Have to start with this new book entitle he the empower evidence university. What exactly is the empowered university . Guest thanks delight he to be here with you. The notification is this, that our universities should be empowered to look in the mirror and be honest with self, and wite as a way of talking about leadership and talking about our society that institutions that are healthy and that are secure should be willing to recognize whatever is going well, to acknowledge that, of course, but also to be willing to say, but we have a way to go, and so its empowered to be honest with self, and the subtitle which is shared leadership, culture change and academic success start width the notion its not but the one person, not just the University President. Its about all of us working together with the vision offed of indicating students and thats the notion of empowerment. Host i found the subtitle interesting, too because if you even look at the cover of the book you dont have one listessed a higher or greater priority you them almost lid out concentric circles. Guest you said that well. Host they all rely on each other. Guest exactly right. Host why is that. Guest if have to tell you, get goose bumps and math. Theyre connected and thats the point. That when we think about culture change, academic success, when we think but leadership, those are not separate topics. Theyre ways in which we work collectively through those, through the intersection, to think about how i as a leader, whether im a College President , provost or faculty member. Work effectively in a culture to educate students and it is the notion of building synergy in the since of empowering the university. What is really interesting, your life story and your trajectory you tell an important story where the empowered university is never an overnight thing. The idea of building culture, the idea of academic success of, the idea of shared leadership, those can just be catch words. Those are things thats have to be infused and nurtured and you have to give time. You plant a seed and then give time to grow. And if think the experience you had at umbc is a great exam of that. As person is going through their own journey, how do the think about that in terms of patience and timeline which for a lot of leaders is not an easy thing. Guest sure. You start with the idea our campus, umbc, university of maryland Baltimore County is young. We were founded in the 60s and ive been fortunate to be there as president for over 25 years and what i learn is that the success that we have had and its been considerable has come as a result of the work of a lot of people taking the time to analyze to assess a problem, the challenges, to get to know our students and understand how the culture needed to change and then work in a very organized approach to making a difference and that means what . It means that we understand that in american Higher Education, half the students unfortunately who go to colleges dont graduate. So how can we increase substantially Graduation Rates. It also means that we need to think about what dot is anyone be aned indicated person and understand that it takes more than simply sending students to classes. Were trying to touch the hearts and the minds of people. It means that we have kind of selffulfilling prophecy which says when students come to our institution we want to make sure they succeed. Most people who go to college, are we dean or president said, look at the student to your left, the student to your right, one of you will not graduate. Thats terrible thing to say to young people or people who are not so young who come back. What we say is look to your left can look to your right, our goal is to make sure all three of you grad wait and you dont were at fat. So its a matter of having the patience as an institution but as you say as an individual to know you dont make substantive progress overnight. When you talk about improving Graduation Rates or discuss what it meaned to educated or help egg people understand how to work with people different from themselves it takes time to shape a culture make for success. Host and so for leaders goingly to the process, how do you know when youre on that right path of shaping the culture . Sometimes youve need those benchmarks to let you know, youre keep going, in the right direction, or change directions. Guest i use the quote from eric wiener book the geography of. Bliss. Culture is the sea we swim in. You dont appreciate it until you get out and look back at it. So i would suggest, the book suggests all are saying we have to get out of the culture, step out of it and look back at what is going on, and when thinking about success, and how successful we are, two approaches we have worked on for years, analytics, use of data, in looking at trends and disaggregating the data and looking at women and people of color and others, number one, and number two, and looking at the majors of students and their economic browns, but number two, focus groups. Have learned over these years, my colleagues and i agree, that the best way to understand what is going onon looking at data, which can seem a little cold, is getting to listen to the voices of people, of the student, of our colleague, what it working or not working to understand what is quite frankly sometimes very challenging, to understand what excited. The it its in that listening process that we learn more about who we are and what the challenges are. Host i think one of the fascinating things i think has happened at the university of maryland Baltimore County under your leadership is how you have reshaped what people see when they look at umbc. A university that prior to you frankly felt like a sleepy Commuter School, and now were talking about a community that is leading the nation in many ways, in how its training and teaching scientists and mathematicians and engineers and scientists but students of color who are scientists and mathematicians, engineers, et cetera. So, talk to us from how that transitioned to going from the sleepy Commuter School to being as many people know, blissfully and joyfully nick named the nerd factory, the house of grit. Guest its true that people talk about our first 25 years as years when we were not wellknown, and in many ways we were still commuting, we had not become residential as we are now but in the first years i want to make this opinion faculty were working hard to build a Solid Foundation to make sure the academic enterprise was sound and it was in that setting when i first came i realized we have some good stuff here etch me colleagues and i said we have set some high bars and we need now to see how we build on that and build the visibility. So were now a campus with students from over 100 countries. Youre there in new york. Whenow walk down the corridor on our campus you see students from all the world. Feels like the plaza of the nations at the u. N. We lead the country in predominant live white institutions and black but more important than that, quite frankly, is that we are educating students of all races across disciplines. The media people love the science and engineering and those areas are important but aim really excited our classes in greek and latin are full at 8 00 in the morning, we have students in the arts, that beckett is our muse, we get to the mesh College Theater festival and so many students studying languages and culture. Im studying french now. Students on campus who speak french to me. Stem is important and arts, humanities and social sciences are important and i brick it up because of something with say in the book. With as a society have to appreciate the fact its not one area of disciplines and another versus another. Its not stem versus nonstem. Its how do we integrate these disciplines, teach our future scientists to appreciate the value of ethics but make sure our humanists look at digital humanity and using technology. So part of looking in mirror at the university and looking at the anywhere roar at society is to say, how do we teach our students that they can be proficient in a number of areas, they can learn and love languages and culture even as they study math or vice versa. Host its right now also feel like this book is comping at such a powerful time because we have never seen the university as a system under such attack. The virtue of Higher Education, why people need that. Can we do more training and so on. Jobs of the future. How when you think about the empowered university, what is your response to that critique or that criticism and what is the role of the empowered university to counter that type of rhetoric . Guest i think when an institution us powered and were feel that sense empowerment on or campus we look at the big picture. College is not for everybody. A lot of students dont want to be in a traditional liberal arts setting and have the right to have other post secondary opportunities. But number two, that we need to appreciate the value of Community Colleges. They are educating almost half of ustudents in america and as a university we need to be connecting with k through 12, with Community Colleges and understanding what is happening in the post secondary world and we talk about being. He power evidence to appreciate the genius of the and versus the tyranny of the or and thats a jim collins phrase it and means its not one thing or the other not Research Universities liberal art colleges. American Higher Education and is rich and diverse with different types of institutions. When people ask me if Higher Education matters, my First Response is always, absolutely. in fact what i say is, if you show me a family that has seen some success in college, ate least somebody has gone through and got an college degree, and gone ton get a job, we will see a family where they continue to want others to go i dont see families that have had success in college and universities saying no, we dont need this anymore. The challenge we fails that most people dont realize is that only 30 of americans families have experienced College Graduation and if you have not experienced it, you dont appreciate what it can do for your family to move into the middle class, and so two things we need to say that the book talks about, empowered to say to our nation, and beyond, Higher Education matters, absolutely. Were creating citizens. Were teaching people how to think critically. Were teaching them the importance of Civic Engagement, things we do at umbc that other institution does, but at the same time we should be empowered to look internally at selfin mirror and say we can be much better. Host when you think but theres more that we can do, i cant help but think about your own personal story and youre own personal journey. A journey that brought you from alabama to maryland and now leading one of the most prestigious and forward looking universities in the world. Can you tell us a bit but your journey and the role that education played in the journey. I appreciate that. I am a participant in the childrens march in birmingham and to be the child of educators. And so all of my life ive loved reading and math and thats what i want for every child to appreciate the meaning of words and to understand their connections across these disciplines and i am very fortunate to be at a university that allows me to get to know people from all over the world. Could never imagine as a black kid growing up in bermle ham in the 50s and 60s i would be at a university that had people from every continent because what i am able to see on our campus at umbc, that is so remarkably inspiring, is people from countries that are so different in many ways and yet my students come and they appreciate what they have in common. They appreciate cultural differences, but the also appreciate that here in our country we have brought in people from all over the world who come to learn, who come to talk about ideas, and to prepare to be leaders, and so i think of my own journey was one where i have the chance to be around dr. King and the children and go to jail and have that experience as a little child care, child leader in that Civil Rights Movement who was inspired to understand that through community, and through values, we as a university can prepare people to lead in Civic Engagement, in stem work in the arts and other areas. My journey actually the year i had the honor to march with dr. King and the other children is the same year my university at umbc was founded in 1963 by the maryland legislature. So were together and ive been there at the university over 30 years. I would also say for public Higher Education and private Higher Education, as we tell our stories the question has to be who are the people giving us support, whether its our donors, alumni, but empowered means looking at context. So for every public institution, we are fortunate in maryland and i say this around the country to have a governor and a legislate legislature who come from different parties, Political Parties and yet they work well together. The way american democracy is meant to work. And so our political leaders elected officials, in the governor and the advisories work very close to ensure we are building the quality of education and Higher Education and its been very encouraging to those in the field cho appreciate that in the state of maryland, the understanding is very clear that the future of our state, the future of our citizens, of the economy, of our families, will be closely connected to the quality of education and Higher Education. You talk about how if you look at umbc student body and the student body of so many different places, not just people from baltimore or maryland or the united states. This is a Global Community. Yes. Host what was your first exposure to the Global Community and how did it change you . Guest i had the privilege of studying in egypt. My girlfriend at the time, now wife, and i studied in egypt as Exchange Students from Hampton University in virginia, at the American University in cairo, and there were students from all the world there and it was the first time i was in an environment where people first didnt speak english except for this at the university, often did not speak english and where i began to learn some thing about another culture, another religion, about the arabic language and to see how people viewed us as americans and as africanamericans, and it was a broadening experience in many way and it led me to appreciate what umbc does today as we work to encourage more students to have experiences abroad as we have more and more students who come to us as we have faculty from all over the world, and the most important thing i tell americans all the time is, for us to first appreciate the beauty of the american democracy but secondly to appreciate the responsibility we have in this country and this most privileged of countries to understand human kind and to reach out too other people with a sense of welcoming, to say that we are all a part of this human race. Host how much of your education was that . When i think about your leadership and impact on me and others, its an allencompassing love, its a love of accepting people where they are, and bringing them all along in this conversation. So theres a formalized education and theres something that you really touch on, which i the informal education. Guest yes. Host of the exposure. Talk about that. Guest sure. My experiences were shaped by being in egypt, by beinged a my beloved hampton in virginia and then the grad alma mater the university of illinois at urbanachampaign and when i began to understand the world was predominantly white, frankly, id been in my world in birmingham and at my college, while we had professors from other races the fact it my world had been primarily africanamerican and i began to see the differences and the challenges and the strengths of being in that integrated society at urbanachampaign, however all those experienced shaped me and prepared me for and working at other institutions for the umbc experience. Umbc is very special never state of maryland because its the only university founded at such a time that people of awful race of all races could go there black and white. So from the beginning we were an institution with people from different races. Ive gone robbed the country and what we worked to improve on at umbc, we have this is a colorful point but ill make it. We have desegregated now and we have students of all races and types institutions but with hat no entrily integrated and at this point in i life i have to tell the truth. When you go to most places you seem people with people like themselves there are times when its great. For people to know people from their own cull dispore brown. We should appreciate self. The question we have to ask as we talk the empowered university and society, are we teaching our young people how to interact substantively with people different from themselves. And this is one of the strengths of umbc. We work really hard, both in the classroom and beyond the classroom, to do one thing. We say this to student from the beginning. Get beyond your comfort zone. Dont want to know people from your own state, from your own race, from your own country. You wasnt to in the people from all kinds of backgrounds as human beings, because the world is so diverse, and we dont talk enough about how we should go about coming to appreciate other people, caring but other people who are very different from ourselves. This is part of our success at umbc and yet also we say, success is never final. We can always be better. So empowered university, empowered to be better than we are. Host i know we saw that perfectly on display and i say this as a nate tv baltimorean and still a current resident of baltimore saw on that display five years ago after the uprise he around the death of freddie gray and the leadership role that you personally played, the leadership role that umbc played, the fact you really called on our society to do exactly what you just said, to understand the interconnectedness of all of our joy and pain. Can you talk about that moment and why it was so important for you to use your voice and he voice of umbc in such an empowering way. Guest ill never forget coming would took campus one day during that period when we were all so worried about the children of baltimore, about citizens the, and there was a large sign up over one of the buildings, and it said, we are baltimore, too. And i students put this up and it was because you see our campus is in the suburbs. Its adjacent to airport, 600acres and we were not physically connected to what was going on . City but we were spiritually and emotionally, psychologically connected because it is our city. From the roof of my building you can see downtown baltimore and i students who have been involved in Civic Engagement and faculty and staff had been working, were there connecting and working to be supportive. People dont realize that baltimore is the site this region, the site of some of the mosted of indicated people in the world, some fact when looking an at africanamerican population were thesecond bested of indicated community in the country according to a record from the Brookings Institution and you have people in the country who are which helpinged and need support. 30 of americans have the experience of going to college, graduating from college and so the point im making is that the notion of an empowered university should be empowered not only to look inward at the campus, but the big question is so what are we doing to help the children of our regions . Doing to help people who are poor . What are we doing deal with the income inequality challenge, the academic disparate where we see, the health did sparey. So a part disparity, so a part of what we did is what other institutions have done and that its to get into the city, the environment, to get involved in the tutoring and the working on policies that can make a difference, and as much more work to be done, but what i can tell you that our University Said was we are proud to be a part of baltimore and that we stand by. Host what was the reaction to the Student Issue i say because you have students who are from west baltimore and you have students from western from western china. You have students from all of the globe. What did you see amongst the students when everything that was happening very much in whether theyre adopted backyard or own backyard no people were trying to understand the issue and we were having faculty and staff were having town Hall Meetings and infusing work into the curriculum that looks at issues of poverty and race and discrimination and most important, what it means to try to reshape the thinking about people who have not had voice. And so large numbers of of courses, particular he humanities and social sciences and the arts, have focused on those areas. We are part of the National Movement of the imagining america and that is what faculty are working with students to look at challenges we face in our see site in our stiffs and its not one city or couple of cities. These are problems around the country. Of disparitiy and part of our solution has been to infuse these challenges into the work that students are doing in the classroom and in community engagement, so that as they become leader, whether theyre a lawyer or teach are or scientist, they have a better appreciation of the devastating impact of poverty, of the strength that children bring to the classroom, and most important i, of the possibility of changing the way we do business. Rethinking the narrative so that we stop blaming those people who are less fortunate and at the same time teach young people how to taked a much responsibility as they can, even as we work to change policies that can be so discriminating. Host as you know, and just for full disclosure, to everyone watching and listening, dr. Hrabowski is one of the first people i went to as gates yaps when my role of the ceo as robin hood i contacted and im eternally grateful. But robinhood an organization is one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in country, and we think about the role that poverty plays inside of our society. Its traumatic effects and impacts on everything. That we see. One of the things that you have always focused on is on the concept of brain development, and how exactly are we exercising this muscle, how are we creating platforms that every child, every young person, every person, period, has a chance to exercise that muscle in liberating ways. And we think about this role that these disparities play in our large society. There are some people who say that, understand those discrepancies, thats not my issue. Thats not my thing. And for you, who is taken such a lead on educating not just our current but future leaders how do we help people to understand, how are we training or scholars to understand to the role that each and every one of them. Have to play in addressing these societal skimps, does schisms regard left side of what field of provings they choose to take. Guest sure. I go to economics for a moment just to say, up need to do is look at the income inequality challenge in our society and the large, the millions of americans of all racings that are in races in the bottom group and howe that group proceeds to all the time as he we wealth at the top, and the challenge is a structural challenge as we think about how we help our children with education, which is a piece of it, but there are other issues that our Society Needs to appreciate and that is the advantages that those who are entitled that we have, whether its housing or loans or its about ways of building our families, so understanding the devastating impact of things like poverty and race and gender discrimination, can help us understand how solving those problems with lift us all up. For my campus, what is amazing, our colleagues for a long time, for years and year, have nonwe needed to be talking with, working with, focused on people in our inner city areas and in other places where we have challenges throughout the state of maryland, and what that mean is is looking at way of helping christian to christian to children to learn, and public policy, Grad School Programs and research and grants looking at issues involving finance and health care and there is this need for a broader understanding by the public of all of the ways in which poverty, for example, has this negative impact including hwa nih says bit the learning process, the issue of stress and its relationship to learning. And as we work on our programs from first generation kids only coulding college to children who have been firsttime offenders, we see tseng trough the children and their ability to think and how we can hone the skills and work with schools in baltimore, from lakeland elementary to other schools and are seeing scores going in reading and math. The developed programs designed to help leaders. The sherman scholars, people with major who are working with middle schools and those people working the schools to help those children. America needs to look at performance of children and understand if theyre not doing well, its more complicated matter than their simply not studying and work. Its much horrific indicated than that. We have to give teachers more sport for working on that. We have to find ways of having outcome and yet outcome and accountability that will be related to most important live related to the support we give to teachers and children in families and its that support that can make a big difference. Host yes. And speaking of support, its its interesting also knowing what support do we need, what support do we ask for. And theres a great story in your book, andful its on page 71, the chapter about grit and greatness. But youre talking about how at the time you were the interim president , this is 1992. And governor williams schaffer, the form mayor of baltimore, became the governor for the state of maryland, but you met with him and had a chance to articulate your vision and what you wanted to do and what cow thought could happen, and theres a point here where he asks you and says, after hearing you speak, he says freeman, what can i do to support your candidacy to become president . Im going to call the regents and ask them to make you the president. And your response was fascinating because at that point i think everybody, natural responsible would have been that sounds great, thank you so much, mr. Governor and your response was, that please do not contact the board of regents. And the thing that you asked him for was not for a call, not for a recommendation, you asked him for trees. Guest yes. Host you asked him for trees. Host can you talk about that. If you know anything but politics our governors are always very powerful but i wanted to become president if the regents wanted know be president. Didnt want anyone saying the governor made them do it. We all loved the governor, do it now kind of person. We have a great governor now. Doing the same thing. This what i would say. You knew he didnt have money but wanted to show support. We were a young campus and we were out on the roof and i looked around and i knew i need we needed more green space there and i knew something he had some power over and i said give us trees. And it was and he rooked at me and smiled and said i can do that. With the department of natural resources, and they did. This nice story is before he died i picked him up from the Senior Citizens place up at Charleston Retirement Community and drove him around and i said, it was 20 some years had gone by and hes little trees had become these beautiful trees and i said, governor, youve did this for us. And he got tears. It was so special. Just a special moment. Host its also very symbolic because you had these saplings and seeds and small trees that grew into these mammoth things and trees that will outlast us all. Guest yes. Host those trees on that campus will be here and look after generations and providing shade and support. And its also very enblem matic how we think but Higher Education the point of Higher Education. Guest and the big problem in our sow site. Climate change is very real and we talk can environmental science, engineering, policy, we have thousands of students in to the area and large numbers of faculty working on Environmental Issues whether its about water and the Chesapeake Bay to environmental technology. So all of that fits well when thinking about the empowered university to get involved with the problems of society, the Climate Change issues. Environment would be those. The one problem i would mention that it think we in american Higher Education need to look more carefully at would be the relationship not only between k through 12 and university but the fact that such a large percentage of our students who guinn colleges never graduate. And while we say its about half. The fact is that that distribution is fair live bimodal the wealthiest places you see 8090 people who graduate but largest personal of the publics are going to be below 40 . And i am always saying, this should not be acceptable to any of us. In he 25 years ago because we were we had most of the freshman and sophomores on campus but have gone from under 40 to 70 in and include those who transfer evidence to other majors, we have worked very hard to make sure that student whose come towels actually do succeed. The other part of that is theyre certain strategies we need at thing into. One is course redesign. People will hear more and more about people who are redesigning courses that we understand the lecture method is only one way of deliver. You look at the discovery center, students working in gropes. Of technology, realtime kind of assessment going on, use of the Biotech Companies on campus and making the education as exciting as possible. I often ask people the question about k through to 2 and university. How many of you know of student whose bored in school . Just bored. So being able to help students appreciate the excitement of learning, getting them more actively engaged rather than opening their heads and pouring in the knowledge. Teaching them how to use technology can make a big difference, and then finally, for us, the number one word you hear at umbc is grit. Grit. We have been using that word over 20 years. Our which he was peek bay retiefer, his name is truth grit and we say that umbc ifs the house of grit and i will tell you the fact that 5060 of students have a parent from another country really speaks volumed about what people from other countries often bring to this country look at the wonderful people who came to new york and. The nobel prize whats the quality . The hunger for knowledge and were arguing, suggesting putt ought society we must ask the hard question, are we hungry for knowledge and teaching constitute topped he hungry and excite but curiosity and ask goods we. Its about looking in the mirror at ourselves not just as a university but as a society. Host how do we teach that hunger . How do we instill that hunger . Guest it is such a great question. I think from early years we know that when we go my colleague and i go and work in the inner city schools kids in second grade and third grade, you ask them a question, me, me, me, everybody is so excited. I love that. I think president s and other at university shoots be of concern but prekles we are ph. D programs so you see that curiosity in a child at an early years, and the question is oh, do we keep that from being somehow diminished and make sure we keep pulling the curiosity and it couldment and i think its about giving them incentives to keep asking the questions, allowing them to make mistakes, helping them to understand that sometimes we learn more when we get knocked down than we keep moving ahead, and most important, how to keep experimenting and trying disapproachs to getting the work to be comprehensible and understand. I it itself go to board and put up a problem in differential equation and i solve it and then everybody says, wow, he knows a lot and then if give a test on the problem and everybody faithfuls the test, have i taught it . No, i have not. Yet we have this notion too often that once we presented it, thats our responsibility. As a society, we do that. I would argue that to keep kids excited, we have to keep thinking what is our expectations. What were expecting. The ted talk i give on pillars of success in science starts with High Expectations and not just of the students. Its High Expectations of all of us. What i love about umbc my colleagues working in imaging in digital art, social sciences to find ways of pulling students into the work and to having them as curious as possible and taking responsibility for taking it as far as they can and using us as colleagues in that process. Host and when you say the idea of using them as colleagues, it goes back to the idea of a collaboration, of partnership inside the work. Which often times for people is not easy and its not simple. Thats also something that has to be taught, how to collaborate. Guest we learn to do by doing and learn more from action thats right than peopling telling us what to do. Also about building communication among students. Building Community Among students and faculty and when you say, it takes researchers to build researchers. It takes artists to produce artisted. Any of out know were better when we have seen our others do it so the collaboration in labs, to collaboration in a theatrical progression or working in imaging, the work i see people doing in gendered women residents studying, talking about or discussing challenge. All the ways in which we can be much better and one thing with say in the book has to do with all the controversial involving title ix because we talk about something that happened that was excite. The exciting thing is when we won the basketball game against uva and were very a very nerdy campus wow the resource of that wonderful institution and its went well. But he took the that time look to say who are we, we take great pride in just having won a nationalship in cyber security. We like that. We had student protests as all campuses will it and was a time to say to students, were sorry we havent been more effective. We were working to do the right thing. Didnt do all of what we needed to. Do well be better, and the way you get better, blitz a student protest or challenges with any group, its to listen care in to what they say and thats what have been dueling, call i retriever courage and very proud we have been listen to students and experts and reshaping the way we do business, changing the structure, and most important, giving the resources and keeping a level of humility. Seems to me that part of being empower evidence as a university or as a leader is remaining humble and saying, i have so much more to learn. It seems to me at every level of our society, we need leadership that speaks to the question of humility, confidence, yes, but humility and a willingness to listen to different vehicleses. And to listen to people different from ourselves. Im very proud of our students and colleagues when we have sessions that will bring people from different Political Parties, difference points of view, and we come together to hear those different points of view with an understanding that quite frankly we can even agree to disagree with civility. We must teach our students and our society that very important message. Host when we talk about the role of the empowered university, you mention something i think is really important. You talk about producing an educated citizenry. And it seems this is not how bow to get more people mas and ph. Ds and bachelor degrees and its Something Big are than that. Youve thats our responsibility and leaves us we critical questions. What does mean to be educated and how is that changing . Guest yes. Host what does mind to be educate snead it is a question we should be constantly asking. The head of fie beta kappa suggested the role of the liberal education is to production opportunities who learn how to present arguments and to base their arguments on evidence. The importance of evidence. Number two to be willing to listen to other points of view. Not simply to win the argument but to listen to other points of view and to look carefully at the Evidence Base to support another point of view, and then most important, to learn how to find common ground, how to figure out what itself is we all can agree that is for the public good, the common can and for us at umbc we are through or work in the humanities, to the sciences, looking at ways of helping students to learn to ask the hard questions to read critically, but to appreciate the value of evidence in a society that is bombarding us with information and different points of view with things being confused what is truth and what is not. Ed of indicated people should have the educated people should have the skills to the question that lead to the evidence that can therefore determine what is truth. And at the essence. The heard of this, empowered to seek the truth. Host and when a person is on that path to seek the truth, i think one of the things you touch on is that the truth has a ten den si so show tendency to show itself and hedonists placeouts might not expect in people. That you might not expect. How do both institutions and individuals go about finding their both individual and collective truths . Guest i think we can become more successful at seeking and expressing the truth. Making sure that we are first understanding the biases we bring to any work, all of us bring certain points of view, and sometime we may assume that point of view is the right point of view. It may be a point of view but not always the case that the only right point of view. So it think its important for all to us be willing to open our minds and to hear that other perspective. Ive learn so much from people from very different perspectives on my campus because my campus is microcosm of america and the world and people bring different religious breathes, political, philosophical points 0 view and is so important to understand the perspective and to be able to ask questions in a way that doesnt simply make People Defensive but, rather, helps the next person to be more introspective and think but what theyre saying. I would argue that we too often have been teaching people to win the argument at opposed to engaging in the argument in the debate in such a way that we can figure out what really is the right to as we think about what is best for everybody. Even as we understand that theres some things that are absolutely the truth. That we should tell the truth. Make sure that we have honor in the work we do. Host have honor in the work we do. Guest yes. An oldfashioned idea but i really believe withed of indicators can show educators can show students with our behavior and working with. The, well know people can make mistake, the honorable thing to do is make sure we are with sincerity wean work working to fine the facts and use the facts in making decisions what to do. Empowered to, again, look at self very carefully and also empowered to be honest about what is wonderful about our country, our university, and ways in which we can be even better. Host you talk about that quite a bit in the book, which i think is so important. And found on page 184, where you were talking about the fact that challenge still remain, that this is not always go to be some where you cross a finish line and then take a pause because new challenges are there and you highlight few. Where you say even with the swirl of course redesign we have faculty who do not see the need no new purchased and departments in which few or no faculty members have redine their course in meaningful way. Occasionally new hires come in to teach a redesigned course and without understanding the in approached that have been immigranted reextort a more traditional approach to pedagogy. This idea that change is always there, change is not always welcomed. And how exactly do we continue to push, north that certain things will work and certain things wont ask thats perfectly fine, but thats only the complicated thing for an organization to be able to take on. My colleagues were very helpful to the coauthors and me in rite writing the book because we decided we wanted to hear what people thought about why were being being successful, and i say this to fellow College President s, we College President s know a lot aboutve campuses campuses and lot we dont know and i thought i understood why we have been else and while i may have known some i learn so mum from focus groups but ways in which people had to go around obstacles in order to get it done. Wasnt that we were necessarily empowering them to do what needed to be done. Sometimes because of personalities, because of power struggles they halved to move around obstacles to get the work done it and was humbling experience. When they would say were doing great job in oindicating poo he across diminimums dismiss minimums but the bottom line third of the students who are interested in the majors are not having the success. We are still not where we need to be, and some departments are more inclined to be involved in innovative approaches, others are more traditional and thats true at any university, and as we listen, even to people who said, yeah, and as we bring in more people, people are not accustomed to seeing large numbers of students succeed in science with all the first year of science and engineering in america, weedout courses when ask american courses the question how many who stead in science and chains their major the whole room with rates the hand and the First Response we have is we were not good science the fact is that even based on the work we have done with the National Academy of sciences, the fact is that the higher the test scores sometimes of students, whether its about the ap exams, s. A. T. S, standardized tetes, the most socially prestigeos the university the greater chance the student my leave science and its not because the students not working harold. Structural issues, issues involving our attitude and we are constant live doing is changing the city culture to have student end seed whether its in science or schooling or the arts and when we celebrate the success of seeing so many students doing well and going on to best institutions in the country and beyond, to get ph. Ds and mdph. Ds, thats great but what but the average student, the stuns in bottom third . Weed a universities tend to have great anecdote about our stop students it what empty the students who are not among the top . What else do we need to do . What what i mean to be truthful but the whole story. Host where do you see Higher Education going as our society continues to evolve . When you talk about the number of people who are starting Higher Education and have not completed this he amount of people Walking Around with credits and no degree. Watching coesites Higher Education continue costs of Higher Education to rise faster than others. That do you see a the future of Higher Education, more consolidation, more buildout . How do you see this going. Guest i am somebody with a very positive view of the future. I say that with great confidence. I often ask people the question, did your grandparent goes to college . Were your parents in college . Only 30 have gone to college it now know 50s and 60s i know a lot of about where we were at a society. Most people were pot born in the 50s so they dont understand just how challenging our society was then when people talk about the challenges we face today and we do face challenges. Get that. But its not the first time we have favessed challenges god. Back to the 60s, then 1960s or the 1860s and so the challenges and the divisions and all the problems but i say that as i think but the future, because i am convinced about using that same collins quote i usedve, generalus of the end versus the tyranny of the or. What die mean . We are going to see of course well continue to see a lot of facetoface interaction because a lot of of people need that for a number of reasons. Especially in certain disciplines, certain ages, certain backgrounds, but we also seeing the increasingly Important Role of technology and we will see both online programs and the hybrid approach, many of our classes at umbc have course redesign and you have some part lecture, some part working in groups and also have some things online, the use of technology in many ways and going to see more of all those things happening but i also see well be talked pot postsecondary opportunities more, not just the fouryear degree but the twoyear programs, the Certificate Programs, the credentialing, my campus, umbc and the rest of the the University System of maryland part the Greater Washington partnership which involves virginia, washington, dc, and maryland, public and private, from hopkins, Virginia Tech and we are working with companies to look at the skills that people need and one of the big challenges that you may not know is that theres so Many Technology jobs not getting filled right now. Its very exciting to see the work were doing and others with that Greater Washington partnership to have program. S, Certificate Programs that will allow many more humanity majors in the social sciences to get into the technology fields. Theyve got that broad education, there are certain courses they can took, experiences whether in statistics or programming, that allows hem to get jobs. The only way to deal with the technology truck. Not producing enough Computer Science majors and people of color and women in. In the 80s we had 36 of the Computer Science majors who were win. Today were down to 20 . Its a major travesty that we have not as a society looked in the mirror and said something is wrong with this picture. Other countries are producing mump higher percentages of women. Our approach is to have aer in for women in i. T. And we edge couraging more women to get involved in Computer Science, computes are, and k through 12 he. The most Exciting Program know involving k through 12 is one for middle school girls involving yoga and coding. Its a fascinating program that teaches confidence and you learn to do the coding and getting that stamina that goes with yoga and able to become an ambassador for girls in technology and unbid the National Security agency and the other companies in area and we need to encourage much more another. That the point im making is that somehow the ability of our Higher Education enterprise to look in themer roar to be empowered and to be honest but the strength and to say but we have these problem, a shortage of people in technology, the need for more women or people of colonel, the fact that students from low income backgrounds dont havent the educational brown and need more support. All these are ways in which we can solve problems and make the point to our society that Higher Education matters. Host the thing i love is that its a whether its that program or the program these are partnerships between public sector, private sector, our institutions of Higher Education, philanthropy, everyone has an Important Role to play. Guest when when i look at our k through 12 programs, stem centers and the idea of connecting the earths and the sciences together and engineering and haves inastaire become engineers, having women and people of color going into the schools and showing them what its about, and theres the need for this intersection of thieves different groups the same way i talk but the shared leadership, we say shared leadership, academic success and culture change, talk about our society with the public and private sector working together, with government, universities, company, foundations, with the gelling of strengthening what we do in education. So we have only a few minutes left. Very quickly share a story and get your response. I was connected to another university and when their University President ship came up, they wondered and talked to you, and see if you had any interest in the presidency, and i said i know him very well, and they said do you mind talking with him . And so i went and im emed you and also you always do you immediately email me back and said of course, lets have lunch. And i started going entitle you smiled and said i think ill know where youre going. With the questioning, and because i was asking just to gauge an interest about your interest in this presidency and you said something i wont forget. You said to me, to be very honest the students who are there better chance than not whoever is sifting in that seat theyll be fine. The reason the, the thing that brought you to umbc and that keeps you there is not just the progress the university has made, its the fact that you no you being in that seat matters. It matters to the students who walk on the campus. Matters to students who are the alumni and student whose will apply to go to that campus. Non only do i say thank you for that and frank hill the sense of clarity youve gave me in how i think but my own life and career, im incredibly grateful for this book and the contribution you have made to us in terms of not just the empowered university but the roll of education and our society. Thank you for who you are and what you continue to do. I appreciate that. Very honored to be here. Just final point would be that the message of umbc, empowered to think who kid who come from middle class backgrounds, working class, can be theave best and become rhodes scholar. Young man now knackty position in the classics as columbia. The idea that you can have excellence and all types of institutions and that you can have awe authenticity. My colleagues care but student little its an exciting place. Come and visit again soon, please. I will. Do thank you. Thank you. This program. Is available at a podcast, of after words program. Sening be viewed on our website at booktv. Org. The house will be in order. For 40 years, cspan2 has been provide. We will start the thing and then we will jump right in. No interest in giving a speech before we start