thoughts on how to get children interested in reading books. Then Mary Anne Wolf explores how our brains process reading print versus digital mediums. After that, book seller and publishing executive james mustik on the 1,000 books people should read in their lifetimes. Watch book tv this week and every weekend on cspan2. Sunday at 9 p. M. Eastern on after words, abc News White House correspondent Jonathan Karl provides a behind of the scenes look at the Trump Administration in his book, front row at the trump show, hes interviewed by the former press secretary in the clinton administration. So you have enemy of the people, a phrase which i actually spent a little bit of time in the book about the origins of that phrase. Its a very ugly phrase used by stalin, used by hitler, used, you know, during the french revolution and basically the justification was the people that were targeted by the law under which they were found guilty and beheaded, that the actual law uses that phrase, enemy of the people. Watch after words with Jonathan Karl, sunday at 9 p. M. Eastern on book tv on cspan2. [inaudible conversation [inaudible conversations] good afternoon everyone, welcome to the American Enterprise institute. My name is ryan streeter, the director of domestic policy studies here and its my pleasure to welcome you to this event featuring tim carneys new book and a discussion about its findings and claims and i think youll find both tims remarks and the panel of interest, particularly timely given the moment that we find ourselves in historically right now. So i look forward to the discussion. Tim is going to come up and of