Transcripts For CSPAN2 Firearm Regulations Background Checks 20171207

Hours. Morning, everybody and thank you for attending todays hearing. We gather today and the wake of violent acts by a violent man in las vegas and southern springs. There is a lesser number of people who find other places as well. Today with the help of our witnesses we hope to learn more about how those tragedies may haveve been prevented and we wil discuss various proposals on preventing similar tragedies in the future. Before october 1, 2017, few americans knew what they dump stock was. Then a shooter used him to fire more than 1100 rounds into a crowd attending a Country Music concert. The shooting lasted only ten minutes. The bump stocks enabled this person to fire ammunition as fast as if he had used an automatic weapon. 58 people died, 500 wounded. The deadliest mass shooting in our history. The law laws prohibiting the factoring of machine guns for decades and decades as has been the case and greatly restrict the sale but during the Obama Administration it was determined bump stocks are legal. A number of members of congress led by senator heller of nevada recently wrote batf to ask it to revisit its decisions. Two days ago they announced they were changing their mind and issued advanced notice of proposed rulemaking that would apply the statutory definition of machine guns to bump stocks and similar devices. The publication of the notice will provide the public and the firearms industry opportunity to submit formal comments to atf on the proposed rulemaking. We do not have any proposed regulatory text before us today but i think the committee deserves to know why they decided the classification of bump stocks during the Previous Administration was incorrect. Its also important for the committee to understand how atf is now proposing to interpret the statutory t definition of machine guns. Under current case law, the courts may give deference to the agencys interpretation of statutes governing firearms. Depending on the atf interpretation, Congress Might wish to weigh in. Today we will also have a discussion about the general institute criminal background check system. Federal and state agenciesap must swiftly and accurately report information on prohibited persons unfortunately this is not always happening as it should. The sutherlands spring shooting was carried out by the individual whoho should not have been able to purchase the firearms while in the air force mr. Kelly was courtmartialed for Domestic Violence and discharge from the air force for bad conduct but because disinformation was the inference and entered into the system as the law requires he was able to purchase for weapons after his release from prison including the weapon he used in the Sutherland Spring shooting as he killed 26 people of the First Baptist church and wounded 20 more and in the days following the shooting the air force of knowledge is its own failure to report the conviction to the fbi and the failure to comply with the of reporting standards it isre inexcusable by do appreciate the way they have moved to accept responsibility for their mistakes and afford to learning more about the steps the air force is seeking to make sure that every prohibited person is reported to the fbi. Next reporting issues are not limited and in 1997 to show severe reporting problems across the department of defense just two days ago it shows 2015 through 2016 more than 30,000 convictions were not reported to the fbi and others can and improve their reporting i was pleased to hear my a former attorney general ordered a review to ensure that all federal agencies are reporting all requiredre information as far as the states are concerned some progress has been made it in recent years especially in the areas of Mental Health sectors but some states continued to lag behind these states reported fewer records on a percapita basis and more improving can be made in other areas as such as Domestic Violence this is a systemic problem with thousands of users who were not in the system but absolutely should be. The states should also report that all records submitted are complete and uptodate day all say though strategy the negative tragedies could be avoided nothing that we do today or in the weeks to come we owe it to the of victims to seriously consider what wens should do is policymakers and as legislators it is legislation the problem is that everything looks like and nail when we are they hammer. We must wield power carefully where it involves the fundamental liberties of the republic the Supreme Court laws that have the Second Amendment rights are subject to high scrutiny that is nearly tailored and we have laws and regulations that require reporting for automatic webbings the atf has issued a notice about bump stock based on existing law before we pass new laws and should be sure that they are effectively enforced and those that have the reporting compliance are fully funded so i look forward to this hearing and answers to some of the questions and once again i will thank you again because witnesses go to a lot of work thank youo for what you have done for your light on this subject. Thanks for holding the hearing and allowing the senator from the state of nevada so much affected to testify this morning. It is very much appreciated. Two months ago we witnessed the deadliest mass shooting in our countrys history in las vegas and october 1st 1 man sprayed 1100 rounds into a crowd of concert gore is in goers from a hotel room. And over 500 injured witnesses describe the scene as a war zone so think about that. Ad negative music concert. This was conducted by a 64 yearold man with a vast arsenal of weapons how did he exactt such devastation within minutes . He had a least 23 gazans, thousands of rounds of ammunition at least 12 bump stock. With a semiautomatic mimic automatic gunfire. Withnf the bump stock device semiautomatic can fire 700 rounds per minute. Turning your attention to the screen turned to the videoo clip on how these devices work. [video] machi machine guns then the w guns with automatic fire are already banned under federal law and bump stock are not of the National Firearms act enacted 1934 to strictly regulate machine guns. Passed in response to the st. Valentines day massacre of 1929 wrote when thompson machine guns called tommy guns were in a shooting by mobster gang members. The original law heavily regulated machine guns but later it was updated to also ban all future automatic weapons from private possession. There is noat reason to believe that this day and should not also be applied to bump stock devices or similar devices while the atf can ban or regulate these devices under existing law it is repeatedly stated that bump stock cannot be regulated they do not fall within the Legal Definition of a machine gun we introduced a straightforward bill to fix this to treat bump stock and devices like a machine gunun specifically the import failed manufacture transfer our possession or any part or combination or component or device or attachment or accessory designed to function n to decelerate the rate of fire from a semiautomatic rifle. That is what the bill actually says several witnessesud today including police chief willis showed how they put us all laugh risks are witnesses will alsos discuss the despicable attack that occurred one month after las vegas at a Baptist Church in texas. Darr a convicted domestic abuser able to pass the fbi background check and obtain for best brutally murdered 26 people with incomes ranging from 18 months through 77 years old i understand one was a pregnant woman with a boy child. An act of pure evil we were all devastated and infuriated to found out the fbi background check missed the gunman then he should never have been allowed to get the guns. The air force failed to provide the background check system they he insulted his wife instep child while in the air force and i must say i had a call from the secretary of the air force yesterday and i think she has taken very effective action which i think she will outline later this morning. It is also unacceptable. I i stand we need to look to the future also it was almost five years ago to the day america witnessed a tragic shooting of elementary children and their teachers of sandy hook and i just want to take this opportunity to rich knowledge the fact there are large numbers of people today here in this audience affected by gun violence and ask that they stand and recognize the of representatives from the Brady Campaign the Newtown Action alliance, moms demand action and gaby Gifford Group of the center for American Progress and the coalition to stop gun violence and the National Task force with sexual and the Domestic Violence. Representatives please stand we would like to give you a round of applause. [applause] thanks for attending those that have felt the tragedyshe particularly. We now turn to the senator from nevada of that will speak because of the tragedy that happened in her state then we will hear statements from those senators from texas about the tragedy in their state then we will go to the second panel. Ag for holding this hearing and allow me the opportunity to testify this subject today is difficult but incredibly important. October 1st my palm town where i was born and raised, las vegas experienced a tragedy more than 500 injured after they rained down fire at the Harvest Festival this event has the distinction to be the worst mass shooting in modern American History the human cost is incalculable those that survived as members of the Senate Judiciary committee you were in a unique position in tube take the first that to end these senseless massacres asking the committee to be brave what is right for the victims of survivors and Sutherland Springs and the countless communities to have a commonsense reform i will never forget the stories i heard walking through hospitals and the entire emergency room was stained with blood in the Recovery Room turning into a makeshift morgue with calls from her father that she would never be coming home for each of the 58 People Killed we have come to learn the story is a h sacrifice and courage of and love that thousands of stories that did not hesitate to help others they are the true heroes. And then with those other survivors. Stranger is helping strangers he save the lives of 30 people by leading them out of the venue by taking cover and other holders and iraq war veteran stay behind to help the victims on the ground using the nursing experience to help those that were in a mobile because of their injuries despite her best efforts she couldnt save one young woman and had a heartbreaking task to tell a mother her daughter was dead and she said i will never forget their girl i had to tell the mom that her daughter had gone. I have never seen such a profound Community Response in the days and weeks after the shooting im continued to be amazed at the string cancer it to help us move forward following this terrible event focusing on working with the colleagues ofcu reforms to stop tragedies like this from happening again. Of mass shooting was made more of the bill because of a firearm accessory known as the bump stock design to turn the semiautomatic rifle into a Deadly Weapon i welcome the testimony today on these accessories and i believe what we hear today will confirm these devices should be kept off our streets and i am proud to cosponsor the automatic gunfire prevention act i believe west must pass this legislation that bump stock to come along in our country we should not wait to do thisy through el link the rulemaking process that could take years the victims need action our wounds had not yetet healed and in silence reigns taxes texas the it ida reevaluate to reevaluate our check system and proud to to cosponsored to ensure that crucial information and then to inform the work on this legislation. To understand the importance of Second Amendment rights hundreds of thousands of lawabiding citizens own guns as part of our culture butt also to take dangerous weapons of the hands of criminals. And we would forward to the members of thehe committee to make america safer. Thinking of the victims of the Las Vegas Shooting and i try to honor their legacy they give for the opportunity to share their stories today. We usually dont ask questions of colleagues say youre free to go if you would like. Mr. Chairman i appreciate you and the of senator on this topic also for your leadership in the wake of terrific shooting in las vegas vertexes suffered its owntr tragedy november 5th 1 month ago when a deranged gunman killed 26 people were shipping because the gun man actually shot through the exterior walls of the church while people were worshiping in signed than shoot the wounded in the head to end their lives it was horrible in terrific experience if not to the our heroic actions of two private citizens than even more bloodshed would have occurred. Does the nra trying trained firearm instructed in than wounding them twice with the help of a ninth neighbor who was driving past the church chased down the shooter to make sure the rampage ended the Senate Judiciary committee holds this hearing to ask what were going to do rap these horrific events. I personally got tired of the statements that we need to do something, something i think it is pretty clear particularly with fixing the broken background check system is if we do that it will save lives and every day we that the current discussion of the background check bader lives in jeopardy and i hope we will do something but that will make a difference in and save lives but we can do it. Is important that the bureau of atf will evaluate the bump stock surely after the shooting we learned the shooter had a significant criminal history of Mental Illness that shittah prevented him from purchasing firearms he simply lied when he purchased ceasefire arms from the federal unlicensed dealer butra because the information was not up loaded by the air force it wasntm available from purchasing these guns i appreciate the secretary of the air force this response they recognize what the problem of this is working quickly to address it but simply it is unacceptable with the department of defense and the failure to upload the required information is the background check system and ind hope if anything good comes out of this tragedy it will be that we finally fix on a bipartisan basis this broken background check system i leave and the Second Amendment and i believe we each have an individual right to keep and bear arms and legal gun owners natalie are no threat to the community to help protect the community when the police are not immediately available but simply there is no excuse for not enforcing current law and the could have avoided a strategy when that information was not uploaded into the background check system and we know what happened after that. So i am pleased that following this tragedy we have s decided to do something on the bipartisan basis it is a balanced and bipartisan piece of legislation with one objective to make sure federal and state agencies are complying with the current law to look bad day has vendor by for a brother or sister to say yes we could have acted to prevent a tragedy but we didnt. We did not do our job. This is supported with Second Amendment groups with the nra and the National Sheriffs Association Like the National Coalition of Domestic Violence to thank all of my colleagues for joining me in this effort this will save lives think he for holding thefo hearing to highlight the problems that we have to fix the broken back from check system. Sold texas chili sauce or a terrific mass murder. I was there the day after the shooting i stood in the sanctuary. Where over 450 bullets were fired in pews overturned in shattered glass as they came to worship while one of the terrain to the tick with this small country century executing every man woman and child with a rifle shot to the head. Shooting is shown as 18 months for pope spending time with the pastor who lost their 14 yearold daughter holding them crying and praying with them spending time with the victims. With their wife and unborn child once sought to of her siblings murdered i have a seven yearold daughter a homeland i dont know how that precious girl moves on from that tragedy. One of the shooting victims at Brooks Army Medical center had a ventilator and the right to are bad the shot he could write with his left hand and wrote dont blame god this is evil. We saw the face of evil. And the neighbor who said somebody is shooting at the church running to the dead as safe the done save people doubt the ar15 ran to the church barefoot and sheltered behind a pickup truck and the shooter was still in the church executing people that had his rifle pointed at one people one woman when he engaged him to bring in outside the church what that what preceded was a gunfight the shooter. Fired repeatedly i stood by the of pickup truck were he shelter the houseus behind him had bulls in the hall walls and windows he was a rifle instructor he shot the shooter twice. He threw down a rifle and jumped in the car and sped off steve and waved down johnny who he did not know and send Somebody Just shot the church he jumped in the truck follow the shooter and called 911 directing with the shooter was he pulled himself and finally took a gun and took his own life. The day after i spoke with them. He is a plumber. He is my interested in the Media Attention at all. Bump stock im not a hero i dont know why people use words like that i was scared out of my mind. I was terrified. But i said courage is not the absence of fear bin is acting in the face of your. Behalf a dozen Law Enforcement agents told me that day on monday that all day wednesday but had that individual citizen not engaged and not risk his life many more people would have beenn murdered that day. Illegal and the reason had firearm was a federal government screwed up. In 2013, chairman grassley and i joined together in introducing legislation. Grassley cruz. I got the most bipartisan votes of any of the comprehensive legislation voted on. A majority of the senate voted for Grassley Cruz. 52 48. Nine democrats voted. What did it do . It directed at federal agencies go through, review criminal convictions and get them in the nicks database could measure the agencies complied. If it was past the air force would have caught this and reported it to the database. And also directs the department of justice prosecute the felons in april 2016, this shooter went into an academy, light on the form, purchased a gun and if Grassley Cruz had passed he should of been prosecuted, put in jail. If he was in a federal jail he never would have murdered anyone in settlement springs. We need to stop criminals from getting guns. Thank you and colleagues. What the people on the first panel come forward. Before you sit down i would like to enter an oath. Then i will introduce you. Do you each, i will wait a minute. Do you each affirm that the testimony you are about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Each have affirmed. Please be seated. I would like to introduce before you testify. We have doctor heather wilson. The 20 with secretary of the air force. Responsible for the affairs of that department including organizing training equipment providing for welfare of nearly 660 activeduty guards, reserve and civilian forces. Doctor wilson is a graduate of the air force academy. From the university of oxford, this was followed by a distinguished career. In the United States air force. Thank you for serving your country in that capacity. From 98 until 2002 she served as a member of the us house of representatives representing new mexico. Mr. Thomas has decades of experience in Law Enforcement. He correctly or currently serves as acting director of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms and explosives. Atf for short. Been at the agency since 89. Mr. Brandon has been part of Senior Leadership atf since 2011. When he was elected deputy to the director while serving a special agent in charge of the field office throughout his time at atf mr. Brandon has also served in the National Academy as well as the number of other positions throughout the country. Mr. Douglas lindquist serves as assistant director for the fbi criminal Justice Information service division. The arm of the fbi that oversees the nicks program for mr. Lindquist has been in his position since march 2017. He has also been with the fbi since joining as a special agent in 97. Mr. Lindquist experience in the fbi has taken him all over the world including being a member of the Rapid Deployment team in africa, legal attachc lending and supervisor in the middle east unit of International Terrorism operation and counterterrorism section. Mr. Glenn find his acting Inspector General for the department of defense. It will that he is held since january 10, 2016. In this position he is responsible for detecting waste, fraud and abuse as well as promoting accountability for the entire department of defense. Hard to be active Inspector General or acting Inspector General, he was named as Department Defense Principal Deputy Inspector General june 1, 2014. We all know him because he previously had served as Inspector General doj for 11 years. I think, i did not introduce you this way but we are going to go with this order and the statement will be put in the record to the extent in which you can do it in five minutes. I never cut anybody off in exactly 5 minutes but when you see the red light go on, try to summarize. Thank you, doctor wilson. Thank you, mr. Chairman. My full statement will be the record but i like to summarize a few remarks. What happened in Sutherland Springs was absolutely awful. A mass murderer as people gather to pray. The morning after the shooting in Seven Springs a chief of staff and i directed the rapid investigation to find out what happened. Why and correct it. It was clear very early that the criminal history was not reported. And it should have been. In the weeks since, a review has determined that the breakdown in reporting was not limited to this case and it was not limited to this detachment at the air force base. The actions that we have taken since then include steps to add steps to case management. For both the office of special investigations and also the air force Security Forces. So that cases cannot be closed just at the local detachment. But headquarters must also check off the fingerprint records have been filed. One third check has been added that when the funds actually archived, the file is checked again to make sure that the fingerprints have been put on record. He have also added requirements that the person working the case. The case investing officer not only has to file this but they have to check the database to ensure that the fingerprints have been properly recorded and received by the federal database and print out a screenshot or a record of that check and file it in the air force records so that anyone looking at the record knows that the proper steps have been taken. The air force has updated his training requirements. And on 17 november we had a worldwide standdown for all offices in the office of special investigations training and reminding of what the requirements are under dod and air force policy. Over the next month, the Security Forces in the air force squadron by squadron are doing similar training. After the 2015 report, ensure there were problems with respect to reporting criminal information to the federal databases. A number of steps were taken particularly by air force osi to correct deficiencies. They were insufficient. One of the things that was not done was a complete retroactive review of the cases in the database maintained by the air force to ensure that previous cases that had not been properly reported were properly reported. General goats do not have split up to test forces of 30 people each. One for Security Forces and one in the office of special investigations to go through the air force database that goes back to 2002 to ensure that any case that was not properly reported at the time is properly reported. I wanted to thank the fbi and the department of justice for working with us and ensuring that we can make those updates expeditiously. I also wanted to comment briefly on accountability and disciplinary action. There are some things that i cannot say today and i know many of you may have questions about accountability or disciplinary action. When all of the facts are compiled and there is a final report, commanders for the advice of counsel will make decisions about any accountability or disciplinary action. I have to be careful not to prejudge the facts in a way that would amount to undo command influence by the secretary of the air force. There are still things that we have to do. We believe it will take between four and five months to complete the database review we have directed by these two taskforces. We know that in air force Security Forces we need more electronic fingerprint machines. So that every detachment of Security Forces has the modern tools that will make it more likely that fingerprint will be accepted. We have directed annual audits for compliance. Including one within the next 12 months to ensure that fixes have been made and are taking hold. We have also directed a 30 day review by the chief data officer of the United States air force. One of the factors in this situation is that we are dealing with four government agencies, no less than 10 databases and five title codes. It is a largely manual system and labor intensive. We would like to know from the chief data officer whether there are ways to improve this electronically. We are also feeding information to the department of defense Inspector General review which is looking at the department as a whole and cooperating with our colleagues writing information on what we have learned to our sister services. And finally, dave asked the air force Inspector General not just to look at reporting in this way, but what other kinds of reports are required and to make sure that we are complying with those as well. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you, madam secretary. Mr. Brandon. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Members, feinstein and distinguished senators on the Senate Judiciary committee. Thank you for giving the opportunity to be before you today. On behalf of the men and women of atf, extent heartfelt condolences to the families, friends and loved ones of those that were killed, injured and survived this horrendous attack in las vegas and Sutherland Springs, texas. As well as victims and survivors of all forms and the violence that takes too many of our communities every day. Both men and women of atf are acutely aware of the need for constant vigilance and fulfilling our mission to combat Violent Crime. Although we are a small agency, we embrace the challenge of our mission and strive to the be the best partner possible to our colleagues during investigating and technical experience to drive results but atf is the federal Agency Responsible primarily for enforcing regulatory provisions of the federal firearms laws particularly the National Firearms act of 1934 and the gun control act of 1968. Ats started to regulate firearms is of course limited by terms of the statutes and they do not empower atf to regulate parts or accessories designed to be used with firearms. Atf to regulate under the statute device in question must fit within the dental acts definition of a firearm. It must fall within one of the specific categories of weapons defined the National Firearms act. Including machine guns. Atf does not have direct authority to regulate bump stocks reclassify time not approve devices is either firearms or National Firearms act weapons. By applying the definitions in the statutes. If the device does not fall within the statutory definitions, atf has no authority to regulate the device. The horrible Las Vegas Massacre focus congressional and public attention to specific types of firearms accessories socalled bump stocks they are devices designed to facilitate a shooting technique known as bump firing. Bump firing is a technique in which the shooter uses the required energy of the semi automatic firearm to accelerate the rate of fire by bumping the gun stopped off of the shooters shoulder or other item to be engaged the trigger more quickly. With the goal of mimicking automatic fire. Some shooters are able to accomplish this technique without using any device or accessory. Beginning in 2008, atf received a series of classification requests for such bump stock devices. Classify most of these to be a firearm accessory that are not subject to nfa regulations either before the device has shot only one bullet for pulling the trigger or because the device did not appear to initiate a full automatic firing cycle. In the aftermath of the tragedy in las vegas, members of congress, including many on this committee, and the general public have asked atf to reexamine the decisions on bump stocks to decide if law can be interpreted to include these type of devices within the definition of machine gun. Atf and the department of justice has undertaken a review of the available options. And after thorough consideration, i have directed atf to initiate the process of a federal regulation interpreting definition of machine gun and the National Firearms act and gun control act to clarify whether certain bump stock devices fall within the definition. As the committee was advised as a we have initiated this by committing an advanced rulemaking to the office of management and budget. To submit formal comments to atf on supplementary topics that will inform atf decision regarding further steps in the rulemaking process. Issuance of this is the appropriate starting point in the regulatory process. I fully appreciate the desire of the public and congress at this process that it was quickly in a show the team in the atf will work tirelessly to complete the process as soon as possible. I am honored to represent atf today and to share this panel. All of these poor dedicated public servants. Thank you. Jim ingrassia, Ranking Member feinstein and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to testify about the dod office of Inspector General reviews regarding the dod submission of criminal history information for entering an fbi database. I appear before the Committee Many times in a prior capacity as Inspector General of the department of justice for 11 years from 2000 to 2011. Today i am before you again in a different capacity as head of the dod this damageb january 2016. Unfortunately, the hearing arises in part because of the tragic event when a former air force member, devin kelley, shot and killed 26 individuals at the First Baptist church in siloam springs, texas. At the request of the secretary of defense, and dod agreed to investigate what happened with regard to the criminal history records and to review more broadly the policies, practices and procedures regarding inappropriate information reported for entry in the fbi database with. We have begun the investigation and review. The dod has previously performed several reviews that have found serious deficiency in the submission of required criminal history information to the fbi. The first review in 1997 found significant gaps in the military Services Compliance with requirements to submit criminal history data to the fbi. In addition, other previous dod evaluations examined handling a specific types of investigations by military service Law Enforcement organizations. Such as Sexual Assault investigations. With handling a specific types of evidence such as dna. These requests they also found the services were not consistently submitting required data from criminal investigations to the fbi. In 2015 the dod completed another evaluation and again found noncompliance by the military services in their submission of benefits and fun of this position reports to the fbi. In february 2017, the oig opened a followup review to evaluate again whether the military services were submitting Fingerprint Cards and final disposition report for its members convicted of qualifying offenses. We reviewed the submissions for the. Of january 1 2015 until december 31, 2016. In the report, we issued yesterday, we determined that the military Services Still do not consistently submit Fingerprint Cards with final disposition report as required. Overall, 2500 Fingerprint Cards required to be submitted 601 or 24 percent were not submitted. The final disposition reports required to be submitted, 780 431 percent were not submitted. The results differed by service. The army, navy and marines failed to submit many such Fingerprint Cards of final disposition reports for the air force performed better but still had many missing Fingerprint Cards with final disposition reports. A report made a series of specific recommendations to address these serious deficiencies and ensure that all Fingerprint Cards and disposition reports be submitted as required. We also recommended that the dod take prompt action to institute oversight controls to verify compliance in the past and in the future and also to ensure that such compliance is included in military service Inspector General inspections. Finally, we recommended that the dod also ensure the other required investigative and criminal history of information such as criminal Incident Data and dna samples has been submitted for inclusion in fbi databases. The secretary of the army, navy and air force, deputy chief management officer and the undersecretary of defense for intelligence all concurred with our recommendations for the also describe actions that began taking and steps they intend to take to fully implement the recommendations. In conclusion, the dod has repeatedly found deficiencies of military Services Submission of required fingerprints, final disposition reports and other criminal history information to the fbi. It is critical that the dod fully implement our recommendations to correct past deficiencies and future lapses in reporting purely will follow up on these to make sure they fully comply with the obligation to submit to the fbi all required criminal history investigation. I look forward to answering questions. Now mr. Lindquist. Good morning. I thank you for this opportunity to appear before you to discuss the federal bureau of Investigations National instant criminal background check system or nicks the prevention act of 1993 requires firearm, federal firearms licensees to use this nicks to see if a prospective transfer would violate state or federal law. It is a Computer System designed to supply information to determine if a person is disqualified from possessing or receiving firearms by conducting a search of available records and three National Databases. The databases of the National Crime Information Center. It contains information on protection orders and other persons identified as development. And this is individuals to be prohibited from receiving a firearm or disqualifying information may not be available through the databases. This 2010, they have experienced a steady increase in the volume of background checks. The last three years have been recordsetting. This past black friday was the highest volume day in nicks history. On that one day, nicks processed over 203,000 transactions and an increase of 17,000 over the recent single director last year. In calendar year 2016 hr 15 processed the highest volume ever. Even with record numbers they continue to maintain an immediate determination rate of over 90 percent of transactions. To help them assess what records qualify for a purpose is to write Technical Support to ensure immediate information. Of the federal side the fbi continues to work with federal agencies to help identify report records in these efforts have led to significant increase the amount of Information Available. Additionally the fbi has partnered u. S. Courts to receive dispositions and judith lee electronically. Also to improve the completeness of state territorial tribal federal criminal history records contained. Also conducting teleconferences to hold meetings with state and territory travel and federal agencies to address the methods available for dispositions the partners may be having to develop a way to overcome those challenges. Every opportunity is taken to emphasize the tightly dispositions and provide awareness and the fbi work proactively with the criminal justice colleagues to make Information Available to agencies working to improve the disposition reporting for gore recently the attorneygeneral directed the fbi to work with department of defense and atf. We look forward to accomplishing this. What to insure there is access to accurate and complete information to do their job to protect the public to keep firearms away from those who should not have them. Fbi estate partners make that determination to take to work very seriously. Our heartfelt condolences go to the victims of the shootings across the country including texas and las vegas. I think the members for their dedication and along with American People and partners to join us as we discussed these matters today. Thank you, mr. Chairman. 84 stay within the time limits we have grounds of questions i will start with the director your agency two days ago started the process of interpreting the definition of the National Firearms act whether the bomb stock advice falls within the definition so can you confirm that atf has concluded it now has the authority to regulate bomb stocks . What we are pursuing is the possibility that it is possible as we go through the procedures act with advanced notice of proposed rulemaking which is it that wasnt a possibility we would not initiate a process. Many gun owners are concerned to apply to other firearms are you confident the of regulations moving forward could be written so it addresses of bomb stock issue . So what i promised to use with the administrative procedures act that we receive from the public from the public and industry members to use that information to go on the next that. , cannot promise anything other than to follow the rules and also evaluate and categorized. My next question is obvious after you received comments is it possible the atf will conclude it cannot regulate bomb stocks . I cannot answer that question at this time. Secretary wilson according to most recent report of air force has failed to reply when does report 60 of its cases as will the of force in london share for special Office Reports only 2 so can you please explain that discrepancy and what stop steps your taking to fix the problem . There are two elements of Law Enforcement with the office of special investigations which generally investigates crimes under punishable for more than one year in prison for those on the individual basis they are organized by responsibility is to make sure both of these organizations comply with respect to Security Forces a number of things we are doing like Global Training to make sure that every Security Force of this has electronic fingerprints capability adding in on the next airforce Inspector General inspection also be have promulgated a new training for all personnel that only how to do fingerprints but how to file those with a National Database and as i mentioned in my Opening Statement statement, looking up the database structure to see if there is a better way to do this. Bumps stock is not a complicated device it could be a piece of plastic that the bump stocks could be made by a somebodies three the printer so given of simplicity so how does the atf proposal to regulate this . As far as the first part of your question with reprinting with rapid advancements that is possible from some of the briefings we have seen from the technical us experts as with any regulation i will just go back to adhere to definitive procedures act plan and keep the committee informed. The Inspector General from the department of defense said in 1997 to take steps to improve the are reporting and in that report issued 31 percent was not reported with the fbi so why have they failed to do their job . It looks like there is a variety of issues and inadequate training they did not take these recommendations as seriously as they should have there is a lot of people involved they should have been more conscientious and there are steps that need to be taken as secretary wilson has mentioned but there needs to be somebody responsible with a dedicated effort to make sure this is fixed. Senator feinstein i will step out if i am not back please takeover. Director, i want to thank you fran your people as i have learned over the last 25 years atf has a hard job i think you in your people for doing the. When did this information to fail a background check and has failed what is the of process, if any that they avert local Law Enforcement enforcement . I appreciate your support to atf and youre genuine concern for Public Safety with those victims from las vegas came from california. But maya the standing is the fbi is entered into ncic and i would refer to my colleague to notify local Law Enforcement. So can you answer that question . I will check on that to verify. That is important to me but i want you to know that director, what is the main reason for the large numbers of Domestic Violence not being entered into those files . Or the interstate identification index . Are they not submitted and which set moat sickbed the most and least or if they are in complete for conducting a background check . It is difficult with 4. 5 mentalhealth entries in the system. Goslow. You had 4. 5 million disqualifying in trees . According to the Health Industries that is where they are housed. People who are mentally ill . Not necessarily been injured in case there is an application so we have those records adjudicated through the system to put them into a Mental Health institution those are the qualifications there are probably more records out there that we dont have but also the main challenges. The misdemeanor crimes to be laid out in the of radioactive is complicated to be ready for the examiners to go through with a threat to a fact of violence that is the relationship established and of course, it has to be a misdemeanor at that point of hire criminal matters. How do you sort that out . Education is the main way to get the word out to the public to make them aware we do need that Information Available. You do that . Yes maam. Okay. Going back to the director members pushing for policy to limit the atf ability to make commonsense updates to require sellers to report suspicious transactions to have dangerous ammunition so can you describe how these impact the atf ability for safety . As you know what we are sensitive to we can i use appropriated funds that is inappropriate sorry cannot expend any energy to do that because we would be violating the law. So what impact have they had specifically . I will ask you in writing. Like to give a full summary response to your written request. I will give you their written request because i am interested, i have been here 25 years watching year after year after year i have seen your agency crippled effectively and we need to do something about that. Im done. Senator . I will summarize the National Crime Information Center has information from three databases . Not exactly. You are referring to ncic with the brady act to make sure we have the Information Available one subset is of ncic that has the protection orders. That is what i was getting to it is unjust convictions but also people with restraining orders and protective orders and domestic disputes and people with Mental Health commitments . Where is that reflected . Yes. 07 three records that we check for back and check and weapons purchases so first there are those that are arrested and convicted of crimes of that information is entered the fbi has information in those can be protection orders as well then whenever doesnt fit in those kerry categories we can refer to those as well. It seems complicated. I have learned to work with it but nationwide the backbone of this system that has some people go from the side of the road the first thing they checked his ncic that is for their use so they know who they are dealing with. Then they will check the next one for a criminal history we want them to know who theyre dealing with. One of the ancillary uses are for weapons purchases. Is there anything the federal government can do with the state that fails to upload Mental Health protective orders . With that background check system . Mcfadyen is the challenge to be frank and dressing legislation to see the benefit. The short answer is they cannot compel the state. Correct me can just incentivize the state to facilitate that that is one of the problems we have ran into like Virginia Tech that was a disqualifying yvette but because virginia did not supply that information. So we have two problems secretary wilson talked about the military mr. Fine talk about the military and defense which was then keeping whole a gaping hole but to deal with the sovereign states to incentivize them to provide information and of course, that is what we are trying to you do with legislation not only have this accountability and disciplinary consequences that secretary wilson talked about when a federal official doesnt comply with federal law but also to deal with those state governments. After sandy hook we tried to look at the Mental Health issues and provided additional tools to Family Members in the 21st Century Shares to help Family Members intercede when they know theyre mentally ill but not compliant with Doctors Orders receiving treatment but it seems there is no cause and effect with the prevention of that tragedy with the background check system but as you have described with a criminal convictions Domestic Violence than protective orders with those Mental Health commitments. So secretary wilson so with those results of the pending investigation so those settings this case decide what can the of military or department of defense to to make sure that those that implement the process that they actively do their job . Is a possible that this has a negative impact that the Commanding Officer does not do their job . That the carrier can be ended to have some needs of enforcing this what would you suggest . One of the things we have put in place are taxed at Different Levels of command is a failure to file a fingerprint card because as you close the case you cannot disclose that the regional commander, this has been done but with respect to future accountability to make sure this does not happen again one of the most important things this is a special interest item to the command to the review in the next 12 months the audit agency will audit those results showing up. Senator . This hearing is important but does not begin to address all of problems to hold for hearings between 2014 and 2015 but the rest we have a number of pieces of legislation that would pass the senate but unfortunately have not looked at this since. And we found out in the hearings and i would direct this to you no matter how tough the zero laws are coming it is easy for the gun shows of mine with the straw purchasers to buy a gun is that then go to criminal gangs with no background checks. That doesnt make a difference. Whether straw purchaser or the san berninas shooter even though they knew the shooter was planning a terrorist attack but he did know what specific attack. But 14 people died. But that would not close a loophole that all. I am a gun owner. I have competed in shooting matches and college i actually have a pistol range at my home. And it is a home for democrats also. [laughter] but the point that i am making is that this law should be tightened you worked on the appeal for a number of years but there are some challenges. Senator, thank you for your question i am again owner also for i have often said i of trendsetter democrats and republicans raising your hand if you are in favor of gun violence nobody goes up but to knowingly transfer a firearm in commission of Violent Crime is a harder element to prove to your point traditionally we have relied to try to protect firearms trafficking so we use those laws you have given us and forcing us to the best of your ability and one of the charges that i flat out sometimes cases are simple or complex but also they should be good with an impact. So that takes the statutes you have given us trying to do the best we can with them to go after the trigger puller and the trafficker. That israel be focus our efforts to reduce gun violence. Talk about the laws that we have. Those that say we have to do this because it is a conspiracy to begin nationwide seizure of guns. The the atf was to trace the origin to the boxes in a warehouse. If you have a recall holon your car it is done electronically. If you go after a gun that kills people check that out on paper. It seems like one hell of a burden on lawenforcement. It is the law and we comply with it. The incidents that we have talked about today are tragedies i dont want anything that i say today to be construed as undermining the fact. Inspector general, have you seen a lot of waste in government . Had you seen a lot of stupidity and government . Can we agree that training is expensive but that employees are more expensive . Your microphone is not on director, all things being equal when it comes to the right to own a gun who is better able to make that decision . Those were governing or governed . I would defer to this body for the fact you are governing those that have elected you to do so it is representation so we try to do that to enact the laws that you as a body have put out there to the best of our ability. No disrespect but that is a nice dog. Let me offer a thought. There are some people in this world who are not confused and theyre not sick and conduct is not determined by the fact their mother or father did not love them enough it is just bad when a radical islamic jihadist of duck say young girl and turns her into a sex slave we are told not to judge the actions of all muslims by the conduct of one. Do you agree with that . I know from my working counterterrorism and Violent Crime cases with the special agent in charge. But he would read . I have heard that. Do you agree . Is inappropriate to blame 90 million because of the actions of people . I know were trying to enforce the system please ask esther know i have other questions if you dont want to answer just tell me were trying to enforce that but youre right 90 percent of those are law abiding citizens. Director have you ever heard the expression you can fix stupid you can fire it . No sir. Would you agree . [laughter] without giving it deeper but it sounds like a catchy phrase. Youre pretty good at dodging also. What do you think is a the best way . Those within the state and federal bureaucracy you are supposed to report data surely will agree with me on that . The more information that can get there that is accurate and complete i getting it let me try it this way what the thinking is the best way to enforce to require this information to be turned into the system with the bureaucracy at the state and federal level . And we give you extra money how about we get into the real world and if you dont youre fired . Because nobody around here ever gets fired madam secretary. Im done. With your permission i will yield to my colleague senator whitehouse because he has an obligation on the floor. The deal. I appreciate that courtesy. My question is for director brandon and in my years as u. S. Attorney the atf office was terrific you have made big cases with a small office will mean in san highperformance and it was terrific talent to express my appreciation for my colleagues then and now. Thank you for that because now there are men and women all the countries serving warrants i know they will hear what you said so sincerely i say thank you. We are here because of the general proposition, of the insurers into it searching for that database that will fail sodalite to ask you a few questions for ballistics information. What is your view as the acting director of atf powell that collection of data that goes into that system . Are we catching that data that this hearing is about as a better collection were to have attention there are not gaps in the system as well . As testifying previously where i spoke back in october when the police chief establishes policy a and culture emended is quite effective and to take that assessment instead of the scientific confirmation with the assistant chief cincinnati pd kim up to me that the International Association and said i have to complement we had a shooter shoot at the Police Headquarters missing or officer within 12 hours indicates and went through the Training Center through alabama and within 24 hours we had a match to the three of the shootings and his detectives had three guys locked up within 72 hours so it is quite effective with proper policies. And has led to the rest of the triple murders and a Police Officer and insignificant in gaining a rest and cold cases it is a valuable tool but i know this wasnt the focus of the hearing that in the universe of data that should be coming in for that database so the searches can be effective how much do you think is . 10 or 50 99. 9 . It has improved i will get back to you. I appreciate your service and support and crime solving capabilities. A akio. Mr. Chair thank you for being here today going back to the timeline of the regulations regarding the above stock and with that best Case Scenario if you determine that you can do so . I was told once it led be approved there is a 30 day Comment Period to have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands would get each one into a mood categorize that if they have to report back to the committee to give that time frame. We are probably talking about months the way that it plays out with the notice of Public Comments and gathering is a multi month proposition manual minimum is that a fair characterization . Yes, sir. The new did respond i think to the chairmans question that the end result is perhaps you dont have the authority to regulate bump stocks could that occurred after a review . That is a possibility. Raising the question of allowing the rules to be promulgated for Public Comment but Congress Still exists to move forward and sometimes more quickly and that is something we shall book out than bleeding to find out to specifically find out on the above stock issue. You said there were 10 bit data bases as far as our investigation . It is across for agencies looking ahead the specifics are we being more holistic it is one thing to do take a look at who made a mistake in this case but there brothers with that outcome in texas are we looking more broadly at what they should be doing . Has a more systematic problem not just with the root causes but one of the systemic problems. Looking had all of dod have we done any work to make any recommendations to automate the process . Eric is Enormous Technology within the department of defense there are differing systems and that is the problem there needs to be more standardization in our view needs to be a broader look but we are looking of the policies and practices not just to the air force the army and the navy in the defense agencys. Also is in just the problem and the department of defense i am quite certain it is another problem and other agencies as well. I actually think we should look at bill jolla of government with the approach and i will say in deference to senator kennedy to have people come before the committee but some promulgation of the database better not properly funded or instructed to modernize and real need to recognize what we need to do to properly resources the agency said is this something you can fax in the majority of the people working in the agencys. I want to express my thanks for holding this very important hearing with my colleagues for their heartfelt and moving statements. I can tell them as we approached the fifth anniversary of sandy hook they will continue to look in the eye the families and loved ones of the victims who died in those massacres to have that same sense of heartbreaking and grief but also the families and loved ones of victims of gun violence who died one by one in neighborhoods across the country and every Community Across this country. Every day. That is why i want to thank the groups letter represented here today because they represent the victims across the country from their personal experience the toll that it takes and how truly preventable if it is in the have joined with other senators with legislation on both stock legislation but also bump stock legislation but also background check purchases as well us other measures this is just the beginning but would you agree that the state reporting of convictions is abjectly inadequate currently . It is lacking, yes senator. Something should be done he immediately and urgently to fix the broken reporting system . There are many states in the system with the Law Enforcement community. But would you agree it is a majority of states. I think it is a majority of the representative population. One way or the of their inputs our people and lawenforcement in danger because they are the ones who are at the other end of baghdad on sunday he should be barred from having that. Does the department of justice take a position on the proposal. Not yet. Wed you agree. I have not read it entirely but it does have benefits. Mr. Fine, i am struck by the failure of the department of defense to comply with a lot. Year after year and after repeated devaluations. Day you have any explanation lack of verification they did not make this an item on their inspections and the problem not taking responsibility. Event report says it should go back to make sure those convictions are entered . Through 1998. Will but that 2015 with significant problems we think there are problems all the way back we recommended they go back at least after 1998 monday were required to do it. I agree also do you agree there should be greater accountability with the discipline with the failure to do adequate reporting . I do believe accountability should occur faster retraining and verification and if they dont do that then there should be accountability. Wed you agreed uniform code of military justice on Domestic Violence as a felony . Currently Domestic Violence is under article 128 there is a proposed revision in the manual for Court Martial with enhanced penalties for assault against a Family Member and i think it has been published and is pending so the question in my mind is if we need to change the statute or of the enhanced penalty is sufficient. Would you agree that an article on Domestic Violence would send a message to the military men and women that Domestic Violence simply will not be tolerated . It does send a message of live like to work three you what a attorneys have identified as the unintended consequences. I hope you support the proposal. I would like to thank the panel in everyone who has come here today to remind us of the millions of families that have been touched we are currently struggling with the state of gun violence we are small city but we have had 160 shooting incidents. We have looked to nbc of great assistance end the struggle as a community how to address this violence with one small window into what we see nationally the mass shooting incidents described earlier then their routine daily violence that plagues whole country i am hopeful we can make bipartisan progress with the bill bump stock but to pursue a space questioning as began earlier about it is a crime to try to buy a firearm if the law prohibits . Yes, sir,. How many of those are prosecuted . Dont know the answer. But you agree if a person tries to buy a firearm but is denied them there likely to go somewhere else . As possible. Possible or likely. At all know it is i know the answer. Is a predictor if they try and are denied. So would be helpful if they knew of them legal attempt before they succeed succeed . Cancer yes, sir. Simitar recent report says last year alone there were 4,000 instances where individuals were committed to purchase a firearm despite the background check process why is the number of those failures increasing so much . My supposition is the number background checks have increased astronomically since 2010 the of 14 million background checks that is a tremendous strain with the point of contact that is allowed under the brady act that is the only reason i can think of succor the brady act within three Business Days if we ask for further information that they canceled the end they can sell it at that point if we get the disqualifying information we get it back out. With the unlawful firearms is particularly dangerous. And now to possess wonder to weapons and for those under dangerous . Directing store the question my executive team and i made it a priority in fact, i have a monthly briefing where we track to see how it is trending up and down with the volume of sales me via the perception all these people are violent sometimes they are not prohibited with a thorough investigation but that it is a priority to atf and real and that so with that discretion they get our full attention. So in closing this is an area i think we should have bipartisan agreements with the fbi and atf to make sure those who should not have access dont reporting between federal agencies and in particular some of it is riveted is denied that opportunity information is shared the best way to stop the violence is to make sure under current law are not allowed to have firearms so thank you for your testimony for todays hearing is an important issue to work on. I think the panelist for coming today along with many of my colleagues to have the ongoing violence with the restricting or banning of high capacity magazines alike to follow up on a question because it did have a bill that is not objecting to and that has to do with the fact that in 2012 with a general Court Martial there is no specific charge for Domestic Violence so my bill closes that loophole not just a general Assault Charges so that would include the partners would that bring clarity . This case should have been reported and is not it is clearly marked as a crime of Domestic Violence and was reported of it would help or hurt and afraid i cannot answer that question for you now. But that can be cleared up with there is no specific charge this involving Domestic Violence but that would be a reasonable way to clarify the situation. I have not looked in detail in that disqualifying offense. And then there is no specific charge so that could be something that could insure they are more accurately coated or noted we will analyze this data is recorded as such with the general category of assault that could be a problem. My point exactly if there is a specific charge that is left to somewhere down the line. And to indicate to me there is a connection those with Domestic Violence. There is a charge between Domestic Violence as many cities . I will take the question. Moussa money has a firearm because that shows a close partner love one to prevent gun violence for happening. Sexual assault or any type of assault is a priority that needs to be addressed. Ended its day high priority should there be an assault the you are fully apprised. When issuing a report in 2015 what it does the Obama Administration do in response . Either one . So to make recommendations to the services. Coming into office here. Yes. En to questions to submit senator gramm and dole . Our like to pursue the questions it in writing with all of you subsequent to the hearing. Extraordinary personal danger to himself and i think we should be extraordinarily grateful for your service and sacrifice. I want to ask you a quick question about this advanced notice of rulemaking. Youve been asked about the amount of time. It could be months, but it could be years because there could be a challenge after the rule if there is a rule. There would be a challenge in court and in fact the challenge could use the previous statements that have been made. I have one in front of me did june 7, 2010 and i would ask to be made a part of the record. They are not regulated under the gun control act because there are a number of states like this one, correct . In fact, you personally told a meeting in philadelphia area recently that federal law would probably require a new statue to be effective, correct . I think you said the present law doesnt cover it. Thank you for the question. What i was saying is they are lawful and however it was asked to take a fresh look at it because the letters ive received from the senators and congressmen and women on both sides to keep an eye and open minded to do something. It hit everybody hard, so whatever capacity we had w they kept an open mind to do the advanced notice of proposed rulemaking. Whatever we can do to the people sitting behind here ive been at scenes with gun violence. Whatever we could do we try to do. And i appreciate that and hope the body will act and i think you for your sincere desire. Thanks to the panel and i think we get about a week to submit questions so since there is a lot of absenteeism may be some questions from people that were not here. While we are with the other panel, please hurry and i am going to let you sit down and while you are being seated, im going to introduce you at the same time. On october 1, working at the route 91 harvest Country Music festival las vegas when he began firing on the festival from the 32nd floor mandalay bay hotel. When the firing began, this witness didnt lead but instead helped move injured individuals out of harms way. She then helped to comfort a fatally wounded man. She stayed with th demand for hs after the shooting, notifying and comforting friends and loved ones. In this role he is responsible for directing the operations of the Office Support of administration and serves as the director of the Judicial Council and the organization tasked will continually study the administration for the methods of improvement. Formerly the secretary on the board of directorboard of direcs association for drug court professionals. Hes worked in the Texas Judicial Branch in various roles since 98. A senior fellothe senior fellowe independent Institute Think Tank based in Oakland California also taught legal and political philosophy at george mason university, howard university, tuskegee institute. Hes argued cases before the Supreme Court, author of several books on Second Amendment and gun control. One of the books is titled the founder Second Amendment right to bear arms, and another one that every man be armed the evolution of a constitutional right which have appeared in several legal journals. Chief j. Thomas has been the chief of police in Montgomery County maryland since february, 2004 and began his Law Enforcement career in 1977 Fairfax County Virginia Police department ultimately becoming chief of police 98. He has received multiple awards including the Community Champion award for the Youth Leadership foundation and the Victims Rights Foundation Public Safety award. Additionally hes currently the president of the major chief association and also knows very well the chief of police of cedar rapids iowa, my home sta state. David is the Research Director at the independent institute in colorado and associate policy analyst for cato and the adjunct professor of constitutional law and author of several books go on and titled the truth about gun control and whats wrong with federal Law Enforcement, how to fix it. Shes also been featured on the National Media programs and work has been published in several legal journals and we are going to go in the same way that i introduced you. Chairman grassley, Ranking Member feinstein and members of the committee i thank you for inviting me to speak here today. I was in Las Vegas Nevada and also for christine and heather from las vegas and reno sitting behind me today. Before i tell my story i need to disclose something to the committee. I am not antigun. I am pro Second Amendment but i support senator feinstein bill. Othese are not for hunting, they are not for target practice, they are for hurting people and have no place in our general society. I hope my story will help you understand why. The harvest 91 Music Festival has been going on for four years. This was my second year of landing a highly coveted bartending job in my first year at the house of blues one of the main bars in the festival ground. People come from over the world for the event at around 10 p. M. That night of the first round of gunshots peppered the festival grounds. I remember hearing a loud noise and thinking it was feedback from the speakers or maybe fireworks. People were still dancing. Then everyone started to rush in all directions, trampling the bar in pushing for the backdoors. First i though felt a group wasg to form a vip area until i started hearing screening. Shooter, ghana, help me. I would buy a second round of gunshots. There were people covered with blood over their bodies. My own i dont care for continued as they help concertgoers go through the backdoor hoping they would be safe. As people try to help others over the fence i joined about 20 others to push the fed so they could run. I went to the vip to check on the other bartenders, thats when another set of gunshots ring out in front of my bar. My coworkecar. My coworker was only spared by hiding behind an atm and saved another bartender in the process. Next to them the woman got hit by the raining bullets. I ran down the stairs and got pulled into the bathroom trailer. I had a moment to call them on and sister and pulled them in separate phone calls they are going to hear some really scary things on the news and most of it is true but for now i was okay. The sets of shots started pinging off the metal around us and we tried to stay as quiet as possible. Through the entire ordeal at any point i expected to look up in to see a gun man standing right in front of me ready to shoot. After the round of gunfire everyone scrambled for the gate but for whatever reason, i ran back into the bar. The first thing i thought was a woman bleeding down her leg. I asked if shed fallen and she said no. I looked down and saw the first bullet holes. I asked a man running to help carry her out back. But then someone else came in driving a man by his fingers. He was hit in the fight and andk is like falling. I grabbed an arm and helped pull him through. At this point, there were six to eight already injured and more before wounded continue to grow. I ran for help. Every two minutes someone else was running in. There was one carrying a girl shot in the back. I helped him adjust her on a rug and found out later looking at pictures that she hadnt made it. I ran back and told everyone else ihelp is on the way. Strangers started pulling up in trucks and cars volunteering to drive the injured to hospital while myself and others helped carry them to the makeshift ambulances. At one point i got called over to build a jean jacket to help stop the bleeding. We shouted for him to wake up. He was breathing but he wasnt conscious. A jacket she jacket down and i t wanting the whole in the victims had with my bare fingers. His name is chris and he died the next day. I met the victim who have become a main part of my story. There was a letter used as a makeshift stretcher and three men called me over to grab a letter. I held it with one hand and touched his hand and his fingers lightly touched mine. When our group reached the sidewalk area deemed safe they put the ladder down. The man asked if i was okay as i was covered in chriss blog. I told him it wasnt my blood. They ran back to help continue helping and i kept holding this mans hand and then his hand stopped holding mine. I showed him that there was nothing we could do. They asked how they could help but what do you say. Someone draped a tshirt over his face and for some strange reason i felt compelled to stay and sit with the body. I felt attached. I saw others lying alone and i didnt want him to be left alone. I was Still Holding his hand. The person on the other end of the line asked who is this why are you answering my friends phone. I asked them who are you and where are you calling from, the other voice said im trying to reach george, British Columbia maple ridge. I have to tell them he died. I told them to call his parents. Pulling off his wallet i took a picture of his id and send it to everybody on his friends list. Do you know this man, then came a call from his mother and i found out that his girlfriend amber was also at the festival. We got a hold of her and she asked if he okay and i said no. She asked if he got shot and i said yes. She said hes breathing, right and i said hes not breathing. Hbreathing. Hes dead. Breathing. He said. She said are you sure, hes the love of my life. I said hes gone. I made a promise i would stay no matter what so that amber would know when the Emergency Personnel took him away. I knew i wouldnt leave his side because there were only two of us there that knew who he was. I called jordans mom back. She asked if he was okay and i realized we never told her he had passed. I had to tell her that he had died. I have to tell her, from a complete stranger in another country, but her only child had been murdered. I kept my promise not to leave his side and stayed with him for over four hours during the night. When police and Emergency Personnel arrived i told them about jordan and i promised not to leave until a new day had his girlfriend. It was about 3 30 in the morning when they got a hold of her. Covered in blood, exhausted and crying i made it home still not be reading or understanding what happened. When i asked myself in the days following why i stayed with a strangers body, i could only answer but i hoped someone would do the same for me. I didnt want jordan to be a john doe, his death mattered and i wanted him to be remembered. I dont know why i didnt run. I had mor have more than one opportunity. I still dont know. Im not that strong. Im not that special and im not a hero or an angel. But something that would be run into something compelled me to help chris and jordan and others whose names i still dont know, and as i mentioned a moment ago i may have stayed because i hoped someone would do the same for me. I did it because i wouldnt want to be forgotten. But the truth is none of us want to be forgotten, and i would ask the committee not forget all the lives that were lost that day. Alalthough iall the lives affecy and all the lives that could be affected in the future. Thank you. Thank you. You are brave. Chairman, Ranking Member and senators, thank you for loving me to testify on state court reporting. My name is david and im testifying on behalf of the state Court Administrators. When the current administrator of the texas office of court at ministration. The membership consists of the Principal Court Administrative Officer for each state and territory is dedicated to be improved in state court systems. Systems. State Court Administrators are responsible for implementing policy programs for the judicial systems. As you know state courts handle 98 of all judicial proceedings in the country. Id like to share about the texas reporting. In texas for information about arrests and prosecution for various criminal offenses are entered by Law Enforcement, jails, prosecutors and courts and in the criminal Justice Information system. Those entries populate the systems that have been previously mentioned. Information about Mental Health is submitted by the clerks and forwarded the next database. To be clear, ensuring records are accurately and properly entered into the database takes concerted effort by all of those that contribute to systems. This is due to the complexity of the system and various stakeholders who may contribute records. They are paperbased and need to be converted to an electronic format. Some states including texas do not have a single automated Computer System that contains the records and may require automation upgrades and adoption of legislation to fully comply with the standards. As you know it is only as good as the records it contains and we feel texas made Great Strides in improving the Mental Health and Domestic Violence disqualifies. This is in large part due to the funding received that enable texas to concentrate its efforts on improving those available. In 2012 and 2013 texas office os office of Court Administration received a Record Improvement Program grant from the United States department of justice to develop a plan for improving reporting and assist clerks and reviewing cases to identify Mental Health records to be reported. Mental Health Records from texas increased by 69 between the time he received the grant and last friday. In addition to the efforts made on the Mental Health records, and working to ensure records related to the convictions and Family Violence protection orders are entered into the systems. Fiscal 2013 we received another grant to improve reporting of Domestic Violence records in the database. We established a task force to study the issue and make recommendations to improve reporting. The task force developed modules to assist and recommended improved timeliness in entering the records. Those became texas law requires the court clerkthatrequires thed Law Enforcement to transmit the protective orders and thre in to four Business Days after the protective order is entered. Prior to this it was silent as of the time frame under which the orders were to be provided to the Law Enforcement or entered into the system that would populate the system. Without the federal funding in the projects, the improvements in texas likely wouldnt have occurred. Perhaps the greatest challenge theanyone to report records in e issue of resources. Most have fewer resources to develop. Thanks to his bill to fix the legislation this reauthorizes those i previously described and we ask congress fully fund an appropriation for the grant programs. Because of the particular challenge they have been automating the records to the federal repositories we asked the state courts be included in discussions at the federal and state level as to how they improve the databases administered by the state agencies for this purpose. Because the system has records from the three databases it is difficult for the state courts and other agencies to verify the number of records available. The inability to determine whether it contains the records anticipated limits the ability to determine if the systemic issues were recorded. We suggested they be given access to allow the states to verify the number of records available at. In closing i want to express my appreciation for the judiciary committees recognition of the courts role. The state courts look forward to working with the committee to develop legislation that addresses the shortcomings in the system and considers that the varied needs in the country. We commend her recognizing the National Interest and ensuring that our judiciary and courts be part of the solution. Thank you for the opportunity to testify in iowa for answering any questions that you may have. Thank you for the opportunity. The definitions in the act i was privileged to recognize a majority in both houses of congress. Everybody here is on the same page and we sympathize with the victims. I think the problem is what are the solutions. One thing i think everybody is on the same page about. It was initiated in 1998 that the records be reported from federal departments and agencies. The improvement act in 2008 correctly stated the departments and agencies had to report the record and yet theres been no oversight. We have so many new laws being advocated to make life harder and we dont have enforcement of what is on the books. Its what you do to discipline employees and instead we are to the point they will not get the bonus pay. There are some improvements that can take place in the bill particularly involving the pie agencies and initiate the protection of the records directly with originating. We have the appeals and people are wrongfully denied. There is a problem putting it on the person who is denied and not doing things the system could due directly to verify and correct records. Its kind of a complex issue so i will move on. It states ia state that doesnto the conversion of the machine guns. I think the language that is disturbing in the legislation is that it would ban any part to accelerate the rate of fire in the automatic rifle. It has a lot to do with authority that it has a 10pound trigger pull so its more efficient, more reliable and more accurate your going to increase the rate of fire. There are several other aspects and again the more you decrease that, potentially the higher the rate of fire. We are talking about simple weapons of automatic rifles that phrase is the Second Amendment issues. They are semi automatic. Theres also it is also a proble definition. How would one know if it is taking 1. 4 seconds to pull the trigger it might take 1. 2. We have ten years of incarceration and its the same thing in a firearm. Some people can learn how so youve got to have a definition. It is not a conversion kit. You have some discussion about the proposed rulemaking and we have to keep in mind. This body makes criminal laws, not an agency. I will close by mentioning all the previous gun control legislation you either have a grandfather clause or amnesty. People can register and. We need to have some kind of a discussion about what do you do with all of those that are out there and with machine guns you have a grandfather and those that are registered or continue to be lawful and take something thats not even a weapon. Theres got to be some kind of way to an hourly rate that situation. Chairman grassley, Ranking Member, thank you for holding the hearing. I know it is a very politically sensitive issue, but its one that we need to talk about. Im representing Law Enforcement and the Largest Police agencies around the country. Im here to speak for the men and women who and the victims of gun violence and to speak for the officers have been killed by gun violence. On behalf of american Law Enforcement, it is our greatest hope for negative republicans can come together and talked issues to protect the public from harm because Public Safety shouldnt be a partisan issue. Can violence continues to be the number one threat for homicide in major cities and worse yet have witnessed a number of Business Elite could do thidevas others we discussed here today had demonstrated a. Similar devices have no purpose and likewise, the screening process for individuals looking to purchase a firearm or ammunition has had many loopholes for far too long. 1100 rounds in a matter of minutes and in the history of the nation. They were outfitted from the accessory that you were considering today. The deadly device has only one purpose, it enables a gun into flying around at a speed equivalent. While it is illegal for private citizens to possess fully automatic weapons are. He likewise calls for action by congress. A gunman enters the Baptist Church where he murders 26 individuals and injured 20 others. They later reported they found 50 rifle magazines each one capable of pulling 30 rounds. This hearing today as it is demonstrated this killer should have been barred from the purchase of firearms or ammunition because of its Mental Health history and convictions. He was charged with assaulting his wife and fracturing his Childs School and made Death Threats against the officers who charged him and he was caught sneaking various firearms and air force base where he worked. The case also raises a broader question for the committee does the current law adequately cover Mental Health and Domestic Violence. He was admitted to a Mental Health care facility in new mexico after his threats against others and himself and he was apprehended and brought back to be taken for courtmartial is later found he used them to use numerous weapons and tactical gear. Thats why we strongly support the proposal to strengthen the act of 2017 is a major step to strengthen Communications Efforts to ensure federal agencies in states wil and state the implementation plans and correct correct deficiencies that result in persons being clear that shouldnt purchase firearms. Theres a long overdue measure to strengthen and faith and lifes a hearing today that are the most recent reminders of what we have already known. We knew after Charleston South Carolina where nine were killed by a white supremacist or where daddy giffords was shot and 13 others, blackbird virginia persons looked through the process. So the committee is focused on cases where they should have barred a bunker gun purchase that this is incomplete and only part of the problem. A man was in morgantown West Virginia was able to buy a gun and murder people for the previous kidnapping sentenced to ten years in prison for abducting a former girlfriend. As a background check would have been if he was able to buy a 9millimeter handgun for the purchase on facebook. As the chiefs of police we asked the committee wh why do congress require background checks for some gun purchases but not all of them. Even if the killer had been barred from he could have purchased weapon elsewhere. Thithe weapon elsewhere. This isnt a controversial top topic. They said they would vote for a measure requiring criminal background checks on all gun sales so i will close where i began and call for a Bipartisan Coalition to curb gun violence. We ask that you today make to pay the beginning of a conference of dialogue to strengthen legislation to curb gun violence. I will tell you the chiefs and sheriffs of the country will be with you every step of the way. The Law Enforcement educators and trainers for the lawenforcement officers to train the rest of Law Enforcement and i represented them in the Supreme Court and madonna versus chicago and i represented colorado sheriffs and other lawenforcement organizations across the country in support of the Second Amendment rights. Before the coverage began a user provided a video showing the tower in the crowd. To me it sounded like automatic gunfire. There is much we do not know about the crime and the criminal abuse allowed him to fire his ordinary guns as fast as they go automatic. Under current federal law they are very stringent. The District Of Columbia versus heller, the Supreme Court decided not such were protected by the Second Amendment to the. Many devices that make a normal fire are already highly regulated. Based on the wording of the statute, they correctly ruled they were not within the scope of the present statute. Congress has the authority to change the law. Any realistic cloth must account for people that already on the items in question in their tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of such people being realistic is especially important. Unfortunately, it has no provision for grandfathering and takes 180 days after the act. Some will but others will be driven underground pushed outside of the system. A better policy could have been adopted by the atf when items are classified. For example, 1994, the atf decided to three particular ther models of shotguns are covered by the 1934 National Firearms act and therefore had to be federally registered. Because atf is changing its mind about guns that previously had been bought and sold as ordinary gun is, they offered a sevenyear registration period. It would likely pass constitutional muster with the courts and advocates for automatics are outside the scope of the Second Amendment and decided that bump stocks degrade accuracy making it less suited for selfdefense or hunting. Please use has been ranged novelties and not selfdefense items. Unfortunately the definition doesnt even define a bump stocks, but it does go much further. It prohibits anything that is defined or functions to accelerate the rate of fire in the semi automatic rifle was not semi automatic rifle into a machine gun. This is insane extremely overbroad. One thing that functions to accelerate the fire of the semi automatic gun cleaning tools when you remove the debris from the gunpowder and blood residue, you make the parts move together better. As with any mechanical tool, cleaning makes it work faster. Certainly he didnt end and thatatthe top of poorly written language goes. If you change the trigger pull on a gun from six counts to four because youbecause your hand stt as strong as the average persons, that would be prohibited and people that have had jobs in the past bears would be outlawed and become tenured federal felons. Other things that function to accelerate include better grips that help help them stabilize te rifle and they are able to fire faster. It helps them stabilize the firearm and therefore help function to accelerate the rate of fire. They pushe push the bullet downd some of them come backward and some of it dissipates elsewhere. The changes might only be excavation and the rate of a fw thousands or hundredthousand 40d but they are all captured by the generic catchall language that would be significantly improved if it were only about bump stocks it would provide a scrutiny. The way its written it wouldve been semi automatic rifles in the Supreme Court case. Ordinary repairs and modifications would violate the Second Amendment. Specifically to the semi automatic rifle parts in any kind of part that is used is more efficient than some other part of what he accomplished in this language. It makes all the difference, so there is been too much of an effort i think and sometimes to conflate semi automatic fire one round when its pulled with automatic gun. It is something that fires as full automatic so legislation that respects due process would violate the Second Amendment and i think that would be reasonable. In your analysis how might it have a current definition of machine gun. The bump stocks that doesnt use any mechanical device like a special spring wouldnt be a conversion kit. Theres a burbling eyesight in my testimony where they found it because of the use of a sprain that would be accomplished in the machine gun conversion kit language. You end up with a Manual Movement thats required for every shot. Do you have anything to add . Iin four five years two or mores and that is the statute that they have to apply. It doesnt seem that it fits within that. So, i will be intrigued to see how it works its way through that statutory language given the high level of chevron deference used to on that judicial review. What should be done . There are two choices we have present in the historical origins. You could allow them to be registered and grandfathered as it was done multiple times in 1986 you have more of the conversion kit definition for example in a grace period they were allowed to be entertained and ientered andthen it couldnd or you could have complete grandfathering of those that were in existence on the date of enactment or as was done with magazines and semi automatic rifles that were banned in the 1994 legislation since you could have a grandfather clause or to get a registration system. If theres no grandfathering it can make things more dangerous. I want to point out california has a law since 2012 but says an activating device designed so that when attached to a semi automatic firearm it increases the rate of fire and that is prohibited. If we try to do is make this simple, direct and understandable. But the point is it is unlawful to possess a device attachment or accessory. I can change the language but it was drafted by attorneys that know their stuff so we will see. Everything in this area is tough to get done. It gets worse and worse and they cant step up and do anything about it. This is one small thing that couldnt be done. It coul could hope to keep helps off the market. But id want t i want to say soo you. To find a colleague of mine that had just been shot to death i know a little bit about what its like. You are one strong woman. I want you to know that. I want you to hold your head high. What you did, most people could not. And i am just so proud of you. So i want to say on behalf of all of us, thank you. I know you are a native of illinois. Thank you for telling your story. I am sorry that you have to tell it but these gun tragedies are real human beings die in front of us and we need to do more to stop it. There are two tragedies here, the tragedy of las vegas and texas. In two different circumstances in one semantics is never should have had a firearm, the system failed the system is not perfect, nor is it defined to be even close to perfect. There are loopholes in the system and ways to avoid a background check. I know that, 40 of those used for murder in the city of chicago come from joining jurisdictions and gun shows where there is no background check so the only way to fix it is to apply it to every firearm sale otherwise youre going to say tsa just checked every other airline passenger. We would never see that when it comes to the sale of gun as we see that in america. The other thing is the nature of the weapons involved. Assuming the Second Amendment constitutional right to bear firearms, does anyone imagine, and im sure everyone realizes what im saying is an exaggeration, the Founding Fathers thought that gave an american citizen the right to own a firearm discharged 480 rounds in that church in texas and 1100 pounds in las vegas. How does that fit into the notion of selfdefense of the use of firearms for sports or hunting . It doesnt. And future generations may take a look at this hearing and say they were Walking Around the obvious. There are weapons that have only one purpose, mass killings. Thats what its about. If you need that kind of weapon to shoot a deer you ought to stick to fish. That is a fact. We seem to have agreed. Nobody argues with the notion of banning automatic weapons no one said thats unconstitutional at least i dont think so. But then we have a big debate here. In terms of whether or not you could have repetitive use of a firearm, i dont get that argument and i want to use something else, today it is bump stocks and tomorrow it will be something else, tomorrow it will be something else. I was on the assault weapons bill and how long ago was that . 1993. That was the right thing to do and the firearms industry invented their way around your bill knowing that their way around the bump stocks so they can find another way for people to discharge hundreds if not thousands of rounds killing innocent people. Weve got to come to grips with the reality as th the chief said when 91 of the American People say to us for goodness sakes be sensible, use common sense when it comes to background checks and firearms come even they are saying that to us we cant hear it in congress. We are not paying close attention to. And do something about it. As a measure before the house of representatives outcomes for kerry, every state sets its standard. There are people at the National Rifle association and others argue we can do away with it. If you are a concealed carry allowed to carry concealed weapon in one state you can carry it into another with impunity. What do you think of the proposal . I think it is misguided and dangerous for the community and for my Police Officers. They talked about the two gentlemen that intervened in this casthecase and i will tellt they did help in that situation but there are many more, hundreds of times more situations where someone with a gun insert themselves into a situation that he a firearm will solve the problem and as a cop for 40 years i know this from firsthand experience that is only a rare occasion when the wy use of a gun is lawful, appropriate and necessary. If you need to thank you chairman grassley, Ranking Member feinstein. I want to thank the panel of witnesses for their testimony and particularly had there for your testimony and the insight you give all of us and everybody whos watching about the experience of being a victim of gun violence and around those were struggling to survive an incident like this. As you may know im from wilmington delaware and we had a great deal of gun violence in our little city the last few years and i met with families and victims and none of the incidents as massive or tragic. Or is it best if i just thank you for your testimony today and move on . Everybody who was there had to d be that they had to do andt any point you expect it to turn around and see them running around with machine guns and listening to everybodys head again, automatic weapons are not allowed, so why is a piece of equipment that returns a semi automatic into an automatic allowed . Because now it is an automatic weapon it doesnt matter if it is a oneonone or somebody shooting from the second floor into the crowd of 22,000 weve become a member that nobody wants to b be apart of be aparte in it for the rest of our lives and it affects us for the rest of our lives. None of us will ever get over it but if there is anything we can do to stop this from happening next week, next month, next year if we can stop somebody from walking into a festival and church and school, we need to do Everything Possible to make this not happen ever or as often as it is. Thank you for that passionate reminder that the struggle to turn loss and suffering into positive Forward Motion is one of the inspiring common features of everyone whos had displayed an experienced. You may or may not know i was a county executive before becoming a u. S. Senator and was honored to have the opportunity to serve alongside the county and police force othepolice force of about4 officers. I asked a question in the Previous Panel about officer safety and how we are putting atf officers at risk. I asked them to go and try to locate and secure weapons that may have been inappropriately secured. I would be interested in hearing more from you about how if the act passes with other gaps are there that would allow dangerous individuals to acquire firearms and what are the main challenges facing local Law Enforcement when working with federal agencies to prosecute these purchases do you think it would enhance Public Safety is more illegal firearm purchases were prosecuted and do you think it would enhance officer safety if local Law Enforcement was notified when there is a field background check . To the last two questions, yes. I think the biggest gap we have is the gun show loophole. If we can fix it but people are still allowed, if we do not accompany that with universal background checks of every single gun purchase, then there is a huge gap in which we need to do. I think firearm violence is probably one of the most challenging things for cities around the country especially the major urban areas, and anything that we can do and i will tell you that the atf has been phenomenal working with local Law Enforcement and the u. S. Attorneys office from around the country have worked closely with federal prosecutions which are tremendously effective. Often times more than we can do at the state level so i think the relationship there is effective. You asked me several questions and i think i hit all of them. I proceed to testimony in thaandthat it would help officer safety and Health Promoting cooperation between federal and state local Law Enforcement if field background checks produce specification to state and local Law Enforcement and more illegal firearm purchases were prosecuted. There is a big divide between most members of the Major Political parties on whether we should do things that eligible particular devices or styles of weapons but what i hear from gun owners and from Police Officers and civic activists in my home state and my home city is why cant we start by strengthening what we have a. To make sure they dont into the two instances that have been the focus of this hearing today we have one individual that absolutely should have been able to purchase weapons for tragically did and murdered many and another from modified weapons that made it deadly effective in a way that i think should be in legal. Thank you for your service and testimony today even though i am not a member of the majority, ive been asked to ask my questions and at that point we are in a position to adjourn and i want to thank all of you for being here today. Both of the panels have been excellent and have given us both facts and perspectives that are extremely valuable and i particularly want to thank you for the courage and strength to be here today knowing from other families have been before this panel the kind of fortitude it takes not only to do what you did that interview with it as you are doing now so my thanks from all of you on this panel and i want to if i may ask a dimension to the importance of resources and im wondering if you can get some specifics in the amount of money that was necessary for texas to improve its system and also why its important. This is computer software, people, even more specifics . I can get you the specific amounts that it was less than half a Million Dollars over the couple of years that we received. We used the funding to be able to literally hire staff to go out and reviewed records as was mentioned earlier by one of the panelists we went back 20 years to review all the records that should potentially be in the system and make sure they were. We assisted those across the state and actually finding those records and then entering into the system where appropriate so thats one thing using resources to staff and go out and be a task force to come out and sort of worked through those historical records. One of the things is providing ongoing training to make sure individuals who were responsible for these understand exactly what it is they need to be doing whether it be Online Training through training modules or facetoface in making sure the manuals and task forces and things like that are in place so i think from that perspective, that is the one issue and then you mentioned the other side of the coin is the issue of automation. When people are involved in having to do this on an annual basis at produces the risk of someone missing something and if we can use an Automated System that can truly identify these, and put them up on the system by automatically that works better and certainly that takes money to make that happen in many jurisdictions. Weve had some questions about Domestic Violence and the relationship between Domestic Violence and gun violence and i think the statistic ive heard repeated many times is a woman is five times more likely to die if there is a firearm in the home during Domestic Violence. I dont know the basis for that number, but would any of you disagree that gun violence is far more likely or i should say the mystic violence is more likely to be deadly and injurious if there are guns involved . Many of the homicides that occurred in this country are domestic repeated. There have been extensive studies about the red flags folks may have been able to see when you start off with folks just aren arguing or getting in fights to progress into a homicide and what the studies taught us we put together the left have lethality assessment tool. There is a checklist of about a dozen questions and they ask things like as the perso a persr throat and george brent and one of the questions is today on a firearm and the reason that question is in there is because it has been determined under certain circumstances determined to be a red flag. So theres definitely you can connect the dots between some behavior, Domestic Violence and possession of a firearm that would increase the likelihood of there being a homicide at some point in the case. I appreciate your answer and i would agree with your conclusion that is one of the reasons why ive sponsored. Lori jackson was a woman in connecticut who was killed by her estranged husband while he was under a temporary protective order, not permanent, but a temporary one. And women are killed principally, women, by their intimate partners while under temporary protective orders which are issued in the first ten days or two weeks when the level of rages greatest in other words the danger to the woman and they are least protected, so the victims protection act would extend coverage to the victims who were protected by temporary workers and it applies not only permanent orders. Likewise, another loophole in the current law is the 72 hour exception im sure you are familiar with. If a background check isnt complete within 72 hours the purchase can go forward even if the purchaser is ineligible under the current federal law. Dylan in charleston was able to purchase a firearm only because of that loophole. He was ineligible under the current law, so there are loopholes even under the current law and universal background check system that would make enforcement of the current law more effective and more broadly we need universal background checks is my personal belief as well as other measures, commonsense measures that would help prevent gun violence. I want to thank the chairman for his indulgence and again for his holding this hearing which i think shows the ability of the panel to disagree, and we do disagree but still want to explore all the facts that are important in all the perspectives. At the end here i think you and i suppose most of us in congress dont appreciate all the work you have to do to get prepared for this but thank you and we are going to continue to consider this issue very much. Thank you all for your being here. [inaudible conversations]