Good evening. Welcome and thank you so much for being here. My name is kevin butterfield, director of the library at mountvernon its my pleasure to invite you , to welcome you, not to welcome you because youve already come, welcome you to our first michelle lecture. Within days of leaving the presidency of the United States toward washington was entertained at gatsbys tavern in alexandria. Posted by the mayor, and as large a company to partake as we have ever seenin this town on any occasion , someone n reported. Its a remarkable moment in march 1797 for many reasons to not least of which was the group offered a toast of the constitution to the president , to the Vice President , to the congress and then to our illustrious neighbor. He truly had retired from Public Service. His words and response are ones that i think about often. No wish in my retirement of seeing our country happy and i can entertain no doubt of it being show all of us as citizens. The included equation to. It was as a citizen that came eswith both rights and duties. Particularly the wood in the next sentence to a duty to act to maintain the constitution, to support the laws and to guard our independence. As we will see it was a duty he took very seriously. Hedid not retire from Public Service so much as take a different approach to it. Tonight we get to hear from, hear about a wonderful book im excited for you to learn about. Ive had a chance to read it in the free publication page which i actually read over my Vacation Home over christmas break and i was struck somewhat daunted by how good this book was. But i also have Upcoming Events im excited to invite you to. Ill mention a few we have in the near future and in just a couple of weeks on thursday, march 19, we have a free monthly event sponsored by the Ford Motor Company that will bring three authors together, Heather Kelly and louis happen to talk about their experiences as widows of war. F there will not the door, three goldstar families bonded by grief and purpose will be an important nt statement of that challenge at and their approach to the future that came from the news that they heard. Also in march we have Martha Washingtons lecture which we have every month this will be on march 24 and were going to bring together three historians, for about the first and one person whos working on something quite similar focused on Mary Ball Washington and all exploring different aspects of the important life of the mother of the father of our country moderated by karen wolf. Its going to be an exciting event and please look on our website or moreinformation about that. He was well known until this book came out for writing a book decidedly not about George Washington which if you read it you remember the title, a man who would not be washington. All about robert e. Lee and the legacy of general washington and defining generally in his times piggies written for the New York Times and the weekly standard. He lives wither his wife in bethesda, maryland, hitchhike to discuss his book washingtons end the final years and forgotten struggle. Joining him discuss this book would be general David Petraeus asserts as the professor of the school of Public Policy at usc, program with which mount vernon has a long and put the relationship and he served for over 37 years in the u. S. Military and has a dedicated length of Public Service. Please welcome Jonathan Horn and general David Petraeus. [applause] thank you very much, kevin. Thanks for the kind introduction. Much more importantly, thanks for your leadership of what essentially is washingtons library, even though they didnt have those back in those days. Thanks to all of you for being here. We were told this was a sellout. We were not sure whether this would truly be a sellout in the end. The bold, intrepid souls are all here with us tonight, not risky handshakes im sure but what will be a much more enjoyable evening, and sitting at home d connectivity much you lost in the stock market today. [laughing] you left out a few of my post government positions. The most part which is on a partner in taking on one of the worlds biggest Gold Investment firms. So i would be sitting at home tonight calculating my losses. Congratulations, jonathan, on a great book. Its going to be a delightfully evening tonight i want to start out by saying thanks for what you did when you were in government, which just happened to coincide with the surge and iraq. He was a speechwriter for president bush during that time and reminded me backstage that offered some edits on some of the speeches that he did for the president then. But this is a terrific book, and it is on a period that is almost entirely overlooked by historians who typically end in history about washington when he leaves the white house, give very little coverage to what follows. And i, too, was very intrigued to read this book before it was published, and defined at how much did take place and how much in terms of intrigue that him him him him place. But for the book is as note on robert e. Lee. What was the major turn now to George Washington, the person who robert e. Lee would not be . Did it have something to do wih yourgt speech writing during the final years of the presently . First of all thank you so much general petraeus for being here at the home of George Washington, the american cincinnatus. Part of the american cincinnatus is plotting to the rest of the public and i can think of no one more fitting to be at this house tonight than usual, so thank you so much for being here. What motive me to write this book with my previous book, a book called the man who would not be washington. Everyone made the joke that the next book should be about the man who was George Washington. And i have served as a speechwriter as the general mentioned at the end of a presidency, and so i saw what happened when a president leaves office and becomes a former president. One of the surprises i had was discovering that the story of americas first postpresidency had never really been told. That might sound surprising wheo you think about all the biographies that have been written about George Washington, but if you have little sympathy for George Washingtonsgt biographers, its not quite as surprising because think about how much ground they have to cover. This is a man who heard the first shots of the french and indian war fire. He held the Continental Army together during the long American Revolution did he preside over the constitutional convention. He served two terms as president. President. By the time you get through all that as a bbq are out of time, outerspace, your editors on the phone and i have sympathy for that in thing where is your book . And so the last year of George Washingtons life tend to get shortchanged. So i did it take so long for someone finally to cover that . [laughing] as you have. I mean really, why did it take so long for these forgotten years . Which turn out to be really incredible. Quite tumultuous really. Right. Part of the problem as image in your editors are on the phone saying wheres the book . That happened to me as it turned out because George Washingtons postpresidency starts in march 1797. He dies in december 1799. Thats a little less than three years. I started writing this book in 2015. So i see some are you doing the math already. That means it took me more years to write about George Washington post presently than it took him to live his postpresidency. Its not straightforward. Ra its difficult, surrounding power proves far more difficult than George Washington ever imagined. You chose a particular style for this. So you are relaying history through the eyes of those who lived it. Can you tell us about that style and why you decide to adopt . Thats a greatat question. Thats one of the things, one of the expeditions of different what took it took so long to write this book. You have a choice as a barter for when start. You can tell the book through the comfort of a 21st century, and sort of look back, what heights that gives you. The problem with that approach is that it gives you a sense that you might make better decisions than the people who are actually living in the past. It robs the past of all the suspense and uncertainty with which people actually experienced it. Another approach is to actually tell the story of the past to the eyes of the people who actually did it. And by that i mean you only give the reader information that was then available to the people who were living in the past. And you only present new information when it became known to them. This story really t required tht because to t understand why surrendering power proves so difficult for George Washington and what it brought his life to an end, he never really imagined just put out the right now, a little bit more than a year after the link at presidency he found himself drawn out of retirement, put back in command of the armies of the United States and into serious feuds with his immediate successor and a future successors. This really was the opposite of a George Washington was accepting when he rode away from the capital in philadelphia. To understand how we got there you would have to see the past through his eyes, the eyes of his friends, the eyes of his rifles, the eyes of his family members in the eyes of the people who made up the mount vernon community. Washington claimed that he was counting the days until he left office. Un i for a lot of people say that in washington over the years. Very few of them actually meant it. Usually that was what they said right before they try to inquire whether theyre going to be invited to stay on in their current cabinet position. But he seemed sincere. Of course many of you, why was he so eager . Tell us about the moment he did enough people viewed in at that stage in his five . Thats a great question, and he was extremely eager to leave the presidency. Actually the truth is he had wanted to leave the presidency after his first term in office here he got very close to doing so. He went so far as beginning to write a farewell address but he was convinced that the country would come apart if you left office. People told in this. He immediately regret the decision to serve a second term. He says he would rather be anywhere than president of the United States. By the time his second term ends, there is the argument in the world that could have convinced him to serve a third term at that particular moment. He wanted to return to mount vernon. He saw himself living out his days essentially as a farmer. He wanted to fix up the Mansion House here, which he felt that had gone into ruin or anyone were to put personal papers in order. Because he knew people like yours truly were going to one day want to write his biography. Thats how he saw his both presidency going. He thought it would be very peaceful and ended up of course being anything but peaceful. It is filled in entry, controversy. Many others have gone out of the white house, actually theres a whole sequence of events. You have to go to wall street and raise money for your library eventually and all that kind of stuff. But there was no precedent at the time. Was in example at all that he could look at as he did look to the future for himself as he left the presidency . Right. I guess you director wrays money now for your president ial library. George washington had the idea for the first president ial library. One of the things he did when he got back to medford it was he said he wanted to build an archive for his voluminous papers. But as to this question president , the American People at this time were very well aware of the story of cincinnatus, the roman general who would come out, who left his farm, saved the republican return to his farm. Father. That was a story it would very much aware. But that wasnt really a modern president for George Washington to work off of and and i guesso understand just how unprecedented this was you have to look across the ocean to france, what was happening there. Louis xvi had recently left power and he had very shortly afterwards literally lost his head in a guillotine. That was how things tended to go in the world at that time. If you are head of the state and give up our you lost your head. The George Washington was very revolutionary. Thats something to keep in mind as we think about the way postpresidency might the verge for the way we think former presidency should go today. You reflect on the fact washingtons farm felt very far from philadelphia. But that philadelphia was never far from washingtons thoughts. How did he adjust to life back f at mount vernon . He tried to throw himself back into a routine to find, he kept himself busy. He was monitoring the improvements being made or renovations, repairs being made to his Mansion House. He was writing about his farm, and he did throw himself into look at his old papers trying to get them in order. At the same time hed been very he had a very hard time separating whats happening in the thin capital philadelphia. Hes eager to get news. Hes a voracious reader of newspapers but they dont really satisfying turkey wants to know more. So what does he do . He goes to the people who know the most, the members of john adams cabinet. They just happen to be the same members of his own cabinet because don adams has made a mistake turkey we can all George Washingtons cabinet secretaries. So we writes and says if you have a few minutes, write an update of whats happening in philadelphia. He really does push the boundaries of confidentiality. He really does want them to go a little further. He says dont go too far but let me know whats happening. I think what he wants to know most about is whats happening with this Foreign Policy crisis thats developing between the United States and france. France has been seizing american ships at sea, and john adams has sent envoys to france to negotiate a settlement. And theres a long period of silence. Either one is waiting to find out what happened to these envoys inhi france. You can just George Washington getting more andnc more agitate. What happened to the envoys . Writes, were the envoys dean teed . When the answer comes, its going to completely up in George Washingtons peaceful retirement. Well get to that in the second but first we hear a lot these days about the relationship between president s and the press. What was that relationship like back in washingtons days . Did he read the press to supplement what he was getting directly from his former appointees were still in office . Thats a great question. If you look back you will conclude the relationship between the press and the present was always a difficult relationship. George washington, one of the reasons he so eager to leave the presidency is hes being attacked by newspaper editors who associate with theew emergig Opposition Party. They accuse him of they say, the even reprint forged letters to suggest he had been a lukewarm patriot during the American Revolution. To give an idea how far this goes, George Washington spent his last full day in Office Putting documentation down showing that those letters were not true and he himself was not a lukewarm patriot during the American Revolution. Thats how he spent his last days as president. Some of these were funded by serving politicians, as i recall come within that . Thats true. One of the first opposition newspapers, the editor, is working parttime for Thomas Jefferson who is George Washingtons secretary of state. So yes, there is a very interesting relationship. With the press and the president during this time. Whats important to understand about washington is he really cares about what is being put into these newspapers. The criticisms wound him deeper than you might imagine, and he is pained by then. Doesnt wantime he people to think that he is wanting to read these t newspapers, but he is. He tried to find creative ways forr them to be sent to mount vernon during his retirement. That doesnt require him to be a subscriber. He might be able to get them through the War Department or some other way, so he is a very voracious reader, a voracious reader of newspapers and tension is so high that it surprise of many people to learn that George Washington himself supporting the alien and sedition acts which is legislation that actually led to some journalists who would associate with the Opposition Party actually being put in prison in the United States. George washington supports this as a former president. Likely we dont have that these days. [laughing] luckily. Some of the concerns washington had in the early years of his postpresidency sound familiar today. What parallels you see between the Political Climate in the late 1790s and today . That was one of the great surprises of researching this book, was discovering that so many of the things that we are worried about today, with sound familiar to George Washington. For example, we today are worried about foreign intervention in elections. George washington was worried about that,t, too. In fact, the first foreign intervention in election took place in 1796, the foreign power in a convened on behalf of the thin Republican Party which was then trying to get Thomas Jefferson elected president. The foreign power was france. We today are worried about new forms of media spreading fake news. They were worried about new forms of media, too. Back then it was partisan newspapers and theyre very worried about the spreading what we today would describe as take news. They were also worried about the emergence of Political Parties and polarization tearing the country apart. So i think in a way seems that they had these concerns that mayor our concerns today should give us great confidence. Because they were worried the country was ready, part. The country endured and that shouldat give us confidence toda that our country canada or challenges as well. For what its worth ive observed over the years when people come particularly Foreign Countries say my gosh, whats going on the u. S. . Notches in recent years. Its been many occasions. Obviously noted that we have been through very tough times before. I mean, so tough of course one particular episode had to be settled with a four year civil war. Theyre been others as well. But it is constructed to go back that far and realize even then right at the beginning that our Founding Fathers come most of whom have literally put on pedestals all around the country, were actually engaged in such intrigue and sniping at each other with press that the note and all the rest of that. So lets turn to france. Arguably the first Foreign Policy crisis that dominated at least the successors term john adams. Give us a little background on this and the sequence of events that brought us to the brink of war in 1798 and ultimately end up cutting short washingtons retirement. Right. Essentially i mentioned john adams had sent envoys to france, and everyone in the United States is waiting to hear what happened to the envoys in france. News eventually comes back, and essentially the news is that the french would not receive the envoys unless they paid a bribe. And so you can see parallels to that today. Half the audience laughing. [laughing] but, and so as a result theres an uproar in the United States, and immediately the country sort of begins preparing for war. There are preparations being made. Theres a new army thats going to be formed. There are preparations being madede at sea for a navy. And as part of that, john adams nominates George Washington to be commanderinchief of the armies of the United States. Without apparently pausing to ponder why the constitution might specifically preserve the title of commanderinchief for thepo president , or bothering to ask whether George Washington might have any terms or conditions for acceptance. As internet George Washington did have some conditions for acceptance and thats going to cause some Serious Problems between john adams and George Washington. By the way thisof is the firt of what will be several facts that will be revealed on stage today that i that many here did not know. And i must confess that ive completely overlooked the fact that washington served again as command of armies. How did he react to this request . What were his thoughts . George washington is torn. He feels that he cannot sit on the sidelines if everything he has worked his whole life or is threatened. Which really is his legacy, hes the father of this country. If it is threatened he need to come out of retirement and do his duty. At the same time hes hesitant because he has some questions. For example, hes worried about what people will say. Is very sensitive to criticism. Will they think all the things he said in the second term about how he is longing for retirement, at his farewell address, that he could be happy retirement. Hes worried, easy to old for the job . Is a somebody who is younger, more qualified . The french are having terrific success with a general who you might know today, bonaparte, was very young. The final thing George Washington is worried about is really damage his legacy. His legacy is so important to him at this stage. Its always been important to them. Hes always really cared, very conscious of his role in history. He does want to do something thats going to sacrifice the fame he is already earned. And thats one of the reasons he has the condition. The condition is he doesnt want to take active command of this army unless theres an actual invasion by france. And he wants to choose the secondincommand who will serve as the chief in his absence. And foror that position for a variety of interesting reasons he ends up choosing somebody who actually has warned that john adams specific doesnt want, ano a person is the start of everyones favorite musical, Alexander Hamilton. [laughing] the star. I wish i couldve set condition before it took a couple of my commands. [laughing] so right away, here we are a year or so into the postpresidency, and the relationship between washington in some respects has chosen successor turns contentious. Was this unavoidable . I think you are a variety of factors that probably did make it unavoidable. One factor is john adams is a bit of a touchy guy. Just to give you an idea how touchy he is, in 1798, in february, the first celebration of George Washingtons birthday since he left office. John adams who is now the sitting president gets an invitation. Will you come too a ball in honr of George Washingtons birthday . Sure enough, right before the ball here shows up in newspaper response saying no. Sa i will not go to a ball in honor of George Washingtons birthday. This causes a social scandal in philadelphia and across the country. And then there of the factors to consider. John adams goes back to quincy, massachusetts, during his presidency, and George Washington is in mount vernon. The secretary of war James Mchenry who everyone seems to agree is not qualified for the job, is a person who is serving as the man in the middle between passing messages along between mount vernon and quincy. And information did a travel very quickly back then. It could take three weeks for a letter to be relayed through philadelphia to mount vernon and back from mount vernon to philadelphia to quincy. So the result, it was plagued with miscommunications. The most important miscommunication of allun was tt john adams really did not want Alexander Hamilton as second in command. He keeps trying to find ways to get out of it. I guess some explanation is necessary for why didnt he want alexander secondincommand . Or did he know Alexander Hamilton had actually conspired against his election hamilton had other ideas about who should be president , but he and his wife both believe that Alexander Hamilton actually more resembles a caesar than a cincinnatus, anr a private private private he publicly of course adams really cant afford a falling out with George Washington. George washington makes clear that he will resign if he doesnt get his way. So ultimately john adams does have to give way, and George Washington gets his man. Again, so much for former president s not meddling with their successors. Just as an aside, of course, adams was so touchy, as you will recall, that later on he cuts off all communications with Thomas Jefferson and refuses to communicate directly with taylor and would only do so through abigail. And this lasted think right up until just for the deaf. Right. Innocence was interesting is a lot of the Founding Fathers were touchy and a lot of the communications broke off. By the time George Washington died, he was no longer on speaking terms with all jews throughout three needs, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and james monroe. Wait, that is your third, fourth and fifth president s of the United States. George washington is no longer speaking terms with them whenh e dies. Theres a variety ofth reasons y that happened and theres personal, really serious personal reasons behind each of the collapse of those relationships but to give an idea and remind us all our Founding Fathers were not friends. Im glad there are not egos in the office anymore. [laughing] so you know, we do i think nowadays think that president s leaving office become less partisan. I do think that is a model of, you think about george h. W. Bush, together with bill clinton who of course defeated him in his quest for a second term, for a variety of very good causes. Almost all the president s have recently gotten together, the expresident for again a variety of causes. At but you suggest leaving office irde washington more partisan. How does this transpire . I think thats true. George washington did become more partisan after he left the presidency. We do have his perception today that leaving office in some way lift president s above partisan feuds. But really the exact opposite happened to George Washington. He involved himself in congressional electioneering in the way he never would have asas president. He supported as a mention the alien and sedition act. That led to printers were soso with the Opposition Party actually being locked up. And he also favored excluding members of the Opposition Party from high rank in the new army that was being four. This essentially was a partisan army. The reason this is so surprising to us today is to look back at George Washingtons farewell address and itng says of coursee all reminded try to avoid the spirit of medical parties. During the last years of George Washingtons life, he wrote a letter basically saying that all americans polled had a choice but to be a member of one party or the other. And back into the choice was between being a federalist and being a republican. George washington was a federalist. Things actually got to such a point that there is a concerted effort as it becomes clear that john adams will lose the presidency in the election of 1800 to try to convince George Washington to seekof a third tem as president. And that are influential people who are in touch with members of john adams capped it trying to make this case to George Washington. He of course tries toof silence all talk ofe the idea. One of the arguments he makes is that he could command no more votes than any other federalist would at this point because the country was so polarized. And he said the republicans would light up behind anyone for president. He even throws at the prospect that aan broomstick could run fr president of the United States. And declared itself to be a republican or a republican would vote for the broomstick. So here is the father of her country pondering losing the presidency to a broomstick during the final months of his life. We better retreat to safer ground here for a moment. [laughing] washington of course had no biological children. And yet you point out in a littleknown fact that he did have help raising children he parroted marthas grandchildren from her first years. What kind of father was the father of our country . I think he found that kind of father to be particularly challenging, especially when needed with marthas grandson, which washington custis. We know this because we had the letters that George Washington sent to George Washington at school. There were a variety of schools George Washington went to because he kept dropping out and George Washington would then have to find new school to send him. He constantly just feels letters with advice and more and more advice and the some ways the advice is dont trust yourself to listen to your teachers. [laughing] which interesting to that for me was that many years later, many decades later another virginian would find George Washington parke custis, and that person was his soninlaw, robert e. Lee. That in some ways was another connection that led me to the start of George Washingtons last years. Only a few letters survived between george and martha washington. What was the relationship like during his postpresidency years . Yes, and tragically martha we think burned george, letters that george and martha exchanged here but we do have a sense of what those letters my dissent because washington described them during these last years and he said if anyone read them, they would get the sense of friendship. And i think thats probably a good way ofe thinking about thr marriage. Rarely where they alone but always did they like to be together. He discovered i think is a friendship, a partnership. Thats what hesh liked to get quite a bit of advice of love to other people and always advised i would only say when passions die you have something firmer to underpin a marriage. We also do know that he was still thinking during these last years about one Sally Fairfax. And we know that Sally Fairfax was a married woman who i think we can see a use George Washington fell in love with as the young man before he had married martha. We know he is still thinking about her during his last years because he wrote a letter to her where he said that all the things had gone afterwards in his life, that is he make a revolution, two terms as president , had not meant as much to him as the time you spent with Sally Fairfax as a young man. Martha didnt see that one i take it. [laughing] the of martha send a separae letter to Sally Fairfax which himself actually drafted for martha and she recopied. How did their marriage complicate the clause that he wrote into his will for emancipating the slave . That was a major complication. Because most of the slaves at mount vernon, were not actually George Washington. The plurality of them belong to the estate of marthas first husband and it was actually not in George Washington power to emancipate the slaves, nor was it actually in marthas power though it is not clear that martha herself would have supported emancipating the slaves, even if it had been in her power. That was painful for him and you can see this in his will because he acknowledges that painful consequences will result because he is well provides for eventual emancipation for his slaves. But it acknowledges that the marriages, and there been many marriages formed between his slaves and the slaves who belong to the state of marthas first husband, will be broken up as a result essentially mount vernon inns of sharing a fate very similar to that of the United States as a whole. It ends up being half slave and half free. Did we buy the way talk about collecting questions . [inaudible] we are supposed to ask you to send questions and down and youre collecting the questions . Okay, good. Because are several more questions and then we will reach the time when it is the audience participation which comes againi by use of use many questions to me which i will then ask of jonathan. Washington ultimate of course it diesy a really tough, excruciating death in 1799. Was there any hope for saving him . Thats a great question. Certainly the medical care he received did not help matters. He essentially dies of because of infection. The modern term that julie given is acute epicondylitis. He cant breathe. He is slowly, slowly suffocating, choking to death. There is one doctor, a younger doctor, there are three doctors, was the idea for the tracheotom tracheotomy. Which would basically try to bypass whats obstructing his windpipe. And that doctor says maybe we should be bleeding him quite as much as we are. But bleeding pectin back then,n George Washington, its important to say, thought bleeding wase effective. We know that because when he woke up on the day of his death, he had someone to work at the estate to the first bleeding, and person was tentative about it and martha was worried that too much blood was being taken. George washington says, more. The doctors who followed took a lot more blood from him the younger doctor said at some point, i dont think bleeding is right thing to do. He needs his strength. But even though he thought bleeding was the best thing under normal circumstances for George Washingtons condition. So would it tracheotomy have worked . Maybe but probably not given the state of 18th century medicine i think he wouldve surely die because of publications of having had the tracheotomy done. One of his final wishes concern the care of the personal papers you mention he was conscious of his place in history. How conscious was he in particular during these final years . He was very conscious of his role in history, and he was very worried about his papers. He wanted to get them in order. He spent some of his time during this time making edits to his old letters. You might be thinking what kind and it is he making . If you tried to change history . Not really. Hes trying to fix up his grammar. He was worried about the way he wrote certain things back then. Its important to say because, in my book records this, a lot of people back then said things like George Washington was and he couldnt have written his own letters picket of the people write his lips for a support appointed George Washington was an extremely good writer. He was a very, very effective letter writer. I was impressed with his writings. And so hes a conscious of his place in history and so much so he i think long before most of us got the idea in the social media world that anything you say cant live on forever its only write it down. George washington already understood that reality because he had been living that reality for a long time. He knew after dinner with George Washington that you know and sent a letter and to put in your diary and those things could be found by historians or work the way into newspapers so we always had to be careful about what he said and what he wrote. I think he knew people like me were going to be reading his letters. Churchill famously observed that history would be kind to him, because he intended to write it. [laughing] did washington ever have that idea . There was no autobiography. I guess there were not sevenfigure advances akin those days. There was an attempt at an official George Washington biography actually. Its sort of little known. A very small part of it was published but the opportunity was somewhat blown, and it didnt really turn into much. It does provide interesting insights because you can see how washington edits. It is interesting for us to look at but at the same time as someone who writes biographies for a living its very upsetting to see someone blow the opportunity to write the official George Washington biography. He needed a speechwriter like you. Just months after washington died, the federal Government Official had moved to the city that bore his name. Can you talk a bit about the relationship between the man and the city of washington . Yes. This was not lost on people, that George Washington dies and just months later a new capital city opens with the name washington. It was very fitting that the city of washington was called washington. It was George Washington who had chosen the spot on the Potomac River for the city. It was George Washington who it spent a good deal of his presidency overseeing the construction of the city. And it was of course ultimate George Washington who gave his name to the place. He did we start calling washington itself until the end of his presidency. But i think he hoped the city could do what you really dont longer could, which is hold together the feuding and factions tearing apart the country. And, of course, there iss some irony today as we think about it, the fact that George Washington during the prime of life really was the man boast. What is it was the force you altogether america. Today when we look at the city of washington i think its almost synonymous with political divisions. Thats an irony that sort of attracted me to the story and made me realize ine some ways te story of washingtons last years involving feuding and distractions is the beginning of the city of washington. All of us who are on the back of the book there are being away what a great book it is, observes every changes way we view washingtons last years. How did learning this history change your view of him over all, and what lessons should our former president s today draw from his last years . Actually you might say seeing George Washington struggle retirement, doesnt make you think less of a man . Just the opposite for me. I actually sort of coming to understand how difficult it was to surrender power gave me all the more appreciation for what it took for George Washington to do it. Only by understanding how many forces and personalities and plots were constantly trying to lower George Washington back into power, you understand what greatness it took for him to surrender power. As for lesson for former president s today, well, i think in some serious ways of course George Washington postpresidency as we covered the virgins from the way former president s should act. One lesson i think is in some sense former president s get their perception of power from the idea that there above politics, that they are above party feuds and above partisanship. And, of course, the second you reenter, thats gone. You are open to attack again. That in some sense would give former president s of perception of power. Its also what in effect leads them powerless. Some former generals i know just a few weeks ago as we do every year we celebrated his birthday. What would suffice it most about the way we now celebrate that were thick . I think he be pretty surprised how many people call the holiday president s day. I think what a surprise him about that for some of the official name is washingtons birthday. Everybody in mount vernon knows that. But what would surprising is so may people generally call it president s day is that the president s who succeeded him in office really didnt like celebrate the day at all. I told you the story about john adams refusing to attend a pulp in honor of George Washingtons birthday and causing a little mini scandal. James madison in 1796 celebrated house of representatives refusing to adjourn for 30 minutes and honor of George Washington birthday. He thought this is a great feat that he defeated that. And james monroe derided the idea of dancing and George Washingtons birthday. And Thomas Jefferson perhaps most meaningfully of all said the only birthday he would ever celebrate was july 4. Of course that was particularly convenient for Thomas Jefferson because its a limited adoption of the document that it written in the declaration of independence. Ha makes youen get a lot better about today, doesnt it . So you discuss the parallels of washington cincinnatus, later george c. Marshall is also compared to cincinnatus. Can you discuss any similarities or mention in other statesmen with whom you see those parallels . The man sitting beside onstage. I think it so interesting because i didnt have a farm to go back to. Ha in fact, we didnt have anything to go back to. I think there has to be some modern equivalent today. Thats really tough question and i think part of it is the reason its a difficult is because so many former president s probably can see themselves as falling in the mold of the american cincinnatus. The reason thats the case is because George Washington had to go through the struggle he did. Probably today we dont even appreciate how revolutionary the words former president sounds. The word sounds so cliche is a testament to what George Washington did. He make itt normal for a former president to leave power and to become a cincinnatus figure. Im sure a lot in your are well aware of the society of the cincinnatus, a beautiful building in which it has its headquarters across from the club on massachusetts avenue. I assume you visited that during your luck and if history of George Washingtons final unit . Yes. Whats interesting is the society of cincinnati was a controversial thing during George Washingtons own life. Again its amazing, everything caused controversy back then. Descendents of the staff offers, is it not . Youre going to stop me. Im not sure what the modern criteria is. Now his descendents of and any others that they can make aa good case for. [laughing] the question of who should be part of it was controversial during George Washington of life and get another example of how everything cause controversy back then. In some sense nothing really has changed. This is a great question. Thoughts on the New York Times sponsored 1619 project. Thats the fibers question. And i guess what i would say about that, so much of the question comes back to delete the American Revolution was fought for the cost of slavery, which i have to admit im not an expert in the project and havent read it well enough to comment on it but happen to believe that the Founding Fathers certainly hoped that slavery you cant speak for all Founding Fathers but George Washington hoped that slavery itself would be put on the path to extension period and the person who believed in that the most was abraham lincoln. And so i like to take myself at the place up on historical site of abraham lincolnln who believd thathe our Founding Fathers, thy did know how to get there that did hope eventually that slavery would eventually be put on a path to extinction. If you lived another ten years, what were his plans are mount vernon . Well, thats a great question. Whichat washington actually hopd to be able to rent out some of the farms in mount vernon. He wanted to live on a fixed income, and the best way to do that was to break up the estate. Its important to understand that mount vernon was vastly larger than it looks today. It was five separate farms, and including the farm around the Mansion House. He wanted to rip out. It turned out he had pretty strict criteria for who he wanted. He did not want come he didnt want virginians. He thought virginians were really bad farmers. [laughing] so specifically who does he want to come in and run the farms at not burden . The british. He thinks they are the best farmers and thats who is looking to come run his farms. In some sense you can really see it in the way he operates. Its difficult for George Washington to give up control. He is someone who likes to be in control and he has an estate manager is helping manage the estate during his retirement. The estate manager keeps threatening to quit because he doesnt like the fact that George Washington is micromanaging. Washington basically said, how can i be a honesty and not have o opinion on how youre running the place . That tension is there and he is constantly looking for different ways to run the estate. And actually right before his death hes putting together a new plan for the way he hopes mount vernon will be run. That gives you a sense that he did not expect to and when it finally came in december 1799. Was washington acted as a mason in his postpresidency . And masons by the way played a big role at George Washingtons funeral. They were here for the funeral rites. Whats interesting about that moment is that George Washington specifically in his will says he does what any sort of military procession at his funeral at mount vernon. But theres no way of stopping it from happening anyway. Its a command that troops and alexandria will not follow. Somebody says thank you very much free time tonight and a great book. Thank you. What do you think George Washington would think about the fact that we as a country have many of the same problems he witnessed 240 years ago . With the despair at the lack of progress . Lets focus on the positives. He would be very impressed i think by how quickly you can get around this country. Back then he was hoping that the Potomac River would be the central artery for connecting the United States. That didnt exactly turn out that way, did it . But he would be i think pretty impressed by trains,s, by airplanes. Its dangerous to say what somebody from the past would think of the present. But i think he would be pretty impressed by the way we could move around this country and he would be impressed by the progress weve made. Again, its difficult to say. The answer deathly should be preface by saying we should never say what someone from the paste would say of the present. We cant say what George Washington would say and twitter but i think it would be fair to say there would be no at George Washington. Always remember churchills great observation that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. This has been a delightful evening. We do thank you very much for it, and much more poorly for a book on of period of washingtons life that is been completely overlooked by most historians. So thanks for doing this so brilliantly. I know you are still in the book to her phase of this book. It was only published a few weeks ago i guess, doing very, very well. Amazon has it number 13 in whatever category it is,wh which is quite significant. But its not to send ask you what the subject is of your next book. Ctoh, no. [laughing] i was just thinking about this because my wife is asking me what is the subject of a next book . What are you doing . Ou this is how he makes his living, after all. And so i think choosing a topic for a book is a little bit like dating. Im not sure if the metaphor intraregional to me that you had to research some different topics before you make a commitment. Because you are ultimately going to make a commitment well, not as long as a marital commitment. It is a fiveyear commitment and then you have to live with the book for the rest of your life. This is a very delicate way of dodging the question in saying im still in the dating phase. Are there no subjects with which you are at least flirting . Allub subjects within range f american history. Thats with so many stories to tell about our country. Were lucky to live in a country with so many Great Stories to tell. You dont want to come closer to the present . Maybe ill come back to the 19th century. Thats progress. Thats progress enough for me. Ive only seen enough of the 21st century. [laughing] it was simpler back in. Jonathan, congratulations n a great book and thanks and wonderful conversation. Thank thank you so much. I really appreciate it. [applause] we will continue the conversation out in the lobby. Thank you so much. [inaudible conversations] tonight on the communicators luther lowe on digital competition and why he thinks google has betrayed the internet. Google is during all of its traffic to itself and, therefore, in a sense deoxygenating the entire World Wide Web and stifling innovation and ultimately harming consumers because theyre not giving access to the best information from across the internet. Watch the communicators tonight at eight eastern on cspan2. Weeknights this week we are featuring booktv programs showcasing whats available every weekend on cspan2. Tonight books on the american worker. Watch booktv this week and every weekend on cspan2. Television has changed since cspan began 41 years ago but our mission continues. To provide an unfiltered view of government. Already this you we brought your primary election coverage, the president ial impeachment process and now the federal response to the coronavirus. You can watch all cspans Public Affairs programming on television, online or listen on our free radio app. Be part of the National Conversation through cspans daily Washington Journal Program or through our social media feeds. Cspan, created by private industry, americas cabletelevision company, as a Public Service and brought you today by your television provider. Good evening, everyone. Welcome. This is such a great crowd. Thank you, guys for being here. So welcome to politics and prose at union market. 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