Of government. And with his. We have current professor of Public Policy with the National Governors association and during the Great Recession using the federal stimulus it was a cigar but also we have heard from the governors and that standard of the pre coordination effort but can you describe how that involved the governors in the federal government quick. So this was probably the best coordinated activity between federal and state government. We could start with that. What we did was Governors Association expo we had phone calls in each state to appoint the czar of the normal Budget Office. So we had weekly calls to troubleshoot what was happening. It is very important the Vice President but then we put out to the governors to put on the table with the conversation. Basically with the Vice President. But from the very beginning i was scared of the gao because after the fact. [laughter] that what they did is they got in front of it people were purchasing a number of steaks one of the state and some call that the radical left with g on it. What reason it was so successful that even with those worker bees and then the third tier to make sure we dont have any problems and to be successful hanging off these problems. I know through a lot of process and communications to do that to head off the problems and resolve them quickly. When i wrote the book the first time, it was in february i had made good heavy wool suit on and ushered into this and he said i can wait and that he said it will eddie , good to see you. I could not do that he said. But you have two other people he was talking to. Ceo in the agencies and those at the territorial level you could have the coordinator. So then a show that we create a network and then we make them all talk to each other all the time like the ceo. Yes sir. So i got the job and but when rahm emanuel was mentioned earlier we actively reached out to people in different states because they got things done on the ground quickly. On the strength of the administration we had 22 different responsible individuals in each agency because we had a call. Weekly reporting data and Quarterly Financial progress of progress reports. You want to point out but then they had a kick off here in so that is part of what is getting done and to get the money out so were you at that meeting . So were you at that meeting . I dont remember the date but that sounds about right. We were in the whole executive office with the amphitheater type of seating and Vice President biden preside and then the president came in and the message was very clear. We are relying on you. So thinking, there is an expectation that we respond quickly but you didnt want to be the one state that was the poster child for how not to do it may be to look then to implement that. But then the problems of funding. The government indicates is one of the best. But then you do create additional revenue dollar so it is part of the largest support for people and most people dont understand but it is impacting that this that they had to commit there so it is their money but yet it is 100 percent flexible but that is but in terms of medicaid but what they had also that there was not necessarily. It actually got more money. So but every state got something but also extra half a persons so in a positive way. Bed in one that you even talked about that earlier and then with that third week in february. And we got early april and then succeeding after that but there were still that i had to make sure it just wasnt the week after it passed so the beauty of how it was set up at the federal level. Our state is similar to massachusetts and california that marks the end he talked about with that progressive income tax and sales tax so revenue nosedived at the end or through 2009. We were able to access it makes a big difference having the flexibility. Also the state fiscal find that was primarily for educatio education. Can you talk about the benefits and the challenges and also maintenance of the requirements of there is evidence they love flexibility but this fund was less flexible. Very much. You had the maintenance of that and then to do that right. But then to figure out those details and we had those weekly conversations but when i would call the federal agency often time people another desk for two weeks. We were very communicative. And that stabilization many is because we push that with education to be some degree higher with other appropriations but then it allowed us to use the general money for other things. So the questions of unexpected obstacles from the physical processes or the administration but also state legislative and budget schedule schedules. You mentioned the fact you can work with the state legislature but. Most states it is more we are the downturn fall in terms to make the cuts with those tax increases and depending on where you are relative to the economic downturn. Some of the states already passed a budget for the year did not include administrative cost so he didnt have the ability to speak who became the irs commissioner afterwards but with the aid of one. 2 when we could create a category of indirect cost so people could use that for administrative purposes. It with those challenges that can exist if you spend money quickly you run into those obstacles that you dont think about when you are writing the budget policy and that is havin having. That National Organization of street one state controllers and auditors what is very helpful because they could see and let folks know what the Budget Office it was okay to do these things. Going back on the maintenance of effort, we had a huge fight and but i would say i remember getting that that Governors Association along with others there were five objectives in the bill and the fifth was to be sure that states have enough money they dont have to raise taxes or cut tax. We used that objective to lessen the requirement as well as if we loosen them it is easier for states. And it just delayed money we could get what we needed. But that is at a fund i have not seen. Can you describe what that is and why it was challenging . Its like pornography. You know when you see it. [laughter] essentially they say he is all we could be very with but with that deferred maintenance of expert. But it does have a flexible definition. This highlights but its a very long time to work its way through and get signoff and approval. We ended up across the board between five and a small working groups. So we would get with five or six states who hook up with the agency than they would have conference calls. And to talk about transparency and accountability. As ed mentioned is that transparency board that had a great goal. So what data points and the timelines and how important it was to you to coordinate the federal stimulus effort overall. Earl came from the interior department he was is one of the hard asked inspector general. [laughter] he was a really nice guy. He put people in jail in the interior department. We could not have had a better guy running it. At least once a month oneonone and then both set out to create a system so that you could find out by zip code where the money is going and unfortunately the treasury decided not to continue that system there were 99 Data Elements reported by contractors or state and local governments and that 99 data came directly and they would give me a disk and then and after they were already made public and then one hour before then with the sheriff so we had to go as my cleanser but by and large totally transparent and that is the congressional deadline. This is what kept me awake at night. I was always call one scared you get a call but thats different from what they have experienced. Yes if not it was one of the most frustrating piece to implement. For go but they are but then they put out a ranking so to go down to the subcontractor level to make sure we got the data in time not want to be the one spending money and not accounting for it. One of the things we talked about was technology at the time with this online or realtime reporting was new. But that is when that effort began in my successor continue to this day. Where is an area or two of the biggest problems . Was in an Organization Program and that was of those with the block grant people that could contract for 500 houses or others had three or four. And then with five years as opposed to two years i would keep it that i remember that was the biggest backlog to get money out to. Im not sure we really broke through. But then there was at the same program it had been around a long time. And then to go for max to ten x with that was really hard. That speaks but you talked about the fear of having a scandal reported who were gone are we watching at the time and were worried about . Weekly twice a week hearings in a joint committee of the legislature i probably spent more time in public hearings than anything else. So the Media Coverage and the outreach meetings also and the ngos. But it was a high level of scrutiny and worth a lot of money and i should be able to figure out but there was no republican support. Zero republican votes. So they would launch grenades continuously. And two of them one from the white house but then the whole world stood by. In montana it was creating jobs. Im sorry but it just works that way. Some republican governors even considered not accepting it pickle i look i worked for republican governor whom i had known for years and he was a huge critic and then he appoints me. And then points to me is the stimulus guy so i have to be careful and to say this is a terrible program. And then to navigate politics through the chief executive and then to turn down less money from leaking underground storage tanks. And he turned it down in the press statement we have had 12 governors call led by cuomo they were happy to line up and take it please. There was some of that but it wasnt as big of a problem as it was at the congressional level. As i was we get calls every once in a while we have had several conversations. If you want to call the chief of staff or the governor and then then to say it was a godsend. I dont ever remember that happening. There was a lot of realtime flagging of potential abuse and. Do you think that is only then those that are working with an agency that have the biggest problems and then to be involved. That higher level as far as i know not much of that is happening. That then those services over here and over there. They increased the national falsehood dash center that meets and they know exactly what they are supposed to do we have to coordinate with their counterparts at state and local levels. I have watched two of them from my back porch and it is amazing that its part of the National Welfare center but fema should have the same thing. I am not sure that they do. We want to encourage people to start writing down your questions now so we can incorporate those into the discussion. But clearly. But i will say this success but that was a significant accomplishment. Just to give you a sense we got four. 7 billion but by august we had already received 800 million. So despite the frustrations to figure everything out at the time, i thought the process worked so i look back at the reporting mechanisms i much more charitable today than at the time but it was the right thing to do. But then to cooperate. To things that stood out to me one before the and the second fiscal year that is and i have known this for a while which is he nuts . But then to move out that quickly that the second i was talking earlier that some of you may remember from. And all of our lives. [laughter] i remember that also. We could buy a legislation did come to work rather quickly. But also on a number of other areas and then aimed to the legislature. You did not talk to the mayor. Those that then to be fined 1 billion out of the hundred billion that went out. It was a big deal but there are many things to consider when you are trying to past and make it work. Thats it. Is there anything that should have been included in your stimulus package that wasnt . It was an awful lot of money but then other than trying to cobble that together with existing funds. But obviously but that within but it is true and that message that was offended quickly. But that relatives of the comment is the appoint of the Realization Program but then some of those longerterm goals of broadband and rail but the good news is because it lasted so long, that is back from the historical message but during that period , to get down to the two tenths of 1 percent. Ideally to build in Structural Reforms to consolidate but if you dont have enough revenue trying to maintain the safety net that is incredibly difficult to do. So can you speak to the era of the state budgets after that started to trend out . Particularly with the social safety net programs. And in our case there was one timeline so after the 2010 elections and the successor and upbringing taxes with all the money that left through the stimulus and then to continuing the maintenance effort. Minnesota went from seventh to third avenue income tax. And this is not a cyclical downturn. I have wrote a letter to governors to say it would take years to get back to that spending. Im not a genius everybody can do that. Meant to stretch that out. And then having said that and during the financial meltdown but then the states really struggled. Given your previous experience i would not wish if i on a financial crisis on this but that would be more problematic. The first significant hurdle when you get a deal to come together. And that is very very tough. And from those liberal democrats you cannot get from here to there. You have to do a lot of work on the implementation side. I think the risks are much higher now to do something effectively. Obviously im not an economist but comparing this to 2009 we had it recovered from 2003. The revenues had income back or to build up the Budget Reserves and 2009 what is worse i think a lot of states have learned in minnesota has a huge Budget Reserve that at least mitigates these issues. When president bush came in in that capacity with those stimulus and then now we face a trillion dollar deficit. And the jet to deed gdp ratio best on a good place to start the stimulus. So who do you get to the state lawmakers do you feel it would not be as generous . And the governor has talked about it and i would build that into a statute at the state level that certain percentage to go into Budget Reserve but i would do something to be responsible enough to do that. And then to take care of themselves. Second i want to through the stimulus coordinator process. That wasnt necessary we use the existing structures. Because and everybody thought they had two jobs. So at the time there was a lot of criticism and i want to do that. Those of the two obvious things in my mind. I spent a fair amount of time around 11 percent. The average now is for 5 percent. But to say you have pretty large if the fed needs to get their act together. The likelihood or potential for the first stimulus . Been the stimulus bill was passed not to have a Republican House but then to get that bipartisan agreement it will not happen in one month so we have to pre position on the hill. Somebody has to reach out to these committees and to the finance committee to say is likely this will happen someday are you talking to states this is the beginning of the garden of that the stimulus can grow. So to give ed as broader Lessons Learned but what about the others . Yes. Respect. Respect each other. Upward north and all the people we spoke to with the counterparts. And that hostility to the federal and state governments. You have to deal so to look at how the states are. And to be very transparent but they have to communicate with each other that was very important those have to take place as well. I agree. If that attitude is here today there was a real fear of what was happening and then to talk and cooperate to figure it out. And so the communication was really important. But we never could of got the money out like we did. Like the feds or the state for lack of a better term so that when this happens and the money becomes available this process will come into play so if you think about it before it is even it was nice to do it ahead of time but the playbook in times of economic downturn which we hope will not happen but with that realism that something will happen but then to achieve everything with the stimulus package is to get the money out and then a release of final statements you want to say . Mimic everything you said everybody has said it. [laughter] and but that the release and analysis looking at where they are and look at the ethics of the state budget that is ten years and hopefully to continue conversations how to prepare for the next downturn so the state policy makers should there be another stimulus or just to navigate those other challenging aspects. Thank you so much for attending and for your questions and keep in touch thank you. [applause] [applause]