Crisis and we would periodically would go back to my hometown of yam hill and we saw humanitarian crisis unfolding there, you know, a quarter of the kids who were on my old number 6 school bus are now gone from drugs and alcohol and suicide and sheryl and i tried to process that. The kids who got on the bus right after me were nathan, sister regina, smart talented kids. Farland died of drug and alcohol abuse, zeland died in house fire. Regina died from hepatitis of drug abuse. We wondered if this is about my bus, about yam hill and we realized this is a National Problem that we have despair, Life Expectancy is falling or was falling for 3 years in a row for america and that yamhill and my old was with pain across america. So you saw this through the lens of returning home and i think it almost could have been titled School Bus Number 6. So many stories drawn from the friends you had there and expanding from there and sheryl you grew up in manhattan, upper west side, i believe, its a whole different world. Earlier in your relationship you got to see yamhill and saw it unfolding, how did the lens through which you saw differ from what nick was seeing . First of all, i dont think you can get further to yamhill than manhattan. Its in the smack of middle of the urban world. When i first approached yamhill i was like, what are these people like. We think of whats going on right now a tale of two americas, on the top deck of the boat theres a party going on. On the bottom is where the hole in the hole is happening and people are struggling trying to figure out what to do and stay afloat. I think manhattan really in many ways, the people in manhattan, many of them are in that party and they just dont know whats going on in the lower deck and so for me it took a while, once i started the learning the people and meeting them and learning about backgrounds and talking to them i realized they are complicated human beings and the stories that we learned about their household, about their backgrounds and the journeys that they took really just were so alarming and so, you know, touching and heartbreaking that, you know, we just couldnt help, wow, we have to tell the rest of the world. Whats going down below, your book uses another analogy in the title, tightrope and some of my speeches in congress i talk about trying to pave a wide solid path for families to thrive and here is not just a narrow path but a tightrope, what are you conveying by that . Absolutely. The whole point is that, you know, for those of us who are in the upper middle class who are very well educated, at least graduated some high school and some college, and if we fall we can pick ourselves up, but people in the small towns around america in the rural areas around america, people are walking on a tight rope and one miss and they fall, theres no safety net. And they are falling into a chasm that you describe as drugs, alcohol, domestic violence, suicide. Its a pretty bleak picture about, well, this is personal responsibility, they need to walk the tight rope better or path, for personal responsibility versus collective responsibility. What what have you concluded . So, look, personal responsibility is absolutely real. I think we can make the case that progressive like myself sometimes dont fully appreciate that that personal responsibility is real, one has to give agency to people but i think that over the last 20 years we have vastly overdiet and it would come obsessed with this personal responsibility narrative blaming the people who fall off the tightrope for catastrophes that follow, you know, at this point we can predict with accuracy outcomes of newborn income and when you can do that, its not because the infant is making bad choices or showing irresponsibility and so, you know, by all means lets have personal responsibility conversation and if we do that lets also have the conversation about our collective responsibility to try to help the people who were on my number 6 bus and there were so many ways we can help them in ways that benefits them and benefits society. Paul ryan, the conditions of the book do not determine the outcome of your life. In the book you introduced this term or you share this term Adverse Childhood Experiences in which youre basically saying if you have collected Adverse Childhood Experiences your odds of succeeding dropped dramatically which you portrayed as the odds of being in poverty increased substantially, so explain this this how the childhood adversities really impact your course in life . Its pretty well documented by scientists who have analyzed these situations. So many of us have adverse childhood experience, parents get divorced, big move from one state to another which is traumatic to a little child when you start piling 6, 7, 8 or 3 or 4 that could have atraumatic experience partly depending upon the age of the child specifically if the child is between 0 and 5, that is when the brain developing at most rapid pace for the rest of the persons life, thats when our brain develops quickly. We think of children as really resilient but you know something, they are not as resilient as we think, in fact, when theres violence, abuse and chaos in the house, that creates stress in the baby and that means that the the cortisile hormone, this impacts the development of the brain architecture for the little baby. And if thats not corrected the babys brain will not develop really properly and so if we can address these issues early on and there are treatments, there are ways of using therapy, counseling, we can actually put that baby, that young child onto a better course so that we dont see them, two decades later, in poverty or in drugs or dropping out of college or high school even. Its not just that, not just the psychological trauma and troubles, its also health, so, in fact, people who, you know, have, you know, stacked up aces are much more likely in life unless corrected to have Heart Disease and chronic diseases like diabetes, thats a huge cost on society as well. One way of thinking about the personal responsibility narrative or about trajectory as sheryl mentioned, the sequence, its true if somebody does 3 things they largely avoid poverty, if they get a fulltime job and then they have kids only after and only 2 live in poverty, 79 live in poverty and clearly those involve an element of bad choices or personal responsibility, but they also reflect what we as a society do. I mean, one reason so americans have sex at the same rates as european kids but have baby as teenagers 3 times as often because we as a society dont make Sex Education available and dont make Birth Control so available. Our High School Graduation rates lower than countries because we dont place the same premium on it. Certainly ways we can shift. Its not because American Kids are dumber than others or less diligent, so i think it has neglected the policy side of the equation. The odds against folks that are raised with stressors in childhood. I wanted to get to you, sheryl, in what case is one rewiring compromise success in childhood . That has to do with the brain architecture. The stressor hormone, most of us as adults, you know, it happens for a little bit and goes away, flows right through us but because the babys brain is developing so rapidly at the time and also its so young, its much more fragile than we think that it really does, it can impair the development. Does it make those children more susceptible to addiction, less able to have, if you will, a committed relationship or just multiple effects . Multiple effects and do show later on all of the things that you talk about also more likely to not graduate from high school, you know, more likely to have, you know, suffer from things like adhd. A number of ailments that make it harder for the child growing up to actually succeed and so thats why pedestrians are addressed to focus and the certainly in attorney general is a mission. One thing it does is prepares children for violent environment and one consequence is that it makes it harder to concentrate on black ward because they are being trained for potential threats behind them. That seems to be one pathway that cortisole impairs education and concentration. I believe in the book you note that warren buffet, the ovarian lottery and i heard him speak how he had been born in different circumstances he wouldnt be a multimillionaire because of the infrastructure that others established an also the circumstances of his birth set the path for him to do well, so its disturbing that in so many ways the United States as a developed country seems to be doing a poor job than other democracies, other republics that could have very problems and you note that 39 Drinking Water and 40th on Child Mortality and 61st on High School Enrollment and we suffer more stress than the average person in venezuela and that our Life Expectancy is dropping. Here is the United States with our Congress Working on these issues, state legislature is working on the issues. Our county commissions, how is it that we are having such terrific outcomes. On the one hand we have all of the Economic Statistics that is showing gdp is doing really well, stock market is rocket high and so we look at the measures, inflation is low, we look at the measures and say, oh, we are doing really, really well, but then if you actually peel behind the stallistics statistics, you can see thats not the full picture, a lot of men, for instance, have dropped out of the workforce, they wont even be counted an these men may be selfmedicating, theyve been out of a job for a while and dont have the confidence to jump back in and we introduced a number of them in yamhill, we know that is what is happening, they are not even looks so they wouldnt be counted as looking. Look at the Life Expectancy statistic as nick mentioned, thats another broader measure by which, you know, its because of these deaths of despair which are 3 types of deaths of despair that were characterized by two economists at princeton and they looked at the census data and they saw that death despair related from alcoholism and drug overdoes and deaths from suicide were at record high suicide rates since world war ii, and, yes, they drop a little bit the drug overdoes, dropped in 2018, thats a good sign but its still 67,000, 68,000, thats not a good figure. Its pretty dramatic. So we are seeing that very dramatic failures, if you will, to pave a good road here in those outcomes, why is the United States not doing a better job in getting people off the tightrope, getting people onto solid paveed road . So i think that this is really a 50year erroneous course that the u. S. Took. I think it had something to do with nixons southern strategy to stigmatize investment in Human Capital and benefit programs on the basis that it would be African American who is disproportionately benefited. I think that tended to lead to underinvestment in Human Capital and in benefits across the u. S. Ic it also relates to i think it also relates to president regans narrative and business taking of power from labor unions to corporations, coupled with the war on drugs, mass incarceration, i think a few of these trends came together and so until the 1970s the u. S. Was essentially in line with other countries, Life Expectancy was actually higher than oeacd median and since 1970s the either oecd countries have surpassed us and i think the root cause is underinvestment in american Human Capital. American citizens. Oecd countries, meaning developed countries, similar to our own, and i let me throw out a little bit of a thought here because i see this through the lens of trying to change policy in government and what im seeing is that our institutions have been changing in ways that that create power for the powerful and you do touch on this on your book. You notice at one point that where you have high wealth divisions, the wealthy then have disproportionate political power which leads to rules that benefit the wealthy. Now, if we think about America Today and inequality that we are seeing between the rich and the poor, we are at a very, very high racial compared to the other countries. So is it possible that our inequality in wealth is influencing the political system in ways that is preventing us, if you will, from investing the resources on the fundamentals that pave the path for success for ordinary families . I think thats exactly right, you create this inequality that then selfperpetuates through the mechanism of economic power turning into political power. Ic similar to what happened in the gilded age in American History and i hope so because, of course, then progressivism followed. But took a Great Depression, took a world war, and so thats a little scary that it took that type of intervention to put us back on a path where really for the 3 decades after world war ii we had an investment in programs that that really did lift up the middle class, not everyone. Discrimination is still ramping in some sectors and we made progress in that realm as well. In order to implement the some of the various policy proposals in the book that we will get to in a moment, do we need to change the structure political power in the country . Well, i do think that we need more enlightenment when it comes to this segment of society and i think that they are being totally ignored partly because everybody can point to high gdp and theres no need to change anything because on average everything is going well but if jeff bezos walks into a room of 100 people, on average, everybody will have a higher level of wealth. [laughter] it doesnt make any difference for the people who are not jeff bezos. Thats the problem, its just recognizing that there is this need to lift up all americans and i think also its really important for maybe it helps policymakers to recognize that if the u. S. Wants to compete with the rest of the world, china, india, billion plus people power, we dont have that people power especially we have much less if we dont try and lift up all americans and have as Many Americans as possible reaching their full potential to be productive, innovative and to actually really bring america back to number 1. Poverty with her mother with her first three children, also children to the county and the Great Depression she lived in a boxcar, who can imagine my grandmother realizing a grandson might serve in the u. S. Senate, externally change for both sides of the family. But you describe in this book how the community saw much of this impact of moving forward during those years and how in the mid70s started to stall out in the decline. So what happened in the mid70s that started to drive this reversal . First of all many people in your hometown attribute their past access to individualism and there certainly is a lot of that. But frankly historically, it was also a certain amount of brilliant government plans, the reason People Places like that was the homestead programs. Then electrification transformed places in the g. I. Bill of rights likewise, i think those programs to invest in people in community certainly helped and when things potentially the root cause of things going downhill was good jobs going away. Because local employers in the t closed down and there were new jobs that came in but people would work at the glove factory were not able to get those new jobs, men in particular felt the loss of jobs, not only a monetary sense but psychologically as well. Local institutions like churches were not able to handle the trauma people self medicated, they got criminal records which made them less employable and less marriageable in Family Structure collapsed quite quickly which had been very tightknit unraveled quickly. Yet mean affection, gloves, and you have the consequent is, the g. I. Bill of rights the good portion of that was a Mortgage Program for veterans returning and being able to buy house and have equity in savings and i think youre absolutely right about jobs being critical to the family. Because it does give structure, gives dignity and gives resources and when you are unemployed that things start to happen. Weve seen this in rural towns across oregon for example lumber town was the sawmill and you see some people move out right away, you see others whose dwell in domestic violence, alcoholism, drug use and increase and so forth. Jobs are critical. I think in yamhill and a lot of communities in the u. S. In the 1990s, there was a lot of communities that were struggling at the time and there was a lot of sanctimonious talk about how the problem was a bar culture which was a byword for what were called deadbeat dads or people making bad choices, meanwhile the sociologist william said its about jobs leaving and he was exactly right, when jobs left White Communities with a left yamhill, maine, when they left parts of ohio, the same pathologies unfolded. This was about culture not about jobs. In the u. S. We are not as resilient as a country when it comes to job losses. You can see that very easily with a comparison to what happened in canada, after the National Crisis happened when auto makers laid off a lot of autoworkers and they laid them off in detroit and Ontario Canada are the same company and you can see the difference so for instance in the u. S. Partly because it was a financial crisis they extended in Employment Benefits and people got more money. But they actually lost their jobs and also lost their healthcare which is a huge stressor on a family. Over in canada they lost their jobs but they did not lose their healthcare because canada has universal healthcare and then the government intervened and looked around for where the demand was for other types of jobs and they found out that nursing had a demand so they actually arranged for Training Programs for autoworkers to retrain to go into the nursing field and yes, it is not their dream job but they were able to get back into the work world and years later they were not selfmedicating, depressed or isolated the way people in the u. S. Were. I want to pause for a moment, the loss of jobs this is an area where we all might have different opinions. Because what i saw happening in the mid70s was the start of the opioid of our market to basically chinese production and chinese benefited from competing with americas wages in environmental labor standards, they can make things more cheaply. So you had a glove factory and that glove factory might have said we cannot compete with the chinese making gloves or maybe we can right now but lets move our factory to china because we will benefit and the cost of production would be less while the sales price would be roughly the same and will make more money. We have seen a lot of factories go overseas and some of us may be made a mistake about being so quick to open our market in the way that we did helping to drive the job loss. I think on the one hand globalization could bu be a fore that we cannot compete or prevent from happening because individual factories will make their decisions based on what will yield the best return so they were going to costa rica, other places like latin america or in asia, they were going to make that decision unless theres a law that says you cannot. But i do think there wouldve been competition from other countries going overseas so i think its a force that that may have been slower but nonetheless we did not adjust very well and overall it kept down inflation because costs were lower that americans use. That was the benefit under benefit spread among the 20 million americans rather than the workers losing their job gutfeld much more intensely by a small group of people. I think of the country, other countries also have globalization and automation, they have not suffered the same degree the u. S. Has partly because of the policies that the u. S. Has taken that we dont adapt quickly to job loss, we dont as a society try to help with nudges, you have to find your own job now. The other countries also have universal healthcare and they do much better job retraining and helping laidoff workers retrain for other type of jobs. Did you want to touch on that . I am a free trader and i think a lot of us did not appreciate how we talked about creative destruction, that is great in a textbook but when we have not appreciated those people who lost their jobs in the Oil Industries might self medicate and their families might break down, it became while the trade might benefit the size of the u. S. As a whole, it became more important to make sure that we supported those as part of the greater destruction might lose their jobs and invest in their education so they could adapt to new jobs, we blew it, the winners do not compensate for losers at all. I remember very well studying economics, the argument was if you have a trade deficit, the Exchange Rates will adjust over time into the trade deficit will adjust and therefore you will not have a net loss of jobs, that turned out to be wrong for a different conversation but when we were slow to respond to. So in the situation that you are describing with universal healthcare, you mentioned that in the book as one of the remedies, i often talk about the foundation for family to thrive. I pictured a house and four sides of the foundation and you have healthcare and housing and education and you have good paying jobs. In your final chapter in the book you start to address various issues and they pretty much fall into the four categories and maybe starting with health, universal healthcare and eliminating unwanted pregnancies which goes back to having access to healthcare and familyplanning and why is the United States so poorly on pregnancy versus other countries and of course you have noted already that that is one of the three factors that has a huge impact on the success of the next generation of having children outside the structure of a family or having them early. I want to stress we have made progress. On teen pregnancy, the peak within the 1990s when they were so much teen pregnancy and then we sort of reckon is the problem and we have adjusted a lot, its come down, its higher than other countries but has come down a lot and it shows when we put our mind to something we actually can make a difference. And actually does. We actually have this problem on homelessness. We actually reduced better homelessness nearly half in six years and is continuing to go down under the current administration. When we want to make a change we really can do it very well, its a matter of having the political will, i do agree with all those foundations that are really critical and i think healthcare is very important and i just hope policymakers will remember that it should be available to everybody if we want to lift all americans so they can help america compete against the rest of the world, healthcare is really pretty important. As i travel around rural oregon ive heard a lot of people note the expansion of medicaid has greatly helped in rural areas, for one thing it does not have a deductible that means you have to pay thousands in the beginning so you avoid going to the doctor. Because people can pay bills through medicaid means local clinic has expanded in size and taken on things like drug addiction or mental health, i wondered if any of the strengthening of rural healthcare might have been something that affected or improved healthcare. Yes we have talked to a lot of people in yamhill who say they are so grateful that their healthcare is paid for including one of our friends ended up dying but he died in the hospital, he was in the hospital several times before he passed away. So they were very grateful that he was in the hospital and have more time for the family. Some of those families that you saw were struggling and were able to get help. Absolutely, im not sure that they make the connection that oregon was not expanded medicaid and therefore they got it, i dont think they make those connections. We see a little bit of keep your hands off my healthcare. The reaction there and certainly the premises of the exchange which means you can get a policy at the same price if you have a preexisting condition and have become highly valued factors. Can we turn the tables and ask you a question. You can. We make the case that the politics on some of these issues may be changing but youre on the front line and youre the one to have to get votes and some of these, but we argue that as some of the social problems have become associated in the public mind not with africanamericans but the framing has made it easier politically to address in the way that its hypocritical but perhaps more compassionate as well. And on issues like medicaid for example, the politics may now be in lifting the minimum wage, the White Working Class is socially conservative but actually economically may be more liberal, do you buy that . Certainly on healthcare, absolutely. People used to come to my townhouse and same trying to get to 65 and stay alive so i can get on medicare. I do not hear that anymore. In the most rural parts of oregon, those are the places where medicaid has had the biggest impact and i think you would have a hard time praying out of their hands. It really has been a very positive and for the community for healthcares, healthcare jobs are significant. The things i hear about now, why am i getting the high cost of drugs and why is it a situation where healthcare if youre not on the health plan is so stressful, i changed jobs and i changed healthcare, the health plan how do i get it in the middle of the year, my spouse has healthcare but im not on their plan, i was not on the plan im going to get dropped, what about the kids, how do i get children to Health Insurance program. The complexity of our system, i hear people say the other challenge you to hear this throughout rural oregon is white or have to fight with insurance companies. So the very time youre sick and maybe are struggling with cancer or some other major disease youre studying bills trying to figure out when you pay the deductible and then shouldnt this be covered in your having to be in a fight. This stress is much higher in our system so healthcare is one piece and by the way americans on drugs, 80 of americans are ready to say we should get the same fair price than any other developed country. But congress cannot get it done, that is another sign of the damage to her institution, lobbies can exercise Critical Power to the wealthy through the majority of the senate and to the level of lobbying that mean a very fundamental problem affecting people across the spectrum, that is a tried win. Lets go to healthcare from education for Early Childhood education and trying to seek universal graduation, how can we do better on education. The u. S. Pioneered a mass education and we used to be number one in high school education, the pride in its how we became number one in terms of the economy that we actually have split over the years to number 61 in one year and we might be proving that they use different data so we might be up to number 30. So very hard for number one, what can we do, right now only one in seven and one in six students graduate from high school, thats appalling. Some states do this, require kids to stay in school until the age of 18 and hope we the graduate high school by then or we could tell them if you want a drivers license you have to be enrolled in high school, we can do things like that, its like there is no one silver bullet, theres a lot of different shots that you have to incrementally get in many different ways and its like the way we improve car driving safety. We first implement to seatbelt, i may remember when i first got a car, we do not you see both at all. But that was very dangerous, to improve safety we added seatbelts, airbags, padded dashboards, but the personal responsibility, the narrative is basically the equivalent of lets put needles inside the dashboard so you hate yourself, it will teach you a lesson. But i think what we need to do instead is adds a little Safety Measures to keep nudging these kids to stay in school. You had mentioned earlier the structure and we learned a lot about that in the book you all touch on how Early Education can have a huge multiplier effect, some studies, seven times the return for the investment and ive actually seen studies that were 42 times because they reduce prison cost and more tax reserve paid and so forth, less crimes are committed, when you see it laid out like that as you all have pointed out, shouldnt we all rush and say were going to invest a lot more on Early Childhood . Absolutely. That is the highest return of investment available in the u. S. , not some hedge fund. Just about every other country is able to provide, they can afford Early Childhood programs and i would argue the big reason to do it is the benefits to the children but also huge benefits to the parents especially singleparent in providing an inability to work. When we were raising our kids, there were two of us and we can barely figure out how to drop the kids off and pick them up and i thought how does the singleparent do it, its incredibly hard and then you mentioned a High School Graduation, keeping kids in high school, it took me back to when i was in high school it was explained students who smoke, i went to the administration and i said is this really the right thing to do, these kids are not going to get a high score education, should be something different, there are some high schools in the area, i told the ministers that decided to have a smoking room for students thinking it was better to keep them in school then graduating and they were knocking to stop the smoking habits. It was an interesting thing, but thats the point the linking is trying to find a way to keep kids engaged in school and its something you do not mention come across often that regard, when i was in my bluecollar school growing up i did not have to pay any fees for the sports, crosscountry, tennis, speech team, test team, my kids have graduated from the same school, same bluecollar school and everything has fees attached which really reduces Student Engagement and if i could wave the magic wand i would get rid of the fees to help students stay in school. I picked that the real issue. I think a ministers are caught between that these are the kids that we want to keep in school, on the other hand we need to make ends meet. If that kid is disrupting the teacher entirely so she can not teach the 20 other kids, as i could as well . It is the tightrope that the school ministers have to navigate. If we dont, how will we pay for these others at the school, they need to get we need to pay them for their time. Lets touch on two other areas that you talk about in the book, eliminating homelessness for children, the housing factor and jobs, a right to work, how do we improve in those two are areas. We know that the cost of homelessness especially for children are enormous, and impact because of the aces that we talked about earlier and homelessness, as sheryl mentioned earlier we were able to reduce bedroom homelessness by half by 2010 in 2016 because we found it unconscionable that the veterans were in the street, we found it unconscionable that America Today we have on any given night 100,000 kids who were homeless then we can reduce that, maybe we could eliminate it or dramatically reduce with some combination of voucher shelters, priority et cetera. So again it comes down to political will instead the president budget promotes housing programs. You are saying raise my taxes which isnt going to help me, to help some videos like if they figured out by themselves. Its easier to make the argument about adults, the cases these kids have not made any bad choices, they have not been responsible, there homeless because of that ovarian mockery that you mentioned earlier and we also know in the case of the Homeless Children if we do not pay at the front and we will pay at the back and many times over. If they want to save tax dollars in their interest to investigating these people housed. Is also important to point out that maybe have a mortgage deduction so youre getting a subsidy there or maybe for instance yet the case of the hedge fund mobile who paid 238 million for condo in the heart of near city and pay property taxes based on the condo of 9. 8 billion, youre getting a subsidy there. There is a lot of unevenness in our tax code and loopholes that you can drive a tractor. The tax code does all kind of subsidies to the very well off and back when i was back with habitat with him engine humanity, i knew what you were saying about the need for children to have a home is absoy right as stable home changes lie of the child. The children the first time ive been able to invite a friend over. Because i never had a place. Those children are going to contribute more in taxes and be more productive citizens. So lets make that happen. There is one last set of ideas that does not fall neatly to these four areas of education, Health Housing and jobs. That is baby bonds in a monthly child allowance. How should we look at that . Britney was able to reduce Child Poverty in half beginning in 1999 in one of the key elements they provided was child allowances, Monthly Payment that can also be done in the u. S. , theres a lot of discussion through tax credit, Michael Bennet has sponsored a bill that would do something along those lines just what every other country does of the National Academy suggested that that and some other strategies reduce it in a cost of about 100 billion a year, we can afford a 2 trillion tax cut but we cannot afford to reduce poverty by half so it reverberates in the ability maybe it keeps in their house. Maybe it enables them to keep a child to produce a pate and sports. Who knows what. We know the outcomes are better, the baby bonds, actually congress pointed and they were often called individual develop an account and they involved a payment to a child that would be in a savings account often matched and could only be used as a savings are putting in only be used for buying housing or starting a business things like this. You probably dont know this but the program and oregon, things for highlighting that in your book, it came about because habitat for humanity made a difference and then i developed rental Affordable Housing and how can people get stake in this. I had an Intern Research the idea to buy a home. So i started the ten investment programs which became and i became a state legislator in oregon has the biggest subsidy for the program in the country. And we need Bipartisan Health for a new bill. Im hoping to publicize that a lot because it was a bipartisan hand up to the three pathways from poverty to middleclass of appian education, Small Business and home ownership. So i so much appreciate you engaging in this conversation and exploring the challenges we have in america through the lens of a struggling rural community, what happens next that here there might be a film coming out associated with this book. There is a film version of typtightrope that will be outn the fall, stay tuned. What things about this that we should make sure viewers know about the experience that you have gone through examining the challenges . I think your focus on jobs was really important because i think jobs are at the heart of so much painandsuffering and certainly the ones that we interviewed in yamhill and around the rest of the country, its a common theme. So whatever policy make, job creation is key in everybody has to contribute to that. And policymakers can do and it can be very influential when it comes to job creation. Censure examination of these issues, and a broader challenge facing america reminded me very much in a way of Robert Kennedy saying look what im seeing, here in america such poverty and such stress and realizing the situations were on a par with countries that we think is so much poorer than the United States of america and cant we do better. That examination helped launch a lot of thinking towards making our country work better for all americans so thank you for exploring this, its been a pleasure to converse, it is timely in the sense were in the middle of a policy discussion that has a president ial campaign, well done. Thank you very much. This program is available as a podcast, all afterward program can be viewed at her website at booktv. Org. Now on booktv we are live with author and White House Correspondent april ryan, she is the author of the presidency and black and white, and under fire, reporting from the front line of the trump white house