Transcripts For CSPAN2 Christian Keller The Great Partnership 20240714

Theater at the National Archives. I am chief of the archives. And that is just a fancy way that we run a lot of the public spaces on the other side of the building. He sends his regrets that he could not be here but his presence was needed at another one of the facilities. I will gladly steal his signature line and say welcome to my house. Im pleased you could join us whether you are here in this room today were here to listen to christian be keller. The Great Partnership Stonewall Jackson and the fate of the confederacy. He became the director of the military history program. With the american civil war. In the germans nativism ethnicity and civil war memory. In the inter induction to the book. They relate clearly and concisely several things including the value of this book the four doors with the text itself. As an archivist. With the interpretive value. And the reliability of source material particularly confederate related sources. Versus poorest postwar sources. This military history takes you through a chronological telling of a relationship between this military history takes you through a chronological telling of a relationship between after the battle of chance. He also provided what i would describe as the bonus chapter. In appendix that provides insight on leadership from the partnership between lee and jackson. You can tell where he teaches before we hear from dr. Keller about his new book on thursday august 8 at noon Douglas Waller will print sent a lecture. The secret war to save the nation they will describe the exploit exploit please visit our website for more information about National Programs and activities without further ado please join me in welcoming dr. Christian keller to the stage. Good afternoon everyone thank you for the introduction i would like to think also, mastic doug swanson in the staff who are running the art of in the audiovisual component even very helpful and i cannot have done it without you. I would also like to think back at the Army War College one of our departmental tax without whom i cannot have put this presentation together shout out to tamika back home and all of the staff in the department of national security. I spent many hours working in the National Archives previously to come back in this particular way is quite gratifying. Im very happy to be here. As a heads up to how i will proceed. Im going to read for a while and provide some background to the book into my feces that trevor mentioned and we will break into the slideshow. He will get two different presentation styles each mimic in many ways the two different presentation styles that i utilize. I would just like to say my words are my own and do not necessarily represent the thoughts for official policy. The Late Afternoon sun may 10 1863 was warm and pleasant filtering through the young trees of the well. In creating a quote of light bright and dark spots. They focused on the young struggling to unfold itself in life there it landed on up burned corpse. Spring have come to Central Virginia but so have the war shattered rifles. Broken canteens and even the jagged remains of the drum. Down with a small group of men were galloping full speed towards fredericksburg. Desmond have just been at the home of Thomas Coleman chandler who lived in a small hamlet on the richmond railroad. All that sunday they waited outside a small frame house on his estate and prayed for the man lying on the net bed inside offering supplication almighty that he may be spared and returned to duty. The have not been answered just the day before the ailing leader his friend from his bedside to the army headquarters. His mission was to conduct sunday morning worship of the truth as usual lacey preferred to stay but jackson insisted. The spiritual welfare of the men was paramount regardless of what happened to him. The chap dutifully five. Of hundred soldiers 100 soldiers and their Army Commander robert e lee. The great victory had been achieved primarily by jacksons attack on may 2 and now at the height of his military success leaves faced the possibility that his most trusted lieutenant and advisor might soon leave his side. We ask lacey to quote my regards and say to him he has lots of left arm but i my right arm. That was three days ago when jackson has amputated arm healed nicely. A secondary infection pneumonia. And now despite for prayer lacey had to to his commanding general of the year. The normally stoic league lee was surprised and visibly shaken at the turn of events and visibly shaken at the turn of events in general jackson would recover before the church service. God will not take him from us. Now that we need him so much. His faith and his subordinates recovery seemingly strengthened by the chaplain sermon lee approached him afterward and said i trust you will find him better. Tell him i prayed for him last night as i never prayed before. Lacey saw through them. You could say no more insight of the troops they turned away with overpowering emotion. The horses fatigued. They rained in at the headquarters about 5 00 and half enhanced approach in what Immediate Reaction he may have exhibited is unknown. But the response from the soldiers in the ranks was immediate. The sounds of merriment right away as what if the angel of death himself had flapped his muffled rings wings over the troops. Mournful, stifling and oppressive as a funeral pull to send it over the camps. The veterans of the seven days some of whom had even fought with jackson in the valley cried like a baby. In a simple message. It becomes my calling duty to announce to you the death of general jackson began. He continued for a few brief sentences that described the transfer of the body to the capital and then abruptly ended the wire. The next day he issued general order number 61 to the army and attempt to the grief pain over it, but the messages tone of no doubt that he was still in shock. The daring skill and energy of the great good soldier, by decree of an old wise providence are now lost to us, but while we mourn his death, we feel his spirit still lives and will inspire the whole army with his and indomitable courage and unbroken confidence in god as our hope and our strength. Let officers and soldiers and delete his determination to do everything in the defense of our beloved country. Having newly erected the bold public front for the benefit of others, privately the Army Commander cannot check his emotions when he attempted to speak about jackson to william in pendleton, that same day he broke down in tears and had to excuse himself, the strong religious faith the help cement the bond between lee and jackson godly comfort in the great despair and he wished the entire army to know its effects. Yet his prayers, those of countless others have not seen jackson and his death left a great void, one with strategic consequences for the cause lee dependent. Privately he confided to his s son, it is a terrible loss, i do not know how to replace him. On may 11, president Jefferson David reinforced with a simple telegram from richmond. A National Calamity has befallen us. Faith would helpfully move forward personally but the death of jackson was a professionally mortal blow from which the confederate chief in the confederacy would never recover. At the heart of this book are for historical feces, forced trade first the team was successful because it is rooted in personal friendship underpinned by trust and shared religious faith. Initially, the personal relationship was weak, longdistance, and tentative and was drained by jacksons poor showing during the seven day battle in richmond in june 1862. But by the end of the winter of 1863, it had grown into a powerful bond that cemented the strong professional relationship, even enhancing it. Second, it was within the unique relationship that the most successful element of confederate strategy in the Eastern Theater, first germinated were implemented and will jacksons death permanently stay need. Jackson in essence became his chief advisor as well as his preferred operational lieutenant. Lee intern was Jefferson Davis primary source of strategic advice and a well substantiated literature. Third, jackson was itself, a strategic level leader, a general who thought early in the war about how to win it for the confederacy, offering numerous suggestions to lee, the president and others that rank higher than its own and even dabbled in policymaking through his relationship with congressman. And fourth, with Stonewall Jacksons death following the campaign, in 1863, the confederacy suffered a strategic inflection point, a contingency that held momentum implications for the future of the young nation. Spanning all for historical arguments is a larger observation that has significant for Business Leaders today and in the future. The command relationship, chief leader and chief advisor is supremely important, especially at the highest level of responsibility. Because it is within the boundaries of the association that that strategic ideas, the one that when wars and save corporations princes, are created. Every senior leader, needs a trustworthy advisor or group of trusted advocates, without relationship is founded on personal friendship or religious faith, it is strengthen when it is absent or broken, the implications can be great. In war, whether modern or historical, there are theoretically several levels of command and leadership, each of which affects the others. Occasionally events occur that witness a conflation of the levels of war, what is the nexus point. Tactical actions for instance they determine operational outcomes which in turn might strongly affect theater strategy or national strategy. And for those who may be confused at this point, i will show you slides that will clarify their shortly. The history of the civil war all the levels of war were aptly just as they are today and although its participants they not have used the same as modern practitioners, they implicitly understood the different layers of command and control and had at least a common sense of understanding of how the interactive. As in modern war, however, the confederacy Senior Leaders made mistakes, sometimes using the levels together accidentally or applying ideas and concepts workable at one level to another. This is due in part to the weak theoretical education they received at west point in the military theory at the time which was instant angel flux. With important works such as on war, not yet translated into english. We should not alter him for their heirs however. The leaders of both the union and the confederacy made the decisions that they thought best, based on what they knew at the time combined with their personal experiences, personalities and command structures. Much as we still do today. By the winter of 1862 63, the Eastern Theater of operations, the states of the confederacy east of appellation amount were critical theater for hopes for national independence. If the war was to be one, it needed to occur in that theater and that meant the Union Principal field army, the army of the potomac would have to be decisively defeated. Robert lee had tried would jacksons assistance throughout the spring, summer and fall of 1862 to affect the very result, but several good opportunities alluded him, civil war armies were notoriously difficult to destroy in the field, a reality that lee and his command team, ultimately consisting of jackson, james, and james brown painfully came to understand, time and again, during the 70s before and after, and fredericksburg, they had realized the challenges in transforming tactica tactical, operational victories into strategic ones. Each of these successful campaigns lee jackson discussions both private and in consultation with the other leaders molded confederate theater strategy attempting to remedy the significant problem. Jacksons early strategic thoughts in late 1861 into the spring of 1862, about reading the north and bringing a hard war to the enemy were not only wise counsel for lee, and then as davises military advisor in general in chief, but also reflected the strategic reality facing the confederacy, the loss of much of tennessee, the Mississippi River valley, and Northern Arkansas by mid1862 meant that recovery in the Western Entrance mississippi theaters was unlikely. There the confederacy could only hope to delay the inevitable but in the east the war could feasibly still be brought to a successful conclusion and you then. Opinions focused on the east and could be more influenced by the battlefield. Union morale could be directly affected by damaging graves and danger for the political and future elections. In manufacturing centers, you could be so disruptive, thereby undermining federal logistical power. Jacksons correspondence with lee before he left the Shenandoah Valley between what became known as the Peninsula Campaign for the seven days in june 1862 revealed a strategically for with thinking mind, one that quickly made its mark on the future commander of the army of Northern Virginia and influence the operational thought, the remainder of the war. But lees personal preferences combined with the contingencies of the political arena, he had operated. Managing the ones the primary eastern army. It meant that he could not immediately, unconditionally accept his thoughts. Obviously the union army dictated many of his actions, loyal and frank, jackson first endeared himself to lead as a military professional who can effortlessly follow his intent and achieve operational objectives, sometimes late but never failing the general earned lees respect for his performance in the cedar run, and Sharpsburg Campaign and ensuring his lackluster performance in the seven days was viewed as an anomaly. Even then however, he began to confer regularly with lee and started the process of building personal trust. That trust in turn was buoyed by issue devotion to evangelical protestants on. Although approaching their christianity on different perspectives, jacksons unswerving adherence to gods laws and spreading of the gospel among his troops made a strong impression upon the deeply religiously who by the winter of 1862 1863 was attending worship this with jackson. Tucker lacey, an old friend of jacksons brother by the general to serve as a chaplain in the spiritual reforms that they walked together were instrumental to the development of the religious bond between lee and his subordinate. This connection in turn strengthen what it become a strong personal friendship during the winter encampment outside of fredericksburg. By the time there was no campi camping, jackson had superseded james long street as lees primary lieutenant and along with stuart was integral in helping the commander general achieve victory over the federals against long odds. Yet, fickle chance intervened in the woods of the night of may 2, 1863 as it had so many times before and against lee in previous campaigns shot accidentally by his own men. Stonewall was dropped twice from the litter carrying him to the rear and surviving the amputation of his left arm succumbed to pneumonia ten days later. It was a personally crushing blow for lee who lost not only a man who become a close friend but also his chief Strategic Advisor and battlefield operator. The damage done to the confederate war effort was perceived by the confederacy from Jefferson Davis all the way down to common citizens in texas and even little children. Regardless of postwar confederates who attempted to use his death as a lost cause excuse for rubble defeat, his sudden demise was a strategic turning point in the war and recognized as such at the time. This reality became clear in the ensuing Pennsylvania Campaign when it was apparent that jacksons absence left a gaping hole in lees command team and badly impaired. Tragic cascade of secondary effects impacted the results of operation and insured the failure of these new theater strategy with ease. That in turn hasten the final defeat of the confederacy so at this time, im going to turn to some slides and i will hopefully answer questions that you may have in your head after hearing this introduction and i will give you a brief primer on classical military theory which is infused throughout the book and serves as a fundamental basis for much of my analysis of the lee jackson relationship up at the top you see carl which whom i mentioned and his principal fundamental theory the continuation of policy by other means really directs in many ways, the actions of both lee and jackson in their attempt to win the war for the confederacy in the Eastern Theater both lee and jackson understood that with little act and in turn influences a policy and politicians and political decisions and hence my argument that lee was constantly trying to win the victories that could make the northern were all suffer the point that northern people would doubt the ability of the union to persevere in a context. In jackson very much agreed with him in this regard and also a bit more aggressive and wanted to bring hard work into the north which would punish the people of the north for attempting to subdue the rebellion. That there with a red stool in it, it illustrates one of the fundamental strategic theories that we teach at the college, and representing objectives and strategy, ways to the concept or the message employed to reach those ends and means other resources that are employed in the ways to reach the ends in many ways the waves are considered strategies that connect the resources in a workable way to achieve that and of a strategic operation. Below that you see, the elements of national power, the instruments of national power, the diplomatic informational later in economic at the Army War College and other Senior Service colleges might use other acronyms in the extended time into other instruments and that is fine, we think pretty much everything is encapsulated underneath the four major instruments of national power, that in the civil war as today were exercised and utilized by National Government and their attempt to win a war. The war is not just about winning militarily, it is about the diplomatic aspect, the economic power that supports military operations and then the informational impact which often influences decisionmaking and democracies. And then we see the levels, there are three fundamental levels of war, the Strategic Operational and tactical, they are very clearly how we align those, notice there are areas where the intersect and i argue what many of the dod are arguing now, even tactical level can reach upward and intersect with the strategic so theres are these nexus point where something at the tactical and battlefield level can have profound strategic level affec affects, below the war winning level of strategy, one might call perhaps National Military strategy is theater strategy, i speak a lot about that in the book and also my prelude. This refers to the strategy that particularly is designed for the theaters of war and the americans of war. Ideally they would be orchestrated to Work Together towards the political object that either side had a mind. Often in reality they do not and they came to understand that only in the east could the confederacy achieve those political objectives winning independence. And there you see a little triangle that gives you an idea of how the levels of leadership correspond to the levels of war. Strategic level leadership at the strategic level but it extends down to the operational level which is also where robert ely found himself operating and Stonewall Jackson when he was a commander in the valley. And then direct leadership generally applies at the tactical level and organizational is almost exclusively operational. Lets talk briefly of the ends of both of the sites in the civil war, i do this exercise so everybody can understand the context in which lee and jackson in this partnership operated. Because they did have a fundamental grab of these concepts even if they did not call them by the same as we do today. Obviously the National Policy objective represented by Jefferson Davis and in robert ely on the left as independent they wanted to achieve independence from the union, for the union or the federals, represented by Abraham Lincoln, and scott who will be replaced as general in chief, the primary fundamental National Policy was preserve the union, later as you know it was joined by emancipation as a national war policy or in. Lets turn to ways, at the national and theater levels. For the confederacy, the overall National Military strategy for all street major theaters of war was primarily defensive, the idea was they would exhaust the northern will to fight in the northern people being in the democratic republic would say enough already, we have lost too many boys it is not worth it anymore and then they would force the republicans under abraham again under power, an Additional National strategy in 1961 the early 1862 called the primitive defense was a complete failure and it attempted to defend all the confederacy and proven to be invaluable due to confederate means. It was replaced by what was known as the defensive offense of, a rough National Military strategy, as explained in the book, not always taken into consideration by all the theater commanders but thats what it resembled. And had more success, robert ely in the east embarked upon this method in his particular theater and the idea was a northern will the repeated United States armys and if you could get a strategic level to destroy the army of the potomac in particular, that would be the best possible scenario. Lee and jackson are constantly trying to get to that theater military and. But they never quite get it. The National Military strategy can be characterized as offensive, defeat the south by force of arms and utilize nutrition as ne necessary. This became prominent in the last two years of the war. There was also a plan that Winfield Scott came up with and was adopted by his successors with the blockade and you can see the great snake representing that idea and the idea that you will squeeze the confederacy from without while youre striking down inwardly. In the east, there were several campaigns designed to take the confederate of richmond, the on to richmond campaigns and they failed until 1865 and in the west, the major objective was control the Mississippi River. With the drive and concurrently through tennessee, ultimately those were successful, robert ely realizes as early as 1862 in new the pressure was on him to perform the miracle in the Eastern Theater, had to happen there if it was going to happen at all because the west and the trans mississippi were almost hopeless causes in his opinion and that comes from his original statement in the records. In 1863, Abraham Lincoln came up with identification of a Confederate Center of gravity, they understood what it was implicitly. The major kokomo power of which yet is broken will debilitate an enemy in war. In the center of gravity that lincoln identified and made the generals understand was a confederate armies themselves needed to be destroyed and after 1863, this will be his primary message to the field commanders, destroyed the field armies, do whatever is necessary to bring them down, as a corollary to this we see the hard war against the south and if you hit the home front you also be hitting the armies which are supplied by the homefront. When we turn to National Strategic means, these next two slides given idea of the disparity between the north and the south in the civil war and this is the beginning as the war progresses it just gets worse for the confederacy. Indicating to robert ely that the clock is ticking and he must act quickly and decisively because the longer the war goes the worst it is going to be as far as means for the south, he did realize if they could prevent lincolns reelection in 1864 and the memes would not matter as much but until that time, he had to find a way to win victory in depressed northern wrong because was lately obvious and you can see this for yourself, real world, something that is often mentioned a lot by authors in the civil war of very huge disparity 3 1, the mercantile power, the union with the shipping and again, what does the south have with just the fact has a lot of cotton. One of the diplomatic strategies was cooking diplomacy and the idea that the value of cotton to Great Britain and france would ultimately bring them in on the side of the confederacy somehow that did not happen of course. So what was the strategic situation by late april 1863, the second full year of the war and with jacksons help, robert ely had won the battle. He had scored a stalemate and forced to retreat, and had one very lopsided the fredericksburg, its important to realize that the campaign to quickly strategic defeat for the south include an operational victory of high magnitude which was to capture Harpers Ferry which was all jacksons doing. As i mentioned in the book it was a capture that solidified the lead jackson trust, the professional level of trust and lee realized, this man can do it, i can rely on him, he tried them out in previous campaigns and did not do well in the 70s in his debut and then did very well as second manassas and there is a period of time where they tried to capture a union army, not because of jackson, that did not work out. And now at the fall of Harpers Ferry, he has proven to robert, that he can be relied upon indefinitely to achieve his theater ends. In the east, therefore slightly winning the war, but in the west vicksburg is threatened, tennessee has been taken almost two thirds by union armies in the United States, federals are winning clearly in the western theater. Only small sections of the Mississippi River run great at this time. Most of the mississippi is under control of the union navy. It is also winning the d representing the diplomatic instrument of power very handily in europe as well as informational which is connected strongly and also within the unit itself and some resistance in the north but most of the union people are still resolved even after the catastrophic defeats that are really strongly reported, they will hold on and they will continue to support a northern war effort. So by me 1863, the beginning of that month, things are looking good for the south in the east but not very good and the other two theaters and overall the outlook is somewhat sleek and its in this context that the newest of lincolns generals in command of the army will seize the operational initiative and flank arboflank robert. He has now outflanked and outnumbered and what will be known as a campaign will commence. I show the slide to remind us all that at the strategic level it is easy to lose sight of the cost of war at the human level. These represent actual pictures taken on the battlefield, some are very familiar, the bottom one is a great iconic photo by Alexander Turner of the dunker church. The cost of war was becoming very apparent for people of the union and the confederacy and they realized that it could not go on forever. Lee is also aware of the cost of war, in his letter to his wife in marion he indicate jackson was a little more immune to the terrors and horrors of wars that lee was innocent the historical record that he was affected by. But both men were aware of the human cost that their victories had created. These are the Union Generals that have been defeated up to the campaign, he will eventually go down in the great march at chancellorsville. They will all fall to the lead jackson command team. Making lincoln despair, could he ever find somebody who could defeat these two confederate men. Up at the top, we see 1866 in jacksons cam. As i indicated in my opening statement, one of the fundamental glues that brought lee and jackson together was her undying belief and evenprotestantism as it was understood at the time. They both believed in Divine Providence and the idea that the war had everything under control and if you did not predestined events, he certain controlled how they ultimately unfolded. We believe there was an agency that was allowed within this understanding and people could choose to do right or wrong and if they did wrong they got spanked and that could extend the whole way off to the national level. He feared that the confederate people were not devoted enough to the lord and setting up idols of men instead of altars to the lord. Jackson was concerned about this issue and he did not believe in much as the idea of human agency but believed that they controlled more that lee did in the differences did not make much of a difference in how the two generals interacted and how they jointly understood the role of religion in their lives and in their decisionmaking. Jackson is pretrade a been a little too far on the extreme, he was on the one side if you will of the spectrum that most 19th century americans at the time. But not extreme as his previous authors made him out to be where pretrade. Robert robert ely was more conservative than jackson but both on the same spectrum and same site. The picture on the bottom is a modernday picture of the mosque manner where he had his battles into physical and he spent a lot of time in office and i have a whole tactic that describes this time. He was during this period that the lee jackson relationship was pushing and where their friendship with their professional respect for each other what they would plan to be the ke Pennsylvania Campaign. They plan together what would become the Pennsylvania Campaign during this time in the winter months in the early spring of 1863, the sad thing for robert e. Lee and the confederacy, jackson is cut down before lee can get into pennsylvania. Its a huge handicap for him because he planned the campaign with jackson. That is part of the reason that we will see the confederacy have problems and what will become the gettysburg campaign. There were three main areas of consideration that were at play, nationally in the confederacy at the advent of the campaign after which jackson will die. Yeah the virginia or the Eastern Theater represented by number three, represented by number two, and then the mississippi theater represented by number one particularly the threat at an expert. Robert e. Lee and jackson will determine well before the battle of chancellorsville that number three needs to be the emphasis. They tried to get prepared to move north before Joseph Booker in the army but lee fell ill and it delayed their ability to get the jump on the federals and instead he outflanked them and we have the campaign. After jacksons death robert e. Lee goes to richmond and convinces the National Command authority that number three is where the emphasis needs to be and they need to take the war to pennsylvania if theres any chance for independence. Davis had to be convinced of that. What was the lead jackson relationship therefore on the evil of the fateful night. It leads ultimately to jacksons death in the shattering of the lee jackson team, jackson is chief operator is long street is absent, he is on detached duty near petersburg. Jackson is lees Strategic Operational and tactic advisor to bring the war into the north, he is one of his few personal friends, the relationship is built on the foundation of trust undergirded by Christian Faith and jackson and stored the caverly leader are also quite close which created a solid level of second clear leaders beyond. In the relationship is fascinating and if you read the book, you will see how close those two men were. What was jacksons significance to the confederacy in the spring of 1863, he had a public reputation as the winning general and paired in the public eye with lee. The two together were understood by the confederate public as the winning team for the south at the time. His moral character was tied in the public eye to the righteousness of the overall confederate cause because he was a christian and this was very known and everybody believed that jackson represented the goodness biblically of the confederate cost. The public also understood his value for lee personally and particularly professionally as his chief lieutenant, he was viewed as a protector of the valley of virginia and had a very strong and rising reputation in the government, particularly in Congress Also with jefferson. They had a little feud at the beginning but by this time it had ironed out. But unfortunately, as i indicated they will intervene, jackson will be shot accidentally by his own men on the night of may 2, 1863 and ultimately brought to the house on the chandler plantation where he will die on may 10 depriving lee of all these things that i mentioned in the confederacy as a means of a hard piece of evidence indicating what the collaboration had done up to that point, the bottom picture shows a map of the Northern County of maryland in the southern county of pennsylvania which was drawn to jackson by his photographer who had traveled in pennsylvania before the war and knew the area and jackson wanted to have an accurate map of what would be the spring invasion. That map will be used by the rest of the confederate command team but this time without jackson when they do finally get into pennsylvania in june of 1863. I have a chapter that describes the reactions to jacksons death which really proves the argument, just how bad this would seem in the south, it was understood as a contingency point, lee himself said who can fill this place, i do not know but yet tried to comfort himself and others with the idea that jackson spirit be diffused across the country. Officers and enlisted the men in the country and said it was a National Calamity i chief executive and there were tears, some said gods will be done and some of them had words such as all hopes of peace and independence are vanished forever. That was a statement in a wartime letter and there was others like it. Government officials in richmond such as Jefferson Davis said it was a national claim ready. And he said his loss is irreparable. Three pages long had a eulogy to jackson in his report to congress in 1863. In virginia, particularly richmond in the valley, there was utter despair, he has fallen in a nation said one editorial. In the carolinas in the deep south, the despair was mirrored and sometimes exaggerated even more, the most serious lost we have sustained said one newspaper editor, a national claimant he was reiterated by another, he was absolutely invaluable to the cause they get another in one paper they said there is universal lou across our community, this was several weeks after jacksons death, it was persisting it went on for weeks. In england, the newspaper picked this up as well and one of the major papers, the times said assuredly the most fatal shot of the war to the confederate and yet to in the north, after his death generally cannot replace him, that was oliver who said that. Interesting. So my final conclusion here, is very visually invade. This is what the army in Northern Virginia look like as the gettysburg campaign. Jackson of course is dead by then and will be replaced by two other corps commanders, richard that is just a soldier, that organization i argued in my final chapter is what created the cascade of tragic events that resulted in confederate defeat at gettysburg. It was not that jackson was not at gettysburg, i want to make that clear, i do not state that. A lot of writers would make the argument that jackson had lived, he wouldve taken cemetery, i make the argument in the book that his death prior to the campaign beginning, makes the character of the campaign so profoundly different, if for nothing else, the reorganization of the confederate army. That the entire character of the Pennsylvania Campaign would be utterly different. We would have to corps commanders that would have about two weeks to get used to the new position of authority for the movement north. Anybody who has served understands when you put into a new position of higher authority, it takes time, nor do we have time to counsel them and they both served under jackson put a different command style from his boss. So in the end, what is a so what of the Stonewall Jackson. It was seen as a great contingency point strategically at the time by the confederate people in the confederate leadership and also directly impacted what was the most significant campaign if not one of the top three most significant campaigns in the civil war which would be the Pennsylvania Campaign in the summer of 1863, as lee moves north, he will not have jackson and that folks, makes all the difference. Thank you very much. [applause] and be very happy to take any questions and we remind the audience that there are microphones positioned on the sides. The human much for the talk. A couple questions with the general, when the legacy when someone dies early, they show up on money and other aspects of people believing in them what would be if he lived if you was not shot, and the crooks were lee might have said these other things you are not doing well and the pressure that we need to replace you jackson, for religious reasons or Health Reasons that he had that mightve been escalated as the war and 64 and 65 continued on. That takes into consideration, the major points that we emphasize just causation. As well as contingency. Certainly the army wouldve continued, i do make the point in the book several times that there were opportunities throughout the civil war in the east really had the chance to crush the army of the potomac. And these points eluded him for one reason or another. In the 70s it was jacksons fault that that did not occur. Would jackson have underperformed in the Pennsylvania Campaign . He might have and with lee have centered him or done something . I wonder. I tend to think because the relationship personally was so strong he wouldve tempered his remarks does what he did after the seven days. And it wouldve depended how bad the cascade effect wouldve been from jacksons weaker theoretical performance in a Pennsylvania Campaign that included him. That wouldve been very contingent kind of situation. I think that if jackson had really made a mistake i thickly the professional would have done something. What that is, i dont know. One thing we know from this record, and we believed if the command team of jackson controlling half the army in long street can controlling half the army, lee said he came down on record to Jefferson Davis after jacksons death, i have wanted to create time which indicates he was probably thinking about that before jacksons demise. I think he probably wouldve done a third corps. I mention this in the final chapter, for one arm stonewall wouldve made it into the north, he would not have had control of half the army, he would have a third, there wouldve been another greased and that changes the time stream thereafter who wouldve done what and when in the absence of jackson leads to that chapter in create a lot of things that happen in gettysburg that we know actually happen in at the end of this, not all of it but a great deal. Thank you very much. I am here because i have in my living room a portrait of Stonewall Jackson and his union uniform which was given to my family by jacksons widow because they shared a pew in the church in lexington virginia and i recently having returned home found a photo of robert e lee that is inscribed by lee by a relative of mine. So your talk was very appropriate. And interesting. But as my question about the religion, you talk about jackson and lee being both religious, how are they able to justify their stance in support of still verslavery given the religious background and what was the thinking of the religion of the time, this was the Presbyterian Church that they met at some really interested in the aspect. Thats an excellent question. At the time, the great denominations, the great protestant denomination who were split between the north and the south, the northern have biscuits and aliens obviously sided with the north intended to be antislavery in the southern episcopalians, you can do this for the presbyterians, lutherans and all the other major denominations. So the independent where you are geographically, you can find in the bible justification of pro or against slavery as many of you probably know, for lee and jackson personally, at the time in their context, they did not see anything empathetic will or contradictory for the ownership of human beings. With their strong religious group. We know that jackson, for a brief time operated a sunday school slave children in lexington, he may be aware that in the inherited most of the slaves from his wife and was in the process of and its the patient when the war broke out and completed. We know basically from what other authors have said, i steer clear of this, we know that both of them do not see slavery as inherently pathetic lot to the religious scruples. I think there definitely was and i will state this as a general historian having studied them for years. I think they knew, it was wrong in some way but for them loyalty and virginia trumped everything. It trumped loyalty to the union, it trumped any contradiction that might exist about slavery in the religious beliefs and of course we must understand in the context of the time that anybody who lives past the masondixon line, did not see the problem as we would today at 2020 hindsight. And one of your slides, the south strategy was to exhaust the north and at the end of grants memoirs, grant said if the south can follow joe johnsons advice and made the north continue to come at the, not when indecisive troubles but keep the north coming, the war would become so unpopular of north that the civil war would be theirs, what do you say that . A couple things, one thing grant neglected to mention, if joe has stated command had not been wounded seven times for instance, i think richmond wouldve gave out. In grant would not had a starring role. Also that first of all, we also looked at the record in the Atlanta Campaign where it retreated and gave up where could not be given up anymore. In this exhausted the political will of the richmond government ultimately resulting in his sake in egregious air on the part of Jefferson Davis is who you might know for what he did after words, exhaustion of public will and exhaustion of armies are two Different Things which is another point i would make. And lee has many modern authors in at the time george and grant also said lee attacked too much and lost too many men, the south could not afford it but that was what the confederate public wanted and needed at the time, they needed to have victories. Lee also on top of that understood in jackson particularly understood that if you do not win offensive victories, you wont be able to crack the northern will and exhaust the northern will, almost if they were between iraq and a hard place. The theater strategy in 1864 is definitely one of exhaustion but because he had no choice, his means of his disposal were that he could not do offensive attacks as is done in the previous two years, one reason he cannot do it because the chief operator was gone. That combined with the memes sets up ultimately the war which is what grant wanted. Final question. I just finished the first volume and was surprised to read that he considers the term stonewall applied to jackson as a critique of somebody who is to entered and not dynamic enough, what is your opinion . We know the moniker was a fly in for assets, South Carolina general who supposedly said Something Like their stands jackson like a stone wall rally around the virginias. Controversy surrounds what lee actually meant. If it was meant in some cynical just at the time, it very quickly transformed into something else, the irony that i found is that jackson really stood anywhere and really stood as a stone wall. And always flanking and marching and moving, he was an incredible new verb. It is really kind of ironic having studied him for years, you had the stone wall when in fact he should be called lightning man or Something Like that. He was always moving quickly which is exactly what lee needed. A followup, what is the source of his affinity for sucking lemons as he is fightin that has not been proven in historical record from multiple sources it is not proven, there is one source, general named taylor that wrote about this and briefly served under jackson and is not been cooperated and many other sources at least that im aware of. It is become a legend that he was sucking lemons a lot. It is not been proven that that was something he preferred to do. There are other funny things like sticking his hand in the air possibly for blood for chelation and that moment when he felt the urge, that has been documented in multiple wartime sources, i would not give it a huge amount although its fun. Thank you. Thank you everybody. [applause] tonight on the tv at 9 10 p. M. Eastern our interview with disability rights attorney and author in her book she details becoming the first graduate of Harvard Law School death, and how she would new verse recited hearing world. I wish students could go to school and expect the teachers to teach them. I cannot do that. I had to think about what i might be missing. What are the potential unknowns. How can i find those unknowns. In all my life, this process of trying to identify unknowns and come up with solutions. At 10 00 p. M. On after words, American University professor talks about his book, how to be in antiracist, he is interviewed by author and Princeton University professor, imani. I dont think even wellmeaning people or people who are trying to be part of the movement against racism, recognize really that the history of this time, so eugenicists, they said the segregationist were being racist, and they said i am not racist, today even white nationalist. No matter if theyre in the white house or planning the next mass shooting. Then at 11 00 p. M. , former defense secretary jim mattis recounts his military career and his thoughts on leadership in his book called on chaos, learning to lead watch tv every weekend on cspan2. Focus on the family as timothy recently spoke at the Heritage Foundation in washington, d. C. Where he argued that embracing christian values will restore americas political climate, here is a portion of that program. I will hear the following refrain from both liberals and conservatives from democrats and republicans and all of the above and none of the above depending on what day of the week it is. Here is what they say, i have never been more concerned about the direction of the United States of america. Secondly, they will say, i am particularly concerned about the country that i am leaving for my children and my grandchildren. And thirdly and most important, i dont know what to do. There is a comparable sense of discouragement and despair, as a christian i believe very strongly that discouragement and despair can descend because it negates the hope of god himself both in the life of an individual and in the lifeblood of an extraordinary country like the United States of america. To watch the rest of his talk, visit our website, booktv. Org and type his name in the search box at the top of the page. Here is a look at books being published this week. Supreme Court Justice neil court church reflects on his thoughts of the judge in a republic if you can keep it. In talking to strangers, staff writer examines how we misread strangers words and actions. Former secretary of state and executive director of the 9 11 commission, philip looking at the politics that were played at the end of the cold war and to build a better world. And power remembers her time as u. S. Ambassador to the United Nations to the Obama Administration and the education of an idealist. Also being published this week is open borders inc. And political colonist, michelle argues the open border policies are being pushed by people who benefit from immigrant later. Democratic strategist Stanley Greenberg examines the possible outcomes of the 2020 election and the gop. In the many lives of Michael Bloomberg eleanor recounts the life of the former mayor of new york city. In york times opinion writer looks the antisemitism in america and how to fight antisemitism. Look for these titles and bookstores these coming week and watch for many of the authors in the future a book tv on cspan2. For the launch of on the clock by emily