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This book. Guest on a lot of the viewers may know me from cnn. You and i been on several of those panels throughout the election after, but but i realy came from a little smalltown called platte city florida and for those of you who eat strawberries its the world strawberry capital. If youre eating strawberries, good chance they come from plant city. It was important to me to write a book that just explored my roots, but how i see this election to the present i grew up in. Not to the confines of the scene a new set or in washington were a service rnc spokesperson but to the present of being a smalltown girl and the movement that i recognize early on when i endorsed President Trump to be the president , and three months after he declared his candidacy eyesight movement on the rising along with a few others and i think when my colleagues recognize that moment as well. Although he recognized it from the left wing of his party. Host lets talk about van jones. There are a few people in the book who make appearances in some ways surprising, van jones was part of the Obama Administration took a lot of people, a lot of conservatives at one point out of ms sort of a bogeyman. What was your experience with them . Guest i was included in that. I always saw banjos as this radical leftwingers are an easy to some of your opponent on the other end of gamma before you ever know them. A lot of us in this country are partisan, if you identify with the right or the left. Easy to some of your counterpart as best identify with the party. But when i came to know banjos as a person not a political person i was was taking back and surprise. Remember my first night before i took the stage on the scene and Election Panel during the primaries, right before i did, id gotten criticism, if you are a pundit or political figure, chances are you get a lot of trolls and a lot of angry viewers. One of those angry viewers setting i did take off my cross because i wasnt worthy by supporting President Trump van jones didnt know that, and is about to the corner before, nervously before my first seen in panel, i heard a voice rang out from a crowd of commentators and the boy said i love your cross. Those were the first words that van jones said to me. I came to know him both at night and the many nights we spent together to election 2016 as a person come as a friend as a mentor and a just shattered this idea of summing up the other side whether it be the bernie voter or the hillary voter or the trump voter. Host van jones isnt the only liberal commentator who has been kind to you and mentor to pick one of the of the people you write about is the late alan combs. What did he media . Mean to you . Guest i was joked that liberals and those on the left have really helped me about my career, even though you know me, im a very rightwing strong conservative individual but alan combs when i was an intern on the set of hannity and columns, they were both wonderful to me but alan really kept up with me during my time at cnn and he would watch, i just learned this week, almost brings tears to my eyes think about it, but he would put on the tv and watch me on cnn and he would always see me messages as he watched me. I did know we cant be on at his radio show and ive learned that from his producer this week but he would reject any and it remember i was only you taking me daily, remember, dont fight fire with fire. Fight fire with water. It reminds me that in those heated moments to be calm, take a breath and to allow people to see her point of view intellectually and not through your emotions or your anger. Host lets talk about the new American Revolution book. For those who havent read it what is a broad theme of the book . Guest thats a great question. I use the word populist conservatively and i think conservatives say to me why do you use this word . Im not populist. I that liberals express aversion to the board. Commit sums up what this book is about and its the people. I wanted to honestly profile the people on the left and on the right. Most of the voters a profile or trump voters but i but i did pe some who were not. So to me it was capturing the sentiment that drove an electorate to deliver one of the most astonishing electoral defeat i think weve seen certainly in my lifetime and certainly i think in modern history. Pixel is a profile of the American People on issues from terrorism to poison water in flint, michigan,. Host i was it as an explainer come if your summary lives inside the beltway and youre like how on earth did donald trump went . What was happening across america that would lead people to want to change and of this revolution . Why would they vote for this guy . This book, you profile a lot of different americans who are enduring a lot of different problems. This would be a good explainer to help people get why this moment happen. Guest thats right. When we were discussing this book earlier, you mentioned hillbilly elegy and its mention in the amazon profile for my book because i think of sediment over thats really the only piece of work i can point to that we try to describe a moment in history, a moment in this election and the people who made that moment happen. Of course hillbilly elegy profile that group of voters in west virginia. He didnt profile them as voters but as people, workers come swing voters in this election. I wanted to take a broader look. Cant profile the whole country but i sat down at my desk and about down the issues i think determined this election. Among them were terrorism, the va weightless, flint, michigan, was a part of it and i tried to their individual and then i traveled the country to texas, a mom who lost her son and has been in the nice terrorist attack and South Carolina to profile of wood of the loss her husband on the wait list and try to get to the heart of what drove for making this decisionmaking. Host just in terms of the process of writing a book like this i would imagine it seems very simultaneously timeconsuming and emotionally draining. Most of these stories even though some of them have happy endings, people purser brewing, they went really hard times and almost everything a person you interviewed. Persevering. Talk about the time and the process. Guest its a great question because as you and i know in the world of political punditry and you as a writer you have a million things going on at one time. A speaking gig or a panel or an article you want deadline for vick is easy to get caught up in the monotony of having political discussions with other partisans on the other side of the aisle. For me to leave the confines of new york, leave the confines of d. C. And go out and talk to the people, i did know what i woud fight. At first to see what something to go and into, another interv, another piece of writing. But when we to their homes and sat in the log cabin with a family that lost their Police Officer site and i saw their tears and i saw their sevenyearold daughter about to turn eight running around the house with my little puppy in her arms and she drew the picture that said thank you for writing her dads story who died in a tragic story, but when sr and i saw this daughter and about the story i realize that she would come to know her father not just through to thes of her loved ones but largely to the worked on this page. To me it became deeply personal, something emotional but something uplifting to see how americans overcame the darkest hour. Host also something really reporting about being a book author as opposed to even a tv commentator because i mean i guess youtube clips can live on but when you write something in a book that gets out and put on a bookshelf, it does, theres a legacy to that and that can be passed down. That something thats like documenting a moment in time. I guess theres a pretty profound responsibility you have when youre writing about people. You know, loved ones and what they went through. Guest thats right. Thats how i saw it, the responsible to the stories until the legacies of these individuals, especially the first four chapters which are our families that lost loved ones. As a personal sacred duty to share these individuals were, and so in the nice terrorist attack we do so much on cable news exploring the perpetrator of the terrorist attack or the gunmen in a a given situation. But what about the victims . What about the husband abdul forward and pushed his little son, 11yearold brody out of the way when the truck was barreling towards them . What about their story . At the opening chapter of my book and tell you Shawn Copeland was to brody was . We all know when that truck barreled through a crowded group of people in nice france that we do the stories of people rose to the occasion and committed amazing acts of heroism . That was my goal was to share their stories. Host right. Another theme along with that is police. You have one story about a Police Officer who was killed, actual not even in the line of duty attacking others what is actually offduty. Seems like there are several examples of kind of Law Enforcement in this book. Is that something that was important to you . Going back to the larger theme of seeing trends that were happening the lead to Donald Trumps election . Guest absolutely. I have court in in about an olivos from the Boston Herald or boston globe, they said one of the biggest reasons are Donald Trumps election was the men in blue showed up. That of course is our Police Officers. Absolutely they were driving force in this election. Law enforcement as always had a very special place in my heart because i seem larger as domestic use dont get the credit they deserve and its why it was important to talk about Justin Winebrenner and his loss of life, offduty, he rose to the occasion of fbi a little daughter and a fiance. Its important to tell the stories but i have a chapter about time at Harvard Law School. In it i talk about the importance of being aware of Racial Injustice in our criminal Justice System and how i think ultimately solving for policing issue in some of the grievances weve seen in black lives matter, for instance, having a conversation considered and realizing most Police Officers are good people, like justin. Also takes on the part of the other side acknowledging there are issues need to be resolved and looked at. I became aware of those issues at Harvard Law School. Host also at Harvard Law School you discovered another one of the themes which i think would be liberal bias in academia. I think also help drive Donald Trumps election along with other stories like that va scandal that you mentioned. I really do think that if you were to read this book, especially if you had the pauline problem, leisure said she did know anybody who voted for nixon. If youre in that camp with donald trump this book would definitely help you understand. What was happening that would make people frustrated or angry around america that you may be insulated from, if you had a fairly prosperous life . What event is also healthcare which is a story that is personally touched you. Guest thats right. I open about my story in the book, im going to read some in the second. Talk about it. Guest thats right. I plan those words carefully because its hard to tell your own story. Its easy to tell the story of others were at least its these are but at least my own story, i was bracket to positive, 84 chance of Breast Cancer in my lifetime. I learned ten years ago, ages ago it feels like a decade ago, when i i was 22 and a talk abot Health Scares and the loss of innocence it feels like when i shouldve been worrying about boys when i should have been worrying about a job as worrying about getting Breast Cancer. You have some of the words there. Host let me read from your book. Ill set it by saying i think this dovetails a larger story. You tell tell a story about soe else who is really struggling with navigating obamacare. Guest thats right. Host someone who is a Small Business owner, not a poor person per se, but their child was going through major health problems, and is probably spending hours on trying to get it straightened out. Then you tell your story. I will read it. Unexpected waterfall of tears poured down my face as i tried to comprehend the magnitude of the news. I had an 84 chance of getting Breast Cancer in my lifetime. I casually and somewhat cavalierly take in bracket two, genetic mutation test unexpected hear a positive result just days later and now prepared for the tort of emotions that would accompany it. As before i face a permit fearful and final step in my journey, a double mastectomy. You do, its got to be difficult to write about this and to talk about it. Was it tough and the hope that maybe you can help others . Guest definitely. It was important to personalize healthcare because when we talk about it and when i talk about its often in a political context. There are so many competing factors that need to be looked at. For me i told my story because one, i wanted to create Awareness Among women pickets will you know you can find that you have this gene. You can take a measure getting a preventative mastectomy which ive decided to do this you and is going to be tough and i make no qualms about that but its a decision i know i need to make. The reason i told about just creating awareness is what we talk about preexisting conditions one of the great things obamacare did do is come despite wreaking havoc on a large part of the population, was it did provide these protections that were not there for people with preexisting conditions like myself and like many other americans. It was important to tell my story because as a republican i feel like youre often demonized for not caring about this group of people. Republicans do care. Im one of them that this care about this population of people. Host and anywhere donald trump was different than a lot of conservative because he pretty much always said that we have to keep the preexisting conditions in, whatever, we will repeal and replace he wanted to do but well keep the preexisting conditions clause in there. Guest thats exactly right. I recall one of his opponents sing back to them, mi on a democratic stage debate right now . They were so taken aback by what was not republican doctrine. That was one of many of the reasons i was drawn to the president. Host you going to cite brave women have come to this before like your mom who had the courage to get a double vasectomy before it was popularized as a preventative measure and strong woman like Angelina Jolie who openly announced her decision to have a mastectomy. Guest thats right. I remember my mom getting this pic she never had Breast Cancer but she did have a breast tissue removed. She did this before Angelina Jolie cannot at a member, i was asleep at my mom called me and said go get a copy of New York Times. You have to get this. I opened it up and saw Angelina Jolie had gone public that she made this choice. For women across the country knowing Breast Cancer is one of the top killers of women, for women who have, it was an apartment moment because she made something mainstream that many women like my mom included felt ostracized for doing. She made it mainstream and i thank her for having the courage to do that. Host one of the common themes about the book is donald trump. Not everybody profiled in the book voted for donald trump but i think probably safe to say most of them did. Reading this book would give insight into the rise of that populist movement that allow donald trump to win the republican nomination and the presidency and even more, thing for people didnt vote for trump is faith. People, whether its the terrorist attack or dying because the va didnt give them proper treatment, or whatever, seems like every person most of the people what really comforted them and gave the meaning the ability to persevere was their faith. Guest absolutely. I want to be clear, despite being a accretion over and across i didnt set out to find men and women of faith. I set out to find many women who embody the issues of our time. I say this in a book, its god not government. There may be temporary help in the leader but that ultimate hope in a savior. I think was important to profile this community which i found unwittingly not by my own searching but i stumbled upon the and and women as a said when the darkest hour of life losing a child, losing her husband and it was faith they got them through. It was god the catheter and they had Amazing Stories of how it was divine outreach at a time when they felt at their lowest. Host and interestingly, a couple of other themes that i notice in the book were what might be thought of as mystical or spiritual things one of them is actually premonitions, a couple, at least two of the different people profiled in your book before something come before a major life event happen to love the one, they felt a sense of foreboding. Guest thats right. Really interesting come what of them was brody, the 11yearold boy who lost his life in the nice terrorist tactic used in the bathroom before it happened and his mom didnt want them to go in to get noticed armed guards walking down the street. She had sent a picture of it and when she went to the bathroom she noticed a guard standing there and said brody, ill going with you he said no, mom, im going to go in, just like any 11yearold boy did. He goes in and he comes out and he says, mommy, what does isis look like . He spent the next hour and a half asking isis look like. Host because its incomes are sold in the mens bathroom with a backpack open looking suspicious. Guest thats right, digging through his belongings. As i say in the book that terrorist cinda pictures brother that they from the best deal Day Festivities or from that area from the promenade, whether he was actually there that day before the attack, whether that is who brody soccer we dont know because i asked and shes oshawa that indeed was the attacker who took her sons life, but brody certain had a premonition that something was coming and so did his son died when an illegal immigrant made a lefthand turn conservative been deported, someone who had committed a felony princely but they took that illegal left turn. He took dominance life. She said her body collapsed inexplicably in a walmart parking lot at the very time her son lost his life pic she said my body knew but my mind didnt at that time. There is step definite and overwhelming theme of people who guided knew that there was something calming or something approaching. Host speaking of religion i want to read this because is about the va story. Its a veteran, before, going to resist part about religion but tell us about barry about his struggle with the va. Guest hes an amazing american and one to became the face of the va scandal when cnn broke the va scandal and its a great reporting on the struggles and the weight list of many of our veterans across country could get access to get enough face of that was barry. He kept he wasnt able to get a colonoscopy for more than year. He had a egregious symptoms not to get to in depth on this but hes still coming out, symptoms that were telltale signs of colon cancer can still unable to get a colonoscopy as he languished on the va waitlist. During his hardest time, as is approaching death, he took it upon himself to be a man of faith and share his faith with others. His prayer was god, that you will be done and not mine which is an incredible way to approach that, thats the part im going to be. In the months before her husband was bedridden, she would wake up each morning to find barry running around the backyard praying the word, and donna swarts, lord, if this burden is meant for me to carry, you let me carry it, he would say. But you set my feet on the path in which are chosen for me to walk, dont you let me stray from that path. It was reminiscent of the exquisite and paying for of jesus christ in the garden the night before his crucifixion. My father, if it is possible made this cop be taken from me, yet not as i will but as you will. Guest thats exactly right. Thats the kind of faith that inspired me, and to see that sit across from a wife who described her husbands final moments in life as being a person of faith when most people would be cursing god and upset with god that they been handed a death sentence, and ingrid government. He had this faith that said this is what, the path that god gave me. You have that faith and to see it and to hear about it, it reinvigorated my fate in this country that it doesnt matter who are leader is. We have amazing individuals, in their darkest hour fate is what got very through. Host one of the things, speaking of being in the bubble, as i was reading the story about the da i kept thinking, i think ill go to an outside doctor. But of course these are people who served our country and may not have the ability financially. This is the system they are in and it could cost them their lives thats right and donna told me about this financially when her husband died that she didnt have a ready supply of cash waiting in a pile from outside. We are a good country of people who dont have those resources to provide for her daughter in the wake of her soninlaws death. And yes, some people dont have the resources and its living in a bubble i think in manhattan and dc and not to say everyone has those resources but in the bubble of political commentary, many of us do have those resources and it was eyeopening to see americans who host as the father, to imagine your wife or your child needing treatment or surgery, and then the person, the doctor saying make an appointment for a year from now or something would be so infuriating. Guest yes. Host its understandable why people were exactly that, infuriated. Guest especially the best of us who sacrificed our lives in cases overseas and certainly imperiled our lives by fighting overseas and the one responsibility of government is to protect these men and women when they come home. Marilyn coates wasnt protected and that angst was of course a motivating factor for donna as she actually had an opportunity to confront president obama about it while she held her husbands flag and for her that was an emotional moment and most people dont get the opportunity to confront their leaders and she did. Host i want to ask you about this. I think if you look at the book in the context of this is an explainer for the phenomenon, the grassroots population nominal that led to donald trump, then clearly go through these all these issues and heartwrenching examples. That makes the case, this is why trump one but you could have written a book, i read there was an immigrant for example been in this country for 30 years, a good lawabiding citizen, has kids , mary, is being deported. You know, you could have written a book about that too and maybe drawn some different implications so ill just put it in the form of a question. How would you answer for people this is good but what youve done is cherry picking some examples that kind of buttress your political point i would argue there are several that dont. Flint michigan, another amazing american, he was disenchanted with all governments and he was honest to me and said i didnt vote trump, i didnt vote clinton, i didnt vote for anyone because washington, he lost entirely faith in our leaders. I think the most emblematic chapter of why this election happened was really my chapter on carrier workers where i had one carrier worker who was a Bernie Sanders order, one a trump supporter. Carrier is the factory bring up some of those jobs back to indianapolis but it was to me so emblematic of this, van jones would talk about onset father with in both parties on the left and the right and on the left they found their answer in Bernie Sanders and on the left right, the answer was donald trump and its a common problem, this idea of the man and woman, and a different solution. The carrier chapter is emblematic of that and we had factory workers who had Different Solutions who played cards with one another every day. They were united in betrayal is what i say and i answer the charge that there are examples in this book that dont adhere to my political viewpoints and those are two of them. The factory chapter in particular gets to the heart of this election. Host i remember reading that chapter, one of the people say i know, i know people who voted for Bernie Sanders i dont know a Single Person in the factory that is a ellery clinton, maybe the union bosses endorsed for the actual rank and file workers, i dont know a Single Person that supports hillary. Guest in the primary, exactly. It is order and the most of the unions endorsed Hillary Clinton and a sensible different standard factory workers reluctantly showed up to pass that ballot in the general, my primary and of course some stayed home and that was a motivating factor for this election. Those disenchanted democrats who stayed home as much as it was Trump Supporters within the union, the rankandfile. Host we talked about the spiritual premonition that people had before the terrorist attack, before a loved one died. There was also, it was interesting the beam of what i would call defined outreach where after somebody lost a loved one, there would be something kind of miraculous that would come to them, bring them comfort and remind them of that person. Guest back to me is the most important theme in the book because it can be sad at times, Pat Robertsons daughter, Abigail Robertson took a picture of this book with tears on the pages. There are sad moments but its uplifting. I would drive to meet these families with sadness think about their loss of loved ones but i would drive away with a sense of hope. One of the stories was can of oakland who when her husband sean, he pushed truly outoftheway as that refrigerator was coming, his broken body was picked up by her stepson often and they were running back to the hotel and at that point don didnt know whether his son had lived or died and sean was trailing behind them. He was ultimately transported to the hospital with his daughter and apparently the whole way there for the next hour and a half, he asked is trudy okay, unaware that he had saved his sons life but the son had passed from this world to the next and his last words were brody is dead caused can was convinced that in the last moments, he saw his son and baby boysaid be with me daddy and he went to be with him and said i wouldve done the same. Host be clear, the son and the father were both injured during this terrorist attack. Where he ran the truck into a crowd. But they were separate. The father didnt know if the sun was okay, the son had died i think on impact he had died but the father, sean did not know that. Host father had been saying is bernie okay but right before he died he said brody is dead. Guest he was a mile and a half away and brodies body was back at the hotel and he had no idea of knowing that brody had passed. The only way is because he saw his son in heaven and it gave me chills when he said that. Chills all down my body because as a christian i read about accounts of people who have been in that last moments of passing from life into death and those who have survived and brought back to life and said i saw my family members, i saw my loved one at the top of the room, i saw my loved ones in his account matched all the accounts i had read. 90 minutes in heaven, several other nonfiction accounts. That was one of many stories and everyone in my family has had similarstories of divine outreach. Host that was written by a scientist or a doctor be five thats right. Host this isnt just joe blow. Guest and actual medical doctor. Host i wanted to ask you about the other example, i found this interesting. One of them is the winebrenners, this is a Police Officer who basically died at the hands i guess of a drunk, somebody at a bar. He was offduty and is it his daughter who had this experience after . Guest it was his sister. He left behind a daughter who was four when she passed, hes about to jerk two years old but his sister kelly said that her brother justin had always promised to take her to his first son and she passed before she had that opportunity. She was in her log cabin in ohio and she looked out on her back porch and saw this beautiful blue and black butterfly and she took a picture and send that awesome, its a blue, is a Police Officer and she went on with her day. She was in misery and the several states away, was about to shoot her first gun and someone said stop and look down on your foot and she said it was a blue and black butterfly. The same one i had seen in ohio. She proceeded to shoot the gun and stay on her foot and after she shot the gun, it stayed there and flew up to her finger and rested on her finger and she had pictures of the butterfly and all these different locations and she said its as if justin was there and found a way to stay with me and her father saw it in a different state, several states away, also at a police retreat which ive never seen a blueand black butterfly but they see it often. Then yourecount the story , megan carpenter. Do you dedicate, shes one of the people i believe you dedicate the book to. I dedicated to rachel joyce, the first victim in the columbine shooting who said she believes in god and lost her life and all my community was diagnosed with cancer and passed in high school and lost her battle with cancer for several years and her mom said the day she passed she was in the bathroom and said a prayer and he said jesus, let me know my daughter will be okay and as she prayed that prayer, a feather floated down from the ceiling and our whole community spent years collecting feathers for megan. Thats whats important to her and that feather, we dont know where it came from in the hospital but she has it and just to tell you quickly, kelly who was the girl that saw the blue and black butterfly, she said to me you know whats crazy kaylee . Whenever i tell people that story i hear stories about coins and feathers and i said you get my book already . She said i havent gotten a copy of your book yet. And all this, the men and women who lost loved ones they were spoken to through feathers and coins so its always odd, i would not call them coincidences, i would call them divine outreach. Host divine providence, theres a word for that i think. Guest divine outreach. Host there were a couple times, there was a story where shes on an airplane, gets off and comes back and theres feathers. Guest that was megans story about the feather and the wife that we talked about who collapsed in the waffle house parking lot when her son was killed. When i told her the feather story she says i cant believe you said that because i went to the bathroom and ed was on the plane, hello and then a pillow out of it and she would always hug it and keep it with her. I went to the hot bathroom, feeling bad about losing my son and seeing top the pillow was a little better so all these men and women in separate states and separate places, separate stories but the Common Thread of loss had outreach in similar ways. Host before we move on to the faith part which is the theme of the book i want to bring up kind of a theological question of this book that it raises. One time obviously but its always subtext, that is the question of whether or not god causes sickness or whatever, death. Tragedy. Because theres this bible verse that ive come that you might have life more abundantly, some people believe that god could take a bad situation and make it good but he is not the author of bad situations. Other people comfort themselves by saying this is all part ofgods plan. We may not understand it but this happen for a reason. Talk if you would about how people in this book struggle with that and id love to know where you come down on. Thats a great theological question and one that stuck to grapple with and each of the men and women in my book are honest and say they were angry at god in the wake of loss and one individual even said he would curse god because you can imagine losing a son and in his case losing a wife as well. Its a common question that they ask themselves and can copeland in particular, how he got over her anger with god, her pastor said god did not will this for your life. He did not want this to happen to you. In that moment was a moment of comfort to her and its a great question, does god allow this to happen or cause something to happen in the conclusion i come to is he doesnt want for your life, he wants him to lose her son and husband, but yes, its somethingthat he allowed to happen. Its a byproduct of free will. Evil is a byproduct of that and so is good. He allowed it to happen that it was not his will, its not what you wanted for kims life or any of these individuals life but its a byproduct of free choice. Host we would never have this discussion on a normal cable news, when youre doing political commentary though this just happens to that. Is that one of the things you like about writing a book . Absolutely. I love getting to explore these issues. I love putting a hard on a pay and seeing someones emotions sitting across the table, spending hours with them, getting a format like this to discuss it and open up in some of these big, important issues and questions that every human being grapples with getting to explore it in a book format and long format like this. Cspan has been a special opportunity. Host so one of the chapters in the book, some of the storiesthat you tell people , they lose their lives. I think its for for example but there are other examples of things that are happening out in the heartland that people are getting fed up with, maybe not quite as serious but still serious, one of the issues is the issues of religious liberty. Which is the first freedom. And there are a lot of americans who feel like they are losing their ability to talk about their faith and there was one example that its got a military aspect as well. Why dont you tell us about that one . That was interesting because you hear a lot about in the faith communities faith being under attack in the school or the workplace or i wasnt allowed to keep my bio on my desk or in one case i talk about a synagogue that wasnt allowed to openly worship in their own home and they had a lawsuit against them by a neighbor one of the places you dont think about losing your religious freedom is the military and i talked to an attorney at first liberty who did this for a living and he said if you could map out instances of religious persecution in the military, its an arch like this and youre increasingly seeing religious freedom under attack in that setting which is surprising and one of them is Master Sergeant Oscar Rodriguez who basically gave a speech and he given tons of times and what makes his speech different from the uniform flag folding speech is that hes had no issues with it, a congressman wrote him congratulatory letters and i love your speech, id love to hear it but at one base in particular he went to give this speech and he was physically removed from the room by a fellow member of the military because he maintains he was about to say the word god and the name of god and its interesting to see, its a sad thing to see because they say its the difference between the rankandfile of our military by and large are christian men and women and the gap between the leadership and those who are being appointed to the top ranks were the ones taking away those rights. Host another issuethat maybe isnt a life or death issue but is very serious is , we mentioned this briefly but liberal bias on College Campuses and academia. And really, its not just about bias, its also about free speech. And cycling you know, diverse philosophical viewpoints. And you very recently graduated from harvard law. And you had some personal experience with this as well but you talk about in thebook. I left the small town, georgetown in oxford and harvard law which were incredible opportunities for me. I think mainly as a conservative because i did encounter a definite liberal bent on these campuses both from my protectors and appears and it was advantageous to me to be able to engage another side, another argument. Host you talk about one of your professors at oxford. Guest thats right. Host im sorry to ask you to in one question, to ask you a second question but it reminds me of the way that van jones and alan combs were very kind to you, this experience of meeting a girl professor that pushed you, but i think made you a better arguer, a better commentator. Guest thats absolutely true and it is one of my favorite moments in the book and an important moment in my life was going to oxford and basically you have to read your argument or your 10 page paper out loud. One on one with a tutor thats their name for a professor and you have your argument systematically dismantled and the idea is to make you stronger and it goes to be a confrontational, aggressive, intense and my first tutorial lived up to that. I remember grass in the graphing my paper on us foreign policy, walking into this graveyard turned library and walking up this stairwell and getting to the top and encountering my professor who was a former member of the Palestinian Liberation Organization and as an israel minded western loving republican. I had my views dismantled and not because he was unfair to me because it was a view that i earnestly never considered and i remember walking away with tears in my eyes and going back in time and getting stronger and tougher because of it and that means in a nutshell what academia is about, having exchange of different viewpoints. Some liberal students never have to confront opposing viewpoints. They dont have a conservative professor dismantling their arguments and forcing them to become better arguers. Exactly, thats why i say if youre a conservative student you are advantaged by the set up in the structure but several of my liberal peers at harvard law never had the opportunity of being confronted conservative professor and i think its led to some of the far left tactics we seen on americas campuses like tearing down bill barlows signs is a conservative hero in my campus and put up conservative signs and are liberal peers couldnt take it and tore down the signs and had to be worn by the administration that free speech is important. Imagine that, harvard lawyer to be warned about free speech by a liberal administration. Randall kennedy is a civil rights icon, a harvard law professor writing in the New York Times that sometimes he thinks that my liberal classmates have their tactics overtake their message and sometimes they overstate the problems they see on campus though there even being warned by some of their liberal elders perhaps their tactics are tackling your message. Host what happened to them . When they get out of the real world,im sure democrats, but do they change or is this , or do we have to be afraid that theres going to be 10 years from now bunch of 35yearold harvard educated lawyers who dont believe in free speech or the opinion. Its a great question and when i grappled with, i think you look back to the days of the Weather Underground and some of the violent tactics used by radical young leftists and overtime, those went away and i think its a rude wakeup call for some of these individuals when they get to the workplace where you can no longer ask her in exam extension because your emotional status because of a current event which is what happened in the wake of the grand jury decision, there was a wave of Ivy League Students asking for exam extensions and some like harvard law did not acquiesce. Host you should have been gotten an extension because you are about to go on bill oreilly. I think i read that you spend eight hours in a hotel room taking an exam before going on bill oreilly to talk about guest to talk about my peers asking for exam extensions. I needed thegrand jury exemption but did not get it before that oreilly appearance. Host this is about noah patton and the flint michigan story. Theres one thing that they want people to know about flint, weve been survivors since day one. It might be down but they are not out, its a city full of lighters and despite its troubles , let floors and liquid flow from the faucets, and the waters of change transform the heart of one man noah is in turn changing hearts and minds of those around him. Just as the story ofnoahs ark, theres always a rainbow beyond the unforeseenwaters that what our lives. Obviously this is a lot of symbolism. Theres a guy named noah. Having to do with the story, having to do with water how to going through this transform noah . Guest im so glad you brought this up. The flint water crisis is so important and it was a sad moment in our political history when both parties either ignored what happened in flint michigan or parked on it as a part of the moment, it should have been a moment we came together and it wasnt and i was frustrated as a republican in that moment for sure but to me, noah and another example of government failing this community but this is an individual and several others rising to the occasion when government failed the community, it was empowering. Know what that with hurt in his life, he witnessed his mom commit suicide in frontof him. He learned in a home , his young adolescent years he literally was in a vacant home. No water, no electric and had several friends in jail, had two standoffs with police and he was honest about that. Hes honest about how hes grappled with the sins he committed and he said there was this moment when a pastor looked at him and said noah, you can overcome this and he took the poison water in flat michigan and washed noahs hands clean and know it is now an amazing man in his community, a pastor and he wants to tell our government do not give up on flint, do not give up on these broken communities and the countries because there are people who are fighters like noah who want to overcome if given a helping hand and the opportunity and noah is someone whos remaking flint michigan, a city that has been devastated not just by poison water but by half of the residents fleeing. And i know most of these people interviewed facetoface, some were via the sun, did you go outthere . Became the last moment and i asked him in the early interview, at the last moment before i turned my manuscript and he said can i tell you this and we quickly got on the phone. He was at one point dealing with possibly going to jail. I think a he felt like telling his story was important and you might even risk violating a probation or i forget the details. The story of noah, am i right . He did not vote for trump. Guest he did not, or hillary. He lost faith in everyone. Host you dont make this point in the book but it reminded me a little bit of donald trump because theres a part where it talks about how despite the things hes done in his life, he can still have a purpose now. He can still do good things now and thats something that ive heard Christian Conservative voters who are defending donald trump despite his checkered past, they said the same thing. Thats an interesting parallel i didnt think of but a true one. Noah is on the phone with me and you can hear his optimism and his hope and his great positive outlook despite the things that have happened to him. He left on the phone, he said i went from prison to preacher and hes laughing at the thought of it but we both talked about how its really not that far off of a pot and especially when you look at biblical heroes like king david literally committed adultery and killed the husband of that woman and you look at moses, and very imperfect people like paul who was involved before he became paul. These people have great sinful paths that arent necessarily moral individual that we would look to in the early stages of their life came these great heroes in the bible and i definitely see that with noah, that no path is too dire to overcome. Someone said your method is your message so youre going to serve the community, in flint michigan and maybe this background provides you a unique foray into reaching people who need help. Guest certainly, and noah said he was running a scrapyard at a facility where used cars or sometimes stolen cars come through and he said he aggregated a ton of money from that and the men in his community would say i want to be like that guy because he was well off but noah said now its incumbent on me to show them theres a better way and he started a lawn care service, hes cleaning up yards of michigan, beautifying the city and trying to bring a positive message and show those guys theres a better way out there and showing every day of his life. Host one of the things i talked about here and you write a lot about is that a lot of the chatter in class, talking heads in these stories developing or at least didnt fully appreciate these stories and you were kind of in the middle of these things so you were visiting back home in florida where youre from. You were going around certain points around the country, you were writing this. Guest not during the election. Host but you were bank going back toflorida to see trump , you dont see trump signs in manhattan but you do mention after the, i guess it was on election day at cnn, you had a couple people come up to you and give you some interesting kudos and congratulations. Guest it was so interesting because Jeffrey Gordon and i would talk about the hidden trump voter, the one he would see in pennsylvania and the one i would see in florida, not in these urban communities but on the back roads of the state and it manifested itself on that night in the green room at cnn when i was sitting there alone at 1 am, ive just gotten off talking about the president becoming president which caught everyone by surprise and as i sat alone in the green room i guy came in and said dont tell anyonebut i voted for trump. He was a cameraman and followed up by a makeup artist. It was interesting because it was a small example, and of the hidden trump voter who might not have put aside on his yard but he voted silently and made the difference in the election. Host i know you got married recently, why dont you tell us about your new husband. Guest we got married this november. It was an awesome moment, waking up at six that day and our first look was me getting an iv and he took me to Emergency Care but despite that, hes an awesome man and particularly when i talk about my struggles and having to get this procedure done and removingmy breast tissue to have a husband and companion who says youre going to be full no matter what , its an awesome thing to have a partner in life. Host and what is the future for Kayleigh Mcenany . You can be an author, i know you want to write another book, i heard that. Certainly theres political commentary. You are terrific at that. Where like this all lead . I hope to write another book and in the next one i hope to be entirely apolitical and i want to look at some of our National Tragedies and find heroes that rose to the occasion within them. These individuals in las vegas who have Amazing Stories that happened on that night and their loved ones path thatthey pass as heroes but to me, i want to write a book about the American People. Host Kayleigh Mcenany, thanks for taking the time. This year is a special project we are featuring bestselling fiction writers for our Monthly Program indepth fiction edition. We are alive with bestselling fiction author colson whitehead. Mister whiteheads novel the underground railroad was awarded the Pulitzer Prize and National Book award. His other books include the intuition us and stack harder. It is part of our 20 18th special action addition of indepth

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