She had them. That would be to ease. Its how raided hem. Her husband augustine today when george was a 11 and mary was a single mother in her 30s raising six children. That alone i think would resonate with a lot of women in America Today and the tough time she went through raising her children. So, there was a when she was referred to by biographers from time of her passing until the time of the civil war, she came across as kind of like june cleaver, and or mary mother of chryst christ, after the civil war and realtime began to take hold in the American Literature with moby dick and tom sawyer and huck finn, he biographyers who mentioned her made her look more line joan crawford. Both got it wrong. She was neither and she was both, so i decided, plus i live in the area where she the millenbeck and ending forest and lively area of rural virginia on the northern neck, and theres a lot of just something that really washington always piqued im written five books on reagan, wrote one book on franklin roost so wanted to rite michigan on washington but he hand something on washington but he had been covered, soup to nails, and it was the way to get in and talk about him was to do a book about his mother. Host give us a quick biography of Mary Ball Washington. What she born in the United States. Guest yes. Host give us some information. Guest born in the United States. She was born of means but not of the upper classes. More like the upper middle classes of rural virginia. Virginia society. From the time that she was born until 11 yours old she lost her mother, father, stepfather, lost a stepbrother, so she knew about death intimately by the time she was 11 years old. She meets augustine in her 20ys and proceeds to marry him and in nine years she had six children. She lived on ferry farm outside of fredericksburg, virginia for a time but as things evolved and augustine died and the children moved on, she moved into fredericksburg where she spend the rest of her life and was not active in the Community Ship was a regular congregant at the local anglican church. She liked to dance but theres lot of gaps in story. Its like buying 1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle and having 300 pieces missing so you have to stitch i together and make educated guesses where you get what was the b part of the puzzle to get you from a to c. So that is what we had to do. We researched everything to a fair the well at mt. Vernon and fredericksburg, and her home at the Mary Ball Washington library in lancaster, virginia, combed everything we could to assemble the First Complete story of Mary Ball Washington. Host who is it necessary for americans to know the complete story of Mary Ball Washington . What do we learn but George Washington and about the beginnings of america from her . Guest well, clearly now, he had an older stepbrother named lawrence, who was the product of augustines marriage to jane and then jane died and then augustine married mary. But young george looked up to lawrence as a role model and lawrence by all conditions was a very good man but lawrence also died in his late 20s or early 30s. So clearly his all of his attributes, patriotism, loyalty, fidelity, had to come from somewhere and clearly came from his mother. She taught him the life lessons that made him the president , the standard by which all succeeding president s have been measured. One other thing, too, i is that i want people to understand that the 1700s was not a very hospitable for a lot of other people, africanamerican slaves and women. She obviously didnt have the vote, but she couldnt actually own property. Women in that century couldnt really own property. They would inherit it from their husband when the husband died, but then their job was to be a custodian of the property and pass it on to her oldest son which she did. Augustin arrest tote george, she ways the custodian of it and then interestingly enough, indicative of their relationship, is that she never really handed ferry farm over to george even though he expressed frustration with her for not executing the paperwork to give hem the farm which his father left for him. Host the next question. What was her relationship like with george . Were they close . Were they distant . Disgeorge express a little frustration with her. Guest a lot of frustration. Host tell us about the relationship between a young George Washington and his mother and then an older George Washington and his mother. Guest i suppose washington, like most of us, was in a lifetime and maybe a fruitless quest to please his mother. But she rather expected him to go out and do good things. It was expected of people of that class, that strata of virginia society, to go out and werent supposed to be wasteful. Supposed to do things and george just so happened was presided over the Continental Congress, was the commander in chief othe continental arm and then elected unanimously oprofit the United States and reelect unanimously. She took that install stride. Their relationship when he was 14, he wanted to join the british navy as a cabin boy and she wrote a letter to her brotherinlaw, who was in london, said tell me how americans are treated in the british navy and hot a scorching letter back a said under no circumstances can you allow george to become a cabin boy. The lowest rung because it was a caste system and cabe bin boys were british loyalty and then british subjects and then french, span wish, and down at the lowest rung, even below jamaicans and african slaves, were american cabin boys. They were treated the worst of all and this is at a time when Something Like a third of cabin boys died at sea. So the she gets a letter from their brotherinlaw and puts her foot dune and tells george, under in seconds can you join the british navy. So he. Host how did he take that. Guest as far as we know, based on the little information, we obviously was disappointed, obviously but he did as his mother told him to do. So this is host as well a all do eventually, right . Guest exactly. Host now. We try to. I want to read al bit from the book, something you said about mary ball , seen as a saint or veil lab, nothing in between. But in fact taken together, mary seemingly contradictory traits exempted each. Other kindness and control were one in the same. Mary washington was a woman who used a facade of motherly visual tour to cover her desire to control her sons. In the same way he led a country to break away from his his overpowering matron george lad to struggle to find independence in his own life to step away from the power of his demanding mother. Give us some examples of ways that george had to break away and prove his independence to his mother. Guest well, the one exam i gave youve about the cabin boy. Joining the british navy. Also, when he during the french and indian wars, when he was actually in british army, fighting the french and indians and the ohio valley, that she implored him not to go and he went despite her. On the other hand, he was very dutiful but delivering an allowance to her several times a year, sometimes more than several times a year. Host you say allowance, you mean part of heir salary. Guest part of his income. From his from mount vernon and other ventures he would take money to her in fredericksburg no help her make ends meet. There were contrasts and battles over property, bats over whether or not he would join the british army, british navy, but also clear that she did love him, and its clear he did love her. It was very tempessous relationship and also a loving relationship. Host our viewers can join in the conversation. Well open up regional lines for the last hour. That means if you live in the eastern or central time zone, call in at 2027488000. In the mountain or pacific time zone, your number is 2027488001 and keep in mind you can always text us your question at 2027488003, and we are always reading on social media, on twitter, cspan wy and on facebook at facebook. Com cspan. Aisle always interested in research that goes into works like this. Know the further we go back in history the hard it is to find material that helps us build these narratives. What did you work from to come up with the story of Mary Ball Washington . What information was out there about who she was and her life . Previous books and you have to glean out what you knew to be factual, believed to be factual, versus the stuff that maybe was a little bit of a stretch or had a little hole or Something Else like that. His letters. Washington was a prodigious writer of letters. Her letters some of which survive to this day. Local accounts. Letters from her children, like betty and samuel, to her, and letters from her to her children. Local newspaper accounts. Ment thirdparty accounts. An account once when some french soldiers going through fredericksburg during the American Revolution and they recorded that mary was anything but a supporter of the revolution is which is interesting because her son was leading the revolution. Host say that again. Guest the indication was that she was not all that thrilled about supporting the revolution; that she was loyal to at the British Crown, even at her own son was leading the American Revolution. There was account that some french soldiers, going through fredericksburg that noted marys indifference to whole revolution. Host now, as wore talking but, lets jump into it now, Mary Ball Washington group as a british subject. Guest british subject. Host her son is leading a rebellion against the culture she grew up in. Guest yes. Host did that cause a conflict between the two. Guest not that have been able to discover. Youre exactly right. From the time she was bornening along about 1703, 17 nobody knows when she was born, and nobody knows where she is buried. Host oh. Guest dont nowhere he grave is but know when she passed away and her proximate age. We know she died of breast cancer, he approximation age was 83 but nobody was sure. She grew up, as you said correctly, in the british culture. A british subject. She was win to the local anglican church. She grew up believing in the divine right of kings. King george ii and king george iii were the absolute head of the British Empire and she was a british subject. Now she and a lot of poo people like her are asking to forget everything they haveimmersed in for her 60 yours of her life. Everything you learn you have to unlearn. Everything youll know is wrong. You dont bow down to kings the British Parliament is not running things. Dont take your orders from par him. Well rescramble the deck and well throw off that colonial power and well become an independent nation, and this is earth shattering for a lot of people. This is before the internet and before regular newspapers, before television, radio. The forms of communication are the spoken word, written word, and newspapers and thats it. So, things moved very, very slowly but when the American Revolution happens, which goes in slow motion because the American Revolution really starts probably ten, 15 years ahead of the july 4th, 1776. The acts, the king georges edict to the american colonies not to settle the ohio valley. Is that over long period of time, ten years or more, is that the Great Britain and the parliament and the king are pushing more and more down on the american colonialists, and sometimes they withdraw the acts and sometimes they dont but finally the pot finally boils up around 1774 and then results in the declaration of independence in 1776. She is watching all this but really not involve aft all. Like a lot of people. Not involved. She never no record of her knitting socks for the American Revolution or hosting fundraisers or bundles for american members of the colonial army, nothing like that. She was a participant an observer at best. Host now, George Washington at the time was probably the most famous living american. He and ben franklin the two most famous. Was she ever in any danger during the revolution . You would think as the most famous american, the british might have sent someone to collect his mother. Guest they didnt engage in things like that, and i am not sure how widely well known she was not a supporter of the revolution. Obviously he knew but she was too busy to preoccupied with the rag tag army over seven years trying to evade british victory after victory and thats washingtons genius, keep the army together going from battle to battle. Losing many and winning a few but winning a few important ones. Host was there any contact between then general washington and his mother during the revolution. Guest no. He wrote many hers to mart that but no communication between george and mary during the seven years of the American Revolution. Host why do you think that was . Abuse he is too busy to. Guest i dont think anything nefarious. Host was there a rift. Guest i dont think nothing emerged to suggest that. Not any contemporaneous letters or diaries indicate thread was a rust between the relationships. Just that he was very busy. There are other examples, too, about how much he loved her and devoted to her he was, and he always all of his letters to her were always addressed as, honored madam. Now, it was respectful. Thats clear, but also kept her at somewhat of a arms length distance from him so correct and so formal as to keep it from being too personal. Host lets let our viewers join in this conversation. On again we are open up regional wise. Eastern or central, 202748800. In the mountain or pacific time zones, 2027488001. Lets talk to jim from tucker, georgia. Jim, good morning. Caller good morning. Good morning, youll guys. Really interesting, fascinating topic. So my question is well, i have a couple questions, and comments. First of all, you talk but the way that people communicated back then and didnt mention a town cryer. So be interested to know what how that impacts the way folks communicated back then. Regarding the relationship with his mother, thats really interesting stuff. Id like to know how the temp temperate not the movement back then but how that relationship may have affected washingtons perspective on the whiskey rebellion after he was president , and then i have id like to know well two more things. You look at the way people communicated back then and talk but his letters and things like that and thats great. People have letters to look at. But now with our with our culture now and all the ecommunications i wonder how that will affect the research. And the last thing id like to hear your comments on, how washingtons relationship with his mother may compare or contrast to president trumps relationship with his mother. Guest okay. A lot of questions. ll try to do me best, thank you, jim. I really dont know, be honest but trumps relationship with his mother. I assume most president s had very good relationships with their mother and i think thats a key indicator what type of president they would be. Obviously Abraham Lincoln spoke very kindly about nancy hanks and Sarah Roosevelt was very domineering of Franklin Roosevelt but he obviously lived with her basically his whole life even when he was president and went home in hyde park. Reagan, ive written four books, had a very, very devoted relationship with his mother so much so that when he was of age, he and his brother neil were given the choice of following their fathers religion, rom yap catholic or the mother, disciples cries and reagan win into the dedisciples os closs and neil win to the roman catholic. So he said nothing but very, very warm things. Gave her a job in hollywood in the 1940s, answering his fan mail for him. Bought hear house, bought her and her house a house. He his father a house. So i think most president s again i think this is an indicator of leadership most president s had very, very good, maybe sometimes tumultuous battling but strong relationship if with mother, Abraham Lincoln despited his father but loved his mother. Maybe how a mother raises a son is just as important if not more important than how a father raises a son. So thats one question. On temperance, washington himself was a whiskey distiller and successful at selling it. In fact theres still a distillery on the mt. Vernon property today, and he was known to have a cocktail, although he didnt no record of him drinking to drunkenness. His brother, samuel, theres some scant evidence his brother samuel had a drinking problem. So, there was no Temperance Movement in that era whatsoever. But theres no evidence either that mary ever took what they used to call spirits, that ever had a drink or high ball or cocktail. The other questions. Host those two will be enough for that. Guest all right. Host lets talk to to steve who called from wouldster, massachusetts. Caller good more. In your research im just curious, did you ever come across anything that supports the cherry tree story, the myth guest no. No. Go ahead. Caller and also had a second question. Like you to enlighten us, not only on the whiskey rebellion and also im other student of theys rebellion here and its my understanding, president washington had a bit of a disdain for back country people and i understand the bill of rights came. From the massachusetts compromise. If you could comment, first the cherry tree and i dont believe it and also bow the agrarian rebellions, perhaps his mothers fake upon president washington and his regard towards agrarians. Guest thank you. As far as the the first one host the cherry tree. Guest parson White Supremacy parson wheems was the one who came up with the cherry tree story. Theres no evidence that the cherry tree story actually happened whatsoever, but it did indicate that one thing it truce about that is that George Washington was a man of deep conviction, deep character, deep honesty and deep integrity and the story, while probably not true, is still a good parable about the type of boy George Washington was and the type of map he grew into. So still has it uses even though its not true. As far as the shays rebellion and the origin of the whiskey rebellion, after washington becomes president , hamilton goes to washington are alexander hamilton, secretary of treasury, goes to washington and says we need to pay off verious debts of various stays left over from the revolution and one way to bind the country together is to take on all the debts for the National Government and washington agrees with this. And interestingly enough, indication of how early lobbyists were operating in washington, because the tax that was levied on the whiskey distilleries laid more heavily on the small distilleries and less on the bigger devil of distilleries because the pigger disstillers could lobby washington to lay off them and the source of the whysie rebellion College World series he small dis was led the men in battle out to suppress the whiskey rebellion in rural pennsylvania and rural virginia, was that the distilleries in order to escape the tax, simply left the United States and moved into kentucky and tennessee. Which is why you host then not part of the United States. Guest not part of the United States but now because all these fine whiskeys and bourbons and ryes and scotchs are made in tennessee and kentucky, because they left the United States to escape the taxes imposed by he whistle ski rebellion by the whiskey tax. Host we talk about Mary Ball Washington and a young George Washington. We talk about Mary Ball Washington and general George Washington. What was at the relationship like between president George Washington and Mary Ball Washington. Guest a great question. He is chosen as president of the United States, and he has got to go to new york now. New york being the First Capital of the United States. Has to go there to assemble a government, assume the duties as the first chief executive but before he does leave from mt. Vernon he makes one last trip to fredericksburg and he goes knowing his mother is dying of cancer. She knows she is dying of cancer. There or two do contemporaneous accounts of letters that the meeting, the last meeting between the two of them was very, very tender, very, very warm, and she basically acknowledged his finally acknowledged what he had done in his life had been great, and she basically gave her blessings to go to new york, to assume the office of president of the United States, and to do what he had to do to pull the country together. So by all conditions his last meeting with her was a very warm one. Now he is in new york, and several months later he gets a letter and of course from pennsylvania, to new york city, a letter by horse or by carriage takes a week, two weeks, Something Like that, and he is told that his mother passed away, and he goes into a room by himself for Something Like three hours, obviously grief stricken at the loss of his mother. So, it was at the end, all the old animosities, all the old battles hads fallen away and just the love of a mother and the love of a son. Host did president George Washington was he able to attend a funeral or service for his mother . Guest no. No. He wall phillyed for that but pillory for thad. Host by who. Guest by gossips. Host media. Guest i dont know newspapers saying myth. Mary one or two but i dont recall. Host other people. Guest yeah. Just but, again, he was a victim of distance. From 350 miles from fredericksburg to new york and thats most by the time he heard a week or so later. Guest exactly. By the time he herd she had already been buried. Not recorded when the day she was buried but it was recognized and was celebrated and matter of fact, collection quickly took up in fredericksburg to establish a monument, large on blixt to honor her with her name on the side in fredericksburg and went up partially and then sat uncompleted for many years, and then finally later on, matter of fact i think Andrew Jackson who laid the dedicated the monument and then but but wasnt finished for many years but it i finished today. Host lets talk to don from durham, north carolina. Don, good morning. Caller yes. Good morning. I want to know if mr. Shirley had any background or information he came across in terms of the future slave act law being created because in new york had different rules on inden inden sure see franz and freed and the white house being moved to washington, dc because of that, the book called never caught by a sister named armstrong, i believe, talk about his pursuit of a runway slave. Second, any commentary he has on the use of africans on the british and american side to win the war because ultimatesly George Washington had to use african men to win the war, africanans who wanted to be free from slavery because the american men or british descent or soing for were dropping out of the war. They were leaving and abandoning the post. Guest ill admit that my knowledge on the fugitive on runway slave act is not what it should be. Slavery was obviously an important part of American Society in and culture in the 1700 and 1800s. Ferry farm where mary operated and grew crops, had 20 slaves, several house slaves in her house in fredericksburg. Washington of course had well over 300 slaves, who he freed on his death bed. And there is again i didnt get into this but i am aware that africanamericans served in both the british arm where and the american army, and i believe that there was some promises made of freedom if they serve in the American Revolution. It was dying as an institution as we know until the invention of the cotton gin the 1820s. So im not as well versed on that issue as i should be, but theres no doubt that they were entire woven and intertwined for 300 years. Host what was the relationship like between Mary Ball Washington and martha washington. And George Washington marries martha and i believe on his death, president washington said his slaves could be released after ma marthas death. So the slaves went to martha and then after ma marthas death they could be free. What was relationson between Mary Ball Washington and martha washington. Guest theres some evidence it was not good mary did not taped their marriage but that could have been bus of distance. Host mary did not taped george and martha residents marthas wedding. Guest that could have been distance. Oregon, one time washington wrote a letter to his motherinlaw, marthas mother and said please come to visit news mt. Vernon we have lots of food, lots of visitors, lots of room, lots of music and youll have a great time. Tim he writes a letter to his mother saying dough visit itself us a mt. Vernon, too many people here, not enough food, the music is too loud. Very clear huh he felt. Guest exactly. Host did Mary Ball Washington ever good to mt. Vernon. Guest no. Before his Brother Lawrence when his Brother Lawrence own he ryu rye named it mt. Vernon. Before that is was known as Little Hunting Creek and there is some evidence they mary may have again there to plead with george not to go join the british army and fight in the ohio valley, to fight in the french and indian wars, but its very scant evidence. Tend to believe she never visit mt. Vernon. Host book to the callers, rick from las cruces, new mexico, good morning. Caller good morning. I would like, mr. Shirley to comment on anything he knows about those allowances he mentioned that George Washington provided his mother. I seem to have read somewhere he expected those to be paid back and viewed those as loops. Loans. Guest he wrote them down in his diaries, very meticulous about all of this transactions and his acreage and what was being prices, potatoes and tobacco and other things like that. Im not sure i recall them being he may have listed them at debts but i dont think he ever expected to be repaid because the didnt have the knock repay him. Plus he felt like it was his duty to give miss mother these allowances, and they varied from time to time. Sometimes they were larger, sometimes smaller, but interestingly enough the last time they met which i messenger el mention evidence earlier he brought the last time they pet before he went to new york to become president , he took an allowance to his mother and she refused it saying that, no, she is would fine, she had enough money. So it was clearly in her mind it was not something he owed her, not something she demanded but giving it out of the kindness of his heart and may he have recorded as a debt but never expected to collect on them. Host lets talk to martha from charleston, south carolina. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for another great book. Im looking forward to reading it. Guest thank you. And a previous caller mentioned never caught by Erica Armstrong dunbar, the story of George Washington pursuing ona judge, the slave that ran away in philadelphia to freedom, because ona judge was Martha Washingtons helper in everything she did, and so george really pursued that. Its an amazing history. Its a National Book award. Thanks to cspan, i read it and bought it and im going to buy your book. I want to know, did george visit his mother in fredericksburg and did is there a possibility that maybe his mother destroyed the letters that may have been exchanged during the controversial revolutionary war, any anything like that. Guest thats a good point. Very, very possibly. We know that martha destroyed all the hers to george wrote her which is invaluable history lost and many, many letters that george wrote martha that she burn after his passing. Its very possible that mary destroyed letters but theres no evidence that anybody he wrote at any one time. So, who is to say. Host we have one of our social media followers who wants to know what was Mary Ball Washingtons view on slavery. Guest well, she was a person in her time. She was a person in her culture. Is that she never expressed any type of opposition to it or anything i could fine or any type of regret. She simply accepted it. She had her house slaves. There were slaves at ferry farm. And it was just a part of the culture of fredericksburg and virginia in colonial america. Especially in the south. Host did she inherit here slaves not inherit did her slaves come through her marriage or did she inhair them through her from her parents. Guest she inherited gravity point when her parents died, she inherited several slaves and then when her husband died she inherited more slaves. Host but do we know, did she go out and actively purchase more slaves guest no. Host or all inherit . I believe theyre all inhaired. Thats something a woman in that culture and time would have done anyway. It would have been done by one of her sons or fa emily friend family friend or george but theres no evidence. One of those missing gaps of history as to how she obtained the slaves a than through inheritance. Host back to our callers. Fred who is calling from burgess, virginia good, morning. Caller good morning. I would like to find out the circumstances of Mary Ball Washington moving from George Washingtons birth place to ferry farms. I never knew but that move until i retired and moved to to virginia and have visited both but adopt know the circumstances. Guest talk about where George Washingtons birthplace was. Simply a matter of, i believe, of convenience because after augustine died, she needed to be near more easily obtain food and safer setting than rural part of virginia. It was just she was getting on in years. So it would have made sense for her to move to fredericksburg host a little more from your book here. You say in your book. For all marys fog faith and devotion her motherly love may have been as much bought authority as affection. Thus that George Washington came to manhood under the maternal hand as he wrote of Mary Ball Washington, made him the man he was, stubborn, singular, awe inspiring inspiring and independent. So how should we remember Mary Ball Washington . Whoa be her place in American History . Guest i think her place in American History should be as the woman who raised the man who became the most important person in america. When george at the enof the American Revolution, george goes to the Continental Congress in baltimore, annapolis, and goes and makes a short speech and lays down his sword, surrendering his command and goes back to fredericksburg. When king george iii that is told that George Washington laid down his sword to become a planter he said he will be regarded as the greatest man in the world, and that was the king of england, the head of the British Empire who is saying George Washington would be e. R. A. As the greatest man the world. High praise, incredibly high praise, and clear, its clear that these qualities, the integrity, honest, courage, mod city, two term limit. Wasnt mandated by law, washington says two terms enough and that becomes the standard of all american president s until Franklin Roosevelt. Where did he get these from . Clearly from his mother. So she should be regarded as not as the founder of the america, nothing like that but simply the inspiration for the founding of america or one of the great inspirations for the founding of america. Thats really why i wanted to write the book, ohio has been so unkind to her over the last 250, 300 years. Host you said glory our conversation that there was a monument to Mary Ball Washington that Andrew Jackson did the dedication for. Right. Guest right. Host are there any other mon. S, any other things name after Mary Washington. Guest Mary Washington university in fredericksburg. Host named directly after her. Guest yes. There is the library in lancaster. There are various streets in fredericksburg named after her. She is being and by the way, Fredericksburg Baseball team, the nationals, the mineyear league team that is owned by the Washington Nationals just duop it Mary Ball Washington as their mascot. So, they made a care caricature of her pitching a ball to george and george hitting it with an axe that chopped down the cherry tree so she get petting more and more recognize now that she deserves. Host bill from cromwell, connecticut. Good morning. Guest good morning me. Question for you guest is, he said George Washingtons mother was come conflicted of the relationship with england, was george conflicted. Guest oh, sure. There were ovations made on behalf of the United States, the colony, to Great Britain, to try to keep there was i think the olive Branch Initiative to get parliament and king George George xliii could alive off the taxes taxes and they would keep the crown. George washington was immersed in the culture, also british subject, also envious of his brother who served in the british navy, respectful. Took a long time for americans to throw off the British Crown and declare themselves free and independent as do no longer subject of the British Crown. I would say a biography is straight fax him a 100 fax. Because 100 of the facts are not available, youve got to fill it in with educated speculation with educated guesses but its very very minimal i was 80 is 20 factbased, the other 20 is based on educated percolation so what you know as an expert doing your research. Exactly. Okay. Lets talk to richard who is calling from albuquerque new mexico. Richard, good morning. Good morning. We talk about history here and on the time of George Washington weve seen about the abtaxes and the tariffs and all that. I just want you to get it right for everybody because i feel like you are a very good historian. Thank you thats very kind. Were not related are we . [laughter] lets talk about the slavery issue, back then in washington, that was the norm for everybody but when Abraham Lincoln came in to be president , can you explain to everybody over here that Abraham Lincoln, the purpose of everything that went down in the civil war was because of the tariffs and the taxes when the south wanted to separate themselves from the union and along came with it to treat the slaves but it was all about the tariffs and the taxes. President lincoln knew the dangers if the confederates separate themselves from the union they be epmaking themselv really strong by not giving to the whole United States. Can you please straighten out everybody that thinks that it was because of the war to free slavery . That wasnt the issue, it was because of the taxes and the tariffs and everything. Im not an expert on Abraham Lincoln but i think the debate was settled many many years ago that the civil war was about civil rights. It was about freedom for africanamericans. It was the very foundation of the Republican Party selected in 1,860. Obviously lincoln ran in 1,816 on limiting slavery but he quickly evolved into an abolitionist and thats what the war was about. How long did it take you to write this book . How long was the research . How long was the righty . It took about four years and the way i start is that first of all getting contract from a publisher which always helps. The same with all my books is that i try to assemble as much information as possible and immerse myself in the information and then break up the information start sketching out the chapters as to what i think and i like to let chronologically because i think it makes it more interesting for the treader and more logic than jumping around here and there. This book is about marys birth, marys life, marys death. And everything that happened in between. My books on regular bartha origins of the 80 campaign the conclusions of the 80 campaign. My book on december 1,941 is about the 31 days of december and how it changed the United States before pearl harbor and after pearl harbor. I assemble as much information asas possible and i read it, i digested i talk about it i think about it and typically what i would do is that each morning i will assimilate new information read in the afternoon then in the evening i give what ive written to my wife serene, she patents all my books. Everything i write, serena edits. In my oped too. So in the evening she will edit the various pages ive written, give it to be the next morning and i will then take her edits and put it in what ive written her corrections and then i will start the whole process again n and start the whole process again. We usually do that, i dont typically work on the weekends but we have a routine edit research right edit research right edit research right. For me the rhythm, i can jump out of a book and jump into it but i prefer to say with the book from beginning to end until i finish it in this book took four years. All my s. Books on reagan took three or four years my book on world war ii december 1,941 took three years to my book on Newt Gingrich just three years, my books typically take 3 to 4 years. And you are able to be edited by your wife and stay married. It actually i know, we joke about that, ive discovered the habits of other writers and their wives, mark twain wrote most of, in hartford, he was in the thirdfloor little den office and he drew a chalk line across the floor and nobody was allowed to cross that chalk line not his daughters not the maids, the only one that could cross the chalk line with his wife olivia to edit his work. Im trying to think of the writer, walter mitty. Now that you said that it totally has gone out of my mind. James thurber was 1920s was at one of those blacktie soirces in new york city with champagne popping and people laughing and food and good times and thurber is staring off into space. Finally his wife, finally she yells at him and says, james, stop writing. Because he was riding in his head. And you probably do the same thing i do the same thing. Thats one of the things i learned is that you have to become the book which means you thinking about it all the time. You got it. We would like to thank craig ewshirley for being with us today. He has his new book which is martha aMary Ball Washington. Thank you very much. Here is a look at some authors who have recently appeared or will be appearing soon on booktv afterwards. Recently university of maryland Baltimore County for free mentor belsky shared his insights on building an innovative university. Coming up, Peggy Orenstein examines the role of sex in the lives of young men. And this weekend on afterwards abreporter Steven Greenhouse examines the challenges American Workers face today. Only people had no idea what unions are what unions do and how unions help bring us the 40 hour workweek and bring us pensions and the Bumper Sticker union folks who brought us the weekend. I wanted to explain to people unions have achieved a whole lot in American History that now they are really in decline they been taking on the chin as a result things are considerably worse for workers i believe that was the case 30 to 40 years ago. Afterwards airs saturdays at 10 00 p. M. And sundays at 9 00 p. M. Eastern and pacific on book tv on cspan 2. All previous afterwards are available as podcasts and to watch online at booktv. Org. At a recent event held at the American Enterprise institute in Washington Dc National review editor rich lowry offered his thoughts on math nationalism. The book was occasioned by truck. I hadnt really thought much about nationalism, i sort of shared the lazy assumption that its a dirty word until trumps inaugural address which got me thinking about it a little more deeply. I think what is happened is democrats although they have a nationalist tradition in their not so distant past totally turned their back on it have gone toward cosmopolitan progressivism and the Republican Party also lost touch with nationalism i think under the influence of libertarianism that values markets over borders. Under the influence of a Business Elite thats a little more transnational in orientation the national Samuel Huntington till late social scientist talked about how in the 19th century we had Business Innovations and technological changes that created a National Affiliation alatitude over and above local attachments and local affiliations in the late 20s and 21st century that the same kind of Technological Innovations and business changes have created more of a transnational attitude. And finally, george w. Bush was overly idealistic emphasis on his Foreign Policy ethic all of that met the party lost touch with nationalism to some extent. You had this baton on the floor and trump picks it up impulsively instinctively, accidentally, whatever it is, that accounts for a lot of debate but it goes deeper than trump. Brexit was a major event that happened before the election of donald trump and it just goes to the question the eu the petcn takes in the eu think its nationalism in the nation state that cause the agony of europe in the 20th century and those forces had to be effaced and subsumed into a neoimperial project that has a dream of united europe and goes back to rome charlemagne Napoleon Hitler even, obviously much more benign and mild version then those britain when faced with the question should some significant part of your sovereignty be run out of brussels or should be run out of westminster answer westminster . Thats a nationalistic answer and goes to hell this is a broader phenomenon then just trump even though trump is obviously driving the debate. If trump is driving the debate does that mean the case for nationalism has to somehow bear the burden of tropism . You have to answer for some of the things about tropism that are what you want to suggest in the book are not nationalism or should it be associated with nationalism. Yes. Definitely. I think with trump if you get trump on the teleprompter and you listen to some of the things he said at the un some of the things he said in poland and the warsaw speech i think they are unassailable. I think they are deeply true his public speech i believe is the best speech of his presidency and advance the idea that even though owen sits in the worst place you can in europe it has been serially overrun by foreign occupying armies and partitioned over the years and subjected to the unspeakable wars during the 20th century, poland is never gone away because of what in essence, because the polls are so polish, thats the essence of poland. The one common strain there might be between russo and trout. Ruth abwrote at the time when poland was occupied by russia, stick to your tradition, stick to your moray, stick to your culture and the art will never be able to absorb you and thats been completely true. I think its a deep and moving truth. The problem obviously with trump is that once he gets off the teleprompter and in the wild its nothing like this. You can come up with many examples, just two months ago briefly at war with the city of baltimore he tweeted no human being would want to live in west baltimore. Human beings live in west baltimore. In Donald Trumps is the head of state of the United States of america. In just too often this is not seem to make any impression on him. To watch the rest of this talk and find out other cspan appearances by rich lowry. Visit our website booktv. Org and search his name at the top of the page. Click tonight on booktv and primetime university of Oklahoma History professor Wilford Mcclay provides a one volume history of United States. New York University journalism professor Pamela Newkirk examines the effectiveness of diversity programs political analyst selena zito looks at the 2,020 election labor reporter Steven Greenhouse discusses the challenges American Workers face today Vanderbilt University professor Brian Fitzpatrick offers his thoughts on classaction lawsuits. Thats all airing tonight starting at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan two booktv, check the Program Guide for more information. [applause] how are you doing, im