Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Franklin Roosevelt president ial library and museum. I would like to welcome you to todays program. As you know, today is pearl harbor day. And i would like to take just a moment to recognize those who have served. If theres any veterans or active duty servicemembers, please rise so we can acknowledge your service. Thank you very much. [applause] today is a day that marked the transition of america from an isolationist nation to a global superpower, and there are few days in World History like december 7th because of what it meant for the world we live in today, really, in so many ways. Were very fortunate to be able to honor today with a wonderful program, a new book thats just come out. How many of you are members here . If youre a member, raise your hand. Wow, look at that. Thats great. Your support makes these programs possible. It is because of members and our trustees like you that we can do these programs. Cliff lobby, our Program Manager put on 58 programs here at the library which is very impressive. [applause] because of your support, we can have these programs for free. It is a way for us to give back to the community because we feel so strongly that fdr loved this area. He wanted to be used in this way. We are honoring his wishes. Anyway, so our speaker today is a journalist and he taught at harvard and he was involved with georgetown, but hes also written a number of very interesting books. Hes the author of perfect which is a book about don larsons world series, anybody remember that, Perfect Pitch world series. Raise your hand. Rewrote a book called promise and performance about john f. Kennedy he wrote a book called promise and performance about john f. Kennedy. He then wrote a novel about john f. Kennedy, about his assassination. He wrote a fiction and nonfiction book, betting they are a good combination. He wrote a book called empire, about the man who sently built essentially built cbs and his rise to power parallels fdrs period radio into television and probably one of the most fascinating and certainly most powerful media moguls in america. Another book on a Supreme Court justice. He has a deep grounding in 20th century American History which allows him to give a fresh perspective to the book hes going to talk about today, terror, tension, and the american ambassadors struggle to avoid pearl harbor. This is a very complicated periods and a very complicated story about how president roosevelt was trying to navigate this transition from america being an isolationist neutral country when he wanted to get into this war, but he didnt really want to get into the war with japan because he wanted to get into the war with germany, but of course american policy was forcing a decision one way or another. You are going to hear a fantastic story. The book is there will be a book signing afterwards. Please welcome lou paper. [applause] thank you all for coming. When paul said he was going to introduce me, i had only one request, i said i dont care if its true or not, just make me look good. [laughter] and think i he did a great job. And i think he did a great job. I do want to thank paul and cliff for the invitation to be here. Its a great honor. Im very privileged and very flattered to have received the invitation. Being here has a special meaning for me. When i was a little boy, my father talked to me all the time about president roosevelt. And the reason my father talked to me about president roosevelt was because i had been stricken with polio as a little boy, and my father wanted me to know that poll owe polio would not prevent me from being a success in life. He had no better example of course than president roosevelt. I was very fortunate. My polio was not as severe as president roosevelts. And later when i got a little older, my father brought me here to the library and the museum. It was a very special trip. I was awe struck by the place. And i can only say i wish my father could be here with me today. I think he would really enjoy it. But enough about these personal matters. Pearl harbor, weve all seen that film of president roosevelt standing in the well of the United States house of representatives, on december 8th, 1941, saying that december 7th, 1941, is a date that will live in infamy because of japans surprise attack on the u. S. Naval base at pearl harbor. Theres no evidence that president roosevelt or his cabinet knew in advance specifically that japan would attack pearl harbor. But they should not have been surprised that japan would attack the United States. In november 1941, only a few weeks before pearl harbor, joseph grew sent two telegrams to secretary of state kordell hall, warning him that japan was prepared to launch a suicidal war against the United States and that Armed Conflict could come with dangerous and dramatic suddenness. So who was joseph grew . How did he know that . In november, 1941, joseph grew was 61 years old, tall, lean, bushy eyebrows, a full moustache. He had been an american diplomat, for almost 40 years. And he had been americas ambassador to japan should i be using this one . Can you hear me better now . Oh, okay. So i recognized i was using the wrong microphone. In any event, joseph grew had been an american diplomat, for almost 40 years. He had been americas ambassador to japan for almost ten years. There were four factors that led grew to send those two telegrams to secretary of state kordell hall in november 1941. The first factor was a the japanese economy. The United States had imposed economic sanctions on japan in an effort to curb japans military aggression in china and in Southeast Asia. Those economic sanctions had crippled the japanese economy. Rice was being rationed. There was no gasoline for cars. The few cars that traversed tokyo streets had to be fitted with charcoal engines. Imported coffee was also unavailable. It had been replaced by another brew, about which the New York Times correspondent said it was better not to ask too many questions. There was a second factor that led grew to send those telegrams to secretary of state kordell hall, in november 1941. That was the japanese mindset. Grew knew that a crippled economy would lead to a sense of desperation among the japanese. And a sense of desperation would lead to war. It was all part of that samurai doordie spirit that still prevailed in japan. Grew knew that for japanese leaders, annihilation through a suicidal war with the United States was better than the humiliation of succumbing to american pressure. Theres a story which illustrates that japanese mindset. In the fall of 1941, grew received word from the American Embassy in china about a japanese soldier who had been captured by chinese troops in the fighting there. The japanese soldier came from a well to do family. And he wanted his family back in japan to know that he was alive and well. Grew passed the word on to the japanese government, and he soon received a reply. The japanese government said that neither it nor this mans family were interested. As far as they were concerned, that japanese soldier was dead because, said the government, any japanese soldier who had allowed himself to be captured had dishonored his family and dishonored his government. There was a third factor that led grew to send those telegrams to kordell hall in november 1941. And that concerned the japanese leaders ability to control the japanese population. If i was writing a book about nazi germany, i would not have to tell you about the brutality of the government. Japan was also a very repressive society. Secret police were everywhere. Surveillance was pervasive. No dissent was allowed. An indiscrete word uttered to a friend, a neighbor, a family member, and a person could find themselves arrested, thrown in jail, and subjected to horrific torture. Grew understood the up shot of all this. If japanese leaders issued a command, to launch a suicidal war against the United States, the japanese people would obey that command, and they would fight to the death. Theres a fourth factor that led grew to send those telegrams to hall in november of 1941. And that revolved around discussions which japanese representatives were having in washington, d. C. , with secretary of state kordell hall, about a possible agreement between japan and the United States to resolve the differences between the two countries. Notwithstanding that samurai doordie spirit, japanese leaders recognized the risk of war with the United States. And so they supported an initiative in the spring of 1941, to have discussions with hall, in washington, to see if the two countries could reach an agreement. For his part, secretary of state kordell hall knew there was virtually no chance of japan and the United States reaching an agreeme agreement. Hall regarded japan as one of the Worst International desperados in the history of mankind. He subscribed the view that no promises of the japanese on paper would be worth anything. But hall could not tell that directly to the japanese representatives who came to washington, d. C. Why . Because in the spring of 1941, americas military capabilities were woefully inadequate. And so president roosevelt and the military chiefs, urged hall to drag those conversations out with the japanese as long as possible, to give the United States time to bolster its military capabilities and to defer or delay any conflict in the pacific for which the United States was not prepared. Thats what hall did, from the spring to the summer to the fall of 1941, he spent untold hours talking with japanese representatives about an agreement that he knew probably would never come to fruition. By the fall of 1941, grew reported to hall, from tokyo, that japanese leaders were very frustrated about the lack of progress and the discussions and that the japanese leaders were beginning to sense that the United States was not really interested in an agreement and that the United States was merely playing for time. But for japan, time was running out. In those months before pearl harbor, grew made many recommendations to president roosevelt and secretary of state kordell hall about things they could do that might avoid the war that grew saw coming. Very few of grews recommendations were acknowledged. None was accepted. Why . Because back in the United States, and especially in washington, people could not believe that japan would directly attack the United States. The United States was so much larger in terms of population and resources, people in washington and elsewhere thought it would be utterly stupid for japan to directly attack the United States. And so grew would later write that american policy in those months before pearl harbor, was completely inflexible and that his reporting to the government from tokyo was like throwing pebbles into a lake at night. When pearl harbor occurred, as you might imagine, joseph grew was very frustrated and very bitter because he felt that the Roosevelt Administration had squandered a chance to possibly avoid war. When pearl harbor did occur, grew and the other members of the American Embassy in tokyo were immediately arrested and taken as prisoners of war. They were all placed in the American Embassy in tokyo, for about six months, while japan and the United States worked out a Diplomatic Exchange agreement, so that american diplomats in japan could return to the United States and japanese diplomats in the United States could return to japan. During the six months that he was held as a prisoner of war, joseph grew wrote a 60page report that detailed his criticism of american policy in the months before pearl harbor. Grew planned to give that report to president roosevelt and secretary of state hall when he returned to the United States. But it never happened. When grew returned to the United States, in august, 1942, he showed the report to secretary of state kordell hall. Hall glanced at the report. Hall immediately saw that the report criticized decisions which hall had made in the months before pearl harbor. Hall immediately demanded that grew destroy that report. As a subordinate official in the state department, grew felt he had no choice but to agree to halls demand. And so he destroyed that report. I should add theres no evidence that president roosevelt knew about the report or its destruction. For his part, grew never publicly acknowledged the destruction of the report. Even when he was asked in a postwar congressional hearing, whether he had prepared any report to give to hall, upon his return to the United States. Thank you for that indulgence. So how did i come to write this book about joseph grew and pearl harbor . About six years ago, i was going to write a book about america in 1941. It was a pivotal year for the country. Franklin d. Roosevelt had been inaugurated for an unprecedented third term as president. The uaw had signed its first contract with a car manufacturer. The new york yankees joe dimaggio, 56 consecutive games, a record which still stands and of course japan attacked pearl harbor. In the course of my research, i came across the name of joseph grew and his effort to orchestrate an agreement between japan and the United States to avoid the war he saw coming. I was intrigued, and the more i researched, the more i realized that grews story had never been told. And so i switched gears to tell that story. In writing this book, i wanted to bring the characters alive for the reader. Take president roosevelt, hes an essential figure in this drama. When you see roosevelt, standing on the well, of the United States house of representatives, on december 8th, 1941, saying that december 7th, 1941, is a date that will live in infamy, he looks so strong. He sounds so vibrant. And yet as we discussed, heres a man who had been stricken by polio and couldnt walk. I was thinking about it when i was writing the book. You and i we get up in the morning, we go to the bathroom, we do our business, we come back, we get dressed, we go about our day. Roosevelt could not do all of that without assistance, and that assistance wasnt going to be provided by his wife eleanor. She had her own bedroom down the hall in the white house, and more than that she was almost always traveling. Instead roosevelt relied on a valet. Roosevelt had two valets during his 12 years in the white house. And i thought wouldnt it be great if i could find some commentary from those valets about what roosevelt was like in those private moments with his valet . I was able to find that commentary. I learned that in those private moments with his valet, roosevelt almost always displayed a sweet, amiable disposition. Roosevelts valet in december 1941, was arthur pityman, a big black man, a chief petty officer in the United States navy. Pityman was also a very goodlooking guy. Although pityman was married, roosevelt liked to tease pityman about being a ladys man. Every time roosevelt would tease him about being a ladys man, pityman would respond one does not refute the chief executive, mr. President. I wanted to provide that same intimacy in talking about joseph grew. To do that, i talked to many members of his family, his grandchildren, his cousins, his great grandchildren. They told me many stories that were very useful. One story stood out because it displayed grews diplomatic skills and his stature. It was january 1949. Grew was asked to provide some remarks at a dinner in honor of general george c. Marshall, who was retiring as secretary of state. General marshall had been chief of the army during world war ii. After the war, truman appointed him as secretary of state. Now, in january of 1949, general marshall was going to retire to his farm in virginia, with his wife. In the audience was general dwight d. Eisenhower and his wife. Im sure you all know that general eisenhower is the one who led the allied invasion of normandie. In his closing remarks, in honor of general marshall, grew said all he wants to do is retire to his farm in virginia with mrs. Eisenhower. As soon as he said that, people began to laugh. Grew immediately recognized his mistake and quickly and coolly said, my apologies to the general. At that point, general eisenhower blurted out which general . [laughter] i did not rely solely on discussions with members of grews family. I also had access to a lot of documents. No document was more important than grews diary. This guy was incredibly disciplined. Through his long diplomatic career, almost every evening during the week and on weekends, he would sit at his desk, his pipe clenched between his teeth, his smith corona typewriter in front of him, and he would write out what had happened, what had been said and what he had thought in the previous day. I had access to thousands of pages of grews diary. I knew almost everything he did, everything he said and everything he thought in those months before pearl harbor. I knew what time he got up in the morning. I knew that his favorite scotch whiskey was Johnny Walker red. And i knew too about his very deep feelings about his wife alice. In fact, in many respects, this book is a love story. When joseph grew married alice perry, in 1904, she was a tall, vivacious beautiful woman with long dark hair. Alice came from a prominent family in boston. But she had little formal education because the family was always travelling. But alice was very smart. And she had a lot of opinions, and alice wanted to share those opinions with her husband. And he was willing to listen. Grew told his daughters that he rarely sent out an Important Message or a communication or rarely did anything of any consequence without consulting alice. But alice was a Formidable Force in her own right. That was illustrated by a story told by grews private secretary. It concerned a social evening at the American Embassy in tokyo, shortly before pearl harbor. The grews invited over for dinner the British Ambassador to japan and his wife. The grews liked sir robert. The grews did not like his wife. They thought she was a nasty woman. In any event, at these social occasions at the American Embassy in tokyo, the grews would often show a movie after dinner. The problem was, that the projector they used to show the movie was often breaking down. On this particular occasion, as the grews and their guests were watching a movie, the projector again broke down. When it did, the ambassadors wife turned to alice and said isnt it unfortunate my dear that that machine of yours is always breaking down. Without skipping a beat, alice turned to her and said yes, but isnt it great that we have no important guests tonight . [laughter] i tried to provide that same intimacy in describing the other characters in this drama, both american and japanese. And if you read the book, you will see that the attack at pearl harbor was not merely a clash of governments. It was the product of the personalities, the perspectives, and the prejudices of people like you and me. And if you read this book, it will change the way you look at pearl harbor. So i want to thank you for coming, and if people have questions, if anybody has any questions, i would be happy to answer any questions anyone might have. Just keep it clean. I think theres a microphone [applause] i have a couple of questions. One of the things that the japanese are fairly well known for is their resourcefulness. Now, forgive me, but we all i think pretty much drove here today and were all aware of the price of gas. Back in those days, the japanese, one of the primary sources of their of fuel for their not only their navy but their army and their domestic use, pretty much came from the United States. It seems like the british, the germans with their raiders steaming around the Southeast Asia coast, they didnt have any problem getting fuel for their ships. The british didnt have any problem getting fuel for their ships. In 1937, the japanese attempted to get an Oil Consortium agreement, and nothing seemed to ever happen. Why couldnt the japanese buy fuel from the nei . In other words, neither lands, east indies and their series of islands which were flush with oil, still flush with oil today. Why did they have to come 5,000 miles across the pacific and 5,000 miles back . Thats a good question. I realize that doesnt pertain exactly to what you were talking about, but he had been there for ten years. I cant help but think that maybe somewhere along the lines, you know, maybe you guys ought to think about another fuel source rather than the u. S. Well, grew wasnt certainly going to help the japanese in that regard. Notwithstanding anything i said, grew, i dont want to create a misimpression here, grew was a patriot, and he saw his role as an ambassador as a representative of the United States. He saw it as his mission to promote peace because he had been in the Berlin Embassy in germany during world war i. He understood the consequence of war. He knew what war brought. And so he was desperate to try to avoid war, not to advance the cause of the japanese, but to protect america. And to go to your question, so grow would not have given the japanese any advice about that, but the japanese, you are correct, are very resourceful and they did pursue other alternatives to get oil, like the Dutch East Indies and other places, and they were stymied everywhere that they went, in part not entirely, but in part because the United States also recognized what you just said, and the United States worked with the Dutch East Indies and other countries to provide to prevent japan from running around the embargoes and the sanctions which the United States had imposed because if japan could be resourceful and get around it, then of course the sanctions would not be effective, and the United States government was very much aware of that. I just have one other question since you were able to see all of this diary that mr. Grew kept. Was there ever any mention of a person by the way, did he keep a diary like that not only when he was in japan but throughout his whole time . Yes. Was there any mention in that diary of a person by the name of tyler kent . Youre really testing me now. [laughter] i cant remember the name quite frankly. But, you know, you can go i should say for those of you who are interested in the book, you can go to my website, lewpaper. Com. If you go to my website, theres a fuller description of the book and you can see some reviews, and also you can see a video about the book. I know it doesnt sound like a blockbuster, but there is a video about the book on the website. But the reason i bring it up, for this gentleman, and for any of you, if you have questions after you leave here today and say gee, i wish i had asked him this or that, you can go to my website, and you can reach me through my website, and i promise you, if you send me a question, i will do my best to answer it promptly. Thank you. Youre welcome. Thank you. Before i lead into the question, they were more than the japanese desperados. Other countries were aware of what was happening in japan. This wasnt just a mere battle or fights going on. This was destruction of horrendous portions. You said that kordell hall had made certain mistakes as were repeated in his paper. Was there anything in the diary that shows what these mistakes were . Well, first of all, you are quite right, the japanese military, they engaged in they were brutal. And they engaged in quite a number of atrocities, where thousands of chinese civilians were raped, murdered, beaten, it was unspeakable. And so that was the army. And they did do very bad things. But i would say this, that the United States grew understood that, and he accepted that, but again, grew was looking out for the United States, and he did not want the United States to become involved in a war, if they could avoid it, with maintaining their integrity. In terms of what hall did, hall refused and i will give you my perspective. This is grews perspective. Grew felt certainly in retrospect that secretary of state hall was not receptive to suggestions which degree had made that grew thought would avoid the war, and so in terms of the mistakes, one of the mistakes that he made from grews perspective was concerned a meeting that grew that the japanese Prime Minister had requested a meeting with president roosevelt. And this is in the summer and fall of 1941. And this Prime Minister had a unique stature and he commanded respect among all the competing factions in japan, and he told grew that he was prepared to go to the United States and meet with roosevelt on american soil, anywhere roosevelt wanted, and that he would give the president concessions to reach an agreement to avoid war because this Prime Minister desperately wanted to avoid war, and in his camp was the emperor. Japan had an emperor who was revered throughout japan, and in those days, i think the emperor truly wanted a diplomatic resolution. And the Prime Minister told grew that if he could meet with roosevelt, he had the support of the emperor to stop the fighting of japanese troops in china. Hall did not want roosevelt to meet with the Prime Minister, and he convinced roosevelt not to meet with the Prime Minister. Roosevelt wanted to meet with the Prime Minister because president roosevelt had great confidence in his ability to deal with other people, and he met with a lot of foreign leaders during world war ii. So in terms of grews thought about what hall did wrong, i think grew felt that hall was very inflexible and unreceptive to suggestions that grew thought might lead to an avoidance of war. Thank you. Did grew feel that the japanese would ever withdraw from china . And if not, what would be the basis of a peace treaty . Did he think that japan would ever withdraw from china . Yes. He thought its interesting you bring that up. Thats a good point. So when grew was sailing back from japan, in august 1942, and he had this report that i described a moment ago, that he wanted to give to president roosevelt and to secretary of state kordell hall. While he was on the ship, coming back to america, grew wrote a very long letter that would be a cover letter to president roosevelt, and this was like a dear frank letter. These two guys went to school together. So grew and roosevelt knew each other very well. So grew drafted a dear frank letter on the ship to explain that he was attaching a copy of this report, and in that letter, grew explained that this japanese Prime Minister that i just mentioned a moment ago had said that the chinese troops would be withdrawn except for a small contingent, and so thats what grew was told and that the Prime Minister as i said had told grew that the Prime Minister had the support of the emperor in doing that. In an interview about 30 years ago, when asked if he had [inaudible] he said he would have been assassinated by the army if he had bucked the army. I cant respond to that because i havent seen that comment. I can tell you that the emperor was revered, but the emperor was somebody he wasnt a passive receptacle. Throughout this time period, he was engaged with both the civilian and the military in what they should do. And i will tell you that in the final months, in the fall of 1941, when a lot of people in the military were pushing for a war with the United States, that the emperor did not want it. So this Prime Minister, i mentioned a moment ago, he resigned in october 1941 because he could not get the meeting with roosevelt. The new Prime Minister was very well known in many circles because he was Prime Minister when japan attacked pearl harbor. He was a general in the japanese army. And there was a lot of pressure from the army from which he came to go to war with the United States. And the advisors told him when he became Prime Minister in october 1941 that he should ignore every policy statement that japan had adopted previously and it was called a wipe the slate clean message and that he was to do everything he could, within reason, to reach a diplomatic resolution with the United States, and he did from his perspective, he felt that he had to abide by that. It didnt work out of course in part because as i say, i think the japanese rightly or wrongly felt that they were never going to get anywhere with the United States in reaching an agreement. So the bottom line is, i cant speak to the comment that you made because i never saw that interview, but i can tell you, that the generals were willing to stay their hand in response to a request from the emperor that they find a diplomatic resolution. Thank you. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Question for you, during the period of time youre speaking about, did joseph grew have any communication or a good repertoire, if any, with william dodd who was fdrs ambassador to germany at that time . Well, thats an interesting comment because i actually do discuss that in my book. Heres the reason why you should go buy the book. [laughter] so i do talk about that. Dodd died i believe in 1940 at the age of 70. In 1941, dodds diary was published in the United States. It was later used as a basis of a book by eric larson called in the garden of beasts. When dodds book came out, grew was very much aware of who he was because joseph grew was a dean of the United States diplomatic corps, and so he was very interested in seeing what dodd had to say about germany, in part because grew had served in the embassy in germany and in part too because like dodd, he was wrestling with a country bent on war. And so there are probably i cant remember i would say a good 10 to 15 pages of grews diary that are devoted to his analysis of dodds tenure as the ambassador to germany, between 1933 and 37. I dont want to spend a lot of time here detailing that, but the bottom line of it was that grew had a very low opinion of dodd as an ambassador and thought he did not serve the country well because he did not grew felt that dodd had not accurately or adequately advanced american interests in dealing with hitler. I wanted to go back to grews suggestions to roosevelt and kordell hall, besides the meeting with the Prime Minister, were there other suggestions . Yeah, there were a number of other suggestions. One suggestion that grew made was he felt that roosevelt should issue a statement that would be well publicized in the United States, that grew would have publicized in japan, if roosevelt would explain the benefits that would accrue to japan if they abandoned their military policies and adopted more peaceful courses. Grew was concerned because the japanese a lot of the Japanese Press was controlled by the government. And the japanese leaders, the Japanese Press and the japanese leaders grew felt had a mistaken view about sentiment in the United States. As you know, there were a lot of isolationist movements led by lindberg and others in the United States. Whenever isolationists in the United States made statements, they were given great publicity in japan. Grew was concerned that the japanese had a mistaken view of what the United States was willing to do and whether the United States would stand up for itself. And so he wanted to counter that, and he told roosevelt that if you can make a statement to explain the benefits that would accrue to japan, i will make sure through my contacts that this gets a lot of publicity so that everybody, japanese leaders and the japanese people, can understand the benefits that they would have if they change their policies. That was one suggestion that roosevelt never accepted. I was wondering what was japans overall Strategic Plan for the empire and their place in the world . So had there been a peace treaty that would have been signed, would they have kept expanding throughout Southeast Asia, and would war have been eventual . Well, nobody can answer that question. I would say this, that grew thought that theres no guarantees in this business. Theres so many factors, and the situation is so fluid. So he could not to answer your last point first, he couldnt guarantee as to what the future would hold, but he did think that if the United States could reach an agreement, that japan might get the benefits that it was seeking without war. You have to remember, that japan is an island a nation of islands. They have very few resources, and so they had they have a big population, but no resources or few resources. China and Southeast Asia were very important to the japanese because they were rich in the resources that japan did not have. Japan had a legitimate right to be in china. They had a railroad, and they had other rights that enabled them to stay there. And they could have stayed there. Japan had had interests in china long before there was a war. So i guess the response to your question is, grew certainly believed that there was a chance, a reasonable chance that there could be some benefit to japan and peace. But i will tell you, to go to your other point, as i mentioned, japanese leaders understood the risk of war with the United States. They understood that they could not survive in a long war with the United States. In fact, an admiral is the one who devised the strategy to attack pearl harbor, and he did it because he said japan cant last in a long war with the United States. The only way we can survive in a war is to deal the United States a crippling blow at the outset. He thought that maybe pearl harbor an attack at the naval base of pearl harbor would do that. But even the admiral, in september of 1941, said that a war with so little chance of success should not be fought. So theres a possibility that certain elements of japan would have responded to an agreement that would promise the benefits that japan needed. Thank you. Thank you. One short question was why if mr. Grew was a good friend of Franklin Roosevelt did he not send a letter not just to mr. Hall, but his boss, but hey, frank, you ought to understand what i know. Why didnt he speak up . I mean today people would do that. What was the attitude in 1942 . 41 . Well, thats a good question. And the short answer is that grew did write several dear frank letters periodically. He knew the president was very busy with so many things, but periodically he did write letters to president roosevelt. As i say der frank letters. Dear frank letters. The problem was that roosevelt was primarily concerned with hitler, and roosevelt deferred most of the japanese the decisions on japanese policy to hall because he was so focused on that. To give you an example of what happened, so grew wrote a letter to president roosevelt, one of these dear frank letters, on september 29th, 1941, to tell him about the things that he thought roosevelt should do including meeting with the japanese Prime Minister to see if they could reach an agreement. What happens . The letter comes to roosevelt. Roosevelt gives the letter to the state department to draft a reply, and they finally gets a reply from roosevelt thats drafted by the state depth on october 30, 1941. Well by then the horse had left the barn, and by then the Prime Minister who wanted to have this agreement had been forced to resign because he could not arrange this meeting. But grew recognized that, felt that theres only so many letters you can write, and i guess the question is should he have come back from japan . Travel wasnt easy in those days. Anyhow, thats a good question. You have one more question . Just one more. Dont sell yourself short. Yeah, well, it depends on your answer. [laughter] okay. You mentioned that ambassador grew was like the dean of the diplomatic core. Yes, but by that i mean hes a senior diplomat. Right. Now, there was the existence at that time of something called an aabd alliance in the southwest pacific. It stands for australia, america, britain, and Dutch East Indies. And this was approved this was signed off by fdr, secretary of war, stimpson and knox. It was not a treaty per se because it had never been approved by the senate. Now, my question heres my question, based on the knowledge and the existence of this treaty, and as early as february 28th, 1941, there was a combined Communications Alliance that was held by these four countries, and they exchanged all of the code information that all those countries knew collectively with the United States. Everybody had some skin in the game. The u. S. Was short on intelligence, but yet at least we had some ships. Anyway, my question is, was senator grew aware of this alliance, and did the state department ie the embassy in japan have any crossover or exchange of information with either the navy or the intelligence, if you know . Thats a good question. The short answer of that is that grew was a civilian employee. So grew had very little contact with the military in the United States. But that said, grew was friends with and collaborated with the diplomats from all those countries you mentioned and tokyo. I mentioned one story for example about his dinner with the British Ambassador. Grew and sir robert, they were very close. Grew was on very good terms and close terms with all of the ambassadors or ministers from the United States allies. And they exchanged information regularly. They met regularly. And so anything that they felt they could share, they did. So they were all pretty much in the same boat. After grew returned from japan, did he have a role in u. S. Policy towards japan . Or what was he doing at that point . Thats a good question. So i guess because he was a loyal employee or subordinate, he destroyed that report. Grew actually continued in the state department. He started off as an assistant to secretary of state kordell hall. He then became chief of the far eastern division. Then in november of 1944, kordell hall resigned as secretary of state, and he was replaced by edward sentennius and later jimmy burns. In november 1944, grew was pinted undersecretary of state was appointed undersecretary of state, number two position in the state department. Up until august 1945, grew spent a lot of time as the acting secretary of state because the secretary of state was traveling around so much. They were forming the united nations. They were dealing with a lot of other issues that required the secretary of state to travel to different places, and when the secretary of state was out of outside of washington, grew became the acting secretary of state. And the great irony is that grew was the acting secretary of state when the bombs were dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki. And then he retired on august 15, 1945, shortly after the last bomb was dropped. Was that in response to the no, at that point grew was 65 years old, in those days, 65 was considered old. Today its middle age; right . But he was 65 years old, and so he retired. He commanded the respect of a lot of people which goes back to the story i mentioned about the Retirement Party for general george c. Marshall. Grew was asked to provide remarks at that dinner because of his stature. Thank you. Thank you. Grew was a p. O. W. Was his treatment changed at all after the bombing on tokyo, and did he have any conversation or connection with some of the prisoners of that . The short answer is i dont know if he had communication, but they were held more or less in communicado in the embassy. It was a very nice embassy, one of the nicest embassies the United States had. They had two buildings. A lot of the people who worked in the embassy lived outside the embassy before pearl harbor. When pearl harbor occurred, everybody, all the Embassy Staff had to be relocated inside the embassy. There was not enough room for everybody in the embassy and so offices were turned into bedrooms so that people could stay there. But grew did not have any i dont think he had any contact with any other prisoners of war. Is that your question . He really didnt. They were pretty much confined to the embassy. They didnt have radio communications, and they were rarely let out of the embassy. The treatment of them was not changed when the bombing hit . Well, i would say they were treated better than most prisoners of war. They were living in the American Embassy, as i mentioned, which is it was crowded, but it was a very nice embassy. So they had life relatively good compared to the treatment of other prisoners of war. And on that score, just by way of comparison, journalists who had american journalists who were in tokyo, reporting for the newspaper, almost all of the newspaper journalists were arrested as prisoners of war. They were thrown into jail. They were tortured. And just to give you one little story about that, now that you bring it up, is that on the ship that was supposed to take grew back to the United States, they were taking back all the embassy and other americans and all the journalists, the japanese let go, released the journalists and they were on that ship as well. There was a delay because the United States insisted on getting some people from northern japan on the ship, so there was a delay in the ship leaving in the harbor. But the passengers were not told why there was a delay, and so a lot of the passengers became very concerned that the ship was not going to leave and that they were going to be taken off the ship and taken back on to land in japan. One of the journalists there said i will jump in the water and drown myself before ill go back on land in japan. So that should give you some picture of how the japanese treated other prisoners of war. Give a round of applause [applause] again, i want to thank you for coming. Your patience, and i just hope if you do read the book, i hope you enjoy it, and i hope you learn something from it. Thank you. There will be a book signing in the lobby. [applause] this sunday book tv features three new nonfiction books at 2 00 p. M. Eastern, Harvard University law professor offers his thoughts on how Sexual Misconduct accusations should be handled, in his book guilt by accusation. I dont want it to go away. I want to disprove it, categorically, and so, you know, i wrote the book. I have all the documents in the back. I have the fbi interviews. I have the narrative she wrote. I have the emails she tried to suppress. I have the tape recordings of her lawyers. Theres nobody reading this book that could come away with any doubt whatsoever that this woman made up this story completely, that i never met her. Out of her own mouth, i never met her. Then at 7 15 p. M. Eastern, in her latest book the truth will set you free, but first it will she chronicles her life and career through a collection of essays and notable quotes. I think it is helpful to see, you know, what came before, because now the me too Movement Thanks to all of this and thanks to technology and the web, is now all over the world. But its a process, and now it is a majority consciousness. And at 9 00 p. M. Eastern, on afterwords, university of maryland Baltimore County president on his book the empowered university. Hes interviewed by author and antipoverty firm robin hood ceo wes moore. We are through our work in the humanities to the sciences, looking at ways of helping students to learn to ask the hard questions to read critically, but to appreciate the value of evidence in a society that is bombarding us with information and different points of view with things being confused about what is truth and what is not. Educated people should have the skills to ask the questions that will lead to the evidence that can therefore determine what is truth. Watch book tv this weekend and every weekend on cspan 2.
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