Transcripts For CSPAN2 Environmental Regulations Impact On Farmers And Ranchers 20180208

Policies on American Farming and ranching communities. The discussion here today is not about the value of environmental regulations but about how some federal regulations can be inflexible, antiquated, duplicative and ultimately harmful to american agriculture, a critical part of our nations economy. Members of this committee should work to ensure environmental laws are strong and effective without being overly burdensome. This is often a difficult task. The United States is blessed with diverse ecosystems that often require different kinds of stewardship to remain healthy. In wyoming, we have an abundance of sage brush brainy, forests, a variety of mountain habitats and wetlands. Wyoming ranchers and farmers are familiar with each ecosystem and its needs. This is where they live, work and invest their energies. Farmers and ranchers are the original stewards. They understand that landscapes and watersheds need to be healthy to support native plants, wildlife, crops and livestock. Theyre living professor that interacting with nature can be done in an environmentally sound way, often leaving the resources in better condition than they found them. Washington policies do not always translate well in Rural America. When im home in wyoming, i often hear how out of touch environmental regulations have become. For far too long, the people who feed, clothe and house our nation have been burdened by policies that fail to reflect on the ground realities. We can look no further than the Obama Administrations failed waters of the United States rule. Under that rule, farmers and ranchers across the country were told that irrigation ditches, ponds and puddles were, quote, navigable waters and could be regulated by the federal government. Im happy to say last week the delay in implementation of the rule became final. To make sure that any new rule protects americas Water Resources while not unnecessarily burdening farmers, ranchers, Small Businesses and communities across america. When writing legislation, Congress Must take care to ensure policy actually achieves the designed objective. Agencies must do the same when developing regulations. I believe that we should prioritize updating and revising policies that while wellintentioned were not designed to micromanage agriculture production. One example is the new animal waste emission reporting requirements. Over the past several months, farmers and ranchers struggled to comply with ambiguities and ambiguous Agency Directive following an april 2017 decision in the d. C. Circuit court. That decision fundamentally changed reporting requirements under the comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act. And the Emergency Planning and community right to know act. The ruling meant up to 100,000 farmers and ranchers who had never been required to report under these laws were suddenly required to comply. Even though they wanted to comply with the ruling, the process and the implications of compliance were unclear. Because they both were not written with the intent of regulating these farms and ranches. The requirement to report emissions from animal waste came without context and largely without any agency guidance. Let me now turn to the nepa, the National Environmental policy act. And their impact on agriculture operations without mentions nepa. Nepa is at the core of every decision in each land use plan, Resource Management proposal, trailing acrossing permit and grazing allotment that farmers and ranchers need. Nepa is not limited to agriculture. For years, weve discussed the effect nepa has had on delaying the construction of road, bridges, parks, and other critical infrastructures. While environmental analysis can be important in many case,completing nepa takes far too long. As nepa delays stifle ecosystems need changed and farmers, ranchers and their families wait for an answer. As we will hear from todays witness, these are families whose lives, livelihoods, hopes and dreams are inseparable from the lands and the waters they work so hard to keep clean. These are not the only examples of punishing regulations that farmers and ranchers in and the communities they live in face. Today, we will also hear about duplicative permitting requirements of the application of pesticides already covered under the federal insecticide, fung side act or fifra. Issues of privacy and the collection of data on farmers and ranchers. How how the endangered species act has been implemented and the subsequent negative impact on ranching and farmers. Before we move on to our witnesses today, id like to turn to the Ranking Member, senator carper for his remarks. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thanks very much for bringing us all together today, a special thanks to our witnesses. I feel privileged to be able to introduce our secretary of agriculture for a second tour in a moment. First, let me give a brief statement and id like to introduce michael. No other sector of our nations economy success is more closely tied with the quality of our environment than is Agriculture Sector. Farmers are our nations original conservationists. They understand better than anyone else the need for clean air, for clean water and highquality soil in order to produce the food that we need, not just to feed ourselves, but, really, to feed the world. In delaware, over 40 of our land is dedicated to farming. Our states Agricultural Sector employs some 30,000 dealians, while contributing nearly 8 billion a year to our states economy. First in the nation for value of product produced per acre. First in the number of lima beans harvested. First in i think in sussex county, which is the Third Largest county in america, third in production of chickens by county. We do all of this while practicing exceptional Environmental Stewardship while our Farming Community is working closely in partnership with usda, with state agencies and our universities. Our nations environmental laws have been instrumental in helping us deliver clean air, clean water and productive lands for our farmers and our ranchers, and i should add that a list to to that list our foresters, our fishing communities because their success is also greatly dependent on a healthy environment and vital ecosystems. For example, epa has found that the 2005 Clean Air Act rules that protect our lungs from ground smog also protect our crops. And animals. To the tune of 13 billion in estimated benefits by 2020. The clear air act also protects crops from damaging ultra violet radiation by protecting the planets ozone layer and limiting the use of ozone deplating chemicals. It turns out those Clean Air Act will produce an estimate 7. Other Environmental Issues where we need to act and do more to help our farmers. For example, Climate Change is already disrupting the livelihood of farmers and ranchers. The federal governments Third National Climate Assessment found that, and i quote, climate drugs to Agricultural Production have increased in the past 40 years and are projected to increase over the next 25 years. By midcentury and beyond, these impacts will be increasingly negative on crops and livestock, closed quote. The report issued in november of 2017 confirmed these trends. I look forward to hearing the testimony of our witnesses on this topic. Other Environmental Programs have created new Income Opportunities for farmers. The renewable fuel standard has been a Major Economic driver in farm communities across our country. In addition, tens of thousands of farmers across our country are enrolled in usdas Conservation Programs that pay farmers for the Water Quality and Habitat Conservation services they provide and protect. I acknowledge, though, that sometimes environmental requirements can be complex. The chairmans referred to this already. But those requirements can be confusing to those who farm. One such example is the air emissions reporting requirement for farms under two laws. The comprehensive Environmental Response compensation and Liability Act ceremony as cercla, and known as epcra. The Bush Administration promulgated a rule that exempted all but the largest farms from reporting under these farms. In 2017, the d. C. Circuit court overturned the 2008 rule, putting farmers on notice they would soon need to begin reporting. Unfortunately, epas reporting guidance has been confusing and unhelpful. Along with a number of other clears here in this room and outside this room, ive been pushing epa for several months to do better. Epa agreed it had more work to do, at our urging agreed to request more time from the court to continue developing workable guidance, and if necessary, to give congress the time to act on this issue. Thankfully, the court agreed. Last week, as we know, gave epa until may 1st to get this right. With the 2008 rule no longer in place, im committed to working with towards a solution that balances the burden of this reporting on our farmers with the legitimate needs of Public Health and Emergency Response officials. And the right of local Community Members to know about the pollution in their air. This is what the Bush Administration sought to do in 2008, and it is how i believe we should proceed now. If i could, mr. Chairman, just a quick word of introduction im tempted just to read his bio. I wont do that. But really an incredible record of service and achievement. The scuse family is highly regarded in our state. We have three counties. Just lower to those in the middle of our state just north of dover. The scuse family has farmed there forever and enjoyed great access and really been a role model for a lot of folks in farming and outside of farming. I mentioned in my statement that farmers were our first original conservationists. The scuse family is a great example of that. In addition to serving and the work hes done with his own family business, hes served as our secretary of agriculture, not once, almost eight years under governor he also served as her chief of staff for a period of time. In the Current Administration of governor john carney, hes eye secretary of agriculture. Were delighted that he is. In addition to that, he was asking the Obama Administration to come down here and to serve in washington in a number of Senior Leadership positions, including undersecretary at the department of ag, acting deputy secretary of agriculture. Acting secretary of agriculture for our country. Its just extraordinary. And im just thrilled that he can be here today. Hes a good friend. Someone that im honored to say hes a delawarean and were honored youre here with us today, michael, and i absolute you for tall youve done and continue to do. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, senator carper. We have a number of introductions to be made. Senator ernest and senator moran have introductions. Senator ernest. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Howard hill, and as a veter veterinarian with iowa select farms. And for Murphy Family farms in rose hill, North Carolina, and was head of veterinary microbiology in the Iowa State University diagnostic laboratory. Dr. Hill served as president of the nppc for the 2014 2015 term and prior to that was a member of the nppc board of directors, serving on a number of committees and cochairing the environmental policy committee. He also served on the board of directors of the iowa pork producers, where he was the chairman of the Research Committee and the contract growers committee. Dr. Hill owns sow farm which produces breeding stock. He partners with his son on the family farm where they have a purebred angus herd and 2,500 acres of row crops. Thank you for being here today, dr. Hill. We look forward to hearing your testimony. Thank you so much. Thank you, senator ernest. Senator moran . Thank to you and the Ranking Member for having our hearing. Its my honor to introduce a kansas farmer from wheaten, kansas, in the North Central part of our state. Don has been actively engaged in the National Farmers union, the Kansas Farmers Union for a very long time. He is a leader in agriculture in Rural America and i hold don in high regard for his love for and passion for small towns across our state and reneck niche recot if Rural America is going to have a future, its because farmers and ranchers are having success. I appreciate him. Especially here on the conservation issue, he has a great love for the land and understands how important clear skies and good soil and clean water is to kansans across our state. So, don, i welcome you to the committee and thank you for your testimony. I look forward to hearing it. Thank you, senator moran. We also have joining the panel mr. Duval. But first, were going to hear from mr. Hanson. Nels joins us today from recall raulings, wyoming. For the public lands council. A Third Generation rancher, nels knows that raising cattle, sheep and horses is full of challenges. Over the years, nels has worked with the university of wyoming and the bureau of Land Management to develop cooperative range land monitoring, which has allowed nels to become internately familiar with both the needs of his livestock and range land ecosystems. His successful stewardship is evident in the longevity of his family ranch, which has also been recognized for many years in wyoming and nationally. The bureau of Land Management recognized nelss range with a stewardship award in 2000 and in 2001, the ranch was named cooperator of the year. Nels has been recognized repeatedly for his leadership in the industry and in his community. He has served as a member of the search and rescue and was inducted into the wyoming agriculture hall of fame in 2010. Nels, im pleased to have you here today to lend your wealth of experience with the committee. I ask that you please proceed. Thank you, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper, members of the committee. Thank you for having me here today to address the federal regulations effect how the federal regulations affect my ranch and others across the country. My name is nels hanson. My anymofamily has been ranchin our area for 120 years. Today my son is hope taking care of the ranch so that i can be here with you today to discuss these issues. Past chairman of the wyoming state grazing board. Member of the National Cattlemans Association and i currently serve as secretary treasurer for the National Public lands council. Our ranch covers 230,000 acres of ground in central wyoming, consists of private and blm in the checker board land pattern. And we spanned over three watersheds. Beyond ranching, i spent much of the last 30 years working on these issues that were discussing today in wyoming, in washington, d. C. And across the west. As recently as last week at the national cattlemans convention, i taught a class on working with federal agencies and trying to educate people how to get along and work towards a goal. In our interactions with the federal agencies, our First Priority is always to identify Common Ground and to Work Together. But we are constantly tangled in a web of federal regulations. Im here today to talk to about just a few of those regulations that impact my ranch and my family. As long as it remains on the books, the obamaera wotus rule continues to be a serious threat to our operation. On our ranch, we wrestle with the management of three watersheds. None of them drain directly into at adjacent held in waters. But under the ambiguous and overreaching 2015 rule, its impossible to know whether we are exempt or not. As a family rancher, i should not need to hire hydrologists, engineers and attorneys to figure this out. Im grateful for the administration has taken steps to roll back this rule and replace it with something more workable. But more work still needs to be done. The ranching Community Stands ready to help in any way we can. Another regulation i shouldnt be wrestling with in our cow calf operation is the reporting requirements under cercla and epcra. The simple fact is emissions from normal livestock operations should not be covered under this rule. In particular, it is absurd to require such reporting for a 3,000head operation like mine spread across 60 square miles. Such as operation would never require a coordinated Emergency Response. Congress needs to fix this. As we all know, you cant discuss ranching anywhere in the country without taking into account wildlife management. Two pieces of legislation that make it very difficult for me are the endangered species act and the Migratory Bird act. However wellintended, esa is 40 years old. It needs to be updated to refleb the Lessons Learned and the issues of today. The path forward must work for all, not just environmental litigants that pay their bills with proceeds from legal settlements. Our best opportunity to modernize esa is through last years bipartisan western governors recommendations to this committee. But only addressing esa does not solve the whole problem. Populations are of ravens are exploding on my ranch and across the west. This act that affect the sagegrouse and our livestock. The for me, its the ravens, in other parts of the countries, the black vultures and other predators are the issue. In conclusion, please recognize that the ranchers are your eyes and ears on the land. We are your best tool to achieve any real conservation objectives on the ground. Turn us loose. No one is more dedicated to the health of the land than those of white house are dependent on it. Let the ranchers do what we do best. Everyone will benefit. The species, the ecosystem and the Rural Communities. Thank you again for hearing my testimony. I look forward to answering any questions. Well thank you so much for traveling here from wyoming and thanks for that excellent testimony. Appreciate it. Mr. Duval . Good morning, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member carper and the members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to come to talk to you about real world impact on overregulation of farmers and ranchers. My name is zippy duval and im a beef Poultry Farmer in georgia. My son is home. Hes four generation. I was elected president of American Farm bureau two years ago and i visited farms in all 50 states since ive become president , and i talked to them about the things that keep them awake at night. The two issues that have come up at almost every farm that i visited were the lack of adequate legal supply of labor and the burden of overregulation on their farms. Regulatory process today is a product of decades of administrative and judicial decisions without much effort to integrate these decisions into a system that makes sense to all of us. Farmers and ranchers have shared their stories about the impact of regulations on their lives and their farms as i visit them. In west virginia, a Poultry Farmer who operates one of the cleanest farms that weve ever seen is spending tens of thousands of dollars on legal bills to defend her farm against the court in the in court against the epas misinterpretation of the clean water act. Federal officers without any authority from congress and without Public Notice have used what amounts to extortion against ranchers in utah to force their hand over to force them to hand over their private water rights as a condition of getting federal grazing permits. The endangered species act has not been successful in recovering listed species, only 50 species have been recovered out of 1,661 species listed in the past 45 years. Thats a 3 success rate. 11 species have gone extinct while under this federal protection. Meanwhile, the esa has made it harder for farmers and ranchers to use their land and protect their livestock. And last but not least, the epa under the provisions of Previous Administration finalizes the waters of the u. S. Rule that epitomizes the failure of our current regulatory system. The laws that govern this process the law that governs this process, the administrative procedure act, is more than 70 years old and its way overdue for reform, especially when you consider how social media can shape public input. Finally, mr. Chairman, i have met farmers and ranchers who are not sure that they want to encourage their children to remain on the farm. And i remind you of the average age of the American Farmer is 58 years old. A generation of farmers and ranchers will be hanging up their hats within a few years, and we need to ask ourselves, who is going to be willing to step up and take the place to grow the food for our tables in america and around the world . As committed as young people are, like my son zeb, who are farming and ranching, they cannot continue for the overregulatory burdens continue to grow. Farm income is down about 50 compared to about five years ago, but i assure you the regulatory costs have not gone down any. These facts would give pause to any even the most dedicated farmer and rancher around this country. I would like to close with a quote from a statesman from my home state, president jimmy carter. He signed an executive order on march 1978 that states, regulations should not impose unnecessary burdens on the economy, on individuals, on public and private organizations or on state and local governments. Regulations should develop should be developed through a process which ensures that Compliance Costs costs, paperwork and other burdens on the public are minimized. And then there is President Trumps executive order of a year ago that requires agencies to repeal two rules for every one rule that they issue. And in signing that executive order, the president said every regulation should have to pass a simple test, does this make life better or safer for American Workers and consumers . This is not a partisan issue. This is about allowing our farmers and businesses to be productive. Its about a goal that i believe that we all share, a regulatory process that is credible, one that we can get behind instead of having to fight against. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and im glad to answer any questions that you and your colleagues have. Thank you very much, mr. Duvall for your testimony. Dr. Hill . Good morning, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper and members of the committee. Id also like to give special thanks to my home state senator joni ernest who has done a tremendous amount of work for iowa farmers. My name is dr. Howard hill. Im a veterinarian from cambridge, iowa. Pork producers are deeply committed to responsibly managing their animals and the manure they produce to protect water and air quality, and to maximize the manures benefit and value as a vital source of nutrients for drops we grow. Nppc and pork producers have a long and proud history of working cooperatively with environmental regulators at the state and federal levels and are supportive of federal Environmental Policies and programs if they are grounded in three primary principles. One, the Environmental Performance expectations for producers have a high probability of resulting in meaningful environmental improvements. Two, the measures involved are practical and affordable, and, three, producers are given a realistic amount of time to adopt the measures and associated systems to their operations so that they can continue to be profitable and successful. Nppc has worked with epa on numerous occasions to ensure the agencys rules meet those principles and that they ultimately protect the environment. One of the best examples of our cooperation cooperative effort was the National Air Emissions Monitoring study of the emissions of swine operations. Pork producers used about 6 million of their own funds to support that epa supervised thirdparty study and aapproximately 5,000 swine facilities enrolled in the epa with epa and air consent agreements that made the work possible. But when necessary, nppc will fight bad Environmental Policies and programs. Pork producers do not oppose environmental regulations, but they oppose rules that are not sound, effective and practical. An example of the latter is the requirement to report air emission releases. Almost all Livestock Farmers are now required to report ammonia emissions that result from the natural breakdown of animal waste. When the epa first issued the rules on those reports in 2008, all reporting on all but the largest operations were exempt because producers and epa never believed that routine agricultural emissions from manure constituted the type of emergency or crisis that they were intended to address. Animal agriculture also never understand how the reporting of farm emissions to the u. S. Coast guard would have supported the legitimate Emergency Response purpose of those regulations. The reports that required under epcra had to be made to state and local Emergency Response authorities in january 2009. At the time, the epa completely dropped the ball. Failed to provide any guidance to farmens on how to report emissions and failed to provide guidance to the state and local agencies that were going to receive those reports and as a result chaos ensued. Almost all producers trying to report emissions had difficulty reaching state and local Emergency Response authorities either because phone lines were overwhelmed or fax machines just ran out of paper. Those who did manage to get through and submit reports were met with disbelief and confusion. Statements such, as why are you submitting this to us . And what are we supposed to do with this information . Were common. In illinois, for example, farmers were told there was no rule requiring reporting and that they this was merely an internet hoax. In the southeast, epa told local authorities that the reports were supposed to be submitted to epa, epas water office. In the wake of that chaos, nppc and other agricultural groups in early 2009 filed lawsuits challenging epa, epas 2008 rule. Last april, d. C. Circuit finally ruled in this case, throwing out agriculture exemption from the two reporting rules and forces tens of thousands of Livestock Farmers to figure out how to estimate and report their emissions. The latest industry estimate of the number of animal producers now subject to reporting requirements is over 200,000. While the pork industry is certainly prepared to comply once at peels court mandates take effect, it should be noted that epa, u. S. Coast guard and state and local Emergency Response authorities have all gone on record saying not only is there no need for this information, but that its volume will create a Major Management challenge for them and that it will interfere with their other legitimate emergency functions. It is for this reason that nppc is supporting a legislative fix to address the requirements and we urge members of this committee to do likewise. To conclude, pork producers are proud of their environmental efforts over the past 50 years, a period that has seen at mount of pork produced doubled, while the use of feed, water and land has been reduced significantly and our Carbon Footprint as decreased by 35 . Nppc and the u. S. Pork industry stand ready to work with congress, federal and state agencies and anyone who is willing to work with us to help producers improve our Environmental Stewardship efforts and to address new challenges. Thank you. Thank you very much, dr. Hill. Secretary scuse . Good morning, chairman barrasso and Ranking Member carper and members of the committee. I appreciate the invitation to speak to you today about the impacts of federal regulations and policies on American Farming and ranching communities. Delaware has benefitted from many of the Environmental Policies and regulations that have come from our federal partners. Were able to see examples on a daily basis that are benefitting not only our family farms but also the state and our efforts to improve the overall environment. Middle town, delaware, once a large farmer community, continues to have good neighborly relations today. While our understanding of agriculture might not be the same as the original farm community, its citizens have embraced agriculture through education and advocacy. As you can imagine, the influx of additional residents has increased the usage of Water Resources while farmers still need to irrigate their drops. Through the towns waste Water Treatment plant, waste water is as part of the chesapeake watershed making sure runoff does not occur is extremely important. Delaware farmers are able to utilize a variety of conservation practices supported by research. The moneys that are provided for conservation districts and supplemented by usda, nrcs have been extremely important in enhancing and supporting usage of cover crops. They can reduce at mount of soil loss but can also epa has helped generate funs to support one of the best nutrient programs in the country thanks to senator carper with a dedicated staff we have been able to update our compliance standards, meeting the regulations set forth by epa. Weve been able to fund collaborations with thirdparty specialists to detect modelling and enhance new compliance standards. Increased demand for corn. In 2000, farmers produced 10 billion bushels of corn. By 2016, farmers were perusing 14. 6 bushels of corn to meet the demand. Dedicated to ethanol that improves their air quality and lessons our demand on nonrenewable resources but it also created additional feed markets. Poultry relocation programs have spawned a growing industry between Poultry Farms without acreage to utilize those in need of and cannot apply poultry lit tore their fields. The program is also created compost products and pilot Energy Generation projects. In delaware, weve noted Climate Change is including patterns increased temperature with risk of drought and extreme rainfall and events. In addition to the obvious effects of recently frequent drought condition, Climate Change is also predicted to result in higher frequency and intense rain storms. Increasing intervals of intense storms presents a risk forri agriculture practices designed for trapping and treating capacity for storm water or combined water flows from agricultural areas. These intense rainfall events will impact crops as the timing of these intent rainfall cut result in crop failures and thus more susceptible to flood pentagon in some cases, rainfall can also destroy older crops, particularly fruits and vegetables like water mellens and cantaloupes. Can lead to fruit trees setting earlier blossoms, which increases the chance of frost freeze damage as was witnessed in the midatlantic in the spring of 2016. Lastly, as the climate warms, changes, there is a chance that certain agricultural for instance, some pet ranges may have been limited by cold temperatures but as that maximum low temperature for an area rises, then that pest now is able to expand its range and survive where it previously could not. The Delaware Agriculture Department is partnering with usda on agriculture conservation through programs like the Environmental Quality incentive programs that help recover crops and improve our environment or ag land easements that benefit delawares farm preservation program. There is a need for extreme lining efforts. It took us three years of negotiation until terms were agreed upon in those three years, delaware lost its funding. The uncertainty and continuation of deadline extension has caused confusion for producers in states and there is a need for a legislative fix. We dan not keep putting farmers on notice wondering when they will be hit with legal liability for untimely or inaccurate reporting. Value and understand the need to protect the waters of the u. S. The department of agriculture and the states are willing to put the effort to assist farmers, but we would appreciate a common sense approach to address the issues as well as timely outreach in education materials. We need a clear definition that is objective. Finally, an additional option to improve the environmental conditions would be to remove environmentally sensitive untilage acreage from consideration. Changing the crp program acreage from 24 million to 30 million acres. Ladies and gentlemen, our farmers and ranchers are, in fact, the first true environmentalists and i want to thank you for the opportunity for being here today. Thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. Teske . Thank you, chairman barrasso, Ranking Member carper for this opportunity to visit today. I especially thank you, senator moran, for that more than gracious introduction. Ive had the honor of considering the senator a friend for many, many years. The bad part of that, he knows all the dirt on me so this makes me a little nervous, but my wife kathy and i farm a farm operation in wheaten, kansas, on the eastern edge of the foot hills. Its ranching and cropping. We farm it along with our children and grandchildren. Weve got a slug of grandchildren. Grandchildren are fun. Im the fifth generation on the farm. God willing, our children will be the sixth and grandchildren seventh, and, you know, my goal here today is to Work Together to try to figure out how to give them a world they can prosper and thrive in. So i currently essential as Vice President of the National Farmers union. Im not quite sure how that ever worked out, but when i was contacted to visit with you today, my initial thoughts were to decline the invitation. I thought it would be too controversial and didnt think i was any expert to talk about it. Upon further constant plagues, i kind of suspected that most of the testimony would be pretty aggressively antagonistic, and i see that was right, and i thought maybe my experiences with the epa and some of my thoughts could bring some perspective to it all. So thats this is a good discussion to have. Most of us in this room are of the age to remember when the rivers were burning in our cities. We fixed them. Didnt break us. Our goal through this is to create a world for our grandchildren that they can thrive and prosper in, and its our responsibility. This isnt something to push off on our children. Its too late for our ancestors. So somehow we need to figure out how to Work Together to protect our environment and to allow our farmers to farm profitably. We can do that. But throwing the baby out with the bath water by eliminating all regulations is just irresponsible. So we need to we need to Work Together and think of how to do this. So ive already got robs ulcer acting up because im rambling away from the script but hell have to put up with that. My next thing i wanted to talk about was wotus. When wotus was introduced, it created a vicious backlash and probably rightly so. It wasnt prepared right. It wasnt introduced right. And administrator jackson appointed me to a farmerrancher Advisory Committee to the epa, and then later on administrator mccarthy reappointed me to that. Its called, and ive got to read it off. Ive got a button and i cant even remember how to say it. Its the farm, ranch and Rural Communities federal add visitvi committee. Its actually a pretty good deal. We were never brought in to this discussion as wotus was developed or introduced and i wonder how a farmer relationship in there might have changed that and how it might have been perceived. Another grumbling point along that is the fact that in over a year weve not had a phone call or an email. So it really shouldnt matter what administrations in charge. I think the communication between Rural America and the epa would be a good thing. Why has that ceased to happen . So i need to hurry up or i wont cover the top parts. I was in in the 1990s, i worked for the clean water farms project. This is a winwin thing. This was epa 319 funds and i worked with farmers across the state of kansas improving their Water Quality. They get a stipend grant to help them towards that. We host tours on it to show their neighbors what they were doing. It was all just great. This is an example of how good things can happen once you do this. Another thing was the farmers unions carbon credit program. We were the nations leader in carb Carbon Sequestration. We had over 5 million acres enrolled in Carbon Sequestration practices and they got paid a stipend for that. These are good things. The Renewable Fuels standard. Ive got seven seconds to talk about it. Keep it. Its a good deal. [ laughter ] thank you. Well, thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you, senator, mora moran taking a picture of him as he just concludes that testimony. He can keep talking if you need to shoot him take three or four. Let me let me get started with mr. Secretary, you know, i noted that you gave positive remarks about the Renewable Fuels standard, the rfs in your testimony, and i would just note that just last week your boss, the governor of delaware, petitioned the epa to reduce the burdens of the renewable fuel standard on refineries in delaware and across the country. Your governor actually stated that the rfs, quote, will undoubtedly severely harm the state of delaware, the entire middle Atlantic Region and the national economy. And i ask unanimous consent to enter that governors petition from the governor of delaware into the record. Mr. Hansen, like many producers in the west, you have a great deal of experience in dealing with federal agency that administer grazing permits. Youve also worked for decades with the agencies, the university of wyoming, state experts, to develop and to maintain coordinated ecosystem monitoring. Youve seen the nepa process in action countless times. Can you describe for me the differences youve seen between the federal nepa processing and the state process, for things like range management improvements, economic environmental value in terms of the value of public lands . Thank you, mr. Chairman. When we were working with the state of wyoming for probably the Biggest Issue that we deal with is water development, and we are generally looking at about a sixmonth process to turn the permits around with the state of wyoming. Depending on which watershed im in, working with the blm, im guaranteed at least a year, probably two, occasionally more. The paperwork and time involved is just ridiculous and very burdensome. So, you know, in your discussion with fellow ranchers in wyoming, and youre more or less confident about the economic direction of ranching are you more or less confident in the economic direction of ranching and farming under this administration versus dealing with the Previous Administration . Yes. Very much so. Okay. What do you think has changed to make things better for ranching and farming in wyoming and in other states . Definitely have a cando attitude in the agencies. There is a desire to work with the people on the land. Again, back to what we had prior to the last administration. We had people that in the agencies that were reaching out and identifying the issues that we could get together on. Prior to that, it was a very negative environment and the morale in the agencies was horrible. We were losing good people right and left. I think the end of the answer to your previous question, you talked about how much time it takes to do some of this federal paperwork. You know, in 2008 when the epa provided an exemption to small farms and ranches from reporting animal waste and emissions, the agency determined that limiting the scope of reporting under those two laws would reduce the time burden on farms and ranchers required to report. This was their estimation to epa in 2008, 1,290,000 hours over a tenyear period. Now the d. C. Circuit court overturned that exemption, as you know, in april of 2017, forcing farmers and ranchers to report all of these things. So id say, mr. Hansen, maybe mr. Mill and duvall, the producers you represent, do they have the ability to spend this kind of time trying to comply with these laws . Mr. Chairman, the major problem no, we dont have the time, but we dont have the tools. There is no way to do it on a range livestock operation. Its impossible. Mr. Duvall . Yes, sir. You know, when we start thinking about reporting, and i expected this question would probably come up because it is a big question across farmland. There is an individual farmer concern that we have, but id like for the committee to think about two other concerns. One being Public Safety concerns. You know, if we asked 200,000 farmers to report to the National Response center, which is where they have to respond to, it will overwhelm them and draw resources away from actual emergencies. The second issue id like for you to think about is the National Security issue. Because as our farmers start reporting their animals and whats being emitted there, then were going to create a roadmap. Anybody can find any farm anywhere where our food system is produced. Those people that lurk around our world trying to do harm to our country and to our people will have access to our food supply. That is a very dangerous area to go into. Ill talk about the individual farmer. The individual farmer is will have to give up his personal information, where he lives, and that puts him exposes him to being harassed by activists all around. Dont think thats not happening because it does happen. Dr. Hill, anything youd like to add to this . As my friend from wyoming said, they dont have the tools to do that, and the names study was designed to help epa develop those factors, which that program was done back in the early 2000s. In the early 2,000s and still hasnt been completed. We would at least like to see those factors developed so that producers do have some way of estimating. It would only be estimates of what their emissions are, in case they do have to report it. The other thing is we dont consider farming and the emissions from a farm as an emergency. Thats an everyday process. And we ask ourselves who wants this information. In some cases its the advocates that dont want livestock production and they can misuse that information. In the case of prestige farm, trying to build a packing plant in iowa, they had reported back in earlier their emissions in 45 farms and the activists brought that information and made the people in the community believe that those 45 reports were violations and got the people so aroused that they eventually voted down allowing that packing plant to occur. Thank you very much. Senator carper . I would like to ask senator boker asked me to yield. Im happy to do that. Renewal fuel standards in delaware and parts of our country. The issue that is before us here is east coast refineries and lack of clarity. And that is the issue that our governor is raising. We actually need epa can help us resolve this. Weve asked them to help us do that and play a constructive role. My hope is that they will. Without objection. Thank you, senator barrasso and thank you for your generosity, senator carper. Come to washington, asking for help. 60,000 people live in this county in North Carolina. There are 2 million pigs being raised there to produce pork. And the waste from 2 million pigs, as you probably know, is equivalent to the waste of 20 Million People that they would produce. The primary pig waste is being disposed of is piping it in open air and spraying it out on to open fields. These residents came to washington, complaining about suffering from very serious medical problems, higher rates of asthma, eye infection and depression. I was so astonished by this, we dont have these in new jersey, that i went down to the county to see firsthand what was going on. I saw the pig waste being sprayed. I watched it with my own eyes, how was misting off the spray fields into the local community, carrying on to adjacent properties and the wretched smell everywhere we went around there in peoples communities and their homes is something i wont forget. I met with local residents in a large group and heard their stories, painful stories about how the Drinking Water in their wells had been poisoned by runoff and how they felt like prisoners in their own home. They couldnt run their air conditioners, couldnt open their windows. And so while i agree its important to make sure farmers dont have regulations and red tape, something has to be done about horrible conditions i saw that nobody would want their families to live in thats harming farmers and local communities they live in. I really want to be clear here. I do not think it should be contract farmers who, too, are living in challenging conditions, often making very low wages at really rough margins. Some of those hardworking people i met, they should not have to solve this problem. Its the big, huge, integrators who make billions of dollars in profits, one of the Biggest Companies down there is a chineseown ed can company that in many ways, with the pork being shipped to their company, theyre outsourcing these problems to us while taking the benefit of our pork. And so, mr. Hill, my time is shofrt. But this is one of the more painful things ive seen as an american. And its a long answer to the question, im sure. Just to respect my limited time, could you please provide to me a written response for the record about what steps your industry is taking to reduce the harmful impact of what i saw and what theyre having on people. Can you provide that answer for me in writing, sir . Possibly we can do that. You know, we have the largest population of swine in iowa and weve used new technology to apply manure. We dont see that as sir, just for my own time, i apologize. I dont mean to interrupt you. I have other questions. Could you respond in writing . What i saw there, no human being should have to live in those conditions. Property values around those cafos have gone way down. People have been on that soil since the 1800s. Please just respond to me in writing. I have other questions i would like to ask you, mr. Hill. Some of these family farmers are right behind you, incredible americans who ive come to have reverence and respect for. They have expressed a different problem, pork check i dont have program. They often feel it doesnt work to their interest but are required to pay into. The federal court found payments of millions of dollars of checkoff funds from the pork board to your organization, Pork Producers Council were improper and said they must stop. Senator lee, republican senator from utah and i, have introduced a bipartisan bill that would make reforms to the checkoff program. Do you agree it would be beneficial to make those programs more transparent so that family farmers, like the folks behind you, who are doing so much of the real work in america, can quickly see the budgets and expenditures proofbed by theproofb approved by the usda . Theres a fundamental fairness for, again, these small family farmers struggling so much. Do you agree that checkoff funds should only be used in ways that benefit all farmers paying into them, especially and including small family farmers here today . And they are. They are being used to the benefit of everybody. We export now 26 of all of our pork. That increases the value of every pig about 50. In 1993, we were a net importer of pork. So, those funds are used for a lot of Different Things but part of it is used for developing customers outside of the United States, which our industry depends on, which helps every producer raising pigs. Sir, my time has expired mr. Chairman, but a judge has disagreed with the gentlemans answer and you can see from the heads shaking back and forth, no, there are a whole bunch of farmers across the country that are not getting the benefit and are feels mistreated by this program. Thank you, senator becomer. Thank y thank you, mr. Chairman. Having chaired this committee for a number of years its not difficult to understand, come to the conclusion that these costly and outrageous rules are about one thing and one thing only and thats control. Ive looked at some of the regulations this administration has done away with. And jumping up from 1. 5 a year to over 3 a year. And good things are happening. One of the regulations that i was doing, trying to do away with this was a year ago, the first one that this president was successful in doing away with, with the congressional review process was a rule that was put in by the Previous Administration that said that if youre a domestic oil and gas company and youre competing with china or someone else, you have to give them all the play book youre using. Actually putting them at a disadvantage over our option overseas. Now, it was easy to draw up a cra and pass it. It did pass. We had a signing ceremony. You know, the fact that we have all these regulations out there, its really pretty outrageous. Mr. Duvall, you mentioned in your opening statement, you talked about the wotus bill. I wasnt around my state of oklahoma before you took a position and most of other organizations took the same position that were representing farmers. In my area of western oklahoma, its very errant. Those people out there have all the regulations put in by the Previous Administration. That was the number one regulation. And it ended up being the number one regulation also from the American Farm bureau and other regulations. I would just ask you if theres anything that you didnt say about that particular regulation that would either be costly, how would it be costly or inconvenient and have a negative effect. Yes, sir. If you start looking at some of the conservation practices we put on the ground to protect our soil and where the on our farms and you start transitioning land from one use to another, not commercialed agriculture, but one agriculture practice to another, there are many procedures in certain areas of the country or the country has to go through to get that to be tieable to do that. Are you familiar with the panhandle of oklahoma . Not commonly. Their concern was after a rain that could all of a sudden be considered to be a wetland and all of a sudden you lose the state jurisdiction and the federal jurisdiction takes over, was that one of the you see that consistently around the country . I see it consistently. And also i see a variance of determination between agencies of what really is a wet land, whats not. Thats exactly right. Its unclear to farmers how they can perceive what their land really i appreciate that very much. Because that certainly is true. Mr. Hanson, im going to do this real quickly here. You probably are familiar with what we tried to do with the esa. We had seven states im sorry, five states, oklahoma, texas, kansas, new mexico and colorado. They got together and they determined what they could do and what kind of reform they could have. Everyone agreed it was near perfect. Everyone deciding at home what the solution was. Now, do you have any you sometimes wonder if we go through all that trouble in the private sector, land owners and the land owners we know are the ones who are most concerned about the endangered species. What is it you look at others doing that and the government doesnt seem to put much weight behind that. Im talking about local suggestions, local programs that are working. Ever thought about that, mr. Hanson . All the time, senator. Working to try to find a solution to an issue identified on the land. The fish and Wildlife Service was privy to all the conversations, all the negotiations. They knew what was coming. They agreed to it and pulled the rug out from under those officers. Thats exactly what happened. Fish and wildlife did agree and they also agree that the best stewards of the land are the land owners themselves. So, they need to be listened to also. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Senator carper. Im happy to yield to senator berkeley. And ill have some questions later on. Thank you very much, senator. Appreciate you all bringing your experiences here to capitol hill. One of the things that is important to my farmer back in oregon is the agricultural resource service. Administration had proposed significant cut, 360 million cut to ars and closing 17 ars laboratories across the country. Recognizing impact on our crop, diseases and importance of exploring the qualities of different plants that might work under different conditions. So, mr. Duvall, with your role, do you support the Agriculture Research service . By all means, senator. Its so important for our country to invest in research and development in agricultural business. And if you look around the world, being outspent in research and Development Dollars and that really is alarming to us and very concerning to us, that other part of the world are having the opportunity to catch up and go ahead in some areas. Research and development is a very key thing that we need to do to help our farmers stay on the cutting edge of being competitive. Im not sure what the next trump budget will look like. Well have it soon. Itf it pros proe opposes cuts again i hope well have your support. I second a piece that is important to a number of my farmers and ranchers, Conservation Programs, stewardship program, Environmental Quality program or equip. This weekend i was out visiting the 16 little towns in northeast oregon. And in one of the towns, i met with a rancher, also a local county commissioner. He said his ranching operation would have gone down if it wasnt for the Conservation Program that helped provide support and resources to make the balance, if you will, the books balance. I hadnt heard it put quite in those terms, making the difference between making it or not making it. In general, as farm bureau supporting these Conservation Programs . Yes, sir. You also hit on another topic very important to us. If were going to be required by regulation to do certain things and, of course, as farmers, we want to be able to have a partnership to help us do the right thing. Help us do the right thing. Were making huge investments ourselves in those these are voluntary programs, it is a sway when f everyone. And cost sharing. Also talked to me about his concern on the stage grass. We had a voluntary program where ranchers can adopt a certain number of majors and are protected from any rules the endangered species act might invoke in the future having been upfront and helping, hundreds of ranchers in oregon, i am noting they are concerned about the partnership that had been put together to try to avoid a listing might fall apart under pressures from the Current Administration. Also wanted to ask about the agricultural workforce. Many of us from orchardist to winemakers and growers in every field, the importance of farmworkers to make the economy function and a whole lot of traditional workers not showing up under the current prevailing commentary and attitude towards the role of farmworkers. Does the farm bureau support working to essentially embrace the role of our farmworkers as part of our cultural economy . Our existing farmworkers here in the country are steelworkers and our business requires steelworkers it is vitally important, the biggest limiting factor to farms to be productive, add to the economy of their community and create additional jobs whether it be on the farm or manufacturing or performing finished products of our commodities so it is a critical issue, the most restraining issue we have outside of regulation. I look forward to working with you all as we endeavor to address this challenge. Thank you, mister chairman. Senator wicker. My friend from new jersey outlined a very graphic situation in North Carolina and i want to give you an opportunity to respond to that because the response on the record will be helpful to hundreds of people but there are thousands of people listening on television that need to know what you are about to tell us is it doesnt have to be that way in your farms in iowa, you have a solution. What we are talking about is a reporting requirement, congress, we thought we recognized certain farmers should be excluded from this reporting requirement and the us court of appeals for the dc circuit disagreed with this exemption, the decision has been stayed and farmers dont know where they are. I notice that mister scuse said that we need a legislative fix and doctor will and zippy duvall agree with that. We cannot keep putting farmers on notice wondering when they will be hit with legal liability for untimely or inaccurate reporting. Maybe we have a bipartisan support here and consensus that we need a legislative fix. I will tell members of the panel senator fisher and senator donnelly, republican and a democrat intent introduce legislation this week if there agriculture reporting act which clarifies this rule to exempt all animal feeding operations from secular reporting and small operations from reporting requirements so if you could speak to that, doctor hill and zippy duvall, but finish your thoughts that might give some reassurance that they dont have to experience what was described by my friend from new jersey. We would support that bill 100 , we need clarity. What producers fear now is they will use in adequate tools to estimate these emissions and if they are wrong they will get huge penalties. That bill would be supported by us. Senator booker misrepresented the pork industry, i worked in North Carolina for five years. That is a gross misrepresentation of the farms in North Carolina. These Different Technology than we do in iowa. They have a growing property, we do not, they use spray fields to apply mainly the water lagoons, it is not raw manure they are putting on the bermuda grass. In iowa almost all of our manure today is incorporated to prevent runoff and prevent smell so we feel we have made tremendous progress in this man nor application and theres new technology for pit additives, polymers that reduce odor dramatically that producers are using. That along with crops, we assume tremendous increase in cover crops in iowa so i producers are trying to do everything they can to be good stewards. What would the farm bureau think about this legislation i described from senator donnelly and senator fisher . Do we agree that what were talking about is an unfortunate decision by the Circuit Court about a reporting requirement on small operations . We do agree with that and we applaud the senator getting involved in trying to fix something that is wrong and be very difficult. My neighbor to my left claimed eloquently it would put our farmers at risk. I have 400 mama cows, in greensburg, georgia, how am i going to report that . I have four chicken houses. How am i going to report that . It is a big liability, no need in doing it and it was not the intent so we would agree with that. Thank you very much, and thank you, mister chairman. Senator duckworth. Thank you to our witnesses for joining this important conversation. The Agricultural Community is our backbone and also our heart. When our farmers thrive the entire state thrives. One policy of criminal importance to our farmers is the renewable fuel standard which requires a Transportation Fuel to be mixed with biofuels, since it was an act of the policy help us cut our dependence on foreign oil and Greenhouse Gas emissions which is critical to our efforts to combat Climate Change. It is also an important economic policy. In illinois and no, fourth job are supported and generates 5 billion in economic impact, nationwide it supports 86,000 jobs and help generate 8. 7 billion in tax revenue that go to schools, roads, firefighters, responders, can you please share how we are reviving reuland agricultural communities . I would like to comment on the chairmans comment earlier about Governor Carney and his opposition to the renewable fuel standard, you deals with purchase of the credits and blending and that is something that needs to be addressed because of the speculation that has driven the cost up and that is something that does need to be addressed but when you look at the renewable fuel standard and what it has been able to do on Rural Communities, we are producing 4. 6 bushels of corn every year. If we were not producing that for the all industry which is improving our environment, the and producing corn in this country. Looking at feed value of the byproducts, in 2012 when we had one of the worst drought in the history of the United States and there were those who argued the renewable fuel standards aside because of fear there would not be enough corn livestock producers, traveling across the United States talking to producers, livestock producers in every state i visited said please do not allow epa to set the fuel standard aside. We need to feed our livestock whether it was dairy industry, pork industry or beef industry, looking at a more costeffective feed, senator moran said it like you just did, depending on the health and wellbeing of reformers and ranchers and renewable fuel standard created jobs and improved the environment and give producers another outlet for crops they produce to help keep those Rural Communities viable. Changing biofuel production in this country is epa administrator pruitt comes from an oilproducing state had called to do for the rfs can actually negatively impact farm income. Yes, it could have and would have a large negative impact on the price that our producers are receiving for the corn they produce and the reality is most vehicles on the road today could use feed 15. We now have stations across the United States that are putting in blend pump so producers or consumers have a choice and in many cases there are stations that provide e 85 so i think that is the direction we need to go for the renewable energy, not something that is not ones that we have to pump out of the ground that is not renewable and this one is helping our Rural Communities across the country and livestock producers. I have been burning e 85 in my f150 since 2006. 55 of my home state is experiencing Drought Conditions and the trend nationally is Drought Conditions are on the rise. Whether you believe they are associated with changing climate are not our farmers and ranchers are concerned the growing seasons are changing and not necessarily for the better. Is a farmer and leader in the Agricultural Community can you share what tools and Resources Farmers and ranchers need to adapt to these changing climate conditions . Thank you. In my own, in kansas it is very obvious we have a changing climate. I see farmers getting ready to plant corn and go out in fields and i shake my head. They get their machines ready and want to be the first ones out in the field and actually it is working more and more. In my own operation, i was an organic farmer for 13 years. I finally gave that up because of the changing weather patterns and springs have changed so much that it got to the point that i couldnt slip in between weather events and get the groundwork the bed worked down and planted and so i had to change my operation to match the weather patterns. Farmers are planning more and more on catastrophic events. The governor of iowa a few years back talked about the goal of iowa to deal with Climate Change by tiring the entire state. Weather patterns affect different areas dramatically. I happen to be on top of the world so i dont have to worry about floods but i do have to worry about maintaining my streambanks and the everchanging climate. Especially livestock. Thank you. Senator fisher. Thank you, mister chairman. Im excited you are holding this hearing today. I am a rancher. I appreciate senator duckworths comment about farming and ranching communities as the backbone and heart of the state. That is true in nebraska as well so thank you. What a great panel we have, farmers union, farm bureau, love your comments on the rfs eddie 15. I have some legislation on that so that is great. I appreciate that you had the opportunity to respond when senator wicker asked you to earlier comments made by senator booker. I appreciate that. My husband and i have a cattle ranch. Our sons are fourthgeneration sandhills ranchers. We understand conservation. We understand being true environmentalists. Our family does. Our neighbors in the sandhills do. Ag producers all across the state of nebraska do and ag producers, farmers and ranchers all across the United States understand it. We take care of the land, we live on the land, we want clean air, we want clean water and we manage our livelihood, our lives to make sure we have that and that we continue to preserve it for future generations. Im going to talk to another rancher now. Mister hansen, thank you so much for being here which i would like to build on senator bharat sos comment a little bit if we can. When you and your statement discussed reporting requirements for animal waste voters, with circular reports those are directed to the National Response center and that is operated by United States coast guard. I dont know if people are aware of that, they are used by the federal government to facilitate a government coordinated Emergency Response effort to animal waste voters and to me this doesnt make a lot of sense. Not only is there no added value of these reporting requirements but the abundance of farm reports, that is going to jam up the response personnel at the National Response center and prevents him from responding to true emergencies. Mister hansen, can you please describe what measures Cattle Producers would have to take to comply with all of these reporting requirements . Thank you, senator. We have no tools to do that so i cant answer the question. Im sorry. You cant fill out the report . Exactly. Mister zippy duvall and doctor who were talking about privacy concerns and concerns with activists coming onto personal private property, anything to add to comments you made earlier on that . Farmers and ranchers in a difficult economy right now, we dont need to put any burden on these and this puts a huge liability on them. Farmers and ranchers are not doing anything wrong out there but when you give them a tool, i would answer saying we have no way of measuring that. We have to hire some expert in the government to disagree with the experts and a different one spend thousands of dollars we cant afford to do in a very bad economy even when it is good for the economy. You mention in your written testimony that compliance challenges producers face as a result of spill prevention control and countermeasure for fuel storage and would include a provision i champions that would provide more flexibility this overreach continues to weigh heavily on the minds of farmers and ranchers in nebraska and across our country. This rule was originally applied to Oil Refineries but now ag producers are being forced to also comply. What do you believe must be done so that we can alleviate that burden of that rule for our farmers and ranchers . On the fuel storage . Thank you, senator. We just need to exempt the people on the ground, such a different situation, the risk is minimal compared to what it was designed to address. In the Previous Administration there was a study done that we requested on this and i would point out one of the areas studied was leakage of jet fuel. I dont know many farms and ranchers have jet fuel there so i think when you have a flawed study it leads to flawed policy and flawed decisionmaking so i would hope we could move ahead not just on the circular rule but on the f pcc and other number of rules that are out there that people on the land every day producers who are trying to take care of their families, take care of their communities, find such a disadvantage in trying to fight government every single day, thank you. Thank you. Senator carper. On a lighter note before we started the hearing i asked what are you going to notice where did you get a name like zipy . Very briefly. Mister devol also noted zipy. First time i have ever been asked that in a congressional hearing. We could put you under oath. By my fathers words he said i was my mothers first csection, second child, he was wanting a big family to get his farm work done, when it disappointed him, the nurses, that is a piece of cake and we what is up her in her stomach so i got nicknames upper and it moved over to zip zippy duvall. It is not impeded your progress in life. I want to just clarify what you said earlier, the Agricultural Committee has not heard from this administration. Is that what you said . I thought i heard you say you talked about hearing from the Previous Administration with respect to the Advisory Committee and also you have not heard yet by phone, email or whatever from the Current Administration, did i hear you correctly . Yes. Administrator mccarthy reappointed me right before she left position with intention of having continuation from the previous Advisory Group to the next Advisory Group. And so i would have liked to have bought if there was any action going on i would have known about it. A loss for us all. Thank you for telling us that. Secretary scuse, help us to understand was it not the intention and results of the Obama Administrations clean water rule to create certainty in the regulatory process. I heard for years farmers didnt understand they needed clarity in terms of Developers Needed clarity and certainty without getting into trouble by raising crops in ways that are inconsistent with the clean water act. As a result the effort was we did a town hall meeting on a farm you may recall and farmers and developers, folks from the army corps of engineers, this was a couple years ago, to understand what was being asked but what was needed in the way of certainty and it sounds from the testimony we have heard here that everything was fine, we didnt have uncertainty before. We had a lot and so it was an effort to deal with that. You were in the middle of all this, the acting secretary, acting deputy secretary, your thoughts on the inside. Thank you, senator. We need to take a step back and look at why all of this happened and if memory serves me correctly all of this resulted from a Supreme Court hearing with the epa in the chicago area where there was a wetland that they deemed was waters of the us that was not connected to any other waters. When you look at the confusion with that case, the epa attempted to define what were waters of the us and the overreach by the epa and attempting to come to what constituted waters of the us. That is when we started down the road to look at what does constitute waters of the us and what we need to put in place to protect certain waters that we have across the United States and so the last administration attempted to bring that certainty to the producers and other areas of the United States for what was waters in the us and as the senator pointed out there were hearings in the state of delaware, reached out to all of our communities we thought would be infected but i dont know had that happened in other areas of the United States but this was an attempt by the Obama Administration to bring some clarity that was being demanded by all the sectors, not boast the Agriculture Sector but other sectors as to what did constitute waters of the us. My recollection, the us, four years of extensive Public Outreach and regulation, hundreds of meetings, farmers, ranchers, developers, state local leaders and others in our state. 1200 peerreviewed scientific studies, robust legal policy and economic analysis, consideration over 1 million Public Comment without any effort to rebut the rule or build a credible basis to pursue a different course. I am told they were all responded to. I want to put that out for the record, thank you for your clarification as well. One last question, thank you for coming, appreciate what you do with your families and appreciate your being here and sharing your insights with us regardless of what your first names are. Rather as the chairman i like to look rather than a conflict with one another i see many potential opportunities for a winwin outcome with regard to environmental policy and farming and ranching communities would you talked about that today. For example precision application, fertilizer, reducing nitrogen runoff and Greenhouse Gas emissions, go to farming is another example, often times there are various preventatives when achieving winwin outcomes. We in congress can break down those barriers so that we can see these opportunities and give us a good example of an opportunity waiting to be seen if we would seize it. It might help us achieve that and starting off, i said he had his hat on and everything, one of my favorite cds, Glen Campbells greatest hits, the first song, rhinestone cowboy, you are the real deal. Would you do that . Would you lead us off please, looking for winwin. This is another winwin opportunity. You cited a number of them in your testimonies, winwin opportunities, clean environment, clear air and water and a more profitable farming, they Work Together, dont exclude each other. Maybe an example where we can do that, should do that. If you have an example of an area you think is fertile for us to explore and participate we would be happy to do that. If anybody else wants to jump in, you look like you are ready to Say Something. There are a lot of situations we have regulations that are overlapping and we are looking into things twice. If we could simplify and do it efficiently, for example for over 40 years, we had the opportunity of doing pesticides. No reason for the clean water act to be involved and ask them to make the same judgment. As they have been doing for 40 years and that is just one example. Farmers and ranchers want to do the right thing. In the past we used to go to Extension Service or fsa to ask for advice and get help and look to do the right thing on the farm. We are scared of federal agencies now. We are fearful of them because we know they could cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to hire consultants and lawyers, we want to be a part of the federal government, we want to have agencies that are friendly to us and we are hoping we can work with you to make that happen. Mister hill . I would use the example of Nutrient Reduction Program we have in iowa that is supported by our governor or past governor and Current Governor and also our secretary of agriculture, a voluntary cooperative project that was funded by the state legislature for a 10 year period, 300 million, projects that producers work in conjunction with state regulatory agencies to put processes in place to reduce runoff, reduce examination of water and i think it is the right way to go, cooperative, voluntary program rather than somebody from washington coming down and saying this is what you have to do. Producers respond to a heck of a lot better. It reminds me of what we did in delaware, when you reply for us, michael . Theres a lot of different examples. I look at what we did in delaware when you created the Nutrient Management Commission and the great things we have been able to do to clean up our waters that ultimately discharged into the chesapeake, there is a great example of everyone working together to make it happen. And the latest Chesapeake Bay model i think will be pleased to know that delaware has had tremendous improvements in a very short period of time. We heard about the act for those that are endangered species. Im here to tell you there are some things that can be done differently, but in my home state of delaware, your home state of delaware, pretty much every day now i am seeing bald eagles. Every day now, im seeing ba eagles. Something that when i was a child, we never, ever saw today. You look at some of the other things that are occurring bald eaglors Philadelphia Eagles . I couldnt resist. I could not resist. Excuse me. Good catch, senator. I said bald eagles. I meant Philadelphia Eagles. You know, you look at by working together. We all know, all of us at this table understand there are serious issues with honey bees across the United States and with usda, epa and the partners are working together to help find a solution to those problems in areas we are making a difference. S s the Monarch Butterfly is an issue where we have seen rapid declines of the Monarch Butterfly but now we had states working with our federal partners to plant milkweed along our highways to make sure that we have the proper habitat. Ng another is legislation it helps the companies do the researchno for our producers to help them do a better job and get better products to our producers. Ur there is no doubt about it. There can be a better job in many of these areas. I think what we need to do is Work Together with all of those who are ultimately impacted. With the implementation of information. Would you raise your hand. If you prove that message. Theres two things i like to discuss both of those are in regards to adapting the common change which is something im passionate about. The number one is whatever we do as we move forward to mitigate climate problems is a huge part of that for cultural involvement. E if the cap and trade ever comes to be and we can implement a Carbon Trade Program that is pain the producer for doing the right thing. That is just logical. In the model there can be very successful. Its not going to be the only solution to the problem but a key part of it. The further revolution of those. If we can grow beyond the status of corn ethanol. Into crops and higher value crops that use less moisture and nutrients. We could see dramatic differencesre with Renewable Fuels. Mister chairman i go to wyoming about every other week we have great pressures for that. A lot of people will come which is good i drives development. We have to be careful that we dont over develop our states. A lot of things we worked on when i was governor when you work with those people. How do we encourage farmers to stay on the land. One of the best ways to do that is the farmers been able to make money and be profitable. Ur you just mentioned a couple of things that will help to do that. I think we need to be mindful of that. There is a lot we agree on. The colleague from wyoming likes to talk about the 8020 rule. Explain why he got so much done on the health labor committee. Introduce me to the 8020 rule. What we decided to do was focus on the 80 where we agree. E. Its right out of the mouth of a former mayor. Its actually a good rule not just for the education committee. But for the congress as a whole. Thank you for bringing us together. It looked like you were trying to Say Something to answer that question. I would like to address s that. I have to ask your forgiveness. Im very dedicated about what i do a but i but i cant hear a thing. When it comes to working together we have with the area. And the field is right. We have proven that there is a Common Ground and theres a lot of Common Ground but we always run intove the headache of the federal regulation we get tied up. In the paperwork in the decisionmaking process on something that should be really simple to do. Expanded authority on the exclusions if we can get a lot of the red tape pulled out of the way. The unnecessary questions and time tables would really assist us in improving things on the land. On our operation we had increase o our elk population. And had increased our live stocks. Creating a more profitable operation. And when i ask at three of you earlier about the time it would take to try to do some of this paperwork requirementsrl while you raise the issue about trying to report on the release is the coast guard. They had expressed concern that this dramatic increase is going to overwhelm the capacity to deal with this. They estimate the value of calls they get now. It would increase from hundred calls per day to over thousandat hindering their own ability to respond. Sometimes government comes up with ideas in mandates that make it a lot harder for them to do the job that we need them to do we do had one question. It has to do with waters of the u. S. In the core of engineers is agency that makes the vast majority of jurisdictional determinations. According to testimony this Committee Heard the court was not includedrd fully in this whole process that we just had outlined here in terms of developing the 2015 rule. In fact the court stated that they did not believe that the rule in that preamble as finallyyho was there. Viable from a factual scientific or legal basis in the court went on to say that it would be incredibly difficult for the Court Leaders to advance and defend this role. That is a core of engineers. They also testified that statements and characterizations that its a joint product the core set it flat out falls. Given these statements by the corps of engineers how much faith do we head in the Science Behind the current role as o opposed by the Previous Administration. In Different Court districts give different people that is making those determinations and judgments and it has no scientistic basis that they can base their decisions on. We can show you situation after situation where farmers had spent money. And was able to for a permit for regulatory person. And send you back to the drawing board to spend that money again and try to get them to agree with you. And its all over the board. There is no consistency. I have the opportunity to have o lunch with Mister Pruitt the other day. And he asked meco what we need in the clean water act. I said a farmer ought to be especially better at the people looking at it from a computer. We ought to be able to ride out and be able to identify what the waters are. And if we can do that we can take a huge financial burden off of our farmers. We can create more jobs and add to our communities in were and were not going to destroy that. Every piece of it is like my house. E i want my great grandchildren to be able to be there. To submit additional documents that are there from the regulatory impacts. And to say to our friends and witnesses, and thank you so much for joining us today. Other members may submit questions for the record. We ask that you respond quickly. I want to thank all of the witnesses for the type and testimony on this important issue. Hearing is adjourned. Thks [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] President Trump delivers remarks at the annual National Prayer breakfast this morning. That is live at 8 00 here on cspan two. Members of the british house of commons and investigates socalled fake news and they hear from representatives of google, facebook and twitter. Live coverage at 9 00 a. M. From George Washington university at cspan three. Sunday on cspan q a. Doug mills talks about the photos he took while covering President Trump. Obviously he enjoys having us around. I really believe that despite his constant comments about fake a fake news in the media and so forth i really feel like he enjoys having us around. He is constantly driving the message. And then having us around really allows him to do that