Many, many other books. His many additional awards include a Pulitzer Prize for journalism, the george polk award and the military Library Literature award. He is a former staff writer in Senior Editor at the washington post. He is the author of the british are coming, the war for america, and i will stop there and move on the Brenda Wineapple who is the author of several books that you know, including the ecstatic nation, confidence, 18481877 which was named a best book of the 2013 by the new york times. Shes a member of the American Academy of arts and sciences and society of american historian. Shes also a regular contributor to major publications such as the new york times, book review, the new york review of books, the wall street journal and the nation. Her Extensive Research in the impeachers has evoked a pivotal period of American History with our country was rocked by the first ever impeachment of a a sitting american president. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Rick Atkinson and Brenda Wineapple. [applause] thanks very much. Thanks for inviting me to be with you today in miami. I wont speak long because i know we want to get onto impeachment. [laughing] the last time i was in miami to talk about a book i just finished the guns at last light which was the third and final volume of a a trilogy i wrote about the american role in the liberation of europe in world war ii. And even then in 2013 and that project took me 15 years, i was wondering what to do next and the obviously what event to pivot to the pacific and do for that campaign what id ive dor the mediterranean and western european campaigns but i didnt have a heart for it. It would require me to start world war ii all over again in pearl harbor or even earlier. And besides they could not shake the personal fascination that ive had with an earlier century and early were the knife at since i was a kid and that the completed the first volume of what hope to be another trilogy, knock wood, the british are coming opens with an extended prologue in june 1773 when king george iii travel to portsmouth in the Southern Coast of england for a fourday review of the royal navy. Which together revived american hopes and seems all but extinguished at that point. Let me suggest theres a lot to dislike about the Founding Fathers and the war they wage for american independence. The assertion all men are created equal did not apply to 500,000 black slaves, one of five of all citizens, all residents of the 13 colonies when their fine words were penned in 1776, nor was a valid for native americans or women or indigence for the eightyear duration of the American Revolution those who remained loyal to the British Crown and even since astronomers were uncertain of the wisdom of armed rebellion against their government were subjected to dreadful treatment, public shaming, disenfranchisement, confiscation, beatings, torture, exile and sometimes execution. Partisan belligerents metastasized into civil war. John adam said i would have hanged my own brother had it taken part with our enemies in the contest. In a defensive war waged for liberty and to secure basic rights, the american promptly invaded canada. In an attempt to win by force of arms what could not be one by negotiation, a 14th color. This was a first but hardly the last American Invasion of another land under the pretext of veterans life for the invaded. The enduring image of a yeoman farmer leaving his plow to grab his musket and go off in defense of liberty is mostly mythical. General George Washingtons army was rarely larger than 20,000 men and sometimes a small as 3000 come in a the country of 2. 5 million people. Especially after the initial marshal enthusiasms that were roused at lexington and concord and bunker hill faded in 1775 relatively few american men volunteered for military service especially if it involves enlisting for the duration in the badly armed, badly fed and too often badly led continental army. And yet who would deny that the creation of of her founding remained valid, vivid and often thrilling . Even in 2019 any moment when National Unity is elusive with our partisan rank seems ever more toxic, when the simple concept of truth is assailed, story and form so are, what are forebearers believed and press the most profound question, any people can ask themselves, what they were willing to die for. Indeed at least 25,000 25,000 s died for the cause, possibly many more. A large proportion of our population to perish in any of our wars other than the civil war. What can we learn from that ancient quarrel . First, that this nation was born bickering. [laughing] it in the national genome. Second, the our foundational truths that not only are indeed true but are self evident. Third, leaders worthy of our enduring admiration rise to the occasion with grit and wisdom and grace, and fourth, whatever trials the set as today weve overcome greater perils before, existential perils. I should be of great comfort to us. We are the beneficiaries of an enlightened political heritage, handed down to us from that revolutionary generation after many subsequent trials. It includes strictures on how to divide power and to keep it from accumulating in the hands of those who think primarily of themselves. We cannot let that heritage slip away. We cannot allow it to be taken away. We cannot be oblivious to this Priceless Gift where the hundreds of thousands who have given their lives for the past 240 years to a to affirm assisted. The American Revolution was not a war between regimes or dynasties fought for the usual territory or commercial advantages but rather an improvised struggle between two peoples of the common heritage who had gradually become sundered by divergent values and conflicting visions of what the world could be. The americans eventually won by embracing fewer strategic misconceptions than the british did. The rebels could be wrongheaded in believing for example, that greater economic leverage over the mother country than actually possess. Or in caricaturing george iii is that on his throne for six years and was shrewder, more complex and more admirable than the overbearing ninny who still dominates our imaginations and even tonight will be mincing across the state somewhere in hamilton. [laughing] yet george and his ministers made three critical miscalculations. One that most colonists remained loyal to the crown notwithstanding troublemakers in new england capable of rousing rabble. Two, for ms. Including military firepower would intimidate and restore homey, three, failed to restore londons authority in america would eventually and stitched the newly created british empire, encouraging insurrections in canada, ireland, the sugar islands of the west indies, india. Its an 18th century version of the domino theory that would propel us into vietnam 150 years later. Britain also underestimate the difficulty of waging a protracted war across 3000 miles of open ocean in the age of sail for eight years as it turned out. British army in the revolution unable to gather food and forage from the american countryside without being ambushed had to rely on provision shift almost entirely from english and irish ports but a 40 transport vessel sent to boston in the winter of 1775, 76 and only eight of those 40 ships actually reached the kings forces in boston. The rest were blown by gales in the west indies or are blown bk to britain or intercepted by rebel marauders. When a british moved to new york a year later in the summer 1776 and asked for 950 horses to be shipped to them so they could move their artillery carriages and supply wagon so they could go anywhere, of those 950 horses that were sent from britain, 412 died in the passage across the atlantic. Similar difficulties plagued the british for years. Even when the american rebels are fighting on their home turf in the revolution they faced enormous logistical difficulties. Difficulties. Ill give you one example. Salt. Without salt, armies and navys could not cure the beef and fish and pork that they needed to carry with them so they could move anywhere. Two bushels of salt, more than 100 pounds, were needed to care 1000 pounds of pork. Before the war americans imported 15 million bushels of the stuff, half from the west indies, half from britain and sevenyear period when the shooting started British Trade embargo strangled twothirds of that supply to encourage salt war along the coast. Recipes were put in newspaper on how to make so. The women and children have gone down to the jersey shore to make salt john adams wrote in his diary. Or hundred gallons of see what i needed to boil off a single bushel some enormous supply of firewood. Virginia spent more than 6000 pounds to build evaporation pots along the Chesapeake Bay but in the end they collected only 50 bushels. Probably the most expensive salt in the history of salt. Let me talk about george, are lasting. Hes an intriguing adversary. Queen elizabeth ii only recently opened up to outside scrutiny the George Georgian papers, a project to catalog and digitize all georges he became king. 350,000 pages most of them present unpublished, most of them from the reign of george ge iii and i was among the first allowed in to take a look for an entire month, april 2016. Every morning i would show my badge and clip 102 stone steps and 21 wooden stairs to the care of the round tower began by william the conqueror in the 11th century. There are the papers, gorgeous, oversized red binders or george was his own secretary until late in life when he began to go blind and he will not only most of his correspondence and so. He made the copies himself. As you go through these pages, theres a tactical sense of being in his presence. Among other thinks hes a great list maker. Lists a of british garrisons abroad from 1764 1775. Of royal navy vessels under construction in various shipyards. Of all his regiment in america with a number of offices, rank and file for each tabulated with his arithmetic scratchings in the margins as he does his sums. George copied at his own recipes for cough syrup. Ill get you some. [laughing] rosemary, rice, vinegar, brown sugar all boiled in silver, and insecticide, wormwood, vinegar, line, quicksilver. He married an obscure drab german Princess Charlotte as in charlotte, north carolina, charlottesville, virginia, church allegedly not save the king on the harpsichord on the voyage from germany to england. They married six hours after they met. He of the marriage bed decorated with 700 yards of blue damask and large basins of goldfish. Because nothing says i love you like a bowl of goldfish. [laughing] the happy union proved fertile. To produce children with lunar regularity come eventually the number 15. And we see in a personal correspondence that george is a caring father. Hes invested in the rearing of his kids. Through all the secrets they got the proper course for the empire, for the monarchy, and for his people. Hes enough to dislike but impossible i find to detest simply to dismiss as a reactionary autocrat. The war he chooses to wage adages is to wage it because he is the hardest of hardliners in london, is brutal, bloody and often savage. Unlike modern war killing in the 18th century, is usually intimate, a close range, often with a bayonet. Thats partly 18th century muskets were mostly inaccurate biot adrs and almost hopeless beyond 100 yards. Scholars have calculated in the fight at lexington, concord and a bridge retreat to boston on april 19, 1775, the first of the war, the rebels fired at least 75,000 rounds only one in every 300 bullets actually hit a red coat. The shot heard round the world probably missed. [laughing] poses some of the nuts and bolts of 18th century but what of the emotional guts of the revolution . Thats what still moves us and stirs our pride and makes us feel that those people from more than two centuries ago have something to say to us. To be sure we admire those americans for their entrance, their tenacity, sacrifice not on display by men serving in the ranks but by others, up in the front events of those times. Lois peters of connecticut had not seen her husband captain Nathan Peters in months when she wrote to him, pray come hope this is possibly a visit from you at any time would be agreeable. Meanwhile, she would harvest the corn, sell the oxen were enough cash to keep the family saddlery solvent, so a shirt and take great pleasure to meet and keep faith with the future. She signed her letters your loving wife until dead. [laughing] general nathaniel great makes one of the worst operational decisions of the war. Hes a quaker anchor smith, rhode island. He waits 3000 soldiers exposed and vulnerable at Fort Washington on the Upper West Side of Manhattan Island where in the space of eight hours on november 16, 1776 they are trapped and killed or captured. Green picks himself up, takesa deep breath and rights to his wife, the virtue of the americans is put to a test. I am hardy and will i miss all the hardships. Be of good courage. Dont be distressed. All things will turn out for the best. Be of good courage, he speaking to us, to you, and to you. He is certainly speaking to me. The central figures in our Creation Stories africa only been involved in reference nonetheless remain worthy of our perpetual scrutiny and often of emulation. Washington is a case in point. Yes, he owned more than 300 slaves when he died at mount vernon and 7099. You cannot square that circle morally. He demonstrated shortcomings as a tactical commander at long island, washington and elsewhere. The man who could never tell a lie, sure could prevaricate. Washingtons lot in life i distrust everything he wrote in 1776, transforms the demagogue into sometimes petulant mortal yet great responsibility enlarges him. He rightly embodies the sacrifices of personal interest to a greater good as well as other republican virtues, probity, dignity, moral stamina, incorruptibility, traits that should remain true north for every citizen today. Traits we should demand in our leaders at all levels. [applause] it embodied the enduring aspirations of an idealistic people and brought forth a nation abounding with a sense of destiny. No wonder the world was agog. Thomas paine wrote, the cause of all mankind even now the war for independence offers clues into our national temperament. It remains a bright mirror in which we see traits that fashioned the american character from ingenuity and resilience to brutality and pugnacity. We have come for an almost two and half centuries in power, diversity, tolerance and sheer scale, but in some respects those ancestors remain nearer than we know. Their struggle turned up issues that perplexed as to the state including individual liberty versus elective security, the proper limits on executive power, the obligations of citizenship and the elusive quest for a more Equitable Society and the primal question of 1776, the persist in 2019, who do do we want to be . Democracy is never a thing done. Poet and library of congress Archibald Mcleish told us the market always something a nation must be doing, even jeffersons declaration, our foundation secular scripture, we hold these truths to be selfevident is dynamic. Its never done, nation must be doing. A historian wrote the create deductive men and women equality but invited them to claim, and by them not to know the place and keep it but to seek and demand a better place. The American Revolution lasted 3089 days and the result was ethical and enduring. The creation of the American Republic among mankind most remarkable achievements. Nearly 90,000 more days have elapsed since those horse fly swatting men sitting in philadelphia asserted a human birth right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Keeping faith with those who fought, suffered and died for the principles we profess to still cherish requires more than a nodding acquaintance with them, more than a perfunctory acknowledgment of their struggles, for better and for worse, their story is our story. Their fight remains our fight. Thanks so much. Thank you. [applause] brenda. Quite a pleasure to be here and what a pleasure to be with Rick Atkinson and what a pleasure to talk about yet another war. But this one going to talk about the aftermath of the war and accord to talk about it, the impeachment of Andrew Johnson which seems to be in one sense, forgetting at a johnson, a timely topic. And, in fact, a friend of mine recently called me a which for having started this book, the impeachers six years ago when were deep in the Obama Administration and impeachment was on very few minds, they be mine, my husband and my editor. So really the interesting question behind what im going to talk to about today is really why i began investigating the impeachment of Andrew Johnson. Why i started it all. And in some sense one of the things i think, im going to skip to the end to relate to something what rick said, is the impeachment suggested to me when i came to understand it, a sense of the enduring aspirations of this particular country, and especially since it happened in the aftermath of a very, very brutal war, a tragic war in many, many senses. But what was peculiar to me when i began that there were so few books written about the impeachment of Andrew Johnson. And if anyone knew anything about that particular episode that happened very close on the heels of the war, all they knew at the time was that the trial had been referred to in a 1956 book by john f. Kennedy or presumably by john f. Kennedy or ted sorting, depending on your point of view about it, called profiles in courage and in that particular book, one chapter was devoted to a republican, and republican but what is a Different Party said it is today, but republican who stood against his party and cast the deciding vote to acquit Andrew Johnson of impeach, well, you know, to keep them in office at the end of the trial. And for kennedy this was a profile in courage because this particular man, his name was edman, a senator from kansas who cast the deciding vote. It seemed very odd to me i would also seemed odd to me is that kennedy then wrote that the actual cause for which the president johnson was impeached and then tried was not fundamental to the nation. And that sort of perplexed me, particularly because it seemed to me an possible that an impeachment, the first ever president ial impeachment that occurred that on right after the civil war but after the first ever president ial assassination, that that could not that that was not somehow essential to the welfare of the nation. And in this particular context really, what the book also said was that the reason johnson was impeached was because there were some fanatics, called radicals, who really wanted to victimize the president and victimize the south. This particular point of view as i came to understand it actually was born it seems to me partly from gw griffiths movie, the birth of a nation, where the leader of the opposition to Andrew Johnson a man named Thaddeus Stevens was cast as a diabolically bent on destroying and humiliate this out and even his clubfoot was thought to be a sign of the devil. But if you think of the context as i said of the aftermath of war, i think you have to reconsider what might have happened. Because Andrew Johnson and the entire country faced in 1865 serious questions about the direction the country would take, and in particular what terms with the 11 seceded states of the former confederacy be allowed to reenter the union . In other words, should the 11 states that it waged war against the union be welcomed back into the house and the senate as if they had never seceded . What were the terms for reentry . And remember, Congress Gets to decide the qualifications of its own members. Andrew johnson, when he came to be present after the assassination, refused to call a special session of congress to decide these matters and decided to, in fact, established, reestablished Southern State government pretty much singlehandedly by executive proclamation. And furthermore, he argued that since the constitution for this secession, and union had never been dissolved. Thats like saying, Thaddeus Stevens said, because murder is against the law, lincoln was never assassinated. They simply had to renounce secession, except the abolition of slavery and swear allegiance to the federal government. But that leaves a very important question, that no one seemed to be thinking about even in 1956 what about the 4 million black men and women recently freed but who had been deprived during their life of even the ability to read and write . What about their civil rights . Shouldnt this newly freed population be able to control their education, employment, the representation in government . Republicans, white republicans and black leaders asked. Were not the citizens . Andrew johnson answered the question. He was heard to say, this is a country from white men, and by god, as long as i am president , it shall be a government of and for white men. Whats really astonishing when he said that in 1865, it was as astonishing as it is today. Once johnson then got into the white house, he not only started reestablishing Southern State governments based on white supremacy, but by executive order, he started pardoning confederates about a rate of 10000 a day and he vetoed what Congress Passed was the civil rights bill which restored the legal and property right restored legal rights to black citizens engaged in the citizenship or. Instead, what johnson did was restore the Property Rights of the confederates and sorry, authorized the return to government post. What white southerners then use this handsoff policy to concoct a a new form of states rights which they called home rules. And in one state legislature after another they began passing black codes, ordinances designed to prevent freed men and women from owning property, traveling freely, making contracts and a joint any form of civil rights due process. They elected so many former confederates to high office that for example, the Louisiana State legislature was called the rebel legislature. The police were organized as a de facto state militia, and in new orleans to take one particular brutal example, confederate veterans made up twothirds of the 550 manned force. In the summer of 1866, within hours after congressional Constitutional Congress was organized in new orleans, black men were executed pointblank by this Confederate Police force love annealed and pray for the lives, and their corpses were kicked and stabbed. W. E. B. Du bois concluded that reconstruction in louisiana was a continuation of the civil war. That was in 1866. Johnson had not been in office for a long, but what he was doing at that point was touring the south to rally support for himself and to rally support against the passage of the ratification of the 14th amendment, which congress had hammered together to enshrine civil rights legislation into the constitution. During the trip, the swing around the circle, he went on a tear yelling that congressman who disagreed with them should be hanged or executed in other ways. Ulysses s. Grant was so mortified that he went on a bender and they had to lock him in the baggage car so nobody would see him. But the decision to impeach Andrew Johnson did not come easily or quickly. James ashley, a republican who was disgusted by johnsons behavior, his abuse of power,y his denial of the legitimacy of congress, because johnson said if the 11 Confederate States were not seated, then congress could not pass any laws and, in fact, by that logic the 13th amendment abolishing slavery was also not legitimate. People like james ashley were so disgusted by this that he called for johnsons impeachment as i said in 1867. The matter went to the Judiciary Committee, to buy time and the Judiciary Committee launched a long investigation that basically went nowhere. Part of the reason was at the time, then like now, no one knew what the impeachment of the president of the United States would look like or what were the sufficient grounds, legal or otherwise, that were necessary. A conviction we know requires the person being removed from office but as for further punishment we dont even know what the convicted person may or may not be prosecuted by law. Originally the crime warranting impeachment was maladministration, but James Madison had objected the term was too hazy. All we know then as high crimes and misdemeanors, treason or bribery are the grounds for impeachment, and impeachment takes a majority vote in the house. But this question still remains. Does the president have to commit demonstrably illegal acts to be impeached . Should not a man in a position of power be held accountable for his actions . Should deplorable, bigoted, or reckless acts be considered impeachable, particularly if they weakened or flooded other branches of government . In federalist 65, as you probably know by now, Alexander Hamilton clarified sort of come he said a high crime is an abuse of executive authority proceeding from an abuse or violation of some public trust. Impeachment is therefore a National Inquest into the conduct of public men. But that is fuzzy again. Our impeachments still to proceed because violations of law or infractions against that murky thing called public trust . Andrew johnson was impeached in 1868 finally because he actually violated a law. Congress had sought for a long time, for four years of johnsos administration, to thwart his violet supremacist policies with legislation that overall had been moderate. Its civil rights legislation have not conferred political rights, neither did the 14th amendment which as i said was passed in order to enshrine those rights and whose ratification as a mention johnson had tried to stop. Congress then passed three reconstruction acts to rain johnson further in and to create what they consider to be a new, fair, enlightened country. They wanted to consolidate the achievement of the civil war by actually conferring, Voting Rights and black men, forget women, they dont come until the 20th century. But johnson said, conferring these right would weaken, the grade, and finally destroy the government. But allowing white southerners to rejoin the union quickly while at the same time denying black men devote seemed too many republicans, black and white, of replanting the seed of rebellion, or so they objected, which within the next quarter of a century will germinate and produce the same bloody strife which has just ended. In other words, we need to pass legislation to make sure that theres equal representation in the country. It also passed a tenure of office act of dubious constitutionality, which resumed to protect the secretary of war, edward stanton, who is protecting the military, who is protecting black men in white republicans at the polls. Thats what johnson did. He violated that particular law. He broke the law. Dont longer did the house have a choice. It felt it voted overwhelmingly to undertake the extraordinary steps, the first ever impeachment of a president. Johnson was subsequently tried in the senate and as a mention acquitted only one vote. No, impeachment was not a mistake an incident in American History. It really did have to do with the direction the country was going to take and, in fact, the tenure of office act violation was not really why johnson was impeached. Beyond it was the recognition even by those who had been reluctant in features, that impeachment was absolutely crucial to the nation come to its welfare, to its future, a future envisioned by those who understood that the time has come, was long overdue to create a free and fair country. This impeachment was one of the last great battles with slavery, Charles Sumpter said, and that the National Government might actually and soon free itself from all vestiges of human oppression. That was the reason for impeachment. It was and is fundamental to the nation, which in a certain ironic sense helps explain why we learn so little about it. At that impeachment then and the reasons for it seemed good enough to me. Thank you. [applause] theres time for questions. Time for two questions at this time, so please approached the mic. Thank you. Okay, the obvious question, please comment on our present situation. Is this should there be a conviction . There has to be an impeachment first. We are assuming the house will do that. Mr. Atkinson, i first heard about you from my twin sons who decided after the towers were struck on 9 11 that you want to go to west point at annapolis and serve the country, and they read many of your books to prepare for that experience. They are now out of service and in grad school, so thank you for that. Thank you. Their mom has been reading some of your books and i been enjoying the. You are not going to west point, are you . [laughing] i enjoyed this book very much and it left me with two conclusions which id like you to speak to. My first conclusion from it was that people, countries go to war still mostly for economic reasons as opposed to philosophical or political reasons. And the other one, what are the reasons why George Washington had so much trouble particularly in the new york area and those battles because we didnt have an 83 couldnt move troops quickly and the royal navy was amazing and it wasnt only tell the french came in and blockaded and grade the siege of yorktown that we actually able to win that war, and we almost didnt win that war. And by the way, my nephews who were in middle school are so impressed about my knowledge about this. They think im you. They think im brilliant. [laughing] thank you. The second question first. Of course, we had no navy. We tried to build a small cot nettle navy. We had some frigates under construction, most of them never got into the fight. The royal navy was not only the greatest navy of the 18th century, it was the greatest navy ever until that point. So it really constrained what the americans could do in terms of fighting a campaign that was not landbased. That would plague washington and the congress and everybody else involved in the strategy throughout the war, and as you say not until the french come into it with their big fleet do we succeed. Its because of the french, because of the allies that we had. Britain certainly had no allies. She had alienated all of the other european powers have something worth remembering, that the only thing proverbially worse than fighting with allies is fighting without them. Next time we give a thumb in the eye to our closest friends, whether its the canadians or the british or the kurds or whatever, there are lessons to be learned from this. The first point that you made [applause] countries, peoples go to war for all different kinds of reasons. Economic is always the basis for it. They go to war because their feelings are hurt. They go to war because of minor incidents that dont seem like a legitimate cause of war. Ive spent my entire working life studying war, writing about war, going to war. And one of the few universal truths that ive learned about it is that it never goes the way you think its going to go. It never goes to what you think its going to go, ever. And thats worth remembering, to come next time we decide we will have adventures somewhere around the world. May i say one thing . The civil war, philosophical reason. Thank you so much. Lets give our authors a round of applause. [applause] Rick Atkinson and Brenda Wineapple, thank you so much joining us this afternoon. Thank you. [inaudible conversations] you are watching tv at cspan2 with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. Booktv, television for serious readers. All right. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for