We pride ourselves here at the library among other things on the timeliness and the relevance of our signature programming. Whether were holding forums on local issues or addressing emerging or hot button national topics. He didnt intend on the particular timeliness of tonights presentation. Christopher leonard was a busy man at the end of last week. Taking reporters calls and wrote a coup of oped articles after the death of david koch. Chris spent eight near in the the kochland, the place and the title of his book, pulling back the curtain on the extraordinary Business Empire and the potent Political Network that was put toth by the david koch and his older brother, charles, from their base three hours down the road in wichita. Anybody here had a chance to read the book yet . So, you wont understand but youll knee immediately when you get into it, as you get into it, what im talking about. Its daunting when you pick it up. Its 574 pages and thats before you get to the noteses appendix and acknowledgments. But chris has written a 574 bethpage, page turner. As formle journalist im awed, ago inspired, by how deeply researched this book is. By the degree of detail that he has packed into it. Despite his limited access to company executives, including Koch Industries master mind, charles koch. And yet its so accessibly written. Its fascinating, dramatic in places and at the very top of the journalistic checklist, its fair. Maybe more than some people would like. New york times said in its review, quote, it ranks among the best books ever written about an american corporation. Kochland was relead to weeks ago today, and immediately cracked the times top ten list of nonfiction best sellers. Chris was born and raid near kansas city, grew up in brookside area, went to college at mu and got hooked on journalism there. He worked his first job after graduation at the columbia daily tribune. A Business Reporter there. And he has been one ever since. Went on to the arkansas democrat gazette and the Associated Press in st. Louis. While he was at the tribune in columbia he worked a story on tyson foods, and with that he became intrigued with the issue of Corporate Power, which has brought us to tonight. Chris is here for the second time. He spoke at the Central Library in 2014 on his book the meat market, the secret takeover of americas food business, how a handful of companies cornered the u. S. Antisemite money. Joining him on stage will he shawn welock who has collaborated on a couple of books including sly james biography and he was terrific if you were here interview thing former mayor in july about that book. Were honored to have both with us tonight. Welcome sean and christopher leonard. [applause] good evening, everyone. Thank you for being here. This is a kansas city native one more time. [applause] chris is kansas citian and theyre mainly kansas citians and midwesterners. We know what people on the east and west coast dont know, theres tremendous wealth in this part of the country. Were guilty of not fulling understanding and your book illuminates this, theres tremendous power in this part of the country, namely wichita, kansas. Thats rate. What attractedded to me how powerful and influential this industry is, Koch Industries ind how little is known and soak credit tim its not secretive in the james bond villain sense. This is an institution that doesnt want the rest of the world to do what theyre doing, its baked into what they do and how much they make so much money. So you have a massively powerful institution that affect everybodys lives. The special any kinds of businesses that unpin kissing. The stuff you cant boycott or live without. They rye fine the gasoline people use to drive to work. The make the Building Materials in this building, insulated wall panels, structures, make carpeting, the northwesterly our clothing, nylon, spandex. One of the worlds largermakers nitrogen fertilizer which is something most people dome think they beau bait it little bedrock of our food system. So Koch Industries isen gamed in businesses quitely bee quietly beneath the surface, earning stunning profits the annual figures are bigger than facebook, goldman sack and u. S. Steel combined and you never encounter the koch brand name. Never know youre engaging wives the cue. That true me it to along with the fact that when you write about this company, i feel like youre writing about the entire american economy, and even our entire political system because kochs to diverse is this story is the story of blue collar manufacturing works who might belong to a labor union but havent got an pay raise in 20 years, writing bought highflying finance year teams, earns millions trades deer rifftives and futures contracts. Write ought private equity dealmaker outs at koch whos looking for other companies to buy, they use dote buy and then pressure them to boost productivity and profits, and finally writing about one therefore he largest corporate lobbying operation nets country, unrivaled in terms of corporate lobbyist. So taken together the story of the company over the last 50 years really is a portrait of Corporate Power in our country, and it helps us explore a lot of questions about what is going on in our economy today. Very early the book you talk but 1988, when the federal government, through thank you Indian Bureau affairs, United States governmental department, finds out about Koch Industries and what you illuminate theirs is 1988, million billion dollar corporation. Congress had no idea who they were. Some both thought they were part of cocacola and senting investigators to atlanta. Some people thought was pronounced kkoch. And in the insider of the insider that they war not known to the general public, they werent nope to the United States congress. Thats why i started at that point. The book opens with an fbi agent hiding behind cows surveilling the koch oil employee, and these senate investigators, when they started investigating this huge issue of theft of oil off of indian lands that the same reaction, who are these people . All of a sudden they come to realize the companies the Largest Crude Oil gathering operation in the United States and nobody has ever heard of it, and im remind of an interview i did with one of the very early executives of coke, roger williams, on a plane with charles koch in the late 60s, and to back up, we can taught bow the koch family, charles koch, but suffice to say, chivas come took over the Family Company in 1967 when their fair passed away and they were trying to figure out what to name the form and chose the name koch because it was the family name and also completely without character, hard to remember, and without description. They were not a Consumer Oriented Company that wanted to develop a brand name. They were a company that wanted to avoid scrutiny. Largely because they were in the oil business, and the theory of the oil business this opposite of the old saying, what guess for the General Motors company is good for the United States. Americans felt very differently any oil cries of the 1970s when oil prices shot up and companies were getting massive profits and coming at the expense of ordinary people. So the idea was, when youre in businesses like this, you sort of stay in the background. You say behind the curtain. And just quietly make a fortune. Charles koch is the second born brother but really they patriarch. Early in the book you talk about a visit, and this cuts both ways no matter how people in the room view charles koch. This cuts both ways. Wall street financiers and lawyers visit him and have the big pitch of taking Koch Industries public and heels not hes not interested. In your book its brilliant. He im putting you dub. You dont have to read it but if you could please buy the book i would appreciate that. Early on, and charles koch sends them away. And on the one hand you think, you know, good for my fellow kansan. Sends the new york guys packing. The other side of that is, theres an ulterior motive. Its they dont want to publicly report things and have sec scrutiny and want to be behold together anybody outside of the koch family. Yes. If i could back up for a second. And talk but the family. This company Koch Industries was founded by fred koch who lived in wichita, kansas and the 1960s he owned this wide assortment of assets, cattle ranches, oil refineries, pipeline networks. He died of a heart attack in november of 1967. His son, charles, was the president of the company and just 32 years old at the time. And thats when charles koch assumed control of this firm. From the beginning, this guy, charles koch, who has been ceo every instance that time charles koch became ceo when Lyndon Johnson was president. His been in crowell for 50 years, i know a november other corporation in the america which has been so shaped by a Single Person and a zillionle permit and he had a very clear idea of Hour Corporation ought to be run, and one of the key elements of the dna is longterm Strategic Thinking. This is an organization that thinks on a horizon of two, five, ten years out. And at the same time, they operate with secrecy and we can talk about that when we talk but the whole theory of trading, but charles koch knew he wanted to remain private, wanted to retain control, and he wanted to be able to sing not only in terms of quarter to quarter to quarter as so many corporations do today, he wanted to be ail to sink more longterm and the bangers came to wichita in 1981 from jp morgan and said take the company public. Youll have access to company and you will get 25 million tonight personally. A nobrainer and he sent them packing and i got the memo they wrote when they got home. Its like they were banging their head against the desk. Said charles koch does not want this cash and one of the fascinating things he told them was, if we go public, not only will he be answer theme shareholders after three amongst but people will know how much money or commodities traders make, and if they know how much money our movement trader makes they wont do business with us anymore. Thats very important to me. And if we could talk for a moment about trading, because it is at the heart of this organization. Its at the heart of what they do, i its at the hart how the think both in the corporation and politically, and the thing that really changed how i see the world was interviewing the traders. So, from then 1970s, Koch Industries has been one of the largest traders of Energy Supplies in the world, buying and selling super tankers full of crude ail, barrels of crude oil, shipping the stuff. Then they began trading these abstract futures contracts and derivatives based on actual oil supplies. So to succeed in life as a trader you want to know more about the world than anybody else. You want to know what oil is actually really worth today in the real world better than anybody else knows. So if somebody is willing to sell you a oil of bill for 50 you may know that oil is worth 352 so youll buy all you can at 50. Then wait for the world to wake up to the reality its worth 52 and youll sell everything you own. So, for this reason, koch realizes think be ons the most important resource they deal with isnt crude owl or coal or natural gas. Its information data and knowledge about the world. They were in a particularly good position to have knowledge about Energy Market because they ran huge chunks of the system. They would ship the oil into the coast of the gulf coast of the United States and therefore they could make a bet awe of the knowledge that a shipment was about to come in to the coast. At the same time they were very agrees sniff getting as much data and information what was going on in the world as possible. Lets do up to the year 2000. Koch hired away the bet meteorologist from the weather channel, brought them inhouse, to create internal secret weather forecasts for koch that were better than the public forecast, so koch could anticipate energy demand. Koch would tap into these databases of snowfall in california barks snowfall is an early predictor of reservoir levels and an early predictor or hide electricity. They take the dat and analyze it and use it to make trades out in the real world. So when this is your line of work, you dont want other people to know what you know, you dont want other people to know what youre about to do, and that is why theres such a wall of secrecy around what they do. Its strategic. The Company Built their current Headquarters Building in 19 2 and its a giant black granite welding with opaque windows. Its a black cube on the northern side of wichita, kansas, and they dont want you to know what theyre doing. This is the polar opposite of trump under a midtown manhattan. Lets say there are philosophical dances and permanent differences between donald trump and charles koch for sure. The term Koch Brothers this american lexicon if not the world lexicon. Theyre actually four, and its almost shakespearean the interplay with the brothers and i think naturally because hes the patriarch and has been the ceo since you said 32yearold charles, the oldest brother fred wanted nothing to do with the company, and then the two younger e, david who peaced and enand bill, twins, and bill wound up suing and in a long legal fight with his brothers and quite nasty. I think its a really sad story. The four Koch Brothers, the oldest leaves, charles is in charge and then hey that the younger twins and as you point out, the younger brother, bill koch, was never content with this idea his older brother charles would run the firm and they had an actual deep dispute over how to run the business. Charles wanted to plow 90 of the profits back. In bill koch kind wanted to live like a rich person and take money out of the company and buy big houses and have helicopter which he eventually did but the fought over hour to do this, bill tried to take over the company, get his brother fired. It failed. They had 20 years of litigation. Ugly, ugly fight. Bill koch hired detectives to dig through Charles Kochs trash, pose as reporters to plant negative sistered but this brother, and it created i think a real feeling of being embattled inside the company. Kind of a siege mentality inside the Koch Industries. In the 1990s. David koch everybody in the room knows passed away last week. Bill maher on hi show said and its been picked up by all sides of the media and im going to try in give a direct quote. Im glad hes dead and i hope the end was painful. The vitriol that bill ma her put and he is proudly hard core from the left but the vitriol, didnt said that when former president bush passed e. Outside of donald trump i dont know bill maher would say that about anyone but comes from in the whole idea that at least from certain perspective that the Koch Brothers are the absolute enemy of the environment, everything starting with Global Warming. I see that a lot. And it has made my job exceedingly difficult to report on this company because there is an atmosphere of texasicity and hostility and bad faith and distrust in and all the rhys of it that makes people inside the company extremely hesitant to share their story and extremely hesitant to talk. Thats one reason the book took so long to report, and i suppose as a reporter in general, i think its extremely unhelpful for our general underring of how things two, have such vitriolic rhetoric become such a commonplace thing, and i need to own my own role in this somewhat. I mean, very kind in the introduction to talk i wrote two else says when david koch passed away, one for cnn business talking about the Business Empire. The other essay was very critical of david koch and his role politically in delaying any efforts to regulate Greenhouse Gas emission asks i truly do think will become a large part of his legacy the world. On a human level, i think thats an awful thing to do to criticize somebody on the very day they pass away. And as a reporter, however, there was one hot moment when the world really wanted to learn beaut david koch and as it happened ive been spending years interviewing people who know david koch, looking at the Business Empire that made hitch rich, the political operation that he oversaw, and i felt like i had something to tell people both positive critical, and the timing was, as a person, not great, i woke up saturday feeling like garbage if im being honest but as a reporter your job is to tell people the truth, and tell people what is going on here, and the truth of what Koch Industries and the family has done politically is often obscured again intentionally because the political operations have imitated and grope from the business operations. I mean, theyre taken from the exact same blueprint, the sackett same playbook. What koch does not our politic ises just as obscure what trier dying in derivatives markets and its important to tell people this is what happened, categorically and a black and white way over the last 20 years and its very important. I i dont think theres any social issue more important in many ways than Global Warming. A cost we all have to contend with over the next 30, 40 years or longer. Charles and david koch really you uncovered this, bit of really sincere Investigative Journalism and youre the first to break this. Not only did they politicize Global Warming and maybe globally but how early they did that. I dont think thats ever really been fully understood how early their war trying to debunk the fearry of the truth of Global Warming, whatever political spectrum youre on, but started with the Koch Brothers. Yeah, and i started reporting this story for a simple reason. A few years ago i was interviewing a former senior lobbyist for Coke Industries and i wanted to know how they do what they, why theyre good at what they do, and i asked him, when you were there what woke you up in the morning . What was your front burner issue . What did you care about senate and he did not hesitate him said carbon. Carbon was the preeminent political issue for this operation. So maybe we could take a second to talk about Koch Industries and politics and what theyve done, because thats gotten perhaps more attention publicly than their very important economic activities. From the 60s, charles koch has had a very particular view how sew sight tooth be strike ordinary. What he he calls himself a classic cal liberal. Describes to views we might call libertarian that were developed by economies like hayak. I read human action so you didnt have. To its an extremely dense, long, fascinating kind of bananas book. Anyway, what charles koch thinks is that the best way to organize society as a voluntary market change system and the actual sovereign in a system has to be the price. Humans set prices by what they actually care about. Not what i really prioritize in my life and the price reflects that. And so you need to honor that price. And so there must be an accurate prior for health care for roads, education, you name it. All this stuff needs to be only done through free market and when you try to intervene in that system, with government regulations, with government programs, when you take money from the winners in an economy and give it to those who are losers in an economic system, youre distorting the system according those view of charles koch. He has worked diligently, patiently, i think breathtakingly in a disciplined faction since then 1970s, to make American Society reflect this view, and he did it by funding think tanks, he tried to stay away from corporate lobbying until the 1990s when the oil theft investigation came out and he realized we have to be in washington. If were not the, well be the old saying if youre not at the table youre on the menu. So in the 1990s, koch built a political apparatus i believe is unrivaled in america and it includes self components. And id like to say when i started reporting the book i thought i would be writing the political part, about super pacs and Campaign Donations and campaigns. Boy was i wrong. That is the wrong area to focus on. The real action always started the day after the election. When you get this granular business of governing down the pipes of the system. Thats where koch has its expertise and thats where it truly flexes its muscle. So to do that koch has built a multifacetted machine that includes the largest registers lobbying shops blocks from white house, been in thes of, very nice offices. One of of the cubicles had a sign on the side that says something along the lines of true power lies in silence. Absorb that for a second. Thats awesome. You so he have corporatelighting shop and then the constellation of think tanks charles koch has built and founded and funds. Cato institute, the American Energy alliance, independent energy recease, institute for energy reresearch. These things create and promote ideas. They seed the ground in washington, dc, which is stale pretty small town, and they mainstream these ideas that charles koch has. Next to that you have a network of political donors that charles koch convenes twice a year that sometimes give more money money or as much money as a Political Party itself. Huge money that can sway politicians. And then finally, you have this activist met cushing called americans for prosperity, like boots on the ground, nationwide activist network that can active slate team oknock on doors, fill buses full of angry voter. Americans for prosperity will charter buses from north carolina, west virginia, missouri, ohio, bring them to washington, dc, they get unloaded and given glossy protest signs, preboxed lunch. And then taken to very specifically targeted congressional offices to give their point of view, that support kochs point of view as well. So, what you see in this entire machine is the ability to not just sway and influence policy but to write policy to create policy. Theyve been remarkably effective at achieving the policy goals in washington and one of the key elements as i began this long they have recognized for decades that if a price is ever put on Carbon Emissions or that if regulations are ever put on Carbon Emissions it could have dramatically negative consequences for their business going out decades. Imagine having off of these bills of dollars invested in physical oil refineries, pipelines, the trading desks you have, the value of all of that. Could in fact collapse if demand for fossil fuels diminishes going out fruiter decade. So they have fought vigorously to not only forestaal and delay but to derail any activity in regulating Greenhouse Gas emissions. What i think is here in your book and its very sold Investigative Journalism and reporting as well as your authorship, that even though the Koch Brothers are massive donors to the Republican Party, this isnt the religious right. Has to are not social conservatives. This is coming from the libertarian free market viewpoint. My question for you is do you think they aligned with republicans out of practice ma tim for the business as opposed to political ideology . Thats a really hard question to answer. I got this letter charles koch wrote in 1974 wrote it to donors to the Libertarian Party and said im disgust third republicans. They are just as Big Government liberals as the democrats are. So, if youre you have the view i just described how the world ought to work no government intervention, the republicans were frustrating for decades to charles koch. Fast forward to 2005. Interviewed a guy who was the first state directors for americans for for restaurant he remembered going to an early event when charles koch sass the democrats are a lost cause. We are never going influence them, never get them to see our agenda. Were going to focus on republicans. We need move the Republican Party to where we see the world. Strict libertarianism. Antiregulations. Scale back government. Stop government spending. So americans for prosperity and koch focused that majority of their fire power on the republican part to transform that and the reason is they see that as the only viable option. David koch ran as the Vice President ial nominee on the libertarian ticket in 1980. Went around the country, donated a bunch of money, gave speeches, and won 3 of the poll. Libertarianism doesnt poll well. I dont think it ever really has and they realized we need to transform the Republican Party to achieve our policy ends. So thats why i think theres been a strong relationship over decade. Charles and david koch strongly opposeed president obama and the candidacy of now president trump. Where do you feel like they in terms of social issues beyond the economy that now Charles Falls on the political spectrum. On social issues or social issues, just beyond the selfinterest of what theyve done with the Republican Party in terms of deregulation and economic libertarianism viewpoint. Well, it must be frustrating because the project i just described thats been in place since then 1970s to create a premarket utopia in the United States is consistently frustrated. At the beginning of 2015, charles koch had essentially selected his five top candidate in the Republican Party that included jeb bush and rubio and ted cruz and then this Reality Television star comes along and flips over the game table and does so with an agenda that is at odds with the koch agenda. This America First agenda of donald trump is not coinciding with what the cops want at all. Theres a big part of trumps agenda they love which is dismantling dismantling the Administrative State, literally tearing apart the epa. Got the transition document the trump team took into the epa, and it is items one two, three, are carbon, carbon, carbon, thats christmas list for charles koch. But donald trump has shown he is willing to impose tariffs, tear up trade deals the immigration rhetoric is anathema to the koch network, so theyre pushing to contain trump where they can, and then help trump where they want to help him, which would be appointing conservative judges, tearing apart the Administrative State and we could talk about this. They had a tremendous influence on the tax reform plan. I want to ask you about the culture of Koch Industries. One thing that comes out very clear in your book, this not a fortune 500 company. They put a premium on outside the box thinkers and south out creativity, entrepreneurs, did not want company men and Company Women just coming in and saying, yes, sir, mr. Koch. He wanted people to challenge him. Always looking ahead, think can what happens in ten years, 20 years, 30 years, stark in your book is when they said, i would are we doing quarterly budgets in thats for publicly traded companies. Were not doing quarterly budgets and just like that it was gone. And. Its astounding. Shouldnt say thats public bily but im going to if had a moment when was working on the book and i thought i want to work for koch. And so everybody is going to hate me on twitter for that one. But its true. In this following sense, and i will get to the negatives and the downside later. But charles koch truly has built a supple, adaptive, entrepreneurial organization, and the example you pick out is perfect. They jet sonned the use of corporate budgeted in 1970s because everybody would write the budget and then spend three months trying to hit the budget numbers. Wait total nonsense. A waste of time and think how many people in publicly trade corporations are spending so much of their time trying to do that, and they just said, get rid of it. We dont need to bother with that. And it created this very actually complicated specifically codeed philosophy you will spent the first day you upin the auditorium in the basement learning the philosophy of market based capitalism. Learn the vocabulary and concept and directived and people at koch walk around speaking the language to each other that truly only they understand. When a guy at koch says, points of view, he doesnt mean point of view how you and i mean. When he or she says humility, they dont mean humility as you and i mean it. Humility means knowing you dont know a lot so when youre trading, cover your Downside Risk and be ready for negative surprises. Not like being hundred bell am a total strategy concept, and the corporate philosophy is so backed in and encoded. Charles koch himself said its a total conversion, either all in on market based management or youre all out and thats why the book is called kochland. Its its open society, its own ecosystem, its own country. Gosh, im thinking now about the first time i visited koch industry inside 2013. Just drove up to the front door and walked in. They rerefurbished the Corporate Headquarters in 2014 and one of the things they added was an enormous tenfoot tall earthen wall that surround this north site of camp us and now like a fortress. Ive never seen a corporation in one way more insular in the way that people are alike and in their embrace of this Corporate Culture while the same time explore more imbedded in evidence life of more and more people every year as the continue to grow. Its pretty amazing. Did you look at Koch Industries, theyre so secretive, going back to their father, fred. Theyve always had that culture of secrecy yet you were begin unprecedented access. Why did that it let you in . Well, first they said, no way because they googled me, and they said we dont want to talk to you. Read your last book. I said, okay, and just flew to wichita and spent pretty miss able week knocking on peoples doors and saying i really want to understand this institution, and the whole job is, you knock on six doors and get six s slammed in your face and then the seventh door opens up and you talk to somebody and learn, and you take that knowledge and knock on seven more doors and maybe two will open now and i think eventually Koch Industries realized, this reporting is going to happen, and we would like to have our point of view in there, and an extremely grateful extremely glad they did. They told me stories that are truly amazing. Theres a chapter in the back about how koch got in front of and exploited the fracking boom of crude oil in southern texas. It will blow your mind how thy did that and how they get hate of that using their analysis, and i only really knew that because i interviewed the ceo of the oil division, flint hills resources. So, it was a mixture of them kind of starting to open the doors more and be more willing to tell their story, and then on the other side, just got the nature of reporting which is extremely stubborn, prepretettive, phone call, searching through thousands of payment odd developed, whether its court transcript, government investigations and over time assembling a picture. Almost by nature, by definition, when books such as this come out not just on the Koch Brotherses but anytime youre profiling someone or a corporation, falls into one of two cat gordon, either a hit piece or love letter. Youve play this right down the middle. Youre a true journalist, whatever people residents political views are of the Koch Brothers, this plays this right down the middle was that your as separation for this book . Well, yeah, thats music to my ears. My firm, deep conviction, i know that nobody really cares what i think about Koch Industries. My opinion is meaningless. What people really want is just good information, and really good reporting. They want someone to go out on their behalf and find out what is going on and describe it in a way that is easy to digest. So that we can walk around with a better understanding of our world. Thats why i go to rainy day bookes every time anytime town and devour books because i want to know how institution that affect our lives are really operating, and what is really going on in the world. So, the goal with this book is to simply describe a super Important Institution and to use that as a way to unpack what is going on in America Today . Why is our economy structured in a way we can have ten years of Economic Growth and many people in the middle class dont advance economically at all during that decade. Lets start to look at those questions. So, i think the job is to describe, just to describe, figure out what is going on, get an accurate picture, get it on paper and into rathers hands and theyre going to readers hands and if thell be the judge issue is an an appropriate use or power. We want to live na a country where the economy is structured in this way or noh not. Im going to ask a few more questions and then turn it over to audience for questions. Two more questions for you first. Your book has had a lot of press. Youre selling a lot of copies. You debuted on them New York Times bestseller list on nonfiction. I looked at samson. The best i got was 13,000 for my ufc book and youre eighth or something. What has been the reaction with all the publicity from Koch Industries towards your you and your book. Well, Koch Industries we had a good well, i described the relationship. And in february, before the book came out, i sent the Public Relations department 260 pages of material to give them full, fair chance to respond. I said heres one everything thats bad. And i told them from the beginning, my role models are reporters and this is going to be a warts and all portrait if want to capture the brilliance and downside and the blind spots and they knew that. So they had months to respond. And they engaged. We had a lot of back and forth, and it was productive process. I think everybody would admit it got pretty tense at times. There were phone calls that got heated. But then once the book has come out, its been mostly radio silence and i think what kochs Public Relations team is trying to do is proactive live get out the story they see as positive. Youre seeing charles koch right up ads. Seeing a lot of advertisements on twitter and television about the Positive Side of Koch Industries. And i think thats just great. They should get that story out there. Its an important story. My job is an independent reporter, is to show the good and the bad. The consequences of their actions that have been negative, and the parts of the institution that are admirable and i think should be studied by people in politics or business. Again, i think our country is in desperately short supply of longterm Strategic Thinking. This is a case study of longterm Strategic Thinking and thats beneficial for anybody to read. I refer represented bill mahers comments, talking about this visit vitriol, and a good passengers of the American Public shays that viewpoint. As you look at the Koch Brothers, billionaires, working the oil industry, trying to influence elects. Those three factors arent going to make any american Popular Group think those are the main contribute factors to the fact theyve been vilified in large sections of the country or is it beyond that . Well, its complicated. Im sorry i shouldnt say thats but our media landscape is garbage today. It is a climate of permanent hostility and as a media guy, hes a journalist, im commentator but fully agree 100 . And the species that cannot survive are the Little Creatures of nuance and paradox and difficult thinks, and so that is one reason why when these people are talked about, theyre just presented as satanic. Cant tell you how many people theyre evil. Say theyre evil. Now, listen. This organization has had dramatic affects on pock policy net United States, a surreptitiously. The book documents crime theyve committed, crimes. In 1996 they intentionally polited wetland near a refinery rather than shut down the plant and lose money. And that was a crime. But its not helpful to simply, i think, paint things in a black and white picture. The question is why are they so demonized . I think that people well, its very hot in america right now. I think that theres a deep understanding that the system we hair it all the time. The system is rigged and the statistics on the front page of the wall street journal confirm that the middle class is swamped with debt. We have had a decade of Economic Growth. The games have been captured be a very small population of people. This is creating heat, this is creating antagonism, it helped elect Donald Donald trump so i k that helps describe a lot of the visit central going on right now the vitriol going on but to deal with the problem you need to diagnose it accurately, think deeply and its not helpful to try to find villains to use as punching bags. I know you want to ask questions so we have a microphone here and here. Im so happy youre brave. The first person to ask a question. Thank you. Plus applause. Its like thin dance floor, nowants to be first, this gentleman is first. Trying to be polite. Dont bother. Im asking this question because i genuinely dont know. Theyve been based in wichita for a very long time. This is a political question. So its kind of a loaded word control but how much influence did they have on local politics in wichita, and how much control i hate use that control but influence topeka because were talking local politics and im pretty familiar how much influence they have in washington bit im more curious local in our area how much influence do they really have. Im not going lie. I did not report on wichita, the city, that much, and i frankly think theyre kind of horizon is pretty big, and theyre a huge Corporate Citizen in wichita but i have not looked at the politics there. In kansas, the effect has been enormous, and i mean theres a chapter in the become that looks at the wind power sector in kansas and how koch has fought against that. A very conservative republican state nor from kansas named tom mockery who retired and tells the story of how he came to support alternative Energy Sources but watched kochs lobbyists dip dismember, take apart the growing industry in kansas, and of course the backing for Sam Brownback and the sort of vision of the tax structure that Sam Brownback had, koch was very involved in that. I think their influence on kansas politic is is tremendous. Its huge. I have kind of a political question. Youre at the right place. Right, thats for sure. The feud between trump and koch, do you feel like that will perhaps cause a schism or a civil war between, say, the economic nationalists, the religious right and the koch libertarian philosophy, that will cause a threeway brawl or whatever within the right wing of the Republican Party . Is that something that could go beyond the coaches and trump and get into the bowels of the Republican Party . Yes. And the way i describe it is that right now, a lot of my political chaptered in become happened literally in basement. I staff offices of the Hart Senate Office building, the longworth House Building where the machinery works, theresfight going on down there for control of the Steering Wheel of the Republican Party. And it is a tense, constant back and forth. Koch wins when certain federal judges are appointed and Mitch Mcconnell puts that through and donald trump is completely happy to let that happen. Koch loses when donald trump imposes these massive tariffs, disrupts the Global Energy system and global trade. So, it is a tug of war with Neither Party trying to completely breach the party. Where it goes i just have no clue. As we all know, donald trump has tremendous support within the Republican Party, and so it is as you have seen many, many times its difficult for politics to quoteunquote take him on. What is interesting is the people who are, the jeff flakes of the world, are very close with the koch network, and they stand up for the policies, and so i think 2020 will be a huge area. If donald trump wins, within the koch network they think hell redraw the republican father for generations. Mam . I have so many questions so ive got to pick. So the one i want to ask you is this one. I want to ask you about kochs treatment of his own workers. And i know that he didnt fall far from the tree. His father, fred koch, was one of the activists when kansas passed right to work in the 1950s. And his antiunion sentiments are like from the beginning. Ive read dish remember the book talking about a worker that was killed because of being poisoned and i know that Georgia Pacific theres unions and koch ive heard that koch tried to tell his worker how to vote. Can you comment on the things you ran across in doing the research in terms of the way he relates to his workers and his unions . Yeah, so predictable but please read the book. Labor unions and the story of labor unions and worker is is threaded throughout the back and played a much more Important Role than it anticipate in the beginning. Charles koch has been vehemently opposed to labor unions since the beginning. When the took over the company one of the first things he did was to break a union in minnesota that was very militant union. Nine month strike, hard fight. And then over the years, they have funded right to work efforts. I think they have battled that across the board. When you ask how he treats his workers, theres a cadre of people who work at the headquarters in wichita that would jump in front of a bus for charles koch. They admire him, aid mire the culture and thered hard working people that gave theyre life to this company. Then you have other workers like these blue collar manufacturing works in portland, oregon russian spent years report along Massive Distribution Center there, and its a rough picture. Got their labor Union Contracts back to 1970s. Had an outside compensation expert analyze. The they have not got an raise since then 1980 when you adjust for a inflation, working longer and harder hours ever. Somebody inside of Georgia Pacific gave my ten years of assist dat showing workplace accidents have been steadily rising since 2012. The workplace is becoming more dangerous for workers. These are negative consequences for employees. So, the picture is mixed. The picture is mixed and truly think it reflects broader trends going nonAmerica Today. Labor unions sure as heck have problems, had problems in the 70s been we you dom having 33 of americans in labor unions to maybe 7 where it is today you see the con against middle class work end of a very important part of the story. Thank you, maam. You have emphasized the degree to which charles koch sets the tone for the company and has for half a century but hes a man in his 80s, i believe, and is there an heir apparent what . Likely to happen when charles koch goes to that great oil well in the sky . [laughter] well, the way i like to phrase it, what happens when charles koch steps away. The chapter 22 of the bike is called the education of chase coke. Charles kochs son bornin 1977ish, and when he was born, the employees hung up a ban fer office of koch industry and said, welcome crown prince. Thats the burden the guy has had his whole life. Chase koch has been given a fascinating education in the institution from the age of seven. And for all of that hes a remarkably levelheaded guy who has also kind of forged his own way in the midst of this. So, to answer your question, i think well see an interim ceo after charl koch storms away and chase koch will run the corporation. The big question is the future. How many of this explosive growth that we saw over the last 50 years was attributable to an individual . And charles koch and how much of is it attributable what charles koch wants to point toy the Corporate Culture, the institutions in place if says the company will continue to grow without him and really only time will answer that question. Thank you very much. I would be remiss not to say that this is deja vu all over again. Okay. Your book, your whole conversation, is reminiscent of john d. Rock feller and william rock feller and you are the male the history of standard oil company. And if you remember, john d. Rockefeller jr. Had to carry the burden of wealth and oversee the empire of the standard oil company. What you conversed today has is the parallels are unprecedented. My question to you is , in light of my statement, have you ever researched the gilded age and some of the robber barons and a lot of the carnegies and the rockefeller and so forth and what parallels are we going threw through a second gilded age. I was nervous when the question started out. Didnt know where that was going and i appreciate where it ended up. What she did for Investigative Journalism never earl 1900s set the temp plate for what a journalist out to do. Deep, interview, documents. It was amazing. Im obsessed with that era and a lot of of the center koch land is an economic history of the United States witch had the guildded age in the robber baron age the laissezfaire age, an era of unbridled Corporate Power in america i call its capitalist free fire zone. The problem emerging from that, monopolies, workplace injuries, income inequality, is what led to the new deal of the 1930s under fdr. And that is the structure we lived under for maybe 3040 years. And the rockefeller money was so influential throughout the United States. Ways. He was actually [inaudible question] what we can say, history repeats itself. Capitalism returns to a meme where theyre again i believe in many significant ways and the question which path to take forward and theres not enough time to talk about it but we are in a state of political paralysis in government today. In an environment like that, the entities that win time and time again are the entrenched imdone women, thebiest corporations, like Koch Industries, so the question is where do we go from here i think . [inaudible question] go ahead, sir, please. In your opinion, does charles koch just not appreciate the magnitude of Climate Change or is he fully playing the climate denial for profit. Im not going to prethe end i have an answer to that. Aisle really honest. They would not let me interview charles koch on that topic. He has made comments. Acknowledge can the reality of human induced Climate Change. But what does he really believe in his heart . Cost he really think Market Solutions will solve this problem in i. I just dont know. Couldnt interview him but it but its a huge question. The one thing we can report and we can talk about authoritatively is what the Political Network has done and real world consequences and they have been unique and aggressive in fighting Climate Change regulation, even past the likes exxonmobil and thats provable. Yes, sir. Daniel of the green party and what do you think you think well if have an attorney job that will indict charles koch has the ecoside is becoming more and more of a reality and if we get a guy like Bernie Sanders in the white house . Well, i mean, i dont know. How about that. I dont know the answer to that question. Charles theres no body of law that i think would that would happen anytime in the near horizon but mesh politics is very unpredictable. Thank you, sir. The final two questioners. I raved by the news recently one the Koch Brothers died. Thats right. Do you feel that will affect their attitudes Going Forward and if so in what way . To be blunt, i dont think it will affect their attitudes. Dont think it will affect their corporation or political operation in any significant way. David koch was a partner with charles koch but charles koch was the driving strategic thinker, the driving force, animating force behind the corporation and the Political Network so as personally tragic as david kochs passing is to him and his family youre not going to see a significant change. The moment to watch is when charles koch steps away and chase koch takes a larger role. Thats the question of whether things will change or not. Thank you, sir if the final questioner go ahead, sir, please. Yes. Can you briefly comment on the Koch Brothers effort to make considerably large plate political contributions throughout the country to state legislature candidates. Absolutely. Heres how i put that. We talk about commodities trading. Koch affects politics in the say way it trades commoditied. It exploits its advantage of knowledge. So koch has built a map of political power in the United States. Picture it like a complex pipeline network, you have your state, the court system, you have the United States congress. Koch examines where it can have the most impact and where it can change policy and realized early on, political power in a state legislature is an undervalued commodity. You can buy it really cheap. State races might cost 50,000, and you have to hand it to this Political Network, they have been very forwardleaning in moving into state legislature, donating to candidates, actually literally writing legislation through an Association Call the American Legislative Exchange council, or alec, and koch was way ahead of other people realize thing power of this and the book talks about that. Theyve had a huge effect on american policy by focusing on the state level. Thank you, sir. So, chris, im going to ask you one more question. Outstanding audience questions. Im going to ask you a final question and then chris will be tribal chat, sign your books, talk politics, economic theory, all the regs. You started this in 2011. A massive undertaking. You certainly had an idea of who the Koch Brothers were whenow started. What is the biggest revelation for you on the other side of this book . The analytical rigor of these people. That i did not expect. It blew my mind. Ive talked to people who have changed the with a i see the world. Small example, these traders north focuses than shiny object. Theyre for cushioned on the underlying fundmentalsals and tt changed thick about life. What surprises me most is a reported on this was the an littal rigor and the depth of Strategic Thinking. Everyone one more time, chris leonard. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. [applause] and now more television for serious readers. The book is call the panic attack,down radicals in at the age of trump. The author is the associate editor of reason magazine, or reason. Com. Robby soave, who are these young radicals . These are