Transcripts For CSPAN2 Teen Vaping Regulation Of E-Cigarettes 20240713

Year. Another was interrelated but sort of a distinct issue that we saw starting over the summer with vaping related illnesses that were beginning to emerge. We have now seen thousands injured and dozens dead from this. Thats related to illicit vaping from the use of ecigarettes. Beards and sea of those illnesses really prompted policymakers to want to respond more broadly to the vaping issues weird dealing with in the u. S. They will have to take their flavors off of the market. The other dive boat the cigarette product available, there are these devices that they have tanks that the users can refill them with liquid nicotine themselves. They tend to be more popular among adults. They are harder to conceal the products on juul. The flavor for those who continue to operate as they currently have as long as they have strict age verification in place. It is also not la favors that are obviously marketing to children. So they wouldbe able to sell things like flavors used on serial or Something Like that. So those shops will continue to operate as they normally have. President trump over the holiday break new years eve, he previewed the announcements speaking with reporters. Lets take those listen. We are stabbing out, going to be announcing very shortly. Some people already know about what they are doing. We have to protect our families. At the same time we want to protect the industry. As you know will be taking all of all of the flavors for certain period of time. Survivors. We will protect our families, our children, and will protect the industry. Hopefully if everything will be very quickly back onto the market. So the flavors will come off, the going to be checked, want to make, people have died from this. They have died from vaping. We think we understand why. What will doing a very exhaustive examination and hopefully everything will be back on the market very shortly. They think can be good for them standpoint if you look at the ecigarettes, you stopped smoking. If you stop smoking, that is a big advantage. We think are going do you get it back on the market very quickly but, we have to protect the children, we have to protect the families. At the same time, we have a very big industry. And we will take care of the industry. Were going to show you put some of President Trump news public deliberations on the issue a little bit later. I know though part of the House Oversight subcommittee hearing, from july. Will hear from High School Students and their parents and two of the High School Student say that a rep. Of the ecigarette company juul, in a presentation to their ninth greg classroom. This is the ecigarette are totally safe. Im Meredith Brockman and i represent parents against vaping ecigarette. We call it a pretty Grassroots Group founded over a year ago by three concerned bombs. We already have groups of activated parents across the country from california to new york and places in between. We have people with us here today from texas, from georgia, virginia, new york, new jersey, etc. Michael fenner and dorian are becoming and they are members of our families between us we have nine kids between the ages of seven to 19. Along with our here, weve created cave in response to the dueling epidemic. It seems to come out of nowhere. Yet experts considered one of the most serious adolescent Public Health crisis our country has faced for decades. Our goal today is to give voice to the 3. 6 million teens who are vaping. Most of them chilling. This most recent figure from the cec, is already updated. As you said, between 2017, and 2018, there is a 79 percent rise in the use of these products by High School Students at a 48 percent rise in use by middle school students. And experts believe that the new figures will likely be much higher because nothing has or havent to have them go down. We are from desperate parents every day who [applause] us seeking resources and information and help for their juul dependent nicotine addicted kids. And theyve not yet any fda approved treatment for this kind of teen nicotine addiction. I will share the bar very briefly want to stars because they are heartbreaking. They come from every state rep. Here. And probably every state people in this room. In massachusetts, our advocate christian is seeking about her son hockey player. Describe how he developed a cough and complained he was not able to breathe while skating. He became distant, moody and irritable and has extreme found a finger. Every come, they the people and important. It turns out that he has restricted lung disease. He needs inhalers and oral steroids. Hes been smoking a pipe and day. The equivalent of more than a pack of cigarettes a day for years. For three years. Kelly kinard from North Carolina is here with her son look up. Addiction was so severe that he its been 39 days as an inpatient rehab in california. He said, we began leaving with a stranger. Her straight a student dropped to an f. It was the extreme anger, it turns out our 14 yearold had a Substance Abuse problem and that substance was juul. And i want to share a personal story in the story of how juul went after our kids and their friends. By coming into their schools. That went out the knowledge of the school or of us concerned parents, juul sent a rep. To talk to our kids about its product on the guise of their education. On april 3rd, 20 something, within 15 yearold son caleb was here, told us there had been an anti addiction talk at school for the ninth greg. The teachers left the room, and the man named allie, give a confusing talk about juul. Ellingham it was not for kids before he else. There was much safer than cigarettes in the fda would approve it any day. Would i was done, caleb and his friends, went up to talk to him. La repeated the juul was for adults, not kids. And he took out the sleek looking juul and saw the boys how it worked and called it the iphone. And that is would my moms decided to fight back. We discovered a few months before that her kids will generally at home right on our noses. Thats also very common. It doesnt mean you are a bad parent if your kids are doing. It is set stuff by design. Would in the 19 was harmful to our kids brains, and as we researched and put these together, we learned that juul Deceptive Behavior seem to be part of this marketing strategy. In california, a retired School Superintendent was offering schools in estate in massachusetts, money if they would implement anti juul curriculum. They were offering harvard was offering it on joels behalf. We came across the stanford medical schools tobacco prevention skoal school kit with a disclaimer that we immediately realized was referenced juul taking information. It shouldnt have been taking it. And at this is surprising. As i said juul, is self by design. Juul says it no longer news restocks result orders that the flavors that have been proven to target kids yet just the other day, and one block radius in two different stores, i was able to buy these mental im sorry, these mango pods, the juul says are no longer on the market. But they are still online. And that is the problem. If juul really wants to slow the epidemic and keep your kids im starting they will immediately remove your son philip just stated he was addicted to juul. How does his addiction impact the family. Is difficult at first he didnt understand what was going on a sneak young 14 yearold, even in semi Different Things from cooking to his little sister. And i started to find these flash drives and these green plastic caps in his pockets. I didnt really know what it was a first. He kept staying that they belong to a friend. And we have fights about it and id pick out what it was because i googled the name of the side and was difficult. He changed kind of overnight. He its been a lot of time in the in his room in the dark. He became moody. Would a very contentious relationship. I became very suspicious obviously. And i think he didnt really understand whats going on for himself. Inevitably. Tune i think it dorian. Now let me recognize Ranking Member for five minutes of question questioning. Thank you chairman. Im curious at the reaction. Im assuming your approach the school board and the principal, what was the reaction. The school had no idea that the outside group had brought the juul rep. Into the school. The school had no idea. This hundred group printed. We believe that the outside group was naive. Definitely but in good faith. Because would i called to ask about this presentation, the staffer went to the phone and said you went to the phone and you can write person. I was researching the anti juul Education Online and i came across the name of a woman named julie henderson. She was listed then on the juul website as a youth prevention coordinator. And that she called. This woman, ms. Henderson said i have the perfect person. And sent allie. Thank you. Could you explain the difference from a health perspective, i guess between a traditional cigarette and ecigarette. There are many differences. Traditional cigarettes, consists of a preparation of tobacco leaves, which would burned, create smoke and contains roughly 7000 different chemicals and most of which are not good for the human body. He cigarettes contain far fewer ingredients. In addition to the nickname, usually Something Like propylene and glycerol which are commonly found ingredients for example in food. And it simply brings also. And this in general, is the difference in terms of the number of compounds and the cigarettes received. They make the ecigarettes in general, safer although they probably can. From product to product. A lot of the safety of these cigarettes depends on temperature control so if for example, products have adequate temperature control, they tend to be less toxic. Weve known cigarettes for a while cause cancer. Im talking about prevention. I remember third greg staying a monk sitting in a jar. And it was somebody would pass away from cigarette use. Guess what im im trying do you get is what is the health of conventional side of it what is the Health Effects of the nicotine side. That is actually an importa important. To raise. If we look at nicotine in and of itself, and has brought riskfree but it is probably a lot less toxic than compared to the other chemicals that come out of cigarette smoke. So for example, nicotine probably does not cause cancer. It may have some small effect on existing cardiovascular disease and so forth. The brain might have to adapt to having a drug on board. In the adaptations are true for any drug. Let the nicotine itself has brought the culprit would it comes to things like have cancers release as far as we know how they develop. We seem to have a competing set of facts here. We have data that shows teeny cigarette use has gone up. None of the lot. And you mentioned that a lot of that is transitional or is it new use. I guess, if you can kind of clarify a little bit for us to have a better understanding of what is new use and what is transitional use. That is an important question. I dont think we have a good handle on you because a lot of the surveys that we look at are what are called prospect meaning that is a slice and time. We see kids the report to us whether using one or two days. Our every day. And what we need are studies attract kids over time to actually see whether ones who are starting out, one or two days go on to use more. Once again, we dont know what the real implications are of these different patterns of use. I want to emphasize and share the concern that kids shouldnt be trying these products and they shouldnt be using them. They certainly shouldnt be using them on a frequent basis. The cdc data shows a huge use over 2 million american High School Students and hundreds of thousands of middle school students. A fraction of them of course experiment and others become regular users. I do want to touch a sneak physician on the helpfulness of vaping. We start smoking today, it is 20 or 30 or 40 years before you get emphysema or lung cancer. Nobody knows what it does to human lung debris three then and out of glycerin over and over. It is an experiment frankly. We will find out years from now the results. The flavor industry, those that the compounds that we put into our food, that are safe in the intestinal tract, would everything meant, for example the plastic will classic example is microwaved butter popcorn. The compounds in the industrial setting because rick severe restrictive lung disease. We are taking a wide variety of these ecigarette industry has taken up flavored chemicals, thousands of different ones, cotton candy and cookie flavors mixed in with this glycol and exposed over and over in the lungs. We just dont know yet the longterm results. And there is no doubt in my mind the vaping is safer than conventional smoking. So that doesnt mean it is safe. Thank you mr. Cloud. I now recognize congresswoman for five minutes of questioning. Thank you so much mr. Chairman. I want to take all of the witnesses thank them for being here. I can sense your frustration a sneak mother, i just want you to know the being here just for seven months and hearing and i dont call it, rhetoric, just to discredit a lot of the things are pushing for. I want you to know that you have the truth on your side and just be stronger for that. We dont anymore studies. We already know the truth here. And in a few years after joe was founded in 2015, and dominated the park market. Through targeted advertising campaign. This seems to be a screaming strategy is juul now accounts for 796 percent of the u. S. Ecigarette market. That is simply staggering. But i find it troubling is that in the same timeframe, the rate of teen nicotine addiction skyrocketed. The cdc found 795 percent increase in ecigarette use among High School Students from 2017 to 2018. A sneak coincidence to me that team to use ecigarettes excuse the exclusively referred to the activity of dueling. You study jeweled marketing practices since the Company Started in 2015. Based on your expertise, should juul have been aware its Marketing Campaign would appeal to youth and teens. Absolutely. Huge teenage fans, dont happen by accident. The beatles and beanie babies, or products a very clever promotional activities and so is juul. So juul engaged which are professional and they understand very well the difference between marketing and baby boomers like newspapers and radio and broadcast tv, and jens ayers who set all day long on their phones looking at social media. Now ad agencies, follow the instructions of their clients. They dont work independently. They certainly, the company knew very well would it shows to use instagram who bit heavy as users are. Is the underage youth by and large. In the inside report from the New York Times validates it. So i dont think there is any question that juul new that his actions will perpetuating the use of epidemic thats happening in juul. Your professor at stanford, the same founders. Have you met the founders printed. Yes, i met james if my both owners. He was quite interesting. He thanked us for the database that we have of 50000 traditional tobacco ads online. He said they were very helpful as they designed jewels advertising. In this truck so much that is the seven of us left the two hour meeting, was a very first thing we talked about how surprising it was that he indicated in juul was grounded in traditional advertising and in fact we know very well having studied tobacco advertising, that jewels marketing safely read can speculate the methods used by Tobacco Industry to talk. Our young people and that includes our barrel, they closely emulated the american spirit in the direct derivatives in juul advertising. A. Thank you. So juul News Mission Statement asserts that improve the lives of world news 1 billion adult smokers. Do jewels marketing practices which you have studied for years, along with that stated. Known for its first three and half years. On the fourth year, at that. , would already that you fed was raging, their ads became more calibrated to adult audience and the channels of the used as well. They have now switched campaigns to pick that middleaged and older adults, its an printed newspaper and on television and no longer promoting on social media. There is only in this holy happen, long after it was a youth epidemic and it was because of the unwanted intense attention by regulators and also interesting late as mr. Has pointed out would we visited with him, they were concerned about their investors. Particularly with National Companies Like Fidelity it was an early investor who certainly didnt want to be associated with products and will widely seen to profits. Last November Juul deleted instagram and facebook as you can to but there explosion of the marketing had already had an impact on youth. We continue to see the influence on kids on social media today. So juul taking off his own marketing didnt take all of their castings off and hashtag juul alone, in the first three years and five months, 22015 to november 2018, about a quart of a million mostly by young people hashtag juul. It is double now to over half a million. I really do appreciate that but before chairman, it is important to know, what astounded me the most is that the deleted Facebook Instagram but jewels at twitter followers, half of them, or on the age of 18. And i might say, just because you delete them, doesnt mean it never happened. It. No, thank you so much. A. A few moments ago we heard from a medical School Professor who testified the jewels advertising was based on the early advertising of the cigarette industry. The next day, juul executive denied that. My name is john james. I founded juul. Its a cheap product officer that company. Sheep product officer. Im really great grateful to be here today. Adam and i began, the two juul system. We will clear in our goals. Help improve the lives of adult smokers and we are proud of the progress weve made towards that goal. We never wanted any nicotine user and certainly nobody on age to ever use juul products. The dating barely shows a significant number, and theyre doing so. This is he serious problem. Somebody with no higher priorities than to hike this. To understand our stance on vaping, it is simple to understand how this company has been displaced. Adam and i spoke, which we try to quit and failed. We will on the way to becoming one of the nearly 500,000 americans die each year from smoking related disease. For us giving up smoking regarding alternative which did not exist at the time we founded juul labs. The product we developed promised but no Previous Technology has done. How to help adult smokers, stop smoking combustible cigarettes in a widespread and consistent basis. Recent behavioral studies find that more than half of adult smokers who purchase and use juul products, which completely from smoking cigarettes within six months. The fact we could not be more proud of. That study aligns with realworld experience. In 2018, cigarettes felt declined 5 percent. The fastest rate of decline, in a decade. Mr. Chairman, put simply, juul isnt big tobacco. We are here to eliminate its product. The cigarette. Enter difference from manufacturers is fundamental. First our product does not involve burning tobacco. 7000 chemicals, at least 200250 of which are known to be harmful. To product do contain nicotine which is addictive but not directly responsible for the many diseases associated with smoking. Public Health Authorities such as Public Health england, has concluded that vaping is he fraction of the risk of smoking. At least 95 percent harmful, less harmful and is negligible risk of bystanders. Second, our companies incentives are totally different from those of Tobacco Companies. Traditional Cigarette Companies face a saturated concentrated Global Market. Juul labs on the other hand has reached 0. 3 percent of the Global Market and 1 billion smokers and 79 percent of them want to quit actively. Our incentive is to help them achieve their goals of transitioning from cigarettes. It is an astonishing Business Opportunity no doubt but is he historic opportunity for Public Health. Underage use of a product has brought admissible. It imperils it. And third unlike cigarette manufacturers, our companies swiftly acknowledges that upon Public Health data. We embrace appropriate regulation. We have acted voluntarily to restrict our own practices and services of Public Health goals. These actions included unilaterally, seeking sales of certain products to Retail Stores. Investing our own funds to read drive retail compliance and proactively advocating for raising the legal age to buy our products. We believe if the steps we have already taken to go in the category wide standards to go a long way to driving down underage access and usage of paper products. Mr. Chairman, we are prepared to do more. We have met with many of our start sharp as critics. And thought the suggestions for how we can improve. We remain open to their input. We are committed to cooperating with this committee and attorney general and other officials who wish to examine our practices. We are dedicated to learning from our mistakes and not repeating them. In doing so, we hope to earn the trust of this committee, congress, regulators, our customers and the american public. Were grateful for the opportunity to discuss these important topics and look forward to answering your questions. Yesterday sir doctor robert jaccard, a professor from stanford university, testified on oath before this subcommittee that you confirm to him, they reviewed stanfords Online Library of cigarette advertising and found it quote and this is in his sworn testimony very helpful as you designed juul advertising. And he did in fact meet with doctor jekyll, didnt you printed. I did. But i did not make that statement him. Okay sir, you are on oath oath and you are denying that you made that statement to doctor jekyll news appropriateness. I think it on fortunately, he may have misheard my commentary. In fact the resource that he compiled is he useful resource. Back would adam and i will at sanford. We will very interested in understanding more about the Historical Data actions as Tobacco Companies. At that. We will very interested in using his research to understand exactly what that action is the Tobacco Company is taken. To familiarize ourselves with how not to around the business. See or deny his name and on oath. I like to quote his assertion put in in context. Please show advertisement one. Sir, these images that you see an advertisement one, they contain a few different images. I never hear is he picture of mar barrels trade. In the middle, is the original juul design they came up with. And then on the far right, is the most recent juul design. Now early on in your advertising, you entered into a settlement with Phillip Morris and in a board set aboard the minutes from august 12, 2016 that you produced to us, it says quote do to an frontline in a pmi settlement, we removed all juul branding uses triangles and diamond shapes. Pmi is an international flight. This wreck. And you settled a lawsuit and think you copied. Is that correct pretty. How much did you pay as part of the settlement. Sewing involved no exchange of money but required that you abandoned the trying angles and diamonds which are very similar to mongrels trade. Is that correct. Weight never designed the product to look anything like my girl. Do you divide denied that they look similar printed. I do deny that you are comparing with all due respect, you are comparing a piece of packaging to a piece of product hardware. Theres never any intent. That was the last thing we wanted to be confused with any major Tobacco Company. Supported minutes site due to requirements outlined in pretty my settlement we have removed all juul running that uses triangles and diamond shapes. Do you deny that that was what was said to near 40 minutes. It. I do not deny that printed we would request that you provide the subcommittee with a pmi Settlement Agreement within two weeks. Would you do that please. Hud do you get back to you on that. I dont see why that wouldbe a problem but ill check with my colleagues. Right will subpoena if that is required. Doctor jack clark testified that marvelous quote the leading use initiation cigarette. Soren fortunately said something that juul shows my belt to amber. Please go to n2. Lets look at the flavors highlighted in the sand. As you can see on the right, are the mongrel products depicted in advertisement and on the left are the juul products. You notice there are the colors are very similar between the two companies products. In one very interesting thing that i would like to. Out is the flavors. Lets talk about the flavors per second. We have met, crimped, mango, and Virginia Tobacco. Sir, which labor is currently juul news topselling flavor. Currently after weve pulled voluntarily all of our flavor the products of of market, another only available on your website. With energy age verification. The topselling product i believe is meant products. Charlie followed by Virginia Tobacco printed this right. Meant accounts for about 794 percent of your company ne news. Images of flavor obviously. Meant is he mental based product intended to appeal to consumers that are using mental based cigarettes. Is he mental based flavor correct. Is he mental based flavored, yes is correct. Can you please put up slide three. Three of. You took out a fullpage ad in the washington post. Taking flavored products out of stores, i think thats what you alluded to a moment ago. The problem here that i see is that you left what you called the mental based flavors in the stores correct. Such as met. Is correct. And so meant, it is still a flavor that is available overthecounter in the stores. And according to the 2016, 2017, appellation assessment for tobacco health, 96. 1 percent of 12 to 17 yearold started with a flavored product. Additionally sounds like the 97 percent of current use youth ecigarette users is he flavored ecigarette in the past month. Since meant. Flavors for kids. I know you say you took on the flavors out of the stores, you left them at flavor. Mr. Chairman, with all do respect, i think it what you will find, is that the art on president actions that we took. We heard these concerns and i agree with you that we should be concerned. And ever since we per first for these concerns, we look to ourselves, that went out new regulation coming in and imposed upon us, we took this action in and of a ourselves. The products that we pulled from market, the flavored products that we pulled, represented 50 percent of our business at the time. I can a nudge in a more responsive and proactive step we can take to exactly the mic you are making. But we do pulled on the flavors off the market, meant took the place. Meant is he flavor and it took the place of all of the other flavors. Do you disagree with that. I do. Unfortunately was mostly taking the place of pulling those products off of the market is illegal products. Art is meant in your stores are not pretty. It is. This quality to know. Is he flavor, a flavored product, it is still in the stores. With that, i will now recognize breaking member and more for five minutes of questioning. Thank you. Sweet have you here. Do you feel the juul has ever purposefully used deceptive Marketing Tactics to convey that their products are not harmful. No, never. What was the purpose of creating pretty flavored pods. The purpose of flavors is to create more efficacious solution in the mission of this company is to eliminate or improve the lives of the million adult smokers around the world. Would the 79 percent of those people want to quit. There a number of tools that we use as we will designing the juul platform in the first place. An empathetic research with smokers where we can see opportunities to make a product that could be geared to make cigarettes obvious obsolete. And we see in studies in plenty of studies that we have around now, is he flavored product over index on switching efficacy, and i said in my Opening Statement that about 54 percent of adult smokers pickup juul unusual, quit smoking entirely after six month. And more importantly the number continues to go up as well as more longitudinally. The number is much higher by as much as 30 percent. And with us consumers have access to flavored products. That is our intent. It. To essentially created the company to disrupt the cigarette industry. Smoking cigarettes is he leading cause of preventable death. Feels all of us 500,000 americans every year. Pentecostals are billion dolla dollars. [screaming]. Are you concerned by the number of teenagers to report vaping or using juul. I why not be more concerned about that. Was your product ever intended for underage use. No. Absolutely not. 100 percent not. See you never intended on set product having the rights of on age usage. Unfortunately the long history of tobacco is also the long history of underage use of those Tobacco Products. As long as they have been available, underage consumers have access to this products and use them often times, pretty much for always illegally. I was one of those on age youth. I bought them illegally and an estimate a lot of investment in the way that we control access to those products. In building these products not only, and imperils the business, and what we really need to do is work with hopefully this committee, every Tobacco Research analyst possible, everyone we can get her hands on, to help us create industrywide practices. We are trying to prove with those practices should be. What they really can be. So preventing on age usage is he priority for juul predicts that there is no higher priority for this Company Printed so what steps are you taking to prevent this. Sure, as mentioned earlier, last year in november of 2018, and going back even further than that. We take in escalated steps as we have learned about these problems. Unfortunately most of the criticism that we have received doesnt come directly to the company while we welcome that. And we would love to work more directly with people that have critiques of the company. And we have the criticism, we take this extremely seriously and we take action. So those escalating steps really move through one that i want to highlight in november of 2018, we pulled over 50 percent of our revenue off of the market proactively. There is nothing that required us to do that. But we will hearing a lot of critique about flavored products and we left them on the market was tobacco based in mental based product. It just the same white the cigarettes exist on the market. The mass one last question. Have you been working with fda to institute any changes to the Regulatory Environment to prevent youth use of your products. There have been some conversation of the fda have taken up with us and provided some guidance in particular veteran surveys and understand how we want to better understand the usage, it is very difficult for us to study youth directly. One of the ways in which we have had the most valuable positive relationship with the md a the star was just getting guidance from them on how we can better study the youth usage. Thank you, time is expired. On take your time is today in good faith. You are taking the epidemic of youth ecigarette use seriously. And firstly there is so much evidence to the contrary. I hope you can offer me some answers. And some clarity. Would a product is the market. They contain between per milliliter of liquid. Remove the harshness and bad taste of nicotine and then triple the nicotine content over existing products making juul the most put ecigarette on the market. In the uk have stacked per milliliter of liquid, and a third of your u. S. Product. With that, you do still sell a product in the e. U. And uk correct. You we do. Spak thats your israel had contacted calling juul, higher nicotine product a grave danger to Public Health. Jewels 59milligram ram per milligram product was already in the market there pretty re recalled that product and entered the market in israel with a 20milligram milliliter product correct printed. Product. So obviously juul can still make money la a product and less dangerous nicotine levels. So yes no, do you think that a 20milligram per milliliter juul can accomplish your stated mission of helping adult smokers to quit smoking conventional cigarettes. Let me provide a little bit of context there. It not that much, if you can answered me briefly. I understand. So the first concentration the g about right now, was mimic but not to exceed the curvature printed i generally just want a clear answered up can you achieve your stated mission of helping develop smokers of using a 20 milligram product. We would love to try. We are already trying and every country accept this one. Juul often cites a uk study for the proposition ecigarette may help the people quit smoking. You fail to mission the participants in the study will using liquids below 20 milligrams or milliliter number and nowhere near the 59th loophole in the u. S. Products. In the late last year it was recorded the juul began developing upon that would comply with 20milligram per milliliter cap, but would also increase the voltage and temperatures of the device and therefore deliver more ticketing to the well have. Is that accurate. Im not sure what you are referring to with voltage and temperature. The actual delivery device where you are increasing the voltage and the temperature of the device instead of having as 59milliliter cap, you would have go down to 20 and you deliver a more potent Delivery System of nicotine into the bloodstream. Is that accurate. I am not sure. Im not aware. If you could answered that question for the record i would appreciate that. It is mind boggling that you dont know the answered. Are you aware this could make a pod assuming his car, even more addictive tightening the risk of them people if that will the case. If we will to increase the voltage. And the temperature at which the liquid is delivered. Our products are quite notably temperature controlled and will the only product in the market. We would never increase the temperature of the product. Of you if you are staying this are correct, i want do you get the answered. Your actions speak differently than developing products that technically comply wildman no plating the delivery seems to disregard the attempt to the law. You appear to be marketing yourself a sneak mark smoking sensation device yet you are not fda approved for that purpose. Fda approved Smoking Cessation product enclosed instructions. For stabbing down nicotine intake. Mr. D mr. Product and pump these instructions. As to it does not and we would not market it is a sensation product. Let me be very clear, juul has brought a cessation product. See you dont market, that is news to me. And probably everyone in this room that juul has brought marketing yourselves as an nicotine or a Smoking Cessation product. So that is every other vaping product except yours. Would you have any problem keeping them a sneak customer for live. Is somebody starting on juul played in only as you product is he Smoking Cessation tool, you just want people to be addicted to nicotine soap for their entire lives. Its been a capsule and operated 79 percent of the world 1 billion smokers want to stop smoking. Immediately. The most important thing that they can do to improve their live expectancy is to move away from cigarettes. Now that is the stage that we are at right now. Bill does a great job. Is it correct that 35 percent of your company. City consider yourself a part of big tobacco parade. I consider traditional tobacco is he major investor in our company. Actions speak louder than words. They give. In the last segment we heard from congresswoman debbie wasnt mitchells about her legislation on vaping credit joining us, but covers healthcare. Would the major issues congress is considering for regarding vaping. One of the prospects britney ecigarette legislation in 2020. So theres a lot of bills in congress right now and most of them from democrats but significant republicans have signed on as well. But theyre moving in congress right now is about to limit more access flavored. And it really require any Company Wants to sell a flavor to ecigarette products, to prove that the flavor is essential for the product to help and indulge for the adult to switch from a traditional cigarette. In a show that the product is in the risk for youth starting nicotine in the first place. Which could be a difficult proposition for any cigarette maker to prove. Because that is such a tough standard to me, the backers of the kind of legislation think that it will effectively stand or fan flavors from the market. Thanks and will hear little bit more from the hearing. Will hear a little bit more from jim gordon watching one of jewels cofounders. Event a Product Consumer news like go to. Certainly. If i understand story right, you and your friend and young people sitting on the college and you said, will going to develop a product, would like to try to develop a product that is much less harmful than traditional cigarettes and they could actually be a way do you get people away from smoking traditional cigarettes. And you should do that right. That is correct. A. He developed the product and we do develop the product and started marketing the product, if you follow the law. We did, absolutely. He didnt break any laws. I think it said good 79 percent growth in market share over the past year. Sounds about right. Good this amazing product that you developed. A tremendous market share. And you follow the law of the entire you have the growth. A sneak right. I believe so. You follow the law, developed a product that people want. Take away from our home for all product product you can actually get you off of nicotine altogether. And somehow you are a terrible guy. This is he very complex company. In a large part, empathetically, on a really express that i dont is my favorite thing has brought to be here today. I dont mind because this is extremely important and i very much understand the skepticism. This is an industry that has been around for is it too long. Time and we have changing that to products that are delivered from innovative people and from Company Stores one her percent committed to changing the fabric of this market to eliminating cigarettes for good. And we are staying that these tools actually work. Would you not and i think this was stated chairman extremely well at the very beginning. We dont want any on aged consumers using this product. We need to Work Together to make sure that no underage consumer use this product and is terrible for business and Public Health and for reputation. None of this is good stuff. We want do you get on to the business of eliminating secrets and saving lives. Even though you follow the law, theres something that took place during this growth time that you are now changing is that right. You are no longer marketing on social media platforms that right. Thats correct. In your placing limits on the quantity and types of things that can be sold at pellets is that right printed. This card. Even though you follow the luckily dont have to make the changes, you said for reputational concern, use the company has mayday decision to do those two things printed. Not just for that reason alone. For young people. An example they still stated this earlier no sign again. Actions that we are taking and we are trying to lead by example. Will trying to show that we are willing to take an independent action if need it to protect young people from access to these products. In the standards will adopted on the industrywide basis. This required on industrywide basis, it could stop these counterfeit products from anchoring the product market. In the event the companies that will willing to do this on productive bases will held accountable to the same, then we would be looking at substantially lower usage numbers. How many people work for juul pretty. 3000. It. You provide those jobs and you develop a product, a sneak way to an alternative to more harmful judicial cigarettes, a sneak way to help people move off of traditional cigarettes and hopefully stop smoking altogether an amazing product that now has gotten 79 percent 796 percent growth in market share, employee 3000 people, youve made some decisions maybe early on he decided to change just to make sure young people likely of the audience dont have access to your products like savvy marketing on social media platforms and limiting quantity that can be sold at retail access pretty to publicly come out state you dont think anybody should be using these including your own, until they are 21. And at the rate more in the reward for all of that as you get yield at by democrats and brought before congress. I think its just an incredibly important mission. And 3000 people now, ive never met more Mission Oriented group of folks than the people come here. We know there is a lot of stigma historically in this industry. We know that it is easy to assume that we are tobacco twopoint oh. But will quite the opposite. We just heard jewels cofounders take credit for voluntarily removing flavored ecigarette other than menthol from store shelves. Let the head of the American Vaping Association says flavored ecigarette should remain on the market. Prudent suite flavors fda Research Shows that they are the most used product by adults printed despite the sink that the flames just exist to target youth. Flavors will actually invented in this place because consumers back in 2009, and 2010, long before the Tobacco Industry ever even saw ecigarettes will viable. They demanded flavors. They started creating their own so the industry responded. And in fact, users of tobacco flavorsome adult users will actually more likely to still be smoking because tobacco flavors are simply for what it cigarette taste like. That actually leaves people to continue to smoke. So prudent suite flavors, not just popular among adults but by far most popular among adults who have fully switch. In september President Trump appeared in the oval office with the help and Human Services secretary and the head of the food and Drug Administration to announce plans to man flavored ecigarette. And nobody knows too much about it. But they do know its causing a lot of problems. And we are going to have to do something about it. One of the words in one of the reasons we are meeting today is to let you know that its out there. And we want to have parents understand, that we are studying it very carefully. It is again very new, and potentially very bad. There have been deaths and there have been a lot of other problems. People think its an easy solution to cigarettes, but its turned out it has its own difficulties. So i am going to ask the secretary a czar to say a few words, and then if i could, acting director of the fda, youve been doing a fantastic job i want to thank you. And we want to discuss the situation. Not only is it a problem over all, but really specifically with respect to children. We are getting stories that we dont want to hear. And we may very well have to do something very, very strong about it. So if i could ask you mr. Secretary to say a few words. Thank you, mr. President. So we briefed to the president and the first lady today on yet undisclosed new data we have from the National Youth Tobacco Survey. This information showed a continued surging and adolescent usage of e cigarettes. It also shows that the youth are drawn to flavored east cigarettes. Including mint and menthol. Currently about 8 million adults use the cigarettes, but 5 million children are using e cigarettes. This is exceptionally harmful to our children. An entire generation of children becoming addicted to nicotine because of the attractiveness, appealability, and availability of these vaping products. So with the president supports, the food and Drug Administration intends to finalize a guidance document that would commence enforcement to require that all flavors, other than tobacco flavor, would be removed from the market. This would include mint and menthol flavoring as well as candy flavors, bubblegum flavors, fruit flavor, alcohol flavor, you get the drift. So once the fda would finalize this guidance, we would begin Enforcement Actions to remove these from the marketplace. We would allowed tobacco flavoring to remain, subject to their filing. The manufacturing of the cigarette flavored tea products filing for premarket tobacco approval with the food and Drug Administration. To assure that the availability of their product is consistent with what set forth by the act. Other products that would be removed from the market would apply under the similar regulatory pathway for approval that would have to be standard. But i want to caution that with the president support, while we would allow the tobacco flavored e cigarettes to remain on the market. They would be available for adults who are seeking to stop the use of combustible tobacco. If we find that children are being attracted to cigarette flavored e cigarettes if we find that manufacturers are marketing the tobacco flavored east cigarettes to children or placing them in places they will get them. We will take enforcement action there also. Let me turn it over to doctor ned who is the head of the Drug Administration. Thank you for mr. Sec. The data gathered is as described, it shows a very concerning calming alarming trend of use by children. For these flavored ecigarette products. The president is directing the fda to take Decisive Action against this problem. As we finalize our plan that we have been working on. This would have the effect of the secretary mentioned of severely curtailing access to flavored ecigarette products which we believe drive childhood use. And will help us get a handle on this alarming and concerning trend. And i will say the commissioner has been working on this very hard, but he is now going to double and triple up. We are looking at very strong rules and regulations. We arty have laws as we need them. But we want to get to the bottom of a very unusable situation. It is so new it has come so big so fast, and it could be a potential severe problem. So commissioner you know what to do, it is something that frankly should have been looked into a few years ago in a much more advanced way. It wasnt and we have something that will be very interesting to see what turns up. But you will be able to report back in the fairly near future because you have a lot of work on this and we will see what happens. Yes i will get right on it. President trump in september said his administration would report back on rules for flavored cigarettes. At roll call we talked about the announcement for the administration what has happened since the september announcement by President Trump in addition to that announcement in early january. Have they come out with additional rules . Will they come out the additional rules . There is been an evolution of the administration is thinking since the initial september announcement. At the time they said they would clear the market entirely of flavors with no exceptions. What they ended up doing, in the end was making exceptions for the vape shops that are selling more adult oriented products, and for menthol flavors. They said they did this because as they got more data back from the 2019 surveys, it showed that among youth, the most popular products were jewel and other potter cartridge based devices that are the main target of this new flavor policy. In that the most popular flavors with things like mint, mango, and other fruit flavors while a very small percentage of High Schoolers were reporting tobacco or menthol flavors as their preferred flavor of choice. So thats why they decided to exempt those two flavors. There is some fear that young people will continue to use jewel just with the tobacco or menthol flavors. But on the other hand, fewer kids that were starting them because of the appeal of fruit flavors or would otherwise be less interested. They also wanted to preserve the menthol flavored option for the adults who use products like this because Menthol Cigarettes are Still Available and they would still rather steer adults toward using vapor products rather than combustible cigarettes in the first place. In november President Trump held a meeting with representatives from the vaping industry and from Public Health groups. Here are some of that now. The one thing i see though as you watch prohibition you look at the alcohol and you look at cigarettes. If you dont give it to them, its going to come here illegally. They are going to make it. But instead of these companies legitimate companies and Good Companies making something safe, they are going to be selling stuff on the Street Corner thats going to be horrible. Thats the one problem i cannot seem to forget. [inaudible] you have to look at the history of it. And now instead of having the flavor thats at least safe, they are going to be having the flavor thats poison. Thats a big problem. [background noises] theres a very large Cigarette Companies but most of the members of our trade association are small momandpop shops, they are small manufacturers and Small Businesses who built this industry from the ground up. Not for the top down. And we say we have to as you said this is complicated so you need a sophisticated plan. A flavor band will not work. Critical reasons why it wont work is because people will go to the black market. Thats because adults are demanding more from these flavors. Okay you just ended your flavoreds. Isnt going to be just so illegally somebodys can open up a shop in china and ship it in with flavors and you dont know what standards yet . Is that a problem . You can buy 15 different types that have been off the market. [inaudible] its product being made elusive lee. We have china counterfeit products on the market today. What were focused on is enforcing to get these off the prop market. What is it called . Counterfeit products that we are not producing on the market today. The issue is we just dont know. We have 3 million kids that are addicted. Separate from lung disease 5. 3 million kids a day are using these products repetitively with addiction. Since the flavors have been introduced, we have seen an immediate rise in the use by kids. We went from no increase whatsoever, four flavors were marketed so heavily, the number one flavor of ecigarette on the market was tobacco flavor. We are not talking about removing all of these. What we are talking about doing is removing the flavors that have fueled the efforts among our kids. I understand what youre saying, but im saying if we take those flavors wont they just be bathed illegally and may be unsafe . What you will see, his last year we saw a million and a half more kids become addicted. We can close that onramp. You said it correctly in september. Former commissioner said the same thing, we can close the on ramp as long as flavors are illegal. People need flavors in order to do it. [inaudible] most adults are not good news flavors. [inaudible] but they are using flavors today they are going to go back to using the flavor of the product that almost killed them. 92 of my revenues flavors. We are different companies. Is of the largest . Over 9000 over 70 of that Tobacco Survey from friends and family 18 years and older. Only 8. 4 . [inaudible] 10000 stores, the kids are overwhelmingly able to get these because there are 10000 stores with those flavors. [inaudible] its very important because its very real. Separate and apart from the Convenience Stores in the gas stations were kids typically frequents, there is a whole separate distribution chain thats come up. Its a vape shop that is supplied by a distributor that is supplied by manufacturer. And this is the new vape. [inaudible] these issues were brought forth last week and said yes kids get there vapes nono stores theres 15. 5 of non specific get there vape from a vape shop. Because the number one Retail Stores in the same study, it also said that these kids are refused only 25 of the time. If a vape shop is going to sell. [inaudible] were just changing who is selling the illegal products. We need to punish people that do that. There has to be much better compliance records. We sell a lot of age restricted products, and as i said earlier beer, lottery tickets, and vapor products and cigarettes. It is vitally important to our members to do age restrictive product checks properly. And thats one of the reasons where compliance rates are much better than others. And with flavor or without flavor, its anything anything restricted, we take it very, very seriously. I think this whole debate over flavor, you know half of the audience here firmly believes there are some strong evidence that fave flavors help adults cigarette smokers to reduce their risk. There are also a huge concern about youth being attracted to vapor because of the flavors. We got to double down and do really well. [inaudible] on the data came in its a serious problem and we have to act quickly and remove the flavors. So you think the flavors are . We saw the youth data without the responsible thing to do as a leader in the industry is remove those flavors. s i think we should remove the flavors . I think we should there are Business Model that we can build an adult audience of smokers without creating a new audience of youth users. We demonstrated with the data over the last 12 months. We are the top company in the country that the hundred and 46000, weve had 29 violations weve had 60 times more violations over the other company they sell three times more product than us. Its because of the way we have implemented self Police Policies that limit the use. Nobody can selection a honestly tell you you can permanently eliminate youth use. What we are focused on during mr. President is getting back to science based target. We are going to fully support the fda in this process. Flamers have demonstrated playing an Important Role in an adult to make an important choice which is to put down a cigarette that they cannot quit and switched to a product that has less risk. We think the argument is very important and thats it were focused on. The people at the fda is most appropriate. So you think youre okay that you essentially have it unflavored. I think we made the right decision and we are looking forward to following that. The number one most product is a mango. They are an issue they are attracting kids. Weve got almost 6 million kids addicted to nicotine and they are getting addicted to nicotine because of flavors. 66 of the kids addicted to these products are saying they didnt even know it had nicotine in it. They just thought it was a candy pipe drop. Its the flavor drawing them in comment its a health issue. Isolate the fact that jewel said they are taken the products off the market because they care about their kids. The adults have access to mental products and they have a tobacco flavored products, putting out cotton candy flavor and what is that unicorn poop flavor, this is kid products. We have to put the kids first. [inaudible] the market needs to address the plan not only have a call for increasing the age of 21, thats a nobrainer. That has to be done. That keeps it away from the 18 yearolds. On top of that we have laid out 21 different marketing restrictions. We are advertising banning advertisement is complaining about everybodys criticizing their industry for their markets, but nobodys talking about actually putting on marketing restrictions. What kind of senate bill . Et cetera approach i think you need to raise the age of 21 and restrict how we market the products. And on top of that you have to increase penalties to retailers. But increasing penalties because they do know that they are keeping these products for the kids. So we say three strikes and youre out. Today the fda can allow you to have seven you actually told to stop selling Tobacco Products. That is unacceptable. On top of that we are in the age of technology and thats what this is. This is a Technology Product thats helping people quit smoking. And unfortunately. [inaudible] [inaudible] i take care of children every day and this is a crisis. These parents and these children are counting on her help. I did teenage boy in my office crying telling me i was just dumb, i was just dumb. I cannot get off of it. It is a crisis. Children sleep with her jewels under their pillow so when they wake up in the middle of the night they can take a vape. These children, nicotine is so big to them we have nothing in our arsenal. The nurses and doctors are here we are having the same message we need to take all flavors off the market and have the fda investigation of that. We are worried if we leave one flavor on the market even menthol, the children are gonna go to that because the children want something. And the actions are so desperate here. Okay they are all legit companies. Going to be shipped in from mexico. I am looking the secretary hoping he has a great solution for that. But our big thing is this is really where we have to help the children. We have 5 million children addicted now but we dont have another 5 million addicted by leaving the flavors on the market. Because children love flavors we flavor medicine because it taste good. Medicine is good for children e cigarettes are not. So they should not have flavors. What about the counterfeit issues bird we know that many of these want to quit and need they need help quitting. We ask kids what would they do up all of the flavors were taken off the market including menthol and 60 that, the number one answer is they would quit. We have a program where they can text and on their phone and there is no promotion. Sixtyseven kids have signed up for. These kids are angry, they did not sign up for this. They thought it was all fun flavors then they got addicted. [inaudible] thank you, mr. President. You have a opportunity here save a generation from addiction. You know the kids are attracted to these flavored cigarettes. And those who argue that e cigarettes is used for Smoking Cessation then you have not found evidence. They examined evidence and they have not found evidence among adults that the products were for Smoking Cessation. In that they have that they should take into the fda were we can evaluate, the fda can evaluate we can all make decisions made on that. When you say its problem than smoking cigarettes . They say with the ecigarette to stop smoking, you dont think so sally . No, sir thank you, mr. President. Nicotine addiction is not good. How does that compare to normal smoking of cigarettes . Neither one is good. [inaudible] the Royal College of physicians Public Health your own former commissioner stated. [inaudible] [inaudible] these products are not kids or smokers, and there very often not split could become smokers. So the measurement of the risk. [inaudible] its inconsistent with all the government studies, these are not our figures. Okay its less than 1 . Most of the kids who have tried this product have already tried cigarettes or at some other Tobacco Products. These are kids without risk behaviors and that is why yes we have a duty. [inaudible] [inaudible] that is a completely false statement. There is high school vaping. They all use this product. [inaudible] [inaudible] tell me about lungs. The American Cancer Society is a based organization like all Public Health groups here. What is your public stance on this . Its a new modern age problem that five years ago i guess when did this really begin . It was released three years ago. Our stand is very aligned with what you said justin on september 11. We fully support that position to take all flavored ecigarettes off of market. Regardless of age . Absolutely. What if there over 21 . We dont know if thats. Its a matter of industries. When they use it a lot less if there werent flavors . Them and get back to the counterfeit. Of the flavors didnt exist there entire industry would disappear and the business would be damaged. In 2020 of americans used e cigarettes. Why is this the Biggest Company of flavors . Their longterm play is to sit down file applications with the fda and let the mediumsized ones go away at dinosaurs than they can come back and have 90 . [inaudible] what we are talking but its 51000 jobs, the Economic Impact that we just put out this morning included that over 13000 Small Businesses would close if you implement the flavor band. The flavor band . Correct. That would also eliminate a hundred and 51000. [inaudible] that is not right, im sorry thats just not right. [inaudible] i looked at the data and they said theres approximate 10000 vaping shops. For full time in quiver. Thats 4000 employees. The Convenience Stores, they sell a lot of products they are not going to go out of business because they dont have flavors. Its just the vaping shops. Matt finish place so they are not all going to go out of business because they cant sell flavors. They are not going to all go out of business. Some man that would be unfortunate but dont recognize that there are 50000 employees fulltime at cf five and a half million kids youre looking at a hundred kids addicted for one employee typically minimum wage. I put the kids first. Thats over 100 kids. Ralph fulltime equivalent employee. But these are the shops in the sector of the industry thats grown up to compete with the cigarette company. This is an industry thats competing for the first time for the cigarette smoker try to yank them off the cigarette. We have to do both things, theres a reason we cant do both things in this country. But if you eliminate flavors, because of this report those make up 85 to 90 of their sales, they will go out of business. There is no question about that because no Small Business owner can take that kind of hit to the revenue. You are saying they are going out of business . [inaudible] why does your company not going out of business if the dont do flavors . Because they can wait a year or two years to go back to have the market share they have today. Like i said earlier we have science based information we want to keep this for adult smokers who cant quit to have an option. Thats the mission of our company. This youth issue we felt and we were part of it, we had to address it and as a leader we took the test steps to repeat. [inaudible] so you know there is addiction . The flavors for adults to make that change. The problem is the kids get access. So if we take them out about whos gonna take your place . [inaudible] where can have counterfeiters and they are getting it dangerous. Mr. President i think first of all we have not seen a growth in adults using these products with the introduction of flavors. So theres a lot of myth going on here. [inaudible] [inaudible] i did not interrupt you all. What you will have as youll have companies that produce products that have tobacco flavor which used to be the most popular and may still be among adults even though not among kids. Then second, what we are talking about here with your proposal was for a company that has dated a show with they have a product with or without a flavor that actually promotes cessation and doesnt get to the kids, can go to the food and Drug Administration and go to the review. What we are talking about is making them does ella this science produce it to the agency that has the authority to review it and then have a science based decision about what is in the publics interest. And thats what we are really talking about. And what you do in the interim . We do nothing in the interim we are going to wake up six months of our and another million and a half kids are going to be addicted and they are not going to be able to quit. So let me ask you this, the concept of letting states make their own decisions, we talked about that the other day. What about that . Estate, we put a 21 limit because. [inaudible] we age limit of 21. What about the concept of every state decides . I think nationwide we need to do this for our kids wherever they live. And it shouldnt be if you live in a state that does not address this issue, your children are at risk. Thats what worries me about this. Then there get a bite somewhere else and go back. Thats why the fda has this authority. We have a Governmental Agency that has the authority to address the complicated questions that exist. And put in place rules i make science based decisions. Every company in the country has put up small vape shops they have to do it by may of this year anyway. The f da under statutory regulation has to provide an answer within six months. So what we are really weighing is this nearterm solution that is being proposed. And i value americans children. I have children i would not with them using these products. We are valuing a six to ten month solution, where the fda has to make a decision by december of next year anyway, versus a hundred thousand jobs. Its by the way for the record. [inaudible] mr. President i would just like to say i understand this is an important conversation about jobs, but i am here because our group represents millions of families of moms all across the country and dads across the country and grandparents, you can go to any state in this country and ask people with children this is what people are worried about. So what you think is the solution . So this is a generation of children that would otherwise not have been initiated into tobacco use. And we know that because of the youth use figures worth the lowest place theyd ever been before j you ul came on the market with their technology. With huge amounts of nicotine going to the brain so quickly thats why they get that head rush. This addiction is severe addiction. It is and normas amounts of nicotine, so much more than combustible cigarettes and parents are terrified. We hear this every day from people all across the country, all walks of life. In cities and suburbs, in the country, and they feel like they have lost their kids. Straight a students are flunking out of schools. Athletes, star athletes cant run a mile. And what i hear over and over, what we hear all the time is i dont recognize my child. That bouts of anger, the pain, parents are in pain. And we need you. What is your solution . Our solution is your solution. Do you have a real solution . What is your solution . My solution is what you have the right to do for at the beginning. Which is the flavors get the kids, take the flavors and leave the tobacco flavor your original suggestion was right. We are not prohibitionists. Leave tobacco flavor for adults. Because in the end, its not there yet, but if the science ultimately proves that yes, this is going to help people quit, then they should have that right. We have no interest in shutting it down. I dont think it science is there yet. I think we need more data. [inaudible] a lot of on. [inaudible] theres been no evidence presented to the fda to that fact, and any manufacturer makes that claim will be enforced against. And so you may think there is that evidence, but thats the process the Tobacco Control act requires is bringing forth that information. That would be part of that process. What you think . Mr. President , its a little hard to take all the virtue signaling all around. Because you have to remember the history of this. We were all excited that there is an opportunity, i come from a bluecollar world. My brother is a smoker, i understand. It is a very addictive behavior. And it was exciting at the beginning to think a look theres an opportunity for people to get off of tobacco. And at that point we were winning when it came to those kids. The people who were buying their product were aging out. They didnt have a generation coming up behind them until they came up with v6 and then the truth is, they targeted kids. They pay influences on social media to make it look cool, and sadly we had a youth problem again. If by the way many of these same people are in cahoots with the Marijuana Industry and the Tobacco Industry. So we get money from nobody. I like your original solution. I think we take off all flavors, we take it to 21 and we ban advertising. Your point earlier was correct. There is always, many make something illegal there is always a black market. We can say that about anything we can say about heroin, we can make it legal, we could say that about opioid so we can just sell it to whoever wants it. Theres always good to be something illegal. I dont how that works. Mr. President i certainly want to echo our Public Health partners, but on a daytoday basis the number one concern that we hear from our communities, from parents, from schools, is how do we really address this epidemic that we are facing . So all of us that are looking to you, your leadership role, in terms of really helping to create the next generation thats going to be. What is your recommended solution . To ban all flavors including mental. Including menthol . Thats a big statement. The American Cancer Society absolutely agrees with that. It is certainly an important step mr. President , but is one that you are putting out in september and so. Theres a hundred and 50 million reasons that Michael Bloomberg could not come to the table and talk about it. It. [inaudible] [inaudible] we are parent advocate of volunteers because parents are in pain. I said to people just on monday theres a family in the state of massachusetts everyone story was individual to them, but also the same. People who said their kids were no longer recognizable. Your kids couldnt focus in school. Their kids were having trouble breathing. Their kids were angry, this is not a small thing. With this kind of nicotine addiction, people are in pain and parents across this country all parents care. And we know that you care. You want to ban all flavors . s including menthol. We want to ban all flavors including menthol because as we said earlier if you get rid of just the mens kids will go to menthol. They are addicted. Only now and kids are frightened do they understand they are not in control. And to the point about the predatory behavior, the reason that we started our group is because our sons came home from school one day in 2018 and said there was a mixed message presentation about juliann in their school, with no other adults in the room, somebody came from and anti diction group, but in the end turned out to be a juul representative told the kids that julian was not crooked but was totally safe. And that it was reaching fda approval in a moment. And both of those statements were untrue. And thats why as a mom we started doing our own research and understood that this was an epidemic of enormous proportion. And that the kids were targeted, this is not about only certain kids it is all families. There are 5 million kids doing this that means there are millions of families who are in pain and they need you to save our generation. What would you do if you get rid of the flavors . What will they do . [inaudible] 97 of kids who are vaping are using flavored vapes. Do you with that . We dont know where theyre getting access to flavors. 95 really what were talking about. Will they put their own flavors in . Will they inject it with flavors and put their own flavors in . Our product is a single use. [inaudible] you pointed out that 100 of the deaths have resulted in. [inaudible] i think its worth pointing out but its a different issue. Its an important issue though. In other words and i have been reading about a lot of death and that its not from j ul its from other things too. [inaudible] our look at vaping and ecigarette continues joining us with cq roll call, the president went through a bit of an evolution in his thinking on vaping and e cigarettes, particularly under age vaping. How does thinking evolve . So the president , after announcing what sounded like a widespread flavor ban, he eventually seemed moved by some concerns raised by conservative groups and Small Businesses in the vaping industry, about both economic and political impact of such a move. A lot of the vaping industry is pretty large corporations but theres a sizable segment of Small Businesses that produce nicotine liquids, and there are thousands of jobs potentially could be at stake if a full flavor ban went into effect. Conservative groups also emphasizing that the number of adults who vape in some of the states that trump would want in 2016 like michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, the number of vapors in the states exceed the margin of his victory there. And they were making the argument that if trout ban flavors, he could potentially lose those voters. And indeed the days leading up to the january policy announcement, while trump was at his florida resort, there were apparently protesters with shirts and sign saying we vape we vote lined up along his motorcade route. In that November White house meeting we heard some talk about banning the use of vaping products, e cigarettes to those 21 above. The administration talking about that. Where does that stand . So the purchasing age for Tobacco Products including e cigarettes is 21 nationwide. When President Trump signs the spending built the end of 2019, that became the law of the land. The fda is still probably going to be taking a few months before it is fully enforced around the country, and in the meantime, a lot of states already have aged 21 in place. States that dont buy below slower to enforce it. But now it is illegal for retailers to sell to anyone under 21. And they need to be checking the ids for anyone who looks under 30. And not long after that meeting, the head of the fda Tobacco Products testify before congress. He asked whether fda was asked if there get abandoned cigarettes. Your member on november 11 fda was going to issue guidance clearing the market of quote nontobacco flavored ecigarettes including mens and mental products right . Yes. And your realize that the secretary had showed a continued rise in the distributing use of youth especially through nontobacco flavors that appealed to kids correct . Yes smack any further stated that more than a quarter of a high students were current ecigarette users in 2019 and the overwhelming majority of these ecigarette users, i think you said 75 of High Schoolers, but the overwhelming majority of these ecigarette users said they were using flight fruit flavor or menthol or mint flavors. The purpose of banning is clearing the market of flavored ecigarettes, was to decrease use vaping was at right . That would be consistent with what this secretary said. Was urgency and thats why on the president set on september 11 that fda guidance would come quote a couple of weeks. Right . That is what was said. There was an urgency felt at that time right . That is correct. Smack and september 25 you said the work on the flavor guidance was quote a very, very high priority and we are trying to complete work on as quickly as possible . I dont number the date but i said that. Yes he said that in october 25 to the hill. But this flavor guidance is not yet been published . No. According to a letter sent to me by fda the fda drafted guidance incident 20 ira in office in the omb, on october 25 correct . Yes or. Just to be clear fda guidance document followed through on secretary a czars announcement that the fda would clear the market of all nontobacco flavors, right . Im not going to get into the substance of the document that was submitted. And why are you not what basis are you not getting into that . Because there has been no final decision made on this policy because there are ongoing discussions taking place and i cannot get into the substance of whats in that document. And who instructed you not to get into the substance of it was to mark. This is based on discussions internally and it Standard Practice when there is ongoing policymaking that we dont talk publicly about what is under consideration. I would be happy as i said in my remarks is i would be happy to come back in brief you and your staff when there is a final decision or walk you through everything. But this remains an open set of discussions. s according to fdas letter sent to me yesterday, oir concluded its review on november 4 right . Correct. Did they make any changes to the initial guidance . Again i cannot going to details of ongoing discussions. Now you are familiar with something called executive order 12866 right . Yes or. According to this phrase see a 12866, the fda is not allowed to publish in the federal register until ira has finished its review, correct . For things that are subject to the executive order. Correct and thats one of them . This is a policy because of its significance we sent to omb for review, yes. So eo 12866 would apply and basically talks about the types of policy that would be submitted and then sent back to the fda correct . Correct. Now zero ira has marked it completed on their website. That means the policy is back with the fda, right . They completed their review on november 4, and sent the document back to us. But there were still ongoing policy related discussions going on in parallel. But oir a did complete their review and sent back to them on november 4. When you said there are policy discussions going with hoop. They were parallel policies between the fda and the white house. So according to executive order 12866 the fda is not allowed to publish in the federal registry chill or ahaz complete its review but now that they have completed their review, the fda can publish the guidance correct . If the completes executive branch review is done. But there were still, as i said in parallel other ongoing discussions going on in addition to the zero ira review. So these parallel discussions, this sounds like some irregular channel of discussions, independent of the standard submission of the guidance from fda 20 ira and back to the fda . Is there some of their review that is happening right now that has nothing to oir or the fda . There are ongoing policy related discussions between the agency and the white house about what the policy should be. Okay so did o ira really complete its review if they are still discussing with you this document . Oh ira complete its review but it other levels in the department and the white house and the agency again in parallel there were discussions continuing about what the policy should be even though i will ira has completed that. And he was part of that discussion. And that would be the leadership and the white house. And that leadership includes you . I would be involved. Lift relates made in the leadership of the agency. At the white house who is involved . I think its a various offices from the domestic policy to the office of budget and others, i have not been directly involved in discussions at the white house. So, you would agree with me, sir, and the white house domestic Property Council is headed by joe grogan is that correct . Correct. You agree with me that the fda should be regulating Tobacco Products dont you . Thats our job, yes. Its not a waste of time correct. Its one of the most important Public Health things a Regulatory Agency can do its what i have devoted the last 25 years of my life too. That is why i am so concerned by your propriety prayer answered that the white house to medic counsel is part of these discussion mr. Grogan said it was quote a huge waste of time for fda to regulate tobacco. Last week my home state of massachusetts became the first the nation to place a permanent ban on flavored cigarette he bans and this is important because if we are banning flavors, we must ban all flavors which include mints and menthol. Too not do so would be discriminatory since mental and particularly has impose a unique and deadly burden on the black community. You must clamp down on the production of menthol products and not the individual possession of it. Because there are real intergenerational traumatic consequences of broken windows policing that historically over criminalize black and brown communities. Something i called for in my peoples justice guarantee resolution, we must be simultaneously attuned to both Public Health and Public Safety to ensure there are no more gardeners. For years the Tobacco Companies disproportionally targeted more tobacco ads and specifically more mental tobacco as in black neighborhoods. In some instances as many as ten times more ads from menthol products. Cbc reports that nearly nine out of ten black smokers prefer Menthol Cigarettes. I think it is safe to say that the targeting was effective, correct . I would agree with that. So today nearly 45 of black menthol smokers said they would quit smoking if Menthol Cigarettes were banned. And almost two thirds of black smokers under 24 years of age we do the same. A year ago, the fda announced plans to ban cigarettes because menthol products quote unquote disproportionally adversely affect underserved communities. For yearsassed, and the fdas has not followed through on this band, why is that mr. Zeller . As you said congresswoman, we went through an advance notice of rulemaking on a variety of issues related to flavors including the presence of menthol in cigarettes. And i would add to what you said, that one of the Public Health concerns about mental aided cigarettes, is not just a disproportionate use of Menthol Cigarettes for african americans, but the role the Menthol Cigarettes play in attracting kids of any color to experimenting with cigarettes. And we continue to review the comments and explore what the regulatory options and policies should be. But i absolutely hear you, and i share your concern from a Public Health perspective. But just to reclaim my time for moment in the interest of time. Just to be clear on the record. I doubt the fda follow through with this ban . I cannot give you a yes or no answer in an open public hearing. All i can tell you is we are continuing to review all of the evidence in all flavors and all Tobacco Products as we try to follow the regulatory science and come up at the right policy. Previous attempts to ban menthol has been overridden by other offices. Why is that . You need to be more specific i dont know what youre what specific instance referring to. Okay i will move on. I think the point im really just reiterating and i cannot underscore enough because we are talking about a lifeanddeath matter, is that 47000 black people die every year from smoking related illness. Making this the largest cause of preventable death among black americans. Even more than gun violence are car accidents. So we dont have more time, people are dying. So in my final second i want to go to a different line for a moment, so e cigarettes are are e cigarettes recognize as an effective Smoking Cessation aid or not . They are not approved by the fda for that. Vmax said he cigarettes are not that and menthol are not an offramp for adult smokers. They are an on ramp to a new generation of smokers. While we can go past the 22nd so you have left, there is a public half balancing act that the agency has to do with whatever policy emerges on flavors. And its balancing, what are our flavors helping adults successfully transition off of cigarettes completely to e cigarettes . What role are flavors playing in that . And its part of the balancing that we need to do. Its an easy call on the negative side of the ledger when it comes to the role that flavors are playing in attracting kids to experiment, especially kids who are Walking Around thinking these are harmless products. But its a balancing act because we have heard repeatedly from former smokers that it was the presence of certain flavors that help them successfully transition completely away from cigarettes. The fda official we just saw could not say if flavored e cigarettes would be banned, the administration has since made that decision, so what effects has been banned and what has not . You will no longer be able to buy fruit flavored cartridges or pods for ecigarette brands like juul or views. The only flavors you can get for those kinda products are tobacco and menthol. If you use the product that is an ecigarette with the refillable tank that you can buy a liquids four, elevate shops, you will be able to continue to buy flavors, as long as the flavors they are selling are in explicitly targeted toward children. We heard from frank colon after the Administration Announcement on eggs cigarettes, he is the chair of the energy and commerce committee, opposing some of the move by the administration. What else might we hear from congress in 2020 . One of the next steps we will see from the administration itself, is how strongly it enforces a may deadline for ecigarette manufacturers to submit applications for sales authorization to the fda. This is something that was required under the 2009 Tobacco Control act. And for the first time, a decade later, the ecigarette manufacturers are finally going to have to submit these applications to the fda to show things about their product safety and data about whether it helps adults quits, and how risky it is for establishing new nicotine users. The starting and made the fda will be considering this applications. And a major question will be how much will it trump administration, weigh the risk of youth use against the potential benefits of helping adult smokers quit using traditional cigarettes. And congress is concerned that the continuation, having any flavors on the market will mean that young people will continue to be attracted to e cigarettes. And while the prospect for Congress Getting anything enacted into law now, beyond the tobacco 21 law, seem unlikely in this session. But the house is likely to take up and probably pass bills that will put more restrictions on what the fda they would put more restrictions on how the fda considers the risks and benefits of permitting a flavor to be on sale. Joining us for our discussion with our program on vaping, under age vaping and flavored cigarettes rita is reporting at cq. Com. He is also on twitter. Thanks much. And bill close out our program with another look at President Trumps remarks on new years eve. If the vaping is coming out, we are going to be announcing it very shortly, some people already know about what we are doing. We have to protect our families at the same time its a big industry, we want to protect the industry. And as you know we will be taking it off the flavors for a period of time, certain flavors. We are going to protect our families, we are going to protect our children, we are going to protect the industry. Hopefully everything gets safe they can go back onto the market. So the flavors will come off, theyre going to be checked, people have died from vaping. We think we understand why. But we are doing a very exhausted examination, and hopefully everything away back to the market very, very shortly. Let the vaping can be good from the standpoint, if you look at the e cigarettes to stop smoking. If you can stop smoking that is the big advantage. So we think we are going to get it back onto the market very, very quickly. But we have to protect the children, we have to protect the families. At the same time we have a very big industry it has become a very big industry. We are going to take care of the industry. The distrust you see in survey after survey, the American People dont trust that the Mainstream Media is telling them the truth or the whole truth, and so i think that has actually led to the rise of new media. On sunday at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on after words. Peggy oregonstein discusses her book, boys and sex. Porn has become the de facto sex educator for young people because we dont talk to them as parents or in school. So curiosity about sex is natural and for that matter, mass temperature base is natural masturbation is under a and important but what is different for this generation, with the rise of the internet and the part known and the droppings of pay walls on porn sites they can get nation want and a whole lot of things nobody want at their fingertips on their phone. Our campaign 2020 coverage with continues with senator Michael Bennett in bedford, new hampshire, and mayor Pete Buttigieg from leaves, and own on tuesday, once cspan 2, President Donald Trump is in milwaukee, wisconsin, at a keep America Great rally. Watch our coverage on cs