Public service by americas Cable Television companies that is brought to buy your cable or satellite provider. Up next on afterwards, mark levine argues against expansion of the federal government in his book, rediscovering americanism. He offers his thoughts on what the country must do to return to what the founders intended. Host congratulations on another bestseller. Its good to be on the set. Usually im on the phone talking to. Rediscovering americanism in the tierney of progressivism. I found it a deeper, scholarly water history, Letter Research and excellent contrast between the principles and values that are essentially american in the ideas and motives of progressives. One thing that hit me in the first chapter was what we call conservativism is really americanism. We wouldve been better off if we name the whole idea. Were trying to conserve those values that made us so unique and prosperous. What is americanism too . Thats a great point. And thats my point in the book too. We have a superficial discussion i said lets figure out what it is people talk about populism nationalism, so High Research and dug into this. The founders told me where to go. Look at aristotle and cicero and even some of the contemporaries, adam smith and lindenberg and so forth. What is this term americanism mean . Its interesting is even though they didnt agree on every nuance there were agreements the four was war was fought over americanism. Essentially will get into it the core issue is that we see in the declaration of independence. When people read it they go over some critical words like natural law and laws of nature. From my experience it was never taught or discussed it, that was the core. The so issue of americanism is important to understand. Its under attack and being devoured by this other movement. Americanism is the most formal consensus position of the founding. There they were at war with britain i wanted to make a public declaration for the entire world. So the colonies and states but the second Continental Division and debated this. There are several drafts that the original was jefferson. But there were other declarations. One before that was the virginia declaration of rights. Which jefferson borrowed from. Then you had the pennsylvania declaration written mostly by benjamin franklin. Almost identical referring to natural law and Property Rights, even happiness part of the declaration. Im hoping when youre done with chapter one your excited and inspired and invigorated by the most fascinating family ever. In the Second Chapter you provide a contrast of the progressive idea under various names. The idea, history of philosophers you get into the third chapter. They say progressivism is about equality. Its about governing based on the will of the people. You point out its completely the opposite of that. Talk about progressivism. Where is americanism is about the individual, its about creating a society that nurtures and protects this circle of liberty. It has a Civil Society c can function. Laws that are predictable and stable you dont molest her dominate the individual versus progressivism its an ideology with their marks, hegel, russo, or others. It requires the individual to surrender to the state. In the state buses if you do that it will provide for you. It will ensure youre taking care of i will ensure this gala terry is on. Equality of that sort is tierney. Destroys the nature of the individual, free will. The state becomes very powerful. There was a time when this is theoretical in the 1850s 30s but its not theoretical anymore. These ideas which i prefer the status of theres nothing progressive about it. So its an ideology completely kelter to americanism enter the. Set ideology that i explain because it devouring the purpose of the revolution. If a non shooting counterrevolution with government bureaucrats destroying the basis of the american founding. What could possibly be the motivation for this. The progressive philosophers believe that the central powers going to be better for people, that their motive . Thats interesting. There are the mastermind of the followers followers, people sucked into this ideology i think for the most part its unwitting or selfish thinking get something for nothing or maybe theyre just not men and they reject the society, they attack the for the mastermind i dont give them much. Is 100 years of this ideology has been very leak in detrimental memories this notion to centralized decisionmaking in the hands of professionals people who wish to impose their personal policy beliefs on society whether its a massive bureaucracy or whether it is some other form of opposing effective the matter is, there never done. Even the toaster in your house the government has decided its acceptable. Contrast that with our philosophy americanism. Around, you have so many wonderful things going on in the government attacks you going to Grocery Store to going to the 711 is open 24 going there and get everything you, wine, beer red hot 40000 feet in the year whatever, airconditioned bed, bathrooms for five hours across the country, unfathomable. Government to create that. You flick a switch electricity comes on. Your freshwater, thats americanism. The regulation, the banning and controlling and taxing of them thats progressivism. Host you point out that i suspect you can give that to me the results of the centralized planning has been so abysmal and tragic not just in the u. S. But throughout history see what it does to people, it does not lift up the common man, it oppresses the common man. It creates poverty why cant people see the obvious was keeping americans from understanding that these were so superior to what were dealing with now. First of all if you believe in americanism you believe in the power of the individual. Then you believe in the power of the handful of human beings if human beings are imperfect and we are the why would you want handful controlling the rest, if they make bad decisions than those are push throughout society. That ive made a bad decision for myself and my family we dont even know who really developed it is the biggest mess on the face of the earth we disrupted our Healthcare System. Now, i pointed out because mormor the centralized decisions are being made and you ask a great question, why dont people see this because the endless promise if you just surrender more of your property people want to believe them for some reason people think governmental decisions are noble in the book i talk about many men and john dewey says one of the most important of the progressive intellectuals at the time he made clear that they had to infiltrate this pioneer spirit that we have a modern complex society we just can encourage the individual to be what they want to be. We have to create plans, we can allow them to go off on their own, we have to figure out how to advance society. Of course they turned to marx and hegel and russo, to push an ideology of collectivism and all their idea which they impose on the people through the power centralized government they wrap in the best interest of the public. And when push comes to shove they talk about populism, its all about centralized government making decision and it imposing its will on the population. I dont want to make it too complex. But what we mean by liberty, for the vision sale thats positive what must be good. No, its not. What we mean just look at the bill of rights. Negative liberty. We have liberty and the negatives against government encroaching on our liberty. Is a negative document because it tells what they cannot do but not what it must do. Positive liberty is the government telling people what they can do. So when they say will give you Free Healthcare Free College thats called positive liberty. We know its not free and it could be an economic does. Negative liberty is stop interfering with my life, stop trying to illegally molest me. We understand there needs to be basic lawn rules but beyond that leave us alone. In the book to talk about the confusion between democracy and republicanism. The idea of a republic. Something people are very clear on that. Describe why thats important . The founders of this country feared two things. Centralization, they just bought a monarchy freight and half years and they knew about Central Government. They were well read, aristotle and cicero the saw what happened. Theyre very concerned about centralized government. Look at this Electoral College in the courts are distinct and that you have lifetime appointment. They were dividing this remember, the declaration talks about unalienable rights. Theyre not up for a vote. Doesnt matter what and neighbor thinks her these are godgiven, Eternal Truths are as aristotle called them it universal law. They were concerned about that john adams talk about private Property Rights and he said the country of 10 Million People if it subject to a vote those 2 million will lose their property and you have nothing but the law of the jungle. He rejected it. Didnt reject the consent of the governed. They also rejected nationalism what i explained in the book is some people complain confuse nationalism as americanism. Its americanism were trying to defend. Thats a very good point. We talked about this little bit before the show, the concern that folks dont understand what youre talking about. My observation of progressives that i know some of the masters in some have been coopted as the best idea to help people is to plan for them. Seems the natural default position of humankind is this idea progressivism that the powerful control the powerless. Everyone has a yearning in their heart for freedom, the tendency is for folks to feel like they are being controlled. Americanism to me is more supernatural. When you speak of things such as the creator of natural law of virtue and understanding human nature, were talking about something that requires a lot of education and understanding. For people to constantly push for those ideas and persevere to be vigilant. I think our founders understood that he ever republic if you can keep it and they kept talking about the vigilance of the people. People naturally go towards the centralized power and we have to resist it. What are your ideas on that . You talk that you wrote it so we can resist it. When the country was founded, it was understood by we fought the revolution. We were fighting over healthca healthcare, we were fighting over food stamps, we were fighting over egalitarianism. Were fighting over liberty. It was understood in philadelphia with an once Second Continental Congress and later after the articles of Confederation Field there is an understanding among those men met of natural law and what it meant. What im trying to do is put us in that place, see what theyre thinking and arguing who they were relying on. Why theyre so crucially important. And today its not only the default see only position. You will not find these discussed in any Republican Caucus youll find them being discussed on most talk radio or cable tv. What is happened is the Progressive Movement has succeeded. It has succeeded in resignation throughout society. Through culture and the media through the Republican Party another are democrats understand this. Bernie sanders knows whats going on. Very inarticulate way he may put his views out there but if i were to talk to him today about hegel and marks he would know exactly what im talking about. If i would to talk to some of the republicans they would have no idea what im talking about. These men and women of the left they stand on the shoulders of the progressive intellectuals of 100 years ago there are a handful, certain percentage who know this and are trying to confront this. Usually were attacked and put down within the Republican Party because we see and understand whats going on. The question we raises over too far gone which we need to do to try to pull back because its only going to get worse the coercion in the bullying and centralization were dissident . Jim, i often say will they give us a blueprint and tell us when were done . In other words when will you be done with healthcare and taxes and give us something we can debate but there never done. There never done tormenting the individual of the trajectory is stored increased hypocrisy. So if we lose that one day it will be a sad thing. So we do everything we can through public means Weather Books people read them anymore. Whether its radio or tv, youve done an excellent job we are trying to affect the nature of the Republican Party. These are things that ten years ago nobody wouldve thought of. These are the things we have to do. The progressives in congress, some are well intended but some tend to be masters here they know what they want on healthcare for instance. It doesnt matter if obama care fails, they want centralized element run healthcare and a lot of them believe thats whats best. On the other side, they dont understand how americanism can work, the idea that a free market Healthcare System could create better quality at a lower cost because they dont know how that system works. So its like were fighting something with nothing. Republicans tend to go centralized light. You talk about on the show. I dont think they understand the counterintuitive idea of of adam smith. Millions of people pursuing their own interest creating or positive, better organized society that a few people planning for everybody. On the how you see that, you talk to a lot of people in the show, how do we deal with this argument when people are making laws who dont understand how americanism works. Because we never talk about it. Say to the American People, which handful politicians to think are so smart that they can understand and run the Healthcare System. Almost none are doctors, most none have worked on a hospital, where do they get there expertise from . Nowhere. Third financing and ideology. Theyre trying to impose it on us. We are on the winning side but we never explain to people whats going on. The public resists politician and Big Government but what the progressive does is make promises. The point you make about harmony of interest as adam smith called it the invisible hand, what he meant and went so crucial is people it is not possible for Government Department or agency to know better about those decisions. Its impossible for people, even the most earnest people to know what to do. They cant possibly acquire the knowledge that 320 Million People have an exercise in their lives. So rather than trying to figure it out they take their personal policy preference impose on a free people. It becomes difficult to explain because they been indoctrinated from Elementary School through. The industrial resident pollution was the greatest economic event in history. It creates a mass middle class that we had. It created so many products and services in the prove the quality of life. Yet when you watch documentaries they show you steel mills with airstrikes and people being shot. Socially all these things that take place but they wont show you that the vast majority have their lives increase. It changed the entire face of the united states. Even today we benefit from what was the industrial revolution. They had to create the capital necessary to build the Railroad System and i find it ironic these professors and other scholars of the left are troubled by that. But theyre not troubled by governmental monopoly. In other words businesses alter that become so incredibly successful providing people with goods and services need to be broken up. Government doesnt provide these. The same people the private sector five for the governmental center. And the difference is that government makes laws. Government can put people in prison. There are some positive things developing. The technology has decentralized communication in a lot of ways. Now theres so many ways to communicate with people. In many ways it goes back to the individual. People can access any information in the world. We see that affecting even the media, few Major Networks of the cost of the internet has been decentralized. To think that gives some promise that individuals understand the freedom to have to make their own decisions in choosing their media source, to think that will work its way over into politics with the yearning to make government closer to home . I wish it would. You hear the attacks on social media and this truly diverse and dispersed media platform. I dont like a lot that said about me and social media. So, the point is i think therell be an effort by government to continue to control and give funny names like neutrality when the governments trying to control. Im all for these. But i keep going back to something you said earlier, how do we reach the vast majority of the American People to inspire them to defend their liberty . This is the great question. One thing i discussed in the book is this liberty requires virtue. Liberty without virtue is not liberty. It can be violence, free to do things not appropriate. Virtue and moral moral order, john adams talked about theres a letter in the book were jefferson rights to atoms. Theyre talking about liberty. Jefferson rights this unbelievable letter talking about greece and rome. He says, you know, john, take a look at rome. Cicero, and cato the great republic, even if they could control the government it would have been too late. He said because people lost their virtue. There is nothing that government can create. No governmental system that can save the people who do not want to be saved. Similar to what franklin said is ever trying to create a constitutional system that will allow people to pursue their happiness and interest. The people are not resolute theres nothing we can do about it so we have to be resolute. We have to maintain our virtue. To answer the question, this is what i struggle with. Have we reached the point where we cannot get back . We now overwhelmed in the culture, and politics, and media . With the centralized government, has a become so entrenched in our institution that theres no way to rip it out . We have to do what we can to confront it and debated and explain whats taking place. We have no choice. When people tell me jim is gone too far. I was concerned that dependency on government would take that virtue away. And it would be a objectivity of a vote sure i was definitely concerned about it. We can never give up. When i think its insurmountable when i tell crowds if you want to give up sink about the men sitting at the table signing the declaration of independence. What chance did they have to win . Slim to none. But liberty and virtue are so important to the because they had a clear contrast of what the opposite was. We have not had to live with the type of oppression that would be on a suddenly if i liberty was taken away. Going to continue to fight and do more to come support conservatives on the inside. There is more we can do. Im working on something that fits in with what i hear the states talking about. I just went to a convention in denver with state legislatures. The whole discussion was about federalism. States were realizing they needed to take back control. This is not the complete solution. But it is an element of virtue when people begin to wake up. States have suit against obama care and almost unprecedented pushback. You have been talking for several years and i have not paid much attention to this article five until you came to visit me in my last place of employment and made a compelling play that the founders and we call it the Article Five Convention of states. Can you talk a little bit about article five maybe what your transition has been thinking about it one way and how you think about it today . Something interesting going on in the states. Federalism. As you know its the tenth admin. State conventions wouldnt never ratify constitution or were federal judges dictate to the states. So weve had a complete rewrite of the constitution without a constitutional convention. It happens every day when congress meets apparently its a constitutional convention. When the bureaucracy pushes out 3800 regulations. But other things going on just to lay the foundation. There is some confusion. We have republican government who support federalism until want the government to get in the way. They lobbied the senate not to change obama care because it was found money. Thats a disgrace. They claim to support federalism. They want the money from the federal tax pair on the one hand and then they claim they support federalism. They dont. Then, we have blue states were some cities claim their sanctuary cities and they claim federalism. Immigration is a federal law in the constitution. So they claim nullification because their ends justify the means. Article five states, estate to my conservative friend i thought you support the constitution. He supported except that part of it. Why dont you accept that, article five is simply the method to amend the constitution. There is one method originally that would allow two thirds of the congress to propose an amendment to the state legislators new and a 38 state legislators to ratify. Theres another part. Charts mason, he stood up and said, this can be. What if we have no press of congress or an outofcontrol federal government. Congress will propose anything to fix it, there the problem. The state legislator should have a part of them. So there is an article that has states do what theyve always done. To meet and discuss ideas. It empowers state legislators to have a convention of the state to discuss and propose amendments to the constitution. You have to go through the same ratification process. It takes 38 states to ratify. We have these conservativ conseo say youll have a runway convention. How do you have that 138 state legislators have to prove it. Takes 13 states to stop it. Not only that, i thought we supported federalism. I thought we had faith in the state legislators. So, you are not a federalist if you oppose article five. You dont support the tenth amendment if you oppose this. All this does is allow states to meet on subjects. The state legislator decide how many delegates were there. Some of the amendments have been discussed that i propose to my own book. To limit the size and growth of the government to term limits for Supreme Court justices, to have a debate on these issues because if we actually believe theres going to be some kind of reform coming out of washington that is built walls around itself to prevent the public from having input its not going to happen. I have empathy for the critics of article five because i was one myself. I had not studied it. I came to washington believing we could solve the problem. I came in 99. Note to people far harder to restrain spending and balance the budget. The late 90s we talked about balancing the budget the one youre pretended to balance it by borrowing from Social Security and other things. Now the president sends a budget over and it doesnt really balance, if you talk about balancing the budget ten years even Republican Leadership will say you are extreme. I took the time after you came look at article five. It is short and simple. It gives the country to ways, one is not radical in fact, when people say we could ever run away convention the first thing i sayest we already have a Runaway Congress and courts, the chances of 38 states taking away their own rights are slim to none. Its not going to happen. The weight set up we have advocated the Article Five Convention with three subject matter areas, restrain the government fiscally, things like balancing the budget but that alone want to good the federal government is trying to run all areas of our lives. We have to restrain the jurisdiction over the states. Things like managing schools are healthcare, things they dont need to do. I continue to be a believer in term limits. I think its an active mercy to make sure no congressman stays here more than 12 years. Twelve states have already done this. Ive been meeting with states last 12 months. If you ask a person supposed to say you think this is not a good idea to think congress is bound to come to the conclusion that only two ways that will stop while one is the last School Called to put on limits, the copy runway. Have come around to your point of view and have been speaking about it everywhere have a chance. Optimistic that a lot of things you talk about to pursue this article it will educate americans what damage has been done and what are founders envisioned as a solution. Even talking about it longer than i have. How do you see the progress . We have 12 states though most of the city. Very quietly done for theres millions of grassroots advocates. Think of a more american approach to something going on, file not extra constitutional. Youre trying to use the constitution to save the constitution. There is nothing more positive than encouraging state legislators. Heres the thing. I looked at and i said, you have a duty under the federal constitution to help your country. You have more power than congress under the federal constitution if you step up and help your country. The centralization of government we live in a post constitutional time and most of what the government does is this is exactly what thes work. So they write books and give speeches about the tenth amendment centralization, say, okay its good article five of the cantu that kids will have a Runaway Convention i cant even imagine a way that we would have a Runaway Convention. Ive thrown in a number of proposals and thats good. The people need to understand the constitution does provide a way for reining in the Central Government and the courts, this is why the progressive right the editorials the ninth of republican among them they reject us because it takes power away. I think the time has come, the most are responsible for americas politicians at the state level to believe the status quo is going to work for the country. Good news is that you have those done it congress not see this as a political process we talk about americanism and decentralization of power, not necessarily what is decided but who decides who decides how you live. Gets back to the negative and positive liberty argument. What were talking about you could put under the negative liberty is is telling the government clearly cannot do serious cannot expand authority in the states. So the idea well have a Runaway Convention that takes away our rights is not within the subject matter of the call. So i feel more secure in this process. I feel like it needs to happen relatively quickly. We need to make the case, the constitution is the governing manifestation either people believe in their own inalienable rights were born with these studies Eternal Truths it doesnt matter, universal law, either you believe that is human being part from government bureaucracy, tv in hollywood there certain unalienable rights americanism is about yes yes we do. Right from wrong, good from evil, the ten commandments, the Eternal Truth is you can leave in kansas or france, how do you know . How is it that a reasonable person in france or kansas know the same thing . How do they know right from wrong forget about the title of the golden in this post to kill people, commit adultery, how do people know, not because somebody passes along and aristotle calls universal law that is opposed to law. Many of these men sydney who is hugely influential lock feared for his life, all these men wrote about these things facing one for ms. Tierney or another. And thats the people the founders relied on thats not taught in our schools. The things that youre talking about are foundational all of this is been bundled into this religious and separated from the operation of government. We know thats not whats intended. But were no longer allowed to talk about that in the context of the public said sector the constitution were religious men. Theyre all religious men. Im not aware of any atheist but it doesnt matter. Its irrelevant. The constitution doesnt mention a specific religion. Doesnt even mention god. Reason my you look at this about not establishing a religion is because the men who met in philadelphia believe in the judeochristian set of values. They did not want to impose their views on people so they created a very tolerant society. What i say is you dont have to be religious or believe in anything, you get to benefit from the society regardless and thats okay. People said to me the laws of nature and natures fall what if im an atheist you can have a debate work comes from you can believe in a moral order and universal law, aristotle didnt talked about it. So yes you can and you should. Will have a few minutes left. And if we covered everything that you think is important. They believe the last few minutes to not only whats important to americanism but what we need to do about it as citizens. I say this from time to time, if we leave the battle of ideas to the Academic Senate election to lose everything because like it or not academics and intellectuals went out. They control education have influence on politicians and culture. Its not the grassroots. In terms of what kind of society want to live thats often made by debates. We cannot leave the battle of ideas to the academics because we know it most of the ideas are. Inasmuch as you can about americanism of progressivism c can tell your neighbors and friends we can self educate the nation. And despite the domination, hollywood politics academic is to have about half of americans who continue to vote for the side the create more liberty. If we can inspire people like ideas you have in the book of the america will step up again and demonstrate their virtue. Thank you for the for writing the book of what you do every day. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a public Service AmericasCable Television companies the spreadsheet today by your cable or satellite provider. Washington journal, live every day with theres some policy issues that impact too. Well talk about Digital World war. Watch cspans washington journal, live at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on friday morning. Join the discussion. The cspan bus tour continues its 50 capitals tour in january with stops in raleigh, columbia, atlanta, montgomery. Will speak with state officials during our live program. Follow the tour and join us at 9 30 a. M. Eastern first stop in raleigh, north carolina. Roxanne gaze memoir, hunger discusses obesity, body image, and the lack of Public Acceptance of obese people. She talked about the book a in new york. This is 40 minutes