Transcripts For CSPAN2 U.S. Ambassador To Russia Confirmation Hearing 20240713

Relations Committee Considers the nomination of John Sullivan to the u. S. Ambassador to russia. Mr. Sullivan, who currently serves is deputy secretary of state, was asked several questions about the President Trumps communication with the president of ukraine in july and alleged efforts to have ukraine investigate former Vice President joe biden in exchange for military aid. This confirmation hearing is just on two and a off hours. [background sounds] [background sounds] the meeting will come to order. Thank you all for attending today. Today were going to hold the nomination hearing on a very important position. Our nominee today is the honorable john j sullivan, to be the u. S. Investor to the Russian Federation. First we have two distinguished very distinguished, i might add colleagues of ours, was to introduce our nominees and were going to allow them to proceed with introductions. If im going to post on my opening statement. Lets hold that until the nominees had been introduced. Were glad to be joined today by senator Stan Sullivan of alaska and garden of maryland, and i understand that senator sullivan is like the straw to go first. Thank you mr. Chairman thank you very much. It is an honor to be before the committee, again, on behalf of my friend John Sullivan to support his nomination to be the United States investor to the Russian Federation. Despite what his last name which is just, we would we are not related. Off of occasionally joke with senator markey was also a proud sullivan member and his heritage somewhere back in history, we were probably all related. I have publicly supported secretary sullivan his nomination was before. I can speak to his long distinguished career, which you are familiar. I would begin by stating that john experience and qualifications have already been endorsed by this committee and by the United States Senate Previously confirmed is deputy secretary in may 2017, by a vote of 94 six and confirmed in the Bush Administration in march 2008, unanimously, the deputy secretary of commerce, and in july 2005 unanimously by the general counsel of the department of commerce by a voice vote. Freshman john we were sitting together in the george w. Bush administration. I was working is an assistant secretary of state on secretary lisa rice and john was the deputy secretary of commerce. And most notably, since 2017, john has successfully served is the United States deputy secretary of state with integrity. Has done an extremely impressive job in this Critical Role in widely respected not just across federal National Security agencies and government but internationally and most importantly, by the employees of the department of state which he has helped to lead. He has worked with them, led them, stood by them, and for them, is his tenure is deputy secretary. No i dont often take the quoting the National Media you may have noticed, that there is a wide crosssection of journalists and media in our country that noted johns obligations and reaffirmed the positive impact is already had the state department an article from politico, recently stated that John Sullivan deputy set secretary his winning over state department employees, so far sullivan is shown in fluency with diplomacy that is delighted his colleagues in the state department. The washington examiner, by ms. Miss martin calm and experience, three crucial ingredients in leading the u. S. Mission to russia. In wall street journal, by ambassador thomas pickering, one of the nation his most distinguished career diplomats he said secretary sullivan, ive come to respect on sullivan his judgment, his balance and his good sense and his openminded approach to how to deal with the difficult forum relations problems our country has. Mr. Chairman, you may also have seen this very long letter of distinguished National Security executives and former diplomat and military officials and secretaries of defense and brother positions who are all endorsing secretary sullivan his and mastership to russia. Is a relates to the responsibilities, with regard to the new position for which he has been nominated, deputy secretary salva currently leads onto ongoing u. S. Russia dialogues on counterterrorism and Strategic Security and has also played a key role numerous bilateral issues relating to the u. S. Russia relationship over the past two years. At a time when u. S. Rate russia relations are complex and difficult and strained and difficult than ever, it is important to have someone like john is americas top diplomat. Mr. Chairman, a few months who had the honor of introducing another outstanding them or be for this committee. General john, ambassador to saudi arabia. The time i said that while there are monday disagreements and spotty about her policy toward saudi arabia, there should be consensus that we need a well respected u. S. Ambassador there. Simon drove with the same russia today, John Sullivan is the man of integrity, and he understands what it means to honorably surf our nation and has a career of doing so. I just committee to support his nomination. Thank you mr. Chairman. Mentioned a letter that was addressed myself. From various aspects of Public Service. I will admit that into the record now. Thank you. I am pleased to join senator sullivan introducing secretary sullivan, to this committee. Secretary sullivan his maryland or or who has a boston accent. And served our nation, well and in Public Service is deputy secretary of state thats make a 2017. Acting secretary of state april of 18, in senior positions and department of justice the Defense Department of commerce, two decades the private attorney, he is well qualified for this position. John sullivan to me is the straight shooter. Is expressed public servant, my experience with him, is that he is had communicated with me effectively and honestly. He reached out to inform me when i was a ranking democrat on this committee and he is respected my role is United States senator and is the member of this committee. Most recently in our conversations he told me he was looking for a challenge. When he agreed to take this position. While you certainly will have a challenge of confirmed is ambassador to russia. This is the challenging position. Chet russia has been our adversary, make no mistake about it. They interfered with the 2016 elections, and that was not isolated to the United States. Report that i on behalf of this committee, 2018, he pointed out that mr. Printed a symmetric arsenal and is attacking his Democratic Institutions of democratic countries you wrote and now in the United States. Invaded and occupied is so occupied ukraine. In violation of our principal of helsinki final courts. Mr. Putin also is occupying russia and georgia and moldova, interfered in syria and violated the human rights of its own citizens leading to the enactment of the minuscule, not only here in the United States but in countries around the world and the list goes on and on and on. So mr. Chairman, we need a confirmed ambassador who will support our democratic principles and give hope to the voices in russia the stay on up to the request of regime of mr. Putin. Let me conclude by just quoting from secretary sullivan on his nomination hearing that senator sullivan referred to on may 9, 2017. When the nominee told us our greatest asset is our commitment to the fundamental values expressed is the founding of our nation, the right to live and liberty in the pursuit of happyness. These are basic human rights on the federal rock of our republic and at the heart of American Leadership in the world. I couldnt agree more with those statements. I think John Sullivan and his family for being wheeling to step forward to take on this challenge. Thank you thanks to both of you senator sullivan i know you have a commitment. I am a commitment also. You do. Glad to have you. I want to thank all of you again for coming and john welcome we are going to hunt up like today of the honorable John Sullivan to be the United States ambassador to russia. We welcome you back to the committee. Thank you for your willingness to continue surfing and what is the challenging and very Important Role in been here before. I have no doubt that this will be a brief hearing. My colleagues will be kind and generous with you is we go through this. Senators have already given deputy secretary sullivan, introduction possibly taking a few moments to take about the importance of this position. Must be agree that the u. S. Relationship with russia is at a low. Successive u. S. President s of both Political Parties have attempted to reset the relationship only to find that the brother side is an unwilling partner. This is caused in noble part, by our very different value sets, and are very different views on helping mankind. Bilaterally for the past few years have been marked right russians and ferrets in the American Electrical process is all right betty notice by the interference of brother electoral processes around the globe. By the expulsion of each others diplomats, and by a complete lack of trust, due to russians worldwide bad [applause]. Internationally rather than Global Health safety, russia test told and chosen to wreak havoc. We have all familiar with the long list of russias blind global activity. In a shredded international agreements, like the conventional forces you wrote treaty. The seas sovereign senator tony territory from georgia and ukraine and continues to occupy today, in violation of all International Norms and indeed, United Nations condemnation. It has poisoned its enemies with chemical weapons on foreign soil. And violated the item of treaty so blatantly, that all nato allies, reached a unanimous conclusion on those violations. Russias support is kept brutal dictators in syria and venezuela and wrong answers. They should have and would have fallen. And the government continues to metal in the elections of brother democratic states such is the referendum. See none so far is to in 2016. Thankfully, brother than those of the International Community to engage in similar conduct most countries recognize russias blind global influence and of taking action. The eu and u. S. Sanction corrupt russian on the make missy out. His Defense Industry on tessa, and his injury Energy Industry and by executive order all of which raise government revenue and to act maliciously. I have the house and senate will soon act passed the bill sponsored by senator bruce cruz, anthony and that will sanction those involved in north stream pipeline. Most of us, have worked and continue to work to get that done. In spite of her monday issues, there are also times of cooperation with russians. Like in the area of counter terrorism. It is important that we make clear to the russian people, that we do value our relationship with them. We should make sure that education and cultural exchanges, still take place and that we support Civil Society in their country in any way we can and up was standing malign packs of their leaders. Russia is the proud and important country on the international stage. In the u. S. Russia relationship will exist long after putin his gone. And all this leads me to the reason we are here today. To evaluate the nomination of deputy secretary sullivan to be the populace representative is to capture that we had to catch such a contentious relationship with. Its an incredibly Important Role. Deputy secretary sullivan is ready for this role. He has served the u. S. Government for the Department Congress and defense and justice, and i would see. I am confident that for the past two years surfing is our deputy secretary of state has given him a clear view of the multitude of problems we have with russia in the u. S. Government his efforts to resolve them, and the experience to navigate both our system, and russias system. I am honored and pleased to hear the compliments that you received from both sides of the aisle and even from the National Media. Thank you for being here today and thank you to your family for sharing the sacrifices this going to take to do this and with that i will turn it over to ricky member fernandez. Thank you mr. Chairman. To understand the rule of congress is a Political Branch of government and you have differentiated yourself from those of the administration who saw it on to break every norm in the current Foreign Policy. That is why we expect continued candidness from you here today. Unfortunately, one person to matter how skilled and dedicated, cannot counteract the disarray that is become of the Top Administration of Foreign Policy. I have served 27 years between house and senate work on Foreign Policy that entire time. Never before, have i seen such chaos was policy incoherence, from syria to turkey to run to ukraine and to russia. Our state department is on the front lines of our national defense. They are patriots charged with achieving all goals to the diplomacy. Never my 27 years missing a department so mismanaged. And so monday of our diplomats alondra. You dont have to take my word for it, just look to the testimony of two patriots. None of which an investor taylor taylor. The denigration of these two dedicated public servants, and the displays. The state department is in disarray and casualty of present prompts to u. S. National security is the political weapon. Never in my 27 years have they seen a department or an administration so wheeling to stick his thumb directly in the eye of congress a coequal branch of government. I dont think we have to cite the constitution here today but am certainly prepared to do so. Over the years has been pertinent to swim is between the legislative and executive branch and thats normal. We mentored New Territory and dangerous territory for our republic. Im not just talking about the house current inquiry, on talking about asking 20 times to get a basic piece of information. Extreme lengths that we we have had to go through to get a single doctorate. Department refusing to even discuss certain matters. Its not just playing hardball, undermining our democratic system of government. Unfortunately this is taking place on your watch and the action of pompeo. Secretary has a lot to answered for. So to you. We will talk about all of those issues and been so central to the Administration State Department last two half years. Also here to talk about your mission and bilateral relationship with the Russian Federation. I do not believe russia should be playing the role is in syria. I dont believe those doing business with Russian Military like turkey to becoming a free pass. I believe that russia should belong to the g7, at least not until they can change the course of events. And dont believe is acceptable to the lake tomato that directly benefits russia. Present trump is on the record is blaming all of the saints, everything one. I think the president has lost any shred of legitimate c. Ukrainians died of this because of him. America was made less. So mr. Secretary i want you to succeed in moscow if you are confirmed. Really do. But i need to hear directly from you is to what constitutes success. The success for filling president s prompts pro vision for the u. S. Russia bilateral relationship. All you actually advocate a policy to protect u. S. National security. It is a fundamentally important choice. It is the former, all have serious reservations about supporting your nomination. If its the latter, then im open to the conversation. And i look forward to hearing your thoughts on the choice. U. S. Policy in russia has been intrinsically wrapped up in ukraine policy. Given that Russian Forces continued their onslaught of its ukrainian troops and civilians in the fox. In onslaught i will again note that was made easier by the delay in providing Security Assistance. Your position of the state department would have afforded you the responsibility of overseeing the conduct of policy. But is you know about the role played by Rudy Giuliani. To the unique volunteer status lead to conflict of interest and confusing policymaking process. Where was the state department leadership, yourself included i came to depending ambassador jovanovich. At others. Now i supported you for your present position. But before i vote in your nomination, were going to need answers to these and brother questions. So i cant guarantee you the chairman suggesting that this will be a quick and simple and kind area. I look forward to your answers to the questions that have been posed. Thank you for your views. Dipper terry secretary sullivan. Hes been surfing is w secretary and served in several senior positions at the department of congress and justice of defense, as well is a partner in several law firms. Deputy secretary sullivan, thank you to your family and to goleta from the 40 former officials, from previous administrations democrats and republicans, that have been entered into the record certainly speak to the highranking would shield you. To that alternative to you and your full statement will be included in the record. Is you did spend about five minutes to talk to us about your views on these matters. Thank you. Secretary sullivan. Thank you. It is an honor to up here before you today is the president s nominee to be the United States ambassador to the Russian Federation. I want to thank the president for his confidence in me and the opportunity with the senate his consent, to represent our nation in moscow. I also want to thank secretary and mark pay pao for his leadership of the department of state and the support of my nomination, finally i am indebted to our most recent ambassador of russia, my friend john. For his leadership of our mission there, and his advice is i succeed him. I come before the committee is you noted mr. Sherman that the surfing before two half years is a deputy secretary of state. At six weeks of that tenure is the acting secretary. My service at the Department Working with the men and women of the foreign and civil service, and washington and around the world, has been the most rewarding professional experience of my live. In my service would not have been possible that went out the love and support of my family who are joining me here today. My wife and grace and our children jack and katie and teddy. My motherinlaw, raffaella rodriguez and my sisterinlaw susan rodriguez, president tony and their children. I maternally grateful for them and their support. If confirmed is the u. S. Investor of russia i will bring to my position not only my experience is a deputy secretary of state, but also my Prior Experience is you noted this chairman in a variety of brother positions over the last 35 years. I believe my background and experience earned in four cabinet departments across three president ial administrations has prepared me to assume the profound responsibilities of surfing is a chief admission in moscow. And experience teaches us that this diplomatic visit nick position will not be easy or simple. A relationship with russia has reached a postcold war effort. The litany of russias alliant acts severely strained our relationship is painfully familiar to this committee. Intending to interfere in our nara allies elections, violating the territorial integrity and sovereignty of georgia, implying a weapon of mass destruction and attempt to assassinate its citizens abroad. In violating the inf treaty, and infringing on the basic human rights of its people among brother things. Yet the need for principles engagement with russia is is important to our National Interest is ever. Russian status is a Nuclear Superpower and permanent member of the Un Security Council upholds us to engage on a range of issues involving global stability and security this requires the state does, see with the russian government and the areas of shared interest for example an arms control corporation, to counterterrorism, and the opposition to russia where undermines the interest and values of the United States and our allies and partners. For example for threatening security in the United States. Is a deputy secretary of state have been directly involved in developing u. S. Policy in russia, i laid the u. S. Participation in ongoing terrorism dialogue with the russians. And it let a senior u. S. Delegation to geneva and midjuly to restart a u. S. Russia Strategic Security dialogue. Last month, i participated in the decision to oppose sanctions on the afghani goshen, and others associated with the Internet Research agency, for their attempt to interfere with u. S. 2018 midterm elections. Considering these complex issues, i want to acknowledge this committee his leadership and insights on russia, is i have mentioned in recent meetings with monday of you, if confirmed, i would welcome the opportunity to consult and collaborate with members of this committee individually and collectively, on our russia policy. If confirmed i will continue to support dialogues with the russian government and the counterterrorism and armscontrol as well is on d nuclear arising the Korean Peninsula and finding a peaceful solution to the conflict in afghanistan on syria and monday brother issues. But it will be relentless and opposing russian efforts to interfere in u. S. Elections to violate sovereignty of ukraine and georgia and to engage in a polite behavior that is reduced our relationship to such a low loophole of trust. I assure the committee that i will also be in that uncle and protecting the american citizens who live in a travel to russia including the u. S. Business Community Scholars and athletes and tourists, and allamericans to visit the Russian Federation. If confirmed, i intend to continue to press the russian government for the release of paul who is been in prison that went out charges for almost a year now. And to demand that michael case be disposed of in a civil proceeding not in a criminal court. If confirmed i look forward to working and engaging with the russian people to celebrate russian culture and to commemorate motion history, listen to their perspectives of the issues that unite and divide us and convey to them directly, my American Perspective on those issues as well. I will also continue to promote with u. S. Law, and people he changes to foster a better among the russian people of the United States. And is i have done during my travels is deputy secretary of state, i will meet with several society including religious legislatures and human rights activists. Finally, it will be no greater honor for me if confirmed is u. S. Ambassador to russia, that to surf with the dedicated women and men and their families who constitute our mission in russ russia. I know from firsthand experience that is not easy to be a u. S. Diplomat and moscow, or brother places there. Yet dedicated career officers from across the u. S. Government, are surfing with distinction in the wake of massive staff cuts and certain team and intense pressure from the host government. The tenacity in the face of these challenges is inspiring and indeed it was the example of my colleagues and mission russia, that inspired me to this see to leave washington and joined them on the front lines of american diplomacy. I humbly ask this committee for that opportunity. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Members another committee thank you for the opportunity to up here before you today. I welcome your comments and questions. Statement thank you so much. When im going to do a round of fiveminute round of of questioning. Im going to reserve my time and will yield to senator menendez. Thank you. Do you think its ever appropriate for the president to use his office to select a set investigation a domestic political opponent. [inaudible conversation] soliciting investigations into political opponent. I dont think that would be in accord with our values. Is the deputy secretary of state, are you aware of any brother efforts by the president or anyone else to encourage suggest or request a Foreign Government investigate one of presence and rivals. Im not aware. Prime minister may, i am not aware of that senator. It. The massive, i appreciate you came by to meet with me and we had an indepth discussion. Your leg to me in our meeting yesterday and you personally have met a master you want to vision kit earlier this year. Is i press. Last year. Seaman agreed that she surf the department of state and represented the United States capably inevitable play. I told her so. Yet you are the one who told ambassador jovanovich, that she was being recalled early. Correct. I did. Spak interview was there any basis to recall a master harmonic. Guess it was. The president had lost confidence in her. The president had lost confidence in here. And youve told that by the secretary of state. I was. To u. S. Why he lost confidence in her. Yes. I was told that he had lost confidence in her period. The son of why, it is just. The answered i got was that he had lost confidence. And explain why. You sick me yesterday was you were given this assignment, you wanted to treat ambassador jovanovich, with respect is that correct. Thats correct. Select the best way to show respect and to push back. On the secretary of state why are we recalling someone by the way, his term had been extended and then work recalling her back even though there is only if a few months left in her nomination. A career ambassador, why didnt you push back. Is we also discussed yesterday, this had been a discussion that id had with the secretary over a period of time. In the secretary in turn, had pushed back and saw it on justification from those who were criticizing ambassador. After several months, the secretary finally told me there,. Which the president had lost confidence in the investor and we need it to make a change in our mission to the ukraine. You are aware that there were individuals and forces outside of the state department seeking to smear ambassador jovanovich. Is that correct. I was. And to seeking to remove her. Did you know mr. Giuliani was one of those people. I believed he was. Yes. When in fact this came about, did you ever personally advocate for a statement of support of b has behalf of the ambassador. At the time of her removal, i did not. Let me turn some of these brother questions. What did you know about a new pay policy carried out by Rudy Giuliani. My knowledge in the spring and summer of this year about any involvement mr. Giuliani was in connection with the campaign against our ambassador to ukraine. You were given a packet of disinformation attempting to smear ambassador jovanovich, given to you by the state department counsel. Counsel laura, yes, it was in response to inquiries by the secretary and others about what our ambassador had done. Is i understand we got the packet of materials. We had to cancel until you have the package keep him. Interviewed the secretary, believes he had received that packet from someone at the white house. And did he tell you that he and the secretary read the packet. He had with the packet, i dont know or dont believe the secretary had. You read the packet. I did. It didnt provide me a basis for taking action against our ambassador but i wasnt aware of all of, that might be going on the background and to be cautious, i asked that the packet of materials for purposes of assessing the truth of the matter they were being asserted it irrelevant, and the promise of the package, it was giving it to us to influence us. Look at two by the Inspector General and by the justice department. Select did you know it was mr. Giuliani who created the package. I dont know that. Unit and ask why came from. I did yes, i did ask but i dont know. No one told you where it came from. No. Is so it happened by midnight you. Has my referral of the package. The reason i ask you this line of question, is because you are going to an embassy, one of the most critical positions in the national National Security of the night United States, in which i think the presidency differ clearly from monday on both sides of the aisle is a relates to russia. And there may be moments in time in which what happened in ukraine, is going to be happening is a relates to russia. And the question is what we do. I will follow the law and my conscious and in this instance with respect to the removal of the ambassador, my experience has been that when the president loses confidence and investor in her no matter what the reason, that the presence confidence in his ambassador in a capital is the coin of the round of the most important thing for the ambassador and if he has lost that confidence and this happened is i think i may have mentioned some of the members of this committee to my uncle, investors who are run, president carter thought that my uncle was disloyal to the administration and to the president and the policies and in january 1979, at secretary and have my uncle removed is our ambassador. Secretary vance, objected to some of my uncle was of omitting the ministrations policies push back. Several months later, the white house president said solomon his gonna come out and he was removed is our ambassador who is undermined by the white house and there were leaks about his character and his loyalty to the United States into the administration and is a result, after 32 years of service, and the Foreign Service, threetime ambassador, he resigned from the service. So when the president loses confidence in the ambassador right or wrong, the ambassador needs to be removed. Spak walt close by staying i appreciate you telling me that story and appreciate hearing it again. When the president loses faith and investor because of political reasons, not because the policy reasons, not because the investors been disloyal to the United States, not because the investor has brought doing the job, when it is because surrogates like mr. Giuliani and others who have political and economic interests are pushing against our ambassador, i wouldve helped that you wouldve spoken of a lot more naughty and he gets up his position, i would expect you that happens to our people in the usmc in russia, and you will speak up much more forcefully. Is of the essence of being an investor. To represent the nation but also to defend the men and women who work every day and should be insulated from that dive boat political consequences. This is something that with the experience you just told me about, i wouldve thought the wood been more forceful. Thank you. Thank you mr. Chairman and mr. Solomon to surf. In particular it to go on a foreign assignment in a far off and cold place. I acknowledge that you will be filling makes use ambassador john has been hazard with distinct distinction and honor at that post and i anticipate that you will do the same. On october 21st, and it announced by facebook that russia continues to troy and interfere in our election process by spreading false information and such and facebook took down a number of posts. So it is very clear that there has been no change on the part of russia in terms of their intent to interfere with our election process. Can we do change a behavior in this regard. What options do we have so far the actions will be taken have been incapable of dissuading them. From their maligned activity. Do you have thoughts about what actions either you can take is an investor we should consider is Foreign Relations committee or is a nation to dissuade russia party of the nation. Iran and north korea support from trying to distort our electoral process which is if you will at the heart how democracy works. Our elections are essential. It requires the confidence of our people that the sparks. He will adore officials. What might we be able to do. We have done by the way, my scene my discussions with members of the committee about this, this is an Ongoing Campaign by the russian government and we think of it in terms of election milestones, and really thinking by the undermining the United States democracy and who we are to divide us. We think of, we view it in terms of election milestones, they view it is an ongoing hyper campaign against the United States and they feel is an implacable adversary of theirs. Aaron unfortunately becoming an adversary of ours. Pursuit sanctions common we have pursued lisa sanctions economic sanctions, criminal prosecutions, we have also,. Those havent dissuaded him. Spak what we have done most recently, which i cant go into a great detail about in an open setting like this, but involves our own tools, not only in defense of our election infrastructure and our basic internet infrastructure, but more forward leading cyber methods both in defending ourselves and our allies and partners and taking actions against those who threaten us. Combining all of that with more direct messaging, to the Russian Federation to the russian government for president putin on down, that if they want to have a more staple relationship with the United States, which they professed to do, and i was with Vice President benson when he had this discussion with president putin last year in november at the east asia peter summit that if they desire that and if they are true to the word they have to stop this. If this is a redline for us and our actions and sanctions in response have to be directly coordinated to that message that is delivered to the russians. That its not just amorphous maligned activity, but it is this particular activity directed by an authorized by the Senior Leadership of the russian government. Carried out by nonstate actors who are controlled by the russian government, that are directed if our country and society and our election infrastructure. Connect the meter to a moment to process plants, nuclear station and my understanding is they have invested is a nation dramatically in a nuclear emotional. Modernizing it and they have also aggressively invested in intermediate range Nuclear Weapons in a way that is contravene our prior agreements. What is your sense of their ambition relating to their Nuclear Weapons program at a time when i think the russians and the rest of the world would hope we would reduce Nuclear Weapons we might have a new new start treaty that might actually produce the current levels. They seem to be investing more in nuclear. Where they headed why. Spak if hit the nail on the head senator. They are investing in Weapons Systems that they would view Strategic Systems that they would view has brought covered by new start. I believe they need to be included in the discussion and walk on a discussion with members of this committee. And Going Forward with russians in advance, but would be the otherwise the lapsing of the new start treaty on february 5th 2021, does at least five brother weapon systems, that we are of, the president putin publicized that video, we are all familiar with, along with relatedly, not just the weapon systems with the Delivery Systems but a large number and a non threat development of manufacture of a large number of lower yield Nuclear Devices that could be included on the system that wouldnt necessarily be deemed a strategic loophole. When we discussed this with my russian in geneva, this past summer, made clear to them that the people of the United States, its going to matter to the president for the people of the United States for him by an icbm that is covered by the new start treaty are some hybrid weapon that the no low yield Nuclear Weapon that destroys denver or salt lake city, off of systems need to be addressed. But thats our strategy jesus to comply with new start. We determined that they have. But to build the subsystems and a large number of devices that we dont really have a lot of transparency with. We dont even know number we asked for. Number of Nuclear Weapons that they have. And they wouldnt even address the question. Thank you mr. Chairman. I appreciate your response in regards to rushers in appearance in our elections. Using your words, which i think it has to be absolutely clear that thats an attack on our country. The very foundation of america. Is i pointed out in your introduction him has brought unique to the United States makes russias actions they are doing it in monday democratic countries around the world. We must make it clear that that is a redline. That cannot be tolerated. I also appreciate in your statement your willingness to meet with Civil Society and for our embassy to be a beacon of hope for those that are oppressed. Earlier this month, senator rubio and i offered a letter joined by monday of our colleagues to secretary minasian and pompeo, in regards to russias actions against human rights advocates. In the impressment of opposition leaders. In urging the administration to be more aggressive and protecting those individuals including the use of the sanctions. I want to start is i do with most ambassadors that are being or going through domination hearing in a country that has challenges on attacking human rights. How high a priority will be to promote American Values is a relates to human rights can help to the people of russia that they do enjoy a universal human rights that will be recognized by the United States and offended by the United States. Is the fundamental part, i would consider it a part of an American Ambassador his mission to promote those values and to also. Out incongruity of the fact that the russian constitution guarantees monday rights the russian government, there government is infringing those rights. There are monday ways that we can encourage Civil Society in russia and i wanted to do, is i mentioned to some of the committee i want to make sure that i first is is it said in the democratic vote, do no harm and embracing particular individuals in subjecting them to retaliation by the russian for their association with us but absolutely i affirm the importance of promoting American Values basic human values that we all share not just americans. Freedom of religion and the fact that the consent above the government of republic in the democratic republic is highest forum of government theyre entitled to. Will be taking the challenges that weve seen over monday ministrations. When they are high visible opportunities, some meetings, rarely do we see human rights is a front center issue. Yes we get into arms control, yes we get into canadas them, yes we get into the house because of the world troy to resolve problems. What we sees the human rights is rarely promoted to top priority issue. I believe our mission in russia can help make that more of a reality that these issues are showcased only have those opportunities. Most recently weve had a horrible humanitarian disasters in different parts of the world and is we look for resolutions of those issues, rarely do we hold those accountable for atrocities in accountable for their his actions. If you are confirmed ambassador will you be a champion for American Values not being ignored is we deal with brother very important issues arm control is an important issue terrorism is the critically important that we recognize that we dont build in the answers within the American Values, were not doing a service to our country his National Security. I have and will continue to do so senator if i may offer a couple of examples to not just talk the talk but walk the walk i gave a speech on religious freedom and cartooning in a year and half ago. In the face of threats against me, and a mosque in khartoum. But the value of religious freedom and how important it was for the government which has now changed because of the presidency on a chair, but the importance of that government respecting its Citizens Rights including religious freedoms did the same thing in nigeria windows and appreciate to speak with the nigerian president and roughly the same time of last year. So i continued to do so. Appreciate that may also appreciate that you responded that you would follow the law and your conscious in regards to areas of potential conflict between what monday of us believe the policies of this country and weather this conflict particularly with this administration. And i think that becomes important. We have an appropriation and 20something budget, to counter russias misinformation. The administration was very slow in releasing those funds. Very very slow. We need to get the direct information from our missions. That is in the importance of those types of programs that counter russias propaganda and misinformation. And ultimately we got the her name his release it took a long time. So we want to make sure that admission, our investor in russia, will be giving direct information to us is to the needs and our values and if its a conflict with in the administration, we recognize the sensitivities of that and the importance of the investor to have the confidence of the present but we need to be able to get that direct information consistent with law and your conscious. Yes indeed senator. I agree. Is i said in my opening statement, i will look forward to working individually and collectively with this committee if i am confirmed is our ambassador to russia. I appreciate your willings to serve in a new and very important job is going to be extremely difficult. You will deal with relationship, you. Earlier today. Cyber attacks, whats going on in terms of disinformation. I spent a lot of time on the ukraine issue. We can talk about syria but even today, as we sit here, theres potential for u. S. Forces to be in conflict for the first time in many years. A lot going on. Having certain three administrations now, not the background and the experience to handle that. I like you are going to do it. Im going to assume that you are in the business process i think secretly, you will questions way, in short confirmed. I think are three areas you can play a significant role. One is the information, the engagement center. We passed legislation a few years ago but weve been trying to shore anding. We talked about that, the dod funding. This is not just focus on prussia, its august on this information more broadly. Russia is number one. Let me ask you a box cap, please continue to keep get in can you help us in short the dont have these that we have the funding stable so we can bring the extra pieces push back on disinformation . Absolutely. We spoke to an a half years ago, you may not remember this but the engagement i you make commitments cap. I appreciate that. The challenge that was had has been that was originally creat created, focused on counting actors. Continue that Mission State specifically one sophisticated as russia. It make the job more difficult but justice work necessary. Every shape is to be kept cap on the which is taken for part two month to get. Thank you. We have a unique opportunity given your position. Second, ukraine. We have been them sometimes without object the resolution expect members of this committee or 3000. Its necessary americans know about that is sensitive time ukraine. Told me it has taken some greatest political actions. Conflicts resolved. The Russian Forces from the for areas. In exchange for elections in the east in exchange for some bubble autonomy. The. Im making, i think you having your experiences, understanding this had an interesting rope to flip. Which is to get russia to the table in regard to crimea which we never want to forget. I think theres an opportunity. Then the patient with this in a department with his determination to figure out Going Forward. Are you willing to take on it could be crucial to getting prussia table that this issue could be resolved. Thank you. Russia is the key actor in this. We have to situation we have in christ. Only because up actions. We saw a little shift cannot brush position. We agreed to the exchange, illegally these. I think there hasnt been the followthrough we were hoping for. I would expect u. S. Ambassador to russia would be involved in particular engagement with russia government and corporations with colleagues and the seat on this extremely important issue. Again, my time has expired. We will continue this but you will have the opportunity to play a role in this because of experience. I hope you use the president. To be able to resolve these issues with regard to this. They thank you for your willingness to take on this challenging position at this difficult time opening statement, talk about the principal engagement with russia. I revised the pharmacy and resident physician russia undermines that values of the u. S. Allies it do you believe with which the president purchased our policy russia. He nominated me to be his ambassador. I believe i would be pursuing present desires with respect to russia if i pursue that policy laid out to take on this engagement, can you explain whether or not you to our private meeting with july the 18th with whether i was briefed after the meeting . Yes. Or anytime between then and parent meeting after. Yes, i was briefed by the secretary of state and National Security advisor to the president. The two items i was charged with coming out about the dialogues not leading on request from president putin 20 business dialogue, which has yet to be implemented. It would involve the United States government. The three issues i was briefed on coming out of the president meeting with president putin laster. Did you see the actual notes from meeting . And ambassador colton, i didnt see it verbatim switch site what exactly was back and forth speaking to president s in the meeting but it was only poorly, there may also be metals that discuss priorities for dialogue i described but i didnt see pop metal that summarized the results about results. I was briefed on the outcomes that i should be looking to implement. We think may have ignited, i cant recall. A large number of russian isis fighters are being held in prison audit by the fda in syria. Many remain a large. Russian chairman terrorism test them anyway it exported its own domestic terrorism problem to syria. You agree . Given russias increasingly prominent role in northeast syria following withdrawal, are you aware of any United States efforts to push russia to address the global isis problem . To take back his own isis writers who have emigrated to syria. Yes. Thats a major topic of discussion in the counterterrorism dialogue. We had two meetings. A number of other meetings at lower levels involving fbi, cia etc. The russian government with respect to the foreign terrorist fighters northeast syria has agreed with us that countries who have their citizens who are detained, who left their homeland, but you got land or elsewhere detained in northeast syria. They should take those citizens back to their home countries to be prosecuted. Has russia done . They have. In fairly large numbers. We have the opposite concert. Which is are going to be treated when they get sent back to russia. From my perspective my discussions with the brushes from the are an aggressive agreement with people shot pressure on other countries, particularly victims. What happens to those people and particularly family members who get sent back to russia thats one of the limitations on counterterrorism dialogue. There are limits on how we can work with that because of their behavior. You aware that giuliani opened a Second Channel of diplomacy next the african ukraine. Is sent in response to questions from senator menendez, i was aware that giuliani was involved in ukraine issues, knowledge, particularly in april, may, june timeframe and even to like was focus on his campaign against our ambassador to ukraine. Is at the normal weight they do business . Open a Second Channel . Well, there are examples, going back to history president using people outside of u. S. Citizens outside of that government. To convict messages represent about. So its not, in my experience, unprecedented. I dont know whether i should take more than that. Its also the president s prerogative in the u. S. Government, if theyre sending secretary. To ukraine to discuss energy pictures even though one mission in a foreign country at the secretary of state thats something the president typically do. My time is up so i will stop but i think we probably assume everybody is pursuing the same policies and we have different channels of communication 1200. Thank you. May i respond . Thank you. I think problem when there are multiple parties involved in a challenge for any secretary of to maintain control over u. S. Foreign policy and any government when there are, even within the u. S. Government, other cabinet secretaries. I know from experience in the 43 administration disagreements between the department of defense and department of state, one policy issues. With the child for secretary of state to maintain control of policy. Committee and congratulations on your nomination. Accessible and highly competent and if you have showed yourself with integrity. Im disposed to support your confirmation. I have a question about a series of questions related to control. He identified 20000 area shared concern much of interest between the u. S. And fresh. I think its important i think challenge is disagreements i have, if we can find areas of commonality, i think thats a earlier version believe its in the best interest of u. S. To pursue an extension of a new start. You further indicated that i think that brushing strategy is compliance with starts but all the while to build Weapons Systems. Also develop lower yield Nuclear Weapons. In conjunction with crimea, whether particular updates or conditions you believe are necessary to ensure you start are potent and enforceable as possible . When i say is what i think our position should be, not to be too up in arms the extension of new start today. It expires in 2021. Engage immediately with the russians on not just in terms of an extension but these other systems that ive discussed with senator, we talked about this earlier what role would you play as ambassador . My expectation this, if i am the chief in moscow, i would be consulted and it cant do it to the russian government. In both directions. My expectation is, if we were to proceed with substantial arms control negotiations, that would be major undertaking requiring large bandwidth of resources u. S. Government. The Intelligence Community. Expectation is that ambassador, i would not directly involved as those negotiations proceeded. The most Important Roles of an apostle is to make sure the trains run on time. Have what they need, our personnel and so forth so if you are going to need folk staffing. A functioning network of consulates throughout the country to most effectively carry out that mission. In april 2018, as we discussed in my Office Versions of existing diplomats and consulate in st. Petersburg. What actions will you take to get dark sappy protective work that you need and reopen that consulate so that they can serve americans from . We have an ongoing discussion with the Russian Foreign ministry on these issues. Its gotten to the. Back where our Staffing Levels up to 455 less direct hires. Because of a dispute we have with russia, extends beyond the initial explosion of 60 plus they are refusing to give recessed tooth backed up. We are substantially below 400 people at this. Back. I think the problem is greater then you described. Thats become clear to me two and a half years as our mission. We foster the conflict in st. Petersburg. Consulate in st. Petersburg, we closed russian consulate in san francisco. We dont have plans to allow them to reopen, which was used for diplomatic purposes. Not having a consulate in st. Petersburg, we have for purposes of providing services, we have so Many Americans who visit crews chips is essential if we have a consulate that. Its important to the extent that we can be helpful in that. Im going to submit for the record i series of questions very quickly. I would appreciate if you could respond to the later promote simple yes or no answers. I think its important we protect the prerogatives of this committee in this article one branch. Have you adhered to apple laws governing conflicts of interest . Assumed duties are actions that appear to the outcome of this process . You agree confirmed to appear and testify before the committee when requested by the chairman and Ranking Member . Other committees of congress, we join you and your staff invite deadlines . You cooperate in providing witnesses in response to request . With a preprotected for the briefings . How submit this for the record. They will be submitted. Thank you for your strong Public Service. The white house made public last month introduce you to is not a verbatim transcript. I suggest something was deleted. All transferred to montgomery pershing i saw sandra promote was got via media. Tumor board version. No. Initiated a discussion about investment saying that a boxer from the u. S. , she was back news. We believe this officer was bad news . In her written statement to the house impeachment break, i told her i had no reason to believe that she had done anything you know what the president meant by the statement cheap is back news . I dont know. She said shes going to go through something. She testified before the house, she was supposed because she watched the president conference she had done nothing wrong but she ive been the subject of the campaign against her. Is it accurate. Yes. I was intrigued by who was mentioned and who wasnt. They mentioned giuliani six times. Investor three times, Vice President biden two times, his son one time and robert all at one time. Transcript does not mention pompeo. Taylor for anyone at the state department comments about julie ottovich. He urges the president does it surprise you on my talk the president when encouraged you to communicate with giuliani and burke but not pompeo or taylor for the state department . I think in the context, it was such efforts. Which have been functioning going back to the prior administration. It doesnt doesnt the state Department Work on the . Actually. He expresses interest in this. We dont know the white house was waiting the congress by withholding from ukraine. When did you become aware of that . I was aware if there was a whole Security Assistance to ukraine. With that. In response to request, does not encourage him to reject his defense. He does encourages with juliann. This is a pricing the president would encourage you juliann. The rest of. As i said regarding his secretary bostic, i understand his presence focus was not on project. Is asking about him engaging in conversation but not encouraging communication. Kaminski you should trade with u. S. And Energy Related issues. We dont the white house corrected him in august on trade discussions with. He encourages the president to communicate with attorney general far into giuliani. Does that surprise you . I have to sink into that i believe the president is overwriting that. Are not responsible for less because he saw commerce, trade, energy diplomacy. Other countries for the president is in pretty bad of state to work with giuliani and part rather than the state department, the commerce department, energy, or are. Im not aware of any other country. Let me ask one question. With respect to attorney general far, but it wouldnt surprise me, im not any other instances giuliani. The president calendar just with a phone conversation six days after. You know the president told president putin that the u. S. Was withholding military from ukraine, seven trade discussions with ukraine work the u. S. Was about to collect he hundred Million Dollars in need of related military Construction Projects during that call . I do not believe i was mentioned in the call. So using transcript . No but ive not been told you are unaware my recollection is that it was massive wildfire. Smith there was so much about 55 do you have any Additional Details . Thank you. The acting secretary of state thats a Great Service to our country. Because of the nominated important post, i think we will cut to the chase. We understand. An argument made that the president of the u. S. Was engaged in an effort to leverage u. S. Foreign aid country in exchange for the country helping him go after the political opponent, the allegation that the house is looking into. Were you aware of any time until its broken, did anyone come to you, are you ever aware of that connection that could be alleged . Is that something you were a part of . For the record, i think thats important. I was electric you never heard anyone tell you they would get the money . Not until the recent developments and disclosures from a physical or complete. , i think you cant because i am, deeply concerned we work removed ken ambassador from a post as a result of what appears to be somewhat for elected effort to spread misinformation about that u. S. Ambassador. I would imagine it is wrong for fiber morale. It encourages them to do the same. Be clear, im justifying it but theres nothing illegal about serving removed. They are not entitled to serve that role there is prospered and reassigned officer may not agr agree, we work on guys that you were anyone overseas could be reassigned at any moment. You may decide it doesnt for me to present. The president uses companies is not going to when he cant do is decide that he was a career employee there removed from a Foreign Service trip i was my last question. He was there was no effort to remove them from the service. Exactly one part of my conversation with surface her desired michael and her desire to deserve service the assignment would be. If you, its interesting think about your china, russia was the senior partner in a relationsh relationship. The economy continues to grow. Russia is defined. I think its fair to think that russia is apartment in the relationship between china and russia. Im curious about your views about what is our managing how that plays out. In central asia is the economic unit, frankly its not much. Chinas office with those initiatives. Country can decline, they may feel pride if they dont already. What is our role in the . Was our role in central asia with word. As we discussed yesterday, most countries are extremely geopolitically. Their location for any number of reasons. Our counterterrorism for example, dissolving conflict in afghanistan on terms favorable to the u. S. , i believe there is competition between russia and china. Want to be involved, ive met with the five ministers from country, this would have been last year before Un Security Council session on afghanistan where they participated. I met with them to discuss her interest. Interest some of the countries they feel squeezed between russia and china. It is important if we do have a role to play. Thank you fred. We could consider nomination the u. S. Ambassador to the european union. Which dont want to ukraine. According to statements by multiple officials including lieutenant, you bring expert besides National Security as well as other involving in efforts ukraine president. Ambassador reports ukraine leaders deliver eight specific investigations to secure meeting between the president. In response to menendez, you think it would not be without values for a president to solicit a presentation to a political rival. Have you ever heard of any other president ever asking for government to an american citizen . I cant think of one off the top of my pet but as i said in response to his questions, the president has been focused on corruption efforts the next he would be unprecedented in American History and the presidency . I dont consider myself competent to enter to my knowledge, i am not aware of that. Which is not to say it hasnt happened. As ambassador to russia, but individuals political interests ahead of the National Security, even political interests of the u. S. . Even if requested by the president . I would only implement the president s Foreign Policy and National Security interests of the u. S. Took you would never compromise america if the political interest as my part of my present position to the u. S. Constitution. I received information that don resigned, they have made a decision to exit the tree which permits notice over the entire territory to collect data on military forces. Check this information with our allies. Do you believe in returning this is in the interest of the u. S. . To my knowledge, the u. S. Has not withdrawn from that treaty. The u. S. This month is sharing the open skies commission, 1500 open skies treated like. Do you believe is in the best interest of the u. S. . Need to be National Security interest for withdrawal pleading. Dont need to be consultations with this committee, our nato allies at other countries that treaty report that. Made a decision to drop . I have not. They all continue participation. The white house consulted this about the dental withdrawal . I heard the same rumors. I inquired as to whether we had withdrawn from treaty. You have been involved in discussions . I have consulted with our investors think of their fusion and conveyed the abuse that we should continue to be members of treaty. The mission part open skies. You have consulted with what is their view. We have seen a consulted with no. The u. S. Is in compliance by this usc was that the russians have not been is respectfully those. We russians exceeding thinking members. As i said before, the commission back towards the treaty. You think the sanitizing which treaty creates interest . It has been interesting to the extent that is not, we need to be transparent about what as she were quickly withdrew from a tree. Its in our best interest, it helped us a lot in our eyes. If you. Thank you. Good to visit with you. I dont think my thief is about others. Lets go back to you treaty which i believe was a one sided. I voted against it. I have Major Concerns that treaty required u. S. And russia to reduce duplicate you give for us. The members of those numbers. We make significant reductions to get limits. If each of us negotiations with russia. The u. S. Is one sided agreement where we are a Party Provided to me reductions when russia is . Absolutely u. S. And uk pretty just security interest of u. S. Russia gg use propaganda that you just and influence in europe. We see this with our nato allies, we try to influence and control over countries. Intimidation. Energy trade. What you see as the ultimate objective . Particularly with respect to your question tightly you have probably just a fire 24 rush work that saturday is information, integration, etc. Significant ukraine where there is progress being done on a daily basis. Its not really welcome there are vaccinations ukraine. They are carried out, work. 13000 people killed. Thats not just hybrid worker we can use to change russia behavior . We talked about today, sanctions esa sections. We work with our allies and partners you. Intrusions the appointment of u. S. Assets and by that i mean cyber. I think his work. They are under stress that from things we discussed was euros on Russian Energy and russias effort to date you to have energy sources. Try a number of initiatives to conquer this influence. They had five risks associated with that. We look at things like this. They created energy, connections. Running up and down. Despite these it seems clear more needs to be in my social status. I think the excess our partners can take to promote Energy Security about what you think need to be top priority . The top priority we have had an opposition to bursting to. Question, reminds me of my conversation about ukrainian dependence on russia gas. In addition he used the same chart. Creation is not betting that complete second pipeline used letter issues we can use increasing Energy Efficiency and other Sources Energy from that data will continue to pray. Thank you. Best average about this question but let me ask it specific to the week that no place in the summer and fall. We now, you testified the state Department Supervision were present the government to open investigations into pots connected to that. Alternative theories about 2016 elections. Knowing what you thought about having to make using the actions of those individuals were,. Was they were doing back then wasnt proper . I have to. Testified previously, the concept of investigating a political rival as opposed to just stick with values consistent with arthritis. They were specifically connected to political rival of the president of the u. S. Your testimony is that those requests for a problem. To the extent that they were big. I would have to question, what has been reported in the press has sent in response to the first questions that investigation asking for government to investigate political rival as opposed to bargain campaign which you engaged in ukrainian those are two different things. You have reason to believe press wrong i dont know they are accurate. For purposes they are just dont know personally. s acting state department so i think its important for me to understand where the authority came from. Did you order taken to coordinate with giuliani is a god who created investigations . I did not. It or the request the investigations . Not to my knowledge. Big john fulton . I will have a basis to enter lisa, i just dont have a factual basis to provide a definitive answer. These are people under supervision didnt ask them to take the activities. You want to get to the bottom of what is your understanding . Instructions for coming from . Instructions, investment is getting secretary from the secretary for you asked them to request these and resignation instructions. Demarco you have the attempt to find out no. I am curious that you wouldnt trying to find out why not . I accepted both, i dont know that. Its not our policy. Its something i worked on for over two despite never with respect to investigation or company or individual. Is he carrying out the business owners. I have respect for the work you have. I am pleased you are willing to take on this assignment but test when you are back of asking questions about what people were converging from her viewpoint to delve into the policy during this period of time. Dont think it was a policy of the u. S. I do think it is concerned but i appreciate the service you country. Thank you. The question that during his jeep with corruption in the human. You but agreed with me that is going on since they left the soviet union. Great meditation. You first absolutely. Also believe everything we discussed, almost half conditions without parking lot. It affects the entire society. Ukraine, does not . It is essential to you. Get a situation where people are taking this transient argument the president was having investigate a political rival regarding corruption. I think you said it was political rival that would be wrong. His political is somehow involved in corruption, because a dicier question. I will be up . We will be dealing with your future. Thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you for service are many different positions are i appreciate your recognition public testimony in our private meeting. Critical work they do every day and becky nomination dedication on Foreign Policy goals and interests are assigned from our politics. No work i think more important than russia. The camping efforts juvenile processes just in the u. S. , there was an article today about russia. When you thank you just franchising that includes that a. We all need a sustainment strategy. Its my hope you will. I government shot on this activity russia. Let me follow up on question you were asked below. Senator king ask you why president that referring president to discuss all issues. He said trump was always on corruption. If it the president struck the reader that my understanding in the subcommittee that funds the control in 2019, yet ministration requested a cut in funding, congress rejected that funding to 30. Demonstration stopped working. I think its likely to restore it to 30. If this isnt right priority by ministration five is fact that any of the three budget he submitted . I think that corruption is Technical Support by the u. S. To bring over to reform. Some of years converging the president to engage in corruption that was that. I think that is the biggest possible. Can we use that one job on behalf of the u. S. But absolutely. Will be placed back on corruption . Im afraid thats also true. I disagree. I think that funding is critic critical. There are hundreds of prisoners in russia rightcenter from has increased the last four years. What will eugene drop attention to that. I believe that rate at which the russian government is partially possessed is increasing, not decreasing. China quite and transparent about what is actually going on in be public about it, i think is the first step. Exporting the russian government you is on positive traits. It was passed this you resolution 81 from a project supported this president pugin working to cover up some of their actions and the assassination. That resolution is government officials raise case if you raising usually . Yes. Is confirmation from government. When you commit to raising that last enthusiastically. Thank you. Id appreciate hearing check. We need a forceful president. I look forward to working with you. Thank you. I get like you as an honorable man. So gets her seventh you have h had, give see xp evil. The ambassadors ambassador to the eu, correct . They were involved in fueling policy that. When you responded to the senator about giuliani. Private citizens, you are not suggesting that what he did was okay or product . I cant our judgment what he did. Im not sure what he was up to. You have no idea what he was doing as it relates to you he was doing something credit i wouldnt say its accurate to say i was alert of the campaign. Did not what us he was doing . I was aware of what he was doing for this purpose. Would you say pugin russia Kamala Harris corruption . Absolutely. Would you say the same thing. Corruption is endemic. You also seem to suggest that the reason these conversations are taking place, money was being held about corruption, is not affect statement . I didnt know it at the time. It was about corruption reform. You can address his statement . My own view, find was being if you asked me i was alert money was being withheld, we had a number of requests why . I did not. Request about Ukrainian Government, Energy Reform and economic reform, all of which was a part. In may of this year prior to this call with the president had, that ukraine made sufficient reform to decrease corruption and increase accountability, in short accountability for u. S. Military equipment. As a matter of fact, that certification by the department of defense in cooperation with the secretary of state, the person immediately above you, but only took place then but it took place prior to that in july 13 at 2018 and then of course may 23rd of 2019. So the deity had already certified the ukraine had made progress on corruption, what was left to review. Sooner or purposes of what was being provided to ukraine, that assistance wouldnt be diverted or corrupt purposes. In fact i recall a conversation with secretary matus back in 2018 about those issues. Sooner so i did you do to dislodge the her name. Nothing. What if you do to dislodge the her name. Smack to dislodge the her name, i did not take personally take any action. Did you call on me. Sara had conversations about or be in my perspective wasnt there were a number of programs that were being funny was being held for including the northern triangle countries. My focus at the time in august and into september, one of the funding for the northern triangle countries. I was leaving it to our ambassador taylor and so forth. I was informed that you want to testify before the House Appropriations subcommittee on northern triangle. Im appreciate that, im focused on the position for which you are nominated. Smack in there with data was told i was handed a note informing among brother things, that the ukrainian assistance i believe it was september 11th, had been, the lid been lifted. To the record, the undersecretary of defense directed to you as the chairman of the committee may 23rd, 2019. Mr. Secretary just a couple of brother final questions here. Is it true that russia illegally occupied and can you do conduct things in eastern. Crying. It is it true that 13000 troops have been killed. Is it true that russia conducted isnt it true that russia assaulted our elections using Cyber Attacks and information. Is it true that you russia illegally part of your dues territory. Is it true that racially illegally occupies part of georges territory. Yes indeed. Is it true that russians campaign involves assistance. Spak im sorry. The russian bombing in syria, also involved bombing innocence. I believe so. Weve established that the kremlin behavior continues to oppose National Security threat to the United States. Congress saw it on to address it to the gathering americans adversary sanctions act. The test 90 in the present cited below. So does it help or hinder u. S. National security when present truck characterizes russias is the hope. United States Government hasnt accepted that its a hoax. The United States government his position led by President Trump is were dedicating it to stopping it. We acknowledge the curse and is ongoing and we are doing all we can to stop it. Doesnt help or hinder National Security President Trump jokes about election independence with president putin. As i said, i am devoting a huge amount of my time as deputy secretary to counter russian caliber interference that is at the direct from the presence. In deterrence russia, pay for border wall. Was a presence judgment. Spak. Heres the problem, going to be staying one set of things based on your testimony today. But we have the his public statements is totally alondra differently than what you are going to be staying. Do you understand the incredible difficult job that you are going to have as a result of that. What i would see senator as you decided the present statement, i would supply information is used in solvent. We expelled 60 undeclared Intelligence Officers in response. With imposed sanctions on probably 350 russian individuals and organizations including four on calf and for election interference. So i think the president s actions speak very loudly in the sick secretary pompeo is said this administration this president is firmly commanding to confronting that russia and all of these areas. Overwhelmingly go sanctions have been forced by the hand of congress particularly in legislation after having sanctions in iran and brother places including russia. In a way that provided very little discretion because in a bipartisan basis there was concern. Finally, let me just ask you this because im trying to find a way forward on your nomination. The department that you help run is troy to block individuals from testifying before congress, something that i find appalling because Congress Article one of the constitution and article two or three article one of the constitution. Ultimately provides is the check and balance on any administration this or anyone. Questions them to choose but do you define congress of their superiors. This department, the letters that up here aim at scaring them at appearing before congress. Is this that dive boat supportive protection that are Public Service deserve. I would see that the actions that the department is undertaken led by the secretaries been on the advice on the Council State department and white House Counsel and direction from the white house. Wise department and prevent employees from testifying before congress. Strict has been laid out an extensive letter from the council to the present, the rationale is laid out there. Understand the houses directing its request to you. Is that correct. Yes. Like to interact letter into the house letter to the secretary. Have you responded to them. Smith doubly so. Goleta was addressed to me but goleta has been addressed, i personally am not, goleta has been addressed to me in the misunderstanding that the secretary has recused himself. Even though these information requests are coming to you, your innocence and turning them over to the secretary. Correct. I had asked that they be sick to me, they decided to send them to me. I finally asked request winter a series of letters in the record by a correspondence between the state department and members myself and letters for myself to the state department all of which have gone unanswered. Plans to be entered. Thank you mr. Chairman. We start by as we observed as we said knees and Story Committee about which the ghost of henry lodge no doubt looks down. I felt compelled to observe that the distinguished senator from virginia is choosing this moment to mock me for his nationals beating my butt back in houston. I will only see that their signature to patients and at this time tomorrow, one of the brother of us will be on the losing side of the wager wearing the colors of the winning teams so i look forward appointed 24 hours from now. My good friends. I cant wait to see how that comes out either way. Welcome mr. Solomon congratulation on your nomination. I am not sure what you didnt state to being sick to siberia but congratulations nonetheless. I never confidence that you will perform and ably in the snow role. Lets talk about some different aspects of russia. Russia as you know is long history of using energy as a weapon. One of the tools that i believe poses a real threat for strengthening russia for weakening europe and weakening america is the nursery to pipeline. Can you give me your assessment of the regional Global Impact of russias north stream to pipeline the construction is completed. I think its going to be extremely detrimental to ukraine. Its going to begin the Russian Federation and enormous lever over ukraine and a hammer that they can you carry onions if the russians cut gas transit to ukraine, ukraine lewis billions and hard, desperately need it for its economy. The president has been as differences that almost on any issue. In urging her native aleppo alloys in particulate germany and not cooperating committing this pipeline has been damage it will do to ukraine we havent succeeded today in convincing them to stop their cooperation. You know this committee has passed by the overwhelmingly bipartisan margin. My legislation was senator shaheen, to stop up pipeline from being completed. But the window for passing that legislation into law, is stopping it, that window shrieking. What would the benefits be if we can finish the job and stop up pipeline from forever taking place. We had this conversation a few days ago about weather weve reached the point where the russians can complete that pipeline because weve been staying for quite some time that its over 80 Percent Complete but construction has continued and theres been a holdup because of environmental reviews by denmark this will not last forever. This will be lifted soon. My concern is i may have already reached a point with the russians will have the resources and ability to complete pipeline no matter what we do in which case, imposing sanctions now wont stop pipeline and will oppose cost. Maybe a substantial cost. But it wouldnt stop up fine. I dont know that we have reached a point go yet. Off of the directions have to rely on outsourcing. Bc dont have the resources. I think we need to discuss with some experts on that weather what they have left to do and the little stuff thats left to dave, weather they can complete let them in their own. They would have to really reposition assets that they are using elsewhere but given the amount of the majority that theyve in vested in and the majority of what theyve completed already, maybe there already ready to complete that. Is shipped. Restriction options on the ability to defend ourselves, doing very little to modify russians. The trumpet ministration withdrawal. And it started slated to expire in february 2021. Does the Administration Believe continue to parents is in the new u. S. National security interest or will we let the treaty collapse. Our position is that we should engage with the russians now in discussions about including those weapon systems which you and i have discussed previously which are not covered by the treaty which president clinton has been publicizing. The problem that i foresee is if we were to simply extend now that went out touching those brother systems which the russians have been investing and. Where tiger hands and not limiting where the russians see their growth in their Defense Budget and their strategic assets. One final question shifting to another treaty. The open skies treaty with russia. Ive long been skeptical about this treaty. In a couple of years ago, offer language in the National Pets authorization act conditioning u. S. Compliance with the as i have offered my language on the aba concerning you start as well. What is your assessment of the effectiveness of the open skies treaty and in my view, it exposes vulnerabilities in terms of opening ourselves up to monitoring in a way that this again is anything for russia against russia quite a bit. Whats your assessment. Gonna strike and go into a great detail in an open session like this but our Intelligence Community assessments on that very question. I think most concerned about with as if we were to reach a decision that informed by Intelligence Community analysis and so forth, that it no longer was in the United States interest to continue with the treaty, we would need to engage in with the administration a consultation process with this committee and with congress and with our allies as we did with the inf treaty. The most important thing in my opinion, the what we did his recall from the inf treaty was it immune entity from our nato allies that russia has been and is in violation of the inf treaty. We need to do that as well make sure that we didnt do damage to our Nato Alliance and explain why we were withdrawing. If we were or that decision were to be made for its thank you spak everything is available and secured facility and i would urge everyone to take those look at those. Regardless as this discussion goes forward i think everybody have the information in hand. I got here, when a discussion giving you an synergy credit for the work on the north stream to and with all due respect, i think regardless of weather or past the point of no return or not, i think bill needs to be pursued as you know, unite or troy to find a path forward i will we found a path forward. When troy to make that happen i think everybody is almost everyone is in agreement with that. Just a few more additional questions. We testified earlier has not that went out precedent for the president to use individuals outside of the state department to conduct conversations with Foreign Governments. That is true. His long history of present seeking advice outside of the state department occasionally using channels outside of the state department and i would argue that there was no precedent for what Rudy Giuliani was doing which was using his access to the present as means to troy to score political points and the president s behalf with foreign nations but for the purposes of this hearing, really really giuliani does not actually see that it is actually simply that the direction of the present he was acting at the president of the state department. In fact he says, you know who i did it, at the request of speaking about his conversations with the brain, the state department. I never talk to ukraine official until the state Department Called me and asked me to do it. So did the state Department Call Rudy Giuliani and ask them to have these conversations with ukrainian officials. My recollection is as a reference to his communications with kurt volker, the state department and a special representative for ukraine and perhaps even on an as well but i think in particular my recollection is that quote is in reference to communications hes had with her walker. You know the secretary asked Rudy Giuliani to carry out any diplomatic efforts prince mckay did not and im not aware that the secretary did either. So back to the extent that your reporting back into individuals, you believe he is referring to the others weve discussed. Kurt volker in particular. Students in question, i want to support your nomination and you know that i believe in you as a public servant, having a little hard time understanding your reluctance to make a conclusion as to what the policy of the United States was over the course of the summer because youve seen the july 25th transcript in a written testimony using the stacked and i hope you conducted your own investigation. So let me just sort of ask the question i asked earlier again. Missing understanding, the policy of the United States, to press the Ukrainian Government to conduct investigations and debridement and attorney deaf theories about the 2016 election interference. I understand that you may have not been part of these efforts but is now is that your opinion that that was the policy of the United States having read the transcripts and having all of this brother evidence. See the president has been clear about their not being, the phrase been used at quid pro quo. We are talking about the Foreign Trade im not asking about that. Interested in talking about the policy print was the policy to request the specific related to bereavement and related to relitigating and looking into alternative theories about the 2016 election. Short, my understanding is that there was as part of our general anticorruption of poli policy, in ukraine from reading the transcript or the summary of the july 25th call, that looking at is the chairman mentioned, that gas company and board member and u. S. Person, involvement was certainly mentioned by the president and therefore part of this policy, but the president denied that there was any quid pro quo. Smacked you of knowledge that president has ever raised any brother specific corruption investigations that he wishes ukraine to undertake brother than investigation related related to joe biden in the investigation related to the 2016 election interference. Not specific investigation but he has been emphatic about the need for any corruption reform in ukraine. Estimate forward on how to proceed as any senate, i just dont buy this idea that there was this general and trusting corruption given the fact that the president is only raised to these issues on the phone call but i have no doubt that you care about the issue of corruption. In russia and ukraine in the region i hope you pursue vigorously as you is testified to be for this committee. Set thank you senator murphy, i have no doubt the old good chance to express yourself on the floor this time. Thank you. Should the astros win tonight in game seven, i will be touring astros gear. Should the nationals win, continuing the already historic, he will wear nationals here and surf my texas barbecue in china rear. I would rather win than this but either way, a group of hardworking staffers will be having cuisine are above their station in live. In the feel good about that. Is it permissible for me, off of ive been here for almost 30 years. [laughter] the pending world serious world champions of the boston red sox. [laughter] spak im afraid this nomination cant proceed. Couple more questions. With related questions with you that went out residence lindsay brought sanctions, President Trump didnt see talk to the state department, he said talk to really Rudy Giuliani. Brett military aid present trump didnt see talk to the secretary of defense of the investor, he said talk to it attorney julie brady giuliani. Your explanation for that and you are not President Trump, your understanding of it is about corruption. If the call was about corruption, i guess i cant understand the president staying talk to attorney general bar. But why Rudy Giuliani. I think Rudy Giuliani is the president s personal attorney and friend an outside advisor to have talking to bump up ukraine including about his discussion previously about our mission to ukraine. What you stated as far as you know, has brought pursuing a policy for the state department as far as you know. If to the extent they was coordinating with the state department, to score 90 with individuals that have been do you know weather he had coordinated with them. Adult. You have any knowledge i havent spoken to part about that. Soon it was the state department paying Rudy Giuliani. Was the u. S. Government paying him. I would be surprised that i have no idea. Do you know weather he was being paid it all by the present trump or the campaign or any brother party. No i dont know. Were you involved about any decisions about turkey decisions to the turkish purchase of Russian Air Defense systems. Yes. Will think the sanctions have been put in place after the s400 purchase. Explain your involvement. Ive been involved for a long time now, this deal has been pending for quite some time. Working with then secretary mattis and chairman dunford and now secretary esper and and chairman of and along with my colleagues at the state department is 60 monday of those, the u. S. Has withdrawn turkey from the fd 305 program because of the as 400 acquisition. The question that is on the table is a sanctions and weather this is the significant transaction. I find it difficult to characterize it as insignificant given that we sanctions china for purchasing along with bureaucrats perverting the as 400 system. Were still working to deal, and it reached a point yet, is to convince the turks to undo as a nato ally, to undo the damage theyve done already by taking the system on board before becomes operational is that your testimony today that theres still a difference in opinion weather that purchase of the as 400 of the significant transaction. I dont know. We do see it if it is a significant transaction, sanctions come into play periods only if its not, is there a difference of opinion that you are aware of within the Administration One of purchase was a significant transaction. I havent been involved with the statutory language i am getting my impression from mike participation. Has one more question. Last week in response to a question from senator menendez, the state department serious ongoing different testified he was consulted prior to the president s decision to withdraw u. S. Troops from the curtis reason in northern syria. You know if anybody at state department was consulted prior to that decision. I believe the secretary minimum was involved. You know for certain based on conversations. Ive had conversations about it and was certainly, in the case with anybody involved in syria policies was wellknown the president s desire to withdraw troops from syria and this is been a topic of discussion going back years. Including december 2018 secretary mattis resigned. Thank you. That went out my sincere thanks, i think this is been a productive discussion on the focused our view on some of these issues and your help is by shoot really appreciated. As a business on friday. Including members to submit questions to that record. Thank you for your service and your family for the sacrifices they take. This meeting will be adjourned. [background sounds] [background sounds] [background sounds] booktv has coverage of the recent book festival starting saturday at 2 00 p. M. Eastern. Gather discussions on violence and is common to see in the area of gun violence, we need more research. In the assumption their implicit in that statement is that we dont really know what works to reduce gun violence. That is not true in relation to urban gun violence. Urban gun violence is the most studied and most recklessly studied forum of gun violence. American Foreign Policy. It doesnt really get in with donald trump or begin lastly, it began with the fact the United States have never, sincere in uprising began, known what is actually trying to accomplish there. The environment. Cole a lot of asthma skimming from that and colace as arsenic, lead and mercury and all of the things you are talking about