Hour by to think theo witnesses for taking time of a busy schedules to be here. We are appreciative of that. First and foremost, let me reiterate there is no place for Sexual Harassment in our society especially in congress. Period. And one case of Sexual Harassment is one case to many. The speaker of the house, paul ryan task of this committee with extensive review and we take that responsibility very seriously to hold ourselves as a higher standard that we are worthy of the trust by the constituents since the last hearing on November November 14th it surfaced about the related settlements of the rising under the Congressional Accountability Act these issues not only is it is time with the appropriate for the committee to review the policy goals and what we need to do to evaluate with the bipartisan goal of zero tolerance the Congressional Accountability Act has not been reviewed since 1995 to update the policies and procedures it requires all house members including paid and unpaid it until it and turns to complete with antidiscrimination training every year as well as require to notice the employee rights and protections the next logical step is a close review to identify and evaluate what is needed to ensure we are looking at all congressional employees this hearing plays an Important Role of the extensive review with be insight from our Witnesses Today to help inform us puppis make those policy choices. , to take this opportunity to thank our Speaker Paul Ryan for tasking our committee with this important issue and also the Ranking Member bob brady for his commitment to this issue having the housework in a bipartisan manner natalie is citys central but what people expect. Aisle afford to hearing from each witness and with that i will yield to the Ranking Member. Thanks for calling this hearing today on this bipartisan matter the you are approaching this issue. Also our witness for the House Employment Council i appreciate the professional and nonpartisan way you approach your jobs and thank you for being here a second time. Since the last hearing of the with colleagues to better understand how we can approve this legislation but most importantly met with the survivors of Sexual Harassment and assault we need to improve the process and change the culture of this place and that must start with us and will be confined agreement on what we must do to better understand how we can in reform the of Congress Accountability act to give us more confidence in the process with justice for those terrible experiences they have endured we owe it to the employees and the American People to get it right now i look forward to hearing from the witnesses and i yield back the balance of my time. Does any other member wish to be recognized . I appreciate with the Ranking Member and of bipartisan by carol nature we are approaching this than there really do believe this is a watershed moment we need to take this opportunity to fundamentally change how we address this in congress will also be on. I think my colleagues for joining us today and the chairman of the Ethics Committee will be joining us also. The first victim of Sexual Harassment who brought this forward to highlight the issue against a member of congress and prevailed in her case. She is here today i want to welcome her and thank her for her courage and perseverance and how gratefully she handled a terribly difficult situation then and it is important that now, even though it is far too long that we do right by her and all others that were behind those headlines that we see right now about the sexual predators because we know that they Cross Party Lines that we want to make sure the of victims provided an advocate for them with the low level Playing Field so the victims feel we are protecting them but we make this a fair system and also in that arena how we address the nondisclosure agreement. But is often in preventing what is going on to allow people to come forth out any fear of violating nondisclosure agreements to think that is an important issue. Thank you for the opportunity to have expert witnesses in the court that i found about changing the culture and how we do that to permeate from the top down or the bottom of that there really needs to be where we are all engaged in the process. Now the gentleman for purposes of an Opening Statement. Thanks for convening this hearing and representative sabir in the forefront of the changes we are making representative brooks is coming or is on the way were in the middle of the dramatic Culture Shift attributed to the Womens Movement in the United States and political democracy it is part of the public uproar over Sexual Harassment and sexual assaults began in other places rocketing across america and this is to restate the comment at a zero tolerance for Sexual Harassment and is a fan dignified equal work place for everyone who comes to serve congress were doing this on a bipartisan basis with a comprehensive institutional basis this is a Culture Shift Like Congress has gone through before used to be lobbyists could give members gives and takes them out for dinner on fancy trips then the public uproar and scandal of past was a rule was passed notice of the bubble in this culture used to be members could pocket money when they would retire and there was the scandal with a public uproar now would is unthinkable anybody would do that today we simply need to make Sexual Harassment something that is unthinkable that needs to be done within these halls. That is the value but what we need is the process that implements the of value and the devil is in the details but we need rules to strongly deter Sexual Harassment and a process in place to swiftly and fairly punish Sexual Harassment to address that issue getting to the fact of those cases that are controverted until weve moved to a time when Sexual Harassment is no more in this body but i am glad we are part of this. Going through this process is painful for some members but we have to leave sexualharassment behind the way we have left other practices behind. And other colleagues that come to join his of the project. Anyone else have an Opening Statement . I applaud your efforts and the bipartisan manner you ever undertaken this issue to Ranking Member brady we are at a watershed moment weve been working on this issue for a very long time long before i came to congress as a matter of fact in the mid1990s and was chairwoman in the state legislature we had a hearing on this issue and we brought in dr. Frances conley who was the first tenured neurosurgeon in the United States and was a professor at stanford the of and she wrote a book of that talk about the horrific environment in which she had to work as a professional in academia and a medical professional. Of course the hearings of 1982 was also a watershed issue and a time when it was called the year of women. It was one year but frankly that was not enough so we have experienced there is a return to the status quo we all recognize now the office of compliance is mandated to do things of that hurts the victim of not by choice but that is just how it is mandated with the Congressional Accountability Act for grove h. R. 4396 has over 110 cosponsors with the acts that it tends to do the job of reforming the office of compliance. I dont think it goes far enough for gore as we continue to talk about this issue of, we need to recognize that probably the house Ethics Committee for House Administration committee is not the thin you to which investigations should be sent with a complaint is filed about sexualharassment. It needs to be an independent investigation. What about due process . I would say there is due process of we allow the independent entity to do the review to make a recommendation to the house that that would provide that. But i do think that we have to recognize behavior like this normally is not just one incident of. Normally it is a pattern of behavior. And i think we have got to make sure that no matter how we move forward that we are victims centric. We have to recognize one saddam office crying and said to me going through this process was worse than the Sexual Harassment. Shame on us for not addressing this sooner but i want us to remember a young woman who came into this building who worked in a number of offices and was in her Second Office where where she filed a complaint for sexualharassment. She is no longer here, her career was over she was told her career would be over she filed the complaint. Weve got to make sure the victims have the opportunity to stay here and work they have a right to work in these halls. This is because they called out a staff member or colleague is not a reason if they file a complaint to ostracize them. As we talk about this i hope we double our efforts to make sure we are protecting the victims making sure there is a soft landing so they can continue to pursue a career in public service. The gentleman from oregon for of carolina. I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of the of this and i think it says much the speaker has chosen the leadership to handle a sensitive and important matter for quite pain of the of bravery of the victims that have stepped forward and congresswoman spears says there is a pattern to this behavior much of the time it usually takes a champion to step forward and one of the of leaders in this movement and went to a knowledge that i yield back. Any other person wishing to be recognized . I will now introduce our witnesses, first acting chair of the u. S. Equal opportunity commission. Before becoming the acting chair to have extensive experience as the u. S. Assistant secretary of labor with a workforce policy council with the work force of the house of representatives. And as counsel to the firms with his wifes office we also welcome you. The executive director from office of compliance with the office of compliance that was established to insure the integrity of Congress Accountability act of 1995 through dispute resolution and enforcement. Also working with the office of compliance board of directors to revise congress on needed changes and amendments to the Congressional Accountability Act previously serving as the chairman of the protection board in forcing federal merit systems in the executive branch and confirmed of to that position in 2009. More than 20 years of professional experience and in Employment Matters she began the legal career as a law clerk will call. Currently serving as counsel to the House Employment Council a corporate dirty handling litigation for a Large Telecommunications company for also served as the assistant Corporation Counsel representing the district of columbia as the assistant United States attorney handling criminal prosecutions and as an attorney at attorney for the equal Opportunity Employment Commission. Then served as counsel for the washington d. C. Office since 2008 prior to joining over five years was chief Government Affairs officer at the Investment Company institute, National Association of the mutualfund industry. Previously Vice President and managing director of the office of Government Relations his earlier employment includes counsel to the committee on the House Administration and House Oversight and we welcome you. The committee has received each of your testimonies and you each will have five minutes to present a summary. Listed you have testified before so we have the clock in front of you that will help you keep track of her time. It will be green then turn yellow for the last minute and red means your time has expired. The chair recognizes the witnesses for the Opening Statement thanks for being here today. Good morning in thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today about this subject has consumed headlines that sexualharassment that we have known to be far too common only fully brought into the light. The issue of Sexual Harassment dominated the collective conversation and i am pleased to add my voice by way of introduction the acting chair of the equal Opportunity Employment Commission serving as the commissioner for the last seven and a half years in President Trump to the fate me acting chair of in january of that sheer bravado i was struck by the number of the cases we would litigate that we would have a conversation with of then chair speaking with every one of the district directors each of the regional attorneys astonished and deeply concerned that i was told the same thing that eeoc could have they got it nothing but harassment cases generally and Sexual Harassment specifically. This with the concern of the leadership level without pervasiveness we have continued to see led to the establishment of a select task force with the outside group of experts following a Public Commission meeting i was honored to cochair alongside my democratic colleagues who joins me today. The goal of creating a the task force to find new and innovative ways to want to speak to and reinforce prevention not just the Enforcement Agency liability issue to have organized labor and trade Association Academics and social scientist our work the release of the final cochairs report almost to the data United States Supreme Court handed down the landmark decision which it held for the first time the Sexual Harassment was a form of unlawful sexual discrimination we took away a number of Lessons Learned that i would take this opportunity to share but first workplace harassment is a persistent problem onethird of the 90,000 churches received fiscal year 2015 included the allegation of harassment on the basis of sex and race and National Origin workplace harassment particularly Sexual Harassment goes unreported a head in fact, Police Common response is for the employee to take a formal action to report that harassment internally or file a formal legal complaint not because they feared disbelief for an action or social or professional retaliation the effective effort must are at the top and leadership and accountability are crucial it cannot be overstated effective that is not tolerated to star at the highest level of management and less than systems in place to hold the place accountable for the expectation and finally trading must change much done over the last 30 years has not worked as a prevention tool to focused on avoiding legal liability effective training can replace workplace harassment but even that cannot occur in a vacuum it is most effective when tailored to the specific workplace is committing with the workplace harassment i am happy to offer the thoughts in the interest of giving my written testimony with a lengthy discussion of the procedures with respect to charges but also to the committee is set a promising practices preventing in combating workplace harassment we recently published is provided to Committee Staff and a closing i reiterate a key finding of the Task Force Report that no system of training and monitoring or reporting is likely to succeed in preventing harassment in the absence of genuine and public by yen from the top level of the organization you must do better by employees to answer any questions you may have im a former house staffer vice also i am familiar working in the legislative branch. You are now recognized for your Opening Statement for five minutes. Good morning. On behalf of the office of compliance in the entire board of directors fake you for the opportunity to discuss the process and our concerns we support the efforts of this committee and members of congress to mandate workplace rights for everyone over the last six weeks we have seen a triple digit percentage increase or in person prevention training within increase in the number of staffers and rolled twice as many visits how to report Sexual Harassment a full percent surge in the number of people subscribing to the social media platform to receive updates and i am happy to report that posters notifying employees are flying off the shelf with three orders arriving late last week. But they tell is that people are finally taking seriously the problem of sounding the alarm to combat through outreach and education however mandatory trading and posters are the floor, not the ceiling even as the chairman notes in her statement the trading has not worked as a prevention tool, we have over 20 years of non mandatory training and here we are today. To reach the ceiling natalie to the process change but publicly and forcefully that the culture must change. That cultural shift includes a Sexual Harassment prevention policy currently not mandated under the law it should include examples of what constitutes harassment standards of conduct investigations and accountability. This discussion is proof that these numbers are validating and focusing on the issue validating the efforts to build a strong culture of collegial respect let me know via reports can portray this as the byzantine is trotted in secrecy folly understand their directed that the process they nonetheless sully the reputation between those men and women that report to the Office Every Day for work including Occupational Health and safety inspectors who examine the Capitol Grounds for hazards including the Deputy Director whod trade five but did people in person not all at once but in one or two or 10 people at a time for call also the counselor who meets with the police at the beginning of the process to share their stories and advise them of their rights and comfort them in their distress. This is the process congress designed in 1995. That not only demands confidentiality under the law that we have been passed to read mr. Seeking to change that we welcome and we hope will play the interval role many call this a moment of reckoning we call it a moment of clarity not what we do but what we do under the congressional negative Congress Accountability act and as to deliberately ask the you bear in mind this is a new day not just for congress but the legislative committee those changes he proposed should apply beyond the halls of congress to the entire legislative committee during this time the of this stands ready and we will roll up our sleeves to assist you with that important work ahead with a courtier questions. Thanks for your testimony next is the counsel for the office of house. Welcome. Good morning thinking the committee for inviting me for a second time to give testimony on the issue of preventing Sexual Harassment in the workplace this testimony will supplement the written testimony submitted earlier this week. From though Washington Post today i was sexually harassed question my story it was written by a whole woman who tells her story how she was sexually harassed and goes on to say question my story because we need to expand their reviews and to say harassment complaints are characterized by grey areas and a few witnesses the victims and perpetrators are both live and that it was important to read the language it captures better than i can do the challenges my office faces on these issues there has to be as a discussion and understanding when i say these issues i mean validation of discrimination sexualharassment is a former from lawful discrimination to a site based on race or color or religion or National Origin and disability also to automatically characterize as victims leaving is counterproductive and i agree the role is to question discrimination including Sexual Harassment and to do so as not victim blaming the like most women in this country i have experienced Sexual Harassment in the workplace during the early part of my employment end my way was to leave a job that i like as a woman of color i experience race discrimination in the workplace for a private Company Without white manager brought in a with he displayed in his office saying he wanted to motivate the black employee i believe these and other experiences have made me more sensitive to those allegations of discrimination not lessen there probably a better lawyer for it because i understand that perspective i also tried to lead by example at the head of office and posing difficult and challenging questions is necessary to tell of Sexual Harassment has occurred on the of the side of that equation in our clients tell us they have done absolutely nothing want wrongly question that we are not in the business of covering up unlawful behavior but examine the gray areas that i mentioned it earlier by conducting a thorough a investigation then working with the clients figuring how to address the concern of legally and practically. It is a microcosm reflecting the work place across america. Yes sexualharassment occurs and congress did well the more serious allegations of Sexual Harassment and borderline couple behavior tend to receive the most potential from the media those at least not in my office collective experience with this type of behavior does go a reported bin may account for some of that. Tried to its of the question what has worked to address the concern of sexualharassment, i wish there was it easy answer but there is lot. Although not a panacea believe mandatory training is very helpful i have trained quiet death few members on this issue meet the end of responses been encouraging that meant that members are talking directly with their employees and telling them they should come forward without fear of retaliation. Employees will always believe it but it is a positive step to help change the perception that these issues and should not be reported. Trait does work effectively bed when they are around both. I am convinced no amount of trading will fix egregious conduct that will require accountability but it is a step in the right direction. In closing things to the committee again and welcome your question. Thank you. Daniel crowley is recognized for five minutes for the opening. Chairman and Ranking Member and members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am a partner of the law firm of kaye and delegates at the outset my comments are my own and do not represent the views of the firm or my colleagues or clients for cry have the per privilege to serve as counsel under bill thomas march 91 through 98 that was going to use straddle in the first law enacted by the first Republican Congress but these are not fundamentally partisan issues better rather institutional in nature in fact, the legislation began under the democratic majority but if a lot is by age for the private sector it is good for congress they will write better laws of the have to live and three the separation of powers must we respected. The challenge faced more than two decades ago was to reconcile these principles and at that time in those grievances must take in an that congressional context even if there were subsequently proved to be untrue. At issue is the debate that is interpreted by a u. S. Supreme court but what they place within the jurisdiction of either house, one would but then did also attaches but toward that end we provided creation for the office of compliance within the legislative branch in been conducting studies did but perhaps the most significant provision in the ncaa isnt of the. Set exception section five 02 should not be a violation of any provision to consider the Party Affiliation domicile or compatibility in those but but this exemption since but that would set the employment by allowing member offices but many did dead but those without prejudice to the legality of such decisions. Weld subject to broad but that is under the and to make it clear but it is up to the courts if it applies on a case by case basis. But the committee on ethics has brought discretion to discipline members for violating standards of official conduct that could provide another meaningful have to do. The congressional teeth Congress Accountability act is attempted to reconcile members subjected themselves to the same laws imposed on others inconsistent with a constitutional protection afforded and after more than two decades it is important to review the caa and standards of official conduct to determine if they are necessary and said to be appropriately devised i believe today that to take and must be unequivocal. Base for inviting me to testify i will respond to any questions each member is allotted five minutes to question a witness or witnesses i will recognize myself for five minutes. And i will start with you. Certainly i of appreciate you being here today and in this area of Sexual Harassment by one to focus on your work as the cochair task force on the steady of harassment in the workplace. Eeoc created a document entitled policy practices for preventing harassment to identify those four were corer principles so can you give us some insight at what practice would constitute the effective education in program . What have you seen that works or doesnt . Those that are on the web site completely derived from the Task Force Report and recommendations that we made. There are five Core Principles for preventing harassment and at the very first meeting of the task force we all agreed we all know what is actionable harassment but that is not working as a prevention. There has to be consistent and demonstrated accountability and there has to be those policies in place, trusted and accessible complaint procedures with regular and interactive training tailored to the audience and organization and as i said earlier we were very critical of much of the training taking place in developed over the last 30 years as a prevention tool but not by any means reject training as a tool we believe that is absolutelabsolutel why necessary in particular in person training can make a big difference with a number of recommendations. That leadership passed to show up to demonstrate theyre interested in it and give examples to that particular workplace. Not even so much does at which they can report and they know who to go to in the consequences that is a in an important component as well as. This isnt as effective as the person at the top says this is the way . Oftentimes to hear the council but is called in to do trainings at corporations then head of the Business Unit or organization will show up for the beginning of the training is that what you to Pay Attention and then leave. So the leadership has to be as committed and as engaged in that training to send a message. Of like to ask a couple questions would you describe as the mediation phase to retain to when counseling is initiated or when it begins are they have to have the attorneyclient prior to being notified . That depends. Although your response. [laughter] those instances we will know when they complained is coming down the pike because they have contacted us and employee who is dissatisfied going on in the workplace with the attachment to a discriminatory moment and we work with the office to try to redress the situation. They were put it in that performance approve a plan so we were to that entire process we anticipate that going through the counseling phase that is confidential but when mediation end is requested to be notified automatically we might know about that had a time for the first time and of course, then we look at the attempt to resolve the matter at that point. You are now recognized for five minutes. Of all the cases that you handle how much is sexualharassment . I anticipated that question and i have a list here in the number of cases and a category that day ocher typical note typically received and retaliation cases because they file a claim they will include that. Ag and family and medical leave and sexual discrimination and gender discrimination cases come in at the same rate followed by sexualharassment and prevents the claims, National Origin and military discrimination is about the same rate then finally claims based on color. To support the coolingoff period . I dont have a strong position on that one way or another but only eliminating that 30 days period oftentimes we do settle cases during that period so it would take away another opportunity to possibly resolved a case before a party goes directly to litigation. Do you find that just the engagement changes office behavior in the future . But it has been reported when there was an incident of some kind it tries to take appropriate action and as a particular individual or for the entire staff court might mean to have written policies sitting with them to adopt those policies and to have conversations Going Forward. There is of lot of positive coming out of these situations. Ag for your cervicitis stayed to work of my former counsel. Key was a real gift to this committee with a Congress Accountability act why a did congress exclude the library of congress . Of was that a mistake . I have to tell you that my vote recollection is now 22 years old little remember every discussion. I can appreciate that. Do recall a number of conversations with the library of the police should be invited to remember the specific conversation of the library but the answer may be that they were already covered to raise certain extent under federal law if i am not mistaken. Yes spring to provide a little insight it does have its own internal there is a hearing process but the hearing of this says it must me forwarded to the librarian. Do you think we should include . We do. Thank you in june 16 rightabout the with a significant power of disparities and is a germanic the sample from any with trading but this is about proving the laws of that is important we really need to change the culture so what other work can we do to change that culture . When it important they you should consider as you are looking with that of Congressional Accountability Act the pilot to the testimony that there is a difference between what action has to be taken when someone is concerned and complaints they are being sexually harassed that the office of complaint compliance deals with, is their liability . So you have to wonder what is so if you would bifurcate your thinking and that you should consider how detailed can you be and instruct your Work Environment how you want to deal with those intermediate issues of harassment. A witch may be referred to the house and employment counsels office and may be the office of compliance does not. I would urge you to think about what is the process and what is this type of corrective action is taken immediately that is different from all of the other processes that are in place that determines what is their liability so that is one thing i would urge you to think about. Overall in terms of your focus on culture is very much with our select task force spent a number of times on including what is the message being sent from the top, and is the leadership of the organization owning each individual workplace and of course workplaces in congress you have a love of young people and people working in very close quarters, people working very long hours. I think there is a recommendation may be in one of the bills that you do a climate survey. Those are things you can also consider and make sure you are receiving them on a regular basis, thus culture and the message that is sent from the leadership and the engagement with them each individual office to address back can do the most to act as a prevention tool. Thank you for the testimony. I yield back. The chair will now recognize the vice chairman of the committee mr. Davis for five minutes. Minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and 12 analysts. Thank you for your testimony. To begin, i believe in an important take away as the need for the oc to become more familiar with policies and procedures in the organization and how the Committee Process works as well. I encourage more outreach to the hill in general, so you have a sense of how we can Work Together to serve and improve this institution. I want to focus on the outreach to the hill. Your testimony discusses the need to receive training. How are they currently reaching new employees with this information . We have a very unique mandate in fact we are compelled to train on our statute by the law and its a very Robust Program which is for a small office administered largely by two people. As i stated in my Opening Statement, 500 people have been trained in person in the last six weeks the Online Training module has soared in recent times. Five people completed the training module for Sexual Harassment prevention training. In october it was 618, in november it was 4,000 with 800 arriving just last week so in addition to this type of training, we are developing new training. December 10 is a comprehensive online module that talks about antiharassment, antidiscrimination and retaliation. Iintroduction is an overview orientation of the accountability act. We have a new module that will report to be to discuss how to report and respond to sexualharassment and behavior that can lead to Sexual Harassment. Lets talk about new employees. We dont know who the new employees are. We would like to be notified so that we can communicate with them directly. Is no contact between our office when an employee comes onboard. You mentioned you wanted to reach younger staffers. Do you see them taking the training modules or do you show we dont know the age of the person taking the module. What we could explore doing with this committee and the members of the panel is a particular module designed for new employees and hi younger employs could face different issues. I think it is a great point that there needs to be more communication by our offices to make sure the modules are out there and i also think its important we develop training for senior managers because they will be the first ones in employee will go to to address the process and i think they need to know more about the process. Theres a module in place right now that meets the standards so it is there alrea already. You talked abou talk about how o strengthen your outreach programs and we look forward to working with you to do that. I want to point out our former colleague is in the audience today. I would hope as we move forward with those who make up the agency would help us help you better identify how to serve employees and understand how we can get anybody who may be in front of you and the office on the path to get the problem rectified. I appreciate you being here. The gentle mans yields back. The less power and equality, the more vulnerable they are. I think weve got to take it as a sign and cause of progress here that we have 84 women in the house today and 21 in the senate. One could only imagine conditions when they were all virtually male. But by far an interesting comment in the discussions weve been focused on, lots of women in professional jobs and she said people were not talking about the Hotel Workers and farm workers and waitresses. Are there policies that could have a change across the society . From the executive suite to the factory floor to the farmers fields we had her in this case is a. Thats part of the reason why we put the task force together we included representatives from the worker advocacy groups. Its how the individuals that are invulnerable to work situations can go to those organizations and seek some redress. Its something we have in the federal sector tha that has requirements that there are different information in different languages in that you are reaching populations particularly for vulnerable workers so thats one thing to consider. In terms of title vii, i am not sure theres anything i can recommend right now and i would be happy to give more thought to it. I thought to question my story by a victim of Sexual Harassment and you invoked the description in the gray area and the lack of the thirdparty witness and so on and it brought to mind the sign of the firstclass intelligences to hold contrary thoughts in your mind at the same time and still conduct yourself effectively. Its a process fair to the victimthere to thevictims and t. The problem is today people think the process is so cumbersome and convoluted that its purpose is not to discover the truth of some help to bury the truth. That is a public make sure we do have a process that is fair but also moves things quickly enough so people see that we are taking the issue seriously . When i asked a question about the coolingoff period, i dont have a practical reason so eliminating that particular piece of the process might be helpful. I do think that i know off the compliance to speak more to this. From my perspective, i dont think it is needed. As i said, the one reservation i have is that it does provide an additional chance to revise the matter before they begin. I do think its important to communicate to the employees theioftheir rights. Thats not my job, not our officers job and i know thereve been over the years references we would get paychecks and there were the communications in their rights under the Congressional Accountability Act so to make them aware of their rights and the ongoing communication i think would be helpful. Eliminating the coolingoff period would be helpful. The gentle lady from virginia for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. I want to focus on what you cited is one of the best prevention methods of a trusted complaint procedure. Now we have the procedures that by law you are required to have. Weve been talking about a number having some type of victims advocate. As an advocate of the victims counsel, wouldnt it help if we have somebody where the victim could go in even if they had the training when youre in that situation and you are in the process in crisis or yo so you d have somebody you could go to in that type of situatio situationt that improve this whole dynamic of. The pentagon from the Defense Department because what they have been dealing with for the last 14 years by their own internal procedures so having a victims advocate is something i know they set up there and i would urge you to maybe consult with the generals whove been dealing with that and they would have more experience with that but i think that your focus on addressing the immediate situation, what can help them in that immediate situation. When i asked her with the situation that was an Ombudsman Council by the get was the single thing that she identified and thinking about that experience i think it is important that we get back in the legislation. When someone sets the accounts maybe we can have more getting directly to them in multiple methods not just here is a class you can go to, but getting more information out that way. I guess it is the office of compliance, i know you are continuing to go through the records. You went through that type and the public right to know the cases youre dealing with and particularly want members are involved and member staff to investigate you will have that information soon and whatever legal way you are allowed to have a much more detailed accounting. It was a part of our statement we understand that during the counseling stage in the mediation stage when the officers represent the victim feels entirely alone and is at a severe disadvantage what we have composed to do is beat up the counseling stage so the council are actively participates in Technical Advice and drafting a complaint. That coupled with the Authority Given to the general counsel to immediately investigate the claims can be a form of advocacy but in response to the question that dovetails to the request on the ethics that we provided in a response this morning the law as it is currently written is difficult for us to produce this kind of information because we know it is strict confidentiality. In mediation is also strict confidentiality and that specifically adheres to the products and materials produced in mediation but it is private throughout the industry. What it requires in terms of producing information and the rules as the members and the type of queries and initial requests for counseling, members of covered employees and the complaints they figh file into e claims. In terms of the disclosure to fix, and our knowledge we havent received any request up until this recent one, so we appreciate the concern. The law as it is currently written only allows us to disclose this type of information in a very narrow circumstance when the case reaches a final decision and the employee is consulted. So in the event we cannot release documents with respect to counseling, mediation where there is no final decision and the employee has not been consulted. Having said that, we would like to work with the committee to change that goal and a potential change goes towards granting us the authority to investigate claims. If the general counsel for granted that authority similar to what we have and the ada, the general counsel at that point could find there is reason to believe it violated in a report could be generated that report could be made available to you. I hope we can get much more detailed information if we need to make changes to allows you to do that because if we are going to correct process, we need to know where the complaints have been. We did get the committee in a report november 28 in a memo detailing from 1997 to 2007 that only about 90 of the cases were a lot of safety things. We need to know what are the type of cases and then when the Members Officers are involved how we are going to do that Going Forward but i think the public has a right to know that going back and certainly Going Forward how we can improve the transparency, so i hope we can work on that on getting more details. The gentle beauty yields back and we will now recognize the gentle lady from california for five minutes. My apologies for being tardy. The fbi director is in the Judiciary Committee and i had to be there for a bit. This obviously is a very serious matter for us and i think that we are very clearly going to change the procedures in the statute that we have, so one of the things im interested in is the recommendation that you made on the additional powers through the general counsel that you just referenced specifically how the council would use those investigative powers to get to the facts of the matter that you currently cant do. What conflicts might exist if that were assigned to you and can you explain that to us . Rather than reinventing the wheel, the used the internal mechanisms that we currently have and the genera handed the l does have Investigatory Authority and how that works is unusual. Its not the same in the labor form o that the Current Practice would be we would work with the Employee Office and thats not going to work in this particular circumstance but in the investigation is a move towards revolution because in the cases theres a lot of dollars involved so there is a significant amount of negotiation and discussion. If the matter is not resolved, it could result in the filing of a complaint with the general counsel that actually represents to be employee moving the case forward. That is the process that we envisioned putting into effect. The reports are not made public and given to those that can control the outcome and fix the outcome if you will cause of the process is in place. The concern we have is the lack of staffing. We dont know how great the volume will be. One of the things we want more transparency on this and the issue. If you have an employer and employee dispute for example under the act that we adopted in 1995, certain employees are exempt in the private sector you could have a dispute about that category and a fight about overtime. I dont know that this needs to have the same level of disclosure. Part of the way to do that is to have some daylight on the process, so one of the things ive been thinking a lot about is how do we make this transparent in a way that protects the victims with a confidential agreement, so im just wondering in terms of what other people in an office where theres Sexual Harassment what their role is in publication is and are they constrained by peace agreements thathese agreeg undertaken right now. Part of the training in the future is coming soon and will cover by standard training specifically how do people who view this type of activity what do they do and i think that is something the representatives previously mentioned in terms of the training. We can change those rules. Let me urge the committee as you go about changing the rules one of the committees you need to reach out to is the plaintiffs that have a certain let me talk about what we here in the nondisclosure there is a very confusing area that we have a very simple answer. We dont require nondisclosure agreements. We dont provide standardized language and we dont require anybody to sign a nondisclosure agreement to come into the system. Thats important, but certainly the inherent power differential between a member of congress and a staffer who has been harassed is pretty extreme and i think i read an article recently about a young woman who stepped forward and has never been able to be employed again even though she did the right thing. So certainly we need to get or heaourhead around how to protect victims even beyond the Settlement Agreement. And i see my time has expired. Thank you for your testimony. The chair will recognize the gentleman from North Carolina for five minutes. I have a couple of questions thats come to our attention for her relations arfurther relatiod to reimburse the Judgment Fund for agencies and settlements for discrimination in the workplace, yet there is no comparable requirement for congress so when we talk about liability, what discussions were held prior or during the consideration of the congressional account of the act regarding personal liability for settlements and final judgments awarded under . My memory is two decades old. As i recall there was a clear discussion early on that would have simply prohibited personal liability. Thats changed is the process unfolded to limiting the ability to pay judgments out of the fund was created and those discussions occurred extensively with the subcommittee on the legislative Branch Appropriations who have a significant input into that decision, buthedecision, but i e general notion was first off its not the member personally come into the office of the men are so for example if the member leaves office there would be the ability to get restitution from the office after the fact so i think it would be navigational to hold members personally responsible when in fact it is an Employee Office of the congress for all other purposes including the federal tort claims act etc. The second part of the question i will ask is there any provision in the Congressional Accountability Act or inhouse rules that would forbid the use to pay for the settlement reach at any point in the dispute resolution period . Im not sure there is an answer to the question what funds can be used to settle the claims but of course vendors have discretion over the use and i imagine that in certain is particularly when part of the settlement involves reinstatement to the position that would be used. I cant imagine that wasnt part of the discussion with the authority that a member would have. They are higher than they even exist today. In a twoweek settlement. The ability to cover up such behavior, wrongdoing, harassment leaves a lot oleads to a lot ofn the members hands so are you saying there can be a separate settlement you think the members have that authority but you have to remember at the time they were with a specific intention of giving attention on how to deploy the resources to such an extent they were renamed from the kennedy on the House Administration to thhouseadminie oversight to emphasize the fact that it wasnt going to be determined at the Committee Level but the individual member, so i think theres some conflict between the accountability max language. Can you explain how this has been interpreted by the court ct and its applications in the context of the Congressional Accountability Act . I dont think the Supreme Court has ruled the court in particular has ruled that the clause doesnt preclude the suits under the Congressional Accountability Act but there still remains the affirmative defense that members can assert so we have created a sort of gray area of stepping back to the original discussions around the act there was a caselaw that it isnt clear whether they can wave the constitutional privileges but any would have to be exclusive and unequivocal and i would have to say in the Congressional Accountability Act we equivocated. A simple yes or no do you believe its wrong for members to use the mra to settle Sexual Harassment claims clacks the chair will do recognize the gentleman from nebraska. Thank you mr. Chairman, to the witnesses and thank you for this interaction today among the members and certainly a very serious topic. Its interesting i appreciate my colleagues recommendation for a victims advocate. If each of you could express how that may be brought into the process and how you might take place so that if that is the decision to make changes if that would work and how that might work and if you could perhaps express your knowledge of how that has been done elsewhere and how effective it has been. What we propose is beefing up what we already have rather than throwing out what we have in creating a separate office. We could take the counselors position and make it a much more interactive process whereby they would help technically advised the employee on how to draft a charge or complaint coupled with using the general counsel and giving him the authority to investigate claims in the dispute resolution if the general counsel were to find a reasonable cause he would actually represent the employee in the further process. I wouli would have to think a little bit more about how it would work in terms of the specifics, but i can tell you that it would likely be a welcome thing from my clients perspective in that i think an advocate would encourage employees to come forward sooner rather than later. That was music to our ears because the sooner an employer knows there is an issue, the sooner they can address it. Its not a good model when things are way down the track and an employee feels he or she has to go to the office of compliance so that absolutely could be an upside to that. Theres nthere is no victims ady role on the part of the eeoc is self. I think its an interesting idea and it is amazing the extent they havent fundamentally changed. The intent of the time was to create a process that would go to encourage victims to come forward and allow resolution in a way that didnt incentivize politically charged claims immediately before, so anything consistent with those objectives which sounds like this might be worth pursuing. The gentleman yields back into the chair will recognize the gentleman from georgia for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman and thank you all for being here. Of all the issues i thought i would be dealing with when i ran for con us, this is not one of them. And in fact it sickens me that the most respected legislative body in the world, the reputation as being tainted by this but its extremely important and it rolls onto character. Theres nothing that we can do to affect someones character but we can remove the push i pus that allow them to tide you can hide behinthe guybehind it and e are looking. In your testimony you describe the process and it makes several recommendations that one of the areas you didnt really addresses the role in administering the settlement fund. Can you take us through the role in the payment process what is the tentative settlement reached or final judgment received . If you allow me t will allowo clarify, the statute refers to funds that are appropriated by the treasury. In actuality there is no fun. It is an account and that account is empty until we requisition the funds for a particular award or settlement. And also to be clear about the settlement account of the 17 million we talked about as it covergetsit covers awards and ss from the process it also covers awards and settlements from District Courts to rise out of the arbitration process from various collective bargaining agreements and the legislative community such as the architect of the capitol and the capitol police. One more question and then we will get back to this. It is a 0dollar account where something occurs like we are talking about here we requisite it. We ask for the money for the vehicle of the war and which would be familiar to this committee. Our role in the settlement is purely ministerial. The parties negotiate the term and its incumbent upon them to agree and secure the Proper Authority from this committee when the settlements come out of the treasury for the house. Should the desire to beef up the role for instance by giving us a greater review for legality of the decisions youd have to change the act. Currently we dont have the authority. The only thing we look for is if it is signed by the parties and if it is a written statement. Can you kind of walk me through this proces process to a 0dollar account that you received notice of a supplement of x. Number of dollars and then you request that much money. Can you start that point and walk us through is that the treasury, is it and until the individual who filed the complaint receives what is the process . When the settlement is reached, the award comes to the office and we review it for two things come in writing and signed by the parties. The Settlement Agreement and goethengoes to the case adminis. It goes down the hall to the budget officers and she has the account we are talking about through the vehicles of the warrant and once they are there the Settlement Agreement goes [inaudible] from th from the treasury. Okay, sorry. Then the final step that we have in the process is the agreement goes to a fourth person to check all the information is correct and the funds are released. At that point our involvement ends. We do not determine when it is paid. If anyone has noticed or has to sign off on it. The chairmen and Ranking Member has to sign off on particular settlements that come out of this account. In the process the chairman and Ranking Member if theres a settlement that comes out that haof hasto be approved by the c. If we do other questions i will yield back at this point. I want to underscore the importance before the committee is here on how the process has or hasnt been working so we can refine it moving forward. For the last question just raised it was my understanding the former chair of the committee declined to approve any Sexual Harassment cases and as a result it started to be used for that process. Is that your recollection clacks that is not exactly accurate. There were more than Sexual Harassment cases that were not approved. Performer cher declined to sign off and the Ranking Member was not made aware. I dont remember the exact number. It may have been one or two but it certainly wasnt more than that. So if it isnt signed off by the chair there has to be another way it is reached. I want to focus back on the victim. You have a victim whos come forward and has been harassed by a member in the office to continue to work in that office in order for it to be resolved through the office of compliance and then the office of compliance has no role, correct . There is a concern we havent discussed and that is retaliation. Its currently covered under the caa in that an employee who comes to the office experiencing some sort of retaliation was having sex with claims but heres how the process works. The employee comes in, they seek counseling, go to mediation into the office now knows of a claim. Under the current process, that employee would have to restart the process, go back to counseling and back through mediation. This is where we proposed the possibility of the investigations of the general counsel and supercharges merge at one point in time rather than going back through the whole system again. We do not have the means yet and should consider this to allow the employee to work remotely to the extent that they can. If you work for the architect you cant do that remotely but so that there is no theres note continued environment that is very uncomfortable for the victim. There actually is a way that can happen and its happened in other cases. I think we just need to make it explicit is what im suggesting. I dont think its always been the case for everybody. One of the complaint was filed the employee had to be in the office and i dont think thats right. I cant speak to specific cases but theres a lot of flexibility in this area and i think this is an area that employees have been very effective because as soon as we know that an employee engaged in protected activity People Council the office very strongly that while the underlining case may not have merit, if the employee is retaliated against in any shape, form or fashion or even have a thought bubble to retaliate they will face a difficult case and so i think weve never lost a case on retaliation my time is running out so i will ask a couple more questions. Soft landings. The one case we are all familiar with where the input e. After the settlement couldnt find a job in the capital. Maybe we dont have time right now with some kind of discussion about what we do for employees who through no fault of their own have been sexually harassed, have come forward and now have a Scarlet Letter that anywhere and cannot be employed elsewhere. Under the current law, an employee who has left is still a covered employee at 280 days from the violation so if there was retaliation they could finally claime claim for the 18. Cochairwoman recognized the chair of the Ethics Committee for five minutes. Thank you for loving me to participate. I would like to ask permission to enter into the record the letter the Ranking Member and i submitted that was just referred to, the letter december 1. I would also ask unanimous consent for the ethnic to the record the office of compliance response that was received this morning that i have been reading this morning. Without objection. In the letter on december 1 we asked that the committee and because this is a hearing about the process and about examining reforms to the Congressional Accountability Act thats what i want to zero in on. Theres many other things i would like to talk about however we asked to cook duty to provide the committee with all records in position of the office with relation to Sexual Harassment discrimination and retaliation and so forth. The response we received today indicates that you refer and i went to the section on confidentiality if i am reading your response you cannot share because of the strict confidentiality rules any claims that hes been involved in relative two referrals am i correct . Absolutely correct. The confidentiality not only binds the parties but specifically the office from discussing those claims and the law currently prohibits us from releasing information regarding and counseling to cope with the co. , the mediation peer code and allows a very narrow exception when its gone to hearing and a final decision has been render rendered. To that point on the hearing that was one hearing in 2016 is that correct . If that is what is in the letter. A screenshot on the website. Its possible that case settled. But you indicated in this letter that thereve been no proceedings before a hearing officer into the hearing officer comes after mediation, the end stage of the process but you indicated that there had been any proceedings before a hearing officer or forward relative to any members or employees. Correct, that doesnt cover District Courts. The court of appeals . Only be administrative hearing process with our hearing officers. Or are you saying there are matters that have gone to District Court . There are matters on to District Court. But you dont have possession of those records . We are not part of those. Those that go to District Court pursuant their own processing District Court. This correct. So we are not going to receive anything we asked about any Employment Matters, Sexual Harassment discrimination retaliation or any practice. The law doesnt allow us to release anything to your committee but if we were to change the law we could use the method threw a through investigy the general counsel any reports of distributed where its found for war has been widely that could be released to the committee. What are your opinions on mandatory reporting this to the committee on harassment matters . Thats a difficult question to answer. When the handle matters of discrimination and we talk with our clients, we tell the client its possible the vote results the case or the case may go forward but there may also be some type of ethics matter that may arise out of the circumstances so they know they may be fighting on two fronts whatever the claim may be. In your letter you state youve encouraged some to contact the committee. How do you do that and come off and on investigations . Is a written discussion or do you provide an inviting . Its generally by phone or in person so it is a verbal discussion. My time is up but my question is there any confidentiality on the ethics in many ways no not t the initial investigations might not be reported but in fact very often times the complaining witness is often times kept confidential. I believe they are. The chair of recognize the gentleman from alabama for five minutes. I appreciate you allowing me to participate. I want to make sure i clarify one thing. I dont think you are saying this buseeingthis but i want tos clear youre not saying that it provides immunity to a member or a Members Office if they engage in sexualharassment. That is a difficult question to answer. The conduct itself is not protected and becomes what happens when a member of congress asserts a discriminatory action which was not motivated by what the victim says. Under any circumstance. Keep in mind it is a form of discrimination. It cannot be immunized by the United States constitution. I want to make sure we got that clear. What we are touching is how we investigate and enforce this. You do not have the authority to investigate. Why would there be a distincti distinction . We have those same questions. E. Want to answer that question . I recall having conversations play a particular role because it was a case of First Impression in the peace historic things if theyre needed t there richer of retrofitting it was a more involved discussion thats why it didnt go further i can tell you. Cant tell you. A lot of case law occurred after 1995. We had decisions from 98 so what happened after that time but you wouldnt have talked about it at the time you were writing it. Power with regards to the sector or employees that dont work for congress have the power to investigate and enforce. Do you think the office of compliance should have similar powers when they come up to members of congress were people that work for us ask the short answer is yes. I thought your testimony from the hearing was spot on. Theres the difference between that investigation that has to take place and we are investigating essentially what was the corrective action taken by the company. Its my understanding from the testimony i read they play the first roll in terms of investigating the Members Office do you want to have a third party essentially whos not been representing the Members Offices on in the process conducted not initial investigation and making determination in terms of liability. Heres a really sticky issue and in the private sector when you dont have Public Disclosure issues when we engage in mediation we engage in settlement discussions and Reach Agreement its almost always confidential. Mediation rules require confidentiality and Settlement Agreements which are contracts because the confidentiality or the promise of helps foster the negotiations and foster people coming to the meeting of minds. How do we resolve that tension in the Public Sector . I wish i had an easy answer. Theres a tension there. Often times employees want the confidentiality because they want to get other jobs members of home gross one that even if a member or the office has done nothing wrong putting that information into the public certainly hurts, so i dont have an easy answer to that question. I will give it additional thought, but its a difficult situation. Thank you, sir. I want to think the witnesses for being here today. You given us valuable testimony to consider as we go forward and i wanted to also g thank of ms. Comstock for her work in this. Shes been in valuable to this committee and will be as we go forwarde h. Also want to thank representative spear and burn for your previous testimony and your participation along with ms. Brooks as ex officio members appreciate the insight you given. We have a great responsibility to get this right and to make sure we continue with the message that one case of Sexual Harassment is one too many. How to win make sure the victims as was stated, how do we make sure the victim is protected . With changes we will consider when we balance transparency issues with making sure he victim is not a victim a second time n because of changes we mae we want to make sure with rampup that we make this in the correct way. Doesnt seem that difficults for members to remember the golden rulecu and to treat peope with respect and that will solve a lot of future problems as we try to clean this up. I went to remind everyone that we have five legislative days to submit additional questions in writing that would be passed on to the witnesses and we would encourage you to answer those as quickly as possible so they could be made as part of the record. Without objection, this hearing is adjourned. This morning before the Circuit Court of appeals here is the laurel argument in International Refugee assistance project. The court will decide the legality of the third version of a President Trumps travel ban. We will have live coverage at 9 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan2. Also on this Network House of Freedom Caucus chair mark meadows speaks at the conservative but Womens Network forum and we will bring you live coverage from washington dc at noon eastern. Next, a hearing on improving the defense acquisition process. The Senate Armed Services Committee Heard from air force secretary heather wilson. Army secretary mark esper and other representatives. At the hearing is one hour 45 minutes