Author of the new right, what is the new right . Let me see if i get the definition correct. It is a loosely connected group of individuals united by the opposition which they perceive to be a veiled fundamental religion dedicated to principles and intent on World Domination globalist to germany. It is not a term they hear turn around all that much in the media today, what is a distinction. That a law is a subset of the new right. Its a must in porn are one of the most important issues in discussing. Normally the aspect of conservatism and in america, it is backwards looking, i would turn to the path in the 1950s and those type of values. How does that different for that . First of all i want to point out to conservatives that whenever aoc like andrea ocasiocortez, when they talk about how eisenhower and the tax rates were over 90 , make sure to remind them that they wanted to bring us back to the 1950s. Conservatives have a misguiding mr. Alger. It is a deceptive emotion, we look back at her own paths we think, there was also a lot of bad times, stomachaches, headaches, and not entering him soni. Things were great, then tht turn crazy and change. What i demonstrate in the book, progressivism has been on the state line from the content for a time to a nation, Woodward Wilson, the founding of the University System how it became designed intentionally to have a leak that will run america. It has been a Straight Line through and its a myth of conservatism that at some point things are good and that became corrupt. And the idea that we fallen away from an earlier pure state. One of the things i want to talk about before we get into the details, the timelines that we seen in recent years in terms of the right. The national movement, the constraint of conservatism that rejects libertarianism and in this come to libertarian on the right, is that something part of the new right as will questioning. That definitely traces roots back to pappy cannon campaign. It has roots followed back to charles lindbergh. This is not only resurgent within american, it is certainly very prevalent in europe in many countries around the world and basically the left does not know what to do other than paint them as nazi. I was interested to read it, one of the most prominent conservative intellectual voices at the american enterprise, founder of national affairs. He was participating in the National Conservatism conference. Something i think raised eyebrows of a number of different folks. He thought conservatives had come in recent years to be for two libertarian and brilliance itself to cultural issues as being the prime aim that they are trying to solve. Is that consistent with the new right . I would say no, and again, its united by the up position so they would be social for entered probamindset that is abt with the left and working with the system, that is what the new right. Progressivism, defining it in terms of our terms, do you view it as beginning in arriving out of the turn of the last century with Woodward Wilson and the like or does it take on a different character more recently . It certainly has changed over time, what a trace in the book that in many ways its a generation of the social gospel. It is a movement in the 19th century an early 20th century, instead of a salvation being a function, salvation is a function of a nation. This is why you have things like platforming and having people driven off the internet. These people have to be banished from the earth because they cannot be its a very direct line from that. In the book has steps which is where what would jesus do come froms. Its very popular, if you read the book which he recently did, the premises is a city, town and everyone goes through the movement where the assem cells what would jesus do in jesus agrees with what they happen to be thinking in one man is a newspaperman and in his newspaper he decides to stop having ads for articles about boxing because its barbaric and jesus would not discuss it. Its a Straight Line from that to contemporary, you should not give platforms to certain individuals, ideologies because thats legitimacy. Although they dont realize what the origin of this is. A passage from your book, the expectation of the overton window is a major observation our no it increased control for sensible conservative opposition. Explain that for me. The window is a concept of what can be discussed freely in society at any given point in time. In the 1800s, you could discuss the benefits of slavery and now days you cannot. Lets suppose you have a number from one to ten, and the left would be ten in conservatives one. The last mean ten in conservatives stand up to what history, compromise in the next election to 5 15 so team wouldve been unconscionable a few years ago and reacted further and further to the left. Iue say conservativism is aggressive like writing the speed limit and all of the great progressive accomplishments are now posted as essential to conservative thought 20 years later. Richard eli who was Woodward Wilson on tour, the major Founding Fathers of progressivism and human being said we should not encourage them to rise up and make them happy where they are, the last chapter is called, i believe in equality of opportunity. Conservatism at its best is about studying history and learning the lessons of history but many conservatives have not done their homework. The modern progressive movement, obviously as you say has changed from the original view, how much has that changed the character of the american experience. We talked in the past about culture were issues like abortion, roby weighed in the 70s and the number of issues that have trended upwards and downwards and time in the arguments over what we see in tv that happened in the 1990s over rap music and these other things. How much of that shift to the culture were helped activate the new right . What happened was not the shift but the awareness of knowing theres a culture were going on. In 1992 at the convention pat buchanan said it we are engaged in a culture where and everybody left, governor of new york at the time said culture, what does that mean, that is used in nazi germany, because thats only place where culture was discussed. And what happened, you have three and maybe four networks and you would think there is a desperate opinion across him with her all hardcore leftists searching for an idea with a straight face in suit. Thanks to the internet increasing this is not the bully to choose between different poisons. It is very much about living there, we all went to school about yellow journalism. The spanishamerican war, at what point, that is never discussed in school. There has been an antielite under current in the right that is focused on a number of different books, not just one from the right perspective obviously twilight delete and a bunch of other things. How much of this is a rejection of the elite generally of both ideological coalitions in the leadership over the past several decades . A great deal is selfdescribed elites and self elected elites. Theres also something called the circulation of the elites. James burnham at the earliest point where they had a thing called in one of the concepts was a speculation of meaning. When you overthrow an elite, he will not have the gal attorneys him, you will have a new elite and put that into realistic terms, what that means to learn clinton will always have more in common with george w. Bush than a janitor who has voted democrat all his life. So having an awareness that there will be someone in power and hierarchy is a right wing spot, but be something the two minds. Are more interested in the cultural side. But we should not ignore the policy. There is obviously policy differences within the right that are adjudicated in all sorts of different ways. Where does the new right come down and policy priorities as it relates to the federal government. There is absolutely no agreement across the subculture other than who the enemy is and the nature of the enemy. There are those who are complete anarchists and those who are internationalist in the sense of im going to be a citizen of the world in a leftist that i dont own allegiance of a particular nation and those who are Americans First and were going to take our country back. Across his job very little agreement other than who you are against. That is interesting because the press wants everyone to be painted the same where as when you sit down the people in the group and say what you want, some are in favor not just any monarchy of the defense. It is really hilarious, what you do with any subculture, how many different fractions there are. And people in the right think the people on the left, then you have the hillary, bernie sanders, they genuinely love each other. The pat buchanan element of this. Uas mentioned his 1992 speech, that was a cry to buy a lot of different people, not just the people on the left, it was often held up as the standard or an explanation as to why george h. W. Bush lost the reelection, i dont think theres anything to that. But he is someone who was solidified on the right after having been fairly popular in the past. But at a time that he was around in the reform party, he was being missed out by the current president , donald trump and Rush Limbaugh as well. How he goes from being somebody whos rejected and vilified and now being a prophet of what to come. Buchanan there very interesting figure. He teams up with in the 1990 campaign. So you can and basically was Richard Nixons first higher when the former president ial candidate was considering to run in 68. He wrote and he was there. He was not guarded as an old heartrate type of figure. But he became more cosmopolitan in their perspective willing that buckley denounced him as an answer some for some pieces that we can and have written and wrote a book about him. But many of these arguments are used against President Trump by many of the same people of the intellectual descendents. The parallel between the 92 in 2019 and 2020 are very close and is the same between the populist bluecollar right and the more urban coffee club and this happened, conservatives are supposed to be big in looking at the data. Every time from 1968 through 2016, every time they have run right ringer, then run and that includes george h. W. Bush who ran in 1998 and then they get defeated in 1992. The priorities as it relates to a reef formation on the right coalition. What does that look like . Because there is a debate going on on which people, the Republican Party ought to reach out to with the ideological right and in the wake of the 2012 election, there was a whole autopsy looking at the different people they ought to reach out to, how to reach out to them and obviously what ended up for them in 2016 was a rejection of that and the coalition that is not presented as a hypothetical. Do they have a clear idea how to remake the coalition of the rate . In terms of not worrying about washington and realizing where the posing starts. The other quote, very often republic is broadly looked at washington and by the time youre dealing, the washington battle is over. Your people going to Public Education in the universities and getting information from the Corporate Press but by the time and discussion your the Fourth Quarter down 50 points, within the coalition is fighting hollywood, fighting media and denigrating the universities which is the last step and basically it is not at all in the republican politics or regarding any sort of guarantee of fixing the country. One of the people who arrived in washington is the youngest member of the u. S. Senate. Senator from missouri. He is the first senator in terms of his age. He is also breaking of the orthodox on a number of different fronts. Prominently on technology and one of the most recent proposals has to do with universities, he would demand a number of different steps in order to make people whole if they were defaulting on the student debt. A number of other proposals along the length and seems to express a willingness to look at a number of other steps. Do you think of the steps is being implicitly part of a new right christian work. Anytime you have any attack its the right wing thinking. My argument is to seize all university and distribute the money because those are the crystallization of privilege. They can in terms of mitt romney which are fine unconscionable. Lets take the radical ideas and be is encouraging that are thinking critically outside the box. I wanted the other elements in the matrix meaning in the media and entertainment and politics. And designed to manipulate and control and limit your options of thought. The new right has been depicted in the mainstream and what i should say, the old corporate. The reason it is always Corporate Press and not mainstream media, these people are not mainstream, theoretically ideology. It is typically just as much of racism. Why is that wrong . That was not progressive, i will list including Peanut Butter jelly, milk talking to minorities, noticing other races, and in fact there is a great tweet that someone said whatever word you want and see if theyll be for safety about it in swimming pools, parks are all regarded as races. One of the focus on the new right, if you let the left define terms and races is one of the tactics, right away youre seeking approval and people not engaging in good faith. What are the other things, now its gone from racist to neonazi. Historically for these two groups is an accurate. You view this through a couple of different lenses and have a number of figures throughout the book. You mentioned a couple, who are the other critical historical figures and the progression in the new right . I would say the famous novelist, a precursor to this idea. It is not a figurehead driven movement. There are many people in the book i discussed the races, and, mike, milo, the godfather, the heretical thinker, but it is very much more than al qaeda then having this kind of the ten leaders who take them out and the movement that is going to go right. The Corporate Press is a trump phenomenon and got rid of milo in the movement is done. Its much more populist in its formation. This is a function of social media. Is the president a part of the new right . He is on the cover of the book. I dont know if you would identify as a member of the new right, i dont know how he views it is he aligned with them . Certainly. The way he treats his opponent with complete contempt and dismissal is intentional new right tactic whether its intentionally or not. Whether he trolls people and forces them, that is a new right tactic. How dangerous is the new right as it relates to the existing and Corporate Media and think tank realities in terms of how washington has worked . Not dangerous enough yet. Is that part of the organic nature of the system that they dont have alternate institutions to use instead . Your united by opposition. Because all you agree about is those people are bad what you want, we have seen this in england. So break the passes, a similar margin, we will get out of the eu, what is that going to look like and they had seven votes and they could not get the majority on any of the options. Sue can get them to agree to a broad idea but once you start, what will this look like, your seven choices in each will get the percent. It is not a governing coalition and you mentioned you care, will get to that eventually, to what extent is a new right particularly american phenomenon given we see these thing pieces and what were seen as a global race of nationalism populism and the like in the wake of financial crises and other things that have people upset. I think it be very convenient for people to see, he had a visceral attack on the near times when were from the new president of brazil as the trump of the tropics. He was talking about executing people, making jokes about it. Talking about military cues, trump is not even close to that. So to do everything as a function of the United States is very much a feminist that people have described to but very inaccurate. Many of the countries where you see right wing nationalism, they do have fascist the nazi roots. It is a direct line in the parties from nowadays to the 40s and 30s. You talk about the symbolism for a number of young leftists. Tell me a little bit about the effect that embraces that type of ideology on the left has driven more people into the arms of the right . He was a huge racist, homophobe it talked openly hes a machine driven by hate. And Hillary Clinton named her dog that, i will defend that,. The mayor of new york kurt under new york got trouble for quoting him in florida and not having the reaction he thought. I do think its true that they can be divorced and become a myth. The new right have their own corresponding who was the dictator of chile from 1979 through the 90s and he basically, there was a communist government and whenever the commonest government takes place, the murder happened and what he is known for, very dark humor then he took many of the communist open helicopters and threw them into the ocean. There you have corporate journalists on twitter. Instead of engaging, the response was simply be the helicopter. Shea, castro fed association of the violent socials. How real is that . It depends, you will have the ones that are known on twitter that are embracing this and people people who extend the tank. These are the fullness. And then theres those who have annoyed you. I made this point, when castro died, he died on his birthday, and he said what you want for your birthday, i think it is wonderful that we live out of the soviet union in a nation where people can be so privileged that they have annoyed you what living in cuba means or the soviet union. It is the fault of the right wing where we have told constantly incorrectly about slavery, jim crow and the holocaust that there is not any discussion or very little about what life is like under communism. This needs to be a montrose in the white ring. You cannot expect the left to talk about, the New York Times still as of this mornings praising the soviet Union Although they covered up in the 30s, why is the right wing not talking about what commonest means is unprofitable to. One thing about b cannon and President Trump, the rejection of what is typically viewed as a widely held positions of those in the procapitalist rights in favor of free trade. What do you view as the trade aspect and is there something about that particularly that makes it a new right issue, or something that is happening for different reasons. I think across the new right we have the nationalist and everything in between, there will be a very strong skepticism of international globalist corporation. So historically, the country called republicans would be defending corporations and now you see how lively these corporations are putting forth progressive without batting an eye. Regardless to what do you think about gay rights, pride month happens, the gay pride month and and then there is a shameless so she asked cindy to it because whenever there was something to lose they were nowhere to be found. And now theyre leading the fight to go to times square and rainbows all around. The idea, there is a big skepticism in international is a and globalism and that will tie into the National Corporations and their agenda. We live in area of comprehensive digital corporate movements. The kind of things you talk about where the organization incorporation has nothing to do with the agenda involved in the virtue single. And for instance i wish the info would spend more time talking about brain health and what theyre wearing. But to your point, it seems to me that is only when to drive people into the arms of the new right, that is a clear split between the chamber of commerce in which the signaling is something they do to increase their profit in the feelings of Many Americans of those embraces and adequacy are a declaration of picking aside in the culture were. Think how you thinking in the world you have to be if you would tell your cashiers who both hate people to talk to your customers about race which is a touchy subject in american culture. This is exactly what starbucks did. Instead of something that everyone can agree on, lets talk to them about being kind to each other. As opposed to difference of opinion. Host there is an aspect of that corporate work that i think we need to talk about in this context, which is that as weve seen the rise of increasingly aggressive progressivism on campuses, that started the flow out of the academy with influencing the lives of obviously students and professors and into the corporate sphere of the Human Resources into the hiring decisions that are being made. There are a lot of people in america who on the right are concerned about that, but i feel like there are also a lot of apolitical people concerned about it so they will say the wrong thing in context. Tell me how that is part of this new right phenomenon and that pushback youve seen. Guest absolutely. One of the ways is basically the idea became even video games you have to have this kind of progressive ideology. There is a 1960s expressio exprn that says personal political. Many people are right of center or left of center are apolitical and think i can live my life and not think about politics in the same way that i personally dont think about sports. Sports. Sports. With the real life, and increasingly realize, theres nowhere for you to escape. Even scifi movies, video games. Still, you cannot escape this totalitarian fundamentalist state. As that too many people, you realize they will search you out and make sure that you agree with them. That is what is driving many people to this perspective as opposed to the conservative perspective where its like well, no we are not that bad. Bad. That just means you will be the one shot glass. Host Corporate Media tends to like a certain type of story which im so sure you have seen samples of where they will be some new announcement casting the decision for instance they recently cast a young africanamerican actress as the Little Mermaid and they have to make the same ideas and stories over and over again and there were a couple of stories out there including a couple from the major media sites about the supposed that a clash against the casting and yet the examples they would use would typically be twitter account for social media postings from individuals not some kind of organized pushback wor or campaign. How are things like that contributing to the feelings people have about basically their opinion is always going to be built up to be a bigger thing than it is. Guest the average man doesnt want to be free. He simply wants to be safe. One of the way his progressivism dominateways progressivismdomins impression that all white people are progressives or they would have these articles give us a look, if you disagree with what everyones thinking, you are a freak. An outsider. The average person if they were picked out you are a target. Very quickly this is a subtle technique of getting people to fall in line. And the insanity of this kind of approach is will smith was recently attacked for being cast as Serena Williams data because he wasnt a dark skinned enough. This is an extremely racist mentality that has a truth to the 1930s and earlier, something called color of some curry there was a book by Wallace Thurman where he discussed these very bourgeois clubs for African Americans where they literally had to pay for back taxes if you are darker than a paper bag you were not allowed to be a member. And again, this goes to my thesis about progressivism as a very hierarchical elitists Straight Line from contemporary times to in this case the 30s and earlier. Host we havent yet talked about the foreign policy. Do they generally have a constant when it comes to the policies . Bring the troops home and shut down the basics. Its extremely antiinterventionist and that is another big unifying thesis and since the archenemy is the first president who went to europe and this idea that america had been involved in every kind of nation states in the continent this is the exact opposite we have to worry about America First but also second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth so that is the new right perspective and thankfully what theyve done is brought to this perspective of each of the antiwar perspective which historically has been discarded by the hard left. Host one of the challenges from the perspective that is naturally lets not say antiwar but for first is a good description of President Trump. He obviously was opposed and seems more willing. Part of the difficulty of that is the people that have come up through the foreignpolicy establishment are almost always people that are more global and i would include john bolton and that any number of othe and a nr people who are currently looking for and advising the president. How can they change the foreignpolicy makeup of the sort of people who are in the position of power to meet thesee kind of determinations . Guest i often say the establishments cannot be overstated. When President Trump bombed syria it was for the first time. When they won the cold war, this was a problem. It is very, very, i said earlier about the spanishamerican war, its been a drumbeat for a century. As for controlling trump in washington and having his appointees, they have very little impact but in terms of having the extreme criticism of the war machine and discourse, this is something that you write is doing very well and why of the Democratic Candidates they love so much because the most antiwar candidate on the left and it is just a function of this is something President Trump is very good about if they are treated highly on a pedestal like obama people are going to be a lot less skeptical where hes sending the troops overseas which means people are dying including foreign citizens but it certainly is a concern if you have a president that is regarded as a loud its going to be a lot harder for him to pull off having this kind of war. Does the success or failure depends on donald trump . Guest not in the slightest. This is where the Corporate Press and the progressives get it wrong. Thereve been an enormous amount of skepticism and always have been from the new right. Hes not an ideologue. They regard him as a wrecking ball and as a source of great humor. They regard him as a great person in charge of dropping the mask. But in terms of accomplishments, where is the law and none of this stuff is getting any closer to fruition, so he is good in terms of what he takes down in terms of putting forth the policies they would say he is the biggest loser. Host you have a distinction and other being the first person to quote rothbard and louis ck. Tell me a little bit about what you see in the world of comedy where we have seen a number of people express views that almost sound like the canary in the mine shaft for the cultural war by comedians that are certainly not of the right and yet despite the politics have a concern about what they see in the world of comedy and frankly us train towards anticomedy. So much is about the holier than thou was anointed good people and there and their sede vision of the anointed and you are not just wrong but you are bad people and we are here to save you from yourself. Its domesticated imperialism in many cases. The social media being used to not denigrate and humiliate the types as opposed to engage with them and argued about the policy it is a very effective technique and in comedy this isnt something racial to myself that its historically been going back as the way to critique those in power even the soviet union without having to actually have that plausible deniability. This is why the social media giants are freaking out because i think most people dont appreciate how much existential threat it causes a people to see it being used to further ideas that they regard as anathema. The key media figures and whether you think they are part of the new right or not. Tucker carlson. Guest it would be a function of whether they identify as such but hes certainly one in their hall of fame. What do yowould you describet someone who came from a background now with the views to say he is right about so many Different Things and we need to Pay Attention to that. So does that kind of emblematic i think it is more emblematic of the fact that he treats the left of contempt and not as a difference of opinion that these people are out for your personal destruction, so having that kind of framework is the new right approach. In terms of the other things that we havent touched on this yet, you mentioned the sort of corporate agenda aspect of this. Is the new right friendly or not because a lot of the different people that we have mentioned are people who were not just strongly opposed or strongly supportive of the traditional family unit. You have complete range. On the one hand the types that are like yes we are the ones that are not socially conservative at all. We are the ones that can bring people into rightwing thought because if you are a progressi progressive, that isnt going to be very friendly. On the other hand, you have this right wing that thinks that there is an agenda by the Corporate Press to legitimize things like this and regard it as they are trying to turn all of our kids into basically so you have a complete range of everything between. There are those that are like whatever you want to do is fine and others think with some reason that the left will grab onto any community can at any given moment and use that as an issue to impose their perspective on the culture and heres a great example, regardless of what you think of these issues whether you are for or against them, the fact that it was put over all overnight the fact that you have that mechanism in place, they are not the most important issue for transgender people. Its not being the victim of violence. The fact that this was the issue and that again its something we all decided upon, that is the critique. And you notice how quickly that went to garbage and outlets in the conversation camp and by the way we all have amnesia. Host one of the things that comes is the argument over pronouns and we have seen that it not just people on the right impact theres examples most recently a professor at Uc Santa Barbara who was herself a liberal feminist, described herself as being someone on the left, you know, having a perspective on a lot of Different Things but was also emphatic of the man becoming a woman and has heard from all sorts of corners of discuss in that scenario. That aspect of this agenda do you think that is prodding a lot of people to have a more sympathetic view . I would add this planned parenthood she was referring to people people with wombs or wour however they want to phrase it. I think again this is a socially conservative thing. Its much more vast than the nee new right perspective because again, when this was the issue paul graham has a great essay every year you will have fashionable issues you this is a leftwing issue so the fact that you are engaging with it as opposed to picking your issue is a more conservative perspective that there is a broader point that i discuss in the book which is how the left uses jargon as a mechanism to have dominance in the social control in every so often it changes, you can say illegal alien and if you use the correct expression that is a signal for the group that you are one of them as opposed to one of the bad guys. And how have you seen that ramped up in the social media age . Guest its extraordinary. Its very honest. The thing is theres all these mechanisms because you will have whats a twitter or facebook they will say you cant use certain words and then it becomes where you have these talented people forced to operate and their constraints and the consequences often created you say okay if you use it on this site you will be banned so they start referring to peoples color as the nword. Is that really better because it sounds more creative and engaging and now those people get his ticket to the man and the defiance of what ends up shooting them in the foot. The horseshoe. Can you explain that . Its the idea that the far left and far right are essentially the same and its like a Big Horseshoe and eventually they are indistinguishable and in this context it would be Something Like the same thing as. Any kind of equivocation in my mind tends to be a function of either laziness or someone that doesnt do their homework. Host the theory has been deployed quite a lot and i think it is being done in the context of the political where you can see some people because of the antiwaantiwar views for example supporting someone not just like that other people that might be more critical while having very leftist views. Does the horseshoe theory, where do you see the point that it just kind of breaks down and falls apart and has an overly simplistic view . Stalin and hitler were basically the same. Its very interesting to be told of life for me would have been the same with nazi germany. So that is one example. Another example is the claim both sides are curious which is true that everyone has their own things that they regard as heresy so in terms of ho how it would apply in practice and what you would bring from it i find it to be of very little value. Host one thing that seems to be inconsistent is in the Corporate Media landscape, people on the sort of new right general affinity and people on the sort of anticorporate left are people who traditionally have been shut out of the conversation that is taking place and you look at the editorial pages of the major media landscape its notable not just how few voices there are in favor of the president also how few voices there were prio firet 316 and continuing to this day who are critical of these approaches of democratic politics. Is that one example where the theory does hold a little bit and if so, why . Guest since they are both outside and unorthodox, theres an enormous amount of skepticism on both sides towards the establishment and the idea that these are good people and better than us and you see it with all of the attacks in playing shes a racist, these are attacks they would use so there is very much a skepticism but for any outsider, not just politics of how things are run under the belief that maybe we should tear this down and build something better. The thrust of this agenda from both the far left and far right doesnt say anything about how many people inhabit the same is certainly part of the conversation that we see playing out over and over again in the Corporate Media and other places as well about increased polarization in American Life that there is no escape from the political, but you no longer can even go to the ballpark or a game and write about how you take a position on something without worrying about the chair next to you. That is Something Back to me is historically pretty unamerican. It happened before in american history. We shouldnt ignore that. But really in that post war environment it seemed that is something that stands out as being different from the experience of a lot of people. Do you think it is a permanent trajectory or something temporary . Guest is going to advance to have the views driven. The perspective is with the complete discrediting of the rightwing and for decades they were the party and they had to be because there was no right of center. Barry goldwater was basically the first figure to say we are going to stand for something different. He referred to eisenhowers new deal and his election and 64 was a huge debacle, a huge loss. It was unprecedented so basically what i guess the loss of the fairness doctrine and when you didnt hav have to corporately approve the perspectives and you had this increased radicalization and i use that on the right, thats when it was like alright now we are going to have two different ideologies and we are going to encourage people to decrease in self segregate and we saw this in the president ial debate which would have been unthinkable in 88 when you had the candidates yelling at the moderators and screening what kind of questions are thes these this isnt what e care about. This never would have been 20 years ago because the percepti perception. Now its okay they have an agenda. They are people we have to grapple with. If you look at the polling data, the majority of the people that actually supported trump in 2016 also have views on immigration they are far more moderate than you would expect. In fact they are open to not just steps on the trails that would surprise other people. Its only a little but how that interacts with what you write and is this a situation where people are painted as a hot button issue where they feel like they need to take a hard line, is there a different opinion . And coulter is probably the one to take hold of this because her perspective is it makes as much sense for republicans to try to get the minority votes as it would be for democrats to try to get evangelical christian vote. You go to where the votes are in her point is if you had this and you have people coming with some historical background in america, they are going to tend to vote democrat and leftwing democrat. California is an example that they used. So for them it becomes a function of why are we giving votes to people that are not going to like. To them it is like a suicide pact and the left as you say this idea of Democratic Change in america is both a Conspiracy Theory of the old right, and the inevitability after the destruction of the party productivity. Host someone that supported the president very strongly and now has become a critic of him and failed to live up to the observations. Is that a new phenomenon as well shared not just by her but by others . Guest theres always this skepticism and the idea that in trump we trust is false. If the socalled he owns the limbs but there was never in my view the across the sub spectrum disbelief that he is the one that is going to save this country and this is going to be a far longer battle and not a battle that is held in washington. Host is a situation where they value a president that will value its way into say one whos pushing forward a piece of legislation or policy . It depends on the policy that the kids were a great example because there is an asymmetry if i sit down and tell you 90 truths and ten lies you are going to look at me as a liar even though im telling the truth. So when you have things like this committed to sit ther stome with a smirk on her face and then when the full footage came out there was very little we are going to do better next time and the lawsuits happened as a consequence. There were other instances like this and each talking about how the fantasies are. So you have these moments, the realization of these are not mistakes. You can make a mistake once or twice but if it is a pattern at a certain point that the behavior and not a mistake so that is the perspective that rather than what President Trump has to say what these other momentthat these aremoments thae just how depraved. That the war with the press that you talk about is one that shows up when you look at the statistics the levels of decline and faith in the American Media particularly among Republican Voters and independents as well have been steep and something the media doesnt seem to be able to help itself above. What do you have a significant role in what could you do differently . I think i would have much more varied perspective. I think that i would have kind of a council around me where people would have different points of view if you. It would be tough because whenever you are running a corporation and a progressive culture of you are going to have your hands tied by the higherups and backlash so they are in a position im not going to deny that at the same time it doesnt need to be as brazen and heavyhanded and shameless as it tends to be. Host from the new perspectives to battle this one when the journalist is regarded exactly as a tobacco executive. Of the prospectiv perspectivn get about your book is one that is significant and its gotten a lot of praise from some very smart people, but if they were going to look at other people as well, what should they turn tocome up with additional time when would you recommend . I dont think theres any and thats why i wrote it i wouldnt write a book that is redundant. Theres many books aroun arounds base that wants to function whereas at the very least members of the groups identify as clans people are basically nil. There was a piece about a kid from West Virginia that started watching videos and hes like im not a White Nationalist anymore. This is an anecdote that is supposed to be indicative of something but in terms of books that provide a background to this i would say the words of pat buchanan and murray rothbard, the machiavelli is the quintessential text, and am coulter would be kind of the big one. The book is the journey to american politics. Thank you for taking the time to join us today. Heres a portion of the program. I noticed the more they came forward, the more they loved it. Whats happened since this book came out is trump has gone up in Approval Rating by twopoint. So, this story has increased his popularity. And i was afraid of that. I once had lunch with George Mcgovern when bill clinton was running for president and they had him explosion and i said senator mike govern, what do you think about all these women coming after clinton and he said to me its helping him. And i think its true because men can you take what they want from the men that have the choice are serious leaders and that is how this is reading. The more women that come forth hes more like genghis khan, alexander the great committees like the great kennedy, clinton, jefferson, it is a mark and a leader many people find a man taking what he wants. Journalist Natalie Wexler argues that u. S. Education system can be improved by expanding history of science and the arts curriculum of Elementary School students. Shes interviewed by former chancellor of the district of columbia public schools. Im so excited to be here today with Natalie Wechsler to discuss her brandnew book the knowledge gap the hidden cause of americas broken Education System and how to fix it. Guest im delighted to be