Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hearing On The Trump Administrations Syria Policy 20240713

Before i begin i like to take a moment to remember my friend and our chairman, Elijah Cummings who we lost one week ago. Like others on this committee at the pleasure privilege to call elijah at my friend for almost 20 years. We worked the many issues that confronted congress. Mr. Cummings has bequeathed the legacy of Compassionate Service to those families in our society who still struggle to receive the full promise of the american dream. While he had an abiding faith in the goodness and kindness of humankind he was firm in his commitment to use his many talents and his power of position to weighin in behalf of the disenfranchised and reduce the suffering that he saw in this world. Elijah lived his life in a meaningful cause, a cause for justice and liberty and equality for all. We in our nation would be well served to follow his example and spirit had presence here on this committee will be sorely missed. Today we will examine the trump and ministrations decision to draw u. S. Forces in Northern Syria and abandon our kurdish allies. As everyone knows how little more than two weeks ago President Trump had a phone call turkish president or the one we dont know exactly what that transcript of that revealed but we do know the white house released the following statement about the call and i quote it here. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long planned operations into Northern Syria. The United States armed forces will not support or be involved in the operation and United States forces having defeated the isis territorial caliphate we will no longer be needed excuse me, will will no longer be in the immediate area. Nowhere in that statement is there any indication that he tried to delay president s plan of operation and indeed i think it could be interpreted as the statement facilitated that incursion. Nowhere in the statement to the white house condemned turkish invasion and the destabilizing effects it would have and no where do the same and warned about the hundreds of thousands of civilians displaced only that the United States military will no longer be in the immediate the sanity. With that President Trump ceded virtually all of the ability to influence events on the ground in Northern Syria. He abandoned our allies in the kurdish led Democratic Forces who for years were our partner in the most effective fighters against the zoning state in iraq and syria. As a result they will no longer be able to apply continue terrorism pressure against isis which will almost inevitably allow them to reemerge and equally concerning is the power vacuum left by the lysates is already been felled by the Syrian Regime of asad, russia and iranian militias. The indifference to loyalty and life decisions on the phone with resident erdogan will result in disastrous consequences for the u. S. National security and has undermined u. S. Credibility in the world stage. According to one kurdish fighter quote, america will never again be able to count on the courage to fight isis we dont trust america anymore. This is important so let me read the kurdish again. We dont trust america anymore. Trumps betrayal of an ally and what it says about america will elect Severe Damage to american diplomacy, military strategy and Foreign Policy for many years to come. Dont take my word for it. President trumps most ardent supporters and former and ministrations officials have credit score decides decision with Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell says the withdrawal has quote, a grave mistake. Senator Lindsey Graham has called the decision shortsighted and responsible with former secretary said if we dont keep the pressure on the isis will reemerge. Its a given that they will come back. Last week 129 of my republican colleagues voted alongside two to 252025 democrats to oppose President Trumps decision to withdraw u. S. Forces from militant syria. To date we have the great privilege of welcoming [inaudible] executive president of steering the mechanic counsel and former special forces officer who fought alongside our kurdish spf allies in Northern Syria. We are also joined by bernice from save the children to provide an update on humanitarian situations in syria as well as immediate [inaudible] director of policy and research at the group and a former diplomats. We are also pleased to welcome director of the cato institute. A quickly just takes note for our members as you have noticed their company by a translator and it will require additional time to interpret questions and answers between members in the witnesses. I intend to hold members to the usual five minute time limit for questions i will allow extra time at my discretion if i determine that fairness requires granting a member additional time whether that member is democrat or republican. Id like to again thank our witnesses for your willingness to help this committee with its work. The chair and organizes the Ranking Member for five minutes for an opening payment. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Likewise i present your comments about chairman cummings. Obviously he and i and many on this side disagreed on many issues and i will say he was always very respectful and i have many conversations with him outside of this room and he was always respectful and will be greatly missed. I appreciate your comments. I would appreciate having this hearing today. Likewise i want to thank our witnesses for being here specially i want to think mr. Palmer for your service to our country. Regretfully, many members today cannot be her because of the House Majority having created a scheduling conflict and mr. Chairman, as you know, House Majority has scheduled a deposition as far as the illegitimate impeachment inquiry and as a result the House Majority is forced members to choose between this hearing and the deposition. Despite the importance of this topic i believe the choice was unfortunately very easy for other members to make. Arbitrary rules imposed by german chef have created an unprecedented secrecy around the inquiry and the next week members will be able to review the transcript of this hearing and followup with additional questions at our leisure. But the deposition and this partisan impeachment inquiry is not so cut and dry. The rules on who can access and how to access deposition transcripts are unclear and constantly changing. Members of this committee sought to review transcripts have been turned away. For those few lucky members the democrats will let you get the transcript, chairmanship has now insisted that will give members have democrat staff babysitters and who knows what other rules are coming. With changing roles shifting targets and unprecedented lack of chimpanzee the democrats impeachment upwards in the man demand report again members hold this to attention. Back to the topic today. Id like to say the videos emerging of individuals throwing rotten food at u. S. Soldiers is important. Both minimum and put everything on the line to further the goal of a safe and secure syria and should not be treated that way. The beginning in 2011 syria has been in a state of unrest and it began with the arab spring which led to a war all of the Previous Administration stood on the sideline. Thenpresident obama through his now infamous red line. President obama said it syria dictator asad was to use chemical warfares it would warrant the United States military intervention about a year later when asad did use chemical weapons on his own civilians the Obama Administration gave the keys to russia in negotiating with syria. While there are now fewer chemical weapons in syria syria has gained significant influence. When he used chemical weapons in 2018 President Trump to not bulk but instead wants to military strike of the significant sending a clear message to the assad regime that these chemical offense will not be tolerated. The continued efforts by the Trump Administration has led to the defeat of the isis caliphate and a significant weakening of islamic extremism in that region. A few weeks ago present dropped announced the decision to withdraw troops from the border between syria and turkey. The role of the u. S. Military is to protect vital u. S. Interests, not to be a unilateral nation for armed insurgencies against a nato ally. Previous administrations actions from from arming insurgents in latin america to intervening in iraq in libya have proven unilateral military action can indeed the problematic. In this situation it is no different. The syrian Democratic Forces of u. S. Backed insurgency is comprised of members of the ytd, the ytd is a sponsor group of the pkk. If the u. S. And turkey registered foreign terrorist organization. Its no wonder why turkey is uncomfortable with this alliance. An article titled why is turkey fighting the kurds in syria in the New York Times further explains the connection and mr. Chairman out asking endless content to submit this for the record. Without objection. Thank you. Sure everyone in his room as well as the Trump Administration as a whole is devoted to the safety and security of syria and the surrounding region but moreover, since were spending today discussing borders i think its appropriate time that we recognize that the turkish Syrian Border is almost 6000 miles away. While no question this issue does merit review its concerning to meet the democrats are more focused on the border crisis 6000 miles away then the crisis at our own southern border. During fiscal year 2019 alone customs and will patrol apprehended almost 1 million migrants at the southern border. Its an 80 increase increase over the previous year. Many having criminal records. I continue to call my democratic colleagues to provide our lot was meant many women the resources they need to solve this crisis. Again, mr. Chairman chairman i want to thank you for this hearing and each of our witnesses. I look forward to your testimonies and questions i had and i yield back. I think the gentleman. Just as equivocation rules for access to hearings and depositions have not changed. At least in the past ten years. Continue as they were under the republicanled house and those rules are still in place today. Hopefully i would beg to differ but this is not the time. Members are not allowed to see those pins gets. We are honored to be joined today by executive president of the Syrian Democratic counsel, he has been part of the kurdish struggle for freedom and democracy since the 1990s with particular with particular focus on womens rights. She joined today by a translator. I would like to thank you for being here and for your sacrifice on behalf of the International Community in the fight against isis. We are very pleased to welcome mr. Marty palmer, graduated from the United States military academy at west point and served combat tours in iraq and syria. He was what they tell us macarthur Leadership Award for outstanding leadership. Hes not pursuing his mba at columbia business school. Thank you for your service. Thank you for helping this committee with this work. Director of programs of research and in her ten year career as u. S. Foreign service served up a medic tours in brazil, pakistan, colombia, washington dc and the u. S. Mission to the united nations. She is also a graduate of new york in diversity in the Harvard Kennedy school. We are fortunate to welcome the senior director of the International Humanitarian policy and advocacy at save the children. She worked for several years as the advocacy and Campaign Director where she oversaw the International Campaign of humanitarian crises, trade, aid, climate change, food security, health, education. Oftentimes they are not recognized for the work and tech guys in the way they said so i thank you all for being here and your service. We like to welcome mr. John glaser, director of Foreign Policy studies at the cato institute, his research include grand strategy, u. S. Foreign u. S. Foreign policy in the middle east, rise of china and the role of status and prestige motivation and International Politics but he is been a guest on the variety of Television Radio programs and is the coauthor with [inaudible] of fuel to the fire how trump made americas broken Foreign Policy even worse and how we can recover. Mr. Glaser, thank you for being here today. We we look forward to learning from your policy. I now like to ask the witnesses to please rise to be sworn in and include the interpreter. Raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm that has money to about to get is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you got . Let the record thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have all answered in the affirmative. Microphones are sensitive so make sure he please pull them up so you can be heard. Without objection your written statement will be made part of the record and with that you are now organized for your oral presentation of your testimony. [speaking in foreign language] translator i like to think the campus for their support and for this opportunity. [speaking in foreign language] translator my condolences for your colleague. [speaking in foreign language] came from syria. And there was a heavy fight ongoing for years. [speaking in foreign language] translator we have lived in that war moment by moment and at the same time by going for the future. [speaking in foreign language] translator our people with christians we build a society together and liberated 30 of the syrian land. [speaking in foreign language] translator all faith in our religion are free to express themselves freely. [speaking in foreign language] translator syria is christians and muslims. [speaking in foreign language] translator we continue to live in harmony after isis. [speaking in foreign language] translator in the fight against isis we lost 11 fighters. [speaking in foreign language] translator 25 people were disabled in the fight. [speaking in foreign language] translator we appreciate American Forces for their fight for us. [speaking in foreign language] translator after they liberated these areas they had not give opportunity to show what we worked for. [speaking in foreign language] translator all this increased threats over us. [speaking in foreign language] translator we had a good relation with the u. S. Government enforces. [speaking in foreign language] translator in terms of fighting against isis but also realizing our hopes to build a democratic future will build stability in the region. [speaking in foreign language] translator they told us if we continue fighting [speaking in foreign language] translator we been together to work together. [speaking in foreign language] translator we will be in syria until the political solution is achieved on the ground. These other promises. [speaking in foreign language] translator then we came under attack and they told us we have no power so we cannot help you. [speaking in foreign language] translator we were told where our forces exist we wont allow attacks. [speaking in foreign language] translator for those reasons we thought American Forces and trusted them. [speaking in foreign language] translator we believe we thought when there was an attack in the region we do not expect them to fight on our behalf but we were sure they would do that. [speaking in foreign language] translator we put our hope to coexistence to live together with the people in the region. [speaking in foreign language] translator one day before the attack we were under assumption that the airspace would be closed by the u. S. [speaking in foreign language] translator the established we agreed upon to prevent attack of turkish state. [speaking in foreign language] translator through our forces we destroyed the trenches on the border and we put our heavy weapons for joined forces that have already stopped. [speaking in foreign language] translator unfortunately, after the phone call we were told it would be open in our forces would be withdrawn from the border area. [speaking in foreign language] translator we were shocked and puzzled. [speaking in foreign language] translator we did not hope this would happen. As a result of this we found out the fight with turkish state and we defended ourselves. Turkish government came and fought against us. [speaking in foreign language] translator forces us to fighting against isis [inaudible] without any reason. [speaking in foreign language] translator we never had any threat against the turkish. [speaking in foreign language] translator as a result of this war around 300,000 people are displaced. 250 people killed. The majority of these were kids and children. [speaking in foreign language] translator. People have disappeared, unaccounted for. [speaking in foreign language] translator moreover, a city was devastated for mortars and airstrikes. Our forces were killed. [speaking in foreign language] translator open excuse executions took place. [speaking in foreign language] translator the turkish government has used a crime against humanity. Theyve used chemical gas. [speaking in foreign language] translator until now were not able to do this inspection because we dont have means to get perspective. [speaking in foreign language] translator we very much want to stop this war. We were always told we cannot stop it. [speaking in foreign language] translator as of now 32 kilometers in death death are occupies by turkish states. [speaking in foreign language] translator there are many ices under the name of [inaudible] [speaking in foreign language] translator they swear that they will behead you. And they chant the same slogans of isis. [speaking in foreign language] translator they are called opposition but they are different form of isis which are put forward by turkey. [speaking in foreign language] translator there were some attacks against isis numbers but many escaped. [speaking in foreign language] translator from the familys 600 people escaped. Six front isis fights and two in belgium. [speaking in foreign language] translator ten more escaped but we dont know what nationality they are therefrom. [speaking in foreign language] translator theres a big risk that the safety of international and the u. S. Can be unaffected again. [speaking in foreign language] translator the guy who carried out the new york attack is under detained by us now. [speaking in foreign language] translator there are some turkish government that will take care of this and this is wrong. [speaking in foreign language] translator our geography is now divided. [speaking in foreign language] translator the group Group Controlled by turkish government is technically us to drive. [speaking in foreign language] you have to instruct the witness that we are over time. [speaking in foreign language] translator one of her female friends, a buddy, was mutilated and they sat on her body. Understand you have photographs. Id like to make a motion that her photographs are entered into the record but i understand numbers have been provided copies but if you are willing to submit the originals we will put those into the record. [speaking in foreign language] translator we suspect chemical gas use. [speaking in foreign language] translator christian kit has been murdered and the displacement of civilians. [speaking in foreign language] translator this was a female fighter in her body was mutilated in this photo. And five. Translator these are the soldiers that the turkish government is claiming to be the opposition. [speaking in foreign language] thank you for your testimony with mr. Palmer youre not recognized. Chairman lynch, thank you for inviting me here today. My name is Martin Palmer and appear to testify to my personal experience working alongside the syrian Democratic Forces during my time in active duty. Its common under u. S. Policy strategy in syria. By way of background after graduating from us point in 2009 as benign dollars years in the army as a special forces officer. During my military service of his awarded a medal and two bronze star metals and at 2018 recipient of the general Douglas Macarthur Leadership Award. Ive served three display deployments. I left active duty in july of last year. And 2017i spent seven months in syria serving as the commander of a special forces attachment and drain the supplement by team of green berets partnering with the sdf of which the kurds comprise a large portion. Through combat operations as operas and the commitment, dedication and resilience of the sdf. Their efforts proved critical to our ability to combat the Islamic State. During the coming patrol of the frontlines team and i received perspective fishing on fire from all positions. Upon receiving contact the sdf soldiers fought alongside the attempt to locate and destroy the enemy positions. Within minutes sdf area commander right my position with additional soldiers and was by my side during the fight even as bullets peppered our position we were able to illuminate the threat. This day invite mentality is not what i witnessed in other partnered forces during my previous departments to the middle east. This is the first of many experiences in syria when i observed commitment, bravery and dedication of the sdf is a partnered with mike detachment against the fight of the Islamic State. The kurds were an effective Partner Force and made remarkable progress and track the state and liberating several key islamic town including the software claimed caliphate of rock. The kurds raise their hand to fight these allstate went to many did not. I witnessed the successes on the field regularly. They fought with discipline and resolve. On numerous occasions when the sdf meeting with arthur areas recently liberated the syrian villagers cheered and even cried. A moving testament to the immense contrition the sdf have made to liberate people from the horse of life under the Islamic State. The success came at a cost. At the of cassidys were regularly and the tragic occurrence with thousands of soldiers giving allies for this mission. During month operation these allstate fighter detonated a car bomb in one position of the sdf unit with the most partner. The car bomb killed eight soldiers and wounded close to a dozen more. My Team Provided first aid for the wounded and many had gruesome injuries. I saw the very real and powerful way the magnitude of the sacrifice the kurds are making in the fight against the islamist state. Moreover, they continued their offense the next day to mistreating resiliency and commitment that was prevalent throughout my deployment. Our relationship was a true and Critical Partnership and just admitting benefited from their tactical abilities the sdf could not have been as successful against these allstate without our support. During one operation fighters were in with a few hundred yards of our objective and started received sustained fire and suffered several casualties. They do not have the capabilities unilaterally suppress the threat and were prepared to draw to prevent further casualties within days of hardfought gains. However my team is able to provide the necessary combat power to ensure the safety of the sdf and successfully press forward with their mission seeking is a state position. This was a medic of our relationship with the sdf and a Partnership Partnership built on mutual trust, support and necessity. These examples are a few of the many instances that illustrate how valuable the partner for mike detachment. Sdf should shoulder to shoulder and fought courageously and effectively time and time again. Their loyalty and dedication is pervasive in every operation. I will always value the relationship my team had with them and will never forget the sacrifice he made to beat the islamist state. Thank you again, mr. Chairman. I hope my testimony will help shed light on what is like to work shoulder to shoulder with curtis soldiers to seven months of my diploma to syria. Thank you. Thank you for your service and your willingness to testify before this committee. Mr. Torres went out recognized for five minutes for a presentation of your oral testimony. Thank you. Thank you for hearing my testimony today. Today i will emphasize the perceived consequent as of our policy reversal in syria on our ability to defeat isis. The president s decision to withdraw u. S. Troops from Northern Syria which allows for Turkish Military invasion is a Foreign Policy that has plunged syria further into chaos. Beyond lives lost, deal political conferences the scar on your desk ability the decision is a gift to isis. With an hours of the announcement to isis suicide bombers attacked the base of the syrian terracotta forces. Isis social media has really marked the sdf over the last week calling it an abandoned american ally and isis websites supported 27 attended attacks against the sdf in the weeks following the invasion compared with an average of ten attacks over over each of the previous three weeks. Leader of isis emerged as the followers to free jihadists from detention camps in an attempt to replace its breaking the wall campaign. In august 2019 respected general report concluded there was a resurgence in syria and [inaudible] while they that was considered the end of the physical caliphate remnants of isis still exist. This includes sleeper cells. The group maintains a footprint to a bevy of groups. Should be greatly concerned about the conditions of the prisons for 12000 isis fighters are being held by the syrian Democratic Forces. Sdf made clear on before the troop withdrawal that they lack the capacity to contain the fighters. Following the turkish invasion sdf has been departing these positions leaving the presence honorable. There have been no concrete plans about how the prisons will be secured and now the night states has abandoned the kurds by willie beck them to do us any more favors. Isis bulletins civilians are escaping prison camps. Last week they had knowledge several isis militants crossed into iraq and according to belgian authorities five other citizens are no longer present in sdf controlled locations. Over 800 people at the leader with isis largely women intolerant have escaped a camp in north syria. A whole camp hosted 70000 people is proving to be a briefing ground for isis is pro isiss of the site summarizes our radicalizing and organizing in the camp. The overcrowding, like a security and squalid conditions of the camp recipe for disaster. We know how this movie ends. Tens of thousands of iraqis were held in u. S. Citizen centers including [inaudible] and these overcrowded camps on next generation of terrorists emerged. These prisoners became the future but hold or put soldiers of isis. The groups leadership breaking the wall skipping with thousands of fighters. The issue of Overcrowded Detention Centers sponsored another wave of terror and was relevant again once in syria. They maintain provinces from syria to indonesia and across the middle east. The group has planned or inspired heinous terrorist attacks globally including in the United States. Isis ability to organize to not be underestimated and the risk of prison escape must be taken seriously. U. S. Policy change in syria has empowered our adversaries and betrayed our allies. The Kurdish Forces have been the u. S. Most trusted partner inviting isis over the last five years. Kurds lost 11,000 fighters in the battle and taken up the immense response fully regarding 120,000 people in camps and prisons across syria. The presence of u. S. Troops on the border even small number was intended to both support the kurds as they engage in fighting for us and to serve the tripwire to deter attacks. I conclude by highlighting three recommendations. First, military options should never be the only solution to conflict. We need diplomacy with the United States should encourage turkey to pursue dialogue with the kurds. Second, isis is researching and we need a plan. We must mitigate the risk of escaping isis fighters to ensure they cannot cross borders into neighboring countries. To do this we need to have open lines of medication with the powerbrokers in the region. Third, western governments must take responsibly for the citizens and isis prisons and camps. They should take their citizens back home where they can undergo risk assessments, have prosecution and engage in reintegration efforts. Ignoring the problem will only fuel the cycle of marginalization and grievances and attract individuals to join terrorist groups in the first place. In closing, u. S. Troop withdrawal from syria is selfdefeating and damage to the american ability and walks back much of the hardearned gains made by the sdf and the Noble Coalition to defeat isis. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and afford to your questions. Thank you ms. Torres. Ms. Romero went out recognized for a five minute presentation. Thank you i first want to think chairman lynch for this hearing and the opportunity to speak to the community in crisis that is devastating syrian communities. Humanitarian needs nearly 2 Million People are in need of humanitarian assistance and 5 million of these are children and impact half of all children now living in syria have grown up knowing nothing but war. Say the child has reached a and in the refugee hosting country we have seen how to suffer in the conflict in great physical and mental wounds that may be irreparable. Was close closing and minimal support for Mental Health we are witnessing in real time loss of a generation. Remarks will focus on three topics, northeast syria including recent facilities and issues related to foreign families went to isis, northwest syria and finally the rising threat of force interns. In the past two weeks more than 160,000 people 60000 people including more than 70200 have been displaced in the fighting and many are living in camps and informal settlements which are short on communitarian infrastructure. Despite the recent ceasefire announcement you seen continued hostility and they have been killed and injured in the fighting and schools have been attacked and other services have been shut down. While we and others are able to continue our programs in some areas this new instability is severely strained our response with many India Offices and programs suspended or closed down. Theres much of u. S. Government do to help improve the situation. Primarily the u. S. Will that diplomatic leverage to past four cessation of hostility and protection of civilians. Immediate needs such as medical care and food must be a priority to u. S. Other donors cannot forget about the medium to longterm needs including Mental Health and Psychosocial Support as well as access to education for the hundreds of thousands of children caught up in the violence. Further, gator the situation is the presence of thousands of foreign women and children with perceived or real affiliations with isis. In the wake of the conflict with isis in syria and iraq a Large Population of foreign nationals have been living in this placement camps across syria. 12300 nationals have been present in camps and this includes 9000 children for more than 40 different nationalities and more than 8000 of these children are under the age of 12 or more than 4000 are under the age of five. Save the children is operational which houses the foreign women and children and the conditions having challenging. Even for these events critical gaps across all sectors including health, education and protection. Foreign children trapped in syria are victims of the conflict much be treated as such rather than look at as terrorists. Many were brought or trafficked into syria or were born there over the course of the conflict. Given the lifethreatening dangers they and their families face save the children calls on government to repatriate them to their country of origin. We sense the u. S. For its policy of repatriating american citizens in these camps and for pressing other nations to do the same. To ensure Child Protection this must take place as soon as possible is still feasible. We cant forget about the mess and needs in northwest. In 2019 conflict has raised the cost [inaudible] with 1 Million People are in need of humanitarian assistance half of which are children with save the children is calling on all parties to deescalate the conflict in the note. The one Security Council resolution 2165 which ensures cross borders humanitarian access in syria from turkey and iraq must be new to this leadership is key to ensure the violation of fundamental human rights and International Laws is designed to protect civilians does not become the new normal. Finally we can forget millions of Syrian Refugees. Refugee response funding needs have doubled over the past five years and the last must continue to allocate robust funding for the rest of the response and press others to do the same. The u. S. Has been cleared about his opposition to force returns and lets continue to stress the returns of refugees or asylumseekers should be volunteer and dignified. One hundred years ago save the town founder said every war is war against children. Syria is no exception yet before recent events the world could barely into notice with the dangers that was headlined the conflict in syria will again pull off the radar screen even as the impact and syrian children continued. Sustained Political Engagement by market leaders and support for humanitarian response will be needed and more than ever. Thank you. Thank you, ms. Romero. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the subcommittee. Thank you for you for the privilege of having me here to speak today. The United States became track the modern syria early in the civil war and the focus was on undermining the assad regime by providing aid to various armed opposition groups. Primary security rationale for our increased involvement in syria in recent years was to destroy isis and all the remnants of the group remain that objective has largely been met and makes good strategic sense to withdraw. Ill say at the outset the manner in which the administration initiated this a draw was clumsy and injected unnecessary risk in instability. I will address that more in a minute. The justifications for a continued u. S. Military presence in syria has expanded well beyond the initial reason for their deployment and went from defeating isis to protecting the kurds to push back against russian and iranian influence in the country and serving as a buffer to protect israel from regional enemies and helping usher in a post assad syria and securing oil fields. Is a classic case of mission creep. It amounts to letting the United States slip further into a middle east war without clear objectives, without serious scrutiny about what is achievable and without a public debate that includes a vote in congress authorizing the mission. There has been a number of contradictions in our syria policy. We knew undermining the assad regime in creating power to its independent portions of the country might generate more instability and live in a dangerous rebellion and we continued to pursue this policy. We knew there were substantial numbers of jihadist terrorist then the rebel opposition groups but we continue to eat them until recently. Turkey is a nato ally. We have pursued a Tactical Alliance of convenience with the kurds to battle isis. Aiding and arming and allying with two adversarial entities is not only a contradiction of sorts but seems destined for an inevitable and better transition away from that. It was a mistake to have offered or implied any promises to the kurds that we were fully prepared to deliver. An autonomous kurdish state in Northern Syria is implausible scenario given the situation on the ground and i think it put the kurds in more danger. With regard to the process of this withdrawal. The president ordered this change in policy completely outside the interagency process and that makes for a messy implementation. The administration failed to employ sufficient diplomatic muscle to help carryout responsible withdrawal. The deliberate we should have had a deliberate dialogue with turkey for example. Long before any announcement to draw as distasteful as it may be the us probably shouldve worked with the mask is to facilitate a formal arraignment with gerd to allow syria to reassert its sovereignty over those territories and not prevent the kurdish incursion and attack on the kurds. This would have helped assuage their concerns while also deterring further action and we could have engaged in this arrangement months ago and in fact the report suggests that they discouraged those talks and yet that arraignment is what is falling into place between the rashad regime and i should mention that the former commander of u. S. Central command general [inaudible] has signed on to that approach and the United States probably should have stuck to cooperation with russia both u. S. And russia want stability and prevent the reemergence of isis both have reasons to oppose turkish incursions into syria and moscow have leverage leverage over damascus and we have leverage over [inaudible] and these are opportunities for the pharmacy to take place but did not. Bottom line is that active and skillful the pharmacy wasnt the best tool for serving u. S. Interest in syria allowing a smooth as possible to draw. Going forward the United States should pressure turkey terrain from further tactics in syria and washington should lend quite support to negotiations but not seek to be an active participant. The economic sanctions the congress is prepared to impose may send an appropriate signal but our largely symbolic. Decisions alone for the report track record of altering the behavior and no one should expect them to have much tangible impact in this case. Should the United States determine the future department to syria is necessary for its entrance its incumbent on this body to openly debate it and ultimately to vote on authorizing the use of force. A unilateral decision by the Second Branch to keep residual forces therefore we deploy at a later date is subject to Congress Constitutional prerogative and more recently the powers act. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. To put a finer point on that i do know for mistress testimony in senate that James Jeffrey whos the special representative for the syrian engagement and the special envoy to the Global Coalition to defeat isis was not consulted in this decision so at this point id like to welcome my neighbor and colleague. We welcome her to the committee and id like to welcome the gentleman from kentucky and i would like to make a motion to allow both ms. Presley to participate and to engage in questioning when their time arrives but without objection, so ordered i know youll myself for five minutes for questioning. A number of us on this committee had been to all of the syrian refugee camps going back to the early days of conflict between assad regime and some of the rebel groups in aleppo and elsewhere in syria. We traveled to up in the north to [inaudible] up by we went to beirut where many of the refugees fled and also to [inaudible] which is the camp in jordan about 85000 refugees and what do you know about that was all before the turkish incursion that we are now witnessing and is there any data or information you have with respect to the Current Situation and what may have been exacerbated by the withdrawal of u. S. Troops and then the subsequent invasion and incursion by doctor sic troops. What has that on to the flow of refugees to these camps and elsewhere . Your microphone. We dont have hard numbers yet. Finally, the situation changes every day. Basically what we have seen his movement from the populations that were in the area weather that has been violence and further south and they have been setting up informal shelters in taking over schools in different buildings and have very overcrowded conditions with difficulties delivering services they are in reaching people they are. Most of the humanitarian agencies have had to drop their International Staff and syrian local staff has made active and has been delivering services to the moving pipe relations as much as possible and they are operating in a very secure environment and some of them have become refugees and decided to leave for fear of the changes that may happen and fears of conscription and fears of violence because of what is going on. Lots of Publishing Movement and weve seen thousands of people moving into iraq and we think that the camp that was set up there will be at Maximum Capacity and if the float is continuing at this level. Lots of strain on the services and movement. Thank you. We did have a chance to visit with king [inaudible]. The jordanian schools on the border have gone to two shifts so that dirty knee and kids go to school in the morning to early afternoon and then syrian can kids come in in the afternoon. Its amazing that the dirty indians and in beirut the similar situation where local kids go to school in the morning and refugee kids in the same school so but in homage pressure. The first thing we have to recognize is if we dont take people back to their home countries we are only read redoing the cycle if we dont take citizens back and provide them with justice in their own countries. What i understand theyve taken their citizens back with two to five years imprisonment. You can change your walls and legislation that would allow for smoother transition to rehabilitate and integrate. My time is expired. So to speak in the testimony since that time under what authority as the u. S. Utilized to stay in the region . It authorizes the use of force against al qaeda up to the attack and anyone that harbored them. Later on the associated forces came up and weve targeted under this bill groups that have nothing to do with 9 11 and are enemies of al qaeda were t woule your opinion that the withdrawal of the troops ordered necessary under the current Legal Framework . There is a problem that would quadruple the number of troops on the ground. Its certainly True Congress has not done its job. I dont think anyone here would question that. We are dealing with humanitarian needs to and peacekeeping efforts on a longterm scale. If the u. S. Troops are needed than Congress Needs to authorize that. It would be used in order to defend threats to the territory or its people. But peacekeeping missions through the un might be different in that situation. In terms of other legal authorities we need to Pay Attention to the strategic justifications. There is a substantial academic literature although youve done a good job with isis and coordinating things on the ground, it proves that when theres external power it involves itself in multiple parties and has the effect of prolonging and intensify at conflict. Let me throw this out to you. People ask me this type of question that i think is appropriate here. Weve got some 40,000 veterans here in america home ice, some are up to 6 million or so children, family members who are hungry and get theres this constant helping of people in other countries that need help. I am not trying to belittle that at all but the fact of what we have here how do you respond to that . Its important for this government to have as a priority its own people. And what is more incumbent upon us as to not make things worse rather than to sort of do no harm rather than take it upon ourselves to view every problem. The other problem is when we do find it worthwhile to go abroad to fix problems and help people we often have the bad habit of seeing things only through a military prism its like it is our only tool when in fact diplomacy and aid have a lot going for them and can do things at a cheaper cost and with greater humanitarian benefits. Okay. One other question, my time is going to run up, going back to the Previous Administration on the chemical weapons red lion and the inaction that came as a result, what kind of impact. Its taken to be a justification all kinds of u. S. Military since they pay close attention to the actual circumstances at hand and not other location situations so the effect it woul fact it wouln wrong for the United States to bomb for the chemical weapons attacks to pretend like there are Deadly Weapons and unjustified the best military action which by the way at the time didnt have congressional approval and would have been illegal in the International Law that implements time is expired but lets ask unanimous consent to enter into the record of the Current Issue of the economist magazine to cover read can trust Trump America the consequences of betraying the kurds. The article inside the magazine goes into greater detail and the subtitle there is removing american troops from syria triggered an invasion betrayed an ally and trashed the National Interest in americas abandonment taps the century of global duplicity. The second focus will be mr. Palmer. Im a huge fan of the special forces not to mention from the 82nd airborne that you and your career must point to the macarthur award is for thos howr those in the middle east stand and fight with you should be testimony that is heard by everyone on the committee. And this is one of the few bipartisan issues because the vote was overwhelming its a recent policy reversals of huge mistake that is a breakthrough thats what a vital ally the kurds have been in this policy reversal is a deeply felt they trail. I hope the recent announcement of the ceasefire will be permanent otherwise they face one of the largest armies in the world, the turkish army he repeated in his opening remarks is it just the turkish propaganda when they link to pkk these are deep issues. It goes without saying most of our colleagues recently thought the Defense System that is not a nato friendly move, bu that is t a u. S. Friendly move. Im hoping the problem is we have given in to the russian Foreign Policy in the region and perhaps have even built a land bridge from iran to the heights, so that to me is what is at stake and to abandon our best friends and fighters for tragedy. So, mr. Palmer, i dont know if you care to elaborate since you are the only person that has had firsthand military experience for what its like they were a very reliable dedicated Partner Force literally every combat operation whereby our side fighting alongside us and that sort of commitment to my team and commission as a whole is something that we really valued in our success would we be successful taking off without the help of the kurds . I cant speak specifically my experience over there, yes. Did the database over 11,000 deaths and we had six . Greatly valuing the security that they provided the team and that added support made my unit safer over there as well. Thabut that is a disproportionate sacrifice on their part and they suffer 11,000 casualties and we take six. I see that my time is expired. The jungle man from arizona is recognized. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you for the service. We certainly appreciate that. Would you agree with me on the following. It gives you good policy and politics would you agree on that . Im not qualified to speak on policies. Would you care to weigh in on that process that gives you good policy and good politics . It seems reasonable to me. , back to you again i just want to reiterate and go through this in my mind to make sure ie second 2013 when obama decided to strike, 2013, congress was actually put on notice, were they not . Succumb at the time, the Republican Leadership and this year under democratic leadership va ums could have been brought up that quick. So, let me get this straight. We keep hearing everybody talking about the constitutional wall of congress. Would you consider that leadership from both parties let them down . Yes. Interesting. Seeing that they are the ones that dictates the process. Do you believe that a longterm effort by the military is required in syria . I think that we need to stay vigilant about whats happening in syria and iraq with regards to the resurgence of isis and continue to monitor the situation. I think that the withdrawal of troops out of syria at this time is a bad idea, especially the way that it was done without any notice or any preparation. And it allowed for the kurdish allies to take the brunt of the conflict and its also representing the position where we are no longer in a good position to assess whats happening with isis. We have isis militants and those in peace camps that are escaping. I have limited time. How many servicemen were actually removed from syria . I understand about a thousand. Lets say 28 will move further back. 28, that is the number we are talking about. Would you agree with me that is the number . Theres a number of things going on, so the initial order from trump to relocate about the number that was reported as 50 to 109 of the president announced he was to relocate within somewhere in syria and then things unfolded and it seems to be now the policy to withdraw all of them with the exception of maybe 200. It seems to be, but what we know of is theres 28. Let me go back through this. I have got limited time. World war ii we had a number of allies, did we not . Yes. Was one of them the Ussr Soviet Union . Yes. And what did we do after we won that war . Did we instantly try to help the soviet union . Excuse me, did we try to help them . Know, pretty quickly after the war ended, we engaged in mutual suspicion. The cold war happened, did it not. Yes. Can you tell me a little bit about after world war i, the europeans idea of breaking up the middle east was there at one time a proposal for a different stance, kurdistan was one of them . My understanding of the history is that there was a discussion at the time, but it didnt work out that way. Let me ask you the question once again how long have we been fighting on this piece of sand . The United States . No, no. The war of all these people in the area, how long have we been fighting . Which one are you referring to . All of them. We have been fighting. Has there been any results . There is a number of different conflicts in the region and you have to speak up and specifically to say anything meaningful about them i think. So let me ask a question. We have fueled the barnstorm at the present, but we have a stalemate right now. Does the analogy during the same thing over and over again expecting a different result insanity . That certainly applies to the policy. Wouldnt it be nice if we tried something a little bit different . I would hope so. I would say maybe it is a little awkward way that this has turned up that wouldv but what if it s out to be something that can work out . That would be to everyones benefit, but i think that the reversal of the process where trump orders to withdraw and then we scramble to fix it with diplomacy should have been done the right way around the first time. I yield back. The time has expired. The gentleman from vermont is recognized. Think you and i want to thank the witnesses. Your country has suffered so much and for so long and our hearts go out to you. I want to raise the question about how this happened and it really goes back to mr. Glasser. Thertheres a number of people n the other side of the aisle who have a view and i share it that we should not be in as many of these longterm conflict as possible. But, i want to ask some questions about what the consequences are of the way in which the president of the United States acted with utterly no nose to the kurdish allies. Thank you, mr. Palmer, no notice to the state department, no notice to the department of defense, nobody. We are seeing the creation of an unnecessary and totally avoidable humanitarian disaster. Thats the concern that i have at this moment. So, some of the questions i have are about to us in that band that is affected by the turkish incursion, and i will ask you, you might have the best statistics of other people think. Ho cant. How many people live in that area that is subject to the turkish and persian . Its difficult to estimate. I have seen the numbers in the millions, but my colleagues may have better numbers. How do we not know before the president went in there, how many people would be in the line of fire . Do you have any idea what the population is in that area . Know, congressman. Ms. Ahmed . [inaudible] on the border people are leaving. Translatortrans translator [inaudible] what i think i understood you said 160,000 or so people have been displaced. And this means they are not in their home. They went to bed the night before the president made a phone call anthephone call and r that, they didnt have a home, right fax where did they go . So, i think some have gone to camps, some have gone into some have been injured. We dont have the camps to accommodate them. They are all overfilled already. Mr. Palmer, one of the extraordinary things about our military is the capacity to do the logistics, to plan to execute the very complicated mission whether it be logistics 101 before you get any action that is going to displace 160,000 people that you have some idea where they are going to go. I dont think im quite to speak to the military strategy as a whole. My mission was more focused on countering Islamic State operations. I appreciate your discipline, but if you are going to do something where 160,000 people are going to have to leave their homes and you feel some responsibility because of the action that you are allowing or taking you are going to make some arrangements. I will ask you this, mr. Palmer, you spoke about in fighting the forces in the extraordinary band of brothers situation that you had with kurdish allies there are also fighters that are standing up to that monster who was in that area as well. Correct . Most of my operations were specifically i know other groups are out there but my most specific. There were other fighters that were standing up against them and it was a brutal fight. What is the peril to the fighters living in many of these cities now that the russians in the regime do you have any apprehension im very critical of the way this was done the innocent lives are lost and that isnt subject to being washed away because it is realistic. What is our longterm policy that the fault could be described all the way around to take action where in one fell swoop with no consultation, no forewarning we betray allies that have been with us and we leave innocent people at the mercy of people that are going to get them. I dont get that. Digitally from texas is recognized for five minutes. Thank you for being here and sharing your story with us. I was wanting to see could you tell us how many nations the military is deployed . We have some form usually special forces of u. S. Military deployed more than 150 countries effectively the whole world. More than 150. Okay. We have bases in about 70 or 80 countries, but those are larger contingents. And could you touch on some of the partners that play in the region that just briefed general history . Partners in the region the players in the conflict in the region. I think the important thing to understand about the specific issue is that turkey has long had a tense relationship in the kurdish population in the southeast and there have long been kurdish over the border back in 1998, they came to an agreement where they agree thats not allow any crossborder kurdish cooperation and direction of operations and it worked effectively. My understanding is that moscow is using that agreement as the basis for its negotiations with turkey. And is it true that we have been in this conflict arming went with the both sides of the conflict . Well, yes, arming many sides in the conflict. Especially early on in the process before the kinks have been worked out. Unfortunately, we cooperated with our arab gulf allies and delivering aid sometimes legal aid to the rebel groups and that got into the hands of some people that we should want to keep arms out of. You touched on this but could you briefly again explained the concept of the mission and how it applies in this region . In the sense of what was our original authorization and being there and why the troops deployed and did they accomplish their mission and what authorizes them to stay their . In general, it is very easy to insert a u. S. Military into the situation and it is much harder to get them out because when the conditions change, new objectives arise and you know, as the congressman was saying, there are risks inherent in any withdrawal and a change in policy, and so syria is one of the messiest conflicts o nastiee planet and getting out is very difficult unless we are very and what is the authorization . There is no legal sanction for the u. S. Military troops in this area. You mentioned concerns about the uprightness of the withdrawal. Would you say that this was the right thing, what was right and maybe how . I think it is in the u. S. Interest to disentangle itself from most of the conflict if not all in the middle east. We should be more clear about the interests at stake in the United States had not to go willynilly into these conflic conflicts. Sorry, what with th was the resr custom . Authorization. Right. So, we need to authorize the use of force. Its just Something Congress has been distancing device to do and the executive branch historically is willing to avail itself of that. I only have a minute with a couple more questions to get through. A lot of the testimony today was written of this before the news of the day. A very developing story. A couple of weeks old. I was happy to hear a lot of discussion among the witnesses about the importance of diplomacy and today it seems like the news is breaking in which diplomatic efforts since the withdrawal are having perhaps some effect. One month ago today that president was at the un talking about how any person in the countries of the world people of faith are persecuted, and it is when you sit in our position, your heart goes out because you wish you could help everybody in the world as we know we have limited resources and we also have a constitutional obligation to. Could you explain when it comes to military activity, how the constitution defines us to prioritize the process flex well, the constitution gives congress the authority to determine the nations involvement in hostilities abroad and the executives short of dealing with an imminent threat that he has to preempt, the president directs those in attendance to decide when they act, which is unfortunate. There are a lot of things going on in the world. I have a narrow conception of what the military should be used for. I think that it actually does them a disservice to deploy them in situations that dont rise to the level of a serious threat to the nations security. The gentlemans time has expired and the gentle lady from massachusetts is recognized. Thank you mr. Chairman for holding this hearing today and for waiting so that i could participate. In Tumultuous Times like these the Critical Role of the congressional oversight cannot be overstated. Once again, this administrations blatant disregard for the humanity and dignity of the worlds most vulnerable is on full display. Over the last several days, we have witnessed the bloodshed, displacement and overall humanitarian crisis that can result in the reckless selfserving decisions by this administration. We have heard about the military and National Security implications of the administrations removal of u. S. Forces. However, this equally important experience in the agency of our kurdish allies whose value cannot and should not be measured solely by their contributions to the u. S. Interest. Based on the National Security expertise, how would a diplomatic approach on the front end pair up with the strategic troop withdrawal have avoided this violence in the first place . Thank you, representative presley. First off i have to take a step back. I am a former diplomat and i participated in the policy process. Under both administrations. I participated in have been on the other side of the administrations leaders having discussions and debates on the Foreign Policy and on discussions with what happens next for the assessment of intelligence and of what is happening on the ground something to the local stakeholders. I think that right now what is happening is a lack of the foreign process and National Security process and so with that in mind, i think that this entire decision has been barred with a lack of an understanding of what is happening on the ground, so it is difficult for me to say what should have happened but what i can say is that there wasnt a policy processor bounprocess around whe happened. Your Organization Save the childreof save thechildren is of helping those that are now displaced due to the humanitarian crisis. How the increase in stability in northeast syria affects the ability of organizations like save the children and others to operate in the northeast . That depends on how things develop. But right now we are facing the possibility of the supply lines, the roads that we used to get supplies into reach the populations will be so insecure that we will not be able to reach a certain populations. We know that our National Staff is very concerned and we face the possibility that they will themselves become refugees. Some of them already have and we will be faced with a smaller workforce. We face the possibility of existing camps where people are able to arrive becoming overcrowded. The sanitation services, the Water Services being inadequate to reach the population. We face the prospect of not knowing where people are and not knowing how to reach them and even if we do know how to reach them, not being able to cross the violence in order to reach them, so it makes an already volatile and physical operational environment even more volatile and more uncertain and our mission to reach the most foldable children that much more challenging. Thank you. I want to focus on another nonmilitary consequence of this abrupt withdrawal. The key component of the defeat by this campaign is to help provide local communities with Stabilization Assistance to enable the displaced persons to safely and voluntarily return to their homes. According to the state department, stabilization can include efforts to establish the security, access to dispute resolution, deliver targeted basic services and establish a foundation for the return of displaced people. Would you agree with that characterization . Yes, i would agree. Can you briefly discuss how they support the usled stabilization efforts in northeast syria . Libra by supporting the local administrations in that respect to support the local administrations. The return would not be allowed. That includes rehabilitating or reorganizing society. We have had some certain programs. The turkish government attack and destroy these programs. Now isis is reemerging. The region is collapsed. The methods are ongoing and the slaughtering still continues. Under what International Law the turkish government has been using this to affect us and have been fighting against isis. American weapons are being used against us. Crossing the border of another country where we had no threat. Sorry, we are all out of time. The gentleman from louisiana is recognized. Thank you mr. Chairman. Mr. Glaser. Is it a factual statement that america has large numbers of troops in the region on the ground up their . Yes sir. So, when we discuss what is referred to as a withdrawal of troops coming and let me say that i clearly understand america is conflicted on this. We seek a righteous position on this. What we discussed was referred to as a withdrawal of the troops and massive numbers of troops in the region were to be fai it beo state that this is a movement of troops within the region . Is there a chance that the newly established a buffer zon the bus stabilized . There is a chance. Okay. I would like to focus if we could i would like to ask your opinion regarding where we are considering the fertility rate circumstances as a nation with this turkish and serious situation. On the one hand, in order for the american citizenry that we serve ours is to disengage from the unnecessary warfare overseas and on the other hand, we tend to stand by our allies. This is reflective of the conflict that we genuinely face as a body and as a people. So, lets talk about our allies. Is turkey in your opinion conducting itself as according to the nato standards . No. Do you think turkey should be held accountable for any reported violations of the Geneva Convention during the conflict . Yes. Do you think turkey should be subject to removal from nato and show the status be considered as potentially rescinded . Potentially. Do you think it is a tool that could be used to leverage . Yes. Given the very precarious nature of the military engagements in this region of the world and the conflict that we face as a nation regarding our own righteous rule within this ongoing generational conflict. In our opinion left us address how we got to where we are and if you can share with us in my remaining two minutes here how you would envision a righteous solution to where we are. Lets forego how we got here. The candidate that. Whats the answer on how we move forward and advise the american people. America is watching. Medium to long term it makes sense to reevaluate our approach to the region and that includes which countries we are closely y allied with and cooperate with and which ones we are set against. We should have an arms length approach and offshore balancing approach in terms of our military posture. We have Rapid Response capabilities to deploy in the crisis situations from offshore and we should take advantage of that by and large. I think the saudi relationship needs to be reevaluated. They act against u. S. Interests pretty substantially. And for various reasons have been unwilling to comment if you will on turkeys emerging increased relationship including military relationship and including the purchase of military hardware from russia and as of yesterday the newly negotiated. Can you comment on that in my remaining 30 seconds . That is another reason we should reevaluate the reason that we do alliances particularly in nato. The habit has been to just add more nato allies with the volatility people and friends on facebook without considering how to adopt those regional interests as their allies. Thank you for the verification. In my remaining ten seconds, yes or no. Would it be fair to consider that turkey is really the responsible actor flex they are one responsible actor. I will yield to mr. Chairman. Thank you. Id like to recognize myself for the next five minutes to thank all of the panelists for being here i appreciate your efforts will here today and in your professional experience. Mr. Palmer thank you for your service is appreciated. Thank you for being here and for your service in a very difficult circumstance to both of you. I want to focus most of my questions on the humanitarian needs as they were before and after. Most of us have had the good fortune, while, for the wrong reason to be up to go to the refugee camps and talk to the Syrian Refugees and hear about their reallife dilemmas of walking and leaving everything they do in a worse situation. I dont think most americans, at least i wasnt until i went and had that experience realized, and most americans dont realize the history and the delicacy of the relationships in the middle east since at least world war i and the whole question whether they are in the state or not, so in all of this delicate Foreign Policy, the human aspects of this i think are getting mixed in large part and the demands you had. So, tell me what the humanitarian needs and demands are before the incursion and talk a little bit about what has happened since. In a sense the demands are the same because the fundamental from the humanitarian community is that there be a cessation of hostilities. But civilian protection be upheld and that humanitarians be given unfettered access to people in need and i think those are the three sort of big policy asks from the humanitarian community. Yesterday, today and tomorrow. The difference is the difference in scale because now we have additional displaced people and a Larger Population to serve and we have more constraints. If there is not a permanent cessation of hostility in the area, we well as i described earlier struggle to continue to provide services to internally displaced people and refugees. We will have bigger funding needs. We will face different crossline challenges, you know, supply lines from different suppliers not wanting to supply us. We have withdrawn a number of our International Staff. They have certain expertise local staff does not have come as a for instance, Health Services are being curtailed in northeast syria because much of that comes from outside expertise. Within that support which we seem to be a growing need among children especially seem horrific things, you dont have that kind of specialization necessarily locally, and local staff have their own threats and challenges that they are feeling in terms of safety and so the stability of the workforce is also made more vulnerable. It more vulnerable. But fundamentally, you know, it is those three things come the humanitarian access, cessation of hostilities and respect for International Humanitarian law and protection of civilians. I want to focus on the little time i have left if you could add anything. October 18 Amnesty International reported that the Turkish Backed forces were conducting indiscriminate attacks and residential areas and have come up with displayed a shameful disregard for civilian life. According to the Amnesty International, the groups working in the region described the u. S. Withdrawal and recent fighting has created a combination of worstcase scenarios in the northeastern part of serbia happening all at once. Is this an accurate assessment and how do you see this improving or not improving or getting worse . Knowing that the ceasefire is what you want first but after the ceasefire you are going to deal with a world but hopefully allows some autonomous governing for the kurdish, but history tells us that hasnt been that the tendency in these kind of military and balances. For us and whether it is the turks, whichever party the conflict is, the request is the same and it is further complicated because it is an Additional Party to the conflict and yes it has and will exacerbate the humanitarian assistance. Any comments . Many civilians were harmed when they attacked us the city has totally been destroyed. 80,000 people are outside without a home. He had nowhere to go. Its a terrible humanitarian situation. It needs serious reconsideration and be taken serious, the situation. Those who want to return and are lucky to have their house still, the talks are not allowing people to return. They are forcing people to be displaced. This cannot be called a ceasefire. It is the war. More people will be killed. Its being told that it is being massacred. But the important thing is they should be protected by constitutional recognition. This administration should be recognizing the kurdish road. All people of the region are in this organization. Its a democratic. Thank you. I appreciate it. The chair would like to recognize the gentleman from kentucky. Thank you for allowing me to participate with the subcommittee. Is it the goal of the Democratic Council to establish a sovereign country for the autonomous country . It isnt yet a part of our project. Within this context we want to defend our government. The local organization set up. They all should be in a different system. There should be local autonomy. Would there be one government and who would provide the military depends of the decentralized government . It can be one or local as well. Those in the region are part of the general syrian forces. Thank you very much. Has anybody in the u. S. Government who you can name that that is also the policy of the United States lacks a to establish that . The u. S. So far hasnt told us. [inaudible] what is the project of the u. S. , this was never for us. We gave them a project. We want the u. S. To support the framework. There was freedom and it was the hope but no promises from anybody in the u. S. Government to establish that. Thank you very much. Mr. Palmer, where did isis get the weapons that you were fighting against . We have to be careful about divulging any classified information. Can you tell us what has been publicly available and where they got their weapons . Where do the kurdish get their weapons . That is part of our United States program. We have not said if youre going to take those weapons away, correct . Not to my knowledge. Can you walk us through the beginning of the civi civil warn syria and what the involvement was or has been . There were protests in 2011, there were harsh responses by the regime. It slowly turned into an armed rebellion because at the time we have been completing our surge in iraq. I have 45 seconds. Can you tell us the u. S. Involvement tax early on we ended up needing the armed rebel groups in syria. And this is before the emergence of isis . Its difficult to say. Yes, technically before the big guys, but of course, isis is just an out go that goes up to fight the forces in iraq so its hard to say that the beginning point would be. In my remaining time i would like to ask how many have been displaced as a result of the civil war ended did they support it and are they better off or worse off now that asad has been destabilized . Speed to a blank mac internally displaced people running from the regime are coming to our regime. Over 100,000. The effect thathey attacked thed became refugees. For example, people are living in their homes but the government isnt allowing them to return to their homes. [speaking in native tongue] translator the families of the groups are set up and kurdish houses. They are killing, kidnapping, seizing properties, burning trees, properties all stolen. So they carry out the policy. [speaking in native tongue] translator 800,000 are there now. [speaking in native tongue] after the recent incursion there are a number of people that are now refugees [inaudible] including arabs that are displaced. My time is long expired. I will yield a minute to mr. Cloud. Thank you mr. Chairman. You said something that i wanted to just clear up. You said that no official Foreign Policy process was followed. Thank you. To clarify, i am no longer in the state department. So, i was reflecting on some of the experiences that i have had in the past. I just want to make clear who does set the Foreign Policy in the country. So, its actually a little complicated right now to determine. Is it . I think everybody in america does the Foreign Policy for the nation. Who defines it for the country . The president. What he therefore also defined the Foreign Policy process . Yes with advising the departments and agencies including the state department. And doesnt he have the option to choose he gets advice from . That is the president s prerogative. Is going on lately among a number of state Department Officials who dont seem to be sure in a way who sets up the policy thank you mr. Chairman. The president often likes to say on the campaign trail we are going to win so much that we would get tired of it and ask them to stop. Mr. President , stop. There are kurdish allies of ours that are dying in the streets because of your decision against the advice of those around you to pull out of syria. The only winners are isis, syria, iran, turkey and to attend. Weve already talked about the president s decision and how it would enable the return of isis. We have seen reports of that. President from ceasefire deal with turkey it failed to hold in those parameters it was so unclear would be almost impossible to enforce anyway. In fact testimony from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee yesterday confuse the us delegation and to negotiating the saison with turkey. Yes my colleague is right as the arbitrator so then turkish president agreed to remove Kurdish Forces from the syria turkish borough border making to do in the key powerbroker so what can you tell us what that reaction is to the deal that took place yesterday quick. [inaudible] translator up with the kilometers up to turkey that poses a serious threat to our security. And there has not been any democratic changes so far. And with that same mentality and the turkish and russian patrol and a regime is a very dangerous situation for us. And then they let turkey attack you. You have seen the tv coverage of being overrun by Russian Forces how does that make you feel quick. I will only talk to my experience im not necessarily qualified to speak. Im not asking as official capacity but someone who has served the government and our country in a patriotic way, how does that make you feel quick. I will not testify other than experience. On behalf of the center and as an american is difficult to turn away from those allies to protect us from those terrorist threats from isis and iraq and syria. So to happen without a processor without policy. Thank you for having his hearing. It repeats the Foreign Policy mistakes covered up by those involved and those that will support this present it is disheartening to all of us i yell back i would like to thank all of our witnesses majority and minority witnesses your testimony. Thank you for being here for traveling such a long way to provide that perspective that only you could provide. So without objection all members will have five legislative days i will ask the witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able we are adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]