Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion With Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg 20180202

[inaudible] it evening. Welcome. My name is rabbi lauren, we are thrilled to have you here tonight. [applause] we primarily measure our increasing growth not by how many people walked through the doors, the by the capacity and openness of our hearts. Our hearts has four chambers. For practices that obligate us. We are loving kindness in which we take care of each other at every stage in life. We are justice in which were obligated to redefine the we of who is in this world. These walls may protect us but mostly theyre meant to come down so there are all of us. We are prayer. We pray like our life depends on it and we work first fiercely is of our prayers do not matter. We are sacred text, we never stop going to the depths of it wisdom that continues to and the middle. You dont have to be a member to join us. Just come. Join us for meditation and prayer, come and have a conversation and coffee. You came here tonight for Justice Ginsburg is a here, an absolute hero. [applause] i cannot think of someone to be with us at this particular time were experiencing in our country. It is a dark moment. She represents everything we want to be fighting for. For those that are marginalized, for a womans voice and the public of the Justice System for equity it any quality. For everything that we hold dear. For the second time, its an embarrassment of riches. For the second time we welcome her. We relinquish it out of love and deep respect of who she is and what she brings into the world. I want to introduce kathleen who sits on the board who herself is a remarkable human being, an incredible lawyer who has been fighting for equity and womens rights for over 30 years. Welcome. [applause] i would like i guess you have been welcomed, i just want to say word about the forward what 120 years of fearless, progressive Workplace Fairness advocating journalism has been for the last 120 years and counting. The forward is a mainstay of the progressive jewish community. We are here to celebrate that. Want to give a shout out to rachel can you stand up for a minute . [applause] rachel was the publisher of the forwarder. The head of the it is for it is a woman. Its a woman led organization. [applause] if youve ever heard an argument in the United States Supreme Court you know that too is a woman led organization. Id like to ask ruth and jane to come out before i say a few words about them. [applause] [applause] [applause] thank you so much, but please be seated. I could say an awful lot about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Ive had a lot of alternative plans, but yesterday, there was a prayer for ruth published. Did you read it . Was written by abby. Its very short and i would like to read it. At a time as disquieting as this, when so many of us feel deflated, shaken, worried for the future, when we almost cant remember what its like to go a day without namecalling, without lies, harshness or callousness. When we are nostalgic for those years of complete sentences, dignified statesmanship and acts of empathy, we still look to you Ruth Bader Ginsburg, yeshiva girl turned legendary justice, fighter for the powerless and runs. May go from strength to strength because you have been hours. May you live many more years because you make the world brighter, fair, kinder, because, we need to. If helped us remain clear not just on the foundational principles but on our jewish mandate to welcome the stranger never stand idly by. The hebrew words in your office wall read, Justice Justice shall now pursue. And you are certainly a justice who is pursued. You have and will keep trying, god bless Ruth Bader Ginsburg. [applause] and welcome jane eisner, the editor of the forward, my friend, my icon. Im happy to welcome both of you. [applause] thank you to everyone coming here, to those of you watching on facebook, we welcome you. Its a thrill and a pleasure for me on behalf of my colleagues to participate in such an important event. In the past few weeks weve asked readers to send us their questions for Justice Ginsburg. The responses been overwhelming. We heard from readers across the country and overseas as well. Tonight i will quote from some of these in our conversation because they are brilliant and funny and a powerful reflection of how interested americans are in the United States Supreme Court and especially in this Supreme Court justice. Justice ginsburg has asked that we not discuss issues that are before the court or may be before the court. We are respecting that. Happily there so many other topics to talk about. Justice ginsburg, many readers of ours are interested in your jewish life and identity. And how it shaped your judicial career in outlook. As we sit in the sanctuary seems like a good place to start. You grew up in brookland. [applause] family not devout but very identified. You described your own mother lighting candles on friday nights and i have heard how you enjoyed celebrating passover with your family he said the four questions were the best part of im wondering why. The youngest child was asking about this evening and the celebration. The past why is passover night different from all of her third nights. The child asking a question and the rest are answering the childs question. Just one of many illustrations of how jews are learning and want children to be welleducated. A few years ago with the rabbi you wrote about the heroic and visionary women in the passover story. Did you notice that when you were a girl . Where is that what emerged later in life for you . The recognition of the role of women . I think growing up i might have been known about mary and but i didnt know about the midwives and fares daughter, but there were no women in it. That is true and so, view worked to make a difference in that regard. I understand that that was something you were aware of as a girl. The boys were having bar mitzvahs and girls could not. Your mother had very strict orthodox upbringing. How did that experience of being a girl at a time when girls and women had little or no role in religious life, how did that affect you. Did that inspire you or was it something you wanted to change . Of course i wanted to change it. We lived in the same household, two sisters mary two brothers and we were like twins. He had this great party at his bar mitzvah. And i was very jealous. [laughter] later on in life i read that you trace the jewish presence on the Supreme Court beginning not with justice rand and lewis but with Judah Benjamin who was the first jew to be offered a seat in the United States Supreme Court. But who decline. Fact he became the leader of the confederacy. Why do you start there and thinking about the jewish presence on the court . I dont think of him as president on the court. They come in all sizes and shapes some are very good and some are not so good. Benjamin is an interesting character. Did have a jewish upbringing but he married and his story is intriguing. He rose to the top of the ranks in the confederacy. The reason he turned on the Supreme Court appointment is he had just been chosen by the louisiana legislator to be the senator. So senators were chosen by the state legislature and not by direct vote. He thought all Things Considered it was a better job for him. He may have envisioned that if he was on the court it wouldve been too many years before he had to resign. So, although he was a leader of the confederacy, he was a slaveholder, he was subject to antisemitism by others high in the ranks of the confederacy. They referred to him as judas and i know we ran a story about confederate monuments because theres so much controversy but there is no monument to him even though he was leader of the confederacy. It may be because of what you said the way he was treated. Did you have heavy seen it . Yes we have a question from michael, reader in georgia. He wondered how your jewishness has affected your lifes work as a lawyer, a law professor of feminist and Supreme Court justice. Perhaps i should start by saying i grew up in the shadow of world war ii and we came to know more and more of what was happening to the jews in europe. The sense of being an outsider, being one of the people who have suffered oppression for no sensible reason is part of being a minority at makes you more empathetic to other people who were not insiders, i would say that, and the love of learning, the sense of being a Minority Group that somehow has survived generations and generations. But i can think of mild family. My family came to russia when he was 13. Never went to school, my mother was the first person in her large family born in the usa. She was born four months after her mother arrived here. So she was conceived in the old world and born in the new world. In both of them, more than anything wanted me to have a good education. Number one on their list of what i should have. You mentioned growing up in the shadow of world war ii and the holocaust. Im wondering if that shaped your views of human rights and human rights law . Its certainly a large part of it. I think you probably know that the holocaust was the beginning of the end of apartheid in america, we were fighting a war against racism in our own troops were separated by waste. So when we are fighting a war against racism how long with segregation and our own country persist . So i consider world war ii one of the major propelling forces the brown the board of educati education. So you see a connection between that and then why many of those africanamerican soldiers faced coming back to the states after they fought and came back as essentially secondclass citizens. You feel secure now as a jew, i sense. The beautiful poem we heard referenced the artwork that is on the walls of your chamber. Im wondering in your time on the court, how has that accommodated jewish tradition . Has that change since you have been there . There had not been the jewish for some years, the clerk of the Supreme Court came to see me very early on in my tenure in a set im glad youre here because you can help me with the problem. The Supreme Court admits and every year they would get half a dozen or more complaints from Orthodox Jews who say were so proud of our membership in the Supreme Court but we cannot frame our certificate and put it on the wall because it says in the year of our lord should so, i spoke to the chief about this. He said we will take it up in conference. In one of my colleagues whose name i will not discuss said if this was good enough for brandeis and is good enough even for goldberg and before he got there i said and good enough for ginsberg. [applause] say centerright the Orthodox Jews then they welcomed we liked when it set on the certificate of the independence of the United States. So please keep that on our certificate. Now if you want to certificate you have no choice you can have just the year 2018 in the year of our lord or the independence of the United States, this is the way should be. Its your choice what you wanted to be. [applause] the next usually they come out. [inaudible] so Justice Breyer and i asked the chief if the court could defer the sitting day. In the First Response was that we can on good friday, nobody complains about that. Then the argument. Very convincing to the chief was that inevitably and in session there will be jewish lawyers and you want to put them they have worked so hard on this case, do you want to take away from them the opportunity to present their case and require them to have a substitute. That resonated and so now we dont set on high holy days. [applause] one of our readers from cambridge, massachusetts had an interesting question. He noted that you once described an opinion by israeli justice that for bid torture even what they call the ticking time bomb situation. He said that opinion had tremendous persuasive value, im wondering as an American Jewish jurors, juice feel any affinity worth the work of the israeli Supreme Court . I feel affinity to the work of one of the most brilliant jurists of our time. As you know, israel does not have a constitution, they have five basic laws in the israeli Supreme Court has a wealth to drawn, they have Ottoman Empire law, they have the heritage from the United Kingdom they have jewish law, the case that you mention, the ticking bomb case presented to the israeli Supreme Court this question, the police have apprehended a suspect they believe to know when and where a bomb is going off. Can we have extreme means, to extract that information . In a very eloquent judgment written by then president of the israeli Supreme Court the answer was clear, torture never in the opinion explained that there is no greater gift we can give to our enemy then to become so overwhelmed by her concern for security that more and more we come to resemble our enemy and our disrespect for human rights. [applause] wonder if we can turn to personal history for moment. Your sister and only sibling died when she was six in your lesson two years old. Your mother was stricken with cancer during your first year of high school. And sadly died two days before graduation. How did this affect your sense of wanting to support women and girls and in particular, i understand how much of an inspiration your mother was. Can you tell us a little bit about that . My mother is a hugely intelligent woman, she emphasized two things, one was that i should be a lady, and by that she did not mean fancy dress. She meant be in control of your emotions and dont wait to remorse, to megabyte, and her other message was, be independent. I suppose she hope that someday i would meet and marry prince charming, nevertheless she emphasized the importance of being able to fend for myself. And you did marry her prince charming, right . Marty ginsberg your long time partner. But early in your marriage there is more adversity. He was released sick with cancer. You have battled it twice and as a reader ask, how do you keep going under such challenging circumstances . Where do you draw your strength . I think the hardest time is when marty had testicular cancer. There was no chemotherapy, and daily radiation. But, we got through each day and were thankful that we had it. We never thought anything other than that he would live as he did and i was inspired when i had pancreatic cancer by and when she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer that was her attitude, i will live. She still very much a live. Thats amazing. If i could turn to your long and admirable champ in a no gender equality, you had discuss early cases in the public before, i wonder if you might share with our audience tonight one of your favorite cases, one think that one thing you feel has a good impact. Before answer that question, i brought along was not too much to inspire young woman in my days, theres nancy drew that was just about it. But i read something by very young woman she is barely 15 when she wrote it. If i can find it here i like to read it through. So as i said these are the words of a young woman just turning 15. One of the many questions that is often bothered me is why women have been, and still are thought to be so inferior to men. Its easy to say its unfair, but thats not good enough for me. I like to know the reason for this great injustice. Education, work and progress have opened womens eyes. Mean country grantedded equal rights. Many people, mainly women, but also men, now realize how wrong it was to tolerate this state of affairs. For so long. The letter is signed,ous anne m. Frank. One of the last entries made in her diary. I think this audience knows she was born in the netherlands in 1929, and she died in 1945, while in prison. Three months short of her 16th 16th birthday. Amazing that a child would write such a thing. Host it really is. Im so glad you brought that up. I think we overlook that aspect of her writing and her diary. Wow. Thank you. Well, a lot of guest you asked about the gender discrimination. To pick a favorite is a little like asking me which of my four grandchildren and which stepgrandchildren [laughter] but i think it illustrates the arbitrariness of gender genderbased christmas. Steven wisenfelds story, he was married to a woman who taught in a public high school. She earned a little more money than he did. shed a a healthy pregnancy. She taught into the ninth month. At the hospital, the doctor came out and told steven, you have a healthy baby boy but your wife died of an embolism. And steven decided at that moment that he would personally care for his infant, that he would not work fulltime until the child was in school fulltime. So he heard about something called child in care benefits. That Social Security afforded. He went down to the local Social Security office and he said, id like to apply for child in care benefits. The benefits were arranged so that you could earn up to a certain amount. And still get the benefits. Once you went above that amount, your benefit was reduced dollarfordollar. But steven thought thought that with the Social Security benefits and his parttime earnings he could just about make it. He was told by an attendant at the Social Security office, these are mothers benefits and not available to fathers. So in the early 70s, you know. And steven wisenfeld writes a letter to the editor of his local edison, new jersey, newspaper. Goes like this i hear a lot these days before equipments lib. Let me tell you womens lib. Let me tell you my story her recruits was happened at the Social Security office and his side line was, does glory stein am know about this . I was teaching at rutgers at the time, a woman who taught on the faculty lived in the same town, read the letter, called stephen and suggested he contact the new jersey affiliate of the American Civil Liberties union and that is how his case began. The court issued a unanimous judgment but divided three ways in the rationale. So most of them, led by Justice Brennan, said, this is typical case of the discrimination women encountered. Paula wisenfeld paid the same Social Security taxes as map would pay, but her taxes didnt net her family the same benefits that a mans did. And then a few of them thought, this is discrimination against male as a parent, because the law tells him you have in choice. You have to be a fulltime earner. You have to hire a substitute to take care of your child. And then one, who later became my chief, then justice rhenquist, is totally arbitrary from the point of view of the baby. Why should the baby have the opportunity for care of a sole surviving parent when the parent who died is male but not when she is female. So, everybody was hurt by this arbitrary gender based discrimination, the woman who is the wageerner, the male as parent, and the baby. Host theres a lovely metaphor in that, actually, because it seems that host hello. Guest we need technical assistance. Host theres a lovely metaphor in that in that it sort of explains guest is it coming across . No. Can barely hear anything. Host okay . Yes, now . Yes. Host well get one for Justice Ginsburg if we need to. I feel like theres a lovely metaphor in that little try Um Fraternity of answers in that it shows that gender equality is actually for men and for women and for children. Did you see it that way . Guest in very much so. Thats how we argued it. Host wow. Host in 1937 how delivered a fullthroated support for the equal right amendment which passed boths hows of congress but never ratified by enough states to become part of the constitution. Im just wondering, do we need an e. R. A. Now, especially in this me, too moment . Guest i should say that our constitution is powerfully hard to amendment. After congress it takes threequarters of the states to ratify, and the e. R. A. Fell three states short. People asked me questions like the one you asked havent womenned progressed under the equal protection clause to get you to the point where you would be if there were on equal rights amendment . And my answer is, perhaps, but then i take out my pocket constitution and say, i have three granddaughters. I can fill this constitution on fundamental instrument of government and point to the first amendment, guaranteeing freedom of speech, press, religion. I would like them to see in the constitution a statement that men and women are persons of equal citizenship stature. Id like to see that as a basic tenet of our system. Every constitution in the world, written since the year 1950, has an equivalent of an equal rights amendment, a statement that men and women are persons, equal in dignity and in rights. Our constitution starts out, we, the people, in order to form a more Perfect Union. And i think part of becoming very larger part of becoming a more Perfect Union is to embrace more and more people. Think how it was in the beginning in 1787 when the original constitution was written. Who are we, the sometime would not have been there. Half the population would not have been there. The people who are held in im bondage, native americans were not part of the political constituency. But over well, well over two centuries, i think the genius of the constitution is that this concept of wow be the people has become evermore embracing. And so i would like to see an equal rights amendment in our constitution so that [applause] and im still hopeful theres some movement in congress to revive the amendment. Host you have spoken recently about your own me, too moment which happened years ago, and one of our readers wondered whether you still experience sexism today. Guest not that kind of sexism. Im soon going to be 85. But is there lingering bias . I think in decade of the 70s most of the expressive gender based classification were gone. That combination of legislatures changing, courts issue ago decisions. It was a conversation between the courts and the legislature to accomplish that change, getting rid of almost all of the explicit genderbased lines. What is left is what has been called unconscious bias. My best example of that is the simple simple phony orchestra the simphone any orchestra. I never saw a woman in the simphone any orchestra except a harpist. A critic for the New York Times swore he could tell whether its a woman playing or a man the violin. One day they blindfold him and had a progression of Young Artists come out and perform. And he was stumped. So, then someone came up with the brilliant idea, lets drop the curtain so that the judges of the competition would not see the people who were auditioning. And with that almost overnight there was a change in the composition of the orchestras. I it i tell the story about a young man said you lift out something. You left out we audition shoeless so they wont hear a womans heels coming. Now, unfortunately, we cant replicate his the dropped curtain in every area of endeavor. Theres a wonderful slim volume, its a two electric toward by mary beard, which she explains. The first one is about womens voicelessness, and the second is women in power. But she starts with the story of penne my coming down we the suitors and are her son telling her, mother, youre not spoked to speak in public. Women dont speak in public. Host this is in homers odyssey. Guest yes. I dont know how many time i attended meetings as a young faculty member, and where i was woo say something, and it was silence and then the discussion went on, and then maybe ten, 15 minutes later a man would say, just what i had said and there would be reaction. Good idea. There was a tendency to tune out when a woman was speaking because you cant expect her to say anything worthwhile. Host well, in fact, this condition really might be continuing. I found a study in 2015 of the womens Supreme Court justices so that we be you and justices kagan and sotomayor, that you were interrupted three times more often than your male colleagues. Now, this is an academic study. Does that ring true to you . Does it mean anything . Guest i think maybe academic study is accurate if you look at the transcripts. Im glad that report came out because i think things will change. Men will be more conscious that this is happening. On the other side i cant say that we have been so good at that, not interrupting. When Justice Scalia was alive, it was a competition between sotomayor and scalia to see who could ask the most questions. Host so many guest let me tell you another [laughter] its a very jewish story. So, one day, in argument certification Justice Oconnor was asking a question, and then i jumped in and she said, just a minute. Im not finished. Next day, in usa today headline, rude ruth interrupts sandra. At lunch immediately after apologized. She say, ruth, dont worry about it. The guy does it to each other all the time. So when i was asked my reaction to the althats what my response was. The reporter who wrote the story, watched for the next two argument sessions and said, she is right. I never noticed it when the men interrupt. Then a woman came to my rescue from georgetown, great expert expert and lange, and she came to complain how i came to interrupt san contract. Just at Sandra Day Oconnor is from a ranch on the border between new mexico and arizona, laid back gal from the west, and i am a fasttalking jewish girl from new york. Well, people know the two of us, know that sandra got out two worded for my every one, but that was the speech. Meant well but illustration of jews are fast talking, prone to interrupting each other. Host so many of our leaders, men and especially women, are really hungry for your advice. Heres becky from raleigh, north carolina. She says she has been working as a paralegal for a few months and has already faced discrimination. She wants to pursue her dream of a legal career. What advice would you give her . Guest first, find allies. Being a loner is hard but if you have other people with you, that gives you confidence and spirit. And dont respond to an insult you have experienced. I say, you sexist pig. I thought that my job in the early 70s was to be a kind of a kindergarten teacher, to explain to judges that there really was such a thing at genderbased discrimination. It was a big difference between their understanding of Racial Discrimination and gender discrimination. Racial discrimination was odious, but discrimination between men and women the myth was that always operates be ninely in the womans benignly in the womans favor. So, to tell a man who thinks he has been a very good husband and a very good father, that he is a discriminator, it takes an education for them to see there really is such a thing, because every time the Supreme Court met up with the genderbased classification before 1971, it rationalized it as a favor to women. Women were werent put on the jury rolls. Thats favorite. They mustnt be distracted from their work as the center of home and family life. Never mine that it has something to say about womens citizenship. Citizens have obligations as well as rights. One obligation is to participate in the Justice System. Men are obliged to serve, but women are expendable. Or the notion that one typical law passed by the state of michigan in the 1940s, a woman could not serve as bartender unless her husband or her father owned the establishment. The test case was a mother who owned a tavern and her daughter was her bartender. The Supreme Court dispatched that as legislation meant to protect the woman from unsavory places. Never mine there was no restriction on the woman being a bar maid, that is, the one who carries the drinks to the table where she didnt stand behind a bar, to protect her. That was in 1948 but that was the thinking, these classifications. It took awhile for judges to understand what Justice Brennan said so well, this pedestal that women are supposed to stand on, more often than not, turns out to be a cage. So, that was our mission, to get judges to understand. That there really was sun a thing as genderbased discrimination. Host so, one of the justice that it seems you have had over the years the warmest and most unusual relationship is the late justice antonin scalia. And there are many people who marvel at the fact that the two of you disagreed so vehemently and yesterday had such a warm ask deep relationship, and some of our readers asked about this. A teacher said, her Public Policy students say they cant talk to their peers whose political views differ from their own. Another reader says its so hard to talk to family members these days, and friends who dont agree with them. Im wondering hour did you and Justice Scalia do it . Guest the first time i met Justice Scalia, he was then professor schoola, teaching the university of chicago. I attended a lecture he gave. I disagreed with a lot of what he said. But i was totally captive avoid by the way he said it. He is a man was a man with a great sense of humor, and we became buddies on the d. C. Circuit where the court sits in panels of three judges, and he would whisper something to me in the middle of an oral argument that would totally crack me up it and was all i could do to avoid bursting out in hilarious rafter. Laughter. He was brought up in queens, i was brought up in brooklyn in roughly similar neighborhoods, where people were either irish or italian or jewish. We both really cared about families. We had an annual new years party where the affair would be whatever so usually it was bam by, and my husband, who is a great chef, made venison and whatever children were around came. And then we shared a love of opera. In fact, there is an opera, a comic opera, called scalia scaliaginsburg and it does a wonderful job of explaining our friendship. In fact that was scalias rage aria and it goes like this the justices are blind, how can they possibly spout this constitution says. Absolutely nothing. About this. And then i respond that he is searching for brightline solutions to problems that dont have easy answers but the great thing about how our constitution is that, like our society, it can evolve. Well, then scalia gets locked up in a dark room and is being punished for excessive dissenting, and he has to go to a certain test to get out. So, i enter through a Glass Ceiling and i tell a character left over from don giovanni who is call the commentery and he is astonished. Why would you want to help him . Hes your enemy. And then we sing a wonderful duet. I say hes not my enemy. His my dear friend. Yes, we are different. But we are one. Different in the way we approach interpretations of legal text but one in our reverence for the constitution and for the institution we serve. We recently had excerpts from the opera at the library of congress. The audience were members and staff of the house and Senate Judiciary committees. Host what did they think of it . The next day senator grassily asked if he could have a copy of my remarks. But sometimes i would speak to Justice Scalia in private and say, this is so over the top what you have written. Tone it down, youll be more persuasive. He never took that advice. [laughter] but he would come into my chambers and scalia was a great gram narayan himself father was a lattin latin teacher and his mother a grade school teach ceasefire i meat a grammatical error he would come into chambers. Never sent a memo around so that i could be embarrassed by the mistake i made. Host do you think there are lessons in your friendship now, were in such a polarized time and i think people really are thirsty for role model that are able to transcend their philosophical or political our judicial differences. Any lesson in your friendship. Guest it is our caring about the welfare of the court and anybody who is in the decisionmaking body, that should be the number one priority. Would say that the Supreme Court is the most collegial place ive ever worked. Host really. Guest on any law faculty,on the d. C. Circuit. We all respect and in most cases genuinely like each other. [laughter] host i probably cant ask you to [laughter] guest let me tell you the way it was in the not so good old days. Think of Justice Brandeis coming on the court. The second wilson appoint yeah. The first wag justice mcreynolds. Justice mcreynold was an out and out antisemite and when brandeis, brilliant man who was sometimes full of isaiah, when brandeis got up to speak in conference, mcreynolds would leave the room. Host really. Wow. Did anyone object . Did anyone say, this is wrong . Guest i guess in time he overcame his difficulties. Host wow. So, you had very warm and loving and quite Unusual Partnership with your late husband, marty. I understand that he was much more socially gregarious than you were for many years, a great cook, and a it does seem that since his passing, your public persona has grown, and i wonder if thats a coincidence or whether there is some connection there. Guest marty was my biggest booster all my life. We were married when the same month i graduated from college. Marty had his first year of law school, then taken out at the tail end of the korean war for service, so when we went back, he was in his second year, i was in my first year. And one of his classmates, someone i had known in cornell, said to me, your husband is bragging about you. He is saying youre going to be on the law review, and i look at you and you were this little twerp person. Thats the way marty was, always made me feel i was better than i thought i was. But which was extraordinary for a young man in the 50s. I went to school, cornell university, with a ratio. Four men to every woman. It was the ideal place for parents of a daughter. If you could not find your man at cornell, you were hopeless. [laughter] guest what made marty so overwhelmingly attractive to me is that he cared that i had a brain, and id not met a guy before who was interested at all. And some of my classmates at cornell, very bright women, they would play dumb. That was the way to please a man, to make him feel more important. But marty was so secure in his own ability that he never regarded me as any kind of a threat. Far from it. His idea was if i decided i wanted to spend the rest of my life with ruth, shes got to be something special. Host its rather hard to imagine you playing dumb. I have to say that. So, youre a rather famous person now. You know. And im just wondering, here you have your own swag and theres mugs and you have your tote bag, your i dissent tote bag. It is strange to see your face on mugs and tote bags . [laughter] guest this is all the creation of a second year law student at nyu. And it start when the Supreme Court decideed the Shelby County case that shot the heart out of the Voting Rights act of 1975. He was angry about what the court did. And then decided that anger is a useless emotion and would do something affirmative, something positive. So she created this tumbler that starts with my dissent in the Shelby County case, and then she thought about what is the proper name. Someone suggested a fellow brooklynite. Notorious b. I. G. People about know we have that important thing in common. Born and bred in brooklyn, new york. It and has just taken off from there. Its amazing to me. In march i will be 85. And every [laughter] everybody wants to take my picture. [applause] host so, kate mckinen plays you on saturday night live. Felicity jones is starring as you in a new feature film, documentary just debuted last week at sundance. How does it feel to see yourself on the screen . Guest i have soon the documentary. Its really good. Host its really good. Guest introduced me as in it. My personal trainer is in it. The filmmakers spent an hour in the gym with the two of us, and maybe two or three minutes of it shows up in the film. The one with Felicity Jones i should give equal billing to the person who plays marty. Marty is he is taller than marty do you think youre the same height as fell Felicity Jones . Anyway, that film is called on the basis of sex, and it will be out probably at the end of 2018. The script was written by my nephew, the son of martys sister, and he based it on a case that marty and i had argued together. It is a case that didnt go to the Supreme Court, and i asked samuel, my nephew, why he picked that case and he said because he wanted the film to be as much about a marriage as it was about the legal case. And the case is very good. Its march versus the commissioner of intern revenue. A man who took good care of his mother, though she was 93, and the Internal Revenue code had a deduction if you hired someone to be a substitute for yourself to take care of a child, an elderly parent, an infirm relative of any age. The deduction was available to any woman or to a widowed or divorced man. Chancey mars has never married. He took this deduction. It was disallowed. He filed his own case in the tax court. He filed his own brief, which was the sole of simplicity. It said, if i were a dutiful daughter i would have gotten this deduction. Im a dutiful son. What sense does this make . And i think the tax code says something to the effect of, we glean the taxpayer is making a constitutional argument. But everyone knows the Internal Revenue code is immune from constitutional attack. Its riddled with arbitrariness. Anyway, we took chancey mars case to the tenth circuit and argued it together in denver. The tenth circuit decided the case in our favor. Congress changed the law prospectively. That was the interplay between the court and the legislature. The legislature fixed it. Nevertheless, the solicitor general asked the Supreme Court review the decision, and explained that even though this was over, the tenth circuits decision cant unconstitutionality over dozens of federal statutes. See appendix e. Appendix e. Was a list of every provision in the u. S. Code that differentiated on the basis of gender. Host wow. Guest came from the department of defense computer. When no one had a personal computer. And but it was a bonanza. There it was, all the provisions that needed to be changed. So thats the the dissenter on the basis of sex, the name of the film. Host so many democratic norms seem to be under assault now, undermined the media, the judiciary. Im just wondering if you think theres moment when justices should respond. Guest the judiciary is a reactive branch of government. It doesnt generate controversies that come before it. It has no agent. Its reactive to what is out there. Very fine federal judge, judge koleberg from the fifth inch circuit says courts dont make con conflagration but do their best to put them out. People ask me about the opinion. Say, read it. Judges do depend on the bar to explain the importance of an independent judiciary. It is our nations hallmark and pride, the federal judiciary. Is there any decisions you regret . Sunny can do sunny can answer that question by tell you the advice i was given when i was a brand new judge on the derek circuit, by a senior colleague help said, ruth, you have to work hard an every case, every opinion you write, but when its released, when its over and done, dont look back. Dont waste your time worrying about what is done. Go on to the next case and give it your all. And that is wonderful advice for a judge. Host were you able to follow that . Guest without any difficulty, yes. Host wow. Host im impressed. Guest i dont have the same challenged colleagues were asked such as bush v gore. Host theres been a shrugs that the lifetime tenure of Supreme Court justices be replaced by a set term that might i sacker, span several presidencies. Might produce partisan anxiety and older judges could be selected to serve. It could be a graceful way for judges perhaps past their prime to leave the bench, and im just wondering what you think about this idea. Guest age is a subject on which i am biased and prejudiced. [laughter] [applause] guest i will admit that most countries in the world have a compulsory retirement age most of the states have a compulsory retirement age for judges. Some have a fixed term, fixed nonrenewable term. Im grateful to the Founding Fathers for writing into the constitution that the judges shall hold their office during good behavior. So many people have asked me, when are you going to step down . Audience never. Guest my First Response was, i had a painting on loan from the music of american art by Joseph Albers and i loved it. He took it away for me for a traveling show. Eight years later it came back. So i said, i couldnt even begin to think about leaving until i get my albers back. It came back. The next was brandeis. He was the same age as i was when he was appointed. He stepped down after 23 years. That worked for years 20 to 23, but now im the longest sitting jewish justice and woman, brandeis. So i cant use that. So, im just candid and say, as long as i can do the job full steam i will be here. [applause] host well, we are sadly almost out of time. There is one question that i must ask you. If i can take a personal privilege here, a question i had the privilege of asking president obama and prime momentum Benjamin Netanyahu and susan rice when she was National Security adviser. What is your favorite flavor of bagel . [laughter] guest a new york poppy seed bagel. Host my gosh dirked not know. This is amazing. Did not know the answer to this and this may be the only thing that barack obama and Benjamin Netanyahu and Ruth Bader Ginsburg agree on. All picked poppy seed. Wow, im amazed. So, of all the many questions and notes from readers that we received, one stands out and id like to quote from this in our closing. It comes from karly brown of indiana and carli, i hope that you are watching. She is nine years old in the fourth grade, and she says that she is your biggest fan, her girl scout troop marched in a Christmas Parade and were asked to hold up signs about what they wanted to be when they grew up and her sign said, Supreme Court justice. And she wants to be a justice. She says to support womens rights and other people who arent treated fairly. She also are you ready wants to be called c. R. B. Like you. Heres her question what ick do now as a nineyearold to make a change . How can i follow in your footsteps . Guest may i say first that the idea of a young girl aspiring to be a judge, even more Supreme Court justice, is a wonderful thing. I have a granddaughter who is now a lawyer. When she was eight, i was being filmed for some show, and my granddaughter, clara, was with me, and she said that she wanted to be in the film, too, so the filmmaker said, all right, clara, well ask you a question. What would you like to be when you grow up . And this then eightyearold said, i would like to be president of the United States of the world. [laughter] guest a difference between the as aspirations that young women can have today and what they had in the not so good old days, but i think she should take her schoolwork very seriously, become a good reader. Reading is trembley important in the job i now tremendously important in the job i now hold. And then do things in your community. Im sure you will find things, whether its assisting in getting food to the homeless people, or if you care about the environment, helping keep your local parks clean, many things that you can do to make things a little better in your community. So, that is what i would advise her to do. Host well, she asked me to ask you to please stay on the Supreme Court until she can take your spot. [laughter] [applause] somehow i think there are people in this room who might agree. I just want to thank you all. This has been an amazing evening. Personal thanks to my dear friend, and wonderful supporter, kathleen, for the lovely introduction and for all that you did to make this happen. To rabbis, as well as david and courtney and all the people, you are amazing. It was such a pleasure to work with you. [applause] id like to recognize the board chair, jake, and our president , sam, and the rest of the Boards National board, many of whom flew in here to washington to be here tonight to forward readers and supporters, without your generous support, we couldnt do what we can do. And for all of you who came here tonight, and all of those who are watching on webcasts and facebook, online, thank you so much for being part of this wonderful conversation. And of course, our greatest thanks to justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Guest thank you so much. [applause] [applause] [applause] thank you so much. Thank you. [cheers and applause] id like to ask you to please remain in your seats until the justice has exited the building, and the security personnel will then open the doors behind you. This is a perfect time to talk about all the Amazing Things we learned tonight. So thank you so much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] cspans history series, landmark case, returns each month with a look at 12 new Supreme Court cases. Each week historians and experts join us to discuss the constitutional issues and personal stories behind these significant Supreme Court decisions. Beginning monday, february 26th, live at 9 p. M. Eastern and to help you understand the case we have a companion guide, written by vern Supreme Court journalist, landmark cases, so many 2 volume 2. To tote your copy go to cspan. Org landmark cases. Friday, on cspan 2, the Justice Department hosts a conference on Human Trafficking with attorney general Jeff Sessions and Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen and later, Actress Rose Mcgowan talked about heir memoir, brave, and her career in hollywood. Live coverage here on cspan 2. Sunday night, on after words, former speech write are for president george w. Bush and atlantic columnist, david from, with his book the corruption of the american republic, trump october contractsy. Ohi i speaker individual by carlos comes from the same root as democracy, is a book about the study of power. Thats what the sufficient fix means. The story another Donald Trumps power, he does it get it, obtain it, get away with it. Its a system of enabling, the system in the white house, the system between trump and congress, the statement between trump and the media that enables him and creates an audience. The system that involves the republican donor elite, the traditional elements of the Republican Party and between him and that core group of his voters, within the Republican Party, who enabled him to win the republican nomination and then go on to the presidency. Watch after words sunday night at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan2s booktv. At the heritage foundation, Navy Admiral John richardson discusses the u. S. Navy and its role in protecting National Interests and discussed the effective of delayed Defense Budgets on naval readiness. This is an hour. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining me here those morning and welcoming the navys 31st chief of naval operations, admiral John Richardson to discuss the navy