It is my great honor to be here with t 14 my friend and someone who is a big part. Your most recent bestseller the witchhunt which is a fascinating read that tells us that we have been going through since 2015 misses a follow on to your bestseller , the russia hoax that was a number one bestseller. You are off to the races youre already number three. Its great to be with you. Thanks for having me. When i first heard the president use the term witchhunt in that tweet. And fake news that the election was rigged those that spent my professional life to recoil because they are bold phrases. But you borrowed this phrase for your book. White quick. Its very telling. What people forget about a witchhunt is there is no real which. But this overwhelming irrational desire to believe witches exist is what happened with an astonishing aware of smart people convince themselves that the president create committed the most noxious crime there is in the criminal codes. Treason. Treason is a conspiracy with Vladimir Putin hatched in the bowels of the kremlin to steal the 2016 election. And based not on a shred of credible evidence. The book explains how now we know through testimony of those involved they never had any plausible evidence in 2016 and nine months later when the special counsel was appointed they still had no evidence in those violated the regulations authorizing the appointment. And i explained in the book of what struck me is truly amazing it was made by rod rosen sign Rod Rosenstein but not the law that vengeance he named the special counsel because he was angry with the president and emotional in an act of retaliation he appointed bob mueller because one guy got angry and he knew what he had done was wrong. The day of the appointment is confronted in his office what he had done. His abuse of power and violation of regulations. Peak hours behind his desk and plovers am i going to get fired . That tells you he knew what he had done was wrong. If he had gotten fired earlier we could have avoided the drama. Go back to the whole idea of donald trump pre presidency. His relationship with russia. I still have flashbacks into the run above the republican nomination there was always intrigue about donald trump made by russia or bailed out by russia so where does this come from quick. It originally began with Hillary Clinton early 2016 she began to pepper her speeches with references to trump and putin that trump could be a kremlin marionette. Host did she believe that or that it was politics quick. Did she get it from cia director john brennan . Who was already beginning to investigate and any potential ties with russia he is described as the instigator of the witchhunt he put together the Interagency Task force that grew to be the foundation of the russia hoax and investigation and peter struck who is the head of counterintelligence for the fbi point person. We dont know if something came from the rich imagination of Hillary Clinton, or john brennan are both. And James Clapper was involved who turned out to be the leaker and i explained those in the book but the Hillary Clinton campaign of the dnc paid for russian disinformation that was composed by Christopher Steele. The amazing part is that he puts together the anti trump dossier licketysplit within the course of ten and 14 days from being hired. That is impossible. The first memo of the dossie dossier, thats the kind of information that would take months if not years of working sourced information on the ground in russia and he had not been in russia for more than ten years progress almost as if he picked up the telephone and called the kremlin and said give me something, anything if its true or not about donald trump. In the end he simply said russian disinformation with little tidbits of truth. But that was just Public Information anybody could find on the internet. Did Christopher Steele or brennan did they use allies to handle this in these dark spots that they could wash their hands that the information was dredged up to stop trump . The cia under john brenna brennan, they are not allowed under us law to spy on american citizens. They are prohibited. But its strange how they are able to. But they did and are outsourced to foreign governments and Foreign Countries. They were able to do are some key people in the trunk campaig campaign. They were minor figures. So they could feed them information to be used to justify their investigation for go they used confidential informants like long time cia asset. And the fbi or cia, we are not sure, since in the fbi analyst under a fake name who is described as a sexy blonde to seduce George Papadopoulos who is a minor peripheral volunteer junior advisor on the drop on trunk campaign so what they did get was intimidating information because there wasnt they got exculpatory information which would then was hidden in the backyard and covered up. In order to understand the rotten stench come i dont like to say that but it comes from Law Enforcement officials and government you have to wind the tape back and go all the way back not to all the clinton scandals because thats a long tape but Hillary Clinton, then gauzy tragedy, and then to keep her servers in their home. Her decision to have the outside the normal process to collect emails and data all of that which obviously becomes quite a scandal as mueller fbi director excuse me comey is the fbi director has to figure out how do i handle all of the scandal. And reading your book again it is quite extraordinary. Tell the listeners the story. Chapter one is entitled the tale of two cases and it compares the clinton investigation to the trump investigation. And it demonstrates the disparity of treatment and the unequal prosecution and justice that is dispensed not just on the law but politics and partisanship. The bottom line is that Hillary Clinton committed multiple acts that constitute felonies. It is abundantly clear. She had a private server it is a violation of the espionage act classified information is stored in her home. If people say that james comey said theres no similar case anybody has been prosecuted they have been for exactly what Hillary Clinton did and they said no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case, thats not true. They have brought innumerable cases he knew what clinton did was a crime in fact 110 crimes with 110 classify documents stored at her home and actually wrote a statement two months before she is even interviewed in 17 key people interviewed and in it he uses the language of the espionage act and was grossly negligent. But then presents that statement to hear his staff and says i want to clear her. But you cant clear her if you found her guilty of a crime so that there is a date where peter struck sits down at his computer with lisa paiges lover stands over his shoulder and eliminates the incriminating words of grossly negligent and actually under the law is identical and synonymous but it sounds different and not in criminal code is extremely careless which was borrowed from barack obama. Based on that he twisted the facts and contorted the law. Host doesnt later he say he was ordered to do that quick. Yes by department of justice headed up by Loretto Lynch who just before comey clears clinton meets on the tarmac on the plane with bill clinton but they just talk about grandkids and golf. But also as a close ally. He elevated her and she eventually became the attorney general. And then she pretends to recuse herself but she doesnt actually. There are people who dont like the clinton two did not vote for Hillary Clinton and get into the whole dynamics of this story brick a lot of people who are watching the show that our supporters that think may be a book with the title witchhunt wants to bring out the worst of what Hillary Clinton did. I feel like theres a lot to write about the why does that matter . She says she does this for convenience. We can understand that. But she jeopardize National Security. Document subsequent to her being cleared demonstrated Foreign Countries obtained her emails. Host that is true in testimony after the fact. Yes in classified documents as well. That jeopardizes our National Security thats the whole purpose of the espionage act. Host when President Trump before he was president his point was she says she deleted emails there is no record of the emails but it is a fact our enemies read the emails they probably have copies. Actually it was ironic and truthful that they did. He did. Referring to russia actually if you have her missing emails let us know. [laughter] obviously it was said in jest but it turns out it was likely true that they ended up in russian hands because they were hacked from a russian server. Those that support the clintons. So what . Its not hot yoga and wedding plans and where we meet for dinner. With all the research you di did, it was quite an Extensive Research project, were there any indications the emails were destroyed because there were Sensitive Conversations like benghazi or as a candidate for the highest office would be political damaging quick. Yes. She was not entire lead tos mom successful to destroy those 33000 emails that by itself was obstruction of justice because congress had asked her to preserve them. And when you defy congress with a subpoena attached, that is obstruction of justice. She said they werent under subpoena she reprimanded the president and that she destroyed it after. Congress has sent a writing and request to preserve evidence. It was forthcoming at that point but it still obstruction of justice. It turns out some of the emails she destroyed turned up elsewhere and some of them contained very sensitive government information. It was not yoga and wedding plans. Are they all public quick. Not all of them. Her explanation is untrue. And yet in addition to violating the espionage act , she destroyed documents that Congress Demanded and when you receive a preservation letter you have to abide by it. Host im a former governor Government Official my wife just recently left Government Service as a second time. You have an obligation to retain records that is explained to you on your very first day on the job. You dont need a letter from congress or the attorney general that to keep the records pretty you are told to meet with you have to. And the reason is because when you work for the administration or cabinet every day is history. And the taxpayer has a right to have a process everybody can see that information. The foundation of democracy is transparency and accountability. And under the federal records act anything you do in writing in the course and scope of your employment as a public official it is not your property it is that government and the american peoples property. There was nothing on the Hillary Clinton state Department Email account. Empty. Zero everything she did in the scope of her employment was kept in her home on a private server. So now you jeopardize National Security with violating federal law she signed a document on her first day in office as secretary of state to say i understand these rules. She received a tutorial here is the log you must follow it. And then to sign two different documents to acknowledge and say i will abide by it that she already knew that from her instructions of how you have to preserve documents and you cannot jeopardize National Security. She knew the rules even as first lady but she ignored the impunity because she felt she was above the law and the rules just dont apply. What is your legal background quick. I was a defense attorney for many years in San Francisco. Most of my clients are still behind bars. [laughter] that is a lawyer joke. I taught law and law school but my point is if look at the black letter law you signed the document which has Hillary Clinton herself as an iv educated lawyer you know what it says you have been through senior government jobs to understand the concept of records because there is a library they know all about records its hillary with a different surname what kind of legal penalties would someone face quick. Inevitable federal indictment issued by a grand jury. And frankly it is a slamdunk case. And its a paper case. Loretto lynch and james comey know this so what intervenes . Is that just saying to the fbi we will not prosecute this this is a matter or investigation quick. We know former officials at the fbi who were there at the time this unfolded testified behind closed doors that testimony has since been released very few journalists have read it. I dug through it all which was thousands of pages of testimony but for example lisa page admitted under oath they were told by the department of justice that no charges would be brought against Hillary Clinton and comey stood in front of cameras said the department of justice doesnt know what im about to do but they knew. They were directing him. So a lot of people believe nothing like this could have happened without the president or Vice President being aware you cannot find proof of that the people just half to understand how high this went. As i lay out the facts in the book witchhunt when the exoneration statement cleared her first implicating her then clearing her. He seems pretty upset about that not emotional but he was fitful. Because it was wording he was not a comfortable mom comfortable because he was so aggressive with the language. It all came to an interview that barack obama had had done several months before on fox news and did another and said the same thing that this was a public instruction i dont want Hillary Clinton to be prosecuted. He said what she had done was careless. That is the language that comey eventually adopted after finding she was in violation of the law of gross negligence. You think the fbi director would listen to the words the president used . [laughter] in fact he told the Inspector General when he was interviewed pay close attention to what barack obama has said he said shes just careless it didnt jeopardize National Security but thats exactly what comey said on julyh 2016 when he cleared her so he was adopting not just the language of president obama but essentially a public order. Host so do you think barack obama sent every signal he could to make sure Hillary Clinton got a pass quick. His method was quite clever and ingenious there will not be a paper trail im not going to tell people at the department of justice what to do but im going to go on television tell everybody what to do and they will hear it. Host so then the story takes a turn clinton incorporates all these aspects of the clinton world are on defense she has committed crimes she has to get herself out of this there is a terrible tragedy of. [inaudible] with this testimony upon the hill its not about the victims its about her. Congress of the republican majority goes through various iterations of investigations of benghazi virchow then they say how many are you going to have how many did they have quick. Yes it was multiple dueling investigations going on at the same time trey gowdy was the foremost but how that money but if not of the deception of the state department about benghazi mu never would have discovered the private server the hundreds of thousands of emails and classified documents were stored. Host what seems to me is the folks that you chronicle in the book the fbi predominately by Mister Brennan and those in the Intelligence Community switch and go on offense that to quote peter struck we have to stop him. They take extraordinary measures to dig up dirt overseas specifically with russia to push toward the Clinton Campaign to make the idea of voting for donald trump repugnant for voters how did that happen quick. There were two parts to the plan one was to exploit the dossier which was penned by Christopher Steele. But the fbi was unable to verify. They tried mightily but you cannot verify something that does not exist that is just a pernicious lie. But the plan was to leak it to the media. They assumed they would run crazy with the story and damage trump politically to ensure clintons election. While its true many members did pick up the story you didnt quite gain traction and resonate with American Voters when he was elected and he was elected insurance policy was plan b and said we have an insurance policy that was the fbi investigation that if donald trump one we will kick it into overdrive and really go after him and make our investigation of him as alleged russian asset public. And they did. They did it january 2017 before he was even sworn into office. Comey, clapper, brennan concocted a plan to have this child that trump tower and selectively give him information about the dossier and gauge his reaction to use that meeting as a pretext to leak that to the media and that is how the dossier was published. Once it was published, the media was off to the races with the russia hoax. Host also seems the troubling part of that is anybody who works for a president exploits information as leader of the free world but even in this case they were only using blackmail like we have a lot of information on you and dont think we dont know it. Very hoover ask like hoover and we that those days were over. But it all the dossier that we read about and watched the indepth reporting, all the work that Hillary Clinton campaig campaign, the deep state that we have come to know, is there any truth to any of these things that donald trump had any illegal actions with russia . Are there any truth in the dossier . Or are they just embarrassing. All of the collusion allegations in the dossier turned out to be untrue. You can read that volume one of the mueller report. The fbi created a spreadsheet of all the collusion allegations and it turned out empty. They cannot corroborate or prove anything. Ask Christopher Steele the author said the information he wrote is unverifiable because it came from multiple anonymous hearsay. Generally that is not allowed in a court of law, double hearsay is never allowed. And this was double and triple hearsay. And we learned with testimony and the emails passed along within the fbi that he himself from these characters in the Obama Administration was deemed to the unsavory character. Absolutely. Too many people in the fbi found out about it and hand it to fire him but they still use him. He goes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to get an application to spy on the Trump Campaign and vouchers for steel as credible knowing he wasnt. They knew that he had lied and so before the applications with Christopher Steel sheet checked out at least one major part as a consulate in florida that didnt even exist and went ahead as the judge with concealed evidence they warned them be careful of this information is totally unverified. The application has at the top if they relied on the dossier. Especially with the deceptions of the court. I worked for president george w. Bush. I was involved in the meetings around Robert Mueller and i went to the swearingin i remember the meetings and they were looking for candidates it seems quintessentially perfect candidate to be the fbi direct director. When did they get on this pass a. Guest it started before it escalated after using any power they could. They can do these things and they are truly elite that can break the rule in the interest of the country. The reason i say that it began before is because right after she was appointed fbi director around the time of 9 11, he gets hauled in front of the court on secret Star Chamber Court and the evidence they had for years had been presenting lies to the court in the foreign applications and he promised he would fix it and to Institute New rules and procedures and actually did a the first time he was considered as a candidate most of the checking that we did was politically a camellia and. He would tell us he loved president bush and the policies of the. I remember they walked out with me in following the case writing this individual that was our experience we think back during those jobs at the end of the administration, the kind of patriot act of 9 11 era legislation. And the clinton folks like what is he doing, to this day a warrior in the communist revolution its pretty comical you stay standing behind the curtains you are not being investigated. The truth was and the document shows he was. One of the reasons he knew he was used to lie to him all the time and at one point he delivers testimony before congress it was the final straw and he fired him and then comey who told the president i dont do sneaky things steals the government documents, and we stand for ththem for the purposg them to the media to trigger the appointment of a special counsel who happens to be a friend, colleague and mentor. That is how a pvs key is and when he gets caught in all of these things i think he you sad 149 times, i dont remember in interviews he pretends he doesnt know the. The. But then the question about the policies and power how do all these people with leftwing policies i talked to several top fbi officials have said he wasnt qualified to be the deputy fbi director and eventually the firing of the acting director. I have espoused involved in politics that had the. But even the question of having a spouse that is so politically active. They are living proof of the principal. The answer to your initial question, he surrounded himself with words i say that they are all on the same page to subvert the democratic process is what they did. In the hunt is to be the donald trump director of the fbi after james comey is left out. With President Trump in the oval office that very day before he becomes the special counsel the documents showed he was secretly communicating i interview the president of the oval offic in d he said absolutely thats why he was there he set up the meeting they demonstrate that he was terribly mistaken or not telling the truth when he denied all of that but it ignites the question what is he doing there . If hes already decided to take the job as the special counsel, was that a conversation under false pretenses so that he could gather information from trump in the oval office to be used against him in the special counsel investigation, and the key question did the president explained the reasons for firing comey and if the answer to that question is yes, then he could not have served the special counsel because that makes him both prosecutor and with this in the same case. He thought about it and smiled and said no comment. As i write in the book, it was clear to me sitting across and judging the reaction the answer was yes. Its inconceivable they would talked about the firing just days before because trump had been talking to everybody about it. So the can he should never have been special counsel. The parade of characters in the meantime the fbi, which i dont think that neither one of us or any americans say the instrument of the government is muchneeded agency in our government, do you think they are on the path to recovery . No because his twin brother is the fbi director, saying that metaphorically. I dont think to me judging the action that he doesnt care about how do we know that, because he has defied the issues by congress and has fought the declassification of the critical documents that would expose the truth behind the witchhunt. Its a shame he cant be more honest and transparent. They deserve to know the truth. Host jim clapper, john brennan, these are two names that appear throughout the book as we have all had to read and watch. Can they be prosecuted . Guest think its possible and that is why it is very significant and important that William Bauer several months ago launched an official department of justice investigation and appointed a u. S. Attorney from connecticut, john durham who is wellversed. People who have engaged in the lawless acts of those agencies. As i write in the book, inventing the light is easy, spreading the lie i lies easierd uncovering the truth is hard. It will take time to unravel all of the lawlessness in the witchhunt. But i have confidence in them. The Inspector Generals report will be very important, but they are not waiting for the report. They are moving full steam ahead into the recently learned that he has expanded his investigation and added additional personnel which suggests to me that he likely has already found evidence of potential crimes. Its amazing when you read the book it seemed like during the obama years from this group we put in the people in the Intelligence Community no real dirt on us and our enemies overseas and have real information but nothing on the Hillary Clinton emails, nothing but tried to stop him but yet with President Trump there is a leak including the conversations before the others that have a very regular basis. Why is this asymmetry of wild . Because the east years of the administration they were all empowered. This small group of unelected but powerful officials, you call them at the state and so do others. I call it a malignant force, baseball donald trump coming and he was a threat to the perpetuation of their power. Hillary clinton would have been a third term of barack obama into the cover would continue but the donald trump remember donald to drain the swamp. They didnt want to be drained. Power in washington is like crack cocaine. Once you get on it and have it you dont want to give it up and he will do anything to stop someone whos going to take your power away from you. So thats how the hope began and thats how it began the witchhunt because these people saw him as a threat to themselves and what they loved, power. The end justifies any means even lawless. You wrote two books on this whole tragedy since 2016, but it doesnt seem to end. [laughter] guest i end the book everyday i am not inclined to write another book, but the only cure for a lie is the truth and the only remedy for lawlessness is justice. And i end with that and then say a reckoning awaits. And so we wait. I follow but obviously very closely and continue to write columns on the subject matter. So we will wait and see and i am as curious as the American Public to see whether or not people will be held accountable because nobody is above the law, but nobody is below the law either. Hes treated as if hes below the law. He was accused of obstruction of justice constantly because he dared to speak out that the investigation against him was wrong and that he hadnt done anything wrong. He wasnt obstructing justice. He was protesting an injustice. Under the law but isnt obstruction of justice and get the team fought just criticizing them in their investigation was obstruction of justice. As one of the lawyers in the book recounted they acted like crybabies that no one not even the president could exercise an amendment to say what youre doing is wrong i didnt do anything wrong it is a witchhunt and it was. Now we know. In the minutes we have left, tell us a little bit more of your career and your path to the chronicle of these Amazing Stories that are truthful in your two books. How did you get to this point . Guest i was a lawyer defense attorney a great many years ago. I accidentally killing to tv and i did local news. Host how did you fall into its . Guest a buddy of mine was auditioning for a morning tv job and i tagged along and i ended up auditioning. Hes still my friend. Host guest he had a wonderful career doing other things. But i did both for many years and it became too much. I was young and single and didnt have a mortgage and thought i would just take a sabbatical from the law firm where i worked in San Francisco and after a couple of years youre still on the letterhead. Ias this article ever going to end . [laughter] s latest local news and court tv for several years, i was at msnbc, fox for 15 years but i started writing columns and they sort of took off, so i asked, you know, i would like to give up the anchoring it is a conflict of interest and so it would take two books. I miss my wife in wichita and anchored the news. She wasnt born and raised in wichita dallas texas, but we met in wichita. She was living there, i was living there. I loved wichita. I had a great time there. The people are so nice. I regard wichita and have been back several times and always enjoy visiting. Host my brother was just here from wichita. My brothers and sisters come out. Thats great. As we bring this to a conclusi conclusion, obviously your experience out there in the country with these different media jobs that you have had guest when you live with the people of kansas, North Carolina and cited, the people in maryland, i anchored the news there as well you get a feel for the honesty of america and what people care about and become kind of a part of them. It was one of the great things of being a correspondent for several years. I think i went just about to every state. I havent been to alaska. You get to know people and it keeps you grounded and honest because they are honest and its an important part of being a reporter i think is to understand who your readers are and viewers and listeners. Host the book is witchhunt and everyone should go buy it. Appreciate you being our guest here today. Great to be here with you. Thanks for having me. This program is available as a podcast. All programs can be viewed on the website at booktv. Org at the Defense Forum foundation in washington, d. C. Gordon offered his thoughts on south koreas reuniting with the north. Heres a portion of the program. He is a korean nationalist. His goal is the unification of korea. Its no surprise during his summit with the north korean ruler, he has emphasized the union. Since the division of the peninsula in 1945 come every Korean Leader north and south has advocated unification, but he appears to be the first Korean Leaders and staff to accept the unification proposals of the other side, and hes doing his best to achieve that unification as quickly as he can. To pave the way for that unification, he is trying to make south koreas form of government compatible with the north. Most fundamentally, the Democratic Party in 2018 tried to amend the constitution of the republic. They tried to remove the notion of liberal from the concept of democracy. Fortunately, he failed at this effort. Notice how conservatives, the opposition turned back that effort but he just kept on trying. His ministry of educatio minists been trying to change the textbooks, trying to take out this concept of liberalism. They have succeeded in part because the textbooks for the middle school as my great friend has pointed out, they did delete the word freedom. Remember, north korea thinks it is democratic, so south korea is a democracy but its not liberal. Its not free. Well then it looks a little bit like north korea and at least theoretical terms. After all, what is the name of the state that he leaves . Its the Democratic People republic of north korea. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for your. Im Bradley Graham the coowner of politics and prose along with my wife, Lisa Muscatine and