Do an omas which inarguably i think is a greatest achievement for africanamericans to become president and who else should be on the list. So we did a list that was Interactive Digital project and it was well received, highly debated in the published under publicist said can you turn this into a book. Because theres not a lot of africanamerican biographies, that was a doctor that was popular, the biography collections and they love that he had beautiful illustrations and we edit it entered into a bk trade what is the format of this book. It is basically a short file sketch coupled with illustration. It gives you enough that they can learn about these tremendous africanamerican achievers and absorb the inspiration and greatness that black americans have contributed to this count country. Your editor in chief of the undefeated, that is part of espn. When did it come about and why . We launched it in may 2016, it was the idea of espn, it was the idea that here that we have a digital serving a loyal over indexing black audience and meanwhile help espn to bring her own sensibility to espn where race sports and culture intersect. I think sports is very much about culture true and that came about and i was at the Washington Post and after a lot of debate i presented with this opportunity and i decided to go ahead and give it a shot especially to start up with an espn. Youre the managing editor at Washington Post, how much debate happened in your family a lot of debate especially with my wife. Sometimes you disrupt your own career and want to do something different, take a little bit of a leap off of the cliff and try something different. So i decided to do that and its been fantastic. Just to be fair clear why 44. It was a playoff of the 44th president. He was exiting the white house and we said we will do 44, was originally called the undefeated 44, these were our selections, our staff selection and there is a lot of fierce debate, you can imagine because theres many, many more than 44 great africanamericans. We dont say this is the greatest black achievers ever, we dont try to put that on, these are just 44 that we looked up that fit the sensibility of the first africanamerican president in the sense that here is something that they did something pioneering something disrupting, in some cases i would say noisy geniuses are quite innovators but they did something extraordinary in their own space and believe me either was knockdown drag out debate among our staff and we kind of did it democratically to get on the list, you had to convince the group that this person should be on the list and if you are going to add someone, it was going to be who are we going to take off, it was backandforth and a lot of people were left off but i think a lot of people great around this list. What you want a lot of great Young Readers to know about barack obama besides for being the black president. And how they use their influence on issues and it was a reminder of how what someone like obama does to elevate the discussion. He was interacting with the athletes and you can watch the athletes in the sense of thinking more deeply about how they could influence and use their own power social issues. I do think that, its hard to become president. I dont care who you are. We are watching that now. Its really difficult long journey. To be the first africanamerican to do that is a signature achievement that many people thought they would never see in their lifetime. That always stands i think at the top of the mountain the majority of the profiles in thethe fierce 44 are not athletes. Yes. We have six athletes so even those. People who are left out but i think the athletes that we do have on the list Serena Williams simone biles who is arguably the great gymnast, i think she is the greatest gymnast ever. Michael jordan who kind of not only was he the first, the first black athlete outside of oj who really kind of set a model for how athletes could do in business and in representing big corporate brands. He had a style and swagger in addition to his highflying ability. There are a lot of reasons why various people got picked and we could say these are a lot of great athletes. Hank aaron is not on the list. But i think the athletes we do have are amazing. Who is not in the book that you personally wanted in the book . How your choices get picked. They didnt. Some people that i argued for, i dont think there was much argument. I think some people were obvious. Ali i think was an obvious one. Thurgood marshall was one of my favorites because i think sometimes Thurgood Marshalls conservation to really breaking the back of jim crow through the legal system and traveling dark roads and really going into allwhite courtrooms and really doing it under death threats, it was really important to have the legal dimensions while everyone else was out in the streets and protesting. He was one of my favorites to be on that list. I argued for Jesse Jackson as a forerunner to barack obama. He first set the idea that that was possible. A lot of people wanted to run for president also a great origin are in somebody who inspired many generations to have hope and faith. There was a lot of debate. People were getting knocked down and it was very spirited. You are the coauthor of the book on Justice Clarence thomas, was he considered for this the fierce 44 . Yes, he was raised too, as Supreme Court justice he was someone who was raised. There were a lot of people who were raised that i think we were mindful also of not trying to make these choices based on ideology were based on factors that cover this person was isolated from the race who tried to look at achievement and what was done and obviously with 44, youre missing a lot of people. Tiger woods is not on here. Louis armstrong is another that was debated. But Duke Ellington is in here. Duke ellington is in here. Part of it the process was we thought about we dont want to have it overly weighted with civil rights or activists. You could fill the entire book there. We were sensitive to whats missing . I probably think we added people, Richard Allen is in there. In part because certainly religion is something important abfounder of the ame church with religion is so important to black communities and still is. And churches have played such a role we probably could have had more religious figures. At some point i think i may have raised it, we dont have enough religious figures. Military, benjamin davis, but decorated general is in there. First africanamerican general. Thats right. So that was a nod to the fact of our contributions to the military and fighting and defending this country. Theres a connection between jesse owens and Benjamin L Davis who both served or operated during that same time period but then came back to the u. S. To the same old world. Yes. Many of those other olympians from the 1936 olympics came back and were not treated and welcomed in the way we are accustomed to olympic champions being welcomed. Jesse owens you write returned home to the oppression of jim crow, working at basically menial jobs like racing horses and pumping gas. It was a sideshow. It was a really tragic outcome for somebody who had essentially was regarded as defeating hitler. And really embarrassing hitler and the games in germany. Who was Robert Abbott . He was a great newspaper editor. The chicago defender was the most important publication in america for black americans for a time and really during a period when chicago when there was a migration chicago and really nationally being kind of a beacon for truth and leading the way. Robert abbott definitely deserved. We are journalists so we have to have journalist representation. What was the importance of the defender . And is the importance . I think black newspapers at the time were really africanamericans werent working at the white papers. This is where we got our news. There was like the amsterdam news and of course the afroamerican and other papers around the country were black papers they were out covering the Civil Rights Movement many covering injustice and many of those reporters that were going and down in the deep south were just like Thurgood Marshall they had to figure out how to stay in places and file their stories in dangerous places. They also had to do their work under threat. I think they were really important, the buck newspaper in chicago can the defender standing above all as leaders in the Civil Rights Movement. Kevin merida, what was the toughest part about transitioning from the Washington Post and politics into sports and politics for you . I was a sports fan. I followed sports closely as managing editor i oversaw the news and features coverage so that includes Sports Department i written a lot about sports as a feature writer. I felt comfortable in the sports world. I didnt feel too out of place there. I think the biggest difficulty, transition is that youre at a place like the Washington Post that is so news centered and is going to start up essentially that was did not have a culture did not have we had to build everything from the ground floor. When youre starting something new you are encountering all kinds of challenges that go along with that. But it was a great transition. Why is it called the undefeated . Its based off of my angelo quote that we may encounter many defeats but we may not be defeated. Sometimes you need to suffer defeat to know what you can become. It was both from a sports standpoint and from a race standpoint really kind of came together as an ideal. Sports how kids lose we hug them there to lose and we let them know this is not the end of the world, there will be another opportunity and i think just the resilience of what black americans have done in this country there resilience and triumph over obstacles was reflected in that quote the undefeated felt good. As you mentioned, there are six athletes featured in the fierce 44. Our athletes inherently role models . Whether they want to not they are for many people because they play in public. They are out doing their work in public and they interact with friends and fans watch them and people pay money to come see the game. They look up to them. Many kids go up playing sports and they wish they could become Serena Williams, look at coco gauff, shes letting up tennis. She was inspired by Serena Williams. Naomi osaka was inspired by Serena Williams. You see that kind of pipeline from Althea Gibson to Serena Williams. I think athletes you look up to them you want to become them. They are role models. What about Colin Kaepernick . Was he considered for this book . There was discussion about him. I think certainly at a point in time he has become a symbol for activism for black athletes now. It certainly sacrificed his career to make a point about Police Brutality and oppression and racial injustice. I think somebody who is the modern day all lead to sacrifice something its seen that way by many people he was definitely considered. Kevin merida, there were two people in this book i never heard of, im ashamed to say, one was jean michel basket. Am i saying his name correctly . He was a really an avantgarde painter. He really was in right now some of his paintings are a think his paintings were up there at the highest resale value he died young. He will somebody who like young geniuses day died too young you never know what they could have become. But even him he was, put him in as a disruptor because there were a lot of other artist and i know a couple people in our staff thought there should have been other notable painters or others that were more deserving. Elizabeth catlett. I think in every genre you have success, you have so much success that youre making choices for lots of different reasons. I like to think we have some zags where people would not expect. Disruptors was important to be included . Yes i think disruption is good. I think courage, bravery. Taking a chance going into places where others, other fields others have gone. I think all those should be considered. Certainly achievement and success was important. We did have a scoresheet it was a field and a debate. We just made some selections. The other one i had not heard of doctor charles drew. He is a pioneer in medicine. I know that in nashville he represents the importance of mobile discovery in the sciences under contributions there and i think the way we thought about that was charles drew is somebody who we could have had a lot of other people, George Washington carver, many people that were in the realm of cognitive scientific invention and discovery but he was a representation. Who you hope reads this . Kids. Parents read it with their children and i think everybody, kids of all races and ethnicities. These are black americans who shook up the world but its our history. Its American History and i hope that kids everywhere can learn something. Beautiful illustrations in here, who did this . Robert ball, hes an artist that we contracted with for illustration, it was fantastic. Kevin merida is the editor in chief of the fiercethe unde one of the authors on this book the fierce 44 black americans who shook up the world. Thanks peter, thanks for having me. You are watching booktv on cspan2. Next up you will hear from labor activist and longtime communist Tony Pecinovsky on the history of the communist party in the u. S. Later George Mason University professor collin dweck discusses the role of conservative nationalism in u. S. Foreign policy. After that, healthcare policy advisor Rosemary Gibson looks at the risks of the u. S. Depending on china to supply essential ingredients for many of our most widely used medicines. Check your Program Guide for more booktv schedule information. Now, here is the history of the communist party in the u. S. Hello everyone, thank you for coming out. Im part of the events and marketing team