Transcripts For CSPAN2 Francine Klagsbrun Lioness 20180113

Im the senior director of education here is my pleasure to welcome you to tonights author talk with Francine Klagsbrun on her new book, lioness. A program we are culprits sent to you with the jewish week. We are honored to host this talk in particular because francine has been a longtime Jewish Museum board member. For 30 years, in fact. We appreciate her ongoing dedication to our institution and programming. Please visit our website to sign up for our enews to learn about concerts and workshops. After the talk we invite you to stay for a reception when francine will find books in the corner. Now please join me in welcoming gary rosenblatt, editor and publisher of the jewish week who will introduce our speaker. [applause]. Thank you very much and good evening, everyone. Before i forget i want to ask all of you to turn off your cell phones and that goes for you too, golda. So, as editor and publisher of the jewish week and im proud that jewish week is scope present in this program along with our friends here at the Jewish Museum and im so honored to be introducing the woman of the hour, Francine Klagsbrun who in addition to her other writings is deeply admired and avidly read as a columnist for the jewish week and a dear friend, so on my way in this evening, fran, i heard two gentlemen talk about your new book and one said its a great read, you cant beat it and the other one said beat it, you cant lift it. [laughter] so, the truth is i received an advance copy of the book and was a little intimidated by its size and heft. Yes, its 813 pages, but keep in mind that includes 73 pages of carefully annotated notes in the back followed by 55 pages of bibliography and index, so the text is really about 695 pages. [laughter] fran, when i finish reading it i plan to make [inaudible] that they celebration that scholars make to mark the completion after months or years of study. Seriously, as i read this book i come await each time enlightened and full of admiration, not only for the remarkable accomplishments of golda meir, the central figure in modern jewish history, but for the way francine has made her come to life in this monumental work and it is now and forever that definitive biography of golda. As francie told sandy whose excellent piece on the new book is featured in this weeks issue of the jewish week, francine felt like she began to inhabit golda during the eight years she spent working on this book. It is long and thoroughly researched, but it is not a dry read. Pick up any page and start reading and you will be drawn into the narrative, the story of the unique woman and emerging nation and of ancient people. Fortunately, im some layer with francine writing because she has been contributing to monthly call in to the jewish week almost from the time i came to the paper in 1993. Given our rates contributing is pretty accurate. But, i can tell you of all a columnist and reporters and others whose work i see in the office is the most reliable in meeting a deadline and producing the cleanest copy. I wasnt at all surprised when i heard friends editor say that the manuscript came in at Something Like 346,000 words and she didnt have to change any of them. Now, thats the sign of either a great writer or a really lazy editor. [laughter] and i know she is one of the best editors in the business. What is so impressive to me about france output between her books and her essays is that she is both a scholarly historian and a keen observer of contemporary trends and thats a rare combination. Shes the author of more than a dozen books. Her other works include voices of wisdom, the fourth commandment remember the sabbath sabbath day, and married people Stay Together in the age of divorce. She was editor of the bestselling free to be you and me produced by marla thomas marlo thomas. Shes contributed many publications and addition to ba and ma degrees she holds a bachelor of hebrew literature from the Jewish Theological Seminary and was awarded an honorary doctorate by jts. She is a trustee of the Jewish Museum in on the board of directors of the Jewish Book Council and is a contributing editor to two jewish feminist publications. She was at the forefront of the struggle to web women ordained as rabbis in the conservative movement. Finally, francine, i hope you know that you and your endlessly charming husband, stan, are so dear to my wife judy and me, so im honored to introducing out. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming the author of lioness, Francine Klagsbrun [applause]. Okay. Thank you, gary. I just love gary turkey is one of the great editors of our time and for me it is such an honor to be introduced by gary and for the jewish week to be cosponsoring this. Gerrit gary has been my editor, my boss for all of these years i have been writing for the jewish week and its been a joy, every single moment of it. I also want to thank the jewish week, cf who does events for the jewish week it was involved in this event and whatever it is it is magic. Whatever she does its magic and i think her for that and i particularly want to thank the people of the Jewish Museum who put this together, nelly benedict to put this together was the person who invited me to speak at the museum and shes been so supportive and the patient with me when i got a little concerned about this event. Jenna weiss, who does public programming and put this program together and let me tell you we are all quite overwhelmed by the number of people here and jenna has managed to do it graciously and and that sure, director of communication running the whole shebang in terms of Public Events and anything that has to do with the public and i thank you for your kindness and your support, also. I have to do a quick shout out to carolyn who is the Guardian Angel of all writers and a dear friend of mine. This project began because of carol. It was her idea. She met with me every month for lunch in all the years ive i was writing it to say what you up to now and she read the manuscripts at least twice and has been so wonderfully supportive and i also want to thank my beloved editor who never said what are you up to now and just accepted i was where i was and its been a joy to work with you. I also went to thank peter, the current director of the Jewish Book Council. Naomi is here and shes filled with wonderful ideas and she keeps giving me ideas of things i should do with this book and i thank you, naomi. So, i went to also thank all of you, so many of you for coming and im very touched and im grateful to all of you. Former Prime Minister of israel, golda meir, is visiting this country on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the launching of israel bond and this is her only Network Television interview and we welcome you to our country and to our programming. Thank you. Racism is equated with ideas and you must also state that its equated with jews and what they did at the un was to give a legal stamp to antisemitism. By its right name. That is serious. There are antisemites in the world and now its been legalized and to say that zionists are racists that israel is a racist state, then its almost necessary to destroy that state, i mean, its given legal sanction one for antisemitism which affects every jew in the world and number two for anything the arab countries may want to do against israel. I chose that from an interview in 1976, shortly after the un had passed its design is an and racism resolution, which it did not resend, by the way, until 1991. I wanted to show you that golda was a person of her own time and also a person of our time. That issue with the un and israels attitude to the un is when that its president prejudice against israel. The word design is a are still used together for the state of israel turk golda would not have objected to criticisms of israel, no what i, but those words that were said then and we still here today so she was in some way very much part of our own time. Of course, she was also part of her own time. Her story has been told before in a summer books, and film, and television in a play on broadway last year, but i felt that she was not given her do and we need to examine her and her time in the depth and breadth so that with the perspective of time we should take another look at golda meir. You know it her own day she was one of if not the most powerful woman in the world, more powerful man many men, so i wanted to know how would we see her today, how should we see her, who was this person . You look at her on the screen and i think many of you have memory of this little old lady sometimes grandmotherly looking, but what she really . Well, what i found in research is that she was a very complex person. She was a bundle of contradictions. For example, she was the ultimate insider in israeli politics rising through the ranks to become labor minister, foreign minister, Prime Minister and in many ways she was also an outsider. She was a woman in a world that was very much a mans world at the time and it not only that, she was a woman who came from the United States to go to then british mandatory palestine. She was born in russia, but spent her youth in the United States from the time she was eight years old until she was 25. She was the only founder of the state who had done that. She was the only founder who came from a country that was not persecuting its jews jews. She came from a country or her parents and grandparents like mine could really succeed, grow and she could have grown. Who knows, she could have become our first woman president since we havent gotten there yet. So, she was an outsider even know she seemed to be so much inside and that was important to who she was and who she became. She was herself a female, a woman, a nikon for women and in many ways a very modern womans life. She was married, separated from her husband. In her earliest marriage she had an abortion. She often left her children for long time because she was so busy working. She was a single mother and yet she was opposed to the feminist movement of the 1970s that so many of us here were involved in and thats not to say she didnt care about women. She cared about womens issues on her own level turk for example, when the every little decision has to get discussed, so one of the decisions that had to be made was how do you address members of the parliament. Here in the us we say senator from new york, for example. In israel they dont vote geographically, so how do you address them . The men in the cabinet in their great wisdom said well, why dont we use a system thats used in synagogues particularly orthodox synagogues where and men are called to bless the torah you say for example isaac the son of jacob, so why do we identify them in members by their fathers names and golda said i think we should identify them by their mothers name. Why dont we say isaac, the son of rachel. They put the whole thing aside. They didnt discuss it any further. On a more serious level, when she was labor minister she pushed literally pushed through legislation that protected women , that protected work working women in particularly. When she was hospitalized having a baby to pay maternity leave, so she cared about women and she cared about womens issues, but she was very opposed to the Womens Movement in the 1970s, which i sort of hold that a little bit against her. She said those crazy bra burning women, part of that was because golda was a socialist and she had this vision of socialism taking over society and everyone would be under that blanket of socialism and no one would need a special movement because everyone everyone that needs would be taken care of and that was one reason. The other reason was simply her ambition. She knew in her mans world identifying would not care her where she wanted to go so we might note that even Women Leaders today dont call themselves feminists, but they dont say those crazy bra burning women. Even so, the interesting contradiction here is that the Womens Movement adopted her as their icon. I remember going to ms. Magazine and some of you will remember going to the ms. Magazine office because i was editing free to be you and me reading a compilation of articles in there on the wall was this big poster with a lovely image of golda and it said but, can she type. [laughter] because that was what people thought women should do in those days. Another contradiction. She was poorly educated and did not have more than a high school degree. She went to Normal School for about a year and dropped out and yet she could speak and even i have notes here, she could speak without notes right to the heart of her audience. Her colleagues said she could read from the phone book and make people cry that she was that effective. Then, another contradiction is she often had that kind of grandmotherly image i mentioned before and she played on it. She liked 2 herself that way at times. When she was interviewed by newspapers, she would talk about her chicken soup recipe. When she mentions her chicken soup recipe one time thousands of people wrote in to get the recipe, so i put it in my book because i thought everyone would want to, but i have to tell you the truth, its nothing much. [laughter]. When he was told that she was oe telephone, that it was a phone call for him and it wasgold da meyer, he said i stand up straight and salute. [laughter] that was the kind of feeling that she conveyed, along with the grandmotherly image. And then finally, the sort of saddest contradiction is that gold da remains revered here in the United States and other countries around the world. But in her own country, in israel, she became a controversial figure. She became controversial for one thing, quite honestly, for sexist reasons, for misogynystic reasons. Men, men who had worked for her when they were young and didnt really like working for this powerful, often difficult woman, after she died really let her have it. And things that she had been confident, well, that became, you know, arrogant. Words that we have heard often applied to women when men dont like them. But thats really only part of the story. The other part, probably the larger part, is that she was the Prime Minister during the yom kippur wars, 1973. Israel won that war, but they lost about 2 of 00 2600 soldiers, thousands more who were wounded. The country was left with a very glum feeling, feeling that he were now vulnerable, and that feeling has remained. And gold da my year was the Prime Minister, and she was held responsible for that. She was born, as i said, in kiev, in 1898. Her older sister was nine years older than she. Between her birth and the birth of shea that, per parents had four other babies, all of them boys. All of them died in infancy. She grew up in milwaukee. Her father went first and then she came with her mother and her sisters in 1906 to milwaukee, wisconsin. And that was something i looked at again and i thought about again. You know, the fact that she grew up in milwaukee and did not grow up in the slums of new york or the tenements of new york had a great effect on her. You know, in those days, as you all now, there were waves of jewish immigrants coming from eastern europe. And the german jews who had come ahead of them in the 1880s, they helped them and starts philanthropy for them but were embarrassed by them. Most of our parents and grandparents, they looked down on them. They thought they were dirty, they were uncouth. And there they were in congregating in cities like new york and chicago, the big cities. So the german jews, there were organizations that they formed. The purpose was to spread these Eastern European jews out so they would not be in only one area, and also they might become assimilated and americanizeed. For the most part, that system did not work. But it did work with goldas father, and he settled in milwaukee. And because she lived in milwaukee, it seems to me that she was a different kind of person than she might have been had she grown up in new york. To be sure, the family was or very poor. They lived in the get toe of mill ghetto of milwaukee. Golda had joined the socialists, and that was reinforced by the atmosphere in her city. Milwaukee was closer to the frontier. She didnt grow up in a tenement. It was poor, but there was a piece of green there, and there was also that frontier feeling, that cando feeling. You work hard enough, you really give your all, and you achieve what you want to achieve. And that was absolutely goldas attitude too. And then there was this optimism. Even america as a whole was still growing. The sense of optimism, of expanding westward. Golda always described herself as an optimist. A jew, she would say, cannot afford the luxury of not being an optimist because of our history. And denver, colorado, goldas sister went to live in denver, and golda joined her for a while, and she met a man named morris meyer soften. Now, morris was a sign painter, but he was very cultured. He loved music. He loved art. He loved books. And golda, who had this small education, this, you know, little not enough of an education, was very taken with that. And as a matter of fact, all her life she was always attracted to the men who were very intellectual and who were very cultured. Yes, she had several lovers. I wrote about three of them, but i know that there were more than that. She was very good looking as a young woman. She was very charismatic. Her friend regina said that of every five men who met her, four of them fell in love with her. And this time morris fell in love with her, and golda fell in love with morris. At some point morris mother came to visit and meet goldas family. I have letters that nobody has had that i got, whatever, through the family. [laughter] and i have a letter from one of morris sister to another sister. And in this letter she says that their mother really did not think very highly of goldas family. Not only that, she did not think this golda was worthy of her son, morse. [laughter] morris. Now, as you know, they went on to live in palestine, and morris could never find himself. He really wasnt a zionist at heart. He went because of golda. He could never find himself. He really was a failure in many ways, andgold da meyer came who she was. So i think we have to think twice about being critical of mothersinlaw. [laughter] also i think now you should just keep her name, people always mix up her name. She was Golda Meyerson through all the years she was labor minister, but bengurion insisted with everybody that she he bray size her name. They went to british mandatory palestine in 1921. And that was Something Else i thought of reconsidering. I thought what did they know about the land they were going to. They knew it would be hard living. They didnt know how harsh it was going to be. They didnt know there was going to be desert all over, they would have to build on sand. But more than that they knew that there was another People Living in that land. They were not stupid, they knew how the arabs had responded to a partition. They knew there was another People Living there, but they really, truly believed that after a time they would be welcomed by the arab population. They were bringing western ways. They were bringing their know how. They were bringing technology. And they thought that would be welcomed. Well, we know that didnt happen. And so they made a big mistake about that. The other mistake they made was at that time there was a big yiddish movement in the states. There was a big emphasis that people should speak yiddish, that thats the language of the jewish people. And golda and her friends, she had grown up speaking yiddish, but she had never written it was she because she didnt go to school very much. So she really struggled. Well, when they came to palestine, they discover discovered, as you all know, that the language of the jewish part of the land was hebrew. Hebrew was rediscovered. It was being reinvented. And they only knew yiddish. Golda and morris had settled in [speaking in native tongue] for a while at the beginning, so golda very quickly showed her leadership qualities. And she was sent to a conference in tel aviv, and she spoke in yiddish because thats what she knew. And then she was sent to a conference, the First Agricultural settlement in palestine, and she began to speak in yiddish. And one of the pioneers, a well known man, pioneer, got up and stopped her, and he said in tel aviv it was bad enough, but here, no you dont speak in yiddish. And poor golda was hue mill humiliated because she didnt know hebrew, and she had to continue in yiddish. She did learn hebrew, but she was never proficient at it. She never mastered it the way she had english, for example. And, you know, iban would say, okay, its bad enough that she only has a vocabulary of 2,000 words, but why doesnt she at least use the 2,000 words . [laughter] she sort of got back at him. He was very educated, when she was told he speaks five languages, golda says, well, so does the waiter at the king david hotel. [laughter] morris hated it. He didnt like communal living. They moved to jerusalem where they had two children. They were abjectly poor. They were so poor, some of you know this about goldas past, they were so poor that golda had to take in wash and wash the laundry of the local nursery school. And then around 1930s she was offered a job by a man named david, a job to work with the Women Workers Council which was part of the Jewish Federation of labor. He was a very important person in that. David became her lover later, and of all the men she ever knew, i believe he was truly the love of her life. But she began working there. Its counterpart in the United States was the pioneer women which today is called [speaking in native tongue] and she worked there for a few years. She was traveling back and forth, back and forth. It was so so difficult. She had to leave her children, sometimes for nine months at a time, but she did it. And she wrote about how difficult it was, but she did it. She really exhausted herself, but she continued doing that. And then she began to move up in the Jewish Agency which was the quasigovernment of the free state israel. In 1938 this was a turning point there was a turning point she would say later in her own attitude. In 1938 hitler had already come into power. And this was before the final solution of killing all the jews. But jews were becoming refugees, thousands upon thousands of jews were becoming refugees. And Franklin Roosevelt convened a convention at avion which was on the shores of lake geneva. He invited 32 nations to come to this convention to talk about the refugees, who could take the refugees in. What could they do. Of the 32 nations, 31 of them could not find any way to take in the refugees. This one, well, we had filled our quota. Another one, well, theyre all professionals. We dont have room for that many professionals. Another one, they just didnt want the jews. The only one who offered to take in the jews was castro, the dominican republic. But they offered to take in the jews to work land that was really not workable. At the end of this conference, golda was part of a News Conference that took place. She wasnt an actual delegate because there was not a state yet, but she was there as a sort of dell gate. And delegate. And she was part of a News Conference. And im going to read you what she said. Quote, there is only one thing i hope to see before i die, and that is that my people should not need expressions of sympathy anymore. What golda later said was she looked back on that, she said it really was a turning point where she came to understand that she had never understood before that jews have to fend on themselves. Depend on themselves, and they cant really ever depend completely on anybody else. In 1948 the partition had been done, the u. N. Had partitioned the land into a jewish and an arab state, and bengurion, who was the head of the free state israel, bengurion understood that as soon as a state would be declared, the arabs, sowning arab countries surrounding arab countries would probably invade. And he desperately needed money. And this is a session that is excerpted from my book, but i have something more to tell you about it. Anyway, he needed money, and he had sent an emissary to the United States to get money, but this man came back with nothing more than 7 million which was really not a lot. And then bengurion thought he would go himself. But for him to leave the country at that point would have been nuts. So he sent golda, because he trusted her. She came on a freezing day. It was in the middle of a storm. She heard that there was a luncheon going on in chicago with the wellheeled jews from the Jewish Federation, and she knew she had to speak will to those people. So she came, and henry montour was the executive director of the uja, and he said in recalling all this he wrote well, he actually was taped. He said, you know, women in america knew who golda was because shed worked for these womens organizations. I just thought she was a [speaking in native tongue] i mean, that was as much as i knew about her. And then she came, he said, without a dime in her pocket. And she said to me, i have to raise money. So he set it up he didnt have much faith in it, but he set up for her to speak at this luncheon in chicago, and she did. Her knees were trembling. She was terrified that she was not going to get any place, she would feel like a fool. But in that same straightforward way without a drop of makeup on her face, with her hair pulled back and parted in the middle, she spoke from her heart, and she told them why they needed money. And she ended by saying you cannot decide whether we will fight. We will fight even if we have to use stones. What you can decide, you american jews, is whether we shall win or the mufti will win, whether we shall win or the arabs will win. That, you can decide. And when she finished speaking, there was a kind of an electric current that went through the room. And people then gave her a standing ovation and almost threw money at her. They were pledging, everybody pledging all over the place. And that was wonderful. But the next day reality set in, and this is the part that very few people do now. I believe, im not sure hes here, but robert morganthau, beloved District Attorney was going to be in the audience tonight with his wife, lucinda frankings. I dont know if they are or not yes. Somebody there they are. Okay. Heres the story. [laughter] i wanted you to hear, i wanted all of you to hear it. Henry morgenthau, roberts father, had been the secretary of treasury under Franklin Roosevelt. But at this time, he was chairman of the board of the uja. And the next day after this Great Success in chicago, golda went to new york, and she met with the uja leaders. They sat around a table eating kosher deli sandwiches and discussing whether they can help golda raise this money. And, again, these very proper uja wealthy men said, no, we cant do that. Uja is a philanthropic organization, we cannot raise money to give arms to israel. And Henry Morgenthau said, im going to quote him now, if Golda Meyerson says they have to have arms and we are the only place where they can get the money to buy the arms, im afraid, gentlemen, you will have to accept my decision. We are going to include Golda Meyerson in this years fundraising campaign. And they did. And gold an golda and some of the people from uja went around the country, and they raised 50, 50, million dollars, that they split, and she came home with 25 million for bengurion to buy arms. Im going to take a sip of water, if you dont mind. There are other incidents in her life that became famous. Some of you with may have remembered that she dressed up as an arab, a woman, to go meet with King Abdullah to try to convince him not to join the 1948 war against israel. She was not successful. Years later she had at least 30 secret meetings with his grandson, king hussein of jordan, and she wanted to do deals to trade land for peace. That didnt work out either. She, soon after the state was declared, golda was the first ambassador to the soviet union. At that time nobody knew what the condition of soviet jews was. They were repressed, stalin was in charge, and everyone was supposed to be soviet man, you know, loyal to mother russia. The russians had supported partition, a state of israel, because they thought it was a way for them to get some more power in the middle east. But russian jews were the jews of silence. And so golda came there, and she wanted very much to meet russian jews, and she somehow wasnt allowed to. But on roche san that and yom kippur and day of atonement, she went to the synagogue in moscow, and when she came out, thousands upon thousands of jews came out to greet her, to touch her, to call her golda, to give her notes to slip into her pocket to send home somehow to help them. And somebody pushed her into a taxiing cab for her own safety, and all she could think to do was put her head out the cab window and say thank you for having remained jewish. And there were other things that are not so well known. She had complex relationships with all the men whose names you know; bengurion, shimon peres, itzhak rah p bean. That whole group were always fighting with each other, and yet there they were, they created the state of israel. When she was labor minister, she became labor minister in 1949, and aside from the laws and legislation about women, she managed to push through also a very progressive Insurance Law that became the basis of israels Social Security system now and their welfare state now. And she worked on housing of the immigrants who came [inaudible] very temporary housing. It was a very trying job, but she loved it. Golda herself lived very modestly. When you think of her in comparison with some of the World Leaders today, she lived in a little house i mean, aside from official residences she lived in a little house outside of tel aviv. I visited there several times because i got to know her family. It was a little house, and it had just a very small living room. And on one side was a fireplace, on the other side was a couch and two chairs, two soft chairs, easy chairs. And her son told me that the chair golda sat in was this one over here because it was closest to the kitchen. And she would go into the kitchen, and she would make tea and cookies for visiting dignitaries as well as the family. And she loved that house. You know, she each, when she became Prime Minister, she would shut the lights out before she walked out the door, because thats what you do. Youre frugal. She made no effort to benefit her family or to give them any extra gain on her becoming Prime Minister. When she became foreign minister in 1956, there were many things that she did as foreign minister, but i want to mention just one thing. She met with president kennedy in 1962, and he said something to her that no american leader had ever said to an israeli leader before. He had met bengurion. They didnt like each other. Bengurion said, oh, hes just a politician. And he didnt like bengurion with his burning eyes and his big accent. But golda liked him very much. She saw him as this young president. She was very taken with that, and he was very taken with her maternal aspects and how warm and she could be very warm and grandmotherly. So what he said to her was the United States has a special relationship with israel comparable to our relationship with great britain. And if israel is ever attacked, we will be there to support her. Now, this had not been the relationship between the United States and israel before or that. Before that. But under golda this relationship really developed, and she made the embassy in washington one of the most important embassies of all the embassies there. She really developed that relationship. And she always remembered that before she left president kennedy, he took her hand, he looked into her eyes, and he said to her, dont worry, mrs. Mair, nothing will happen to israel. And that meant a great teal to her. When kennedy was assassinated, lyndon johnson, of course, became president. And at a reception when he met golda, he said i know you have lost a friend, but you will find another friend in me. Golda became Prime Minister in 1969, and now we are back to the i dont mean cup purr war. Yom kippur war. There was a feeling of war in the air, but that kept threatening war. But the generals, goldas generals were so sure that wasnt going to happen, they kept reassuring her. Theres a low probability of war. That phrase, low probability of war, became so common that there was a book with the name of that phrase. And they kept reassuring her that even if there were a war, israel had been in the 67 war and conquered all those lands within six days. So even if there were a war, israel would win it. And golda had to accept it because they were her generals, and she accepted what they said. But very close to when that war broke out, one day the kgb, they had picked up a sign from the kgb that hundreds of advisers from the soviet union who had been in russia and in syria were leaving in a great hurry. Now, you remember that was the cold war era, and russia and syria were clients of russia, sorry, egypt and syria were clients of russia, and israel was a client of the United States. So these advisers, russian advisers in syria and egypt, were [inaudible] and golda had such a gut feeling that something has got to be wrong. Why are they doing that . But, no, no, her generals reassured her, not to worry about it. Maybe they think were going to attack them. Theres a low possibility of war. And then, of course, the war broke out, and it was very difficult times. As i said is, in the end they lost so many soldiers and semi wounded that so many wounded that the scars of that war are still felt in israeled today. And for golda, it was a great tragedy. She said i will never again be the person i was before that war. Even so, during the war [inaudible] with his black patch, the great general, he fell apart completely. But golda was a rock. She held the country together. She made military decisions she didnt even know she would know how to make, and she was calm, and that helped them with the outcome of the war. Still, there was great anger in the country. There were protests against dion that then spilled over to golda, and in 1974 she resigned. But even then during the period in which before the next person, rabin who took over for her, but during the period before rabin took over while golda was Still Holding office until he would take office, she negotiated with Henry Kissinger. She had earlier negotiated for the separation of troops between egypt and israel. In this period she negotiated with Henry Kissinger on the separation of troops between syria and israel, and it was very, very tough negotiations. They were really at each over. Some of you know this. At one point kissinger said to golda in anger, mrs. Prime minister, i am an american first, a secretary of state second and a jew only last. And she said, well, thats okay, henry. In hebrew we read from right to left. [laughter] she finally resigned in 1974, and a journalist who was there pictured her. She walked away from the seat of power as Prime Minister holding her bag. Golda always held her handbag. Her legs, her thick legs stooped, and nobody said anything to her. This was the end of an era, he said, and thats what it was. And even then, even at the end of the era, even then when golda was no longer in office, she took part in everything. She met president ford, she was still raising money, she was giving itzhak rabin advice all the time. She was something. When sadat came to israel in 1977, she was at the airport to greet him along with other dignitaries. And when he met her, he said ive wanted to meet you for such a long time, and she said, why didnt you come . [laughter] and he said, the time was not yet ripe. He had needed this war to restore arab pride that had been so badly beaten during the 67 war. Golda died in 1978. She never saw the final peace treaty with, between israel and egypt. She died at the age of 80. She had been fighting a terrible lymphoma for 15 years and kept it secret from everybody. So golda mair had many flaws. She could be rigid, she could be tough, she could be sarcastic. She didnt totally understand the jews that came from arab lands. She was so committed to the soviet j well, jews, she certainly did not understand palestinian nationalism, nor did most people at that time. Everybody was dealing with the states. Egypt, lebanon, jordan and so on rather than with the palestinian people. But golda was a leader. Gold that gold la my year gave up much of her family life and her health for that vision. And now i would like you to hear her say it before i close. Do you have any words of wisdom for other people who have retired and find themselves in perhaps a similar position to yours . I have no words of wisdom. All i can say is that every person should find the thing in life which is most vital to him, outside of his own family life. But in addition to that, there must be something that one wants in the world. You know, in hebrew the word [speaking in native tongue] have exactly the same letters. Only one, one place they change. But the same letters. And is ive interpreted them, and im not a hebrew scholar, that only one who dreams a great dream finds thats important enough and sometimes essential to fight for the realization of that treatment. I pity people that dont have dreams, great dreams of great things to come. And i believe in them. I believe that the face of my people depends on sovereignty reestablished. Mrs. Meir, at 78 you still have your dreams, and perhaps thats the secret of your greatness. Shalom and [speaking in native tongue] golda meir had a great dream. She was willing to fight for that dream, and she achieved it; a homeland for the jewish people. Thank you very much. [applause] we have time for questions, so ill be happy to take questions. There are microphones yes. Were going to come around with two microphones, so just raise your hand high so we can see you, but i see one right here. I just wondered about her relationship with Franklin Roosevelt. Im sorry, say it again . I wonder what her relationship was with Franklin Roosevelt. She didnt have a relationship with Franklin Roosevelt, but she did have a relationship with eleanor roosevelt. They were good friends. And she said that actually, if bob was still here, it was his father, again, who introduced Henry Morgenthau introduced golda to eleanor roosevelt. And golda wrote that whenever she was in town, in washington which was frequently if eleanor was in town at the same time, they would manage to have tea together. They were really good friends. But they didnt have a lot of time together. But that was the relationship with her. Other . Why was, why was she not alert to the attack in 1973 . What was the reasoning for her being im sorry, i cant hear you. Why was she not alert to the attack in 1973 by the various arab cups . Why was she not alerted to the attacks . Yes. Well, its really sort of a longish story. You want me to tell you the longish story . Okay. There was a spy, some of you may know this this is a long story. There was a man named [speaking in native tongue] who was a very highlevel government official. And he volunteers, nobody knows exactly why, to be a spy for israel. And after much examination, much investigation, they accepted him. He was called the angel, the source, you know, just known as the inlaw. And he had warned them that the war was going to break out. He had warned them at the last minute, he had warned them the war was going to break out at 6 00 that evening. And so they were ready. They were going to mobilize the troops. You know, israel doesnt have a standing, really a large standing army. Its army is all of the reserves, people who are trained all the time, you know, after school. So they were going to mobilize the reserves. They were going to be ready. And then the attack came at 2 00 in the afternoon. So they did not expect it at that time. They were not ready for it. The troops were not mobilized, the arms were not in place, and golda said im so angry they surprised us after all. Thats what happened. Other questions . Yes. Oh i think i can be heard no, no, just so the people, everyone can hear you. [laughter] okay. If im wrong about this, im going to be stoned, but somewhere i remember hearing and i want to ask you wasnt it that same Henry Morgenthau wait, im sorry . Was not it the same Henry Morgenthau who discouraged fdr from admitting the ship full of . No. And encouraging him to send the ship back . No. [inaudible conversations] Henry Morgenthau was on the side of the jews in roosevelts administration. Do you know who it was . Thats not part of my golda story. [laughter] okay, thank you. Tell us a little bit about her family, her children. Oh, you want me to tell you about the children . Ill tell you what happened yesterday. Yesterday i was in dallas, texas, speaking. And at the end of my talk, people were buying books, and somebody calm over to me, and he said im amnon. Okay, and then i realized he was goldas grandson who lived in the United States who i had interview ised by phone. I was so touched that he came to my talk. But her son and her daughter, her son was a cellist, sarah lived on a kibbutz, and she was very proud of that. They so resented their mothers leaving them when they were young the way she did. But when they got older and is when i met them, they defended her to the hilt. You could not say one negative word about particularly to her son who was the one who most resented her earlier. But they were very nice. I really got to know them and like them. And i promised them, her son said at the beginning were not going to cooperate with you because, you know, we dont know what youre going to write. And i said, look, i promise you that i will write a fair book. I am not going to whitewash golda. There will be her flaws, which there are in this book, but i will be as fair as i can be. And he accepted that. And i would see him most times i went back and forth to israel many times to intervow people, and id see him most times. He had three sons, amnon is the one in america, one of them is giddi, a harpsichordist, the other is a researcher. Her daughter had a daughter who was mentally not well and a son whos a terrific man. And then goldas secret was that her sons first wife gave birth to a child who had downs syndrome. Golda wanted then he split with that wife, and golda had wanted them to institutionalize the child, but that woman, whose name was hannah, wanted to raise her herself. And golda, there was no relationship between hem. I dont believe golda ever saw that baby, but she helped support that child as she was growing up, and shes in a special home now. Anybody else . Oh. Thank you. I have a last one. I believe the, i believe the play goldas ball balcony was at whether she would use atomic bombs in the 73 war. Could you talk about that please . Yeah. The play was all wrong. [laughter] i spent a great deal of time really investigating that whole nuclear thing. I interviewed Henry Kissinger about it, i i interviewed James Schlesinger who was then the secretary of defense about it at great length because of that play. The fact of the matter is dion had suggested using unconventional weapons. Golda and the rest of the cabinet absolutely said, no, they would not do that. They were absolutely opposed to that. I think that was a very important example for when a country has, a small country has nuclear ability but is responsible. They were responsible. However, dion was able and not that this was bad. By the way, i interviewed Henry Kissinger about that, and i kept saying, yeah, but goldas balcony says. And he said its absolutely and, you know, you dont always believe everything people in kissingers position tell you, but i did believe it this time. He said its absolutely untrue. Had they threatened us as, you know, had places, had they threatened that they would use their Nuclear Capacity if we did not help them, i could not make that decision. Israel at that time and even now has this attitude of opacity where you dont know do they really have it, everyone knows they do, but that was their attitude. And if they had threatened us, he said i would have had to take it to the president himself. It would have been very bad for israel. However, dion did do something which was not bad. He somehow, and i dont know the details and im sure nobody else, i dont think anybody does, but he they had what were called jericho missiles that could hold nuclear warheads. And he positioned them in a way not to threaten the United States, but that egypt understood that they had those weapons. Because at that point the soviet union apparently was beginning to send some Nuclear Weapons to egypt. So James Schlesinger said to me as far as i know,dion did that, and he did the right thing. And i figure when the american secretary of defense says as far as i know, it means he knows. [laughter] he said dion did the right thing, he had to let egypt know where they stand. But this was not a threat to the United States. Maybe we could take one last question. Okay. How did you decide on the title of the book . Its a quote who has the book . I always forget the exact quote. It comes from a oh, there it is. No, theres a quote, the epigram. Theres a quote from the book of ezekiel that says your mother was a lioness among the lions. Im not saying the exact words, protecting her cubs. And i thought that was just really fit golda so well. She would kill for her or people, and she would protect them. Now, from a feminist point of view, i really agonized with that because i dont like using the diminutive of something. In hebrew theres a different word for a woman a female lion than we have. Theres a separate word. So i really decided, and my editor who loved that name when i kept saying, yeah, but, shed say lets do it. And we did it. And so far weve got very positive response to the name. Great. [applause] so thank you all very, very much. Speaking of the book, theres a lot of us in here, so copies are available for purchase near the door. If you have a copy youd like signed, please line up in front of the stage to get your book signed. Thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] heres a look at some of the best books of the year according to National Public radio. Joan didion shares her journal entries from a southern road trip in 1970 and her time reporting on the patty hearst trial in 1976 in south and west. In ali, biographer jonathan [inaudible] recalls the life of former heavyweight champion and activist muhammad ali. Robert [inaudible] ing explores the political acumen of president franklin d. Roosevelt. In the gulf, university of florida professor jack davis provides a history of the gulf of mexico region and reports on impact that oil, commercial fishing and tourism have had on its environment. And wrapping up our look at the best books of 2017 according to National Public radio is pulitzer prizewinning journalist Helene Cooper on the life of ellen johnsonsirleaf, the first democraticallyelected female president in african history. All across liberia, young women were rivetted by the story of this dissident whos standing up to the men running the country. Eventually, after a year and under pressure from womens groups in the international community, doe released ellen, but he had created a monster. The stage was now set for the revolution that would overturn gender politics in west africa. But the men still had one more act to play, and it was a dooz dooz doozy. I could stand up here for hours going on about what Charles Taylor did to liberia, but that needs to be the subject of its own book. The tribal war he started, the child soldiers, the hundreds of thousands of people killed, the wars he launched in sierra leone and the ivory coast. His forces went on a raping and killing spree that spared almost no one. Once again, as they had so many times before, it was the liberian women that carried the country through. While the men were waging war, the women in liberia all became market women, traveling by foot to the border to get food to bring back to a starving population. They had the babies of their rapists in the forests, strapped those babies on their backs and went back into their market stalls or sat on the side of the road selling oranges. And they bided their time. When the war finally ended, they made their power play. In 2005, 12 years before pantsuit nation became a secret Facebook Group and im with her buttons and bumper stickers, the women of high beer ya held a liberia held a master class in how to get a female elected president. [applause] of these authors have appeared on booktv. You can watch them on our web site, booktv. Org. [inaudible conversations] get my steps in there. Thank you guys all so much for coming. Thank you for coming to the Wilson Center through the snow, through the sleet, whatever its doing out there, and on star wars day. Really appreciated. [laughter] i have the distinct pleasure of welcoming you to the woodrow Wilson Center and the launch of the book, designing