Its the Eric Metaxas Show although today not only Eric Metaxas Show but also cspans booktv. Why . First of all, why not . Secondly, because my guest today on the Eric Metaxas Show is David Horowitz. Weve had them on this program before but he has a new book out called mortality and faith reflections on a journey through time. Wouldnt it be nice if cspans booktv would let me interview him for the purposes and guess what, they did and here he is. Welcome to new york city. Are you not from new york . Originally in the 50s, 60 years ago. Thats originally. You have a new book out, so my books. A lot of people think of you mostly as a political conservative, but in your book radical son where you talk about your life story, you reveal a side of his that i as read would say, i would call a good writer. You would not just something with great ideas but you write will. In this book im probably not the first one to call it a lead geac. It has a beautiful tone to it, ruminations on mortality and faith. Thats the title. When you decided to write this book, let me ask you the simplest question. Why did you decide to write this book . A lot of people if the richer book radical son maybe would assume thats your story. That was a story of my political transformation as it were from a leftist, somebody who described himself as a revolutionary, too conservative. At what point did you stop describe yourself as a marxist revolutionary, what you roughly . Roughly 1974 when a woman that id recruited to keep the books for the black Panther Party was murdered by the panthers, and that really was the end of my career in the left when i realized i was among gangsters and people who supported gangsters. What really hit it was none of my, oh my friends blamed bettys death on the white power structure which is with what they do today, only they blame it on trump and his white supremacy. A lot of people dont member that time but the violence of those years, if you dont mind before we get into the new book mortality and faith which picks up your story, for those who are not familiar with your story and with your seminal book radical son i guess i want to ask you if you dont mind, reprice the story to give us a running start. I was raised by communist, cardcarrying speeders hang on. Literally cardcarrying speeders literally. The whole community and wanted stalling to win the cold war and create where would you race and what was the community. I was raised in sunnyside. I grew up in sunnyside. In queens right over here . Yes. Most people ever think of sunnyside or queens, the Upper West Side of manhattan, has, but sunnyside queens. It was colonized by the communist party. I looked into development of row houses that Eleanor Roosevelt wrote the ground there. They were built like english row houses. The backyards had a commons. The interesting thing was when the 40 year easement was lifted on the comments, everybody extended their backyards into the center, which shows human possessiveness and instincts, which is what the left is always fighting which is why the indepth with the gulags and the firing squads. You literally were raised among cardcarrying communist over routing for stalin. How so . Thats a fascinating idea. Its one thing to be leftist, one thing to be a democrat. You are talking about something a little different. What was this group and who were your parents that you find yourself in this situation . When you get into that, people have a need first of all, this book is not a political book and its not theres politics in it but its not at a philosophical level. This might be the best book ive written. People who have read it certainly feel in the writing and so forth. The writing is very, very beautiful. I have read of this book all the way through. Thats a joke. I have read parts of this book all the way through. But what ive read, it is very beautiful, so youre right, nt a political book butcher store just begins the mortality or we are thrown this world and people have great need to think of their lives as meaningful. The idea that we are all going to disappear someday and be forgotten is very hard for people to take, so they develop various kinds of face, in their faith because you cant know that god exists. You can know through the i mean, i called pascal in this book uses you can know through the heart, faith, but you cant know with your intellect. Nobody can prove that god exists and nobody can prove that he doesnt exist, or she. Since im interviewing you i will let it go speeders youre a man of religious faith and understand that but this is my perspective. Right. The people develop a faith. They can be socialism, one can of faith, or communism, social justice is another. Or you can have a faith in the divinity. The way i i described it in his book, to believe in the divinity who will sort things out after were dead on the other side, for now we see stargell as the new testament says and then only face to face. That to me is a healthy faith. But if you dont believe in a divinity, you cant, or most people cant face the meaninglessness of our life. It doesnt dust in the wind, this song from kansas. For those people, to get meaning in their life they get what i call a crypto religious faith, which is progressivism, leftism, social justice in. And that is the world is going to be made into a kingdom of heaven on earth really. I always how do you live without and eschaton. Is ever to look for the same thing . In other words, even misguided radical commons, leftists, i would say their misguided but if were all looking for the same thing but we disagree on how to get there, with the nature of that thing is, what the nature of reality is but it does seem to be people who may be believe life as a mini but they cant stand the idea so you want to create meaning speedy and the meeting is created by you create the world. You act as god and you have a Green New Deal, you will rearrange everything. The only way to do that is through a Totalitarian Police state and then you cant do it anyway. You just shoot a lot of people like the soviet union taught us in the last century. Id want to give the idea that this book is a book of ideas because theres a lot of narrative in it, a lot of my life lessons we go through life, you deal with death. I had a daughter who had a birth defect that caused her to die in her 40s, and i take lessons from these. I try to deal, you know, with the infirmities of age as you know, science, people dont talk about this too much, but people are living like ten20 is longer than ever did because of science. But they do that because you have part of you removed by surgeons and so forth. I have done some of that in the book, and at each point i try to give whatever wisdom i have from my life expensed. When you say she do some of them in the book. You to some of what in the book . A lot of it. Well, i talked about i have prostate cancer, one that metastasized so ive had serious reengineering of my body. Is that your original had . Thats my original had. Everything else is negotiable, but the head at least so far, okay. Were going to go to a break because its the Eric Metaxas Show, but were going to continue talking for as long as you stay, David Horowitz. Its an honor to have you. The new book is mortality and faith reflections on a journey through time. Stick around. [inaudible conversations] im talking to David Horowitz about us brandnew book mortality and faith reflections on a journey through time. Ask you before we go farther. How many books roughly have written . You have written a few books. Probably 20 that are worth reading. That are worth reading. I dont know what that means. I wrote quite if you as a leftist. Its funny to me to think that you really were a radical committed leftist until 1974. So this wasnt, you were not playing at this. You were very seriously involved in this. Its really the origins of the vision in this book, that to make our lives meaningful we live inside stories that we tell ourselves, and these stories very. They can be, youre going to create a dynasty as one. They are all designed to give you hope, or you will become a famous athlete and be in the hall of fame like in a thousand years. Thats my story. It can happen. But i live inside this story that i got for my parents, from my community that were going to change the world. My whole life was oriented around changing the world. Through communist revolution. Yes. In america. Yes. Thats what its supposed to do, and it ends racism, classes and sexism, homophobia, xenophobia. We will all be one big family. Thats the vision of progressive. United by by this belief in the earthly retention. And if you dont believe in that . And if you dont believe in that and you get in the way, well, you know what happens. The progressives killed 100 Million People in the 20th century during peacetime. So the progressives worldview that youre describing is at odds with the american worldview that we would call freedom or liberty . Thats the big problem. Thats another story but thats the key problem. Its like, again, look at the Green New Deal. They want to pay people who dont want to work. What is that . Thats an incentive to be lazy and live off of the people. The other people will resent that sooner rather than later. Those people they become problems. You identify them as racist and so forth, what if you want to call them. People disagree people who dont want to work are marginalized. The article press. Its ridiculous. But theres elegant and billions of people who believe in it. I would say can or 15 of the 20 democrat candidates for the nomination also believe it. Let me ask you because when you talk about we live inside stories, we create stories we give our lives meaning and hope. Theres a a couple of and the allusion thats going to go on forever. So easy to forget that youre going to die. Its really very easy. Its a normal human denial. This book really, i mean, i talk a lot about these stories. For example, theres a lot of illiterate Julian Barnes who wrote a number of i guess postmodern novels, i cant think of the one that he wrote the most famous one but what about him . He wrote a book called nothing to be afraid of, which is what, when he was a little kid and he was afraid of death. His friend said its nothing to be afraid of. In this whole book its about in the fact hes a writer, a famous writer, probably millions have read his book but he figures in a generation or two there will be nobody reading his books. Not only are people reading it, im sure most people remember it but it was quite a big book at the time but so he sort of is right about that, isnt he, that reading his book he called scratching on the walls of the prison, which is life, and this is a band who doesnt have a religious faith. Religious faith is a great consolation, and thats what people are so passionately committed to ideas that have been proven to be incredibly destructive, like social justice and socialism and communism. Because its such a consolation for the meaning nest in our lives. You believe life is meaningless . Im an agnostic which is what i think im good witness on all these issues. But when you say that come when we were talking about communist radicalism, when you say that its at odds with reality, right, is that which is . With human nature. When you say it is at odd with human nature, it seems youre saying the american view of selfgovernment and liberty com, what i would say is more conservative is not at odds with human nature, greg . Yes. Or give me but when they come back i want ask you about that because we will talk about the pelagius hersey. Coming up on cspans booktv. Dont go away. Its the Eric Metaxas Show. Where, due on cspans booktv talked with the author and thinker, David Horowitz, his new book is mortality and faith reflections on a journey through time. In this book, david, were talked with the meaning of life. You were talking about the meaning of life and what will talk but a a moment ago, this a that you are saying that your previous view, the communist view, utopian us to view it at odds with human nature. That led to the murder of my friend into the murder of 100 Million People in the 20th century, and with that, that story that i live inside was shattered. Thats how i i came to all thee views, to look at it you only see a piece of people who are saving the planet and they get meaning out of that, but you dont look outside that. You live inside it. Why . Because it gives your life meaning, and if youre not saving the planet for the planet cant be saved, which is probably even more likely, it shatters your personal piece. It takes away your consolation. You have to have seen that event in 1974 in in a way as a severe mercy. In other words, its as though it took something that horrible to wake you up to the idea that i was clinically depressed i would say for seven years. Seven years . Yes. At what point did you shift . It wasnt an overnight shift. How to get out of that . Actually thats the subject of radical son. You put one foot in front of the other. You get involved. I had a writing partner, and for some reason, well, hes a catholic so he had a faith and so he would get interested in stories that we get together when we were journalists. I have no interest in what i would follow him, and because i had to support my children. I did that and you put one foot in front of the other and after a while it turns out you get inside another story. So at what the story now i guess is im going to save this country. I think this country is threatened by people who dont understand the founding. They dont understand where our freedoms come from. They have contempt will for the people who created our freedoms based on misreadings of history. But i understand this this is y and it could be meaningless. They could be meaningless but your banking on the fact that its not. Its being on the right side of history. History has no right side. Its not moving anywhere. Why do you say that . Well, its a classical view. In this book i talk about marcus and the romans and greeks. The greeks. They saw history as cyclical. Didnt everybody see history as cyclical until you get to the western christian biblical thats why the christians get it. I happen to do. A lot of christians actually worship at you. You might not realize that. Its a fact but i guess the question is that once the bible enters history and creates, at least in part, although what we call the west and leads to what we have today in america, its at odds with the idea that history has the right side or that history is not going anywhere, does it not . Its what reagan said. We are a generation away from losing all our freedoms. We have to fight for it in every generation. If the islamists win, then theres no reason they shouldnt, they have cleverly infiltrated our societies. They have a barbaric view of the world. They are jew haters. They are christian haters. If they win went back to the dark ages and its all gone. No, everything is fragile in that sense. Not as fragile, i do want to be an extremist on that as i think america is a lot of resilience by one to get to the collegiate heresy i can play just at that. I was going to say lets get back to the collegian heresy. Is the fundamental divide. The judeochristian view is contained in genesis, the first chapters of genesis. Adam and eve were given a paradise thats much better than the Green New Deal or socialism or communism. You didnt die, the fruit fell from the street but those one condition, and that has to remain in the garden and you do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In other words, you didnt want to do evil. And adam and eve the five god defied god and eight of the tree. Human beings enjoyed doing evil. Human beings, all we have inside us, we have free will, thats the basic judeochristian idea, that god could easily compel belief. Jesus could have risen off the cross. He could come back today, and do miracles, but god gave us free will which is the freedom to do evil as well as good. And that human corruption is the problem, the source of social problems, all social problems, is not society which are is no such thing. Its just a collection of who we are as individuals. Us. We have these bad tendencies that we fight all the time and we have created, well, religion is one more relevant. You were saying this is inherent so you are agreeing with the biblical view. Yes, i definitely do. But the question the people on the left are followers of pelagius. Pelagius was a monk and pelagius believed that sin is against human nature, that human nature, and led to itself, is good. According to pelagius. According to pelagius. So to commit the sin is to go against your nature. So he believed if people were good christians, all they have to do is want to be good and just the kingdom of heaven. I hate to cut someone off in the middle of discussing the pelagius heresy but we will be right back. Its the Eric Metaxas Show. David horowitz can you were just talking about the pelagius heresy, socalled, so continue, please. If you understand the source of our problems is us, is the corruption inside every human being, you can see it in infants, if you put two twoyearold in the room with a lot of toys and play them for five minutes, you will hear screams coming from the room. Once you understand that, then you understand people in government are more dangerous and people who are not in government because they have more power. They are the same people who caused the problem, and we see this all about this today, the corruption is just epidemic. In our government. And even worse, who i call the social redeemers. People who think they can redeem the world. You do, we are to save the planet. Through politics. Environmental radicals talking about putting people in prison if they dont believe in Global Warming and stuff like that. And when the legislators who were behind the Green New Deal, you asked them how theyre going to do it, they say well, world war ii globalization. So we will live under a military regime, great. In their defense they say this is as much an existential threat as the nazis. Of course they want it to be an exit such a threat so they can get as much power as they want, and you know, you wind up with a totalitarian state. How are you going to compensate 267 million gas guzzling cars in tinges if you dont institute a military dictatorship . This is what people, thats what makes you conservative. Its your view of human nature. People on the left think that people are born good and Society Makes the evil. Corporations make them evil. The patriarchy makes them evil, and so forth. Dick cheney. Dick cheney is behind it all. We dont have time to go into it but just trust me. Hes in a bunker beneath the earth. We are just his puppets. So this idea is something that obviously you disagree with what i want to go back, in the 70s you have shouted experience of somebody that you knew was murdered by the black panthers. How long did it take before you realized i was with the wrong story with the wrong narrative . It was almost instantaneous. First of all, because my closest friends, when i told them the panthers had murdered betty, they said it was the white power structure. You know, we have this today where actually time he dan coats is a a big icon of the left on Race Relations says theres no such thing as like on black crime, its white people heart behind it. Crazy stuff but an awful lot of intelligent people its fascinating because youre talking about when this book mortality and faith its about stories. With reality, will only get into that. Were talking David Horowitz, mortality and faith it is the new book journey through time, good show. Folks, im talking to the author of a brandnew book mortality and faith, our friend david horwitz. Attorney through time. A lot of people that i admire and appraise the spoke like crazy. Dennis writer, who says that he has never been who moved by davids writing as by this profound book, norman durance and others, raving about it. Have stated your writing in this book is particular fine. I want to ask you regarding our talk earlier about your contention in which i say i agree with that we have to grab onto stories or narratives. And you are talking about when this woman was murdered in 1974, a lot of people couldnt get out of a narrative. They rather than, see maybe missed something, they would see no you have missed something. She was murdered by the white power structure by the power structure. The man did it. It was kind of like being brainwashed. But at some. It seems to me they were talking about taking your thinking and putting your thinking in line with what you are calling reality and human nature. Using the people who are stuck on these other narratives, are wheeling to do that. See that it is very difficult. I described, i see two volumes in my auto biography, when i am in the bookstore. After this happened. Its a bookstore. All of these books, and i see science fiction, there into this there into that. The whole world which i are completely outside of my world, the key to it all. Theres probably 10000 books in bookstore. My books for the apartments. [laughter] when i realized it was just another story and is completely false one, as it turned out the room went black, it was like being in a desert, completely flat with no landscape. I realize i was nothing thats it terrifying. You were in berkeley and bookstore. I saw a false set of ideas. Millions of people, these were really bad and stupid and unproven ideas. [inaudible conversation] what you are suggesting. I had to face my mortality and that was who difficult. Its is it too much and you talk about that new book mortality and faith but it seems to me that you are suggesting that you are going along who a ride and at some. You woke up and you realize that you were going the wrong direction and lying. And may be written ten books at that time. I devoted my life, is 35 years old. I devoted my life to this false idea. It was very destructive one and evil. Evil ideas. In this i know that people like obama, the first thing i wanted to do was scream it out. I read other people. Against falling into this trap. And the people the obama news and the gerunds in the david x rights, there still communist. They were all brought up that way and never detach themselves from it. I probably turned off half of the audience who this book. I just want to go back, is there a grand narrative, as an agnostic, your suggesting that there might be but you dont know that there is a grand narrative that actually not only happens to be correct but is true on a deeper loophole. And you said you its been the last decade working with another narrative but not entirely convinced that its true you just say that it might be true. Giving the book in our region the passage. I write about mozart. The was an incredible miracle. All this music, and the time he was six. And then he wrote a letter. This 31st year. Thirtyone years old. Your letter to his father. He said his death is the real purpose of our life, who several years i become closely appointed as true and best friend who life. Who the image has brought only no longer terrifying to me but rather something very soothing and comforting. And i say my weve god who putting me in his face. Giving me opportunity realizing that he is the key to our real happiness. Sooner emitting weve god. Death is the door to weve god. Anna wrote this, this is me. It is a generous thought in a reckless soul. I wish the faith of this great and gifted young man, he was ted did four years later after this letter by the way. I wish it were mine as well. I wish i could place my trust in the hands of a creator. I wish i could look in my life and the lives of my children and all i have loved and see them as probably to a better world. But try as i might, cannot. I cannot ponder the pointlessness of our striving from this earth and to ask impossible questions and see receive no answers. Yes it is a religious faith. It is very comforting and to be marxist. Its very important. Its very comforting. To be an environmental radical saving the planet. But this has brought faith. Soon if you are staying its a false faith. These are strikes me that according to what you said. Science is very limited. Science is amazing thing. We double it everything and scientist have no idea how the universe began and they have no idea how i can. How to get these minerals animal life. Animal spirit can i give you a hint. You dont. Our knowledge is limited. Theres a lot in the book about other writers. And there was a character in one of them staying we have three dimensional minds but we live in a four dimensional universe. This is same thing as seen through the glass jar. This wisdom in my view. That is the first humility is to understand the limits of our knowledge. It is interesting when adam and eve were in the garden, and the first chapters of genesis, they were seduced into wanting to know evil. By the serpent and what did the serpent see if you eat of that tree you shall be of weve god. And that, i say there are gods and then they can rearrange the world and solve the World Problems and do it in ten years. If they have enough power and they can compel you to do with they wanted the leftists. And that arrogance is what is causing the death of the hundred Million People in the 20th century. You identify key narratives. These political figures like cortez, there is no hesitation she is answers to everything. Shes a bartender. No humility. Its interesting people in the left to block people who pray. But it humbles you thats the first thing that progress. It has the powers and mysteries beyond you that you can never get a hold of it they have to be given answers. You are not going to find them. News interesting essay all the thing because many ways you talk like oh man of faith. And you dont sound like someone was nihilist. You accept the idea that life is meaningless and that everything involved in memorial suit by accident we all got here by accident read and then you can hardly fault anyone who doing anything. Why should they or shouldnt they do anything because there is no truth are now quite wrong. Were going to come back with David Horowitz, the new book mortality and faith. I the folks, talking to David Horowitz. Martelli and faith of reflection through journey in time. Were just talking about this idea that you see is unable to latch onto an narrative. In symbols like they are inside a dream and the dont want to wake up from the dream. You woke up in the dream but that seems to imply that there is such a thing as a world outside of the dreamworld which is to see a realworld that is human nature and a reality and you behave that way you get uncomfortable we do pointed out dont you david. I say maybe this is the legacy who my communist era. I was brought up believing i was that went out a soul. Who its uncomfortable who me to look that way. I lived my whole life. Soon aquino thats called. Meaningful acts. I try to be as good of a person as i can. But of course but why. That is cheap dodge. You realize that, i would argue here that you dont believe what you just said. You are basically, you dont know the answered zero saint well i say its because but the fact is that you to all thoughtful a few months are is it too much today can dedicate your life to pointing out lies. If you dont believe theres truth. You are absolutely right. But it been burned at church. I get it. I see all churches as human institutions. In unwary. All right, thats fair. My intellect. Its is it too much sunday the church of wariness. [inaudible conversation] you are writing the awareness humility trying. And i want to see or see. But just to what is word, i dont want you to get to conceptual but what i am staying is that isnt that there is no way out of that loop is i guess what im turning to see that we do see, no i figured out i was is it too radical and i was is it too short who myself and now im going to be more humble and less sure no and no matter what you do your surfing something. Researching the idea of humility and you are asserting the idea of stacked that work against this narrative and you are doing what you are doing more gingerly you are asserting the very idea of doing things respectfully and humbly and gingerly as opposed to the idea that were going to grab an idea and write it to the well. As, i do. That is a little is it too generous who me. I agree with everything you said except ive devoted my life defining the evil that i was born into which is progressivism. I have written over 20 had books, i have a series of nine volumes called the black book of the american left. And who i fight that battle with conviction because i lived it. And i want to prevent other people like me who are as radical today going through the misery that i did that i went through. This limited though i am comfortable with limiting this position of agnosticism and i dont say i would be comfortable embracing of faith because of religious faith and in divinity and tempting as it is. Has brought funny, weve god is devilishly tempting you. Is the comfort thing. Have you talking about something bigger than religion, you are talking about truth. And it strikes me that you are still trying to figure out what who what is truth, and it seems to me that your causing the idea that a humble attitude toward knowing is part of truth. Student will say it was the way you approach it. Its the way you begin the search who truth. I was always uncomfortable with astronomy when i was young man. Astronomy. You mean astronomy. Why were you accountable with it. Because the universe is who unfathomable. This theory is the see scientists, despite all of their advances, they done on the most basic questions. That is prevalent to the religious view and yeah, weve god created the universe and weve god created life. But there is also, the door to this kind of im going to be wary. Is interesting though, statement i am engaged in my story which is my battle with this delusion. The human beings, rather than divinity can reduce the world pretty see that as the most destructive ideology in human history. And that is the ideology of progressivism. And that is a big enough battle who me. Okay i get it. But it still means that you believe there are battles were fighting because you fought hard who you just fight slightly earlier than you might have in your previous incarnation but i want to back to the book mortality and faith. You tell a lot of stories in this book and it is really volume two that you set up your autobiography, first the radical son at what he pick up your story in this book and what year. Is published in 1997. And another one a little earlier. They were the spoke began. It began after 911. It is interesting. We want to pause on an interesting note. We will be right back talking with david hart of liz about motility and faith. Suited who talking to David Horowitz about martelli and faith david, you are just telling us that it was around 911. 2001 okay. In 911, the america was insulated from a lot of the evils in the war in particular. The civil war. We just felt very safe in america. And none of them in. And you know knowing that the availability of nuclear weapons, it would cause you to say about final things. And then i was diagnosed right after 911 with a prostate cancer. Who that fred at home today figured i should write about what worked who me and times. I was interested in it. Over these feelings as they grew older. And the things that have happened to me. Things like describe throughout the book at various illnesses. Losses. And particularly daughter i thought it would be, i didnt know and attract me to write about that. That is because a lot of people to say i am dying all the time. Soon a hard week. Soon fully hard. Thats the way the book begins my phone telling me we begin to die the day we are born which is the little bit pessimistic. It is really the day we are conceived. But to be even more pessimistic. It is Interest Income is one thing to say about our own mortality. I say we can be flippant about the meaning of life and death when we are thinking about ourselves but we say about loved ones, you mentioned your daughter dying young. We do love someone in the die particular when the die young. That to me, sometimes much more strongly against the meaninglessness of life and the prospect of her own death. Did you find that and losing a daughter. My daughter was observant. She believed in the lower of the soul. Which in reincarnation but in a reincarnation of the spirit. Her spirit is inside me. I wrote a book about her. Its called the cracking of the heart. In which id deal with this. I say you are absolutely right about that. It is horrifying. And i write about it here. My life ins and a winter which i can never recover. And look that way. Like i see, i am not only satisfied with the books i write with this one in particular because there is a lot of wisdom in it and consolation who people and my father was liked, i put his tombstone but it was known on his tombstone, life is the struggle. Sue if you got something straight beneath. The german word who struggle kind of took a hit when hitler wrote and it really hard to speak about original germany. Theres something about love we do talk about your book about your daughter dying. The cracking of the heart. There is something that if you are looking to the clues of the meaning of life this seems to me they have some clues there. That there is something about love and attachment to someone that says, it doesnt seem possible that life could be meaningless. Theres a whole passage about one morning my wife and i, my wife and i had been looking at the laptop. Pitcher of my daughter. After she died. She came to me and said lets go to a, is like a jewish place in california. I was sitting at the table and there was a play, a stiff paper plate. It lifted off of the table it hit me in the stomach. It was completely inexpressible. And my wife was sure that is my daughter communicating to us. I offered as an example and again, we make did it strike you as miraculous. You were there, and it was at least extremely strange. Spirit that is currently bit. I didnt, you see that but i dont believe you who a minute. You dont believe it was juice you dont believe it was nothing. Just because we hold things lightly and just because we are not cocksure radicals doesnt mean that we cant believe things and it seems to me that though you are unwilling to see who that there are certain beliefs that arent Worth Holding onto. In this might be Worth Holding onto. Soon ive been fascinating shows there is one the seatbelt psyche. And theres a guy drives people places. And they just begin to scab and of course you never know whats going on behind the camera. [laughter] but he does things, that uncanny, about these people about their loved ones. The died. And i just say i take an agnostic view of that. Im not in all prepared to dismiss it. Even though there are psychics who are fakers. Same thing with my daughter. I wish that were true. As i write in the book. I wish this was a communication from a daughter. When somebody dies, it leaves all the conversations unfinished. You say of all of the things that you shouldve said, but i leave it who what it is. Were going to go to another break. Well be right back David Horowitz. Talking to David Horowitz with mortality faith. Your big fan. Diabetes. Meetings. No queen. Queen fan. And more, he is the little leftist. And they all are. Sorry always get them except fred still then, and more and i cant say of his name. Anyway, nevermind. Its had a funny, you have chosen to settle in california and youve been there all these years. As somebody who has become an archconservative politically, you are not in a place where most people sure your worldview and people in the media, tend to be radically on the left side of things. Give me theories to why that is. No arid model to california 1969 when i was still a leftist. A california has brought a serious place. Its not like new york. I was in new york, id be in a room that went out being assaulted terribly. Who what you believe. Ive often thought of that. California, on the other hand is easy to avoid. Im actually now, i cant go on campus because of the leftist decided to shut down consumerism at berkeley. Not only of them been purged from their faculties, but you cant let them in the door to give a lecture. Is very dangerous, people like you in a college campus. I cant go there that went out a bodyguard. The administration is who supportive of these campus fascists. They just turn my speech into a circus. They do all kinds of strange things. To obstructed. But i find very easy in california, they are interested in their bodies and their careers. [laughter] unless you are in San Francisco. In the bay area. When i voted who reagan, that was the year i moved there to move down to the San Francisco bay area. Everybody always talks about the relationship spread [laughter] select all my gosh, it is funny to say of you leaving on the west coast with abuse you have. With this book mortality faith, you make it sound, or it hasnt an elegiac tone. Do you see this as like a final statement. You are not exactly in your deathbed arid. I actually am inspired to people that have some idea that im dying. A few years ago [laughter] i wrote that way. The end of the book is about a dear friend, the creator of the philadelphia flyers. A very wealthy man. A generous man. He had cancer at the same time i did but he opted not to do the surgery. But he was wonderful spirit. In this life. You know when he died, people come out of the word works. And they tell the things that they did that he did for them. See kind of lose let me begin. Only hear the rest of the story that were going to have to end this hour. Do any of the rest of us, got to us on youtube, if you want to watch this on a tv program. It will continue the story that is this hour. David thank you. Hey folks, perhaps cspan2 tv. I dont know, all i know is im sitting here having a wonderful conversation with David Horowitz. New book is mortality and faith reflections of a journey through time. David what is the book that we talk about before this book. You are here a few months ago. Auntie my story about insider. This is the man who created the philadelphia flyers. Many other things as well. Around sports. Always of course. The spectrum of sports shows. When i was suffering from cancer, his major operation. He comforted my wife. And then he insisted that i would have nurses roundtheclock which he paid who. I was very reluctant to accept such a gift but i knew this guy and i didnt want to hurt his feelings. Who ticket. It was a great help to me. Then when he died, he was in incredible pain. An innocent tells the story. He was at wells fargo at the memorial. His last words, where excruciating. Anna put his near to his father. I want to say the players who what they did who my family. See im getting emotional. I felt ashamed by this guy. Because i wanted to be a person like that. But i didnt have this quite that standard. All the flyers loved him. It was like a father to them. I went to a lot of the games with him. Even though i been watching flyers games who all of these years, he was like a 12 yearold at his first game. He got very upset with things it did not go well. It knew would, ed snyder, philadelphia. Is interesting again, we are sort of looking who what is true which seems to be what you are doing doing in iraq mortality and faith. Its hard to say about it carefully. It strikes me that we do encounter someone like your friend ed, you know that there is something there. In other words this is the clue as to what is true as to what is meaningful in other words, he seems to me, life like that seems to me as further evidence that is not possible that life is meaningless. At that we just exist and then we go out, and then there is nothing. Because a life like his somehow argues against that. I obviously respect that view. Is interesting to me that sets how u. S. Respond. As though there is something great but again as somebody who is really cynical and scientistic and strict. But i am staying that if someone were, listening only reason that you respond that way is because evolution inadvertently programmed you to, people who. [inaudible conversation] then make an argument who that. It is meaningless but you are somehow evolution has favored those who have genes, predisposed to thinking that life has meaning. But it doesnt mean that life does have meaning. Who that is that to say about. Such a presumption. Why dont agree with that but it is interesting. But im not that person. This is probably a legacy. That to me seems a little cynical. But we wont let it go. The idea of believing has brought a bad idea for the question is what do you believe in. They didnt know. But passionate people. My father was a rich man. Communism made him strong. Personally. And his father was strong. But as political faith, made him powerful. He was very articulate. Staff wanted to do who a leaving. He was cited statement is the high school teacher. Tina was up before your ideas pretty. Know he never understood it. I love the first pope that i wrote together with rockefeller, and with the the front page of the sunday times. Johan part that is. My father was who disciplined, about the economic crisis. [laughter] he said to me, you and read about the rockefellers. This morning. [laughter] thats pretty good. On talk to about the major reality. If we are back what is right and power corrupt, absolutely as a political conservative, one of us we would see that yes, because human nature has brought good we need to have checks and balances on power and that anytime power, accrues, it is a bad thing who we do what we can structurally to work towards a guess that predeceased me that that one thing the founders did not plan who, was the kind of power we have today in corporations like google and something has or havent social media, google. Google has to be regulated. His public conversation. The technology is there, a know we cant have a national debt. Dennis prager had in todays wall street journal, this probably wont air today but where he talks with this. Prager knew, has been seriously censored. By google and tremendously effective. The leftists organized. Anything mccarthy ever did. His greatest danger to american democracy right now. And that is of course facebook and google and twitter. But it is also, that change in the media matters and the whole left is organized to suppress and destroy and un person conservativism. The Progressive Left his communist left. And is no relation to a democratic left. I give democratic socialism is an oxymoron. Its ridiculous. You cant take private sector and give all powers to government and make it a democracy. In the fact that people say this is frightening. Who all of the dishonesty that hell live warren has done she is the stupid woman. She has not learned a single thing in the atrocities of the 20th century. It is scary. What i was going to see earlier about about google and social media coming up to things going on. Small yet the heads of those hugely powerful corporations not only being radically leftists but wheeling to use their power. Not democrats. If you have any respect who american pluralism. You know when i was elected, the left has gotten worse and worse since the 60s. When i was elected in the 60s, i always wanted to hear what our opponents were seeing. He thought it was that it would me a better reticle. In one here and now they just wanted destroy them. To me thats the first part of it in the second part of it, the one thing that i say the founders cannot really foresee. It is the idea of social media. There is something, putting hillside the biases of the heads of google and other powerful organizations amazon etc. , putting that hillside, theres something in the nature of social media that it is a kind of cruel or aggregation that works like a mob. In other words you can by having the electric college you can working as at structurally during elections but in terms of the culture generally, social media seems to behave like a mob in the way that you do with Electoral College or just to have. To go your computer every day and vote you say everybody should do print clearly the founders try to create something that would work against that because as a kind of different way to do it. They distrusted the people. And they were very brilliant, and they put sovereignty in the hands of the people. Because you dont want one person. On the other hand eight introduced all the skepticism. You need the checks and balances pretty. We ended on an exciting note. Dont huawei. Folks we are talking with David Hurwitz on the new book mortality and faith. Some of you are watching this on cspan book tv. You watch the whole interview on the show on youtube or wherever you can find my name. Which i say that social media and speaking of which, youtube and google in the aggregation of power. One talk about the bigger issue. Were just talking about the checks and balances. If the founders didnt percy social media, what is there in our constitution that can help us work against what we see. Public utilities. Im using the internet. Im not a lawyer. Strict but the first part of the problem. And more dennis, romac. Is google censoring people we need to make them Public Utilities but what about the larger issue that we are now having National Conversations who theres like a different consciousness as a result of social media and the internet but it didnt exist 20 years ago. Something has or havent via twitter and who forth where things move differently. The ideas move quicker. One of the biggest problems, Tech Companies are only part of the problem. In his infancy and the news media is who corrupt that there you have people staying things that are absolutely false. And clearly politically organize and attack the put republicans and trump. You dont say that the freemark is helping us see that. In other words because of the existence of alternative media outlets. Is less and less helpful. All of these stupid statements. But it was all over on nbc and simeon cn and number 2501 Mass Shootings this year. Already in america. I said to myself, that is observed. And not just on the face of it but when i went to google, i figured it was on the second page the article which it said in its extreme anti gun stores, and the new hunk of the criteria of the mass shooting. Come on. Host august the bigger issue is that something is happening in the culture that is far from the bias. David the news media. Is that we dont have any liable laws. Host cannot happen as a possible. David if you are public figure as i am, you can see anything, is in an opinion protected by the first amendment. Just the new york calling trump racist, protected by the first amendment. Was it should be pliable. Even though it is the present. Host why did we cease that. David i dont remember the year, but the supreme courts decision in the New York Times versus solomon. They mayday standard for the sanderson liable standards, but in this country that you cant be pliable. You have to show it now. It sounds like you are a racist is the factual statement but it is in fact an opinion. But we do have, one media which is semi free which is fox. People see fox is the instrumental fox of relevancy. Not to mention, who Chris Wallace and others on fox. The problem with democracy is well, its the problem that it is now. Theres gonna be some institutions that have set a standard of some sort. It didnt always used to be this way. This is about ten or 15 years that its been this way. Host by assuming the your believer in the premarket and free market of ideas. David not in a religious way. I dont want to mess with private companies, and that is an ideology. Im a practical person. I see the threat from google and facebook and twitter. I am sensitive to all that. I cant put up anything like white book book clippers and twitter. They instituted some kind of algorithm that will allow it. He will speak. Host thats despicable. David the southern probably lost and Michelle Obama news lawyer is running it. These are come on. Host there are people out there, and slowly some people are waking up to this. Its taking a long long time but i agree with you that it is rapid. David i voted who reagan and 84. I felt like of full crying in the wilderness who 30 years. Period people very nicely in the right but they were calling these people who were vindictive, liberals, speech of heng on way to go to another break. Were talking to David Horowitz. Hello folks, talking to david berlitz talking about his book telling faith. I was a falling euphrates say its limit more quickly than that and you said that reagan. You say people waking up now with inequity finally in america. David and equity. Inequity. And equity and inequity. It started with obama, to begin to see how people how radical they are. The conservatives were uncomfortable with my talking about the malice of the left. The left is really malicious. They say nothing nothing of destroying people. And lying. I am at the top of is one of the ten top people in america. All based on lies. Ive written three books on race issue. Even a teenager could read them can see that theyre all based on Martin Luther king. The way should judge people. Spee. Host this gets back to the meaning of life. Seems to me that your suggesting the people on the hard left dont have trend since that value not really say that lying to get and power is wrong. To justify the ends. Host right. The one i know the difference. Host that suggests that one worldview would see a more conservative traditionalists believes in transcendent values and the other view which is culturally markets does not. And the other one says there is no meaning. There is only power. David is true but its also true that people in the right understand that human beings lie. We have to fight that is the natural tendency people do it all the time and do it in everyday life. Social situations we get out of it and change but we have to fight it and went to understand it and google wrote a book where ally is the beautiful evil. Host say we would get in the martin you brought it up. You going to get to martin and you going to get to Julian Barnes, one of their literally figures you touch upon. The one is the passage. I cant remember the name of the story but a short story about his mother dying of cancer. David i dont know if its a true story but he has this adventure with a sexually mature with a woman. Host is kind of a misadventure. David and misadventure. He talks about thinking life is the turntable. And that went out moving it in any direction of course, when he gets back and it is an embarrassing and humility doing one. These prostitute steels is closed. Host a classic story. David he realizes that something is in the closet. And he realizes he was on the turntable. We dont see them well. We are always progressing towards the end. Host because of these trips interest cycle of course of mortality. David incredibly poignant and moving figure. And wonderful theological. Wonderful theological writings. Because he stood on plight. He actually in his book, which has been collected, the thoughts of pascal. It is about this issue of faith. It cant know. He did also have this kind of fire. Host i read about that very recently. Can you talk about that. Ive never seen that until very recently. David he has a lot of very interesting insights. In a night where he felt he was visited by the weve god of abraham and isaac a giant big jacob. And in a kind of all over the place with this. But is it talks about the human weve god. That weve god and this is about free will. And it is nothing the leftist and progressives dont understand that the fundamental judeochristian belief is said that weve god gave us free will to do evil as well is good. Where is left is, we are prisoners of racism and sexism and homophobia is him and we dont choose what we do. Host is the fatalism. We do see leftism, the recent generation of left that teach fatalistic. David they just transferred, monologue capitalists exploiting workers. Stealing from them basically. He is operating with the theory of value. It was already discredited in his life. Race gender and sexual orientation. Same are present, its about people who have marginalized it. If you put a ring through nose and you claim to be well, then of course you are going to be a marginal figure. Who the people marginalize you. You not going to change the attitudes of 6 billion people. That is ridiculous. Host are going to be what you can do it as a firing squad as an alternative and people see oh yeah you are right. Host we just have a few minutes of print dont huawei. David horowitz is my guest. The book is mortality and faith reflections on a journey through time. In the previous book, we have copier. Dark agenda. The war to destroy christian america. We will be right back. And folks, talking to David Horowitz. Mortality in faith, in the previous book dark agenda. Mission america. David who somebody who holds truth and meaning lightly. You nonetheless, hold them and you seem to be a warrior who what you believe is true who lisa warrior against what you know to be full. And i say as with my friend it dennis prager, was a jewish, you are much better defender of what we call you know, christian values and christian thinking and the many christians are. What is most that is. David i mistaken the answered. If you are a believer and you believe that jesus christ as our savior, then you are defending that and there is a lot of things that are prior argument. I have a clear view of the way this country was created. Leftist claim to enjoy but we all enjoy it. Christian ideas they are all christian ideas. The values were christians and the settlers, 98 percent of the settlers were protestant christians. Now protestant christian ideas. I must understand them and where they come from. Its not know we get your freedoms tonight. Therefore you can find it. Who i began with what and it occurred to me that you cant have life and liberty in the pursuit of happyness and there is no weve god. Because notice given by the likes of celebrant or hell live warren. The take them away from you. In the first day that you look crosslegged at them. Are crosswise at them. Who you gotta come to terms with these facts that that went out a judeochristian, you have the world. And dont know america and that means all of the good things in america. His freedoms in particular. There are various ways to do that and discuss them in the book. Talk agenda. But to me its a pragmatic approach and i say thats why. Host is at least pragmatic. And its translating a correct two but were not going to get into that. I wrote a book a biography about Martin Luther and both of those books i thought for the first time, how it is in fact the bible interpreted correctly that gives us the freedoms that we celebrate and hopefully defend in america. Havent seen them before. We just got a minute im gonna ask you really, a shallow russian. Of the current candidates on the democratic side, who or which wanted to do you say might end up being our or their nominee. David i am appalled. I am appalled that we have that they took them off of the row. Host is my theory, though continued to devour each other. Theyre going kind of like the jackals will go after, the others. And they will all be bloodied and bloodied and i say the mandarins of people like Michael Moore are already talking that none of these people can win who but heres my theory is that when everybody is plenty in the water and no one can beat trump, out of the weeds like an old bat, to save america will come Hillary Clinton and she will pretend to be dragged to be the nominee and she will be the nominee thats my theory we are at a time. Who i can need tending to respond. Alright david it is such a pleasure to have you. Thank you who much. David thank you who much who having me. Tonight booktv and 93, journalist joe simon and jeff mason discussed a warning. It was in the donald Trump Presidency from an anonymous source. President trump is the one who is the ultimate decider. And course at the job of any president but he really fall is his own instincts on everything from Foreign Policy which weve seen recently to the marketing that the joe was just talking about and he is his own secretary he is his own mutations director. He is his own National Security advisor. Sue my People Congress have given their powers and authority to the other end of pennsylvania avenue fairly steadily over the past few decades. When we cannot complain anonymously as you said, was to do something about it. It is to do something about a priest to watch what tv every weekend on cspan. Welcome back to miami and our second day of live coverage of miami book fair. Todays author programs include discussions on memoirs and the environment and the National Security. Plus youll get the chance to talk to the authors from our set here on the campus of miami college. Later today will be joined by david marinus, talking about his familys connection to the red scare of the 1950s. And elinor randolph, discussing the life and career of former new york city mayor and potential president ial candidate michael bloomberg. Those are just a couple of the programs youll see today. You can check your Program Guide or visit our website booktv. Org who a full schedule. And joining harris is the author of this book information wars. We lost the global battle against this information and what we can do about it. Information about the u. S. To the world track is yes. In olden days during the cold war we used to say telling americas story to the world. And how did you do