Transcripts For CSPAN2 Oversight Hearing Of The Smithsonian Institution 20240714

Ms. Lofgren the committee will come to order and want to welcome everyone on this hearing of providing oversight of Smithsonian Institution. Scientist english never visited the United States and decided to leave his fortunate tune. 10e years later in 1846, the Smithsonian Institution was established by congress. In the 173 years since, the smithsonian has grown to a complex of 19 mumse,ry Search Centers and Library Centers and 200 affiliate organizations, archives and the national zoo. Today, the smithsonian serves as stewards to 15 million works of art and specimens. Visitors from across the country and around the world flock to see this broad collection and in 2018, there were 29 million visitors. The smithsonian works with entities to have research. Earlier this year, thanks in large part to the significant seasonian leadership, the first ever image of the black hole was unveiled to the public. I was honored to meet the scientist who was responsible for that photo. Last week, we learned that the significant seasonian researchers in the amazon discovered an electric eel described as the most powerful ever. The institution is not without challenges as it continues to work through the Strategic Plan we discussed back in our 2017 committee hearing. These challenges need to be address for the institution to diffuse knowledge and include a deferred maintenance backlog approaching a million dollars, hortage space and insufficient diversity and inadequate Information Technology security. The smithsonian is in the midst of a renovation of the national air and space museum. These challenges exist in the transition period in the significant seasonian which has a new secretary and we are honored to have secretary bunch join us for his first appearance before us. In addition to these challenges, there are a number of congressional proposals for new mums at various levels. These proposals include h. R. 980, representative maloney, womens history and National Museum of the american latinos. These proposals would establish a museum of american of womens story and museum of american latinos. These proposals contemplate a combination of federally appropriated and privately raised funds to finance the construction of Museum Buildings and direct the smithsonian to appoint a director to manage the museum. This committee this hearing will inform the committee of the proposals as well. Before i introduce our witnesses, i would like to recognize our Ranking Member for his comments on the Smithsonian Institution oversight hearing. Thank you, mr. Davis. Mr. Davis thank you, chairwoman lofgren, for holding this hearing and thank you to the witnesses who are testifying for the first time before the committee. Its not that scary, sit . We hope you will come back. I do want to thank you, secretary bunch, for bringing the kansas of the hands of one of my most famous constituents from springfield, illinois. In some places in illinois, abe lincoln might still be able to vote but not in springfield. We have before us an opportunity to hear from you and i am really honored that youve become secretary and i certainly look forward to working with you. The apollo 50 event on the mall was a welldeserved tribute to the apollo 11 mission and a well deserved moment of recognition for a proud moment in our nations history. Since its establishment, the smithsonian has become the Worlds Largest museum, education, and research complex. It celebrates and preserve ours nations Cultural Heritage and advances scientific skfry in multiple disciplines. On behalf of the american people, congress, the board of regents and the smithsonian management, you have a responsibility to ensure the continued success of the institution for future generations. The smithson ma the smithsonian has a broad mission, the increase an diffusion of knowledge. The goal is to reach one billion people a year through a Digital First strategy, making the smithsons collections, First Class Research and empowering materials accessible to people across the country, not just those who visit washington, d. C. That needs to be a fundamental part of the institutions strategy moving forward. Excuse me. I particularly am pleased that my former boss and mentor, congressman john shimkus, serves on the board of regents. His experience as a former educator allows him to provide the smithsonian with unique perspectives to advance this strategy. I look forward to hearing from you on your vision of achieving the goal and other priorities. As a large, complex organization with 19 museums and the national zoo, multiple reSearch Centers and an international presence, the smithsonian also faces significant risks and challenges. First to mind is the smithsons renovation of one of the most visited museums, happens to be my twin bys favorite thembing national eyre and space facility on the National Mall. Thats being done while a portion remains open to the visiting public. Additionally, an increasing maintenance backlog thats just over 1 billion. Furthermore, inadequate Storage Space for collections. Finally, reports have identified muchneeded i. T. Security improvements and i welcome the Inspector Generals comments on these and other risks facing the commugs and look forward to discussing the smithson yeas approach to addressing them. Establishing a new museum is a complex undertaking and should be carefully considered to its success. Were hopeful that secretary bunch can provide insight into the issues surrounding the museums and the keys to success in doing. So finally, secretary bunch, im excited about the possibility of your visiting springfield, illinois, in my district, which happens to be the site of the 1908 race riots and the birth place of the naacp. The community would love to have you view the significant artifacts that are being excavated right now and tour the site which the department of interior just determined was suit frble designation as a National Historic monument. So thank you, i look forward to hearing from our witness today and i yield back, madam chair. Ms. Lofgren the gentleman yields back. Other members Opening Statements will be policed in the record. We have in our audience today a congresswoman in the audience today, congresswoman carolyn maloney, author of the Womens History Museum bill which nows has a sufficient number of cosponsors to actually pass the house. Welcome, representative maloney. Id like to welcome our witnesses now. Joining us this morning are secretary of the smithsonan lonnie bunch and the smithsonian Inspector General, kathy helm. Secretary bunch is the 14th secretary of the sith month sithsonian and the first africanamerican to lead the institution. He assumed the role of secretary in june, 2019. While secretary bunch is new to his current position, hes not new to the smithsonian from 2005 until this year, he served as director of the smithsons smithsonians National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture, a spectacular museum and if people have not yet visited i recommend you do. So when he started that job in 2005, mr. Bunch had one staff member, no collections, and no dedicated museum site. Thanks to his leadership since the National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture opened in 2016, its welcomed more than five million visitors, compiled a collection of 40,000 objects that are housed in the first Green Building on the National Mall. He served as president of the Chicago Historical society, as associate director for the curetorial affairs at the National Museum of American History during his career and hes also an accomplished author, having written on topics ranging from the american presidency to diversity in museum management. His most recent work, a fools errand is about his experience creating the africanamerican History Museum, yale really, a crowning glory of an achievement for you, sir. Were so honored, after the hearing hes brought some artifacts from the smithsonian for us to look at which are really something special. Please do take the time after the hearing to take a look at them. Cathy helm has been serving as Inspector General for the Smithsonian Institution since 2014. Shes responsible for conducting audits and investigations, keeping the board of regents and congress informed about problems and deficiencies, promoting efficiency and effect i haveness effectiveness within the smithsonian and preventing and detecting fraud, waste and abuse. Inspector general helm also serves as vice chair they have Audit Committee for the counsels Inspector General on integrity and efficiency and is chair of the small, ewe knee o. I. G. Group, a grandpa of Inspector Generals who meet quarterly to exchange ideas. Before she joins joined the smithsonian, Inspector General helm worked as deputy Inspector General at the u. S. Government Accountability Office where she helped lead audit and investigative programs. Welcome to beth of todays witnesses and we thank you so much for coming. At this time i would ask unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and all written statement mace be made part of the record. Without objection, that is so ordered. I remind the witnesses that your entire statements will be made part of the record. We ask that you your testimony summarize your written statement about about five minutes. When the five minutes is nearing up, the little light will turn yellow. When its red that means the five minutes are up and we ask you to wind it up. The record will remain open for at least five days for additional materials or questions to be submitted to you. So now we will turn to you, secretary bunch. Welcome. Were eager to hear your testimony. Mr. Bunch thank you so much, chairperson lofgren, Ranking Member davis and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My tenure as the 14th secretary of the smithsonian has been only a few short months, but as you mentioneding, my relationship with this institution gos back to when i was 26yearold kid. I was so honored to serve as the founding director of the National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture and im plrn pleased, in fact, im humbled, to assume the role as secretary of the institution, the institution i las vegas so much. The smithsonian greatly appreciates the continued support of congress, the administration, and the american people. We take seriously the crucial role we play in advancing the civic, educational, and scientific life of this nation. Our goal is to reach in meaningful ways at least one billion people worldwide. Nothing replaces the authentic artifacts we have on display. But we need to reach millions who cannot visit us in person. Using all the Digital Tools available to us. I am committed to achieving this goal while protecting an securing our Digital Assets and those of the users of our technology. Cultural institutions are uniquely equipped to inspire and we magnified that ability when we truly reflect the rich tap city of humanity. The smithsonian is committed to increase, atracking attracting and developing a diverse and talented work force. I am pleased that congress has supported this egoal of telling more expansive and representative stories by shepherding legislation that advocates for new museums. If congress deems it in the interest of the American Public to authorize the smithsonian to build a new museum, and provides the necessary additional funds for that purpose, and appropriates means for a longterm operation of the museum, then we will create a museum that exceeds all expectations. A new museum that builds on the standards of excellence set by the smithsonian. But in the interim, the institution is committed to making every single Smithsonian Museum and program more inclusive and more representative of the nations population. It is, as you pointed out, crucially important that we recognize the smithsonians pressing infrastructure and collection space needs that demand our immediate and ongoing attention. We is appreciate the support of congress in the renovation of the national air and space museum. Just as important, we are grateful for the ongoing support of maintenance needs throughout the institution. Regarding the american womans History Museum legislation, both the house and senate bills largely mirror the successful model employed by the National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture. Both bills call to construct the museum with 50 federal and require tremendous smithsonian to raise 50 from nonfederal sources. Legislation is also has also been introduced calling to create a National Museum of the american la latino, in order to showcase the life, art, history and culture of american latinos and their latinos and their contributions to the United States. This also followed the model of the national africanamerican museum. While i do have experience with private fundraising and am more than willing to advocate for private funds, it is impossible to pursue projects of the magnitude without federal funding for the projects at their very genesis. If authorized and funded by congress wed be honored to add these museums to the smithsonian family. If Congress Makes these decisions we will tell a broader, more complete story with our resources. An example of this desire is the american womens history initiative, because of her story. Which was lanched in 2018. Because of her story represents a paratime shift. It allows the entire smithsonian to wrestle with how issues of gender shaped the American Experience. We are grateful to congress for this support. We are also so proud to be able to unveil in the fall of 2021 the first gallery to explore latino culture to open on the National Mall and we worked very hard to make sure that the Smithsonian Asian Pacific Center which has served to further the inclusion of Asian Pacific americans, continues to research, build collections, do exhibitions and programs, and they too are also fundraising for the first gallery dedicated to them. Our work to increase knowledge is never ending. The institution has been conducting Ground Breaking research in science and marine and terrestrial environments, reproducing animals from around the world in their natural habitat. Ultimately what i want to do is say that museums are more than important now than ever because of their ability to serve as trusted sources of information. We want the people to see the smithsonian as a tool to help them understand their universe, their history, and our shaped future in order to live better lives. It is incumbent on us as an institution to be a more universal resource, one that earns the american Peoples Trust and leverages our great convening power to increase our relevance. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify. Im happy to answer any and all questions. Ms. Lofgren thank you very much. Now we hear from you, ms. Helm. Ms. Helm yes, chairman lofgren, Ranking Member davis and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the role of the office of Inspector General and the oversight of the smithsonian. As you know, o. I. G. s mission is to promote the efficiency, effectiveness, and integrity of smithsonians programs and operations. We do this through independent and objective audits and investigations. Today, my testimony will focus on our work related to management challenges. In the area of collection management, Facilities Management and security. Collections are at the core of this this at the core of the smithsonian. Our office has done extensive work spming examining collection stewardship. For instance, we reported in 2015 that the smithsonian faces challenges to fully implement the plan that is to ensure the Proper Storage of its collection. Because of its estimated cost, more than 1 billion over 30 years, and the immediate to balance competing demands to fund other Capital Projects. Currently, we are asaysing inventory controls of the smithsonians newest museum, the museum of africanAmerican History and culture. The smithsonian also faces challenges in deferred maintenance. Because it is spending less than the recommended ams to maintain facilities. In fiscal year 2017, the smithsonian had a deferred maintenance backlog approaching 1 billion. Deferring maintenance can reduce the overall life of facilities and may lead to higher costs in the long term. Eventually, deferred maintenance requires a major capital investment. In fact, the smithsonians 650 million Capital Project to revitalize the national air and space museum includes more than 250 million of deferred maintenance. Security is also a challenge. Information Technology Security is a growing risk for all organizations. Security breaches cost money, disrupt operations, and erode public trust. Each year our office evaluates the effectiveness of smithsonians Information Technology security program. While the smithsonian has made steady progress in improving this program it is not yet fully effective. In addition, the Personnel Security Program helps to ensure that the individuals responsible for smithsonians collections, security, financial assets, and reputation have the appropriate character and conduct to be associated with the smithsonian. We recently reported that individuals received preemployment background investigations but that the smithsonian has no assurance that employees receive the appropriate level of postemployment background investigation. Moreover, the smithsonian could have saved a third of its Program Costs in fiscal year 2016 if it had used an automated tool to determine the appropriate level of investigation for its retail employees. We also found that Computer Network access has been granted to individual who was not received background investigations. Finally, in todays world, the importance of a skilled, welltrained Security Guard force is more important than ever. In a recent report, o. I. G. Found that new Security Guards were allowed to graduate from basic training, although they had missed one or more days of instruction. Moreover, guards only had to qualify on their firearms once a year rather than twice a year as recommended by best practices. Thank you, chairman lofgren, Ranking Member davis, and members of the committee. This concludes my statement and im happy to respend to any questions you may have. Ms. Lofgren thank you both for your testimony. Now is the time for members to ask questions. I have a few. Secretary bunch, one of the great things about being new is that youre not responsible for any of the problems, all you get to do is solve those that have been identified. So im wondering in terms of the Cyber Security issues that have been identified, as well as the affirmative action deficits that you found, what are your plans to approach those identified issues . Mr. Bunch in terms of Cyber Security, what we really appreciate has been the guidance that we received from the Inspector General. This is a high priority for me. We have taken many steps to try to make sure that we filled all the holes. We recognize, however that Cyber Security is going to be an ongoing issue and we are committed to having the level of training f and the appropriate staff expertise to make sure we can respond to the ongoing challenge. My whole career has really been about making sure that a diverse array of scholars, educators, employees are allowed to help shape an institution and make it better. It is really clear to me that the smithsonian has made amazing strides in my time there. But it is still very much a much a e and i challenge and i am committed to actually looking at diversity, not just in staff but on the boards. That also shape the smithsonian. So ultimately for me, i think that when my tenure is up, one of the things i expect is the smithsonian to have a much more diverse leadership and to really be the kind of place that of place that mirrors the america we believe in. Ms. Lofgren thank you for that. That leads me to my next question which is the new museums that have been proposed that really reflect the greater diversity of our wonderful country. First, the Womens Museum that has so many cosponsors. But also, the Latino Museum that representative serrano is supporting and theres also, its not as far along, but a proposal for an Asian American museum. Im wondering, what do you think are the next steps that we could take as a congress to move those along . I know that theres been substantial fundraising for the Womens Museum and theres efforts under way for the others. I hear your testimony that we also need to appropriate funds. It seems to me that the way to move this forward is to authorize these museums, which then will challenge our appropriators to match the private funds that have been raised with public funds. Your thoughts on that . Mr. Bunch i think its important, after going through 11 years of building a National Museum, its really clear that in order to move forward, one of the first things we need to do is identify what are all the challenges. And some of those are about funding and resources. Some of those are about the some of those are about the process of how that funding gets released. Also, it is really the recognition that this is a longterm commitment. And that i think that if this is authorized, we would then really expect to do what we do with the National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture, which is have a period of several years move this forward, to study what exactly were talking about what are the collections needs, what are the building needs, what are the scholarship needs so we would then have a better idea of what the cost would be. But i think the key is to have that commitment to recognizing that its a challenging endeavor. Its an endeavor that challenges the smithsonian, candidly, but its an endeavor with the right support we can do. Ms. Lofgren i think were very lucky to have someone leading the whole institution who actually brought a fabulous museum from concept to reality. Question. Inal question. The smithsonian recently conducted a very successful fundraising campaign, it raised 1. 88 billion in the course of about eight years. Can any of these private funds be used to address the backlog of deferred maintenance . What will those funds be used for . Mr. Bunch i think a lot of those funds are committed to specific things, to educational program, supporting some of the research initiatives. We will always look at wherever we can take resources an put it toward deferred maintenance and other issues. But as you know, deferred maintenance isnt sexy. So many of the donors are not interested in putting their money in that record. In that regard. So we have to look to the federal government. We have to look to be more creative in the kinds of partnerships we put together that will allow us ultimately better job of using those funds. Ms. Lofgren thank you, mr. Secretary. I turn now to mr. Davis for his questions. Mr. Davis thank you, madam chair. Concerned about postemployment background checks . What are you hiding . Im more than willing to offer up mr. Aguilar for a check for the post employment background checks. You ok with that pete . How concerned are you about the size and growth of the Facilities Maintenance backlog and whats your strategy to reduce it . Mr. Bunch im very concerned about this. I think that we are looking at prioritizing very clearly in triage what are the priorities we have to do . What is it about Mission Critical . What is it thats clearly about public safety, safety of the collection. Were doing a better job of making sure were making sure were putting what limited resources we have in the priorities that were focusing on. Were also looking at what are creative ways like with the renovation of the air and space museum that were able to bring funds in that will allow us to get to some of those backlogs. Were also obviously looking very carefully at some of the initiatives that allow us to look at maintenance like the south mall master plan. Looking to see, is that the best play we can best way we can accomplish these things. Im committed to the to now revisiting this, taking a hard look at it, figuring autowhats figuring out whats the best way to use those limbed resources. Mr. Davis thank you. The institution must be perceived as an honest broker and apolitical. I have to say after seeing the caption for the portrait of Ronald Reagan at the National Portrait gallery, i had some concerns. How is the smithsonian how does the smithsonian ensure it remains an honest broker and i want to emphasize how important it is for you to be seen as nonpolitical and nonpartisan. Mr. Bunch i think its crucially important to emphasize throughout the organization that we are a nonpartisan entity. Thing greatest strength of building the natural the National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture is that we were seen as nonpartisan, we had support from both sides of the aisle and i continue work in that record. I think its crucial to understand that things like label copy, we always vet them. We review them through the cue rator, through the direct yoffers the museum. When there are issues that are that go beyond that, brought to the secretarial level, we are committed to using our research, using our scholarship, and that guides what we do. Not political considerations. But the best evidence that comes from the research that we have. Mr. Davis thank you. Take a look at the reagan caption again, then we can talk after that you mentioned, ms. Helm, that the digitization of the clecks will improve collection management. Have you been able to assess the digitization plan including the pace of digitization and whats your assessment . Ms. Helm yes. Several years ago we did a report where we looked at the collection storage plan as well as the digitization plan. And found that the smithsonian was working toward digitization, was committed to it. And but it will be a longterm effort that will equire time and resources. Mr. Davis ok. Secretary bunch, reaching the k12 students is a worthy objective in your Strategic Plan. Can you discuss your plans to achieve it and do you plan to extend the reach more broadly across the country as i mentioned in my opening state snment mr. Bunch i believe the smithsonian is one to have the most important educational institutions in this country and it needs to play a role not just in the traditional way museums do work but in nontraditional ways. In really figuring out, how do we put the resources we have to really improve k12 education. I have made that the cornerstone of my tenure. I said its not enough just to bring kids into the smithsonian. What you really need to do is make sure were helping people wrestle with the curricula challenges, helping students get the fullest learning journey possible. I want to use what were doing in the district of columbia as a pilot, to test how it is that the smithsonian can really not only help children, but excite teachers and give teachers mid career rejufe nation, create opportunities for parents to be part of that learning journey for their children. What i hope will happen is that the ideas we test, both the actual ideas and the ideas, the virtual ideas well use in the district, will allow us then to continue to expand the work that we already do nationally. I am committed to the smithsonian ultimately being a place that influences, enhances and enriches k12 education throughout the United States. Mr. Davis thank you both, i yield back. Ms. Lofgren the gentleman from maryland is recognized. Thank you and welcome, ms. Helm, mr. Bunch. Congratulations, mr. Bunch, an your new book and your very inspiring and successful director of the National Museum on africanAmerican History and culture. Mr. Raskin my first question s actually about that. Its obviously inspired other efforts as the chair was saying to create museums on the woman and on american women and on Latino Museum, an Asian American museum. Tell me, one of the remarkable things about the africanamerican museum is, first of all, i think its now the most Popular Museum destination, is that right . Mr. Bunch its one of the most popular. Mr. Raskin one of them. Its a remarkable thing when you go over there, you get people coming from all over the place, all over the world, all over america. Large, multiracial, multicultural crowds coming in to check it out. And so im wondering if youd reflect for a moment on how museums that focus on a certain commention of the American Experience can speak universally to everybody in the country and how should we think about all these proposals coming forward for other museums similar to that . Mr. Bunch i think the most important thing that we did in building the National Museum of africanAmerican History and culture was from the beginning saying, this was not a museum by a community for a particular community. That we said this is an opportunity understand america through the lens of an africanamerican community. And what that meant is it became the story for us all. That everybody could find themselves in that story. Whether they were interested in our noses of liberty, our notions of sintship. So what i think the major contribution would be is that any museum that is created, whether its a Latino Museum or Womens History Museum, that were not trying to create that ancillary story. Were trying to say this is the best way, another way, to understand america. I think that makes it not something that is separate but part of the glue that helps us understand our identity. Mr. Raskin i think you achieved precisely that vision in a remarkable way in this museum. Its a window into American History for all of us. And it deepens everybodys appreciation of what america is. So i absolute that vision and i hope its one well continue to realize as we move forward with ther projects in the future. The art and Industries Building recently reopened as a space for special events. What do youen vision as the longterm plan for use of this building . Mr. Bunch the arts and Industries Building is really one of my favorite buildings in the smithsonian and i think what we want to do now is, we put together people working on what is the longterm future for that building. Right now, were committed to srt of doing major exhibitions that will be part of our celebration for our 175th anniversary of the smithsonian in 2021. Thing in the meantime, were now looking at what does it mean to think, to rethink the works of the Castle Building and the arts and Industries Building and see how were going to use those. At this stage ive just put people on that, ill get briefed, but its one of my priorities to figure out what is the longterm use of the a i building and the castle. Mr. Raskin ok, and youre getting input from presumably the board and other stake holers . Mr. Bunch what were doing is, were not only looking at what the staff thought, the board of regents are very involved in that. We will do as i always do when we think of longterm use, well reach out to a variety of communities and stake holders to get an understanding of what they want. I think its crucial for us to recognize that the history of the smithsonian is tied up in those two buildings and we want to make sure theyre always there to serve the American Public. Mr. Raskin i know about the big revitalization project going on with air and space. What other major facilities projects do you foresee for the smithsonian in the next five to 10 years . Mr. Bunch i think really the big ones are the arts industry and the castle, to figure out what were going there and then to make a determination about what the south mall master plan really is. To look at those questions. The other thing will be, beginning to look at a Sculpture Garden for part of the hir shorn of he hirschorn museum. How do we make the mall Visitor Friendly an serves as great entrances to all the museums . Thats what well be looking at over the next several years. Ms. Lofgren the gentleman from georgia is recognized. Thank you both for being here. Ive always been a huge fan of the smithsonian, this is a chance we can engage with you guys to make sure that we have plans and policies in place for longterm sustainability of this national asset. Of course theres always oncerns. That rise, challenges it must face. Mr. Loudermilk i appreciate your willingness to step up and take the lead and hopefully resolve the issues out there. Theres not an agency or organization that doesnt face challenges. I have some questions about the challenges, especially the deferred maintenance back log. That can be it is a significant challenge at this point. S. Helm, what is the current cost in dollars as far as the the deferred maintenance backlog today . Ms. Helm i believe for fiscal year 2017, it was approximately 937 million. Mr. Lauder milk getting close to a billion. Ms. Helm right, aproaching 1 billion. Mr. Loudermilk as far as the timeline, how far back are some of the maintenance issues . How long have they been out there . Ms. Helm the deferred maintenance backlog has been around for a long time. Fact s created by the that the National Research Council Recommends that Government Agencies spend between 2 to 4 of the replacement value of their buildings and the smithsonians budget has been about 1 . So each year, the backlog just continues to grow. Mr. Loudermilk do you know what if i was to look at the list of the backlog whats the oldest date . Ms. Helm i do not know that. Mr. Loudermilk a decade . Five years . Ms. Helm i could get that information for you. Id be happy to. Mr. Loudermilk secretary bunch, whats your plan to go after the back log . Are you looking to get close torte 2 to 4 . Mr. Bunch my goal is to be at 2 to 4 , to try to get around at least 2 , id like to get 3 . The challenge for us is to figure out how do we make sure when were looking at our congressional appropriation, to make sure weve got money thats going to allow us to grow in that direction. Also to think maybe creatively more about, are there opportunities when were fundraising for the projects that people are excited about, is there a way to layer in some support for backlog. I think thats what were going to be looking at. I dont have an answer yet but ill have it soon. Mr. Loudermilk i appreciate anything you can do from a prior Business Owners perspective, you cleanous before you expand. And you know, through the discussions of potential new museums, which im very excited about, i think its important that we get the house cleaned before we look at expanding anymore. My concern would be further expansion just creates more of a backlog unless we address that early. Id appreciate anything that you can provide us on plans to move forward because i think as this institution goes from a funding mechanism, a solid plan would help us in being able to appropriate more toward that. I do have some ke questions on information securities since that is my background but first, the 900 million cost for renovation for air and space museum. I looked at and thought that had to be a mistake. I had to go back and look at it again. Thats the cost. It just seems very high to me since it was the cost to build the africanamerican museum was 540 million. The museum of bible was 500. Many the Nationals Park condition instruction was only 701 million. Trump tower was 300 million. Why such a high cost . Almost 1 billion for refurbishment. Mr. Bunch i think first of all you know that its often cheaper to build new than to refurbish. I think that part of this is that this was also the opportunity to upgrade all the systems. To make sure that this is an green like museum we can make. Even though this building was opened in 1976, in terms of the life of the construction of that time, this building has been around a long time. So in essence, what were trying to do is to do almost what you said about the deferred maintenance. We want to fix it all. We dont want to postpone things so that my next whoever follow me will have to wrestle with the air and space museum. Thats why its costing what it is. Mr. Lud every milk i appreciate that. Ill sub many mr. Loudermilk i appreciate that. Ill submit my other questions for the record. Air and space museum, as an aviator thats one of my favorite, most frequented museums. I yield back. Ms. Lofgren thank you. The gentlelady from california, mrs. Davis. Mrs. Davis thank you, madam chair. Secretary bunch and ms. Helm, thank you for your leadership as well. Im glad you had the opportunity to talk a little bit about how the experience of delivering the africanamerican museum of history and culture informs what youre doing today. I remember that day, it was extraordinary. I am very hopeful that that really makes a difference for all of us and we appreciate the fact that youre there. I wonder if you could, just a few more thoughs about the importance of the treasures that we have on our mall, the smithsonian, for the young people of our country, i often ask students when i go into classrooms, if theyve visited washington, d. C. Before, maybe by eighth grade theyve come but most often thats not the case. I was with a class the other day and thats a local effort, its incredible to me that a large number of our children throughout this country never make it here. To the capital. And to see these treasures that we have. So i think if we can think more about that and collaborating with the local communities, that would be helpful. Obviously the role of teachers, its critically important to translate that experience for young people as well. If you have any thoughs about that. The other thing i wanted to ask briefly, were talking about the pressure and the need for more museums. Theres so many interests that we want represented on the mall. How much space do we have . For that. How do you see that space, as you look at the entire mall, are there areas we could redevelop perhaps better on the mall . Where does that stand . Mr. Bunch let me answer the last first. I think that its clear that theres very little space left on the mall. And that one of the questions is to begin to think about whats the best use of what we have left. Are there other spaces near the mall that ought to be used, can continue to maybe spread the influence of the smithsonian . I understand the power of the mall. It was really important to me that the africanamerican museum be on the mall. I think the key is to look at the spaces. What can we do with what we have. But recognize they are limited spaces on the mall. Thing from an education point of view, the smithsonian is amazing. I think about in my career holding the compass that lewis and clark carried when they went across the country or looking at the alol low apollo 11 capsule. What i realized is we have to find ways to get this around the country. Part of that is through the traveling exhibitions and all the things we tend to do but also it really is looking at what can we do virtually. It seems to me there ought to be a way that the smithsonian can get into every classroom in the United States. Even simple ideas of helping people get the virtual lincolns top hat or lewis an clarks compass so they can make on a 3d printer that allows the teachers in the classrooms to talk about the importance of citizenship or exploration. So i think the goal that ive challenged the educational staff is to say to me how can we touch every classroom . How can we share the wonders of the smithsonian, research, science, art, mirsry. Thats a major commitment to me. I want people, i want children to be made better by the wonds f the smithsonian. Ms. Lofgren the gentlelady yields back they feel gentleman from North Carolina is recognized. Thank you, madam chair. Let me thank both of you for your testimony today. Dr. Bunch i want to thank you particularly for your service not just to the smithsonian but to the country. Ive got to get use t. D. Calling you secretary bunch. I have followed your career through the years, i said to you privately and will say publicly today, thank you. Off great challenge in front of you and im sure those of us on this committee will join hands with you and try make the smithsonian even better than it is. I will certainly do my part. Mr. Butterfield let me talk to you about diversity uric know how strongly i feel about that. We talked about it over the years. Give me some appreciation for the work force, the size of the work force. Thats under your jurisdiction. Mr. Bunch there are approximately 7,000 people that work for the smithsonian. All over the country. Whether it is people that work out of the smithsonian observe story in boston, the people that work at the sith smon smithsonian trop tall Research Institute in panama. In new york city mr. Butterfield these are federal employees on your payroll . Mr. Bunch yes. In essence the goal for us is to make sure that these staff reflect the diversity of america. Were not there yet. Especially i want to make sure it reflect diversity at the senior positions. I want to make sure that were not just looking at the lower introductory positions but that senior cue rators, leaders of institution, the smithsonian has done, i think, a very good job on issues of gender and leadership. Many of the Museum Directors are now women. I think weve done a less successful job of embracing diversity, of racial or ethnic minorities, in leadership positions. Mr. Butterfield the different layers are senior leadership, lower level leadership, entry level type jobs, whats the middle strata called . Mr. Bunch career staff. Mr. Butterfield do you collect data on the demographics of those layers. Mr. Bunch we have that data and i can make sure we present to you. Mr. Butterfield which is strongest in racial diversity . Bip its at the lower levels, guards, security, lower level administration. At the levels where it fundamentally shapes the smithsonian, cue rators, scientists, thats where were working to improve that. Mr. Butterfield do you have a venn tore list . Mr. Bunch we do very well with that. We have a strong supplier diversity program. Whether it is the fact that when we built the nash museum of africanAmerican History and culture we made sure that minorities, womenowned businesses received a higher percentage than ever before work go that throughout the smithsonian. Im very pleased with that part of the smithsonian. The vendor work we do really reaches a broad and diverse group. Mr. Butterfield d you pledge to continue that and build upon that . Mr. Bunch no doubt about it, thats crucial to our success. Mr. Butterfield you mentioned the boards that shape the institution. I didnt understand that. Mr. Bunch each Smithsonian Museum has its own board. The boards help with fundraise, guide the different museums. What i want to make sure is that we dont forget that they need to be made more diverse. That there are opportunities for people of color, women, to play a more leading role on some of those boards. Mr. Butterfield dozens of boards across the spectrum. Mr. Bunch each museum has a board. Some of the Research Entity has their own board. Mr. Butterfield is that Data Available . Mr. Bunch we can make it available. Mr. Butterfield do you make Data Available for groups that want to preserve history . I want ask you about financial resources, i know youre stretched on that, but Technical Resources . Mr. Bunch different museums do it in different ways. The nash museum of africanAmerican History and culture, i created a unit whose job it was to work with local museums, to provide train, provide expertise. So what im hoping is that that is a model that will be picked up by some of the other museums within the smithsonian. But we also do a fair amount of training through some of the programs we do, we do sites exhibition, sometimes theres training reaching out to local communities. So that in essence we want to do a much better job, a more frmal job, and im looking to see how much do we emulate the museum created at the of africanAmerican History and culture. Mr. Butterfield how exciting. I yield back. Ms. Lofgren the gentlewoman is recognized. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you both for your testimony. I want to recognize, madam clark has joined us who i think came from the smithsonian. Mr. Speaker, let me also mr. Secretary, let me say, its refreshing to have the secretary and Inspector General on the same page. We dont hear that an awful lot. So thank you. Let me ask the question, you talked about the cost of deferred main nance. I ask you, beyond cost, are any collections actually at risk . Ms. Fudge because of deferred maintenance . Mr. Bunch it is important for us, for me that we protect those collections. Thats what is really at the heart of the smithsonian. And we have really worked hard to make sure that clecks are not at risk. Weve made weve worked this order identify areas of concern and will continue to do that. When we know that there are corrections at risk we move quickly to try to protect them and to give them the proper housing that they need. I think that the goal will be, however, that were really stretched and we need the resources to continue to do things like build new storage pods. Out or out near the museum. Those are the kind of things that going to allow us not to just provide bare maintenance but provide the kind of quality care that is at the heart of the smithsonian. Ms. Fudge do you agree, madam Inspector General . Ms. Helm yes, i do think the collection space plan they have developed has that end goal. I think there are facilities that have been identified as being at an acceptable level but im not aware of collections being at risk of immediate harm or anything like that. Ms. Fudge all right. Et me ask this question. We are talking about the rescythelyization of the national air and space museum. What do you do with the large pieces of the collection while thats under way . Mr. Bunch what we do is, the goal is to try to give the public as much access to those collections as possible. So some of the large pieces get moved out to the new storage places out in dulles. And other areas out in suitland. But we tie to make sure that theres enough on display so that the public is still engaged and gets a lot of the history. We also encourage people to go out to the center out in dulles which is where a lot of the larger airplanes are. Its another way to continue that story of understanding history of aviation. Ms. Fudge so now, digitization initiative, is it going to save physical storage at some point . How is that going to work. Mr. Bunch what digitization does is about protecting the collections by reduce ugh the use on them. Pulling them out. It also, however, gets the collections out to a broader possible audience. It doesnt reduce the collections we have. I think the challenge for the smithsonian is to realize that were always going to continue to grow the collections, what we want to do is make sure weve got the sort of processes to make sure that its crucially important when we collect something and that we have the space and the resources to protect it. Ms. Fudge if there were one thing that you would ask us today that is your top priority, what would it be . Mr. Bunch can i get two . Ms. Fudge ill give you two. Mr. Bunch i think that my top priority has to be making the smithsonian accessable virtually. To really make sure we can educate people around the country and around the globe. I think my second priority, candidly, is to find ways to address the backlog. To make sure that these amazing facilities are protected and made accessible to the american people. Ms. Fudge thank you very much. Madam chair, i yield back. Ms. Lofgren the gentleman from california is recognized for five minutes. Secretary bunch, you talked a little bit about the creation of the National Museum of the american latino. Youre familiar with the history. In 2008 president bush created the commission. The report was completed in 2011. It gave a project cost, im certain at the time, 600 million. You identified, you mentioned identifying future challenges involved if congress was to move forward and give you guidance. Mr. Aguilar right now theres authorizing language as the chair mentioned, 179 members in a bipartisan fashion have signed on to this bill. I know the sponsor, mr. Serrano, has worked with you on the Publicprivate Partnership funding piece, making sure the language was sufficient for your needs. Whats the timeline from when the bill is signed into law to the next steps and to ultimately completion if history is our guide, what does that look like . Mr. Bunch it took 11 years to build the nash museum of africanAmerican History once we had leadership, because thats truly key, the director. I think thats probably a good framework. We might be able to do some things that can shorten a little, ive got ideas about that, but the challenge of building the staff, raising, building the recognition that allows us to raise the money, getting a better sense of what the content is really going to be. Bringing on people that can help think about the building itself, and ultimately looking at what are the longterm resource needs to make sure that when it opens we recognize thats the beginning, not the end of the process. So i think that it is a decadelong process, once you actually begin by bringing on a director. Mr. Aguilar i appreciate that. This year, congressman serrano is working on language in the interior appropriations bill to encourage the smithsonian to continue exploring the creation of the museum. To look to programs, exhibits, collections and public outreach. Do you see any problems complying with language that continues to give you guidance to move in that direction in mr. Bunch not at all. In fact, i would argue one of the ways that you can shorten the period of building a museum if thats where we go, is to really have cue rators to do exhibitions that allow us to begin to get the research. One, that gets people excited. Thats part of the key to raising the successful funds. Two, one the great challenges will be billing the collection. If we can do work now that will foreshadow some of the clecks needs, bring collections to the smithsonian that will allow us to move a little quicker. Mr. Aguilar appreciate it. Following up on what mr. Butterfield talked about, i know youre familiar, in 1994, the Smithsonian Institute task force produced a report called woeful neglect. In that since that report, the latinx work force in the smithsonian has risen 2. 7 to 10 . Unfortunately that growth hasnt met the same numbers at the executive level. So you started to answer mr. Butterfields question about e higher levels, cue rators, scientists, executives. Can you talk to me about whats being done to increase diversity at the executive level . Mr. Bunch one of the things thats important to me as i look at whatever changes individuals i bring in to the senior level i want to make sure diversity is at the heart of what im trying to do. I would be unbelievably disappointed if i didnt by the end of my tenure have a staff that is more diverse. Its a challenge in many ways because, one, people never leave the smithsonian, but my goal is to make sure that the smithsonian is made better when it has those Diverse Voices around the table. Mr. Aguilar i appreciate the answer. Thank you so much. Chaug, madam chair. Ms. Lofgren thank you. All members have had an opportunity to ask questions. The record will remain open for five legislative days. We would like to thank you both for your testimony here today. Ill just note that i think i speak for the entire committee how proud we are of the institution, the Smithsonian Institute is really a jewel that belongs to the american people. I was just thinking and talking to the Ranking Member,in the mid 1990s, i think congressman sapio was chairman this committee. Took the lead to insist that we do the funding necessary to repair the library of congress and the botanical gardens. Repairs an maintenance are not sexy but these facilities are held in trust for the american people. I think one of the things we need to do is to see whether this is that kind of time to work with our appropriators to make sure that were fulfilling our obligation to make sure that these jewels are maintained for future generations. Your leadership is very important in that regard. With further matters before us on this oversight hear, we thank you and the hearing is adjourned. Thank you. [captioning made possible by the national captioning institute, inc. , in cooperation with the United States house of representatives. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] next, House Speaker nancy flows he talks about the democrats plan to address Prescription Drug prices. This disturbance is about 40 minutes