Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion With Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg 20180202

Tonight. [applause] we primarily measure increasing growth not by how many people walk through the doors, but by the capacity and openness of our hearts. Our hearts have four chambers. For core practices, we are loving kindness in which we take care of each other at any and every stage of life. Your justice in which we redefine the very we of who is in this world. Walls may protect us but mostly theyre meant to come down so there can be all of us. We are prayer. We pray like our life depends on it and we live and work fiercely as if our prayers did not matter. We are moved, we are sacred texts. You dont have to be a member to join us, just calm. Come during the week, come on a sunday are join us for meditation for study, come have a conversation in a cup coffee. You came here tonight for Justice Ginsburg is a hero. An absolute hero. [applause] we cannot think of someone to be with us at this particular time, its a dark moment in our country. She represents everything we want to be fighting for. For those that are marginalize, for a womans voice in the public sphere and the Justice System for equity and equality, for everything we hold dear. For the second time we welcome her to and we relinquish this out of total love and deep respect for who she is what she brings into the world. One introduce kathleen who sits on the board who herself is a remarkable human being an incredible lawyer who has spent fighting for equity and womens rights for over 30 years. Welcome. Thank you. I want to support about the forward and what 120 years of progressive Workplace Fairness advocating journalism the forward has been for the last 120 years and counting. It is the mainstay of the progressive jewish community. Were here to celebrate that. Give a shout out to rachel. Please stand up. I chose the publisher of the forward, jane is the editor. This is a woman led organization. If youve ever heard argument the United States Supreme Court you know that too is a woman led organization. I like to ask ruth and jane to come out before i say a few words about them. [applause] [applause] [applause] thank you so much. Please be seated. I could say a lot about ruth bader ginsburg. I had a lot of alternative plans. Yesterday, there is a prayer for ruth publish. Did you happen to read it . It was written by abby, its very short. At a time as disquieting as this, when many feel deflated, shaken, worried for the future, when we almost cant remember what its like to go a day without namecalling and lives, harshness or callousness, when were nostalgic for the years of complete sentences, dignified state then ship and ask of empathy we still look to you ruth bader ginsburg, the girl turned legendary. Fighter for the powerless and runs. May go from strength to strength because you have been hours. May the many more years because you make the word brighter, fair, kinder. Because we need you. You helped us remain cleared not just on the foundational principles of the nation but on our jewish mandate to welcome the stranger and never stand idly by. The hebrew words in your office wall read justice, justice, shall their pursuit. You have and will keep trying, god bless ruth bader ginsburg. [applause] welcome jane eisner, the intrepid editor of the forward, my friend, my icon and im happy to welcome you both. [applause] thank you to everyone coming here to those watching this on facebook, we welcome me. Its a thrilling pleasure for me. On behalf of my collects to participate in this important event. We have asked readers to send us their questions for Justice Ginsburg. The responses been overwhelming. We heard from readers across the country and from overseas as well. Tonight i will quote from some of these in our conversation because theyre brilliant and funny and a powerful reflection of how interested americans are in the United States Supreme Court especially in this Supreme Court justice. Justice ginsburg has asked we not discuss issues that are before the court or may be before the court. We are respecting the. Happily there are many other topics to talk about. Many readers are interested in your jewish life and identity. And how it shaped your judicial career and outlook. As we sit in the sanctuary it seems like a good place to. You grew up in brooklyn. [applause] family not about but very identified. You just jen described your mother lighting candles on friday nights. I heard how you enjoyed celebrating passover with your family youre right that the four questions were the best part. Im wondering why . A child is asking about this evening in celebration why is passover night different from all other nights, its the child asking the question and the rest is devoted to answering it. Think its just one of many illustrations of how jews how they are learning want children to be welleducated. A couple of years ago with the rabbi you wrote about the heroic visionary women in the passover story. Did you notice all of that when youre a girl . Or is that something that emerged later in life for you, the recognition of the role of women . Was the prime mover. Growing up i may have known about miriam but i did not know about the midwives were pharaohs daughter, but there were no women in it. Thats true. Save work to make a difference in that regard. I understand that was something you are aware of as a girl, your limitations. The boys were having bar mitzvahs and girls cannot and your mother had a strict orthodox upbringing. How did that experience of being a girl at a time when girls and women had little or no role in religious life, how did that affect you . Did it inspire you or something you wanted to change . I wanted to have a big party get all those presents. I grew up with a cousin we lived in the same household. We were like twins. He had this great party. I was very jealous. Later on i read that you trace the jewish presence on the Supreme Court beginning not with Justice Louis brandeis, but actually with benjamin who is the first jew to be offered a seat on the United States Supreme Court but declined. In fact, he became leader of the confederacy. Why do start there and thinking about the jewish presence on the court . I dont think of him as presence on the court. Some are very good and some are not so good. Benjamin was very interesting character. He did have an Orthodox Jewish upbringing but he married out of the faith. His story is intriguing. He rose to the top of his ranks in the confederacy. The reason he turned on the Supreme Court appointment was that he had just been chosen by the Louisiana Legislature to be the senator. That was before the 17th amendment. Antisemitism by others gave a few to him. Its the way he was treated among the others. They do have some ddelta benjamin and many a museum. Have you seen it . Key wondered how it has affected your lifes work as a boy here, feminist and Supreme Court justice became to know morwe came to knowmore and mores happening to the. Since of being a member of the minority grouaminority group itd somehow survived but the idea my father came from russia when he was 13. My mother was the first person born in the usa born four months after and both of them are then anything else. You mentioned growing up in the shadow of world war ii and the holocaust and im wondering if that shaped your views of human rights and the human rights law. It its certainly a large part of it. You probably know that it was the beginning of the end of apartheid in america. We were fighting a war against the racism enough water to a speech [inaudible] one of the major voices to the brown v. Board of education. What they faced coming back to the states after they fought and then came back to the. How has it accommodated through its tradition and has that changed while youve been there . The Supreme Court. Every year they would get half a dozen or more complaints from the Orthodox Jews and say we are so proud of our membership in this theme court. Its in the year of our lord. The cycle was to complete and they would have just been a year then there were complaints. We liked what it said about the independence of the United States. Just the year 2018 with the independence of the United States speak [inaudible] after today for the sitting day and the first response. Its not very convincing for the chief. They had worked so hard on this case do you want to take away from the opportunity to present their case and require them to have a substitute. [applause] its had a really interesting question. Hyou once described an opinion y the israeli justice that forbids torture even in what they call the ticking time bomb situation. It had a tremendous persuasive value so im wondering as an American Jewish insurer breast, do you feel any special affinity with the look of the israeli Supreme Court . I do feel a special affinity for the work of one of the most brilliant jurists in our time. As you know they dont have a constitution that they have a wealth of law to draw, they have the ottoman empire, the heritage from the United Kingdom and jewish law. They need to know where the hell is going off to extract that information and a very eloquent judgment. To be so overwhelmed i often turn to the more and more we come to resemble our enemies in our disrespect. [applause] your beloved mother was struck in with cancer during your first year in high school. Wanted you to tell us a little bit about that. She said i should be a lady and i h bet she didnt mean fancy dresses that your emotions and. In her other message was to be independent. I suppose she hoped that one day i would meet and marry prince charming and emphasized the importance of being able to defend for myself. An and you did marry your prince charming, your longtime partner but early on in your marriage he was very sick with cancer and you yourself have battled it twice. How do you keep going under such challenging circumstances and where do you draw your strength . When marty had testicular cancer was no chemotherapy and e was massive surgery. When she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, that was her attitude, i will live and she was still very much alive. I would like to turn that to your long and admiral championing of gender equality. I know that you have discussed those early cases in the publicc before, but i wonder if you might share with our audience tonight one of your favorite cases that you think had the best impachave thebest impact ew field. Before i answer that question, there wasnt too much to inspire young women in my days. There was a young woman barely 15 when she wrote it. As i said, these are the words of a young woman just turning 15. One of the questions that bothered me is why women have been and still are so inferior to men. Its easier to say it is unfair. I would like to know the reason for this great injustice. Because of the greater physical strength its been to earn a living and do as they please until recently they silently went along wit with us with is stupid. [laughter] the longer it is kept up the more it becomes. Fortunately, education, work and progress have opened up womens eyes. In many countries they have been granted equal rights, many people mainly women now realize how long it was to tolerate this state of affairs for so long. It was one of the last entries made in the diary. I think the audience does born in the netherlands in 1929 and died in 1945 while in prison just three months short of her 16th birthday. Isnt that amazing that it really is. We overlook that access of her writing in her diary. Its like asking me which of my four children and two stepgrandchildren to illustrate that genderbased discriminati discrimination. She had a healthy pregnancy and tossed into the ninth month. At the hospital the doctor came out and told steven you have a healthy baby boy but your wife died of an embolism and decided at that moment he would personally care for this and didnt and wouldnt work full fulltime until he was in school fulltime. He heard about something called child care benefits. Once they went above that amount, the benefits was reduced dollar for dollar. But he thought he was told by his Social Security office these are mothers benefits and are not available to authors. He wrote a letter to the editor at the new jersey newspaper and said i hear a lot these days about this, let me tell you my story and besides what happened it is a Social Security office. Does Gloria Steinem know about this . [laughter] i was teaching at rutgers at the time and they called in the context the affiliate of the community and that is how his case began. The court issued a unanimous suggestion in the russia now, so most of it went by justice brennan. They paid the same Social Security taxes that they didnt use the same benefits and then a few of them thought this is discrimination. The law tells them you have no choice, you have to be a fulltime girder and hire a substitute. It is when it is male so everybody was hurt by this genderbased discrimination. Such a lovely metaphor. [inaudible] we will get one for Justice Ginsburg. I feel like there is a lovely metaphor and the answers that show gender a quality is for women and children did you see it that way . Around at that time you delivered support for the equal rights amendment which act at tt time passed both houses of congress but never ratified by enough states to become part of the constitution. Now im just wondering do we need an era now especially in this meet to movement . The constitution is powerfully hard to amend. After congress it takes three quarters of the state to ratify and if so three states short of a talented get you to the point that you would be if there were an equal rights amendment and then i take out o my pocket constitution and say i have three granddaughters. They point to the First Amendment guarantee for the speech. I would like them to see in the constitution that statement of equal citizenship stature and i would like to see that as a basic tenet of the system. Every constitution and the world returned since the year 1950 has an equal the length of the equal rights amendment statement that equal dignity and rights. In order to form a more Perfect Union, and i think part of becoming, a very large part of becoming a more Perfect Union is to embrace more and more people. I would not have been there. Half the population wouldnt have been there. Native americans were not a part of the constituency. I think the genius of the constitution is the concept that has become ever more invasive so i would like to see the equal rights amendment in the constitution. [applause] and we are still hopeful that there is some movement to provide the amendment. You have spoken recently about your own need to movement that happened two years ago and one of the readers wondered whether you still experience this today. Not that kind of sexism. Im going to be a besides. [laughter] i think most of the ex would be the legislature changing. It was a combination between the courts and the legislature. My best example of that is when i was growing up i never saw a woman in the symphony orchestra. The wellknown music critic for the times were then he could tell whether it was a woman playing or a man one day they decided to put into the test so they sat him down and blindfolded them and had a progression of Young Artists cut out before the sudden they came out with the best idea lets draw the curtain so that the judges of the competition would not see the people who were auditioning. And with that, almost overnight it was changed in the composition of the symphony orchestras. A young violinist said you left out something. You left out the [inaudible] unfortunately we cant replicate this. There is a wonderful volume which he explains the first one and the second was in power but he starts with a story of coming down to where they are and you are not supposed to speak in public, women to speak in publ public. When i would Say Something and it was silent and then the discussion went on and maybe ten or 15 minutes later a man would say just what i have said. There was a tendency to tune out when a woman was speaking because you couldnt expect her to say anything worthwhile. This condition might be continuing. For the Supreme Court justices that would be you and you were interrupted three times more often than your male colleagues. This is an academic study. Does that ring true to you and does it mean anything . I am glad that report came out because i think things will change and we will be more conscious. It was a competition to see who could ask the most questions. [laughter] one day in the argument session Justice Oconnor was asking a question and then i jumped in and she said wait a minute, im not finished. The next day in a rude interruption manner at lunch and immediately after they said dont worry about it at all, they do it to each other all the time so that was my reaction to the reporter watch the story said shes right. And the women came to my rescue from georgetown, a great expert and tried to explain how was it that i came to israel. A fast talking jewish girl most people didnt know the two of us know this illustration they do the fast talking. So many of their readers, men and especially when men are really hungry for your advice. Here is becky from Raleigh North Carolina working as a paralegal for only a few months and has already faced discrimination. She wants to pursue her dream of a legal career. First being alone is hard to [inaudible] [laughter] it was to be kind of a Kindergarten Teacher to explain to the judges that there was such a thing as genderbased discrimination. It was a big difference between their understanding of Racial Discrimination and gender discrimination. Between men and women it always operates in the favor. For a very good husband and a very good father to say he is a discriminator it takes a while for them to see that there is such a thing because every time the Supreme Court meet up with the genderbased classification it rationalizes it. They mustnt be distracted from their work to home and family life. And something to say about womens citizenship and rights and one obligation is to participate in the Justice System. Men are obliged to serve both women are expendable and the notion one typical law passed by the state of michigan in the 1940s a woman couldnt serve as a bartender unless her husband or father owned the establishment. A mother owned a tavern and her daughter was the bartender. The Supreme Court dispatch that in legislation was put into protects the woman from unsavory places that remind there was no restriction on the woman being a barmaid that. The drinks to the table but couldnt stand behind the bar. It took a while for the judges to understand this pedestal that women are supposed to stand on more often then not turns out to be a cage. So that was our mission to get the judges to understand. The justice it seems you have had over the years into the most unusual relationship is delayed Justice Antonin Scalia and therethismany people but marvee fact that two of you disagreed so vehemently and get that had such a warm relationship. Some of the readers asked about this. Public policy students say they cant talk to their peers whose views differ from their own. Another said its hard to talk to family membe Family Member od stays and friends dont agree with them so im wondering how did you do this . The first time i met him he was teaching at the university of chicago and attended a lecture she gave and i disagreed with a lot of what he said that i was totally captivated by the way he said it. We became buddies on the dc circuit and he would whisper something to me or totally cracked me up. There were similar neighborhoods where people were either irish or italian or jewish. Whatever children were around came. In fact there is an opera called scalia ginsburg. It starts out with the typical style that goes like this. The justices are blind. How can they possibly spout this and say absolutely nothing about it. And i respond hes searching for these solutions. Scalia gets locked up in this dissent and has to go through a certain test to get out a soul i saw a character left over and he said why would you want to help him, he is your enemy. Yet we are different but its in the way that we approach a loved one in the reverence for the constitution or institution we serve. We recently had excerpts of the library of congress. Sometimes i would speak to the justice in private and state this so overthetop what you have written. For metadata you would be more persuasive. The problem was the latin teacher at Brooklyn College so if i made a grammatical error, he would let me know so that i wouldnt be embarrassed if the mistake i made. Do you think there are lessons in your friendship now in such a polarized time people are thirsty for role models that are able to transcend the philosophical or judicial differences is there any lesson. This should be the number one priority and i would say the Supreme Court is the most collegial place ive ever worked beforon any law faculty at dc circuit. We all respect and in most cases genuinely like each other. [laughter] is a second will send a pointy and he was an out and out. When they speak, they would leave the room. Did any one object or say that this is wrong . In time he overcame his difficulty. I understand he was much more socially gregarious venue where in the many years. Hes a great cook and does it seem that since passing the public persona has grown and i wondered if that is a coincidence or if there is a connection. He had his first year of law school so when we went back he was in his second year and i was in my first. I went to a School Cornell university was a ratio and was the idea place to. Does he care that i have a brain and that meant a i favor interested at all and its not as if said they were very bright women they wouldve played him a. I think that the idea wanted to spend the rest of my life shes got to be something special. Its rather hard to imagine you playing down. I have to say that. Is it strange to see your face on food banks . [laughter] this is all the creation of a second year law student and it started when they decided shrewdly a case of the act of 1965. She would do something for a her more positive so they created this dot started with my dissent in Shelby County and then she thought about the proper name someone suggested a fellow brooklynite. [applause] they didnt know that we ha have that important thing in common and its just taken off from their. In march i will be 85 and Everyone Wants to take my picture. [laughter] kate mckenna in plac and place n saturday night live and Felicity Jones has even a new feature film, documentary since it debuted last week at sundance. How does it feel to see your cell phone screen . Ive seen the documentary. Its really good. My personal trainer is in it, the filmmakers spent an hour with the two of us. The one was Felicity Jones. [inaudible] in. It would be probably at the end of 2018. The script was written by my nephew, the son of martis sister who based it on the case that he had argued together. I asked why they picked the case and they said they wanted it to be as much about a marriage as it was about the legal case. Its for the commissioner of internal revenue. This was the man who took good care of his mother though she was 93. The deduction is available to any woman or widowed or divorced man. They chose the deduction and he filed his own case in the tax. He got his own brief. I woul would have gotten this deduction. What sense does this make think it is something to the effect that is begging a Constitutional Army that everyone knows it is riddled with opportunities. We took the case to the tenth circuit in denver and they decided the Case Congress changed the law perspective late and that was the interplay between the court and the legislature. Nevertheless, the solicitor general asked the Supreme Court to explain even though it was over the tenth Circuit Division cast a cloud on the unconstitutionality over dozens of federal statutes with every provision in the u. S. Code that differentiated on the basis. Icame from the department of defense but it was a bonanza there it was with the provisions supposed to case that is at the center of. So many democratic norms seem to be unresolved now, undermined. The media, the judiciary. Im just wondering if you think there is a moment when justices should respond. The judiciary is the reactive branch of government it doesnt generate controversy that comes before it in its reactive to whats out there. They do their best to put them out. If people ask me the opinion that judges to depend on the bar to explain the importance of the judiciary. It is the home of the federal judiciary. Are there any decisions you regret . They said you are going to work on every case and every opinion but when it is over and done, dont look back and dont waste your time worrying about whats done. Go on to the next case and give it your all. Were you able to follow that . Over the years theres been a suggestion that the lifetime tenure of the justices be replaced with several presidencies and it could mean older churches could be selected and it could be a graceful way to perhaps leave the bench and i just wonder what you think of this idea i will admit most have a compulsory retirement age. Some have a fixed nonrenewable term and im grateful to the Founding Fathers that are writing it to the constitution. I had a painting on loan from the museum of american art by Joseph Albert and he took it away from me for a traveling show about eight years later he stepped down over 23 years. Im the longestserving justice and the so i cant use that but as long as i can do the job, i will be here. [applause] we are almost out of time. There is one question i must ask you if i can take a personal privilege here and the personal privilege of asking president obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu what is your favorite flavor of bagels . [laughter] [inaudible] i would like to quote from this in the closing it comes from Carly Rae Brown at evansville indiana. Her girl scout troop was asked to hold up signs about what they wanted to see a [inaudible] [laughter] heres the question she says what can i do now as a 9yearold to make a change should, how can i follow in your footsteps . May i say first aspiring to be a judge it is a wonderful thing. I have a granddaughter who is now a lawyer and when she was eight i was being filmed for a show and my granddaughter was with me and wanted to be in the film. What would you like to be when you grow up into this and then 8yearold said i would like to be president of the United States of the world. [laughter] its the difference between the aspirations that young women can have today and what the they han the not so good old days. She should take her school work very seriously as the job announced a and then do things in your Community Whether it is assisting in getting food to the Homeless People or if you care about the environment. She asked me to ask you to please stay on the Supreme Court until she can take your spot. [applause] i think there are people in the room who might agree. I just want to thank you all this has been an amazing evening. Personal thing us to my dear friend and wonderful supporter for the lovely introduction and all you did to help this happen. With our president and the rest of the National Board many of whom here to the readers and supporters without your generous support, we couldnt do what we do and for those of you that came here tonight and all of those that are watching on facebook online thank you so much for being part of this wonderful conversation and of course our greatest thanks to Justice Ginsburg. [applause] the remaining piece until justice has exited the building and the security personnel will then open the doors behind you. This is a perfect time to talk about all of the Amazing Things so thank you so much. [applause] the university of arkansas and the Clinton House museum the first house of bill and Hillary Clinton with our Cable Partners we will explore the literary life and history on book tv we will visit the special collection at the university of arkansas libraries where we will hear about the 30 year political career in the senate. This is our Democratic Leaders of course meeting with the future republican president george h. W. Bush. We will toward the center for the oral individual history as they talk about the history of the ozarks and stereotypes people face living in the regi region. It is a mostly rural and poor face those images and stereotypes they are part of our story. The foundation in washington, d. C. The chief of Legal Operations chief richardson