Eating but as promised, we are going to have a really goo good important discussion that will help to draw on what we heard this morning. And bill, by thinking a little bit about how we set a strategic frame this of Good Governance, think about all the things we heard this morning about some of the problems, some of the challenges that need to be addressed in fragile states, governing institutions needed to become more accountable. We have to work on ways to build inclusiveness, tackle the problem of marginalization and exclusion, figure out how to empower the youth to take leadership roles. The importance of enabling Civil Society to be an important part of cementing a stronger state of society relationship, these are all dimensions of governance in one way or another and this is one of the central challenges of transforming fragile states to be more resilient. So, how do we do that from the perspective of the United States, how do we set up a strategic frame that helps to put into motion better support for transforming governance to be Good Governance. We are very fortunate to have three superb leaders from the peace building. Two of them are members on the task force on extremism in fragile states have develope tha set of recommendations on tackling the problems of the fragility to be a longterm solution for violent extremism so we couldnt be more fortunate and to help us with the discussion, to moderate the discussion, im really delighted to introduce to you the Foreign Affairs defense correspondent for the pbs news hour, and i couldnt be happier to hand it over to nick to start the conversation. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Let me introduce the people that are here to listen to a need no introduction but i will just briefly broken secretary madeleine albright, secretary of state, chair of the board of directors and cochair of Albright Capital management. At the end president and ceo, it seems to me just give a frame for this in 18 years, we spent a lot of time defeating terrorists, terrorism though has increased. We targeted extremists but extremism has gross. Weve overthrown governments. Weve won battles but certainly not the peace. So how do we create a way to do that and reduce personal and financial cost than 6 trillion, 5,310,000 americans dead, 50,000 americans wounded, hundreds of thousands of iraqis and afghans have been killed, how do we protect the country and create a more sustainable and successful strategy, hell do we prevent extremism from taking root and defeat not only todays defeats not only todays terrorists but tomorrows terrorists. Could you give us a sense of how we think we can do that . Thank you everyone for joining us here today for the conversation. You just did a great laydown of the problems and to take a hard look at solutions, Congress Asked u. S. It to convene a host, task force bipartisan Highlevel Task force in 2018 to create a comprehensive plan for how should we address extremism in fragile states, and it was based on more than a decade of thinking and lessons that have identified the fact that the conditions in fragile states where you have a weak or non Responsive Government and a broken social bond between people and their government that gives rise to a host of conditions that can enable extremism to take root, violent extremism and if so how do we tackle that more effectively . The task forces cochaired by the original cochairs of the 9 11 report, congressman lee hamilton and governor tom came. They considered this to be Unfinished Business because one of the three recommendations of the 9 11 report was to adopt a policy of prevention. That recommendation was never taken forward, so that became a touchstone of the Task Force Recommendation that we need a policy prevention, and they thought about it in terms of really focusing in on addressing the conditions that give rise to fragility and extremism and by the way, civil war, extreme poverty, forced migration, a host of bills that address this that we face globally, but to do so in a more coordinated and comprehensive strategy across the u. S. Government come into just quote the senator who was one of the many bipartisan of the global fragility act as if the problem isaysthe problem isg to deal with complicated problems and the dod is playing football. The state department is playing soccer and nobody i is the coach or the quarterback and so of course we are not going to make the progress that we must make to tackle this more effectively. The remaining recommendations anhad more coordinated strategy, longerterm war. It approaches that require a different kind of mechanism legislatively, and coordinate more effectively with international partners. And to do so as you heard from joe against principles with longerterm locally led iterate of programming. So the coordinated strategy to create that strategy is always the challenge for the coordinated strategbut thecoordk of its longterm, think of longterm coordination from the u. S. With partners in local countries, and make it international. Create a fund coming as we talk to the private sector as well, so lets examine the next few minutes. Secretarsecretary albright, thew what i would rather ask the question too. Is this about democracy, is this about enabling democracy to be more resilient to the fragile states and if so, how do we do that . I do think it is about the fact that people everywhere want to be able to make decisions about their own lives. One of the things i presented when i was in office is people say that agents are not interested in democracy or whatever. So on purpose, i made my secretary for democracy a korean american. But i really do think we are all the same and we want to be able to make decisions and the question is how is it done, and it is more difficult. We are proving ourselves right here. And if so i think that the question is how to have the perseverance. And in just listening to you initially, i was trying to do this when i was in office and then when we came out, what happened was for instance the former secretary defends indicted a task force on the prevention of genocide. It was the only task force except for this now that you are talking about how the how the et that president obama named something that created, there was a president ial decision on having this in order to be able to get a group of people in the u. S. Government looking ahead to try to figure out what might be happening to prevent it. We also, ive done some work in order to try to get the International Community involved in it through the concept of responsibilities to protect. Any number of different ways and i was happy to be asked to be on this task force because i do think that it addresses the major problems which is that we have to spend a long time on it. I have said either way im no longer a diplomat, but i have said that. You dont have to be diplomatic. I said americans are the most generous people in the world with the shortest attention span. And i think part of the issue here is how to give that strength both institutionally and morally but its going to take a while and that it does take a new statement whole of government which is very hard frankly. It always is. It seems to be particularly hard at this time, and the other part is to fully understand what are the conditions that create fragility or what are the negative aspects that make sure that it continues, and what are the positive aspects that have to be taken care of in order to be able to be supportive of it and understand that democracy isnt a spectator sport, not in the United States and not anywhere else. We have to find the partners in these various countries that want to be a part of this and not have us be patronizing about it or say it has to be only american democracy. We have to recognize that there are other aspects in the way that people are able to make their voices heard in society. Lets zoom in. Theres a lot of secretary gave us, but just zoom in as you experienced in burma. Talk about the conditions on the ground and specifically with secretary albright was saying the condition you saw that creates fragility, some of the solutions to try to take away that fragility and work their partners, or other partners to work with as you saw . You are asking how we sold burma while i was there. [laughter] clearly theres a lot more to go so i had Lessons Learned tha bui can tell you at least how we went about it and the lessons at least as to what we heard in the Previous Panel i think to some degree. First of all the really important idea of context, of understanding intimately, doing your homework and understanding every context is different and defend every one knows its always been a blackandwhite issue. You get now into the nittygritty in th of the countd realize how incredibly complex by their own top 135 different ethnic groups. At least 20 or so are involved in peace. So the context is absolutely essential and doing your homework in that way you do no harm. The most important thing when you get involved is do no harm. To demonstrate that you get it, that is a longterm effort that means you have to work at this and to know theres someone you can count on. But third, the ambassadors are very important, because that is one focal point on the ground that brings it all together. We have a mission of different components, a id and defense and others its up to the ambassador and the operational person on the ground to bring this together. I was very lucky because i had president obama who really cared my john kerry and Hillary Clinton thats also extremely important in washington to put the resources and the time into it. Absent that used to people on the ground to understand the importance of coordinating all these instruments into think in terms not as we heard in the last session but an explicit program on and inclusion by integrating into everything you do. I would be asked tell us about your Democracy Program or your Peace Program. I would say everything we do is a Democracy Program or Peace Program because its how we do it. Not just what we do if we do health or agriculture we bring people together across ethnicities that creates peace from the bottom up. Is it working quex we also do a lot of work on that front. Its painstaking and takes a lot of time and there are those who will try to make it not succeed. But its worth the effort and required for sustained stability and fragile environment. You have worked in so many fragile environments walk us through from the us perspective to know the country to create trust and relationships and have an ambassador and diplomats that are also backed from washington what has your experience been quex what are these places looking for to make them more resilient and less fragile clicks. First of all every country would be different but some of the Core Principles were embedded in the recommendations which have now been part of the global fragility act as you heard from the last panel, we have an unbelievable moment right now those hard earned lessons with Data Research puts that into recommendations a lot are working on it and have translated into the global fragility act that requires the government to have a coordinated Ten Year Strategy to work along those core principle approaches so to answer your question, you said it already we need to have a longterm commitment less focused on resources and sustaining over time to do so in partnership with local actors and Civil Society and local governments where you can. They are in the lead. We heard a beautiful summary at the end of the last panel that if you look at one of the core issues that represents the breakdown between governments and the people you need to hone in on those to engage a citizenry to hold the own government accountable or enable a leadership so along the way where the quick wins as what you go through is longterm quex there isnt the patients for those who are hungry or in dangers of sometimes you need to work on getting emergency food and greater security. But do it in a way that doesnt smother the other elements to emerge so you dont not pursue education or prioritize short term security that is repressiv repressive. That is a mistake that we make. Having all of those elements together in a coordinated strategy. How often have people like me accusing the Us Government of pursuing short term gains at the expense of longterm stability. Those to have solutions only pointing out criticisms. [laughter] so it seems to me what i would call longterm strategy your patience or the notion to develop education like pakistan or afghanistan or sudan but decades. Is it really possible for the Us Government to have a strategy that looks beyond one president ial cycle . I think its difficult because of the campaign and the carrying out of policy is in opposition what the previous people did. So i think what has to happen since we are a democracy and is not a spectator sport , people participate. They are open to pressure from the public. So to think about what our role is for those who are not in the government. And also in a strange way, then the senators are there longer in a cycle. I have been saying for a number of reasons, this is time of article one. I might not have said that when i was in the executive branch. [laughter] but i do think that part of the thing that has to happen , it has to be part of our dna that this will take time to require the group of people from a variety of different parts of our society to keep saying this will take time. And also for a little humility to say it has taken us time. It is difficult. I am worried generally about the four year cycle of Foreign Policy even by the same party because i do think there is a sense we have to do something totally different where i think picking up a project is a good idea. The other part i have to say and it was true when we were in office but to do something people just want to check it off and say now weve done bosnia. Or whatever. And it takes much more time. And we are not a patient people. And nancy this is something we have to work on with the fragility is to actually report certain deadlines that have been met or certain accomplishments so it doesnt sink into the bureaucracy and then set up a reporting system to the american people. But patience is not our best suit. And i do think that something we have to work on. Let me just add that the task force on extremism of fragile states, everyone but one asked to continue on so the task force is continuing and specifically looking at that kind of reporting. It seems we have a problem in the United States thinking longterm but also thinking even shortterm and coordinating between agencies. So talk about that how does the us develop coherence with diplomacy and defense . Is it even possible quick. It is very difficult and madeleine was talking earlier over lunch trying to do this across different agencies is very difficult. I do think if you have a particular challenge there are working groups and people at operational levels who can come together to think this through. We talk about the three ds im not sure we act on them we educate people, we bring them and train them to the Foreign Services and to operate. And if i may add to that there should be the fourth which we talk about which is democracy. We should run through all of this i was with a former colleague of mine a senior strategist who worked in the counterterrorism center. He said he did a study of all counterterrorism work and he came to one conclusion the biggest challenge we face is governance. Not many people get this not even in state you completely get it. May be mark green got it but running across the different divisions there has to be a recognition of how we do this is important in government to the success of environments with any transition. And what is good is the Additional Development world is starting to get this so then it starts to get easier to talk about these things on the government side. But more needs to be done through think tanks and through the institutes and training at the operational levels to get to the bloodstream of the Foreign Policy community to operate day to day and hopefully that transcends into congress. So part of Good Governance is government responding to their people it is the Democracy Movement protest and a Civil Society in general. Talk about the importance of that. How can we in the context of creating this longterm strategy support these people who try to make their governments more accountable and improve governance . Usaid was a Global Leader to establish democracy as a part of Development Agenda almost 30 years ago. The problem is it has never had rich amounts of funding and aid sometimes gets leery of jumping into situations that is political a lot of times its the politics that need to be understood to get democracy and governance right. Civil society and movements of people are some of the ways that the politics gets addressed in more repressed societies and the ability to support that, i have gone in and out of iraq for a decade and a half and one of the best investments we have made is the development of Civil Society. Such that earlier this year you saw people in the streets demonstrating not for their sectarian issues but for more accountable nonsectarian government as well as less iranian influence so to have that happen under saddam that was an Extraordinary Development that came through support of the International Community and a number of countries where we could talk about that. Supporting Civil Society and governmental institutions supporting elections is a long list. We need to do so in concert with an overall strategy and we can do this and fits and spurts and often in ways that dont listen to the local leadership and we can smother those efforts with too much love and attention at the same time. On that part there is an awful lot of goodwill what you are trying not to smother but we need to coordinate more among ourselves. Not so much the government but the nongovernmental sector to figure out where we should be working together. Im not even sure if people know what Civil Society means they think its being nice to each other. What are we talking about when we talk about getting people involved in the project and then to understand there are some kind of rules and what is the relationship between the people and the government quex the social contract has been broken. Something now all of a sudden the government feels it doesnt have the responsibility for helping the people and the people say to hell with this i dont want anything to do with the government so we need to think of the social contract aware that has broken down and we also i feel more and more strongly about this, we need to get the private sector involved i think democracy has to delive deliver. We need to understand when many of us were in college or graduate school would have discussions what comes First Political or economic and Development People want to vote and eat so what we need to do is get the private sector involved to help in a coordinated way so people see the results to have a rule of law to be a commercial code that people will invest and then hire local people. So this is a large agenda and it needs coordinating. Not just by the Us Government but some organizational aspect. I forgot to mention on the issue of people power, we have a whole practice area looking at the tactics and strategies of these movements and where we see movements across the globe to make an effective difference. There are specific strategies and disciplines that enable these movements and we cannot continue to support that. Where have you seen that work increasing private Sector Development quick. Just to build on the notion of the movements the past year that has been the theme with all these movements and street demonstrations there would be a list of dozens of these activities whether hong kong or wherever there is that frustration and the challenge are movements of anger and frustration but i got very frustrated when Mark Zuckerberg gave his speech at georgetown and try to wrap himself in the cloak of human rights and democracy. No. Does allow people to have a voice but that is not the beall and endall democracy as people saying listen to me or listen to us. Governance is about building an institution and the harnessing of that. To build Political Parties and channel Civil Society to ensure the left is managed fairly and effectively. So for example the challenge we face now in the aftermath is how do we channel that range and one rage and anger . So in a critical moment of transition theres been cuts related to the election and if this doesnt go well people will get frustrated so then are we getting economic benefit . Do we have jobs or place like nigeria was a step back so we have a plan. We look at stride nigeria 2023 what will we do between now and then . A id, partners on the ground how do we get from here to there and people feel the processes responding to the need . If we dont it starts to unrave unravel. And that decade that started with arab spring and then just ended with global unrest. Secretary albright, as what we try to do talk about what the west tries to facilitate there are actors trying to thwart those efforts. The Trump Administration mostly has gotten the credit for the National Security strategy calling china a threat but certainly the return of the idea particularly china is a longterm threat to the United States looking at the promotion of democracy how much are china and russia are doing to thwart that quick. I do think both in their own way are trying. But also in terms of the belief that the chinese maybe we have not paid enough attention to the economic part of building new societies. So in many ways i have been saying the chinese must be getting very fat because the bill gets larger and larger. [laughter] they are everywhere so they go in and say they will provide a project that is good for the country for instance i remember being in kenya there was a discussion about building a road and would harm the serengeti. The American Contractors were very cautious of that the chinese said where do you want it . May have done in a variety of different places. They are not very patient either actually but their entry point is very attractive and they dont care what the government is. Russians try to undermine anything that we do and try to separate us from our allies and our various ways they have no money internally so they wont do that but they try to research as a major power so they say what the americans are doing is something contrary to what the country wants its interesting to see the research in the middle east and egypt specifically talking about arab spring. They are out there it would be better for you all Work Together but the chinese are the strongest to separate us to develop these issues its easier to build a road then to create these various institutions. You boasting one both engage with the question starting with Southeast Asia and that part of the world china believes it needs to reduce influence what was your interaction with china and how do we respond to their challenges quick. Secretary albright i grabbed onto that early as ambassador and because people may remember companies could not invest for many years and my first day as ambassador basically was right after so i had in my residence all the companies that were interested. I challenge them. They are now counting on you to bring those values with you and what you do. But the chinese bring their values or lack of that of openness and transparency you must demonstrate you are operating in a different way and if you do the Us Government is in bad effort because i used to say in burma when i challenge the companies we invest we will invest in local communities and train people and give back and we care about the success of the country that is in our interest now other countries extract because they think we want resources we have excess capacity, there is a different mindset so there is an advantage this century the fundamental is not about china about the values or the norms or the rules of the 21st century. We had a certain rule base that followed world war ii we were the hyperpower for a while how would that be shaped . And with every resource we can the private sector is a very Strong Resource they can be an ally we should challenge them to be and we should engage more actively which includes the tech sector. This is also about results in a democracy needs to produce results. How do you see that balance in the us answering to spread those values to confront the chinese threat and also results on the ground . A couple of points. We see the more fragile estate is the more vulnerable that is to the influence of regional or great powers and we see that with china and russia. So creating a world committed to democracy. I worry a lot even as our National Security strateg strategy, there is good reason for doing that. For these issues fragility are not gone. At some payroll do we risk shifting all the attention away from addressing the kind of state fragility issues to extreme poverty and significant migration . And third the to do all this requires the resources and longevity we are seeing with the global fragility act. I take great heart we now have a path that is a binding commitment to create these longterm strategies that we need to look at. Because we really risk losing focus at the time of recommendations and high level validation. We could easily wander off field because we are easily distracted. I hope we can take that global fragility act to use that as a momentum to put these ideas into action. Because bureaucracy is a hard thing to move and thats what we have to deal with. The dangers of making this anti china. But we dont want to be instrumental lies. We care about the success. It is heartfelt. But only in certain cases that are geopolitical. Then we diminish that strategically because countries see us as geopolitical and wet china is bringing to the world. So the notion should be affirmative its important for a secure world but also because we truly do care. We have a little less than 20 minutes. The firsthand i saw was on this table. Vice president of global peace service. The United Nations has a been mentioned much today and i would like the secretary to say where she sees the organizational infrastructure it seems to me it seems the impact has diminished so where can we strengthen those organizations to reflect on the International Structure quick. I have been very concerned the International Structure is weakening that those organizations need refurbishing. So we need to see where those weaknesses are and to strengthen is very important and that cliche frankly if it did not exist we would invent the human what has happened positively in terms of ad hoc operations like the g 20 or other smaller groupings to see what can be done through them because i do think there needs to be some kind of structure and to have an organizational part i would totally describe those organizations but also we need to be more supportive of the human. I am from british south cameroon. With the issue of the diminished status of United Nations so my question would be directed to secretary albright. With the United States policy has shifted from Subsaharan Africa in the backyard of europe. So based on your own experience how do you feel of that statement with respect to the presence of france in west africa and most of this fragility were talking about is not collective in Subsaharan Africa. I do think there has been more attention it would be very useful if more americans understood africa was not one country and that there really are differences among the 54 and there are some good stories and some very difficult ones. But there has been more interest in some of it has not been useful frankly but on the whole there is beginning to understand the diversity and the power of africa and the potential of africa and that positive aspect and what is the role of the human and peacekeeping operations and the who and how that deals with the bola or any number of Different Things so there needs to be some understanding of a multilateral approach to face specific attention and then hope it spreads to the other countries. I hate to say this but there are political figures that just africa because they think its one place. We need to understand that colonial history since that period has been over. Thank you for your presentation. So young people are often on the front line is not only terms of exclusion but a set of capacities to build upon those leaders at the time we see investments either flatlining or going down, the chinese Just Launched an initiative for youth and peace and security. So what should we be doing better . First of all we should look at the ways we can increase funding for that. I think the panel we heard from the four Young Leaders is very encouraging about the leadership that can make a difference in these fragile environments. They are the next generation to make a difference. Im sorry to keep harping on this but it goes to the heart of the global fragility act and the heart of the recommendations that says we are not going to solve these Critical Issues through military means we need longterm Solutions Working in concert to develop Youth Leadership and that is key. And that funding that was available that needs to be a priority to provide that strategical one strategic tactical leadership and that were not doing that in a way that it becomes about us. From south sudan i just want to pick up the local elect process. The Current Events looks more like a problem and then they are addressed to look like they are local elect so with room for flexibility so they end up not responding and that is predesigned through that process most of them happen to be shortterm and for example we are looking that is for decades to see how a threemonth project that will actually be sustainable. And then that challenge around that is the lack of sustainability for that and comes with the funding with the dependency within the community instead of utilizing those local resources that they have and that is accountability from the Civil Society so my question is how will this be any different in this context . It is the heart of the question we will have to figure out. This goes to the difficulty of change and what you articulated is what everybody agrees but how you do that will not be the first way that has happened with this new approach. But my hope is the global fragility act will push us to think differently and try differently to really understand if we want local leadership we should not be doing that from washington but it has to be in full partnership with mutual accountability. That there will be a process for getting that right but it wont happen right out of the box. Im from tunisia. My question is what we saw sometimes its more attractive for young people so my question for mrs. Albright when will we start to work on the counter interactive to make democracy for attractive and since 2011 democracy is important she brought free election but thats not enough we should work on prosperity that is very important for me as a woman, freedom. Even though we are on a good path it is still difficult for me that it doesnt protect me from violence so every day we are working. We are feeling alone to make democracy more attractive. Thank you. I have to say the National Democratic institute has taken an interest in tunisia. We had our Board Meeting there this last year and looked at a lot of things. You cant just operate with capital and then dealing with the local aspect and those that are not part of the government but Civil Society and especially the young people that is what we are concentrating on and asking questions when we were in tunisia, how is it going locally . So it may not seem that sexy to go to a small town somewhere but it is more important although tunis is beautiful but to get out of the main cities in dealing with people that are not used to hosting foreigners all the time. Please join me to thank secretary albright and ms. Mitchell. [applause] think this is the close of the program this morning. As we think our excellent partners at the george w. Bush institute and National Endowment for democracy. To put this to gather we will continue to work with these partners to continue focusing on these Critical Issues a number of sweeping conversations and many are eager. We will work with our partners in the near future to be a little more concrete. So as we say to make it dramatic watch this space. I wish you a happy and peaceful new year and ask you again thank you for joining us with this panel. [applause] have a great afternoon. [inaudible conversations] Prime Minister Boris Johnson is speaking to the house of commons for the first t
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