The astonishing life of okavango which won the naacp image award and abwhich won the National Press award for media criticism. Pamelas articles and views are regularly published in major media including the washington post, New York Times, guardian, nation add chronicle of higher education. Lets face it, she knows what shes talking about. In her latest release diversity incorporated the failed promise of a billiondollar business is an exploration of how Workplace Diversity initiatives have turned into a profoundly misguided industry stop and have done little to actually bring equality to americas Major Industries and institutions. The book also highlights the rare Success Stories sharing valuable lessons about how other industries can match those games. And showing if we are to deliver on the promise of true equality we can it abandon an effective costly measures and do it takes to challenge racial attitudes. On the back of the book Pamela Newkirk has written the farreaching and crisply read a book ive been reading to be. Chief diversity statements please join me in welcoming Pamela Newkirk and joan walsh. [applause] its amazed it adds to the tension. Thank you, hello. Mine is on. Hi everybody. Im very happy to be here. I love pamela. And her work. I was very attracted to the title and the idea of the book diversity incorporated because i think we all know that we are spending many billions of dollars to put a bandaid on a ahis name is donald trump. [laughter] its more than that. But the book is more than that. The book really goes into how all kinds of institutions are dealing with this. Even when they are not bringing on consultants and doing these kinds of ineffectual things. For better and worse. Lets just start with the industry. How do we have an industry that is so expensive and yet so ineffectual. Its like the american way. We have throw money at everything. For some people spending a lot of money means youre doing something. In the case of diversity initiatives the question that i started out with is why do you keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. We been doing the same thing for 50 years and counting the needle is barely moving. Numbers are astounding, i didnt realize how bad the numbers were until i started doing research for this book. I write a lot about journalism. I knew those numbers are bad but going across fields whether we are talking about the arts or Law Partnership or aba percentage of black males ceos. Is less than two percent. Academia. Im a tenured professor but but among four percent in the country. And that includes historically black colleges and universities. If you look at the billions of dollars being expended without any accountability we constructed this elaborate apparatus of diversity. We have it down we do the task we have the taskforces and redo the climate surveys and higher the consultants and mind you a lot of this only happens after theres an embarrassing episode. You talk about prada and gucci and you name it. Starbucks nfl add. They know who to call in. Theres an industry out there. They treated as one person who does this for a living there treated like fire extinguishers. There there to put out a fire and then pretty much forgot about. You got a lot of numbers in this book and im a complete nerd. I dont want to bore you with them but one of the numbers that blew me away about this industry, first of all, its a totally unregulated industry. There is really no standards. There is no like this is how you get certified. But one of the things that blew me away was 35 percent of diversity professionals have no access to the Demographic Data of their companies so how do you do diversity . How do you say you want to be more diverse we want to elevate people who are underrepresented. If you dont even know. You cant even see where the problems are. Thats exhibit a. That maybe these companies are not as serious about diversity as rhetoric and the expenditures would suggest. Another number, google spent 114 million. Every year they spend that now on diversity. You are looking at 2014 and three percent of the workforce is black and in tack its like two percent. They are doing well what are they not getting . You got some Success Stories we should talk about that. Yes we should. Not many. I think its the good news in this book because a lot of times journalists, we are writers and we are good at analyzing problems. But we are usually not as good at finding solutions to those problems. I was happy to see that they are actually effective models and if institutions were really serious about this if you want to go beyond having symbolic diversity and to do the work. One of the companies or the Major Company that i looked at was cocacola. Part of the settlement was that they established a task force and the task force oversaw everything that was doing around diversity. They hired someone who was actually serious about the job and he got into the metrics of it so he examined numbers like throughout the country. Who was being hired, what kind of jobs. How much are people making of the same rank. What kind of patterns of biased could be detected and then disrupted in real time. They did this over five years and they dramatically changed the numbers and the culture of cocacola. It does illuminate how one might go its one way that one might go about actually transforming a workplace instead of throwing money at it. Its interesting to me because it came about because of lawsuits obviously. A lot of pressure. Also its an atlantabased company. Its like the cradle of the Civil Rights Movement. And you have a lot of Great Schools there. There should be a pipeline. Highly trained African American professionals coming out of all the schools. There was never an excuse. What a lot of companies have continued to say when they are called out on this, is the pipeline. The pipeline. If that was true in the 1960s i will give you that. In 2019, thats no longer true. If you only looked at ivy leagues, which you shouldnt. But if you only looked at ivy leagues you be able to move the needle and a lot of workplaces if you were serious about doing this work. One of my formative experiences in the late 90s late 80s early 90s was that i worked for a black lead nonprofit in oakland. There was this incredible pipeline of africanamerican talent. Every job had multiple people who needed it. Every once in a while they hired a decent white person like me. I dont know how or why. But seriously. Thats how it happened. I was like oh my god i worked for all these white organizations that relate and we just dont know where to find anybody edit so hard and a its treated like rocket science. Its treated like, i just dont have that post doc and diversity rate. Right. Its like how . You have to be kidding me. Like in journalism. We are journalists. We are trained to do research. We can find where qualified journalists are. My entire career in journalism out of four newsrooms i was the only africanamerican in three of them. They couldnt find us. Its like really . I can find us. Its exhausting. You dont write like its exhausting. You write with a lot of passion. Realism but also optimism. Direct with optimism . I think its more realism. I guess the little bit of optimism that you may have detected, i dont really see as optimism. Lets be real. It can be done. It can be done. But im not optimistic about is White America ability to see past the fiction of africanamericans of latin next people. The centuries old demeaning images of people and how that has as much to do with the lack of diversity. Absolutely. The Education System what is on museum walls whats in a literature. We are in a toxic culture where people of color are concerned so in a lot of ways these diversity initiatives its like putting lipstick on a pig. Its like you are trying to address something without really addressing the cancer of the culture. As you said, its a bandaid on a gunshot wound, on a cancer that we have not even begun to really really deal with. I know ive been on the faculty at nyu for going on 26 years, i have not seen curricular changes the way that one would expect. In the 1960s thats what all of those College Protests were about. The lack of curricular that addresses the history of race in the country that presented a more realistic take of america so that White America could understand. Its complicity and the continuing inequality and the continuing racial injustice. And until that happens, thats why im optimistic that it can be done. Unless i am less optimistic about whether there is the will to do it. And the other amazing part of this book that is a little bit separate from the industry is really about these three fields. Academia, journalism and entertainment and what came across to me so strongly that i emailed her at like 11 00 p. M. A few nights ago. Its like these are the fields that are representing the world. I thought about the me too movement when we saw in the last couple years was the men who were being accused, some of the men, a lot of the men were in journalism, they were political journalists, telling the story of Hillary Clinton in 2016. Charlie rose. Matt lauer. Mark oppen. Harvey weinstein actually gave money to Hillary Clinton so it doesnt follow but these men are telling us our stories. The same is true in much worse people of color because academia journalism and entertainment has just pushed this narrative. The narrative, right. Much of my work, as you know because you know me, is concerned with trails. I think portrayals you can draw a Straight Line from these demeaning portrayals to trayvon martin. To the Police Pulling over someone and then they end up dead. Innocent people, last week someone in their home. People in their homes. People in their homes. People think of it like, its just a show its just a movie is just a book. Its like, no. It has reallife consequences for a whole race of people. All of my work somehow kind of confronts the implications of media portrayals, portrayals in literature. Because they have reallife devastating consequences for people of color. We paid attention the last few years but i think we should pay more attention to how the slave trade built major universities. Especially the ivy league but not just the ivy league. There is starting to be more attention paid and thats great but when you think about it, its just like i dont mean to sound like a nacve white person but the more i think about it, its like that is part of whats going on and you also have all these academics going back into the 19th and 20th early 20th amandas early. These people in bedded in academia who were just about the peddling of White Supremacy and scholarships. Then they will look at a book like this or look at scholars of color who want to look at that path and connect the dots. Its like are you kidding me . It has everything to do with it. When have we disrupted even the narratives . When have University President s gone before their student faculty body and said, we have been complicit for centuries. The way we have told the story of america the way we have told the story of africanamericans the way we have told the story of native americans. Was doing that . Almost no one. It has to start Everyone Wants this simple solution to this problem. There is no quick fix. Its what cyrus murray said they all want driveby diversity. They want Something Like really quick. I did an interview early today on bloomberg and its like maybe five minutes and its like, quick tell us. Its like how do we do it just write it down. Its not that simple. The American Experience is multilayered, complicated and people want to look at someone like me and say you made it, which a problem . My problem is that i know that many other people who look like me dont get the opportunity. But people much brighter, People Better writers better scholars, who didnt get to have the kind of opportunity that ive had. It hasnt ended. People thought, post race remember. Remember. We were just post race. Like until 2. 5 years ago. For every achievement we want to celebrate and we want to stick the flag in the ground and say, victory, we won the Civil Rights Movement is over. We elected barack obama its over. Its like no, we had reconstruction, then we had the ku klux klan and the black codes. We have the Civil Rights Movement and then reagan and all the backlash to that. We have been in these cycles forever. Is it two steps forward one step back or one step forward two steps back, i go back and forth. On my bad days. How much do you feel like electing barack obama brought Us Donald Trump . I feel very strongly that we are living in a backlash to barack obama just as we did the backlash to reconstruction. Seeing those black governors and senators and congressmen, people work having it. Thats where you had the epidemic of lynchings and black codes. Now we are living through something similar to that again. Its america. It is america but we keep working on it. The beauty of america is the ideal. E pluribus unum, out of many one. We have that, we have the words. Just like we have diversity, we have the words but its living up to it where we always struggled. The optimism is that people continue to struggle. Even some of us who dont think in the end we will see the kind of equality that was articulated by people like reverend Martin Luther king. Will we get there as a country . But i do know many of us will continue to fight. On a front where things, i should ask you, have they gotten better. It feels like in your book and from your experience, entertainment has gotten better. As you know im working on this project about 1968 and this week that Harry Belafonte hosted the midnight show and is like this revolution and he had all this amazing black talent including diane carol who just passed away and bringing together this amazing, really selfconsciously i want the world to see black talents. Also doctor king and bobby kennedy. We been here before. Right. There is always the temptation when we see progress to imagine that progress is like this linear thing that its going to continue to progress without vigilance we will roll right back as weve done with every other step weve taken. In the 60s after president johnson commissioned the kerner report and he spoke to White America is complicity and exclusion of africanamericans from practically every field and then suddenly the doors opened and you had shows like julia, diane carol, the cosby show, we had a flood of films then in 2015 we had oscar awe had two years in a row where none of the acting nominees were of color. What im saying is, this past year one of the biggest films with black panther. You would think that would mean black films make money. They do. And every study shows the more diverse a film cast, the more money it makes. We are nerds, we are journalists. But its incredible but the problem is, this is the problem, we still lived in a rigidly segregated society rigidly segregated. I live in new york, you live in new york. I go to many journalism events, publishing events, arts events, and the only africanamerican or one of few. Book parties. I have a lot of white friends where im the only African American in their universe. What happens is, the social world are replicated in the workplace. Who do you hire who do you recommend we do your friends know. Who gets the good letters. Who gets many of us are not in those circles. This is not ku klux klan over racism that im writing about. Not at all. Some of that exists of course. More and more obviously. But thats not what im writing about. Im writing about the ebb and flow of the way we live in this society. Segregated churches, segregated schools segregated social fears and then we are surprised we have segregated workplaces. In the higher up the chain you go the more wider it is. There are so many patterns in American Life that would need to shift for diversity to truly flower. Short of that, there are strategies that can work. If for instance in journalism where they cant seem to find any people of color even in new york city, i dont even get it. Another number. Stunning. 21 sportswriters at the New York Times, there are no black sportswriters. Right. How can that be. I was trying to be optimistic. We will work on that. [laughter] these social spheres have like so short of that, maybe that will change and im not asking anyone to be my friend. I have plenty of friends. Im not asking a she does, i can never go see her. [laughter] , speaking abi dont think theres a black person saying, white person please be my friend. So that maybe you will think about me when theres a job. Thats not what im suggesting. Im just saying that this is just a natural way that people get jobs and we are kind of shut out of that so short of that changing and that may never change, you can still go outside of your circle. There are professional organizations. There are all kind of networks, particularly in journalism, that you should be able to tap into to find talent. Somehow we are just not able to do it. Its kind of crazy to me. It is crazy. I guess what i was asking about in hollywood is did abthat was 2015 i think and then the boycott in 2016 do you think that helped. The next two years. I think it helped for a few years. Yes. You did. But if you look behind the camera, that hasnt changed. When you look at the directors, the executives who greenlight films, the studio heads, the producers, the writers, 7. 8 percent of writers of the top 200 films last year were of color. Of color. 7. 8 percent. That hasnt changed. And that needs to change if we really want to move the needle because again the same cycle of who are you hiring what networks are you tapping into is just a vicious cycle. Is about pulling in talent thats entertaining talent but not the people who write the stories or greenlight the stories. That sort of the barrier. One of the barriers. There are quite a few barriers. One of the revelations in doing this book when you look at the purportedly Progressive Field the most Progressive Field, hollywood, journalism, the arts, architecture they are the least diverse fields and most diverse is corporate america. One of the least diverse. What we find in the field that are least diverse is they dont use basic business principles. Theres a lot of nepotism. There are factors that contribute to the lack of diversity in the field you would think would be the most diverse. Supposedly the most progressive. The more that that is perpetuated, the worst situation we are in. I think a lot of people, because they are progressive, they feel like ive got this. Right, i care. You dont need me. [laughter] yeah. We can open it up for questions unless you have more. No i mean, i have many more but yet. We can open up for questions, please keep them brief. I know less about the industries youre discussing tonight, journalism, entertainment and so on but i do know a lot michelle was the president of the new york urban league. She headed the minority Minority Development center which is a 50yearold organization to bring minority businesses to do business with fortune 500 companies. I posted something on your facebook because im so glad youre talking about it. Theres a complication that you havent touched on tonight. This make resnick on the corporate side. Diversity is mostly black and white, which is emotionally fraught it most difficult. Im talking all people. But in corporate america, not what has happened, its a catchall for everybody whos not a straight white male. But even that, there was one, i think apple for the diversity officer said even a blueeyed white man can be diverse. Thats correct because they are trying to get economic diversity, Regional Diversity it becomes you say lets have metrics, theyll have numbers but the numbers are so bushed and dispersed over a large area. Thats why i focused on this area because its not like thats mutually exclusive that race we have lgbtq rights, all kinds of disabilities. We have everything that is compounded by raised. All that gets eclipsed by broadening the term to mean emergent. I dont know about journalism or entertainment but i can tell you in corporate america, it is a show game. 80 or more context going out to corporations every year are still going to like companies. Everybody else, that percentage hasnt moved over several years. Over 15 years, fortune 500 ceos, the percentage of whites dropped from 85 to i think 82point something because white women, people of color, the numbers didnt really change that much so no, youre right. Thats why i am throwing down on racial diversity because its been overshadowed by this overtaxed term. Its part of a problem. Thank you. Are there any other questions . Or solutions. [laughter] thank you. Nice to see you. Its a great book, by the way. One issue i see is that diversity, like some other Corporate Initiative is really silo away from the centers and corporations. If you have a law firm and all partners are thinking about it, but diversity is people of color, it has nothing to do with me. Thats just where it goes. As part of the problem, its marginalized in the Corporate Structure and most institutional structures. Then you have this situation where most of the diversity is of color and often times are the diversity. Then you marginalize it. Its not helpful. Any other questions . Im not sure my thinking here but why would people who dictate policy, change if they dont have to . Number two, how it never concedes power so okay, little malcolm. [laughter] i understand the struggle. Yeah, that may feature that its just not going to change because who gives up power . I asked my students, how many of you have had a privileged that you have given up . Just because its the right thing . Some say well, i took my own, i said did you give it up forever . Did you give it up for a year, what did you give up . Did you really get up . You may be right but its pessimistic, too. Sometimes things change because they are right. Not often. Im probably not all the way there with kane, i think it was king who said the arc of history bends toward justice. I think bends and then bends back. I see it as a continuing. We will fight and we will make change and we are doing better than our ancestors did. We have children and we are going to do everything we can to make sure they do better. We just cant stop fighting. We have to fight. Think what happens, many people think victory its over. We have to be fighting until the date we are dead in our kids will have to continue to fight and their kids will have to continue to fight. Thats not quite as pessimistic as whos giving up power . The demographics of this country are upon us. Like 2045, people of color will be the majority. Thats what this whole immigration hysteria is all about. The wall and kids in cages and the voter suppression, its on. We are in that kind of struggle, a struggle over demographics. The demographics will determine some of the change, not all. Im often reminded of south africa, 90 black but 10 of the people had the power. The demographics werent necessarily determined destiny but we will have to continue to fight the fight. Keep on fighting. Another question over here. I was wondering if you did research into traditionally female professions like social work and nursing and librarians. The first africanamerican librarian of congress, you see that as i look at the numbers, i do a deep dive on it in corporate america, i cant look at everything. People of color are acutely underrepresented in every influential field. We may be overrepresented as caretakers, in museums as security guards so no, this is a systemic issue, its not relegated to one or three fields. Another question over here. I want to know your opinion about bias ive been to a couple of them. I cannot understand how they can look at the structure of this country and this society. Now you include everybody will be looked at. In a few hours, we are going to undo the damage thats been done for centuries of our race. You check a box, thats whats considered driveby diversity. We are just going to fix it overnight or in a few hours. I looked at many of the studies on diversity training, anti bias training and the most comprehensive study at best saying it makes negligible difference in the study by harvard found it makes things worse. Particularly is if you require it, it causes a lot of resentment and the numbers of people of color usually drop after you go through that because theres so much tension and resentment around it. So its not the way to go but thats what most companies do. Thats what they are spending the billions mom, doing things like that. Time for one more question. Talking about being hopeful, you have terms of the entertainment industry, do you think tyler perry and his new enterprise, which will bring so many people of color in to various aspects of movie and theater production, some of part of the answer in trying to put people out there that has skills . People of color in their own is always helpful. Tyler perry and a number of people, there are a lot of activity around people opening their own studios and of course that will help because does that help the systemic problem . Probably not. But yes, it will help, it will employ some people and they will be trained and hopefully they will be able to go to other studios. Im not convinced the pipeline was ever the problem anyway so i dont think that is going to change the systemic issues im talking about. Give it up. [applause] thank you. That was an incredible discussion and we are so lucky to have you here tonight. Theyre going to my favorite portion of the night, book signing. We have a lot of copies over there at the table. Grab one, get it signed and hit the register downstairs. Well have you line up down past christian living. Thank you for coming. A look up books being published this week. An anonymous author presumed to be a senior official in the Trump Administration takes a critical look at the president and a warning. And great society, compares the economic debates of the 1960s to those happening today. And like chronicle, House University carried chronicles the life of the early 20th century the newspaper editor and civil rights activist william trotter. Also being published this week, jodys, broke, residents affected by the cities they curtsy in 2013. University of Texas Law School professor tom details how the electric power in america has changed over the past 40 years in a book called pollution, politics and power. For this week in march for the authors in the future on the tv on cspan2. Thank you for coming out this evening. Hes the author of nine previous books, the New York Times best saddam seller, the last battle. Hes a captivating speaker, at least i say. He has tested