Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jake Bernstein Secrecy World 20180113

Dont forget to go to our website if you dont want to go do that you can give us the email address. Pick up the copy of the newsletter on the counter. Secrecy world offers a disturbing and sobering view of how the world really works and raises critical questions about financial and legal institutions we may once had trusted. The investigative Journalist Team that broke that story. They are written for the washington post. Pro public advice. Nbc the editor of the texas observer. Mister jake bernstein. It is great to be here great to see so many old friends thank you so much to books in the books to mitchell kaplan. I dont know if you all know. But he now makes movies in addition to selling books in his latest is currently in theaters my wife and i saw the other day. Our review is that it is delightful. I encourage everybody to see it. They encompass an entire shadow economy. In jersey. Its also places that offer secret Bank Accounts like switzerland in singapore. And also the intermediary is. Now i wish i have invented this phrase because i love it that i did not. I came upon it while rummaging through that the Panama Papers. They were plundered by an anonymous source. And a german newspaper. And then shared it with the international contortion. I was part of the team that spent a year digging through those documents. I found this amazing glossary. It had been written by a junior employee and what made it so fantastic was that a Senior Lawyer had gone through the document and deleted the places where the original author have been a little bit too candid. A little too truthful. It was all there plain as day in the miracle of the track changes. There was an entry for aggressive tax avoidance. And the lawyer had removed the phrase uncertain legality. It was stuff like that. I came apart this term secrecy world. It encompasses the end regulated market and all of those who would create an promote the jurisdictions and what they offer. They can be completely legal and perhaps a shrewd business strategy. One of the greatest values is that they offer concealment that could be hiding their activities or assets from the Business Partners or your wife or in some places kidnappers it can also be hiding your activities or assets from government tax collectors. Or Law Enforcement. Many stories were told. And they stretch back as far as the early 1980s and actually there were companies in the documents that go back even further. One company we found from the 1930s and the secrecy world is not static. It morphs, and changes it reacts and so the files tell the story of the evolution of this world. The secret world. For a long time particularly in the 1980s and 90s. It was of the the wild west. Those three monkeys see nothing here nothing say nothing that is is what governed the secrecy world. You ask questions. It wasnt necessary to know who actually owned the company. Theyre called the ultimate beneficial owner. Once it was created you put the information into a file and you forgot about it until a year have passed and there was time to send the invoice to renew. And sometimes not even then. There is a stories of the secrecy world about a man who was the biggest client in geneva and he actually ends up selling his office to the firm. In leaving the country in the middle the night. Before that he had joked with subordinates that he slept with a gun under his pillow. It turns out that he has a habit of taking the money to renew the company but never actually renewing the company. Until the client needed it for something. It is of a firm that found a great Business Model for that. The 1980s and 90s. Highvolume, lowcost think of mcdonalds. They were innovators. They took an island chain known for tourism and drug smuggling. Nothing much was happening and turned into a belching factory of shale companies. Some of the incorporators followed the lead that the two men decided to look elsewhere to try to gain a new advantage and i will lead you a little bit about that. Right now. As they crowded into the bahamas they looked to increase the business elsewhere. The United States pointed away. He was familiar with the ship registry since the 1950s he have it registered ships under their own flag but the public registry was never based in africa. They resided in a suite of offices in new york city. It was created by a former u. S. Secretary of state in conjunction with corporate interests like shell oil. They if they could have a monopoly by running their own public registry by credit they. The south pacific. The reflections were to find a friendly country to allow itself to be used as a jurisdiction. She disappeared for a week. Literally disappeared and poppa new guinea. We were really worried. We thought maybe she would she was eaten by cannibals or something. Prospecting and an offshore conference and one day at the conference she was sitting at the hotel bar and struck up a conversation with the neighbor on the stool beside her. Shed been sent out by the bosses in panama to find a magical land her new friend listened with interest. We can do that he told her. Her bart bart mate was the they were situated in the middle of nowhere. Northeast of new england. In the rising three sea levels. In 1774 when the locals are repeatedly prevented the captain from landing there prompting him to debit savage island. In 1901. But approved selfgovernment under an Association Agreement in 1974. The site been but the money was not enough to make it meet. When they met louis. They were already investigating converting to a tax haven to create additional income for approximately 500 inhabitants. They joined a group. They largely copied the bbi law which bvi law which itself had been copied from delaware and customize it for example the law allowed Company Names in chinese characters and the russians it was passed in 1994. Later that year. To sell the jurisdictions to the chinese. With the registry opened they could crank out a new company and under an hour with ever price they have the blank documents. All they have to do was check from panama. We could control the process in the speed. With the companies from being used by criminals. About stand hope investments. Using it to buy Expensive Properties in london. The prosthetic uterus the prosecutors sentenced him to 13 years in prison. Goldstein and the south African Investment company. In argentina the father and son operated in network that u. S. Prosecutors alleged were used to pay bribes in exchange for multimillion dollar television contracts. One of these Companies Purchased the rights for the soccer matches and then flipped them to the ecuadorian broadcaster for 311,000. Despite the ease of incorporation it was always a tough sell to many potential customers. If you think people dont know where it is try explaining to them with the middle of the pacific ocean. There were all kinds of dangers that came from selling companies but asking no questions about the owners. At first these were the kinds of problems that just afflicted society but not them personally. But it did not stay that way. As the story illustrates. The founder of the Guadalajara Cartel he owed his fortune to transporting cocaine in late 1984 the thriving marijuana business. He led it. A massive plantation. Where they found more than a thousand acres of plants. Likely worth several billion dollars. He lashed out. In american novelist and a dental student were among the first to die. In january 1985 the two friends mistakenly walked in. The drug king was having a private party. They kidnapped the students who they may have the system suspected. They torture them. One of them is still alive when they put them in the ground. The following month the men grabbed him. After he left the american consulate and the burnt the ex marine with cigarettes and beat him with a tire iron for two days in a secret chamber. Ill dr. Was on call to keep the agent alive. Before they discovered the body. They boarded a jet and left the country. He did business with jose marie a local lawyer with a crooked clientele. They wanted to serve an indictment. With hundreds of millions of dollars. They deliver the papers. One of the attorneys. In the early days on april 4. They arrested carol can tear up. During the time in the Central American nation. Among the four properties he owned. And traveled around in a limousine. Despite the publicity surrounding the arrest they manage to stay in the background. About a week after the extradition to mexico. He paid him to act as a director of the company. At least one of the Companies Held a sprawling mansion on the out skirts. In 1989. An mexican judge u. S. Authorities accused him of continuing behind bars. For investing his considerable fortune. What the properties confiscated. They stopped pain. They died on Christmas Eve and 2004. A year later the lawyer sent an email to the partners. The president and the secretary general have visited the office with the thorny problem. Theyd given the committee the mansion for the new headquarters but they could not acquire the legal title because technically they still held it through the panamanian company. The elliptic committee wanted him as a director of the company to donate the property to the committee to avoid a complicated process. It seemed ill advised. The firm decided that they would design their business. In the legal issues on their own. He was a child nursing at his mothers breast compared to that notorious kingpin. I dont want to break a mom those. On august the ninth 2013 a judge and guadalajara unexpectedly released him on a technicality. With 12 months and 12 years remaining. Before they could extradite them he disappeared. The list of tips. The high volume low cost model was opportune because it became before which made it easy to streamline. It was a time when there was incredible wealth in the developing world even as countries like russia and china in the u. S. Proved increasingly unwilling to provide welfare for their citizens. The consequences of which can be seen in one heartwrenching story they transferred billions of dollars to their children. They have a gdp per capita of about 9,000. The Economic Situation has forced them to seek work abroad they joined the crew of the russian cargo cyst ship. I sit month kind by the demo group. In the united arab emirates. According to them the files. This offshore company and others through the offshore company and others and several other ships. They added an additional layer of secrecy by shuffling the registration among small Pacific Island nations. Which required Little Information or regulation for the ships that flew in their flag. Their flag. Instead of Economic Opportunity they found themselves a preventer dash make a a prisoner aboard a slave ship. It have no air conditioning it baked. They refuse to pay them. He took a bad fall. Despite document several different ports they denied his request to seek medical care. Within a month the machinist was dead. And another crewmate went missing from the ship after complaining to the russians about the conditions aboard the ross. His body was never discovered. Has husband was thrown overboard. They issued a an arrest warrant. But they simply change the name and continued ceiling. The men also owned the ss belize. They abandoned in the philippines 12 russians eight indians and one ukrainian without paying for their work. They declared bankruptcy and walked away from the company. The russian prosecutors filed charges against two of the owners. For use of slave slave labor. Guess you will see that. And they will prey on the innocent. Also services plenty of innocent people and most american multinational corporations why does it matter to us here today. In miami is a great example of why. Foreign nationals bought nearly 6. 1 billion worth of property. Just in 2015. It was a more than double the national average. Led by south americans. Much of the bite comes from those who distrust their butt when a Shell Company is widely used it also allows corrupt politicians and criminals to spirit their cash out. At their not reported to their local tax authorities can deprive them of needed revenue. Developing companies lost between 620 billion. And at home this behavior contributes to making miami one of the worst places to be a renter in the country. So the United States by one estimate loses 70 billion a year in tax revenue from shifting corporate profits. The republicans hope that some of that money will return home when they lower Corporate Tax rates. But there is little incentive to do so. That is to say nothing of individuals. Zillions more. Other leaks it shows a global leak that is no longer bound by the nationstate in the way that most of us are. They live in multiple cities for travel the world and private jets. The top 1 of households own more wealth than the bottom 90 combined. Its getting worse. It is one that they know well it has long been a frequent user and it admitted during the campaign that he had 515 Companies Including 378 registered in delaware. It was used as a template nine of trumps former Business Partners many minimart were connected to now indicted campaign manager. And soninlaw here is the story of one of them. Another apparent investor trump joined forces with bayrack in 2005 offering a brandname and they could coalesce. There best known project. In one of the trendiest neighborhoods. Trump announced the project on a television show. For the use of the name and input they received a 15 cut of sales with another 3 parceled out to two of his children. In 2007 a reef cut a deal with the Florida Group for 50 million in financing for trump and three other trump related process in return for future process. They signed a document a green to the arrangement and a group was an International Investment Company Serving the financial mania. They spun off offshore companies lick like a pinwheel. A number of them there. It would go belly up when financial crisis exposed the fraud. A search of the group. Leads to substantial loans investments in india. And the largest debtor in luxembourg. They charge the companys former ceo with embezzlement of about 22 million in corporate funds. But the businessman was acquitted at trial. A civil suit against him filed by a former employee jodi chris speculated that some of the money was russian in origin. They operated for years for a pattern of continuous crimes. He further less that the groups in the trump soho project was a fail disguised as a loan. To avoid pain approximately 29 in taxes. He denied the allegations and said he have nothing to do with the financing. Lending only his name. I dont know who owns it. In the deposition. That the group was helping to finance a project. I never really understood that. Another apparent investor according to a pamphlet was alexander matchett. It was part of it trio a conglomerate. A spokesperson said the billionaire never invested in trump soho or bayrack he was also close to the president for life whose grandson and other relatives at their own companies in 2011 the three principles behind er and see. What accused of money laundering. They were subsequently dropped when the agreed. The nrc had deep ties. Through a trash trust company. Company. Some of the companies were involved in mining in congo. It was implicated in a bribery investigation. You also have the companies. He denies any wrongdoing. In 2014 the intermediate attempted to move those Companies Directly there. The law firms Compliance Department reviewed the matter and discovered they were related to en rc limited. All of the people involved were politically exposed people. They have recently been delisted from the London Stock Exchange after a massive share price dropped. The company faced multiple investigations. There were too many red flags even there. Found in the course of our investigation. The decision is do not accept these companies under our administration wrote one of the firms compliance officers. When at the Panama Papers broke it was everywhere. They did not fully realize what have happened to his firm. Until he turned on the television and saw his lifes work on every single channel. They have more than 300 reporters from around the world some dangerous pictures. I never saw it. The death by carpet bombing was clearly a message through journalists everywhere. Her son matthew is a staff member of the international distortion. Let me close with an expert excerpt with how they dealt with the publication of the panama pickers papers. Release came from the cia. The note sketched out oddly conspiracy theory. The first round much Stories Ministry pop lathed once they received from the information new identification will be posted on the National Government to justify the current attempt to increase interexperience and sanctions from the obama administration. Leaving us without room to maneuver before public opinion. Chillingly the memo also singled out by name venezuelan reportersing working for independent media organizations that have participated in the project. Throughout the world, publication of the data fed into a tax on journalist preexisting political and social drama in various country ors reporters and editors wrestled with which part of the data was in the public interest. In europe and United States come to in and about concern was taxing and people aserrating them and latin america, an africa, tax was a violates issue but it took second place to concern about corruption. And political repression. In ecuador president rafael denounced participants on twitter and rallied a troll army to send them a message. He hopefully included social media accounts which were then did diluged nasty comments and two newspapers involved in the project. As panama had done the newspapers ran their stories without byline after everyone else had already published the findings sourced to icij not to leak documents revealed that the countrys attorney general president cousin a former or govern of the central Bank Secretary of intelligence who was a intermediary were in the data. Family that owned also had a company but the owner himself had alerted monica the bureau chief leading the investigation for the newspaper about the firm. He had been accompany create ared after president and won a civil judgment against paper that threatened it shut it down. As part of his efforts to reign in media spearheaded creation of the named citizen participation and social control counsel. A u if years earlier the counsel sent a letter to the newspapers demanding that the report percent appear before it on monday april 18th. The release was on april 3rd. The handover he wanted them to hand over data to respond to questions. Reporters sent a letter to friday before meeting declining to appear and explaining that hay did not have a data. Icij did. A showdown appeared imminent. But on the intervening saturday a 7. 8 magnitude earthquake devastated ecuador as focus of the media and government turned to victims and the damage, the monday meet was quietly forgotten and reporters were saved from having to appear before the committee. So thank you very much thats all i had prepared for or the reading but i would love to take some of yalls questions i suspect that we have monal of people many this audience. So does min have any questions . How does Apple Company follow into this i mean is this considered same kind of they are absolute absolute users of the secrecy world and where apple shows uhuh up in is the Paradise Papers which came after the Panama Papers. Paradise papers were a leak from a law firm called apple bee based in bermuda slightly different than most, they didnt have same model it was more high end. So they had higher truly uber wealthy and one sec tried somewhat to stay is away from americans all hoe they have quite a few. Apple b worked with a lot of americans there were more than 30,000 elite. So apple is in is in the community and what is interest about apple is they have come under quite a bit of a attack by the european eye on because they have used ireland to avoid billions of dollars in taxes and basically to funneling their profit into ireland instead of where they were made in europe and other places because island has a low tax rate. But because the European Union is starting to clamp down on that, apple contacted apple contacted apple b, and asked them to find us another tax haven where we can continue to do this kind of thing. This is orvel not what they were saying publicly at all and ceo has said testified before congress that you know were not going to do this kind of stuff. But what the paradise paper shows is, in fact, it was still ongoing. Any other questions . Steve when you have a country for example that is not corrupt, and then you find people who are trying to evade taxes and so forth, you feel that her it really in the wrong. Right, i mean, were a society where taxes are used for streets, for school and so forth. But at the same time then you have other countries that are corrupt in themselves within the government, and there are private citizens who are trying to protect their wealth in many different ways. With your experience, what was had the big lesson that you got from all of this . And where are we going to go . This is such a great question and observation really because to say you are in okay core, and you have managed to to make some money. And your neighbors are all offshoring their money and newscasting outside of the country and using these Anonymous Companieses. And not paying their taxes. I think you would probably feel like a chump if you were only one pay your taxes particularly because theres a lot of corruption and you know the money sort of disappears and you dont really see the results of that. So it is it is something that it is one of those sort of o collective action problem right where you need a ground swell of citizen who is say this is not going to work anymore. We all need to to stop doing this together. Whats so interest about panama and Paradise Papers is that as i sort of mention that theres been this this global elite. The uber wealthy who no longer feel attached to any particular nation. You know, they live outside of the National Rule that govern most of them. And i dont know how you change that. I think it is going to have to happen from you know from below. From individual citizens that gathering together and saying no, if youre going to do business in this country, you need to pay your taxes here. And it will force some people out. There are people who live in these tax havens precisely because they want to avoid paying taxes. I assume that will continue. Its a very difficult thing to attack and whats interesting is, you know, what they were doing was they were because they had had this high volume low cost model they were spreading companies out you know hundreds of thousands of them to the world in a way sort of democktizing them and accessible to nearly rich not just uber wealthy and that has changed a little bit. I think the barred brie is now a little bit higher. You have to be you know much more wealthy to really to do this and to for it to have value. Other o thing is that, it has moved a little bit. So theres been so much pressure on the bvi, and some of the other traditional tax havens that that people are moving to singapore theyre moving to dubai. Theyre moving to other places that are sort of the new frontier for this kind of behavior. So its difficult because you can see it in data wave many one of the ways that the sort of fascinating i talk about a lot in the book are bare share. So bare shares are things where you own the own the company and whoever owns this is bare shares certificate right, its a share of the company. And say the company has two shares. And if you own these two certificates you own the company. And if i give the two shares to you, you know two certificates the two pieces of paper then you own the company, and you know, Law Enforcement tapes this because its very easy to move assets around without any identifiable traces. Its reviews by criminal and money landering and they have tamped down on it and some ways by you know you law bare shares and other places by putting it under. So it has to be in a safe and a lawyer has to have control of it. The only two places left wail that offer bare shares are the marshal islands, and liberia which both run out of the United States. Actually offices in new york and in virginia. But you would see in the data where one jurisdiction say that bbi would tamp down on bare shares. And then there would be a spike of incorporations and panama where they still offered them. So its sort of this thing that evolves in u mutates to continue to to be the, you know, do the same kind of behavior. I was wondering have you been tots island northeast of new zealand and how did you feel when overall lieutenant committed suicide in argentina i think it was last month. And i would love to go and he said to me that he, obviously, went and he said that it was beautiful and that he saw the most stars in the sky that he would ever see in his entire life. And and talk about this later in the book with the bad press that you can get out and they did get out but they kept one business that they were in it wasnt Anonymous Companies it was selling 900 sex phone numbers. So continues to do that. I hadnt heard about the suicide what the i mean, this is this secret world that you know people enter into it believing that it is going to stay secret and when these things come out they have all kinds of unintended consequences. I mean, the u. S. Intelligence services have conjectured or o postulated that part of the reason why Vladimir Putin attacked dnc and the u. S. Electoral o system was that he was so upset about the revelations and the Panama Papers and he blamed the obama administration. And so that was one of the reasons why he decided to go after the u. S. Election. So there are all kinds of unintended consequences from making the secret world public. But, you know, thats what happens. Victor. He answered one my questions. But i wanted to probe you a little further. Regarding shiewtions as we sit here, there are attorneys going around the planet trying to create a network to hunt down Hidden Assets. Im wondering if a possible solution were talking about unintended consequences are unhappy spouses who right are trying to track down their Hidden Assets and is this made with the solution is may come from. From lots of hidden asset attorneys networking around the planet which is happening right now. Yeah, i mean, thats been going on for a while. With you know concern it depends on the the attorney and the place on how successful they are. I just dont think that you can really expect to see real change in that sort of piecemeal way. But there are some Great Stories along those lines, i mean dimitri who is guard he got involved in a multibillion dollar divorce, and his wife accused him of hiding his assets in most companies and they went to war with solicit multiple jurisdiction and managed to get a couple billion dollars out of him. One more question did i just hear you say that that the secret world is responsible for our high rents many miami and youre blaming them cell. Can you elaborate on that . Well bairvegly you have all of hes foreign nationals buy up property often times in cash through Anonymous Company website and oftentimes of questionable providence you know where that money is coming from. So theyre buying Investment Properties they may not be living there which has its own host of issue ors and that sort of crowds out people who you know are are more modest means. Who want to also buy properties but theyre just not available or the prices skyrocketed. We were neighbors of [inaudible conversations] former partners of one of his wives my question is and we also know a few lawyers involved in this. But my question is since the americans that were implemented in federal papers had any charges, my criminals investigations then started against them . Great question. There has. I think they point out that theyre like 100 you know, about more than 100 several hundred investigations sort of underway in panama itself there are at least six different criminal proceedings involving most stewart detained for two almost more than two months quite funny actually, they were involved in or detained or prosecuted for a, for their role in brazilian scandal called lavito operation car wash that is corporation and the for the oil company. So they went to o their houses were researched and they were going to go present themselves before the Public Ministry. And ramon who who can be a the hot head at times gave this impromptu press conference in front on step of the Public Ministry where he basically accused president and other people this in the government of being involved in the same kind of corruption that he and they were accused of, and he believes ramon believes that is why they ended up many jail for two months. So now theres several criminal proceedings keeping low profile as you might knows and then they have their own proceeding trying to figure out who hacked them or whether, in fact, it was a hack or a leak. You know which, obviously, has is different consequence depending on which one it is. Uncovered a lot of Sensitive Information were you ever threatened . No, i mean personally i was i was not threatened i was very lucky i was working out of new york. So it was not an issue but for our russian colleague and other os who had had to, you know, be be very careful. We had a partner, and the lead reporter editor on the project trs the end of it needed a body guard. She had been when jeeringen and found out and sent questions you know to end of the project they visited and singled out her even though she wasnt in the meeting and you know, intimidated that that they knew who she was and prudent that they were to get a body guard so they were attacked on twirts and personally no in america were fairly, fairly safe from those thing for the moment. [knock knock] when you get i think and heavy lifting comes in the processing. Now, is that going to be the face of the new sort of Investigative Journalism that is a leaker somewhere that givers you a Christmas Present but these big datas are a big part of the future and too much data now and its accessible, and its hard to keep underwraps and see more of that. And really good at making this data accessible to journalists through sort of their own secret platforms of Password Protected in everything. And making them searchable. I mean, the data came in all kind of forms that came as pbs came as pit file and audio files and j peg all of these Different Things that managed to sort of crunch data and make it completely searchable by hundreds of journalists who did that in secret for a year. So this was no easy task to pull off. But i think well be seeing more of that even though you know, its got its challenges. Listening to you if you were to stick a pen had in all of these appearances worldwide it is so huge is there any coordination or end game among all of these players or you hi it is all desperate activity . Worldwide . No, these the biggest players in the offshore world meet they know each other. They attend conferences. And theyre agile at lobbies for their business tax havens were in washington recently trying to influence the the tax bill that republicans are discussing. They had a concerted effort to try to beat back other efforts to reform the industry in the 2000s i talk about what in the book. So theyre this is actually remarkably coordinated and theres too much money involved. So yeah formidable. Only question on the rent thing. You talked about how Shell Company and money landering and on the main the winner in money landering this is a good thing for our city. Its like yesterday and im seeing cartoonist money pane im thinking you know, on the maine is it good for miami are we one of the winners of this . But if you work in the Service Industry you cant afford to live here so its and then a lot of this money is flighty. So you know how much of it is actually being preserved for taxes if you look around the infrastructure many this in this county is falling apart. And you know part of that is just you know as well as anybody robert inability and just enate corruption for one of the better words of the politicians in Miamidade County but part of it is tax revenue is not here even though you have money coming many for the service stuff and there are taxes on you know hotels all of that stuff and quite high. I think met, i mean, there is a benefit for sure. And its not, its not equal across the board. So there are losers and there are winners, and probably losers i would guess. What are dangers of the overall worldwide stock market et cetera banks to the outside activity . And is it was something they can do thats going to affect the marketsome i mean Global Capital moves around and theres all kinds of ways that it can about affect things. Ive been talking a lot today about bitcoin kind of many this huge bubble right now. It has become a favorite of money landers. I think in part because there has been more attention on these tax havens and sort of getting and increased to some degree. Bitcoin is, in fact, a bubble and, in fact, partly a bubble because money that went to banks or went through Anonymous Companies is no longer going there because there are more rigorous due diligence. If it pops, that will have economic consequences for entire world probably that starts in part because of the way this system works and efforts to control it. As i see this kind of situation crossings all political ideologies. So it is very dangerous. Its not something that you can say with this group or that group pose it is. But everybody is benefiting to left and right. Thats absolutely good observation. I mean, both in the apple bee papers and to lesser degree in the Panama Papers, there are plenty of democratic donors to the clintons and to others. This is the you know in the papers they found one of the biggest democratic donors who forbes had completely gotten wrong. It was like four or five wrong higher than anybody knew because he had to trust with billions of dollars many it and bermuda that nobody has ever heard about it was sort of a secret trust his plan was to use this as a charity to give the money away he says. [laughter] it was completely unknown and donors so it is yeah, its a class thing more than a political thing how about africa . Africa is sort of a closer child for the problems of this system. To Companies Like to pull out resource pres africa without actually putting any money back into africa or certainly not anything expense rat to what theyre taking out. And theres i think a former head of nigeria, to that country, and they discovered that had 20 years ago, and only now finally getting around to giving the last bit of it back to nigeria are. Its so its a huge problem in africa. And its fascinating , i mean, if you talked to the african, africa journalist or people who know about this in africa, they can talk at length about stuff like transfer pricing and all kind of complicated tax finishes because theyre increasingly aware that this system is is greatest advantage to them. Sure any sense of how the money people all flock to one place or o another. How does he get around and how do all of them go to one place . And whats the informational pipeline . Its amazing its just exactly what you would expect theres conferences and theres pamphlet and theres a great theres a great anecdote in the book about bermuda or some place like that where theres a big debate within but theyve got all of these leaflets you know these pamphlets that they want to hand out to tell you exactly how to avoid paying taxes to the United States. But they have to o fly through the United States. And so what do you do because if cuss tolls find pamphlets thats going to be a problem. You know, at the very least theyll get the pamphlets so they talk to one lawyer who is sort of well versed in this and he says key is you accepted it to o the hotel where conference is by mail. And then you can go through the United States and you dont have to worry about pam nets that tell u. S. Citizens how to avoid paying taxes through this system. But there are all kinds of, you know, conferences and and different ways you know this system is really run by lawyers clients, and banksers who let them know how to run it. Banks were big player miss this at a certain point it got too hot for them and they kind of pushed it out the door a little bit. But you know kept it going. So there would be Relationship Managers of the bank who have been ones urging clients to set up Anonymous Companieses and what they would do is they would they would make it so that Relationship Manager was no longer officially an employee of the bank but he would have you know but he would continue to have the same relationship. You know both with the bank and with the client. So whats interesting theres a hot potato claim and they dont want to claim responsibility even though banks are ones with the about the taints are lawyers who want to who set them up up on behalf of the clients oh no it is one who created Anonymous Company who is at fault and you need to go to or its the client and nobody will really take responsibility for it and one way to ips late yourself from the legal consequences. In successful with a grand cayman bank, i know that grand cayman has banks that are multinational in other words theyre not just limited to grand canaan i cant remember which one many particular. But isnt there starting to be some where a subpoena or order from u. S. District judge will invade the information barrier . You know, i dont know about the grand cayman in particular buts theres a story that i tell in this book about a lawsuit that was pursued by a billionaire named fall singer in nevada. Whats interesting about this is the secka had a franchise and office in nevada in las vegas, and they claimed to tell singer that the office of the invest not really part of the firm. That it was a separate entity and that they just had a you know a client, a user a relationship with seca what we found through the document was, in fact, that it was absolutely part of seca, in fact, seca operate od phone and controlled everything. But what singer managed to do many court was to prove that had subsidiary was part and that the court had a right to to depose and to get information directly. So i think if you were tiebl show that a bank was, in fact, operate oing in United States and not operating independently but actually part of a large per sort of institution in another place you might be able to get to legal logic in bank where the place where it is actually based. Sure hiding resources and money one of the greatest threats because of their wanting to hide all of this information. I think the greatest threat against the free press right now is is the authoritarian bend to certain leaders who are calling, you know, journalism fake news or attacking journalist by name or the press in general. More than the offshore system in general i mean, whats just from my personal opinion. Sure. So part of one of the effects of, i mean, these kind of publications is kind of the diminished men of the Attorney Client privilege. And also kind of when you see the cia documents being disclosed, that is National Security being diminished, what do you concern do you feed out of the problem and how big is it do you think . Really interest question and i talk about this a little bit this in secrecy world irs and others have been reluctant to go after the law firms that these structures offer. Because theyre worried about the client turning aside privilege nows theres a widespread belief at least in Law Enforcement that you know setting up anonymous Shell Company or trust is not actually legal activity. So would not be protected by the Attorney Client privilege. But you know, the irs and the Justice Department often are gun shy. They dont like to lose, they dont like to invest resources where it is not guaranteed that theyll win, and so they have been reluctant to sort of push, push a point. But i, i mean, a lot of people think that this is this is simply not kofded by that privilege. Catch up on the world and how theyre theres a whole chapter about, you know its great fun. I mean, you know lots of reason why you have offshore company by a painting might be buying it and moving it to another place but it really is particularly i go into great detail about the freeports where you know, has become to some degree because of the value another commodity in investment not necessarily something that you hang on the wall as much as you stick in vault and wait for it to deappreciate as part of that, it is sort of dub very nicely with the sort of secrecy world in the Anonymous Companies, and its been used across art world. Theres an interesting story in here about a group of collectors who bought a painting that might have been stolen by the nazis in the used moms company to hide that providence of the painting. Theres another wonderful story in here about about the first, big modern art option which really kind of changed art market and apparently paintingses people thought were belonged to this very well known collector family but they had already actually been bought by the largest shareholder of kristy which was doing auction and all done through a new company. So the art world is is sort of change in the same way as this with the wealthy and the offshore system anding anything that Robert Mueller investigation is looking into, the area youve been looking into it part of their exploration of the russian involvement in the election. Thats a great question, i think think that i mean with the indictment its all over this hes looking at companieses and that map is set up and Bank Accounts and you know clearly the ails allegation is there was money landering going through this and cyprus had been a bad actor in this world and somebody told me in cyprus when you bought an Anonymous Company and anonymous Shell Company, you got a bank account that came along with it. It came attach to the company nobody knew who was behind the company or any information like that. So manafort, though, is accused of using that system for money landering, i mean mueller has got a crack team of investigators and prosecutors and i suspect they know this world really well and most of the tricks and so i think theyll be more at what. Kushner Jared Kushner have got a lot of connections into this world he does business with a lot of different people, and theyre involved in all kinds of things. Including tied back to the death in russia which was a big part of this whole scandal with russia trying to get rid of the sanctions that that triggered. All right wilbur was in Paradise Papers, the leat icij leak, and its interesting. And they have had some bad, bad days recently. And that was only part of it. Turns out that he said he got invested for most of his and wasnt exactly clear and specific this in his testimony and filings he kept a piece of a company that does shipping business with russians including soninlaw of putin married to his daughter. This was a bit of a scandal for ross although it was not broken into par deuce papers that he lied about his net worth. But again ability to hide your activities and to dodge transparency becomes a particular problem if youre going to be a published official. And you know this is it is important or sister of note that it is not, you know, it is not black and white all of the time. I mean there are legitimate reasons to, you know, where one could have offshore company or not necessarily breaking a law to have anonymous Shell Company. Although as as someone one of the lawyers says, in an email, 95 of our businesses to help people avoid taxes. But again, avoiding taxes is not necessarily illegal its evading taxes that isnt what you can talk about distinction between the two. But so yeah people feel i even gotten nice comments from people in panama who appreciate the fact that i make a point of explain and saying in the booing that biggest claires and influencers in this world are the United States and the u. K. Because u. K. Has affiliated countries the bgi and jersey and Channel Islands and all of that that are the biggest players many this and delaware is a monster when it comes to Anonymous Companies. Theyre pulling in a billion dollars a year just from the fees associated with selling these companies and theyre telling them to all kinds of people including according to the Justice Department you know, Eastern European and russian criminal. So and i think they felt really bruised beaten that they call it the Panama Papers even though really most of the companies were based in the bbi, and panamas own Corporation Law comes from delaware, to have responsibility appropriately and i think that was appreciated by some of the folks involved. Great, thank you so much. [music] i get ill be signing books so it please buy one and come and i will heres a look at booking being published this week an american founder and president of project james okef offers his thoughts on how ho public is misinformed by the media. Nifghtive journalist explores president trumps political initiatives in its even worse than you think. In the square had many the tower, historian Neil Ferguson argues that networks of people have impacted history more than hierarchies. And black lives matter cofound per patrice reflect on the the birth and growth of the black lives Matter Movement in when they call you a terrorist. Also between Antonin Scalia and legal expert briern garner. Former white house speech writer david thumb officer critical look how Trump Administration is reshaping the political landscape. In trump. In broken former Senior Senate staffer weighs miss on partnership in the senate and Political Science professor virginia look at how algorithm and automated programs have impacted poor in automating inequality in book stores this coming week and watch for many of the authors in the near future. On booktv, on cspan2. Heres a look at some of the best nonfiction books of 2017 according to the los angeles times. Atlantic National Correspondent franklin fuller reports on tradeoff between technology and personal privacy in World Without mind. In the great quake, New York Times science reporter Henry Fountain reports on the largest earthquake ever recorded in north america which happened many 1964 in alaska. Biographer Ruth Franklin recalls the life and writing of author shirley jackson. Pulitzer prize winning journalist glenn telling story behind a classic movie hi noon and Political Climate at the time it was made. And many we were 8 years in power, to know that coats, examines race reelses in america ands legacy of president obama. When i came into journalism, one of the big admonishing from older black writers and well meaning white writers was dont, dont get boxed off as a black writer. Dont allow them to you know and i understand what they were saying freedom to o pursue yourself whenever your curiosity go and i agonize because really my curiosity you know led me actually back, back to my people back to my community. And it was only really u you know what i started doing that, that report under the presidency concern you know the obama that i came to understand that as i say i was never boxed in. I was boxed out because africanamerican history doesnt exist over here. It is the thread run aring running right through the country itself so if you [applause] they dont get that. You know, they hi it is just you know one little, you know, like you got different color in rainbow and this is one color in the rainbow. [laughter] many of the authors have appeared on booktv, you can watch them online line on our website, booktv. Org. Good afternoon there are lots of seats in the front. Im told they have Boston Red Sox tickets under it so you have to get those seats in the front to get the tickets. So for those of you who are tut, im an administrator and you know not to believe me. Give everybody a couple of minutes to just grb a seat