Horsemen there is a book called the god delusion and sam harris and daniel and they call them the four horsemen that they are aggressive and they are a greedy. The 20th century was live and let live if you want to believe that is your business but now they say i dont believe that i want to make sure nobody else leaves either so its a crusade. Part of that plays off on the apocalyptic of the atheist but the last days of talk you of the latter day saints so for instance you have a catholic tradition where they make a lot of philosophical arguments and a whole range of things. That a protestant tradition focusing on the text Martin Luther at this the bible is the ultimate authority. So those that want to go back and look at text themselves and then eyewitnesses to jesus. There are some traditions that are being left out of the conversation for instance quakers or even congregations where we focus on direct experience with god and revelations i dont mean a man with a long white beard going down the mountain or a burning bush but something more direct every day. So if you say why do you believe in god to say that i read thomas aquinas. But to say i read the bible and the text wasnt that strong but you have moments of prayer or ritual or a major life event like the birth of a child clicks so now they tell you is these feelings dont count empirical experience count as knowledge then otherwise it is a legitimate so that in and of itself is not the empirical statement. If only empirical knowledge counts then it is self refuting. And say dont believe anything you read on the internet. And one of the philosophers of the 20th century put this out in an argument one of the great articles of the 20th century that you cannot do anything that is not data related. s of you believe only empirical knowledge counts that something you want to believe is the dogma. Or an atheist might say these feelings are having is your brain tricking you. And then over the course over millions of years your brain has evolved past survival so feeling there is a god is a survival value but now we have gone beyond that now we know better. That may have had use but now we can go beyond that and now we recognize this from the evolutionary trick that it is. So that we should believe those findings if it is a trick . If you want trick to explain every religious experience away then why is it tricking us with founding science . They also might say these feelings are empirical. When i say revelation to me there is a lot. Of being a conscious human being. In oc that in a microscope. But the fact you love your wife or children is not the empirical experience. So as i see it they are revelatory experiences, with freedom fest the idea that you have free will and a free conscious being that in and of itself is revelatory knowledge. Actually scientist i believe in free will. So the most important thing in life love and freedom in ultimate values and morality are not amenable to science so if you feel for your children if i put your brain under Imaging Technology your brain with light up with joy therefore that is empirical and scientific. My response is the vacuum tube fallacy if you take somebody in the seventies when Mister Rogers was on tv about somebody from the primitive part of the world who had never seen electricity before and show that Mister Rogers they may go to the back of the tv to look in their conclusion the vacuum tubes are causing the picture but this is a false assumption the broadcast is from thousands of miles away but thats the receptors thats the relationship between the brain and the mind it is a receptor also violating the atheist argument with physics one oh one it is not correlation and causation but they see the correlation that the brain state causes the mental state. So they need to retake statistics one oh one. So the first question you get from kids how did you get out because they assumed like the atheist that you are caused by your plate in the tv cause Mister Rogers. You are not your brain your mind is not your brain and the tv is not Mister Rogers the vacuum tubes or not the program make you spend time with darwin and the origin of species make you spend time with darwin and the origin of species Charles Darwin was one of the greatest of all time i am a big believer of evolution i dont talk about scientific facts but thats about as close as you can get was science ive no problem with evolution. Think it is a terrible thing when religious apologist tether themselves to opposing evolution. My god is great enough you can create however he wants if you do that with evolutionary process i have no problem with that. By looking at plants and atomic particles can look at the process by which he created but darwinism is a little more controversial than evolution but i think that is more establishment now its that mechanism of what evolution happens but that can count for all biological complexities is another question and some say it needs that hope they call themselves intelligent design scientist l cottam scientist but i do call them philosophers and to teach that as a possible in school but it shouldnt be in competition with darwin because once we jump out of science itself and that should be reserved for philosophy survey which have a class to say well talk about the theory of evolution but is there a case to be made for intelligent design to be made . I wouldnt have a problem with that but setting that up of evolution or intelligent design thats a huge intellectual and strategic mistake brings up the charges of anti intellectual. And now i think its very interesting and may or may not be persuasive but with the battle of darwinism or design. Host is darwinism or evolution or is manned naturally moral. It is a moral thats how i would have put it. He said my principle is survival of the fittest. One of the great philosophers in history have been arguing for preservation that happens at the gene level so these genes try to replicate themselves. Therefore the selfish gene is your natural state but i dont think thats true because we have cooperative genes. Because we both cooperate and we are selfish. So look at the characteristics human beings have capacity for love and hate and selfishness and selflessness kindness and cruelty. The inclination to destroy and create. These are all natural and you can find evidence to explain how these traits came about so to say we get the morals from evolution because everything we do comes from evolution. Article he is an atheist. We can derive from the is the way it is the way we actually behave and we can conclude that is how we should behave. So it is the case that we strive and survive and flourish so the answer to that it is the case those that we murder and rape and kill we should do those things is preposterous so evolution is a moral. We dont have to introduce morality from outside the internet on the Natural World thats the main argument for god i have a chapter my book called the delusion that there is a delusion of god. You can make the same argument because feelings dont count you cant believe in god because of feelings that just through moral intuition if i can have that the why cant i have a tuition about the creator of the one universe . But they will not answer that. Host you talk about the max planck in your book. By and a practicing christian a very hardcore religious leader. I cant believe anybody believed it there is a war between science and religion. A look at every great scientist throughout history with the theory of evolution , at einstein and isaac newton. Copernicus and mendel. Every single one of them there is no more. The only time a war comes up is that people step outside of their boundaries and religious people trying to make scientific statements turning into a biology lesson. Or if you have scientists making religious claims so they talk about the empirical scientist are not capable to say anything but religion on the other hand is not generally preserved so using that as an example that there is a war between science and religion. So that along came science it is just preposterous. They just dont know their history. So why is it either or cracks in them to be trumpeted about. One of them is are you left or right clicks neither and both. There is plenty of overlap. People say theres a binary if its a capitalism or help the poor. In the most wellbeing in the most capitalist. Do you believe in science or religion cracks in the history shows most dont know this that america has gone more religious all the great historians of religion have science has increased religion has increased along with it. Now over the past 20 years this is just a brief moment in history one reason is i think 9 11 did something they thought islamic terrorists that religion causes violence so a lot of people abide into their arguments and said yes religion by violence and it is bad. And this should go better with science but its very unscientific when it comes to religion. To but to say democrats are bad because 81 bed democrat smoking doesnt kill people and my grandfather lived to be 90. Thats ridiculous. So when it comes to the value of religion it is entirely on anecdotal evidence we look at this pedophile. What they never want to do is explain the Scientific Evidence because every time you have actual scientist at the pool controlling for other variable variables, the religious score higher on every version of morality showing that religious people live long and are actually more educated believe it or not or that they adopt more children and theres a higher social capital. So to go down the list but we try to promote with democrats and republicans and you will find the religious believers really it is a salt of the earth making Society Better. And it is immoral by their own criteria. That something immoral but that religion does that make Society Better and reduces crime and reduces depression with the economic wellbeing and economics try to destroy that. Now i like skeptic magazine debunking of the ufos and all of that going after religion he does something that is immoral. Stalin is a great example if you want to go anecdotal there is one we can go to. Prior to the 20th century we had atheists all the time when they want to tell their stories they want to go to the middle ages. They want to talk about religious wars and the salem witch hunts look at all the bad things religious people were doing clearly this is bad that doesnt even rise to the level of anecdotal evidence. So for racist setback people are inherently more violent than white people but then you start with your 1500 in africa through all the of the oppression. There is no control group its a silly thing to do all the terrible things religious leaders were doing for quite a cad is doing that now. We dont have a control group. And there are specifically open atheist regimes that will actually say something. And once you do that if you want to compare the atheist violence the issues went in a landslide the biggest man on homicide was mao who was also an alias on atheist paul potts. Per capita. And then they did so in the name so the idea that the atheist will lose that also. But if you want to look at some eli chairman mao look at somebody tries to wiggle their way out really cracks because stalin and mao believed the marxist ideology but trying to have it both ways that atheism is not a religion so then you say you are right that the issues have faith youre wrong atheism is not a faith it is a non belief in god. Is not a religion. Thats a religion. So atheism itself is not a religion but if he says stalin wasnt really an atheist then you just said stalin did believe in god. Hes dating is. Pot. Hes an atheist. All of them were atheist by their very definition so if you want to look at the consequences of religious belief the wickedness done by the atheist is overwhelming not saying everyone in the doctor is a good guy. Is probably compassionate and they can be good people but were just talking about history. Throughout your book there is a god that you address the lds church what is that and are you a member cracks. Yes i appreciate you use the word lds people are not trying to use the term roman that people applied it as an epithet that the book of mormon itself says in the church of jesus christ not the church of a profit by calling the charge of a profit it is the wrong thing. So now we call it the Mormon Church so it is slightly insulting with a religious precept so why at this moment is it pushing us cracks because we live in a moment in real history with too much a soundbite too much in love with the short soundbite and instead of rushing things out we would see it all the time in cable news leftwing rightwing fascist instead of what you leave in the Church Giving answers so i will explai explain. The church of jesus christ of latterday saints. What does that mean cracks its the truth of what jesus taught that Thomas Jefferson and Roger Williams and others of defenders of religious freedom has championed. So my book was written for the not the apologetic side but the more religious traditions and lds is primarily in that but i think the profit because those arguments are not exclusive. Where do you teach and how did you get interested. An extension of Brigham Young university. Its just south of yellowstone of trying to keep it small i shouldnt say this. Its a small town. I have had visiting privileges and i just love it there. By digression i didnt mean to be such a major part of a study of an intellectual and during graduate school you are reading the atheist because of the conversation. You are reading those critical thinkers the atheist for the big guns. So as i reading and discussing there was an itch i had to scratch. Is like you have these demons in your head you have to get rid of it was true i could not move on until i wrote things down so i would have these ideas other recitation of what i thought were the bad arguments of atheism i write them down and keep a file and eventually is that i wonder if i can organize this into something bigger so that i started to put things around so i did the polishing and the rewriting of the process. Had a friend who published it for me there it is. So what i teach at Brigham Young idaho us history civics film history asian history in the past in a Smaller Department to get a wider variety of topics so this is a side thing for me i dont teach religious matters but it was important enough to me i thought it can be helpful for other people. What about apologetic term. It sounds worse than it is it sounds like you are apologizing for something today means so sorry as if you are apologizing for your faith. It just means defense of the faith apologetic christianity people that speak out in favor of christianity, religion, belief of god is and are so many attacks on religion we need solid apologetic answers because they are not very good at that and then standing up to them but the part of my book i am proud of it is a little bit hostile that is intentional as a christian that something i need to work on is not very christlike but almost like an intellectual bully my faith is bonkers he is a bully he is rude and arrogant sometimes i respond in kind is not right to do but maybe my readers cant forgive a little bit and understand i respond with a strong tone because the atheist are so aggressive and rude that i stand up to the bullies even if intellectuals. Teethree is the author of the book there is a god. Thank you for your time. The book is about a set of horrible formal online they are Message Boards where people have congregated ten or 15 or 20 years and have only gotten more and more unhappy to now they are there they are angry so two of the last shootings the one in california it also new zealand christchurch those are shootings coming off one of these websites and also a lot of them had become fascist and deep lead disenchanted with their existence that they had decided they wanted to destroy civilization instead of rebuilding in a fascist way two r serious readers. Serious readers. [inaudible conversations] bulk of everybody we as the entire staff are so happy to have you all here it is such an honor to host this event i am the owner of the mahaska bookshop we are so happy to be in a community that supports our local businesses as well as our local nonprofit and this is special