Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Homeland Security Committee Hearing On Facial Recognition Other... 20240713

Department of Homeland Security is use of facial recognition and other Biometric Technologies. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare the canadian recess at any point. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good morning. The committee on Homeland Security is meeting with the use of peaceful recognition and other Biometric Technologies. The governments use of biometrics is not entirely new. For example, fingerprints have been used as an identification tool for many decades. Other biometrics include dna, patterns and palm prints. In recent years facial recognition has become the new chosen form of Biometric Technology as basil brush facial Recognition Technology has advanced it is used by the government and private sector also increased. Currently the dhs is collecting and storing several different kinds of biometric information and is using this information for multiple purposes. Cbp and the tsa are using biometrics to conform the identities of travelers, for example. Secret service is piloting a Surveillance System using facial recognition. Im not opposed to Biometric Technology and recognize it can be valuable to the Homeland Security and facilitation. However, its prohibition across the dhs raises serious questions about privacy, Data Security for transparency, inaccuracy. The American People deserve answers to those questions before the federal government rushes in to deplore the biometrics further. Last month the committee had a roundtable discussion for both industry and privacy and Civil Liberties stakeholders about the department of Homeland Security is increasing use of Biometric Technologies. Stakeholders have sufficient concerns that the data dhs is collecting and whether the department is safeguarding the rights appropriately. They have good reasons to be concerned. The standards americans may not know when, where or why the department is collecting the biometrics. People also may not know that they have the right to opt out or how to do so. Worse yet, they may not know the Biometric Technology is in use as it is the case when the facial recognition is used to passively surveilled a crowd like under the secret Service Pilot program. Recent reports also indicate ice has been scanning through millions of americans drivers license photos without their knowledge or consent. These troubling reports are stark reminders that the Biometric Technologies should only be used for authorized purposes in a fully transparent manner. Data security is another important concern. Frankly the federal government doesnt have a great track record for securing americas personal data and biometric information can be particularly insensitive. Unfortunately, earlier this year that cbp subcontractors experienced a significant data breach including travelers senators, raising important questions about Data Security. Americans want to know that if the government collects their biometric data, they are going to keep it secure from hackers and other bad actors. Moreover, the accuracy of certain Biometric Technology isnt a question despite the advancement in the recent years. Studies by highly regarded academic institutions have found facial Recognition Systems in particular are not as accurate for women and darker skinned individuals. Last july the Civil Liberties union conducted a test using amazons facial recognition to call recognition. A sealed you build a database for 25,000 publicly available arrest of those. Using recognition, a sealed you search the database using pictures of every current member of congress. The software incorrectly matched 20 members, 28 members with individuals that had criminal records. Although the misidentified members included both democrats and republicans, men and women anin a wide range of ages, neary 40 of the false matches were people of color. This is unacceptable. It is not fair to expect certain people in our society to shoulder a disproportionate burden of the technologys shortcomings. Before the government deploys the technologies further, they must be scrutinized and the American Public needs to be given the chance to weigh in. The biometrics of facial recognition technologies may be a useful Homeland Security facilitation tool. But as with any tool that has the potential to be misused. Especially it falls into the wrong hands. Today the committee will hear from federal witnesses on this important topic. I am pleased that we have witnesses from the custom and Border Protection for the transportation security administration, secret service and the National Institute of standards and technologies before us. They represent just a few of the agencies involved in the governments increasing use of Biometric Technologies. Healthhow big are using is it cy in the future plan. I expect a good conversation towards the end of today the Washington Post article entitled u. S. Customs Border Protection had photos of travelers who been taken in a data breach. A july 7 Washington Post article entitled fbi, state drivers license photos are a gold mine of facial recognition searches and july 9 letters in the biometric association and with privacy and Civil Liberties group many of whom were in the meetings and briefings last month. Without objection, so ordered. The chair now recognizes the Ranking Member of the full committee, the gentleman from alabama for an opening stateme statement. They have the potential to secure. They range from facial recognition to fingerprints to dna. Each of these present unique privacy considerations but also cleared security. Not only do they authorize the dhs to verify the identities, but it requires that cbp to collect the data for all foreign nationals. This requirement has been longstanding bipartisan mandate. Recent advancements have finally made it possible. The primary focus is facial recognition where the travelers are already providing ids to government employees. The agents can reduce several hundred in a single shift. As a result of human error allows them to slip into the country everyday. Automating the process of Biometric Technology will improve transportation security. Tsa has done their homework on the checkpoint pilots and are working to build accurate, effective and secure systems. Dhs should continue to collaborate with experts to ensure they are using accurate algorithms to power the systems. Biometric systems advance the mission beyond transportation security. We recently conducted a rapid dna Pilot Program to do that by family ties on the southwest sot border. A 90 minute task can place hours of interviews and talking reviews. The short pilot found a disturbing number of cases where men who claimed to be the biological parent of a child quickly changed her story and asked his dna. The technology doesnt store dna in the central database and each machine can be purged daily. The humanitarian crisis on the border, we should be looking at things like rapid dna to protect children from abuse by smugglers who rent them as a ticket into the country. Additionally we should be using biometrics to enforce the immigration laws. Reports have emphasized the use of dmv photos to identify criminals. I do not believe that anyone has a reasonable expectation of privacy in a government id photo, period. Police have long relied on photo books and manuals for the reviews to identify suspects known as fugitives. Or known fugitives. The facial recognition technologies can improve lawenforcement by rating the process by human error. Each of these examples use biometrics is a part of the process. Technology cannot and should not replace officers final judgment, but it can speed up the Identity Verification for millions of people every year. Halting all of the programs as some of my colleagues suggest is an easy way to avoid hard questions. Taking the easy way out will not increase the gap between technology and the ability to understand. Dhs should continue to consult with experts to develop clear public standards for the government of biometric systems. Dhs leadership should ensure that the biometric database is secure and has clear privacy guidelines. And congress should continue to educate the way we can deploy the technology responsibly. Thank you mr. Chair and i will yield back. Thank you. Other members of the committee are reminded of the Committee Rules Opening Statements may be submitted for the record. I know where welcome the panel of witnesses. Witnesses. The first witness is mr. John wagner, deputy executive assistant commissioner at the u. S. Customs and Border Protection. Next mr. Alston gold assistant administrator for the requirements and capabilities analysis at the transportation security administration. Next joseph r. , the chief Technology Officer of the u. S. Secret service and finally doctor charles romaine, the director of the laboratory at the commerce departments National Institute of standards and technologies. I look forward to hearing from you all today. Without objection the witnesses. Fullstop and will be inserted into the record in bible now ask each to summarize his or her statement for five minutes beginning with mr. Wagner. Chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers, members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of u. S. Customs and Border Protection. Id like to begin with a few excerpts from the 9 11 commission report. When people travel internationally they move through channels or portals and it may seem to acquire a passport and it may be to apply for a visa or exit controls at airports and seaports. Upon arrival because through inspection points. They may transit to another gate to get on an airplane. Each of these is a screening. The chance to establish people are who they say they are in seeking access for the stated purpose. The job of protection is shared among the many t many defined checkpoints. By taking advantage of them all, we need not depend on anyone in the system to do the whole job. The challenge is to see the common problem across agencies and functions and to develop a conceptual framework and architecture for the effective screening system. Throughout the government an ann the private enterprise, agencies, programs report that judgments securities and Civil Liberties and these problems should be addressed systemically, not in and at half the recommended way. The excerpts from the 9 11 commission report. Before cbp present a different strategy, the airlines private vendors and agencies including dhs were developing their own independent biometricbased schemes. In other words exactly what the commission warned against doing. Doing. An ad hoc fragmented approach. Cbp has developed a plan that includes other authorities and responsible for these omissions that beyond just the biometric entry exit mandate for foreign nationals. The solution have to encompass the entire travel spectrum. We need a solution that would also comport with modernization and emerging biometric plans of airports, airlines and cruise lines. Why . Because we dont have a Transportation System that allows the easy segmentation of the foreign visitors on international departures. Previous dhs efforts failed for ten years because they tried to create a standalone stovepipe of an integrated process. As we all know those plans were cost prohibitive, would create massive congestion and significant opposition from the airlines and travel industry. As a result of cbp developed a service that automates the manual facial recognition process that goes on today. When a traveler presents a passport to establish their identity. To be clear, cbp is only comparing the picture taken against those photos of those provided by travelers to the u. S. Government for the purposes of International Travel. This is not a surveillance program. Since airlines and cruise lines are required by statute to provide passport details of all travelers in the itineraries, the cbp has a small gallery of photos of the expected travelers. The galleries are primarily from passports, visas and Previous International arrivals. A photo was taken and searched against the distinct galleries and thereby validating the Biographical Data that has already been vetted for National Security and Law Enforcement concerns and corresponds to the traveler we all expect it to. We do not run the photo in the airport against any other databases or sources of information if it matches back pre stage photo. The traveler matchers the passport, a new photo taken is deleted. Theres no need for us to keep it. U. S. Citizens are not part of the biometric entry system. Recognizing the concerns raised over the inclusion of u. S. Citizens, cbp has existing authorities and responsibilities to determine citizenship and identity of all people traveling internationally. This is the u. S. Government responsibility, not the private sector. Its all so unlawful for a u. S. Citizen to travel internationally without a u. S. Passport. Generally determination of u. S. Citizenship is done by comparing the tribe against the passport. We are simply automating and using a computer algorithm to enhance the manual facial recognition existing process. As we start at Dulles Airport a few months ago, travelers presented passports claiming to be u. S. Citizens was found they were foreign nationals and imposters of the documents. As far as partnerships with stakeholders, cbp developed a standard set of business requirements that our partners agreed to with the cameras send a photo to the cbp the business requirements clearly stipulate they cannot keep the photos. Going back to the ad hoc fragmented approach mentioned earlier, the partners voluntarily agreed to this business requirements. This makes the same old consistent transparent approach to the use of technology for International Travel. Cbp is already bound by existing privacy technologies and Data Collection requirements found in the privacy act, the Government Act and Homeland Security act. The private sector partners are basically signing onto the same requirements. We do recognize we can improve the public understanding of the requirements and the opt out provisions. Weve published a comprehensive Impact Assessment, required system that is record for the databases and rulemaking to put updates into the federal regulations its currently circulating in the government. In conclusion, we are solving a difficult challenge, biometric exit. Solving it by focusing on the overall turnover experience building a efficient, secure International Travel experience. Airlines and cruise lines reported reduced porting times and increased Passenger Satisfaction using the system. It will allow us to build a worldclass travel system in the u. S. This will be the envy of the world as we try to keep pace with the recordbreaking growth in International Travel. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I look forward to the questions. I now recognize mr. Goldberg is summarized statement for five minutes. By chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers and established members of the committee thank you for inviting me today to discuss the future of the biometric identification transportation committee. I am the administrator fo the ae requirements capabilities analysis of the tsa. Id like to thank the committee for working with tsa as we continue to improve the security of Transportation Systems and particularly for your support of the officers in the field. The Aviation Transportation security act of 2001 established tsa and requirements to screen all passengers boarding aircraft. The requirement includes passenger Identity Verification. The act mentions the tsa authority use for this purpose. Recognizing the need to identify passengers in a fraudulent means of identification is becoming increasingly prevalent and sophisticated. Tsa has sought new processes and technologies to improve the performance while protecting the passengers privacy. Privacy. Biometrics represent such technologies. In 2018, tsa released a biometrics road map that identifies the steps the agency is taking the test potential expanding of the identification capabilities. The roadmap has four major goals. Part of the customs Border Protection on the biometrics for International Travelers, operationalize the biometrics of the pre check passengers, expand biometrics traditional travelers and develop the infrastructure to support the biometric efforts. Consistent with the roadmap, tsa is conducting the facial recognition for the passenger identity at certain airports. These pilots have limited scope and duration and are being used to evaluate Biometric Technology for tsa use. These have been executed in conjunction with customs and Border Protection and have been supported by privacy Impact Assessments and passengers have the opportunity to not participate. In these cases the standard manual identification process is used. Last month they pilot underway for the international passengers. The captured camera for this was an active mode meaning it only captured a facial image after the passengers was in position and the officer activated it. After the committee on the government oversight and reform government oversight and reform hearing on the fourth of june the tsa collecteand the tsa cola in atlanta to demonstrate over 99 of travelers chose to use biometric identification and also based on feedback from the hearing we have deployed the signage in both spanish and english to ensure passengers arent aware that the biometrics are being used into the procedure for opting out. An example of that is currently displayed on a monitor. The tsa is committed to addressing accuracy, privacy and Cyber Security concerns associated with the capture and matching. In that regard, and pursuant to section 1919 of the modernization act, dhs will submit a report that includes assessments by tsa and cbp that were developed to support of the dhs Science Technology directorate. The report will address accuracy and privacy issues associated with biometric identification. It will also schedule a meeting with the privacy groups later this summer to ensure they understand the tsas limited use of biometric identification. The opportunity to address any concerns as a followon to the participation, the earlier biometrics industry. Looking ahead, tsa plans to continue to build upon the successes by conducting additional selected locations for the refined requirements for biometrics use. These will continue to be supported by privacy Impact Assessments. Clearly identified through the bilingual airport signage and pass them as well always have the opportunity to choose not to participate. Biometrics represent a unique opportunity for tsa. This capability can increase the Security Effectiveness for the entire Aviation System while also increasing the throughput at the checkpoint and enhancing the passengers experience. The ability to increase throughput while providing more accurate identification will be a essential as they continue to grow at approximately 4 annually. In fact weve experienced the busiest travel days last sunday on the fourth of july weekend when we screened approximately 2. 8 million passengers and crew. To close, tsa is systematically assessing biometrics for the tsa use and this identification process will enhance Aviation Security while also increasing the passenger throughput and making air travel more enjoyable. The system will only be used for passenger identification and to direct the passenger to the appropriate level of screening. Automating what is a manual process that will not be used for any Law Enforcement purposes and is always passengers will have the opportunity to not participate. Thank you for the opportunity to address this issue before the committee and i look forward to answering your questions. Thank you for your testimony and i will now recognize you too summaries were stupiofsummariese minutes. Good morning to chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers and distinguished members of the committee. I am the chief Technology Officer of the secret service. I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the secret service use of biometrics and performance of the integrated mission. As previously conveyed this to the secret service has concerns about testifying in an open hearing on how we use these technologies to enhance the protective mission. Therefore my testimony today on this issue will focus on the Current Technology Pilot Program we are conducting at the white e house complex. The secret service guards the means and methods. In this environment to use against us it would be wise to discuss in a public setting certain assets, capabilities and protocols to carry out the protective mission however we welcome the opportunity to provide this information to you in a closed briefing. Biometric tools such as fingerprint analysis and collection are used on a regular basis by this service to investigate, locate and sometimes arrest individuals have committed crimes to include offenses related to threats against secret service. We understand the rapid expansion of the Biometric Technology creates the need to balance capabilities of the need to preserve the publics expectation of privacy and the secret service is committed to ensuring a balance that protects the rights of all individuals. Respect the fingerprints o the secret service has a longstanding program that plays an integral part in our of our investigative and personal security process. Our ability to process, store, search and retrieve the fingerprint images is an operational necessity. During the course of investigations involving fingerprint and a palm print evidence, the examiners of the secret service utilize a variety of databases, search the prints for matches on the subjects. With respect to dna, the evidence is one of the most of it is identification tools available to the Law Enforcement today. Related to the Dna Technology its been rapid and secret service remained dedicated to utilizing new applications to enhance the mission. The secret service collected samples along with subjects fingerprints as part of the identification and arrest process. Samples are sent to the fbi for dna testing, search and storage in the national dna database. Prospective facial Recognition Technology can secret service, e recognizes this technology has the potential to be a powerful tool to assist in preventing attacks and there must be a balance between security and any potential privacy or other constitutional concerns. In 2014, the secretary of Homeland Security established the independent battle to conduct an assessment of security at the white house complex. Among other important organizations, the panel stated Technology Systems used on the complex must always remain on the cutting edge into the secret service must invest in the Technology Including becoming a driver for research and development and assist in this mission. The recommendations come the secret service is currently working on a facial recognition pilot on whether the facial Recognition Technology can be effectively deployed to enhance the protective mission. While the pilots start in december of 2018 is scheduled to be completed by the end of august of 2019 from the secret Service Began contemplating this pilot as far back as august of 2014. The participants are secret Service Employees who volunteered to take part in this effort. Designated white house cameras that are part of the video medicament system capture volunteers as they move through various locations while in the white house complex. Software running out of server dedicated to the pilot and not a closed Network Connected to the internet seeks to match the images of the volunteers at the images in the video streams. They are stored in a associate with a match to one of the volunteers and at the conclusion of the pilots, all images will be purged. The secret Service Commitment to maintaining First Amendment protections and the desire to address personal privacy considerations are central factors behind any future implementation of the facial Recognition Technology. Secret service will adopt new technologies unless they have been vetted to ensure privacy protections and data safeguards are in place. In closing, the protection of the nations leaders is paramount to the agency and to the nation. The partnerships representativd here today both in congress and in the dhs are critical to the success of the secret service operations. Thank you for the opportunity to testify concerning the agencys use of these evolving technologies and i look forward to working with you as we move forward. This concludes my testimony and i will welcome any questions you may have at this time. Thank you for the testimony. I now recognize doctor romain to summarize his statement for five minutes. Chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers and members of the committee, i am a director of the Information Technology laboratory at the department of commerce National Institute of standards and technology. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the role of the biometric standards and testing for facial Recognition Technology. In the area of biometrics, weve been working with public and private sectors since the 1960s. The work improves the accuracy, quality, usability, interoperability, and consistency of Identity Management systems and ensures the United States interests are represented in the international arena. Research has provided stateoftheart technology benchmarks and guidance to industry and u. S. Government agencies that depend on biometrics recognition. We lead the national and International Consensus standards activities in the biometrics such as facial Recognition Technology but also in the cryptography, electronic credentialing, secure network protocols, software and systems reliability and security testing. All essential to accelerate the deployment and Communications Systems that are interoperable, reliable, secure and usable. The biometric evaluations advanced the technology by identifying and reporting gaps and limitations of the recognition technologies. The evaluations advanced measurement science by providing a scientific basis for what to measure and how to measure. The evaluations also facilitate the development of the consensusbased standards by providing quantitative data for the scientifically sound fit for purpose standards. Since 2000, thebased Testing Program has assessed the facial recognition algorithms for one to many identifications and up to one verification. We expanded facial recognition evaluations and 27 team and broadened the scope of the work in the area to understand the upper limits of the human capabilities to recognize faces and how please capabilities fit into the facial recognition applications. Historically and currently, the Biometrics Research has assisted the department of Homeland Security and the dhs and the research was used by dhs and its transition from two to ten prints for the former u. S. Visit program. Currently, collaborated with dhs rbi and on face image quality standards and with dhs customs and Border Patrol on the evaluation of the traveler verification service. Working with dhs customs and Border Patrol to analyze the performance impact due to the image quality and traveler demographics and provide guidance and data that allows for cbp to set up a threshold given this activity and facilitation goals for the largescale recognition. The face recognition vendor Testing Program was established in 2000 to provide independent evaluations of both prototype and commercially available recognition algorithms. The second progress has been made in the algorithm improvements since the program was created. Nist is researching how to measure the accuracy of the forensic examiners matching identities across different photographs. The study measures identification accuracy for an International Group of professional examiners working under circumstances approximating the real world case works. Findings under the academy of sciences shows that examiners and other human face specialists including the forensically trained facial reviewers and untrained super recognizers were more accurate than the control groups on a challenging test of Face Identification. It also presented the data comparing stateoftheart facial recognition algorithms with the best human face identifiers. Optimal Face Identification was achieved only when humans and machines, but they did. As with all areas for face recognition, rigorous testing and Standards Development can increase productivity and efficiency in government and industry, expanding innovation and competition, broaden opportunities for international trade, conserve resources, provide consumer benefits and choice, improve the environment and promote health and safety. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the activities and facial recognition. I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you very much for your testimony. I will now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. Mr. Wagner, you talked a little bit about the biometric entry and exit system, and those of us whove been around, we historically have supported the system. In the beginning we talked about that system with the only used for foreigners and what i heard you talk about today, you expanded it to taking an american citizen. Can you explain the reasoning for that . The u. S. Citizen is a person presenting the u. S. Passport. Once we take the picture and match it with the passport photo which is in a manual review, we use the algorithm to make that decision and then the photo is discarded because there is no need for us to save it. What im trying to get at, this was a policy that cbp expanded even though Congress Gave you foreign politics. It helps us in the airline to determine who is in scope for biometric and who is out. Some buddy has to make that at the boarding area. Be unfair to us airline to do that to determine you see what im saying, does cbc come back into the congress were looking at expanding this authority but we need congressional approval . We dont see this as expanding the biometric injury exit authority we see this as using the authorities we have to do citize citizenship of an indl entering or departing the u. S. After looking for u. S. Citizen departing because they will warrant for their arrest. Travelers in the jetway and check passports. I understand why you do it, but what im getting out part of this hearing is to make sure that we as members of Congress Give you the authority that you need to do your job. But part of what im hearing you have taken your own initiative to do some things beyond the scope of authority that Congress Gave you. What i would like for you to do, is to provide the committee with the written policy by which you are doing this. Yes, absolutely. Doctor, you have been advising dhs a lot on some of these things. Have you looked at this expansion of Authority Without congressional intent we dhs . No, sir, that would be outside missing intermission space. Have you looked at the collection of data and how the Data Management is controlled once it is collected . No, sir. Mr. Wagoner, im back to you. Explain to the committee, the collection of data that this policy gives you, what do you do with it . When the picture is taken and comes into cbp and we match it against our prestates gallery photos that is comprised of experts in pieces in previous arrivals, if its for National Subject to the biometric entry exit mandate, that photograph will be sent over to dhs to be stored which is the department for repository for the information. If its a u. S. Citizen in that photo matches a u. S. Passport, or permanent resident or somebody outside of the scope of entry exit, that photograph will be held for 12 hours and deleted a purge from her systems. The only reason we hold them for the short period of time is just in case a system crashes and we have to restore everything. Are you aware of a recent subcontractor breach of data. Yes. Beg your pardon. Yes. How is not inconsistent with what you just expect test. What we are doing with that subcontractor, we were testing their camera on the u. S. Mexico land border on a standalone pilot system, it was not integrated into the main cbp met work and we were testing the taking of the photograph and the license plate and the ability to take a picture of a person in a vehicle and whether that would be masterful in this case, apparently as far as i understand the contractor physically remove those photographs from the camera itself and put it onto their own network which was then breached. The cbp network was not hacked, and what we see what i believe they removed that in violation of the contract and thats where the relationship is stubborn. So you see my concern of how we control the data we collect. Absolutely. Thank you i yield to the Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And when to pick up where the chairman was talking about, my understanding of your response is it your belief that you have the existing Statutory Authority to do what you doing, youre just exercising new technology in the process. Is that an accurate representation . Yes. Thank you. This has been an evolving technology, can you tell us what are the big changes affinity over the last five years when it comes to facial recognition and biometrics in general. Thank you. The advances have been dramatic according to our testing, the accuracy and capability of the newer systems that weve seen in the last few years what would be examples of newer systems. Neural networks and Machine Learning capability to do the Image Analysis matching. Is that a. I. . Its Machine Learning and artificial intelligence, yes, sir. These are dramatically improved over a Previous Technology that relied specifically on particular characteristics of faces for example. With suitable training, these systems have dramatically improved the accuracy for the best facial Recognition Systems. I want to be clear the testing we have done there is still a wide range of performance in the testing that we have done in the algorithms we have tested. But the best ones we have no direct knowledge of the internal networks or the Machine Learning because these are submitted as black boxes and we do not examine that, but in conversation with vendors who have submitted testing, that is the understanding that we have, the new Machine Learning capability that networks have been the significant advance. Advanced in Machine Learning alleviate in the concerns determine expressed about facial recognition being less accurate when it comes to females or darker skinned individuals . Because of the significant increases in the accuracy across the board, the effect of those demographic effects is diminishing, we have a report, were doing an analysis of demographic effects, under the testing we have done and that should be out this fall. When you have the test result do you share those with the public and the business communities . We do sir. We do that through public reporting and through dissemination with email and other interested party. You publish those guidelines . Yes. Im from the association of supporting facial recor recogni. Without objection. Without i yield back. Thank you. Doctor, just so were clear, the report you referenced are not relevant. Thats correct, it should be out this fall. So the data is that women and dark skinned people are misidentified more than anybody else. There are demographic effects that affect age, significant changes in age over time, race and sex. In a statistically valid manne manner is that women and dark skinned people . Yes. Thank you. The chair recognizes mrs. For five minutes. Thank you for bringing up this important issue. This technology is very interesting because comparative fingerprints, dna, you get it without essentially giving permission. You walked down record or, a camera picks you up in your information and then used without your authority or permission in ways we do not know about. Doctor, you talked about false positives based on ethnicity and other factors that technology has not got to the point where it counts to these factors. Mr. Wagoner i have a question, under the tsa modernization act of last year, it requires a public report on the deployment Biometric Technologies, tsa assessment, that report is now late. Any thoughts of when the report can be presented. It is circulating for final approval and signature. At any time . Yes. Will that be something that will be compared to actors report as also coming out. Moving forward from a tsa perspective we will look at any scientific reports and data that we possibly can to ensure biometric identification is performing for our cases. Before we get the report, let me ask you, right now the way facial recognition is being used by your department, is this affecting or burdening foreign travelers, race, gender, nationality. No. We are not seeing, review over data were not seen any significant error rates that are attributable to a specific demographic. Thats why we partnered to come in and review our data and help us look at it and make sure. Statistically you do have them reviewing the data who is reviewing it. Your conclusion is it is not adversely affecting commerce tourism, im from the state of california where commerce tourism is a big part of her economy. I want to make sure were not having a lot of false negatives. Is a beneficial effect because its allowing airlines and cruise lines to board and onboard people quicker. Excellent. I just want to make sure the experiences being improved and were reviewing internally our own data and not seen discrepancies. But we partnered with them throughout the summer and fall we will examine our data very closely to make sure that were not unduly hurting people of a specific term im glad to hear your enthusiastic and positive that is not unburdening. California and Ronald Reagan said we have to trust and verify to. I look forward to seeing your data and make sure we are on that. In terms of the data, the purging of the data once you use it. What system you have to make sure the data is purged in a timely matter. You just mentioned your subcontractor had a breach, that information is somewhere out there, you said that is the reason you terminated the contract yet to me when that information gets out there, terminating a contract is not enough of a deterrent to making sure that those kinds of breaches and that data is actually purged in a timely matter, are we doing anything to tighten up that system. The subcontractor may face subsequent action depending on the results. Criminal, civil . Potentially both depending on what the investigation is. Our office has investigated this and the ideas investigating this. Depending on circumstances how the data was taken and the intentions and why and how it was used, they could be criminal actions. The data breaches, who do you report those two and under what kind do you actually take to say this purge or this breach happened. They are supposed to report it to us immediately, we reported to congress if it meets the starch old and then internally what the actual would that be. I dont know offhand. I would like to look at that closer because clearly small versus large, is that your social . Size of the breach, whats the threshold. I believe its 100,000 but will get back to you on that. I am out of time but i think its very important that these breaches be reported immediately to congress. I agree. I am out of time so i yield. Are chair recognizes the gentleman from texas. Thank you, mr. Chairman. We want to protect Civil Liberties and privacy, somebody in the Public Domain doesnt understand the law school there is no privacy, this technology and my judgment has really protected the nation from smugglers, gang members and potential terrorist. I introduced the biometric transnational Migration Program last congress and passed unanimously on this committee, and passed on the house for 272 119. And always been held up. I would like to examine what the effect of not authorizing this program would have. Can you tell me what successes the program has had and particularly when it comes to individuals coming from other parts of the world that are known and basically suspect interest, special interest a wind or tfts, suspects the terrorist coming in up through latin america into the United States of america. The program is a minister by ice, its a program that they work with the foreign counterparts to utilize Fingerprint Technology to take fingerprints of those populations you referenced as a transit through certain countries and salt to roll in south america. Making their way on up through mexico to the u. S. If they show up in Central American country, the Foreign Authority will use the program to collect the passport information and the fingerprin fingerprints, when that person shows up at the southwest border and has mysteriously lost their prosper, were able to take the fingerprint to match it back up with the previous encounter in Central America to sufficiently identify who the person is. Is a true through the journey while the names and identities are changed that the biometrics do not change. Correct. That the best way to identify who this person really is. Correct. In this setting, i dont know if this is possible, can you give us some indication the members of special interest that have been stopped in this program and also known or suspected terrorist. I will have to give you back i dont have any today. How significant is it. Its significant. Its a vulnerability that as we seen when a terrorist connects the flight and we need to address that. Doctor, from what i hear from you, we dont want to get this wrong, i think she was talking about herself impossibly in the pool of candidates that can get mischaracterized. Tell us where we are right now with the technology. How accurate is it. The very best algorithms that weve tested most recently have false negative rates that are extremely low, the accuracy can range into, for the best algorithms can range into the 99. 7 range. 99. 7 accuracy. That is pretty good. That is a pretty good number. From a scientific standpoint we report the number and the judgment on what a pretty good number is is up to the policymakers but its a high number for me. It is very high, youre a scientist, i am not. I think it is always a balance in this committee and when we deal with Security Issues and privacy and civil liberty, we always have to balance these as americans and i think its important that we balance the factors but i would not want to do the baby out with the bathwater. The program is extremely successful and stoppabl stoppedt about actors coming into the United States. And i hope this committee can still advance the authorization and that bill through this congress because i think its important to protect the American People from the most important responsibility that we have as members of congress. With that i yield back. Thank you very much the chair recognizes the woman from mexico. Thank you, chairman and last month the cdp there was a data breach with the subcontractors operating at point of entry along the southern border. As a result thousands of license plate numbers and images of drivers driven were taken by facial recognition were lost. When we cross for jobs, shopping, tourism, medicine, also within the interior of the district there are border checkpoints and when they operate the same information being taken license plates, and facial pictures of people faces. We want to make sure the citizens data is secure. Were there audits into the subcontractor system prior to the hack . I am not aware of that. I do not know. I will have to check. And you get back to us. Did these subcontractors have the authority to store those data . They did not have the authority to have the pictures taken by the camera for what i understand. So not even to start, they did not have the authority to take pictures of faces. They had the authority to take them but not to take them off of the camera and put it onto their own network which is apparently what happened. And, what protocol did cbp have in place for contractor Data Security practice. They go through a background check, their cleared, the train on use of the system that they will work on, as far as having the audit controls this was a standalone pilot outside of our normal network and we apparently did not have the same level of controls and audit capability on that because it was a standalone close system. Those are things being put into place now on all those systems to make sure you can connect a portable media drive and extract information. Our network has these protocols but we did not have them on the system. Those are in place now and youve corrected the problem. There being put into place now. Can you followup and let us know when theyre in place. Absolutely. With all Pilot Programs, i remember going through the border checkpoint and being told this is a pilot, dont worry about it, that is when we need to make sure that were operating it correctly. I agree. I want to switch to congressional authorization, it is my understanding that its a law that congress is enacting that biometric entry exit system limit data to foreign national. Is that correct. Yes. Under what Authority Needs to be collecting biometric information on u. S. Citizens as part of the system. We are using the information under usc 1357b and 234. 1 which allows us to consider any information or evidence pertaining to a person crossing the border and establishing the u. S. Citizenship. Generally a person will present the passport to us, we can look at and manually review and ask questions how they obtained it. Im going to switch direction, i know some was covered so i appreciate it. I want to switch to the federal agency that is scanning through u. S. Citizens drivers license and ice is one that is potentially scanning through the database. But what purpose are your components attempting to her successfully accessing state drivers license database in any way . For the Biometric Program we are discussing, we are not using drivers license information. We do use drivers license information from the state that has entered into agreements with us where the drivers license substitutes for a passport to cross the border and i think we have five u. S. States and four canadian provinces that entered into a written agreement for mark the citizenship of the drivers license holder on the document so they can cross the border without having to get a passport that serves in lieu of the passport. Does the dmv require probable cause a warrant to access information. When they cross the border our agreement allows us to verify with them thats a valid license and to retrieve the photo so we can see who it belongs to. We also have other Law Enforcement access into biographical drivers license that we might use the Law Enforcement context. It is very common for Law Enforcement agencies to access. Thank you. Thank you very much the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york for five minutes. Thank you for being here today. Take a step back for a moment, as a federal prosecutor for 20 years and dealing with homicide in matters of violent crime. Some tools in the toolbox that i had were fingerprints and first and later dna. But it came online and it was how they were to be used and now theyre becoming more and mainstream. I hope and pray its the same with facial recognition. All three have the capability not only of helping to solve crimes but also making sure the crimes were committed and something we dont think about enough is exonerating people who are falsely accused. Look at the dna system has done for people falsely accused in prisons. Its been a remarkable breath of fresh air. So my concern is with using it and that they get it right. Like weve done with fingerprints and dna. So my question focuses on the accuracy and the things we can do to make it better and my colleagues are asking Great Questions about the use and the extent and we will have to have more discussions about that. Im concerned about the accuracy that was the big thing with the dna starting out another accuracy in testing is amazing and its a dispositive all the time. I would like to get there. With that in mind i want to ask a couple of questions, you talk about being charged with examining the gaps and limitations of certain things including facial recognition. What do you see the gaps and limitations are now. The principal gaps and limitations that we see involved a couple of things, one is image quality, it is still true garbage in, garbage out for software systems. So image quality has a huge impact, we see as i said with a report on demographics and certain issues associated with demographic effect. That is true when you try to identify someone and you have a reference image that is 10 20 years earlier than the person youre identifying. That can be a great challenge. Similarly if someone was injured or in obscuring of the face for other reasons, that can have a challenge. Images that are taken long cooperatively and i dont mean uncooperative i mean where someone is not standing still looking at a camera with the intent of registering it, if youre taking an image through a windshield for example or an image of someone who is walking and not facing the camera, that can have a Significant Impact on the accuracy and the ability of the systems to do identification. What can we do to improve that portion. The industry continues to make advances, i mentioned the emergence of a network which is a game changer and i think we dont know what we dont know coming down the pipe but i think there are continuing to be improvements that we see in our testing over time so the industry is making great strides. You mentioned when i question my colleagues that the demographic effect of facial Recognition Software is diminishing can you expand on that. You say 99. 7 accurate but probably not 99. 7 accurate with certain segments dark and female. What are we doing to make that better and how to make it stronger. That is correct. From this perspective what we do to make things better is provide an evaluation capability so were not doing training. That is understood. However, i would say anytime the overall performance of the system improves as dramatically as facial recognition has improved over the last 5 6 years, the compression and the effects of differences in demographics shrinks as well. And the report once we finished our analysis, the report that comes on the fall certain demographics show the disproportionate error rate. So youre saying its improving, how much has it improve . We have not finished the analysis so im not able to answer the question, the report will come out in the fall. I will say it is unlikely that we will ever achieve a point where every single demographic is identical across the board whether that is age, race or. But we want to know exactly how much the differences. In this report will detail when it comes on the fall . I yield back. We all look forward to the report i assure you. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from illinois. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I represent illinois 14 district where we drive one hour or two to get to the major airport in chicago our community is interested in learning more about the technology that can improve security at airports while reducing the fire wait time. Before implementing new Technology Like biometric screening its important and crucial to make sure proven to be effective, reliable and fair. Can you run through the ways in which tsa is currently employing biometric screening at checkpoint. Yes, maam, currently were only using Biometric Technology in the International Terminal f and atlanta. That is on a pilot basis. Our approach to biometric implementation is deliberative. We want to understand how the technology works, how it can improve, Identity Verification for the traveling public and how it will improve the passenger experience. Going back to the discussion on image quality, this happen before, we were in a fortunate case that tsa where we control the environment at our checkpoint so we can ensure optimal lighting and distance from the camera and get the high quality image possible for biometric matching. We are matched up with cbp using the t8 under tsa system in c matches there. Moving forward we will look to pilot 1 1 matching capability where a traveler will provide a credential and that will be assessed by our cat machine and will return a match rate on whether or not the phase has been captured and matches the phase embedded in the credential. In that scenario no information leaves the checkpoint and nothing retained on the camera. That is some of the things that we look at. I believe when were through with these pilots that were doing for biometric development we will see we cannot only prove passenger security but make a more positive experience for the traveling public for wait time. s how are the airports and Airlines Using the Screening Technology beyond the tsa checkpoint if youre aware and what uses are planned for the future . Right now i can comment on what were doing and alanna with Delta Air Lines in atlanta, the Delta Airline kiosks use biometric identification when a passenger checks in if they choose to do so to make sure the person is the passenger who is on that flight. Tsa has oversight of the backdrop to ensure the passengers are positively matched for International Travel. Delta airline has a Security Program a moment and granted them to use Biometric Technology to do the matching at the backdrop, we use it at our checkpoint in atlanta and then subject at the exit point of the gate. Is that the only agreement with an airport or airline that tsa has two govern the use of biometric. Right now the Security Program amendment that we have with delta for the limited use only and atlanta is only formal agreement that we have entered into with the airline. So does tsa have any role in improving airport and airline uses a Biometric Technology . We have rolls in improving the use of Biometric Technology and tsa has equity, we go back to say that is the checkpoint in the backdrop. If an airline wants to use biometric at the backdrop to match the traveler to the bag, they would have to request a security amendment and we would have to issue it. As the use of biometric data continues to expand illinois has a lot of questions about how sensitive personal data is used and stored. I like to open this question to the panel, under what circumstances do your put come components collect on u. S. Citizens. We can start with mr. Wagon mr. Wagoner. We are temporarily holding it while we validate a response to the passport that person is presenting in the nez perce 12 hours after the system. From a tsa perspective we are leveraging photographs that travelers have provided to facilitate traveling passport photographs. We capture the image it is not retained on the camera. Once the image is encrypted and transmitted we only get a match result. Okay. Secret service collects fingerprints, for some prints, mugshots and other information on individuals who we arrest, as part of the criminal investigation. But not part of the regular screening and obtaining the data that you collected prior to regular screening . That is correct. You do not score. No metal detectors and xrays and things like that. Fingerprints to the white house. We do not use fingerprints, we do not scan for that. The data that we have is sequestered in servers that are gapped, they are not connected to the internet in the locked door, im a director of a laboratory and im not committed to going to that room without being escorted. It is very tightly controlled. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from north carolina. Mr. Walker. Thank you, mr. Chairman. 99. 7 is pretty good or ironically the same onbase percentage that we have at the annual baseball game but thats another topic. [laughter] a problem not a topic. [laughter] i have a question, have you assured and i think ms. Underwood was approaching this, how do you assure the Data Collected is secured. If the biometric identifier connected directly to other possibly sensitive or private information about the person. The data that we have on facial recognition is not connected to identifying information. So i will have to double check the exact features there can you do that and report back. You are saying the information you collect is secured. The information we collect we do not collect we obtain it from our partners for the purpose of evaluation only. And we secure that in a secure server. But used up tane instead of collect. Have you ever had a breach . No, sir. Question for the panel, keep it ten or 15 seconds so we can get everybody in. Can you elaborate more on these programs that have been successful specifically on the ones identifying facial recognition and any other Biometric Technology, you can elaborate of the success or adding security benefits or expediting travel for passengers. We will start with mr. Wagoner. It can validate a person biographic identity within 2 3 seconds without having to handle a physical passport and allows us to link it in a secure way with the person on the National Security checks and tsa and International Flights and correspondent of the person who is in front of a. We do Data Collection on the number of people we are choosing not to provide biometric identification at the checkpoint and it was less then 1 people seem to enjoy it. The traveling public moves very rapidly and the best part, we enhance Identity Verification by enhancing security. Does that impact you at all . Not really. We are piloting technology but were in the middle of the test so we have not compiled the data. The test will finish at the end of august and we will have to go through and review and draw conclusions. At this point were still in the middle of the test. Going down the panel, based on the successes specifically mr. Wagoner, what do you see the Biometric Technology expanding in your specific agency even beyond the Pilot Program. It will significantly transform the arrivals and departures on International Travel and all of the different environments air, land and sea. It can build a convenient efficient civility to insecure process for us to do that. For us we will build on the success of International Partnership to other International Travel locations, we will look to use the cbp system for our trusted travel population to do one too many matching for biometric purposes other checkpoint. Really the next step is the onetoone matching that i mentioned before were a traveler can approach a checkpoint, provide a credential at the cat machine and assess the image embedded in that credential and match it to a photograph taken right there. You ever share information with local or state governments . Information to respect a fingerprint . Let me back up and ask this question, i have time to get it in. I would ask a couple questions, a touch of hesitancy so i want to followup, the data you collect, is it collected without subjects being aware . No, sir. The information you collect, do you share that with state or local . I would have to check with the lab director and get back to you. Are you familiar in the past. I am the secret service chief technology and i will call the technical side id have to get with a forensic service. Thank you for your time i yield back. In a classified setting, we dont ask that question again of the Data Collected that people dont know because i think there is information being collected in the pilot, at the white house that is different from the answer. But we will have a classified briefing on the issue. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from new york. Thank you mr. Chairman. Someone say when it comes to National Security lets not make the perfect of the good, but unfortunately the good is not good enough when its baked into the algorithm. Under that create false positive. The states are far too high for individuals to costly particularly for people of color and women. The deployment of facial Recognition Technology will help implication of privacy. We must look before we leave, its imperative that safeguards against mission tree and algorithms do not make their way into widespread use. As a new yorker, one who lives miles away from ground zero, National Security is crucially important and i know that firsthand. The facial Recognition Technology that identifies women of color that does not make her safer, and makes us less safe. Using this technology for deportation does not protect us from terrorism, it terrorizes hardworking families. We cbp uses the technology on u. S. Citizens traveling abroad would provide a transparent process that is unlawful. We see what happens when technology is widely deployed before sacred, lets not make the same mistake with facial Recognition Technology. We have a contractor that has a breach and we know we are seeing more used video and deep states if you will. That information gives them an adversary overseas and they want to create a disruption in our nation and take the information and create a video and were already into a really bad situation. I dont know if we look at the interconnectedness of all of these technologies particularly because theyre all evolving. I am very concerned about the lack out the states. My question is, cbp said the facial recognition algorithm uses and able to make a 98 or 90 of the time but that does not include instances where facial Recognition Technology is unable to capture highquality images due to human error, poor lighting or other environmental factors. The recent testing by the phs science director has shown when data captures are included it increases to around 10 . Do you dispute . No. [screams] okay and why did cbp insist on tracking a bogus districts that ignores passengers by the system to be matched be back what we are accounted for, if we take a photograph that does sufficient equality are we able to match. Then we know we need to address the camera and lighting conditions to make sure that we are capturing 100 of the photographs and we can then match, two separate statistics that are both valuable. What about the false positive, that individual that is detained for whatever reason because they have a false positive, the cause of that person while being in a commerce concern and well, im concerned about the lack of accuracy. Im very concerned. They present their passport as their doing today. [screams] excusing. If a person does not match a photograph they simply present their passport. But you match them and they dont match what happened. They present their boarding pass in their passport and is manually reviewed at the point. Two those people are not detained in any way or asked to step aside, the process is not delayed. No they show their passport. Okay i hope that is the case. Cbp has a meaningful statistic captures the usefulness and accuracy of the full facial recognition process including the rate in which the system fails to capture the quality image. [screams] we track the rates and we track the gallery completion rate, we will never have 100 , not Everybody Needs a passport to travel through. Including the images that fail to meet a standard. We want to build it so the camera will take a highquality photo. But even the statistic does not so we do. Crack. I yield back. The chair recognizes in a number. I want to clarify with the secret service, the information that you collected and talked about earlier, is my understanding that everybody in the secret service and then volunteered to be. [screams] that is correct. Let me explain how we do the pilot that would help. When did the pilot start. We published the pi a back in november and beginning december through august and we did on purpose, we wanted it to go in the winter to the summer because of the different items of people where so we have a good amount of time we were assessing. If i explain how the pilot works that might help. Participants of the planes are secret Service Employees who take part, the facial images are restored and an associated match is recognized on the individual and the volunteer. The conclusion of the pile in the information will be deleted. We are using current cctv system video match system and imagine you have a similar system on capitol hill that you use for surveillance, we are using those videos there and trying to match the individuals on the pilot and the volunteers to the people who we see in the cameras, if there is no match google record. If there is a match and there is a record. That will be retained until the end of the pilot and the information will be deleted after the conclusion of the pilot. Thinking. But her question was if you were collecting data. And you said no. [screams] my question is whether the volunteer or person walking on the street, you are collecting data. That is correct. The chernow recognizes the gentleman from louisiana. [screams] thank you, mr. Chairman, would you describe biotech and facial Recognition Technology is designed to work with trained agents working together, and witnesses working towards, as to whether that is an honor testing has verified the case of facial recognition in the best algorithms and the best human beings recognizes. I think its important in your testimony that we have researched and measure of accuracy and examiners including forensically trained facial reviewers, your statement stated that presented data from the state of the art facial recognition algorithms with the best human face identifiers, the best machine performed in the range and the bestperforming humans who were professional facial examiners but she went on to state the optimal phase identification was achieved on humans and machines collaborated. Is that an accurate assessment . That is correct. Let me ask is there ever an arrest made or denial to travel based solely on facial Recognition Technology . No. So facial Recognition Technology gets a hit, high probability based on algorithms that a particular traveler is a person of interest and then an agent looks into the documentation further and has personal interaction with the individual which it clears the individual for travel or prompts further deeper investigation. Is that correct. Yes that is correct. Just to clarify for america watching, this technology is used to enhance the efficiency and speed by which the trained agent move travelers through screening point is that correct. Yes. Thank you for clarifying that. As a general consensus amongst travelers and airlines that this technology is a good idea and working well. I believe so yes. Thank you for clarifying that. Let me jump into your data breach and concern for all of us regardless of what inside the aisle we are on. We reported that breach, was it discovered, how was it discovered is my first two questions about that. Who reported it, contractor or did you guys discover it. I believe we asked them about it. How much time went by . A significant amount of time, i need to verify but my recollection seems to be that we asked them if any of our data was included and they said yes. Not to put you on the spot my brother but im going to, when you say the amount of time was significant are you talking days, weeks, months. I have the answer, let me look and ill come back. We would like to know that because the contract was referred to up subsequently terminated and we would like very much to know what the course of events were regarding, what was the timeline here with this contractor from the time the breach happened to the time it was discovered and inquired about in reported and verified and how much time before the contract was terminated and i believe, i would like to know and my colleagues would like to know if the contractor is still on a contracting list . If that contractor was terminated with the contractor but are they still out there bidding on other contracts i would like to know that. You have a tremendous job to do, thank you for your service all of you. It is important to the members of this committee to get things right. Many ports of entry particularly land ports face challenges implementing the biometric system. Can you share, this is my final question, what are the primary challenges and how can we help. The primary challenge is finding a way to implement into a travel system that was not designed to support the collection of biometrics on only a segment of the traveling public. Unlike europe and asia and other places, we dont have departure controls you dont see a cbp officer get your passport stamped at the United States. We never restricted like that. They come and go with domestic flights in each individual flight you have u. S. Citizens, permanent residents and visitors. How do you sort differentiate between who is in scope or out of scope of the biometric requirement and what technology do used to collect that and how do you ensure way that will not create gridlock at the airports or seaports when we get to on how to do that. Thats exactly what youre working through right now. We found a way using a facial recognition already provided in a convenient accurate way that we can apply to all travelers using different authority and help the Airline Board the planes faster. Thank you for the answer my time has expired. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentlelady for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you gentlemen for your testimony. This is an important issue so we want to be safe and secure and also recognize that our privacy is our privacy and we have guarantees under the constitution and that were not in any way and cringing upon that. Mr. Wagoner id like to ask you a question. I understand the department has a final move to win be that would expand cbp collection of biometric data, something we have expressed tremendous interest in. The committee is eager to learn as much as possible of what you intend with this rule and why you have pursuit of transparent and deliberative process. What does this interim and final rule in teal, how does it address cbp to biometric data on u. S. Citizens and why did you choose this process than providing a notice and allowing public comment. There are several pieces of rulemaking underway. There is an interim final rule that is drafted in circulating for comments. There is also proposed rulemaking on other parts of what we would like to propose to do. We are evaluating all of those right now based on the comments we have received within the government and we may take a different approach prethere are regulations already concerning biometric exit. Those have been in place and we are utilizing today. Through the privacy Impact Assessment weve explained in great detail that would be in the regulation probably on how the program operates and what exactly happens. That is publicly available. Are you having conversation with people . Absolutely. Ive done meetings on the east coast and west coast with the privacy community and the privacy representatives and we are talking with oliver travel and tourism stakeholders, there is support behind this in the travel and tourism arena. And of course we are talking with the airlines and airports in our government partners as well. Why am i asking you this question of why the committee doesnt have the information it needs. If these discussions have been in the public round, why am i asking you about the process, what part of this process in this question of why youve chosen to do it in a more closed way as a more transparent way or it might miss understanding and misstating . What part of your consideration andrew rulemaking request, your request on this public sharing . Im not sure i understand the question. According to the information that i was given, the department has an interim report to omd. In this report has to do with expanding your collection of biometric data. You are not doing it on and what is the reason for that. So, you have a number of proposals, rulemaking proposals. Part of this the department has sent an interim final rule to the omb and this particular deals with the expansion of the collection environment of data. The understanding that i have been given is that the process thathat you are engaging in is a close process and we dont have the committee doesnt have the benefit of what is being considered and what you are asking for. Instead youve used another process that forecloses the opportunity so im asking why would you choose to do that, what is it that you cant share and which is completely its different portions of the rulemaking process and that is going to change based on the feedback and discussions. The to do that on the other rulemaking requests but not on this specific area. I think the point is at this point the public has no input in this process. We will do the notice of proposed rulemaking to solicit feedback. May i just have 30 seconds . Spinnaker just curious about the secret Service Project and i understand if you are using this now and volunteer service are you incidentally collecting other information among people whon people whoare not part of o what are you doing with those pictures that you capture clic clicks. It records from all the cameras around the complex we maintain that for 30 days as a part of the process. So, as we are going through and identifying the volunteers that are in there comes a record saves and will evaluate that until the end of the process. To review other faces youre capturing bette that are in the vicinity to words demonstrators. It would be like a false positive. We are concerned about what happens. We will have a classified briefing. Thank you for the extension of time. Recognizing the gentle lady from arizona. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I would like to field a few seconds. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record to articles, the support of Law Enforcement application of the Biometric Technology. First is from new York City Police commissioner james oneill and second is from the managing director of the group lead care. The gentle lady is recognized for additional time. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous consent to enter the records expressing support for the use of biometrics by tsa and the cbp. These letters are from airlines for america and the International Association and Global Business travel association. My first question is a Pilot Program that you have working with adults down in the atlanta, where do you get the photos of him is that opt in, did the database passports from cbp, that is my first question. Be used on matching service for that. It acts as the state Department Photos for the backend matching and then it is an opt in program. They have the opportunity to choose whether to present the use using facial capture or the credential and we see the high rate of people providing the facial image. Where do you ask them if they want their photo taken . There are signs throughout the checkpoint that say we are piloting the technology and should you choose not to participate, please let the officer know. As we approached the travel document position, theres an officer there and the officer will say do you choose to provide the identification in which case they are directed for the specific location for that capture. I think this technology is going to happen. I do agree with other members we need to make sure we have privacy and security, and of course are you going to use any of the is the tsa planning on looking at how they can work with cbp and that their success to implement it in more airports . Absolutely. But the reason we are doing the pilot in atlanta to understand the reaction between us and the cbp system and would benefit it brings to the identification verification process. Im glad you are working on it and hopefully we can get a fairly fast turnaround. It probably would be interesting to see what you are doing. Also, are you planning on using this or have you thought of using Biometric Technology for duty you for the airport employees . Yes maam. We are considering using the biometrics identification process for the employees as well. Thank you. The reason i ask that is in some of the briefings hearings i think weve been concerned about insider type threats. I think what happened in the washington airport, i cant remember where and employee took a plane in Seattle Washington and was the baggage handlers and that sort of thing. Thank you and i will yield back my time. I now recognize the gentle lady from texas for five minutes. Sunday july ninth asking the dhs secretary to the border conditions. Without objection and also to put into the record the inspector generals report at the others july 7 i ask unanimous consent. Without objection. Let me say to all of you and thank you for your service to the nation eye for the privilege of serving on the committee for a very, very long time. I will get to the underlining basis of this hearing but let me be very clear that i have to speak with great dismay for the behavior of individuals at the border into the refusal of the department of Homeland Security to cooperate with members of congress and i want to indicate the 4. 6 billion that was given last week and the whining that went on for a period of time to blame the congress is a misrepresentation to the American People, because we understand that the program of dollars can happen at the drop of a hat and the reason i say that is going through the questioning regarding the facial recognition, unless the answer changed from the time i was here understand theres no statutory legislation or anything in that authority. I just quickly want to say that we will not be able to tolerate. We respect you as servants of the nation. It is unfortunate very destructive policies of this administration has tainted very fine american servants of the people. And that is happened because when you dont have toothpaste and toothbrush you have a truckload of the material on the nonprofits like the conscience present by nick at the border station and also begging to be of help and you are telling the American People there is the one helping you, i think that if a sad commentary. I want to make sure you are aware of my dismay that we will not be tolerated and the mismanagement will not be tolerated and that the accusations against members will not be tolerated if the Vice President can go in and look at this cleanup, then the members that have oversight responsibilities should be able to go and look. I would appreciate if you would report back to the secretary. Let me say to the gentleman from transportation security administration, im interested in you looking into the treatment. We will give you that information around april 14 in the atlanta airport. Let me start with mr. Wagner. This is terrific of the information regarding the use of these and my earlier information was you know that people of color and women, so i did it twice, are unfortunately targeted the most. The article is as agents with the fbi have turned fake drivers license database recognitions into a gold mine scanning through hundreds of photos without their knowledge or consent. In addition, it says the state department of Motor Vehicle databases into the bedrock of the infrastructure. I want to submit and the chairman and article by amazon that says the recognition confused with known criminals. I went and the Congress Persons name name into the record, but i think most of us would like not to be known as known criminals. My question without objection. How are you doing this with the protections of due process without the notice of the American People fo that the pros even exists, what framework is there to have the firewalls that you are not turning Congress People into convicted criminals ask we are not seeing the same rates that can be attributed to the specific demographics and how they are dealing with this. It cannot be compared to previous studies. There are different control factors in place. There is different we are taking a person that is standing in front of a camera that can take a clear picture and we are comparing it against a clear set of baseline photos from their passports or visas where they are also standing still in front of a camera to capture a clear picture and thats where we have been accurate for each. The studies didnt take the same control factors into place. This is an taking an image of a person and randomly running it against the gallery said of indistinguishable quality photographs and lowering down what constitutes a match to make it match someone but its not. You can do the same thing with fingerprints. How do you secure the data . When a photo is taken of the airport, it is encrypted and transported into our cloud space. It is them in a template, which my understanding is that is that its turned into a mathematical formula. There is a unique identifier associated with it. There is none associated with that. It is matched up against the gallery of the photos. In that unique identifier. For the Frontline Service of protecting america. Thank you mr. Chairman for your indulgence. Same question as to how you utilize and protect the data the one thing that i would like to add is a technology is evolving so quickly and its improving so quickly we will continue to assess for any additional pilots when we consider the wide scale we will assess the best way to get quality image capture for the highest quality algorithm and metric. The chair recognizes mr. Green. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Think the Ranking Member and the as for appearing. My questions have to do with the surveillance, and my first question is are all people traversing areas within an airport under some degree of suspicion fax who would like to answer, please. I would say that when a person is traversing airports they are not necessarily under suspicion. They utilize for security reasons. With respect to tsa only reason we use cameras and capture the images is solely for the purpose of identification. If i could just add what we are doing is not a surveillance program. This is the picture of an individual taken with their complete knowledge because they are standing in front of a camera at a time and place they have to present the physical id in order to establish their identity to move forward if we are replacing the scrutiny of the id with the computer algorithm. Should i assume the person that entered the air force and that are not within the security area will not be subject to this technology . Modified tsa. It occurs in the backdrop of a trackpoint or time and place that you have to having identification to go through whatever process that is. The backdrop occurs outside of the building before you enter the building you drive up in your car, go over to an agent anand that personand a person te bag and gives you a ticket. Would i occur in this area . Right now the only place the backdrop is occurring is in the terminal in atlanta. I went down and observed schiff at the time is of the essence that we are talking about expanding. Heres my concern. Let me go to the point. One can only imagine what mr. J. Edgar hoover would have done with this technology. Key surveilled doctor king to send a letter to doctor king coaching him to take his life. I am not placing you under the eye of suspicion, but its my job to make sure that this kind of technology is not abused and i take my job very seriously because i am protecting you by doing my job. I wouldnt characterize it as a surveillance. To match it something along those lines. As a form of surveillance would you alert the public if you thought this was on the surveillance . Would you recommend if we were of the opinion what do you think we should do, should we indicate that person should be noticea person should benoticedg surveilled . We provided the notice before the image is captured. Its purely with the consent without the consent of the person that happens to be with the traveler who was just a friend clicks we captured the picture of the person consented. Only about 2 feet away you step right in front of it and it captures the image. My concern is suspicionless surveillance. Surveillance persons that are not under suspicion. Will there be any means by which persons engaged in litigation can acquire access to this intelligence that you have preserved for some amount of time manning the photographs comphotographs,would there be ay which persons engaged in litigation. They are in the passport photographs and images that are captured are not maintained in the camera in any respect. That does not answer the question because what im trying to get to is if there is a form of litigation and one can only imagine what that might be, whether they be able to acquire a photo to show that a person was at a given occasion to the location of a given occasion sex it is retained. Encrypted, transmitted for the return. Its deleted after 12 hours a. To service the biometric exit of their departure. Thank you. I greatly appreciate this and i want us to secure the ports of entry but im also concerned about the suspicionless surveillance. Thank you. You are recognized. Thank you for being here today. I know that at least three of our witnesses are here under the department of Homeland Security. Your website reads solid they have a Vital Mission to secure the nation from the threats we face. This requires a dedication of more than 240,000 employees and jobs that range from aviation and Border Security to Emergency Response from soccer and security analysts to chemical facility inspectors. Our goal is clear, keeping america safe. In addition to the agencies represented here today, Homeland Security includes Cybersecurity Infrastructure security agency, the unite United States does and immigration services, United States coast guard, customs enforcement, it includes fema as well as customs and Border Protection and the tsa. I believ believe that the agenci just spoke of if they were abolished, our country would be substantially less safe. The question i will begin with you is can you please tell me what impact they have Homeland Security and the agencies for which you serve if they were to abolish tax there would be no one to process people coming and going across the border. Either u. S. Citizens or borders. There would be no one to process the cargo to look for harmful goods or products coming in. Be no one to collect the taxes that are due on those duties. Cbp collects over 40 billion this year to the u. S. Treasury through the taxes and fees. There would be no one to do that. Would you agree with me that the enforcement capacities the department of Homeland Security polices run a gamut of different things. So we talked about everything from the secret service to provides protection from the dignitaries and air travel, postcards, border enforcement that those are very important functions of the government to make sure that these agencies are funded. Would you agree . They go back to 1789 in the very beginning of the country. Would you care to expand on that at all . I agree with what mr. Wagner said. If they went out there for the security Transportation System is absolutely air travel directly a degree of jeopardy. We also have criminal investigations. Be irresponsible to talk about abolishing these agencies that serve an important task on behalf of the American People . Yes. I would agree. No further questions. I will yield back. I know that i was late to the hearing today, i dont remember having mentioned they should be abolished for the record. The gentleman from kansas city. Thank you mr. Chairman. One of the most important figures that we dont know much about signed the declaration of independence and eventually became one of the members of the Supreme Court and said Congress Shall form the grand inquisition of the executive branch. I think that my childrens children and even their children will say thats when it got started. I am concerned i was in the executive branch. I know you are busy right now. A group of my colleagues and i found a letter and send it to you. I didnt know if this was part of the plan to ignore congress or if you just assumed nobody should expect you to write a personal letter. If you dont have enough staff, we need to know because until it completely collapses, we are supposed to provide oversight and im not trying to be hostile. Im not sure i can do a good job of being hostile. I appreciate your word and what you do, but i have to say that its frustrating to. And i hope that if im around at a time that my voice isnt important to say that im not going to support the responsiveness to congress that i get the opportunity to say it even if my dad is in the white house. Having said a similar comment by colleagues invite past because they thought it was important, i will aswould ask a couple of th. Time is running out. Is there any Statutory Authority that would allow the process of facial recognition or is that just an internal move, anybody . There are several pieces of the Statutory Authority to authorize us to run this program. There are several pieces of legislation requiring the biometricbased entry exit system for certain foreign nationals. Theres other statutes that authorize us to determine the identity and citizenship including u. S. Citizens. There has to be a way for us to make that determination that a person is a u. S. Citizen and the statutes that authorize us to consider evidence presented by the person to make that determination. And benefit us int the benefit e examining officer satisfaction the regulations that stipulate the person would be considered and inspected as an alien. Requiring the screen all aircraft fundamental to the process so that we positively identified him into the act mentions these for the purpose so that is the authority that we operate under. Last week i participated in a demonstration in front of the department of a number of other individuals with refusal to put a congressionally approved likeness on the dollar. That is a whole another issue. To say that we were somehow surveilled and put in the category of subjective interest, that is simply what takes place on the grounds of the white house. Should i expect that . We do have a video Surveillance System and there is one published in the department of Homeland Security learning. In addition to the cameras that we have come in many o, many ofr around pennsylvania avenue and building is adjacent to the white house. What about other federal departments . I cant speak to other what r federal part of it could have been stewed. Now we recognize the gentle lady from florida. Thank you to the witnesses tod today. I understand how tough the jobs are. I think all of the rituals have gotten tougher in recent years. Im not sure why my colleagues felt the need to talk about abolishing your agencies. As i know no one on this committee on either side of the aisle has ever proposed such an idea. We are the committee on Homeland Security, and we are here to make sure that you have the tools and resources to effectively do your jobs but i know that it gets a little tougher when sometimes you receive unjust orders that do not have the resources to effectively do your job. Earlier i heard one of my colleagues talk about the reason for the Biometric Technologies involving speed and efficiency. I was assigned to the Orlando International airport as a Police Commander on the worst day in aviation history on 9 11. I know that the number one responsibility for you is the safety of the traveling public. And if you can share that or increase those odds and do it out in efficient and faster way, then that is just icing on the cake. But what sets us apart as we work to keep the nation safe as we work in this country as we cais wecan enforce the law and n but also protect individual civil rights. That is what sets us apart, and i will not com, the perception n issue that we cannot ignore and we have to deal with. We are able to deploy new technologies that is a great and wonderful thing. I remember how exciting that was. But its our job on the committee and your job a as they headed towarthehead of the agene that we can do it all and i believe that in this nation we can. I know we have talked about it for a different thing that we possibly could and we do thank you. I just want to go back for just a minute to testing for accuracy and any biases. Can you tell me who sets the minimum standard for this particular program, who decides what testing is done for the accuracy before deploying the technology, how do you get that baseline and say that this technology, weve come to testing, weve spoken to the stakeholders, we are ready for prime time now. Understanding your going back and checking up, but who sets the original kind of standard before deployment . What is acceptable and unacceptable. Mr. Wagner, we will start with you. We determine the match versus non match to the photo and we would evaluate this with our dhs science and Technology Department and in consultation with experts from the industry and the vendors from this equipment. We have partnered starting from the summer into the fall we will be analyzing the data to make sure we are not seeing those rates that are attributed to a certain demographic we are not seeing it from the internal review but we want to make sure that we will bring the answers in. You are saying that it is a perception that theres an increased error rate among people of color or have we seen some data also not significant to show that . I think the studies that show these biases have different control factors than how we are using these and no one has really studied the way that we are implementing this using the same control factors on how we are doing it and i would expect them to get the similar results as to what we are seeing. For the perspective we work very closely with the science and Technology Directors as well. They informed the test plans and how w they collect data on biometric pilots and how well they are working so we do rely on them for their semiindependent and very, very accurate assessments of the capability. And like the cbp, we rely on our friends to set the standards and have all the algorithms actually working. So when you decide, if i could come u, when you decided e our ready for that deployment, based on the testing that we have done it is ready for prime time, so make that decision. Is that a collective effort between the different people that you worked with or did you decide that individually based on the feedback you received . V. Would decide that for our agency because it is our responsibilities and if i use a tool or algorithm to help make that decision, at the end of the date is still my judgment to do that, so we would evaluate this to say is it helpful to the officer making the determination that the document corresponds to the person . One thing i would add to the original point, for us the main reason to do this to increase the identification and be Security Enhancement is associated with. Getting people to the checkpoint more quickly is kind of the icing on the cake. Better security used in the technology is really the key to us. If the algorithms and the match of it are not acceptable and we are not enhancing security and we will not deploy it but the decision would be made with the tsa. Thank you, mr. Chair i will yield back. I will dispense with my questions based on the questioning from the members of congress, you can get a feeling on where we are concerned about issues around privacy and equality and making sure the American People in the traveling public is safe so we need to continue to evolve an into no Homeland Security has been an evolving and living and breathing entity and that continues to have to see and recognize and try to curtail them and rectify matters that are important to the American People. So, i would just like to say thank you for your service. Tsa cbp. George loves all of you all of you are doing a great job and we appreciate your service and i am here today. So, thank you. And with that, the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] the inquiries continue to speak on cspan. Tuesday the House Intelligence Committee will vote in a closeddoor session to send their findings on president trumpeted the house judiciary committee. Think back since the passing of our dear friend, first lady barbara bush. Shortly after, president bush followed his brid has died at 7s into the data beyond. Today i ask that we bow our head for the moment to reflect on the void left by the passing of these two iconic americans and how