He wrote a memoir as the New York Times declared he was a great man and the dole book because he didnt reveal too many secrets. But my grandfather had an extraordinary career because he served the country in three wars and he helped make poison gas during world war i and and became president of harvard and because of the wartime experience and a chemist by training and was recruited by roosevelt as a general of World War Two in charge again of all chemical weapons including the bomb and ended up to oversee the Manhattan Project where they built the first atomic bomb and then one of the key architects and then became a key adviser with the Nuclear Weapons policy how to confront the russian threat how to become ambassador to germany germany when they thought the war might to be fought right there on the lines because of soviet aggression and because of the entire wartime experience the only way for democracy to survive to be a strong country was to have a great School System to show that democracy was better than a dictatorship to have sufficiently talented people and government and science to implement in schools across the country you for what he felt was the of leaders of the technically advanced if we were going to be a great nation in the hightech world in the 50s and the 60s so to have the extraordinary impact on american life. And the focus on meritocracy because many people dont realize what a Critical Role he had to shape the future direction of our country in that regard fifth he is often referred to as the father of the american meritocracy with the whole notion that everybody should have access to a college education, it should be determined entirely by merit not by birth or family or geography and that came about through his early work at harvard to apply the military intelligence test and using the s. A. T. As a tool to open colleges everybody to make it a system as fair as possible the s. A. T. Is very controversial now but as many critics with the idea was fairness and openness the traits that my grandfather thought were key to the american democracy of the free and open in society. To strengthen and preserve that quality feeling that was the best way and he saw the s. A. T. As a tool. And that experience that he had the privilege to opportunity. He was from dorchester in those days was a workingclass suburb that was called the commuter suburb because they were moved up there because land was cheap and plentiful so they took us trolley cars into the ruling class very much look down on dorchester as the elder wilderness uncultured the he met growing up around their precious old city and he was a scholarship boy a after going to look full Public Schools that was a partially private he won a scholarship at 16 very much from the wrong side of the tracks now was a school of rich men and you felt negative. And with such a school of richmond that his graduating class of 1914 to come to school with butlers and livein fast apartments with a large stipend and of our residents with a fireplace and swimming pools and laundry services. And then to live in the unheated room houses. He had no heat, no Running Water and did not even have electricity the first few months. He used to day than the gymnasium. It was a much harder life for the of scholarship boy of he never forgot that. That they cannot get into the better fraternities many friends had parttime jobs for the woodwork long hours to pay for books and meals he was luckier his father was making a pretty good income so he provided him with money for books and meals but never forgot that huge divide between haves and the havenots and that formed the core of his educational philosophy. He seems to have a strong sense of self from the very young age. I remember reading that he rejected the idea and wanted instead he neil wood had a good science and Chemistry Program for boys that age. He showed a real aptitude already tinkering with batteries and electricity and the new apparatus talking about doorbells to be introduced with he would go to his neighbors to rejigger the of battery and the electricity to mecca with a mechanism that gave him such a of huge thrill and then he would take things after that. So he knew by the time he was very young that is what he wanted to do with science changing and moving forward it was an exciting field at that time. Also to be quite driven Natalie Harvard at 16 but the stock market hit taken enough exams that he completed harvard in three years. Guest really it was to when and how fancy will injured into his off more credentials. So specialization was called in those days particular a from a scholarship background so he had two older sisters that he was driven to succeed in a provision profession he would have to make his own way to be very ambitious and he wanted to get ahead on to the graduate program and start trading for his profession so started to move very quickly on a very narrow track and those things like english and history. Host it reminds me of the subject of your first book you had a similar experience at yale with attila driven people. If you read the biographies of exceptional then it is often the case they knew very very young may be a coincidence of brilliance and the lock but to be very focused and to prevent individuals driven individuals with politicians with the course set at a very tender age. Host you begin the book with a powerful scenario Christmas Eve, 1945 the grandfather is in the kremlin the Foreign Ministers of the allies and stolid and the foreign minister from russia so tell me why you began to see with that particular time in history . It was an extraordiextraordi nary moment. The war just ended and russia was our ally exploding the most powerful weapon never made. And then to bring the pacific war and then to help us make it. And then later we found out because of the espionage and they were cry disgruntled. And they were held with the spoils of war and geographically the russians were being very difficult but we thought with this weapon we would be in the dominant position of postwar negotiation secretary of state said we were in the catbirds seat that and with those first conferences they ridiculed it. And then to make jokes about it. And the most victorious nation with a huge weapon and the russians refused to take it seriously. If they had not proceeded as anticipated secretary of state burns agreed to a special conference over christmas and those who try to talk to the russian scientist and then to agree to a nuclear control. And then to control the future of all Nuclear Weapons. And almost all of those this was not the secret that we could keep the technology very quickly to proliferate they could not protect that not only the russians but the dictators to conceivably get ahold of this technology. There was a great fear that this was so powerful it could destroy the world in the wrong hands that the terrorists could use said clearly envision by its creators before the war was is a over trying desperately to put in Place International controls sold the weapon could not proliferate having people to stockpile so this meeting in moscow was so crucial because my grandfather and those that went to were desperately hoping they could convince stolen and sold off to control the future of this terrible force. Their optimistic it is still we done but by the time they left moscow that the russians really wanted to participate in these negotiations. That this might be the form of control. The scientists hope that in exchange of the enormous gesture on our part that Nuclear Secrets in exchange for this technology and they could form the International Organization elevator try to do this through the un but as an International Organization, the community of likeminded nations to supervise the laboratories and then in a way that was the idealistic hope that they believe that this time that was achievable. And what other believe could they have . Except hope from the International Control and it could be replicated so they had to strive for International Control that was the only way to avoid the desperately dangerous arms race from developing so with this Christmas Eve summit at the kremlin is ready had their hopes pinned on the meeting. Also the cusp between the World War Two and a poignant time in history. It was to bring around thinking to say there was a chance and by the time my grandfather return from the trip he began to have grave doubts but of course, as we now know for sure years later the of russians exploded there first atomic bomb 1949 and the cold war began in earnest. Along with that desperate arms race were still struggling with. Although he may not have accomplished the short term objective. And then some of those functions they would describe. Guest yes, again my grandfather they were incredibly prescient in a meeting with truman. In the hands of the enemies and that this falls into the hands of enemies and to be terribly vulnerable. And then is devastating beyond belief. And then to struggle mightily and then when that opportunity faded they did feel fearful not to have the power needed to keep the arms race from developing and falling into enemy hands. What they accomplished after world war ii but his mother was a quaker and while a student at harvard he was not enthused about the probe or effort to build in the United States without a substantial conversion with the french and belgian troops. How did that come about . Beloved chemistry and science of revision for the nobel prizewinning scientist in became his father many of the relatives were quakers and averse to more than so much so that when at harvard when the war broke out in entering graduate school a great many of the classmates and friends were caught up in the war it divided the campus become very. With the war and the allies students were drilling in uniform. Many were volunteering and was just horrified is seeing rolled or one as these aggressive old empires and then to battle it out and did nazi that as a reason for america and personally had no desire to get involved. And to lose friends over that. And to admire his isolationist position at that time. But when america finally declared war on germany with the new chemical weapon of the of the rising gas on his way to volunteering and felt they had no choice at that age to declare war on germany a very famous chemist that often said dont go off the shoulder. That we need you to help us with a plan that get to the front. Europe chemist and develop protections and to develop even worse. Is so convinced they did not volunteer and went to work protecting the american version. And that was the weapon of choice. And then to perfect as a formula which immediately went into production. And then they were making 30 tons by the end of the war producing more mustard gas than all of the european nations combined. And then to make this horrifying weapons of mass destruction. And with those terrible misgivings he called it trying to beat the devil at his home game that was horrible work and felt he had no choice and then sent to a secret facility to try to invent an even more deadly gas that he had come up with with another chemist and theyve produced this terrible powerful new poison gas the deadliest ever made in a designated teethirty for but, theyve known as lewisite. They finished production and my grandfather was usually relieved the worst of the weapons would not be used. The way to have his First Experience during world war one that his grandfather began a Public Service role in this matter and didnt have just day chemistry role but those that were hoping to bring about to have the first taste of what it meant with a common endeavor and then leading the of Manhattan Project. Is a life changing experience for these men in the well educated and on track but completely taking them and a different direction throwing them into wartime. And with that Training Ground in both cases you had physicist and scientist brought together making weapons doing testing and research and to be made available left and right with advances in science more tied accelerates the pace of science advances. Win the war is over with the excitement and a sense of what could be achieved working with brilliant men that left a huge impression and the knowledge that technology could rewrite the rules of war and they could change to bring victory at much less loss of life so as the storm clouds gathered and america was completely isolationist with no desire to get it to a european conflict they understood the more that we sat on our hands and did not get involved with those caribbean nations were threading the democracies of europe. They had been at the cutting edge of science. They know that the developments would mean in the battlefield. Then, he returned to harvard. Go back to his initial love of chemistry. History had a different role in mind for him. Could you describe how he went on to great feats in chemistry, on his path to a nobel prize but then was called to serve harvard in a different capacity. Guest he wanted to be an academic scientist. After world war i he courted his girlfriend and married his mentors daughter. Here was a married the bosses daughter and he was from the other side, it was a feat to convince his mentor that he should be allowed to marry this girl who is harvard royalty. He was ambitious because he told her that he wanted to become the greatest organic chemist in america, become president of harvard, and achieve a cabinet level position. So he first saw his future quite clearly. She scribbled those down in her diary she was courting him saying these were a young mans pipe dreams but she was curious to see what he could achieve. He was a hardworking,s, brilliant at attacking chemical problems of significance because he was trained as a physical and organic chemist he couldve made headway very quickly and then his particular triumph wasnt helping determine the structure of chlorophyll. He has so many awards and papers, he did significant work and was seen as on track to win a nobel himself. In 1933, president harvard retired on their seeking a successor. The corporation, the board of harvard came to him and said, who do you recommend . You are this brilliant scientist you should have ideas of what we need to do to bring harvard into the new century. He gave such an exciting, informed brilliant exposition of the problems and challenges ahead and how they should be resolved, he became a candidate. He became a very young 40 old president of harvard, or from the wrong side of the track. The newspapers had a field day with it. His science career he thought was over. As i recall, the book describes harbor having rested on its laurels and maybe to some degree lapsed into mediocrity. His goal is to build a meritocracy among the faculty and students and elevate harvard to what we know to be today. He seemed to have tremendous vision of the future. It was the oldest, most Prominent University in america. They had brilliant professors but many were retired and several had died. They had lost some of their leading lights. It is also becoming a college of rich men sons. He made the argument that for harvard to regain and repay its position as a leading university in america there are all these upstarts that were growing, the university of chicago and hiring great people that to compete from the west harvard needed to needed to hire and recruit the best lines foster an environment where merit was the most highly priced not family background. Many harvard tutors were well born sons that had a private income and tutored it it was a nice living for a cambridge boy. He wanted to put an end to that. And have only firstrate people on the faculty that were on tenuretrack and get rid of the incestuous hires and deadwood. Also as soon as he became president he scandalize university by saying that he didnt just want sons of wealthy families he wanted to open up admissions to boys from outside the Prep School Circuit to Public Schools and schools from the midwest. Boys of different background in geographical locations. This was scandalous. Because harvard was the leading University Others took notice and followed suit. This bold experiment created National Scholarships and hunting across the country to re crew boys of intelligence, it revolutionized the School System and produce the notion we have today. If youre a bright boy of any background you should be able to find your way to a good university. You should get scholarship money and be allowed to rise in the american system. My grandfather was responsible for driving that notion into the american concept of our democracy and how it should work. Would be fair to say he may have led harvard to become the First University of great repute . Very much so. He really was a global thinker. His wartime experience shaped his view. He said that when he became president in 1933 was the same time that hitler rose to power. His whole view of education and the necessity of producing bright boys to fill important jobs, science, and technology wasnt just idealistic, he had a sense that this was a dangerous world. For america to be a strong country we needed to promote the best brains in this country and get them in positions of influence in government if were going to compete with these dangerous nations abroad. From the beginning his whole educational philosophy was to advance the best and brightest. The notion of diversity, a fair access to college, everything we take for granted were shaped by his experience. Host during his presidency he sought to recruit you lawrence from berkeley. Made an offer to become a professor of physics that lawrence became very close to accepting. Think he traveled to boston to her three times. He did decided to stay at berkeley, but he had good taste and it was evident. He hunted for the best people throughout the world. Guest he did. They became very close friends. She hired a obscure russian from princeton. George had come from russia educated in germany and had a thick accent. George became head of the Chemistry Department at harvard and would become a brilliant chemist with significant contribution to building the atomic bomb was later advisor to eisenhower. He had very good taste. Not only did he have a good eye for talent, he became close to a number of leading physicist and chemist. He was constantly trying to recruit talent. He became friendly with many of them. He was in conversation with these other scientist that he was very, very much the same thing then bush became president of the institution which was andrews huge endowment. It was really in conversation with these top scientists that my grandfather became convinced that were going to get dragged into the war again. These men became concerned that we are very behind in the germans and they were going to be way ahead of it was a grave threat to us. They beat came wanting to organize and prepare for. And your grandfather as the storm clouds are building over europe toward world war ii, your grandfather change from his role in his reluctance for the u. S. To be involved to take on a strong advocacy role. Can you describe that and what his key role was in that. Because he had an understanding of science and a greater sense of the threat of science, technology and the weapons of war post to our security, he felt he had to alert the public and congress to the threat it posed roosevelt was running for reelection and i want to alienate voters who didnt want to send their sons off to war so he would not speak of sending any aid to britain. Then the nazis came across europe in one country had fallen to the german guns and run the guns of invading england. My grandfather fough thought thf england fell our democracy was under serious threat. Western civilization itself was in peril. You cannot have european democracies fall to nazi rule. He began making these famous radio addresses as educator and row seen as a wise man this advisor to roosevelt. Roosevelt needed his help and let my grandfather carry the torch and he made once each after another alerting the country to the danger of advanced technology. The danger of letting totalitarianism take over. It was not only a threat to freedom of europe at a threat to freedom at home. He wanted to alarm and scare to realize we are not protected by this ocean that we had to intervene. He became such an influential interventionist that event chilly they undertook a very Important Scientific Mission to england it was significant in the course of the war. How did he become one of roosevelts two key Science Advisors did a bill from the history you just described her was there other aspects with the brothers and others who have this major effort for the country. They had all been in conversation the contents, frank jewett had laboratories they set on many boards together and as it was more and more serious they became more concerned and convinced that we would become involved in afraid that we are far behind. One development would be the catalyst for driving these men into the leadership positions. That was the discovery of two visions in 1939. It was not classified yet so the discovery was heralded over europe. Within weeks replicated by scientists. What they realized was this could theoretically lead to a growing chain reaction. If the obstacles could be overcome it would produce an enormous release of energy and it would be town for pounds Something Like 1 million times greater than any known explosive. This had implications for the war in europe. The refugee scientist who fled their countries and have family concentration camps, family and wartorn countries were alarmed that if the germans got this weapon, that would be it. The germans would be victorious. A hungarian felt like they had to be warned. He appealed to his friend, Albert Einstein who was older but one of the most famous scientist life warning the president that very powerful fission weapon could be built. Einstein signed the draft of a letter that they essentially wrote but einstein signed this famous letter to roosevelt warning him that new powerful bombs could be built and we should start a Research Program to look into it. That was started on led ultimately to the formation of 1940 for the National Defense research council. Roosevelt asking bush and conan to start organizing science Scientific Research for war. It was a classified scientific endeavor. Gives the first steps taken. Later was expanded into the os rd. And it would be starting to Fund Research and scientific experiments for Weapons Development on a larger scale. There are many Manhattan Project laboratories that grew up out of bad it was a huge radar that loomis headed at mit. There is a famous los alamos bomb which should be directed in new mexico. I want to invite to the group. She was one of the codiscoverer sufficient not been given the credit that i think is due when the others received the nobel prize. She have to verify the findings were true. Shes the one that alerted neil and he traveled to america and arrived in america he held a press conference within days of arriving to announce that the adam had been split. She played a key role. Host the organization that i have a role in was a home for many of these discussions. Your grandfather was later a contender for president of the academy. It links these people and then out of chicago. As i understand it tell her from the east coast lawrence from the west and from chicago right . These departments were small. Most universities severely had a physics department. These men although each other they are tried to recruit one another. This is a Small Community of men that were very well aware as they are beginning to organize various Research Teams as they start to start donating their laboratories for research and more were not in the war at this time. Even in 1940 and 1941 the men are convinced that will have to join the war. Working secretly on campuses developing radar and looking into chemical weapons and different kinds of research that could be applicable to wartime technology. Host how did he manage to be the president of harvard, leading scientist fdr, the principal person ever seen the Manhattan Project and still maintain relationships with his family and friends . He was never home. By the time the os are due was formulated he is spending five days a week in washington. He comes back to harvard on weekends and appointed a firstrate provost to rent the university in his absence. He tells a great story, part of wartime savings trying to reduce courses taught the good economic move, so many boys were joining up into the army they said they would let the women in and radcliffe would pay thats an essentially it was a radical decision to make it, read which was the last grandfather wanted. He was so busy reading secret reports that when they handed him this piece of paper to make this change he said my grandfather signed it without looking up and he wasnt entirely sure what he signed. You get a feeling of how busy he was. Hes looking at these classified reports and theres talk of weapons research. Theres all kinds of rules in terms of the draft and try to keep scientists out of the draft so they can get them in the wartime laboratories. He had so many hats he was wearing. But rather sadly he sacrificed the personal life entirely for his wartime responsibilities. As many men in his generation did. Host talk to us about the toles had on his family. This is indicative of what people do when they make sacrifices for the nation. He was not alone. From the beginning to the end his involvement with the Manhattan Project and the secret bomb work was more than five years. There was more than five years whos never home. He was on the train all the time. Train travel was slow. It took days to get there and he would stay week or two on the red visiting oak ridge, hanford, these distant laboratories. He had two teenage boys. Its difficult to imagine being the son of the president of harvard and growing up. I dont think the boys ever felt they measured up. At a crucial time in their life from the time they were 11 or 12 he was gone. On the road and he cannot talk about this. He honored the wartime secrecy where he never mentioned what he was doing or where he had been. He became a grim, authoritarian figure to them. It took a toll on them. In a desire to prove themselves and probably the time they ran off to war at young ages. My uncle was in the navy, an officer Training Program and became a naval officer. Seven submarine that was badly attacked by the japanese. He came back from world war ii having had a complete and nervous breakdown at the end of the last submarine attack. He will never be entirely whole again. My father joined the merchant marine set at 17. Theyre very young boys who grow up to war. They had a difficult childhood with no father. The father they did have was cold and remote. They were scarred for the rest of their lives. Did you see this growing up . Guest yes, i grew up in the 60s. I grew up in a different wartime era. There are protests every weekend, almost no class in harvard square. All the windows spoken by protesters checking rocks. Their antiwar demonstrations everywhere. My grandfather, somebody who had built the bomb and oversaw the production of napalm and they had created at harvards laboratory, he was seen as a war criminal. My father was very angry and rebellious. They revolted against his authoritarian father had become a very left wing, they would tell me as they watch the evening news 70s vietnamese villages been incinerated, said your grandfather made these weapons, he was a mass murderer. I very much grew up understanding that the divided families and there is vastly different views of the role these men played in developing the weapons. My grandfather was a revered figure. He was a celebrity and bet on the cover of a magazine four times. Many people saw him as a hero for having ended the war in the pacific. At the same time in vietnam, many young people saw him as a villain. I looked at this my whole life at a young age. Youre not only an exceptional writer but a conversationalist. Spent a great opportunity to spend time. I regret we need to bring this to a close. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you. Book tv has covered books about the Manhattan Project and Nuclear Weapons including retired general paul tidbits book, Denise Kiernan spoke and leslie groesbeck, racing for the bond. If this is a topic that interests you go to the website, booktv. Org. Type in Manhattan Project book. Therell be a large archive of authors and materials. These programs are available to watch online. Science, and the way to do that was to have the s. A. T. Which he helped invent and produce to what he felt were the kind of leaders that kind of technically advanced people that we would need in positions of power if we were going to be a great nation in the hightech world that he first saw. Approaching in the 50s and the 60s. So he had an extraordinary impact on american life. Watch afterwards sunday night at 9 eastern on cspan2s booktv. All right. Good evening everyone. Welcome to green light bookstore and im an owner hosting matt to present his new book i cant breathe youre in for an complengt evening before i turn thing over to the two of them housekeeping things you have a cell phone or some other kind of device that might make noise now is the moment to silence it. We have books for sale at the register both the new book i cant breathe and older tightses by both authors so matt will be signing afterwards and when you buy the book you get a great