Revolution and trump in washington. I will get right into the idea revolution. We say in the book, america has been through viciously divisive. Far worse than today. With history we can see them as points in the transitional periods between old system that is broken down and a new one largely information. Are we at an intersection point absolutely enter the best example of it, isnt in 2016 in a republican primary it was a real civil war on the Republican Party that the establishment rep. Five jeff bush and others, couldnt get the nomination are they making people who got it, revolutionary donald trump. And the are going to the same thing right now. And theyre having a civil war in the party. What is going to be the traditional democrats, is it going to be some outsider. It will be a socialist. But i think that is indicative of the fact that it just doesnt work pretty and the things that have worked for the last 40 years to govern the people, it really has not kept up in the country. And i guess at the end of this book, and realized after a long period of sort of thoughtfulness and i went into the wilderness and try to figure it out is that american goes through these devices. Roughly over 40 years know why. It is because were very dynamic country. Demographically, david geographically and economically we are constantly reinventing ourselves but just as individuals but as a nation and governed by its very nature, it is a status quote institution. Its how weve always done things. And were going to do the things the same way again. And people get stuck in america is ready to have these political revolutions. We had one in the very beginning. In the american revolution. K. T. but ever since then we mostly have the revolution. And i think thats what were in the middle of right now. One of the things you said you are very interested in definitions and he said without this, we are just looking past each other are more likely to screening each other before so today we had a bit of conversation. Danielle that we could have constructive dialogue across the aisle, and it might actually make first some good to be of people were screaming at each other but certainly, more productive conversation would be special in this day and age is Common Ground stability and understanding of each others differences. Can you explain to me what you mean by nationalism and populism and out might be different. It. K. T. i think there are four things, nationalism and populism and then elitism and globalism. I was always decades, republican policy, i went to all of the schools. And jobs in administration but over the past 20 or 30 years i really came to reject a lot of the thinking that i had before about globalism. Now globalism in my mind is the idea that because it is a sophisticated it international economy, the world is flat, that the boundaries, National Boundaries are not as important and National Boundaries are not important when you think of the internet and you think of finance going and people going, so that the boundaries are less important because it is the free flow of information and ideas in individuals, finance, business, and so that is an international or globalist, they think will perhaps, and new world and so we really dont need to think so much about the National Laws and regulations. We really need to have global institutions and global regulations. In the second part of it though is that elitism and that stems from again a complicated world and society so all of the experts and only the people of had graduate degrees in Nuclear Weapons, knowhow or should be able to have any kind of opinion on National Security so slow to together. Waters dont matter. And experts do. And a lot of illegal tests, are the people who think well if we only have this International Group of enlightened people that they could better govern the world and we would be safer and happier place. And thats sort of where i was 15 or 20 years ago. I am not there anymore for a couple reasons. One, the elitists, not thinking of all of the people. And the American People, especially isaac patriotic red blooded american i really believe the market people are not some selfselected group of experts, the state bureaucrats wrote aristocrats. As the American People who would like to choose their leader, they dont like them for them out. And some make this meant mistakes and then change their minds. And the other part of it is globalism versus nationalism. I think that we have spent far too long in dealing with the world as we wish it would be. That the United States at the end of world war ii, a dominant country in the world and militarily, economically and what we did was we were very generous to our former allies and immature former adversaries who have the societies devastated by world war ii. We entered into a Security Agreement by literal as well as trade agreements to our disadvantage. And put up 75 percent of the resources for nato for example. In the trade agreements we had were very lopsided and a lot of them were intact at the expense of the american industry in order to encourage Economic Development and rebuilding in the devastated nations and reported japan. And so that is how things were for 50 or 60 or 70 years but it did not think it made sense anymore because the world had changed a lot of those countries are most of them had not only recovered economically but in fact were surpassing us in other ways. And we did the same thing for china and around 2000 we said to ourselves, were going to give china a helping hand and were going to help them economically developed because they in the end will be like, japan or korea or europe and they will be our trading we will hotly by the same rules and they will be our friends. He did not work out the same way with china. And so that is why ive broke with nationalism and broke with globalism and broke with elitism and will be for donald trump came along, i was already there. By 2014 at 15 and the reason i was, i did a lot of public speaking and crips are the country and i am in elitists okay im live in a really nice mobile in new york. But as a woods around the country, i knew something was happening and i cannot figure out what it was so i ended my own informal calling and i would get up to the podium and i would say, how many of you think that the economy is not where it was. You wont have the opportunities for your childrens generation as you have had. It enhanced when it. So is it do you think americans getting kicked around by pipsqueak countries that we should not get confronted about and maybe half of the house without that i would ask, what about the values of american that we think of as American Values, selfreliance, independence, ingenuity, how many of you think that those are kind of furthering the way. His 75 percent and that i would say, how many of you think its washingtons fall and everybodys hands went up including the guys running the sound equipment soy realize that the people that i was talking to, womens groups, college students, Foreign Policy experts, business groups, they were all doing really well for the most part. They were not suffering get the new something. Running the country and so that when really had an awakening. So i decided that the way the country, and had governed itself for decades, just not working anymore so i became a committed, nationalist and my version of it, and committed populist my version of it, before donald trump even came on the scene but i would say can one really point out to me nationalism is, nationalist we hit the other guy. And i populism, is that well oh well, we dont have to do anything and we shall be, lets give everybody everything, its not that kind. Thats Something Else for somebody else to talk about for but for me its getting back to americans roots. It. Danielle what i appreciate when you talk about elite elitism, youre selfaware to talk about your own educational experience and the people that you are around and i can sense of peace so for example you talk about your time in the white house im really interesting and talking to you about that and being the senate National Security advisor. Including people at fiona hill, and we needed china system and that was it was working for the wall street journal in the mid to late 30s, is there is like the white house we are going with complicated problems. Is there. [inaudible]. I am many people are educated who had experience would been in the ground in afghanistan who would written extensively and about ideas about a peoples government. Suet absolutely but thats what we have a president. We get the best advice we can get and then you decide whether or not you want to take it. I was responsible for hiring doctor tannehill was ahead of russia in europe and i better books and known her for years. And i thought she would be really important condition. I knew she would not agree with me on a lot of things but i thought before Trump Took Office that my kids in the campaign trail that he wanted to improve relations with russia, not the least bit naive about them, theyve been doing that stuff for a long time monkey around with us for decades and brought the doctor would be a very good advisor for, because i had hoped the top could get into negotiations with britain and i wanted her to be able to say to him lets have the back story here the strike the harder deal and sadly that is not how it worked out because of the Russian Investigation thought she would be a very good advisor to trump and i thought that he would respect her views and i think he did. Theres just not the way it worked out and as far as ive known him for decades and what he thought was good about him is he in real world experience in the Business World as well as the journalist world, also fearless and he wanted to take a much tougher stand in china which trump wanted to do so. Danielle give been very clear about china that Trump Administrations have not recognized that china is really the challenge for the this coming trade. Im interested in presenting now so i am interested in the competing with economy is very much they run in your thoughts about how the president has been tough with china in a way that other president s may have not been tough enough. K. T. where would you like to start. Danielle how about the asymmetry between capitalist country like america in a state run economy with the president elect are trying to trade and show them. K. T. thats why i like the spanish. Lets start at wares china and who are they and what happened. So the president , he has essentially, like the China Communist Party has said to them give us all of the power and this is for president xi. We promise you that you wont have prosperity and peace. That would be the glue that held the country together and especially in less a 20 or so years the economy is been this faded away but theres no religion that hold them together no real ideology. His authoritarianism. And then maybe ethnic tribe and historical time the chinese history and so i think that is where they start out and that is the deal the chinese leadership and with the Chinese People it is worked out great. For the last probably since 1980 or 1990. Prosperity has increased. The thing is to look at the generation. China and the leaders have advanced, is not like in america, or in the west we might have no person in a young person and within the the unitas u. S. Senate together have an old can take. In china, you probably identify it as a really smart, somebody we want to nurture so the chinese, advance with their age group. By the time to get to be president of china, they have seen all of the leaders that they are now dealing with in their government bureaucracy the Foreign Policy community and meet military community. They have been working together for decades. You dont move with your age group, you move with your age cohort so for the people planning china today. People in the 60s. Where were they in the formative years of their lives when they were in their teens who were in the middle of the cultural revolution. And that, was in the 60s, up to maybe 1972 and 1973 nesson these guys were in their late teens and a lot of the leadership of china now, have been wrestling, they were the sons of the leaders of china. When the culture revolution happen which was chaotic and disruptive and it was guard students who are storming universities and tearing down leaders and it was really, the wrong kind of populist revolution but they went wild they took a lot of the Senior Leaders of china and the put them in jail. They sent them out into the country basically is save slave labor. And xi father was one of those people. And as these cohorts and colleagues a lot of them had been in the top positions when they were young they live the good life in beijing and then all of a sudden they were sent to the countryside along with their families to be punished and beaten and so i think that when xi and his crew, to them that was the worst thing that could happen is the destructive society is people going crazy in their breaking down. Revolution revolution of the wrong. And what they want to do it all causes make sure that china does not there again. I think the drive, or pull authoritarian social points and think that drives their position in the world. They do not believe like we do this sometimes revolutions are good things. An individual freedom, youre not going to have that. You going to be as the government tells you so that sort of where they start out. They do not want disorder and they want prosperity. Everythings going along quite nicely in the United States as they say really try to help china. To modernize and we thought well, modernize and open their economy just like korea just like all of the other countries is all going to be great, happy world can by god but it did not happen. Because the chinese needed to, they were coming from so far behind. They tried to do probably 20 and 30 years that took the west a hundred years to do their very conscious of that that they have people who were in starvation situations 20 years ago in the know there building market cities. They will do anything to keep that up. A lot of the manufacturing jobs, you can safely say they were in america and then went to china. In america never really retrained a lot of the people. We have under in employment on the population of the chinese are booming. So we enabled their success. We dont resent their success the list i dont. We enabled it for now the times have changed and now its time to recalibrate that relationship. We do not need to treat china on the third world country and give them the advantages and finance and market economies so they wouldve enjoyed have enjoyed as a third world developing country. Im not saying that we should have an adversary relationship and missing we should try to get them down. Lets just play fair. Because they have done great things. With now establish that. Historic achievement in the world for the time rejigger that relationship. Speech of what about wai way for example, in the buying up of all throughout africa. Danielle do you have concerns about china, displacing the United States as a sort of the predominant power. K. T. the chinese for years have sent to the americans, we know youre in charge, youre the big brother, we will be little brother and we want to rise. I think the red brick and ambitions changed in the last decade or so. And things would point to our the refusal for example to renegotiate the loan of these deals. There they borrow or steal or however you can access to american technology. But theyve also done probably three things geographically masterly the gotten im nervous about, what is the South China Sea. In east tennessee. Now thats been a oneway through which the majority of the world trade goes pretty from europe, africa, from the middle east in august with the South China Sea is waiting china philippines japan, korea and the chinese have very attractively moved. Thats how they started. We going to build the islands appear and but no, they militarize those islands there now moving towards naming that that is the worlds greatest ceiling of commerce should be an internal chinese and they can decide who does what and when. So thats a big problem. In separate which is the chinese attempt to take the countries, in the 14th and 15th and 16th century where trade went from china to the europe to the middle east and the chinese attempted to reap created and with china in charge, is caldwell, one road, one belt so the chinese will build this physical highway that they will also build the virtual friday i would by going through all of these countries building things through the chinese tanners and attorneys will be in charge. Unlike the romans, during the roman empire in europe and the final thing is that their maritime ambitions. The chinese lookout pakistan and the east coast of africa and they have said well, were going to build parts just like the South China Sea, which is really all about fishing, they want to sell and trade chinese goods. Through the sports but in fact a lot of them are some of those ports are now being militarize in the chinese are building an maritime route in the building a land route and theyre trying to control the world Global Commerce route. And now in addition to that within chinese made in china, with the chinese leaders have said theyve wanted the ten technologies of the future. They plan for making low value tennis shoes to all of the way up to computers and High Technology but theyve identified ten technologies of the future stuff like robotics, artificial intelligence, bioengineering and they have said that we want to be the leaders in those and we are going to do it however we have to. He pointed like american companies, are going to buy intellectual intelligence if we have to. Were going to demand turn over their intellectual property to us. So that is another way in all of these things added together plus a more more aggressive attitude and talking about it, i think the chinese no longer want to be americas little brother and they look at the world they say we are going to dominate the world and were going to dominate the technology of the world and the commerce of the world with our wai Way International five G Global Network we are going to dominate the communications of the world and then we will rewrite the rules according to our specifications. Danielle is that not the case for multilateralism. And the rest of the world, versus china not to say that will be affirmatively aggressive. Where america and a dozen stat states, decided to make trade agreements and Lower Terrace so that they can constrain china ability and frankly, ideally all of the parts of the nation. K. T. i think youre talking about the transpacific leadership. I think that would be a great trying to revisit in the second term i asked thing is good to do in the first place because trump understood that he rebuilt the american economy, as you get off of middle east oil, and make America Energy independent, you have a lot of leverage in the energy world and we also because we are the recipient of purchasers of most countries goods, other countries make it stuff and they sell it to us and the need to sell it to us. They make stuff, we dont have to sell it to them. Mostly we sell to ourselves and trump understood those things and realized if you can fix the economy if he could get us off of middle east energy he could use trade wars to renegotiate the agreements with china, japan, south korea, maybe britain soon, sicko in canada. So quickly the United States is in a far better position has much more leverage and then start negotiating and my advice to him is now that you have china, and the trade agreement, you have a trade agreement with mexico and south korea japan you probably get one with the prince by the end of the year that we now have a construction in the training where we can go to china, a lot of us have the same complaints about the chinese. And then we can go with the block led by the United States and say, we demand a new dsl trade we dont want to keep it down, but we want you to stop it voiding the generosity that we have given you over these decades. Danielle i think it is really, the optimize of tech which we visited when we speak about china. It has given us american interventions in iraq and afghanistan which i know that you have seen as a complete waste of american lives. An american traders. How to be, like iraq and afghanistan, libya vacuum. Isis and al qaeda in the middle east how do we get out of those wars. How do we focus and our resources at home. How do we do that. K. T. is like life. Like child rearing. And you have priorities. To me the big priority now is china. And while isis is a problem and while all of these other things, their problems but they are not, you want to lose track of the real problem. I work with president reagan and he was really great in understanding was the real game here. As the soviet union and the United States. And it is Nuclear Weapons so as not get sidetracked with all of this other stuff that might prevent you from dealing with the major issues of the time. And when trump has allowed the Energy Industry in the United States and we got in 34 years, and the importers to exporters. Within a short period of time, we can be replaced is that moral source of energy. One of us can get off of their energy, and not sucked into their second promise that theyve been fighting each others for thousands of years, tribal warfare, we do not belong in the middle of that. We dont need their oil. In fact will probably just replace it. So i think thats me is one of the important things is all of the other stuff youve mentioned, its important. And if it distract you from doing the apartment things which is dealing with russia and china and the five g global technologies, of the future than you should have a very different approach. So i was critical of not going into afghanistan. We should of killed people but we kind of did that and we should not have stayed around to rebuild afghanistan. And we sure should not have stayed around and tried to rebuild these countries. They dont want to be rebuilt. Speech at the top of the book about the idea of doing a transient nation build, even if the overnight looks like 20 years and what is missing is the build of the Civil Society and institutions. This created democracy. He really has come from countries we want and you talked about in patient me and i think that saying the wrong things im interested in your views on your views on the United States. Ive appreciated it with your candor with respect to the presence tweeting for example and its interesting your thoughts on the importance of institutions in this country, the backbone of democracy. The administration state would generally not a big fan of. Then on the other hand, where for example the scene of prisoner this sort of some way or another, speaking about being in charge of trials in cases. Can you talk to me about the importance of the institutions from abroad. K. T. k. T. one of the most important institutions is freedom of speech and freedom of press. Trump understood what reagan did. The press is going to be against him. [laughter]. K. T. i would absolutely argue that. Danielle i do agree that trump could have been channeled frankly. And George Washington and run for a third term because he just could not be bothered with the newspapermen. K. T. i think trump has understood the same way reagan did in i think all of our great revolutionary presence did is that you have to find a way to get to the American People. In the press establishment. And reagan did it by going around the country speaking to cities and towns all across the country going to local radio stations and local television stations. Stations. And by talking on the radio, work of the market people so how does conduit. He understands theyre not going to like him in fact they understand that theyre going to lie about him and he knew but hes have a way to reach directly over the heads of those people directly to the American People tweeting and sometimes i dont want to tweet but it makes my skin prole on the hand, is been very effective for his ability to get directly to the market people. So for that, me this institution that he and reagan and fdr and lycee lincoln, going all of the way back, have preserved which is the free speech of the american leaders talking directly to the American People. Danielle how do we find that balance. And for something we wouldnt have water case, the wall street journal. The Washington Post reported. So where is the balance between press mob in the way of the president and saying that is actually asking questions and matter to get answers from the American People. Theres always going to be something. K. T. i a lot of times try to figure out how you and i talk, we talk about this at the very beginning of our conversation work a lot of people are screaming at each other. You cant reason with this. Im trying to reason with a tired two yearold toddler. Ive never been good at that. So what happens. I think you have to realize that eventually, those people just become irrelevant. And thats the ultimate proof. A real believer in the common sense of the common americans and those voices that are trying to strangle or refuse to listen, they will eventually go by the wayside because nobody will listen to them anymore. Theres a screaming so my worried about balance, gap, democracy and not get a little out of whack here and there and at of the day, they will settle. Danielle im so excited to talk about the new year issues with you. [laughter]. K. T. whats more american than that. Professional women in midtown manhattan anyways attack me about Nuclear Weapons how cool is that. Danielle is really cool. Talk to me about the elite and the information or policy for the average americans does not get access to. What about those places where nuclear strategies, average american politics for like they have agencies of an issue. It doesnt really come up in politics or debate. But putting that aside, one question straight out of the gate his chin the president find a new start. K. T. bilateral treaty with russia, that is basically nonproliferation agreement a fiveyear extension on the table proving that he will side with north korea conditions. What are the pros and cons. K. T. must start from the beginning i worked in the Nixon Administration we had the first control agreements with the soviet union. They were for reagan when we had when we took it into the Nuclear Weapons between the two of us to where we now treated the beginning of the trumpet ministration one of the things i did is the National Security advisor was to take a review of the american Foreign Policy the first couple of weeks. The Obama Administration, where are we now. What is the status report. So one of the things, with the russians had been cheating for years. On this class of weaponry called intermediary weapons is also pretty clear that the chinese were developing them and they were a part. So my advice was lets get to where we need to get to and if we teach, everybody are reportable say we are cheating. But the russians jeep, nobody calls them on it. It was the right thing to do. In the same way with reagan. And what i liked with trump, you have to have some chips in the game. You have to have leverage. Where is your leverage we dont even have that weapons. Reagan was able to go to the soviet union then and say lets cancel this, lets cancel that. And linda a lot of leverage of them economic and technological average and with the threat of Defense System and that they knew they cannot build and we thought we might be able to. So the cops is not in the right place for this. It does not mean you dont have disagreements but you have them and you negotiate them. Danielle in the nuclear spirit in north korea, we have had this sort of cycle and explain this beautifully in your book. A cycle of the middle and noncommittal and promises and character police in the 1990s. Building a Nuclear Weapon program. What are your views, its an even at solvable problem. Our government has to live with the idea that north korea will have Nuclear Weapons. K. T. priorities. It is china. What he did differently. We tried republicans and democrats and everybody has credit. A little bit of carrots, we put joysticks, and then you have sanctions and economic problems. So than the north korean unit trains committed to that negotiations table right we stink right, we will attempt on the pressure. [laughter]. Like that to your old and tired two yearold. I think it trump is done the right thing in the review that again, and review of american Foreign Policy in the beginning of the Trump Administration in the situation room. And i called it the agencies of government, treasury, state and intelligence, military and of soreness and what can we do about north korea. They basically the same a policy which to me is basically doing nothing. Come back to me is out of excited and want to hear all of your ideas. Think outside think way outside of the box. On one hand, on this and i want you to think that its may be accepting the North Koreans as a Nuclear Weapons and member of the international community. On the other hand regime change and what we might do know charlie and i said lets think about economic pressure. In covered things that we could do predict the coming back in shape history again because you probably have not done a reassessment of both. Position in the last couple of years so lets come back. So well be back about a week later. As for the time initially learning or relearning melissa, and i had early in my career done a paper on north and south korea but its probably about a decade before your work. So anyway to come back and he said yes there is no clear easy thing. Theres a little bit of economic section little bit of covert stuff we do little bit of military 70 for the multimedia instead of thinking of a switch, on or off, you can have a dial and he was start turning up the dial and pressure in all of these places that you can affect the chinese and the North Koreans and the other part of it was understanding the world of china in north korea and 75 percent north korea food fuel in Transportation Fuel oil, comes it sort of a gift from china say the chinese to help you. Other things were going on with china. Make the chinese, said that they would help you with the normative pretty trump said that. They tried but he couldnt do it. But the other thing is that trump but i he has known the sullivans own all of these experts he was getting his advice from they did not understand as a negotiator would understand, it was trump and with kim, it is always personal. He doesnt care about his generals. And even the dogs, he only cares about him his ego and may be a cares a little bit about being a greater leader and his father for his grandfather worked so trump i think has found that third wave, that carrot stick ego. He splayed it. He has welcome him and they said lets go meet i will be two in singapore. It was very carefully chosen. I was gone from the administration and then. Singapores most modern city in the world and the tenant in about a 30 years time so that is a demonstration and again in the next meeting was then the United States, because the vietnam war. And we were mortal enemies and so the erasable was to kim, look, this is vietnam and we were at market with each other. But look at how close we are now. So i think is were carefully calibrated to japan these are the responsibilities and the other thing and which i thought was actually brilliant. Most people but its corny and not sophisticated enough to get this trailer on the movie trailer. This can be you. Danielle like a real estate video. Like motivation and when i could look like. They could be a world leader predict Something Else. K. T. what you do with him and how you deal with them in north korea. Danielle it by how do solve a problem like north korea. K. T. but i think that that was the right thing to do. I think if you have a relationship with china going forward, korea might be in a different position. It. Danielle with your politics you tried, give surgeons of sovereignty, politics and all of these things are internationally. She said about the president , what he does not what he said and am interested in your thoughts that have been has these things that you think are important for the country and i wanted to ask you about starting with what he does and what he says. So i was trying to figure out, most president s have a lot of analysis. What makes them take. Danielle some more than others. It. K. T. the shelf in the library, trump is going to have a whole library will make him take. I think the having worked closely with him is that he wants to win. Its all about winning ways from the new York Real Estate world where in midmay that year or he lost. And he also was in the tv world. He created the whole genre of reality television. Good writing cement ratings. Washington, the claim that. He for him, it was all about winning. How you get there are how you get good ratings pay make money we sell building. It doesnt really matter just just getting to where you can win. So i think that trump setting of negotiating positions, cost talking, i think it looks at those is things you have to do to get to the point we have to win produces a certain tactic. So every time hes heard proposals or negotiations with somebody you might lets say im sure the media goes nuts, the political establishment goes nuts. They said thats just it observed. Trump probably thinks is absurd two. But its his opening bid. So to a certain extent, he says a lot of strange things. So for kim, one week he sort of trash talk him on twitter like my nipples and bigger than your nipples i can definitely meet you in london next week he says can i are sending each other love letters and should trump it doesnt matter. He doesnt care. He does not worry about having contradictory thoughts in the same place. He does not worry about overruling himself ready just once win. It is pretty effective for him. Danielle maybe has an interested in your thoughts, is a southern border wall. 2006 we had secure fence act on the George W Bush and half, at the southern border. Now we are at this crazy place we have Trump Supporters and attractors fighting over almost the same thing. I wonder if the difference is the way that he talked about order security suite talk about building walls, and paying for it was talked about immigrants and immigration. Do you think that sometimes, its frederick gets in the way of a policy may actually be beneficial in the end. Bush talks about the secure fence act, he said in the announcement that it requires that we honor the Great American tradition of the melting pot. To think sometimes the rhetoric gets in the way of the policy. K. T. at all times. I can solve the immigration problem in about 90 minutes. Im going back to reagan and the republicans have a legitimate proposal and numerous like it because they dont want to get him to went and they dont want to give him a win. I think right now, were in such a stuck place that how you solve this is pretty simple, just nancy pelosi doesnt want to give donald trump win right now. Danielle she did a lot of work with the u. S. Mca. And he also, i was going to invite her here. I think theres a little bit of pettiness among both sides. Do you think is worse than ever before that pretty. K. T. i was in the white house during watergate. K. T. i think the difference now is that we really are in. It is a revolution. It is about way more than just trump. He thinks is all about him nancy pelosi, they want you to think the result of them but its really not. Is that the establishment status quo, the washington establishment doesnt get much outcome in the American People, and recent gender supporters of donald Trump Supporters are saying no one a different direction. That was different pretty this is where the nobody wins. Political work there is no middle ground. Somebody is going to be successful in the other side will fade into the background. As far as the wall itself. To me the ball is a symbol. Is just get control of their orders right now predict that is the Biggest Issue in the right alfred the coronavirus. Countries are stealing the border with china. Airlines are refusing to flight flights into china. Now if you do not have a border, it could be pretty hard thing to do pretty supporters actually are important. Knowing what is in your countries important. Danielle i dont disagree with you at all. Just interested in the rhetorical argument. And i would like to talk a little bit about russia. Included. As youve seen with the 2016, election interference and on russia in the Nuclear State was taken over to the United States has the economy like italy and is losing its grip on energy place because of americans energy. We go from here. Thanks on the approach with putin that we retain our predominance and that we dont allow russia example to you in with china where the enemy zones have graded an exit that would be threatening to our global permanence. K. T. i think thats one of the great disappointments as american Politics Today is could wouldve found a way to have a working with russia and i would prefer that we would have an agreement of noninterference. But i think that is politically going to happen and i think the next president of the next and i do think it will be president donald trump. In any relationship with russia its a shame, were in a very good position, a strong position to do with russia. Why because a lot of it is economic. The russians, they have done the same mistake twice in the 1970s, when the price of oil was going up and russia was a big exporter of oil, they really went hogwild when they got all of that extra with full oil. In the road run the world, definitely had a big military buildup in the wind breaking human in the 1980s he was able to because of the price of oil going down and because of the emerging technological superiority, because of just the fact, the incompetence of the economy, he was able to drive the russians into bankruptcy and collapse of the economy. So this putin do. Putin is in this middle 60 so when he was coming onto the world stage, russia the soviet union was a great nation and superpower. And he could look forward a great future. But then everything collapsed by the late 80s and early 90s. And putin career was along with it collapsed but putin goes to graduate school at that point ay write a dissertation in russian and road translation of an he talks about how to make Pressure Gradient that they would use that Natural Resources and consolidate them under state control and then the price of oboyle oil would eventually go up and it would be rich again. And russia did become friends again. The oil prices started to go up, 200 a barrel, and that all collapsed at that event putin instead of taking the windfall profits anyone can say in 2010, and reinvesting them into the economy, he went on another spending spree. Military, services, consolidate control. Now that the price of oil down and i dont think it ever goes up to those levels again, is kinda broke. So this would be a very good time to deal with russians. Let them have the dignity and as reagan did, at the collapse of the soviet union, where the strong position now pretty sadly because of american domestic politics and i would put a lot of that right into the lap of the democrats and the Obama Administration and the intelligence community, they have an effect push russia into the arms of china which to me, is one of the greatest geopolitical threats in the chinese in the russians getting together again like they did in the 1950s and 60s. With chinas money this time and russias military technology. Danielle is that another argument with the multi letter is in. That we could collectively on a value based alliance which really, the American Values built the sarah. Is this a in the case making sure that nato is strong in our alliances are strong and her friendships are maintained. K. T. i think you look great. Lets do the fair share. Theyre just handing out goodies at our expense to countries that dont want to ante up for their own defense are their own economies. Dont think that is a Fair Alliance at all. I dont think that do away with these to me just improve them. Danielle i would like to talk about you. [laughter]. It is been so interesting to talk about some of these big ideas. I would like to turn back about great power if we can, thank you started with a parttime job as a night shift his secretary during the Nixon Administration. The last of the twohanded the white house was of course the National Security advisor of the dirt the president of the United States. Tell me about the art of your life. And what you have sort of learned along the way because you started in the white house and you ended in the white house but of course, especially after this interview. [laughter]. Im just really interested and if those two things, added unit how did you end up back here. K. T. and my middle age to 60s and for me it was the first opportunity for women to have equal access to education and eventually equal access professionally. I wish i was from a working class family and i went to graduate school and scholarships for the first real job ahead was professional and college and i was 18 years old and i was up a fast typist i got a job as a night shift secretary for Henry Kissinger thousand 1870. That time, the most you could aspire to may be white house was to be the aid are the assistant or maybe even Administrative Assistant to man. They just more lofgren it was just way of us. So for me, and i just, and have some grand plan ahead to be a ceiling breaker or pioneer. But it turned out that way because i just took advantage of opportunities that came along. Between my career sitting just a few feet away from my first job as a secretary, to end it as probably one of the most senior people in the american government, setting Foreign Policy in a job that an 18 yearold, wouldve never even aspired to thought to the butler might daughters, they think its routine that women have these jobs. Danielle and theyve seen what youve done and theyve grown up in a place where they see this. K. T. opportunities every year open open open and now in fact, my older daughter is about to have her first child probably by the time the stairs. But the fact that there are so many opportunities, and to allot into an a certain extent, i love working with women in talking with women of all ages. I think the big problem now is how i have it all. Have a Career Education marriage family how you juggle it. Daniellek. T. i had a great career in education and in my middle 30s, retired. I was Nuclear Weapons expert and i retired to be a housewife and mother and i did it for well over a decade. Those are some of the greatest times in my life that i got back into the stream of things after september 11th. And i had a pretty good background so i thought actually with my older daughter, simon i think the countries under attack. Once you out and do what youre good at. For me it was a life in a chapter. I have a wonderful husband and 35 years and i have five children ands american dream. Its. Danielle what you write about is this notion this what we all want and deserve and how do we get back to a place where there is opportunity for all to have equality under law in effect continue, as a working parent now predict i am so afraid to take time away and losing, this miraculous that you could do that and then go back and yet your qualifications and possibly your network pretty you talk a little bit about that. Were so worried about losing ground there were just working and working and working. And you have really shown that you can start and end up and see and with a very interesting and fluid i guess, normal past. K. T. love for anybody, man or woman, but particularly for women coming to have a lot of opportunities. Dont let those opportunities getting into the wake of a fulfilling life. Ive had a professional success but i also have personal fulfillment. I married a grandchildren and impounded every single one of them in every single one of them is different. And if i have not been perfect going on i havent had an opportunity to scold them. The normal mom thing. Its important. Danielle i have quotes from you. Look around you, the future is an author hansford is not just for the elites for the governing class or a bunch of our ideologues or some selfappointed savior to reinvent america in the 20th century it is up to average common regular american citizens and we the people, can bring about americans revolutions. What can we the people do to secure this revolution and make sure that we can live life of fulfillment with the rights and we are guaranteed under the constitution. How do we make a difference. K. T. participate in get involved. I think one of the problems in america, is that ten years ago, 40 percent of the American People and checked out im not political. Dont get involved. Dont care about politics. In what trump has done, in part when he is going to these rallies, is that he has taken a group of people who felt disenfranchised, the not part they were not rich or powerful nor politically active or influential in simple this is your country two. And so that i think whatever you say about the policies and politics of it, the fact that more americans now, are in the political process, in the arena. In figured out. As long as youre all in there together so i think that the just get involved and show up at this rallies. Show up at the polls. They shouldnt govern for you. You govern for yourself. If you dont like what theyre doing, get rid of them. Speech of hundred million eligible voters. So your point is well taken pretty if you dont get to have a say can we not do the same is constitutionally guaranteed for some folks. K. T. is not necessarily guarantee to your. With rights, comes responsibilities. And people will say its not my responsibility. Yes it is your responsibility to choose leaders and you have the forbearance of sacrifice of the you have the right. They have the responsibility. Danielle i will end with another quote from you and what i love about this is that it is a statement about what youve observed it in country and its a statement about the theme from your book but also a segment about you and your right american is an exceptional nation because amazing personal attention possible. But even more profound, is that we have also had the power to reinvent the nation. You reinvented yourself many times over. Youve served this country, youve written this wonderful book. For somebody who is politically and anyway, found engaging in what i loved about it so much is Common Ground. So the revolution trump washington and we the people, its been a pleasure. K. T. thank you so much. This program is available as a podcast, all afterwards programs can be viewed on a website