I would say that all ambassadors deal with other countries including aspiring countries. Unusual to name u. S. Ambassador to the eu to be responsible for all aspects of ukraine. I will take your answer. Its still in his portfolio which was my question. A man of great integrity. One of our our most successful ambassadors. You would agree hes a man of great reputation. Right . Yes. Would it surprise you if an 2004 john kerry had a member of his campaign who was a Foreign Policy advisor, traveling to ukraine in july and met with ukrainian officials and the ukraine ambassador, with that surprise you . A member of john kerrys campaign for president of the United States in 2004 travel to ukraine met with the u. S. Ambassador in july. Not necessarily. If a member of the campaign traveled to the ukraine, would you have taken that meeting . I guess it would depend on what the purpose of the meeting was. That meeting actually occurred. It was with john holbrook. A private citizen. Went to went to ukraine. Also there about hivaids. Something the Clinton Foundation was working on. An official of the campaign in 2004. A private citizen meeting with our ambassador in ukraine. We meet with private individuals all the time. Time has expired. Mr. Carson, you are recognized. Thank you. Returning to the topic of corruption. We heard evidence that you are successful at promoting efforts of corruption. Testifying about your career as a champion in ukraine, Deputy Assistant secretary said you cannot promote principal anticorruption action without passing off corrupt people. It seems that your effort as ambassador to essentially perform in ukraine doing exactly that, ambassador, what concerned you about the Prosecutor Generals Office when you were the ambassador in ukraine . What concerned us was there did did not deceive be any progress in the objectives. The first thing was, reforming the the Prosecutor Generals Office. Tremendously powerful office. Also to do the actual prosecution. A very wide power. Part of the legacy. There just was not a lot of progress. There was not a lot of progress in handling personnel issues. How the structure should be organized and who should have the important job. Some of the people in those jobs were known to be corrupt themselves. Secondly, the issue that was tremendously important to these people of bringing justice to the over 100 people who died during revolution of dignity in 2014. Nobody has been held accountable for that. That is kind of an open wound for the ukrainian people. Thirdly, ukraine people. Thirdly, ukraine needs all of the money that it has. There is a strong belief that former president cove village and those around him made off with over 40 billion. 40 billion. That is a huge amount of money in ukraine. Again, none of that money has really been, i think maybe 1 billion may be, but the the rest of it still missing. Was the head of that office corrupt . We believe so. You got the sense that he was a driving force against some of these attacks against you . I do. Which ultimately led to your removal. Correct. Let me get this straight. You are effective effective at fighting corruption in ukraine. Fighting that corruption was important to the security of the United States. You were punished for that. Ultimately being removed by the president of the United States. In your opinion, why is it important to have a nonpartisan career in the Foreign Services. I think it is important to have a nonpartisan partisan service because what we do is inherently nonpartisan. It is about our National Security interest. Not about what is good for a particular party at at a particular time. It has to be about the greater interest of our security. Frankly a dangerous world. Could you describe for us what policy you have sought to advance in your 33 years of service and specifically imposed soviet states like ukraine. That is a broad question. Certainly in my time in russia, armenia, all of these countries are very different as is ukraine. I think that establishing positive constructive relations to the extent that we can with those countries is really important. There are three basic areas. One is security. One is economic and one is political. Working all the issues, many of them, we certainly did that in ukraine as well. Thank you for your service. I yield to the chair. Thank you. Doctor winced rum. Thank you very much for being here. I just want to start by saying i appreciate your years of service. Moving around the world, the dangerous places, hearing from you today i realize we share some of the same feelings and experiences. Monday afternoon. March of of 2005. Told me i was being deployed and i had to be out the door in the next twothree days. Understand that shocking feeling that can come with an abrupt change like that. I was told that my orders would say you are going for 18 months. It may be a little shorter shorter than that. I served a year. This is where i have another personal relationship with what you are talking about. People craving a noncorrupt government. Family today, even though it helped to remove, they still have corrupt. Adding an open wound. You may imagine without military experience and background, taking an interest in the capabilities and the thoughts of those with boots on the ground like you and mr. Bulger and mr. Taylor. In your deposition on page 144, in terms of legal assistance, a very significant that this Administration Made the decision to provide lethal weapons to ukraine. Who in general makes up we all. Is that the team i mentioned . I have to move on. We all felt that it was very significant that this Administration Made the decision to provide lethal weapons to ukraine. This administration i assume you meant the trump administration. In your deposition also on page 144 you spoke about the generosity of congress. You mentioned congress. You mentioned it today. Part of your deposition, after that statement that i quoted before, did you advocate for that . You responded you responded yes. Did you advocate for that prior to the administration of 2016. On page on page 148 the question was where you satisfied that the administration was doing what was necessary to support ukraine . You said in what respect. You said you said helping them deter russian regression. You said yes. I agree. I thank them. The acting ambassador taylor was here wednesday. He testified about the president s decision to withhold legal aid. He said the president felt it might provoke russia. Russia has already been provoked. They have invaded ukraine. President obama had the right to make his own Foreign Policy. Make his own decisions as president of the United States. Correct . Yes. He has the right. I understand the prophecy. Im getting to that, actually. He has his right. As do all president s. Correct . Yes. We have one president , obama, who denies lethal laid altogether despite of other boots on the ground recommending, making that recommendation, such as you did. We have another president , trump, who vetted who vetted those that will receive the aid. Providing consistent with your inter Agency Recommendation and that of your colleague. Let me just ask from a military standpoint, without him, would you agree that russians have much greater military offense of options and flexibility in their effort to attack. Yes. They had another another option. Although it is no longer war being fought. There is another reason for that. I just wanted to make that point. The president has the right to have their own foreign policies and to make their own decisions. With that, i yield back. I want to thank you for your service as well. While i obviously do not dispute that the president has the right to withdraw and ambassador at any time, for any reason, but what what i do wonder is why it was necessary to smear my reputation. I was not asking about that, but thank thank you very much, maam. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, ambassador, you, ambassador, so very much. Unanimous. Unanimous. Republicans and democrats. Correct . No dispute. Summer of 2018, the smear the Smear Campaign began. In your testimony earlier today. Did the secretary at any time come to your aid . My understanding from the secretary and deputy secretary sullivan is that, you know, this sort of rumor about me, for lack of a better word, the Smear Campaign that was behind closed doors at that point. That there were a number of discussions between the president and secretary pompeo. It did keep me in place for as long as he could. It appears that back in 2018, the president was already making noises that he wanted you out of there. It appears as early as april april 2018 that was at a fundraiser for the president and recommended that you be removed. Subsequently in may of 2018 was pictured at a white house dinner with the president. Later in may, made over 325,000, illegally to the president reelection, illegally to the president reelection campaign. Are you aware of that . Does that help you understand a little bit more why this campaign was underway . Yes. You made some very riveting comments in your statement this morning. I just want to repeat. I think we should have you expand on it. I always understood that i served at the pleasure of the president. I still find it difficult to comprehend that foreign and private interest were able to undermine u. S. Interest in this way. Individuals who apparently felt by our effort to promote u. S. Policy against corruption. To do our mission, able to successfully conduct a campaign of disinformation against a sitting ambassador using unofficial back panel. Now, as i listened to make that statement, i was thinking about all the other persons in the service who now have to be concerned that its not good enough to follow the u. S. Foreignpolicy, but also be aware that may be the president has a back channel of interest that he is promoting that is opposed to our stated Foreign Policy. Can you expand on that, please. I think that it is important that whoever is representing the president and ambassador speaks with the full authority of the president of our Foreign Policy establishment. If there are others who are also helping with the responsibilities in the country, the ambassador with his mission to bring peace, that we all speak with one voice. It is all about our Common Security interest. It is not about, you know, commercial gain or anything else. It is about our National Security. In this case, the trace amigos appeared to be more interested in getting an investigation then into promoting and anticorruption effort in ukraine. Is that correct . That appears to be the case. You are told that one point in 2019 and february of this year, you spoke to a minister in ukraine that warned when it came to Rudy Giuliani, you needed to watch your back. What did you understand him to mean . I did not exactly know. The rumor was out there at that time. That information was shared with me that the mayor was working to have me removed. Let me just say that you have endured and orchestrated character assassination. It was hatched over a year and a half ago. Placed with enormous Campaign Contributions for the president s reelection campaign. You deserve more from the American People and you deserve more from Congress Supporting you. I yield back. Ive unanimous consent, mr. Chairman. Take that up later. You are recognized. Thank thank you, mr. Chairman and others. Thank you for being here with us today. Welcome. Welcome to the impeachment proceedings. I am sorry you have gotten drug into this. We have heard these outrageous and unbelievable accusations regarding russian inclusion. Accusations that are absolute nonsense. There is no basis at all despite promises from members of this committee that they had secret proof that would prove this. Now in year four, we move on ukraine and quid pro quo culminating yesterday when the speaker announced that the president would indeed be impeached and removed from office. With that, i now feel compelled to ask you, madam ambassador. Very simply and directly. Do you have any information regarding the president of the United States accepting any bribes . No. Any information regarding any criminal activity that the president of the United States has been involved with at all. No. Thank you. Thank you for answering that directly. The American People know this is nonsense. The American People know that this is unfair. I think that public support for impeachment will actually be less when these hearings are over dan when the hearings began they will be able to make their own determination regarding that. I want ask you one thing very quickly. My question is slightly different. Youve been asked, the president , any president has the ability to ask his ambassadors to serve at will. I am curious, do you think that is the right policy . I think it is. I do as well. There may be times where it is not used perfectly, but, i agree agree with you. It is the right policy. I dont think we should change at. Id like to read from some previous statements including one of your own. Regarding the appropriateness of obstruction in the uk. The fact that their investigations in the Energy Sector in ukraine as well as any other countries is not a surprise. Your previous testimony question. Was it the general understanding that it was accompanied that suffered from allegations of corruption. Your answer was yes. I am generally aware that it is considered a potentially corrupt company. Would you agree, then, that it is appropriate to investigate corruption . I think it is appropriate if it is part of our national strategy. What i would say is that we have a process for doing that. We have one with ukraine. Generally, it goes from our department of justice to the ministry of justice in the country of interest. I appreciate that. Regardless of the process, its appropriate for us to investigate. Giving these countries hundreds of millions of dollars. Here is a dollar of mine. Go ahead and give it to this other country. Please only do it if you know it will not be used for corrupt purposes or against our national interest. I promised our friends i would save a little bit of time. You mentioned earlier that the Vice President , calling for the specific firing of a specific prosecutor, that he was completing official u. S. Policy. The interesting thing is this, the Vice President had to countries that were his responsibility at the time. China and ukraine. He has braden been very proud. Again and again, the Obama Administration listened him so it does not surprise me that they would be fulfilling a policy that the Vice President certainly helped to formulate. Cypress. Thank you. Clarification. I have unanimous consent that does not involve you this time. Three articles. 2004 campaign. Caring forward policy. Time of the gentleman has expired. I may recognize you later. [inaudible] you are recognized. You are recognized. Thank you. Like a hallmark movie. Georgetown. This is all okay. [laughter] but it was not your preference seven or eight months ago. Correct. Your preference to be out in the pentacle of your career. Was it . No. You wanted to finish your extended . I did. What did you want to do after that . I wasnt sure. Theres nothing wrong with georgetown. Its a fine place. But its the only choice at the end of your extinguished career. Its not the end of the home movie. Its the end of a really bad Reality Tv Show brought to you by someone who knows a lot about that. Why did you, you previously testified that you sought advice from ambassador common at this time about what to do, correct . Yes. Why did you reach out to the ambassador . This was clearly so political and was not going to be the state department was not in a position to manage the issue, it didnt appear to me. So i asked the ambassador, he was a political appointee so he had just been in ukraine for a visit with some of his colleagues from buffalo. I reached out to him for advice. This was no longer ukraine interview, kind of a ukrainian but it became through the american politicians, they were locating allegations. I asked him for advice. This is an extraordinary time and the advice meant a lot. What was his advice . He suggested that i needed to go big or go home. He said the best thing to do would be to send out a tweet, that sort of thing. What was your reaction to the advice . Im sure he meant well but it was not advised i could really follow, it felt political. That was not something i felt was keeping with ambassador. Did he give you any specific suggestions on what to say about the president of the u. S. Or just Say Something nice . Just praise him. Thank you. I healed. I want to follow up, you asked a couple of questions, do you thank you could have done more to push back against the Smear Campaign . Im not suggesting this is what hes getting at but sometimes they ask, arent you respond responsible for your own victimizations . Old you say to people who said his kind of your fault, ambassador that you didnt fight your own . I think you know, ive done, ive been an officer for a long time. We have our own culture, our own chain of command and i did everything i could to address these issues and asked the state department to do what i felt was the right thing, which was support me when it was important to do so. Its also supporting the policy. I think it was for others to stand up for me. I agree. Since the chairman has gaveled out all of my colleagues today, i am going to read for the record many of the chairmans comments in september of the importance of the whistleblower. Thank you for your patience and service but since we have been able to conduct these procedures, september 29, wall street journal, whistleblower the center of the investigation of trump will testify the house very soon. Usa today, september 29, talking with abc news this week, the House Intelligence Committee that the whistleblower would testify ferritin. The only thing the way was the attorneys whistleblower in the testimony. September 29, adam chip the whistleblower at the center of a growing scandal surrounding donald trump will testify before the House Intelligence Committee very soon. On cnn, september 29. Abc and nbc meet the press, he expressed to testify. Two. Washington post september 29. On abc news this week, pelosis message echoed. He expected the committee to hear from the whistleblower very soon pending security clearance. In the huffington post, should told abc this week that they expect the whistleblower to appear before the committee ferritin. On the testimony of that was about. Washington times, that was allowed to come in. These are all quotes from adam schiff. The question was like george, have you reached an agreement yet with the whistleblower . Yes, we have, shift responded. Mcguire promised during the hearings that would be allowed to come in and come in without Justice Department or the white house to tell the whistleblower for the can and cannot say. Look at the unfiltered testimony of the whistleblower. Nobody to hear from whistleblower as soon as thats done and well keep writing chocolate to make sure the acting director doesnt delay. Cnbc, look at the testimony. An agreement has been reached on the whistleblower testifying before the committee ferritin. I can keep going but again, the chairman refused to allow us to put these into the record. I read them and as we know, is important to protect whistleblowers from retaliation and firing. We want to make sure whistleblowers are able to come forward. In this case, the fact we are getting criticized by adam schiff for a statement he made early on, shows the duplicity and the abuse of power we are continuing to see with one minute 54 seconds left, ill yield my time. Thank you. The chairman will see the transcript. There are those who have not been able to see the transcript. The testimony they provided were not able to use in these open hearings. Its an open hearing, all available testimony taken but the committee to be available to be discussed for the americans to see. But no, mr. Morrison and two others and another one have not been released. Help the chairman releases those. His whole thing was part of some scheme by the white house. To get him to do an investigation. You calling him as part of a scheme by child and pompeo and giuliani to do an investigation, i would like replace with the democrats . Bill taylor. If thats the plan, not the best plan ive ever seen put together. Their first witness, mr. Taylor was here wednesday. Thats what they were up to . Its the demonstration, thats not what on here. They never took any investigation. The reason it was released, they all talk with the president and they were convinced he was the real deal at the ambassador alluded to in her testimony. Thats why it was released. I yield back. A lot has changed since the whistleblower came back. First, most of what the whistleblower has alleged has been cooperated by the witnesses we have heard from. Second, the president who my colleagues so shamelessly continue to defend, continues to pressure, threatened and intimidated the whistleblower. I would like unanimous consent to be put into the record. September 26 from business insider, the whistleblower filed a complaint against him and guilty of treason. How about september 26, 2019. Trump suggests executing was a florist sources like quote in the good old days. Whistleblowers lawyer raises fear for the plants. The whistleblower has a right to anonymity. The lawyer has said he fears for his personal safety and will only answers questions in writing. I wish my colleagues would join me. We are here to talk about you and what you witnessed. You saw a law as it related to mr. Giuliani. I want to quote you but first ask you, when you were in ukraine, you understood giuliani was trumps personal lawyer. Is that right . Yes. Are you familiar with his quote in the New York Times describing himself as a lawyer saying he basically knows what i am doing, sure. As his lawyer. Were you familiar with that quote . It sounds from there. You have a lawyer with you and you understand that lawyers on the clients behalf, is that right yes. The problem for career to go outside that, is that place. I understand. Are you familiar with this story on making giuliani said he intends to visit ukraine and says we are not meddling in an election, we are meddling and an investigation, are you familiar with that . Yes. Eleven days before you were removed. Talking publicly about coming to ukraine. What is interesting is that giuliani said work, as in we are. He doesnt say i, he doesnt say i am meddling. He says we. Hes speaking for him self and his client. I want to talk about that quote, we are not meddling and an election, is an investigation. Is it proper for you or anyone who asks on behalf of the u. S. Government to battle an investigation . No. Why not . They are Law Enforcement channels and it needs to be handled properly. Any kind of political bias. This anticorruption crusader, trump and my colleagues have a great interest in anticorruption in both reference today the august 21 call in july 25 call. Isnt it true trump never mentioned the word correction . Trip. As far as the foreign aid, he cant be guilty, he can complete the chief, the eighth went to the ukrainians, isnt it true the only reason the aid when the only time the aid went was after the whistleblower complaint . Yes. You dont really get points when you get your hands caught in the cookie tour and if someone says hey, he has his hand in the cookie door and take your hand up. That is what their trying to take credit for. I want to discuss the tweet from the president today. With the attacks your character. I think i know who you are, i think the country knows who you are. When you were in ukraine, he smeared you on that phone call july 25. He is smearing you right now as youre testifying. You out of the ditch, other present smears going to stop you from fighting corruption . I will continue with my with. We still do that despite the fears . Yes. Thank you. I yield back. Three years, exporting service others, five state department honor the words president ial distinguished Service Award and the secretaries diplomacy and human rights work. Your toughest nails, your great example of what our ambassadors should be like. Your and on to your family, your honor to the ford service your and on to this country. Thank you for all you have done and will continue to do on behalf of your country. Im nervous but i am getting ready to do. I want to do a five year history of ukraine in about 45 seconds. Ukrainian people get set up with the ukrainian president and basically overthrow him. He goes on the run. This was the revolution of dignity who was the acting president during that time . I think it was thank you. Excellent. In march 2014, thats when we saw friedman coming into ukraine and ultimately the russians invaded the ukraine and try to annex crimea but also try to invade the entire country as well. Then there was an election the ukrainian president in june 20 2014, then who came to post in 2016 of august. Correct . Yes. January 2017, trump elected december 2017 when the tablets were approved. We saw the javelins delivered and put to use. Then we had zielinski directed in 2019 of april. Now zielinski defeated the previous president. Theres no level off between those two. Then in may 20, 2019. My question we talk about giuliani, do we know officials within the zielinski regime actually met with . I know two, one of the advisors. We also know of the former italian general we already established here, was correct. He served under zielinski for a couple of months until april, august. There parliament basically out. Yes. Something giuliani is trying to influence the zielinski regime, was a guy who work under the previous regime, is he the right guy to do it . Did he have much credibility with the current regime text. I dont think so. Do you know if any other ukrainians that mr. Giuliani was meeting with that was part of the zielinski regime . I would have already left by then. Even with the administration to come from zielinski once the election, there was a two month period of preparing to be installed as president. Even during that time, were you aware of any . There is one of the oligarchs whose named he met with him. That was apparently up meeting for giuliani. Those were not people actually in government or became in the salancik regime, correct . No. I yield back. Thank you. The big question here today, like you are pushed aside. Americans know that an employer but they shouldnt do it for certain reasons. They should be fired because you are disabled, because you are a woman or black and other reasons. I think most americans agree that the president shouldnt fire an ambassador or recall an investor because the ambassador is standing in his way. I want to ask you, did the president tell you why he was recalling you . No. Did anyone tell you why you work because . No. Did he ever consult you about who the goodbyes or bad guys were . Do they ever tell you . No. It appears and what we have heard, there were a group of president s meant, perhaps secretary. , they were in on this to help the president s side and investigated. I want to put aside for a second, in all the years of service, have you ever come across the president and asked by the president or known colleagues asked by the american president to help the president get an american investigated overseas . I am not aware of that. If the president asked you to investigate a former Vice President for this purpose, what would you have said . Knowing what i know today, i would have said no. Would you consider it an unlawful act . I dont know that it is unlawful. Se but i think again that there are channels for conducting the investigation. I would have been the best way to handle it. But it would be bizarre for a president to ask them to investigate them by another government. It also you mentioned there is corruption in ukraine, ukraine this is the only country that confronts corruption. If the people in power in a country where corruption is rampant are being asked by a foreign leader whos got a lot of leverage over the to conduct an investigation, with that be dangerous . They could. I also want to ask, he made a comment yesterday about selective prosecutions and what it means going forward. What kind of president s it sets. You spoke about that for diplomats help us consider the president going forward. If theres no consequences for President Trump or any president , what are the consequences in this country and any americans, not just the former Vice President for president ial candidate or anyone in politics that a person who does business in some other country, if a president will speak to another head of eight or a foreign official and trying to get back person investigated, what does that mean for the future of the country americans . I think investigations, prosecutions, judicial decisions properly should remain with investigators, prosecutors and the courts. I think, as i said before, i think senator, when he said politics need to stop at the waters edge, i think he was right and that. I give it back to the chairman. Thank you. Id like to join all of my colleagues on both sides in thanking you for your service. Id like to ask you about your earlier testimony, about your senate confirmation, she asked you healthy Obama Biden State Department prepared you to answer questions about hunter biden specifically. She mentioned you have been asked or prepared for question about Hunter Bidens role on the board of that but i dont thank you gave us the answer or answers the Obama Biden State Department prepared you to get in response to that question. You remember the answers . It was something along those lines of the Vice President s office. Did they brief you about the amount of money hunter biden was being paid . This wasnt part of the briefing. Ive had questions that might come up. In preparation for your confirmation, Hunter Bidens role that might be significant enough in my during the confirmation, correct . Apparently so. There are hundreds of questions. Whether hundreds of companies . How Many Companies did the obamabiden state department prepared you to get answers for . If so, if there were others, which once . I dont recall. You dont recall that there were any other companies . There probably were some this was eight while ago. I dont recall. But specifically recall teresa . Yes. The only one you will recall, the obama biden with the Vice President sons was on the board, there . Yes. Do you understand george kent testimony because its been related to you, he testified a few days ago, you understand that arrangement, hunter binds to throw on the board cost him enough concerns that asking testified in his statement in february 2015, i raise my concern Hunter Bidens status rate the conflict of interest. He talked about his response abilities over ukraine policy is one of those. Do you recall that . You agree with that . Yes. It was a legitimate concern to raise . I think it could raise the appearance of conflict of interest. Did you ever discuss that . I dont believe so. August 2016, prosecutor general fired by the president. Prosecutor general into teresa. She. I think thats right but im not sure. He was in charge of the at least. Are you aware of the public statements by the Vice President that the firing of the prosecutor general occurred march 20166 hours after he told him he needed to fire the prosecutor general or he would be 1 billion from the u. S. Do you recall that . Ups. You think that raises a potential concern of conflict of interest at the Vice President of the u. S. Was ordering the firing of the prosecutor in charge of the company identified as one that is corruption . I dont. I dont think the view that he was a good prosecutor general and corruption from i dont think the head with it. A legitimate concern about bidens role was to miss . I think it creates a concern that they could be in appearance. Reason for testimony, are the tooth we request time expired. There is be considered legitimate rather than the champ. Your time is expressed. Like to thank you very much, my voice my gratitude for your years of service. I cannot think of anybody else i would rather have presenting mass in the foreign capital you always have gone to a great deal of effort to better understand surrounding your removal. I think the facts. The spirit was orchestrated by the ukraine prosecutor. The president and some of the president allies. That campaign led to your removal despite 33 years of Outstanding Service. I sit here with a mix of emotions. There is right for your Outstanding Service and on the other hand plant a replacement for that. I am very angry about is the most powerful person to on the face of the earth would remove you from office after your stelar service and give the bill to characterize you as that news threaten that youre going to go through some things. So i am angry. But im not surprised. After all, it was suggested that it was a they have committed treason, a crime punishable by death even though it was a floor heres the letter of law and attested to by both the Inspector General acting dni. After all he made the number of senator mccain he lied at the Naval Academy is a lifetime of Public Service and serving six years as president of work in attending the meeting every day. After all, he belittled the gold star family. His son gave his last full measure of devotion to this country. Seventy his older brother never saw his 35th birthday because of service in the vietnam, the words are deeply offensive. Words matter the words against you constitute bully of the worst order. Your good character, outstanding dictation have been in the way devoid of common decency. Here is my message. Theres nothing he could say for do, no i think that will in any way diminish the nature and quality of the service rendered to our great nation. Theres no i think he can say or do that will diminish our gratitude to you for service. I think you again for it. I would like you to answer, what does this mean to ukraine. When the u. S. Engages in the kind of behavior we are attempting to discourage him to engage in, a politically motivated prosecution. What does that mean to them and their struggling efforts to become a robust democracy . Was the impact ukraine for this behavior . I think ukraine looks to us for the power of our i think when we engage in questionable activity, that raises a question. It emboldens those who are corrupt who dont want to see ukraine become a democracy, free market economy, a part of europe what ukraine today under russias throne. That is not a security interest. Thank you very much. I bounced my time to the chair. I understand, lets take a five minute recess. Members of the audience could please remain in their seats to allow the council to leave ahead of us, we will resume in a few minutes. We are at recess. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] in audible decisions. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] in the will conversations. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] we returned to order. Thank you for being here. Ambassadors ever tried to influence country elections . No. Partisanship on this fact is not compatible with the role of career in Foreign Service officers thats exactly what happened in 2016. They is our blessed are you writing about circular in the u. S. , he said this. Comment sent the wrong message. Ambassador charlie writes that it wasnt just that attack, he had former ukrainian Prime Minister who criticized trump. Earlier you said he was the individual who first alerted you to the messages of giuliani. This during the same time in the months prior to the 2016 elected. He called trump all kinds of names. Then a member of parliament who was a source for that and now somewhat famous dossier, he said this is a Financial Times again august 2016, when you first arrived in ukraine, he said this. The majority of ukrainians politicians are on Hillary Clintons side. He had several highranking officials in the government and hes the president of ukraine, he criticized trump all in the late summer and fall of 2016. When this is all happening, did you talk to anyone about this . Did you say you need to knock this off . This perception we got, the majority of ukrainian politicians on clintons side, thats not good. Did you have that conversation . No. He didnt talk to anyone . No. Didnt alert anyone in the government . No. One of the things weve heard so much in depositions and the hearing on wednesday is how important bipartisan support is for ukraine. Democrats and republicans agree wanting to help ukraine, mr. Taylor said ukraines most important asset is this bipartisan support. You agree . Yes. He said this on wednesday, september 11, i learned the next day and Buster Taylor said i conveyed this news and i reminded him of type Strategic Value of bipartisan support for ukraine and not getting involved in other countries elections. What im wondering is, this is the day after they were enlist enlisted, and Buster Taylor made this statement that he makes this after this nothing done by the ukraine to influence our election. He didnt announce he was doing an investigation he felt he needed to say that by 2016, when we know the majority of the ukrainian politicians wanted clinton to win, when the ambassador to the u. S. Rights criticizing trump names, nobody talks to them and tells them to knock it off. Did you have conversations with victoria or terry about what was going on in 2016 . No. No one did anything for you see like maybe the president was a little concerned about what went on in ukraine and you couple that with the corruption level we dont existing in ukraine and add to that this idea that is not a big fan before theyd . What he might be a little concerned about the tax dollars of the american dollars . Im sorry, is there a question . Could you repeat it . There was. I am asking your time has expired but repeat the question. Maybe we can see why the president was a little concerned when you have the highest ranking officials in the government, criticizing him. When you have the guy who first told you about giuliani criticizing him. When you couple that with the concerns about your not doing enough in reluctance of sending taxonomist . Our indulgence has were out with you. Our indulgence has were out with you a long time ago. Do you think this may be a reason that president tubbs concern was justified . I cant speak for the president on this but what i would say is you have listed a number of actions, but doesnt create the Ukrainian Government strategy to interfere in our election. I didnt say that. I would say u. S. Politicians will criticized policies of foreign counterparts, even perhaps during election. This happens in politics and i think it doesnt necessarily constitute interference. Would you jordan, your time has expired. Thank you. Id like everybody here, and grateful to you for your career in Public Service. I feel bad about what you have door. Like your colleagues, you dont complain. You are doing their jobs. The fact that you were smeared, fired. The question is you know, its not how you were treated. The question is why the president did what he did and whether what he did was a breach of trust. The question really is about whether the president of the u. S. , any president has the authority to withhold congressionally approved aid to condition the white house meeting on extracting from a foreign leader, a willingness to assist him in this political campaign. Thats the question. That brings us to you as part of this because the question is, why were you fire . I want to read a portion of the president s call on july 25. This is the painful part when you first heard about it. The former ambassador from the u. S. , a woman was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the ukraine for bad news. I just wanted to let you know that. The other thing that goes right into this, theres a lot of talk about bidens son, that biden talked the prosecution and a lot of the people want to find out about that so whatever you can do the general would be great. You indicated in response to my colleague question. If you were asked to approach a for theater and condition americans support on their involvement in our campaign, he would refuse to do that. Yes. You are aware now but i dont know if you work then, july 25 on call occurred the day after director moeller reported that the interference in 2016 campaign was not for ukraine, this active, energetic and by the flesh, correct . Yes. As ambassador, you had no knowledge of whatever it is President Trump ultimately seems to have wanted to get full cooperation in this investigation, correct . Yes. Youve been asked about whether a president has authority to replace and ambassador and you have agreed thats the president s prerogative. Yes. Assumes the reason our not related to the personal private political interest but the president at the expense of our National Security. Youve been the target of insult from the president , he joined some very distinguished company, by the way, general kelly, i admire, i think all of us do, general medicine. We are not here to talk about that. The most recent you get insulted as you did today, essentially blaming you for somalia. This is another step by the president to intimidate witnesses, he didnt intimidate you, your peers. You have enjoyed. There are others out there that can expect the trump treatment if they come forward. Thats a question for us. The transcript is out and it was someone who indicated that everything hinged, the white house meeting and the release of the vital defense of eight, everything on the president in sliwinski being wheeling to do that investigation that would fit the truck campaign. You are aware of that. And youve indicated that is something you would not agree to do. S. And someone was quite wheeling to do. I say you for your professional service and i yield back. Thank you for being here. Its been a long day. The first time we met, it wasnt clear so i just want to start with a quick comment your testimony in this inquiry broke the dam, you were the first one through that stone wall that the president was trying to set up. I just want to thank you for that. Others have followed your example. Theres only thanks christian that the first person to log its a little bit bloody. You must understand that thanks christian. And thank you. Smack on to ask you about the day you were let go. I know this is the painful series of events but i say is very important. As on april 24th and he told us a few things that really stuck with me, you said you are at the embassy and the ukraine and you are honoring ukrainian woman anticorruption activist. I believe her name is katharina hondo. Is that correct. Yes, i was at my house. You are giving her the woman of courage award i believe. Thats the day you get a call from carol perez, Senior Member of the Foreign Service. Did you know her. Yes. It you had an opportunity to meet her before. Yes. She said theres trouble coming, to give you heads up. Prepping if i get this wrong. I did a lot but coming from the white house i will call you later. Assume i guess. We are literally, that evening honoring this anticorruption activist is that right. Yesterday. Just any woman to woman who you said was horribly attacked and killed. For her efforts and she wasnt just killed, you said i believe, the someone threw acid on her. This . When icheic during a break and it turns out she was horribly injured and it took four months for her to die. Is that . Yes a very painful death. Stomach points of the attacker with acid. There are easier ways to kill people i do say they did it with us and praise your i say he wanted her out of the way i say the message was this could happen to you is it too. If you continue her work. Is what happens we do up against corrupt people in the ukraine. Is something that can happen and there are other ways of sidelining people. Soon a few river at that if it. I do. Im going to look at what you said. He said, katerina paid the ultimate price for her fearlessness fighting against corruption and for her determined efforts to build the democratic ukraine. You are staying that. Stomach yes select any phone rings. In his trouble at the street. Got a call at 1 00 a. M. You stayed up to get the phone call prayed and thats when she says, two things i believe that really stuck with me. She said, we are worried about your security. It just been honoring a woman who was killed for fighting for her anticorruption efforts and you can again explain. Was she speaking euphemistically we do get time or did she meant literally the next plane. I say she meant as soon as possible. But pretty much it was then explained. Is the pretty good fight back from washington you are in meet with deputy secretary sullivan. And he said for you two things. He says, is the concerted effort against you and he says youve done nothing wrong. Right. When im fascinated about is what did you expect United States government would do next. It was pretty clear that a decision had been made by the president. And if limited by the state department that i had to leave ukraine. I hope that there would be more public support. Did you have expect and have your back. Yes. And you were you surprised that there were going to. Not at that anymore. Y. Because over the last several months, that had not been the case. Maam in your opening statement, you said, how can your system fail like this. How is it that a foreign, excuse me, how is it that they can manipulate our government. How can your system fail like this and how is it like that they could manipulate our government. What you know maam, that is the very question we are determined to get an answered for and i want to thank you on behalf of your country for your service. And with her work in answering that question. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you so much mr. Chairman ambassador and everyone in this room. They should be thankful for your service to our nation. I have four little girls in my life and as i sit here thinking about them and as a woman, i cannot be prouder of you. I consider you and inspiration for women around the world. I just have to see before i get into my questioning is that i say it is disgraceful to hear my colleagues refer to your testimony as a performance tod today. Her speak in a condescending way basically suggesting that the woman because i say thats how the president referred to you. Not sure he knows your name. But suggest that the woman should be thankful for whatever she was lift with, Smear Campaign and all after your recalled but i want you to know today that we thank you for your service. Your 33 years of service. An press conference october 17th, acting acting white house chief of staff mulvaney, discussed his belief that its entirely appropriate to politicize u. S. Foreign policy and here is what he said. If you read the news report then annually them, what did mckinley see yesterday. Mckinley said yesterday he was really upset with the political influence and Foreign Policy. That was one of the reasons what he was so upset. About this. And i have news for everybody. Get over it. Theres going to be political influence in Foreign Policy. Investor you want do you share the concern raised by an investor can mckinley in testimony before this committee about political influence in Foreign Policy. Is the said before, i say is important to keep political influence out of Foreign Policy because we help when we are republican or Democrat News or Something Else as Common Security interest and that needs to be safeguarded in advance. And what message do you say is sent to other Foreign Service officers and Public Services which we so desperately need good ones when it an administration refuses to support its own officials. In the face of a Smear Campaign. Troubling and there are morale issues at the state department. Morale issues at the state department. I can understand why. On march 20th, 2019, President Trump tweeted an article that included a letter from representative Pete Sessions that said you add and i quote privately and repeatedly about your disdain for the Current Administration the way that call for the explosion of you as you ambassador to ukraine and immediately, could you speak publicly and privately about your disdain for the trump administration. No. 720 say the president would want to push such a life. I dont know. Policies change but u. S. Interests dont. Not for those who are seeking to do the work of protecting our nation come the work you have done for decades. In the present and chief of staff, and his allies seem to want nothing more than to smear the good people and trying to protect this country. And hijack our institutions for their personal and political gain. And again ambassador, we thank you so much for your service. And it will yield my remaining time to the chairman. Thank you. Good afternoon ambassador and thank you to this family as well. For being here and supportive you today. I like to direct you to mary of bipartisanship aid to be fine. Congress on an overwhelmingly bipartisan basis and appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars in military assistance of ukraine correct. Yes. And then aid is being used by ukraine to fight a common adversary name at rest at right. Stomach u. S. In fact has consistently partnered with other European Countries to keep russia and pay and maintain the peace you wrote smoked right yes. Has investor taylor suggested earlier this week, supporting ukraine helps maintain peace so that americans dont have to go to oregon and youre up. spoke yes. Suspending that aid, and weakening ukraine, can increase the likelihood of the opposite correct. Sumer yes extremely shortsighted. Smack the last time you were in ukraine was may 20th of this year stomach yes. In his opening statement, and mr. Taylor said he took charge and ukraine on june 17th. Yes therefore there was a mistake one month gap between the time you departed and when taylor took over write. Submit yes. During the time on may 20t may 20th, ambassador and rick terry and others came to the inauguration of president zelinski right. Yes. During the gap in time, ambassador visited the white house along with others and got direction from President Trump to talk to rudy. Those were his words. Talk to rudy about what to do and ukraine bright. My understanding. In other words isnt that the case that your departure and the one month gap, between the time you lift and went investor taylor arrived provided the perfect opportunity for another group of people to basically take over ukraine policy has brought right. Yeah. Investor, youll have to stick a ladder into mike. Yes. Thank you pronunciation of your opening statement, you mentioned corrupt interest apparently hijacking a ukraine policy right. Yes. A couple suspect individuals in that regard, were lift harnessed. Select yes. Assume argument in response the minority counsel earlier that you learn that from an in harness were attending to open a liquefied natural, gas company. How did you learn that by the way. I heard from the interior. Hispanic interestingly today and noon, the wall street journal reported that federal prosecutors in manhattan, are investigating whether Rudy Giuliani said to personally profit from that liquefied natural gas venture. Given a knowledge of that pretty stomach nor do not. Maybe we should talk to rudy. Ambassador, i would like to direct you to another line of questioning that i had for investor taylor. He said that there were irregular channels of diplomacy at work and ukraine circumventing normal diplomatic channels and threatening american interests in favor of private interests. I asked him a question can you rule out the possibility that these irregular channels of diplomacy are being used in other countries where we conduct Foreign Policy. In response he said that he could not rule it out. Investor you nonage, ask you, and i assume you cant roll it out either correct. I cant but help would also add that i have no knowledge of that. Are you concerned that these irregular channels of diplomacy may be at work elsewhere. Thing is the possibility. You testified that it was a dangerous precedent in private interests and people dont like a particular ambassador could combine to replace that investor. Are you concerned that other investors may sever the same fate as you. Yes. Ms are in your service as an american diplomat, you have encountered various dictators and strongmen rolling other countries stomach yes. In your personal life, your parents well have the soviet union and nazi germany and they became familiar with dictators as well correct. Yes. Indeed you are an authority on the 13th. it may be. Isnt a feature to allow corrupt interest to hijacked foreign policies. Yeah. This is the feature of authoritarianism for the rollers there to claim absolute rights. Yes. And is in a hallmark of authoritarianism for those rulers to smear their opponents. Sometimes yes. Thank you. Time is expired. Do you have any concluding remarks. Always just a the American People the today show trial is coming to an end. When i headed down down to the baseman of the capital to go until i dont know what time and will be back there hiding again behind the closed doors. We will be interviewing more witnesses they may or may not be able to see in the public. I to bring it to my colleagues if there is anyone else out there watching Television Ratings but they must be plummeting right now. And i would suggest that we get back to the work of the Intelligence Committee that we passed trade agreement with the United States and mexico and canada and would actually help the American People out. This is an embarrassment. I yield back. I have remarks. Ambassador, i want to thank you for your decades of service. On a thank you as mr. Maloney said for being the first one through the gap. What you did and coming forward, and answering these subpoena, the loophole subpoena was to encourage others that also witnessed wrongdoing and that they is it too, which of the same courage that you have and that they could stay on up and speak out and answered questio questions. But they could endure whatever insults that may come their way. And your long distinguished career you have done another great Public Service in answering the call of our subpoena and testifying before us today. I say you gathered from our comments that we not only agree for what you went through but what damage is being done to the state department and the career federal Foreign Service officers over the country. I am profoundly grateful to you and mr. Kent and an investor taylor who done so much in the last two days or three days, to show the American People the face of our diplomatic corps. The extraordinary Public Servants who work all around the world and very dangerous places as you have. And so im glad theyve gotten to see you because you are often vilified as a bureaucrat or diplomacy is diminished as unimportant. Anything other than military doesnt really matter. It is your efforts and often prevent us from going to war. Sometimes your disparage is the deep state. But what you are is what holds this country together and what holds her Foreign Policy together and what makes it seamless and what makes it work. And im glad american gets to see that. I will just emphasize once again about the importance of your testimony. Mr. Kent and investor taylor, they gave us the broad outlines of the story. This is the story about an effort to coerce condition or bribe one country into doing the dirty work of the president. Investigations of his political rival. By conditioning u. S. Taxpayer her name by conditioning meeting that present was lindsay wanted and need it to establish the relationship for the most powerful patron in the ukraine of the United States of america. The fact that they failed in the solicitation of bribery, does that make it any less bribery. It doesnt make it any less immoral or corrupt, it just means it was unsuccessful. And to that we owe other dedicated Public Servants who blew the whistle. And then out mother was only not be here. And i say it is appalling that my colleagues continue to want to out this whistleblower so that he can be punished by this president. Lets underscore once again you are the beginning of the story, not the end of it but nonetheless, the beginning is important. Because the beginning of the story is an effort to get you out of the way. An effort might Rudy Giuliani, and truman and arneson corrupt ukrainians like sanko, to get you out of the way. Because they felt you were an impediment to these political investigations the presence of this abruptly wanted. Giuliani mayday abundantly clear that he was in ukraine on a mission for his client for the president to investigate the bidens. And you are viewed as an optics obstacle that had to go. Not just by giuliani by the president of the United States and if people had any doubt about it, they should do with the president asked, read the transcript. And with lc in the transcript is the president praises that corrupt and he praises the corrupt psycho, and he condemns the just. You. And he asked for an investigation of the bidens. There is no camouflaging that corrupt intent. Where it started. Mr. Chairman you disparage those on the side of than we should have a chance to respond. Mr. Chairman, i demand to speak. [applause] mr. Chairman [applause] mr. Chairman mr. Chairman. [silence] [applause] mr. Chairman. [applause] [applause] [applause] [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds]